How comfortable would you be making this drive?

January 21, 2016 12:16 PM

I'm thinking of driving from Portland to Las Vegas in August in a 20-year-old car (1996 Nissan Altima) with 183,000 miles on it. Owning a car is still new to me so I'm trying to figure out if I'm being overly cautious. Would you make this drive?

I'm traveling to Las Vegas in August for the big Star Trek convention and after the ticket and hotel room, I'm looking to economize. A plane ticket is between $200-300 and a rental car for the trip would be about $200 plus gas (for various reasons I don't like to be without a car in Vegas.)

I figured that I could drive there instead on two-fill ups and the cost of a motel room for the night on the way and back, so I would be saving about $200.

The car has been well-maintained and made a drive from New York to Oregon in March. I've put about 2000 miles on the car since arriving here in April. I had a little trouble with it the spring but it wasn't anything that serious (idle control might eventually fail). I've taken the car to Seattle and back once, and to the coast and back a few times. Mostly I just drive it around town when needed (about once a week.)

Other complicating factors: the drive from Portland to Vegas is mostly desolate and off interstates. I'm not really worried about starving to death or anything, but if the car breaks down a) that will blow my savings away and b) it would mess my timeline up pretty badly.

So, should I make this drive in this car? Would you make this drive in this car?

posted by Automocar to Travel & Transportation (35 answers total)

Shouldn't be a problem. Run it by a mechanic for a preventative look-over and fluids top-up before you go if you're feeling nervous about the car making the trip.
posted by killdevil at 12:20 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]

Do you have AAA? You may recoup the costs on your hotel room, from its member discounts. Also, what do your tires look like? Recent tune up? What about the transmission?
posted by kellyblah at 12:22 PM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]

but if the car breaks down a) that will blow my savings away and b) it would mess my timeline up pretty badly.

Is this worth $200 to you?


I have a car about as old as yours and took a trip (much shorter than yours but much longer than my car's typical drive) this past summer and took it to a mechanic for a thorough perusal prior to leaving. They gave me a laundry list of potential problems, but I decided that for the distance I was driving, the relative ease with which I could get home without the car, and the loose timeline I was on it was worth the risk. Ended up being ok but honestly I don't think I'd personally go a whole lot farther than a few hours away in this thing.
posted by phunniemee at 12:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm not sure I buy your math, but I might have misunderstood your plane ticket--is that price one way?--and I'm not intimately familiar with your car's highway mileage.

The way I figure it, Portland to Vegas and back is a 2000 mile drive. If you get 30 mpg (which is the highway rating for your car, I'd be shocked if it's still that efficient after almost 200,000 miles--but I defer to your experience) and gas is $2/ gallon, you're looking at $130 of gasoline alone, conservatively. If you push through or sleep in the car (driving 1000 miles might take 14-16 hours) and don't eat anything, you're still only ~$100-150 ahead of a plane ticket.

I'd say fly, unless you really enjoy solo road trips and/or can share the drive with a second attendee.
posted by pullayup at 12:29 PM on January 21, 2016 [23 favorites]

How about checking out cheap rentals?

Me, although I have AAA I wouldn't risk it, not with the age and miles on your car. What happens if the car absolutely dies somewhere on I-5? This happened to my family. Car threw a rod. Then my parents didn't have a car and they had to figure out how to get us all home from Buellton, California. (It was Grayhound and it was AWFUL!)

Also August? Abosofreakinlutely not! Your car might be perfectly okay in Portland, but getting across the desert in 100+ heat. No way.

You have plenty of time to save up for a plane ticket. Looking at fares now won't give you a good idea of what they'll cost much closer to August. Ditto hotel rooms. Keep checking rates. They can't give hotel rooms away in Las Vegas in August.

Don't drive your beater to Las Vegas.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:35 PM on January 21, 2016 [14 favorites]

I drive my well-maintained, high-mileage, hybrid car on long trips all the time. I think that you really need to reexamine your planned gas fill-ups. I don't think that 2 will do the drive you're planning. I'd plan for 7 fill-ups minimum and I have an efficient car that gets high mileage. I'd plan for more if I was going to be running the AC a lot.

I love to drive, but in this case, I'd bargain hunt for flights (set up flight alerts for sales) and also get a super-cheap car rental through Hotwire or similar.
posted by quince at 12:43 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]

In addition to maybe underestimating fuel cost, you aren't considering the cost of depreciation on your car. Even if it makes it, you are shortening its lifespan with such a long roadtrip.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:51 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]

I would suggest that you consider that there are other costs to driving besides gas. 2,000 miles is somewhere around 1-1.5% of the maximum distance of many cars, so you're consuming a good chunk of the car's life for one trip. You're also eating up tires, wearing out belts, aging oil, etc. AAA estimates driving ultimately costs around $0.45 cents per mile, though they're assuming newish cars rather than a beater.

Statistically, the more you drive, the more likely you are to be in an accident, especially with long solo stretches where you might nod off.

That's also a lot of time that you could be doing any number of things besides driving - can you pick up extra hours at work or do something like babysitting on the days that you're not driving to help pay for the flight?

If feels like getting more comfortable being at a convention in LV without a car is a better solution than trying to do the drive. You might also look at bus options - it's still a long drive, but if you work from home and have friends a a halfway point that would take you as a houseguest for a day or two, you might look into that.
posted by Candleman at 12:54 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]

I have a 99 Saturn in reasonably decent condition that's at 158k miles right now, and I'm seriously considering taking it from near-Portland to the LA area sometime this spring, which is about the same distance round trip. I'd get AAA just to be on the safe side, which I'm thinking of doing anyway, but "will my car make it?" is definitely NOT the reason for the indecision. The car's fine... and it gets 35 mpg on all-highway. Occasionally I've have trips where it's run closer to 40 - that floors me.

Thing is, you need to decide for YOUR car. It really depends on the shape it's in. It could be great, or it could be a "beater", but we really don't have enough information to decide that.
posted by stormyteal at 12:57 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, and the trip cost calculator on Gasbuddy is a nice resource for finding places to fill up along the way. (Or use oregongasprices.com - same difference.)
posted by stormyteal at 1:02 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

If something, anything, goes wrong it's likely to cost you a lot more than $200 and you'll then be in the position of spending days driving to not save any money. Were I in that position I'd feel really annoyed at myself.

I'd fly.
posted by Sebmojo at 1:05 PM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'd do it without a second thought. I'd definitely have a mechanic do a quick look at things...make sure coolant is ok, brakes are good, AC works, change the oil, etc.

Nissans get high marks from me. I took two of them to well over 300,000 miles over the years. Enjoy the trip!
posted by Thorzdad at 1:16 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

You know, you should also keep in mind that cheap flights to Vegas are A Thing, and you have time to burn. Set a Hipmunk alert and monitor the prices for a while. If you get into June or July and you haven't seen any sub-$200 tickets you can decide to drive (or not) then.
posted by pullayup at 1:29 PM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]

Another approach: rent the car in Portland (so you can get the cheap week-long rate) and drive it to Las Vegas. You can rent a hybrid from many providers and unlimited mileage is pretty typical.
posted by carmicha at 1:55 PM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]

I've driven and flown to Las Vegas from L.A. countless times. Driving to Vegas is fun but driving home from Vegas is un-fun, and I'm about 1/3 of the distance away as you are. For the amount of money you are -- or might -- be saving, do yourself a favor and fly. Plus you'll probably gain 1/2 day on the back end of your trip. If you look into renting a car check the policy on taking it out of state. You could do it anyway, but you should make an informed risk assessment on that.

Also August? Abosofreakinlutely not! Your car might be perfectly okay in Portland, but getting across the desert in 100+ heat. No way.

Even if the car is mechanically sound enough to make the trip, you might be underestimating your fuel needs:

fueleconomy.gov: Running your car's air conditioning is the main contributor to reduced fuel economy in hot weather. Its effect depends on a number of factors, such as the outside temperature, humidity, and intensity of the sun. Under very hot conditions, AC use can reduce a conventional vehicle's fuel economy by more than 25%.1,2

Driving with your windows down can also reduce fuel economy. Open windows increase aerodynamic drag (wind resistance), making your vehicle use more energy to push through the air. This effect is quite small at low speeds but increases at highway speeds.1,3
posted by Room 641-A at 2:32 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]

So the cost comparison you've got basically comes out equal between the plane ticket and the car driving costs, but the place you save money is not having to get a $200 rental car for your time in Vegas. I will believe you that the math adds up. I do second the idea that there might be a cheaper flight available, but I also question that you can't find a rental for under $200. Kayak pulled up several for $20-25/day, maybe you can reduce that a bit.

I also question if there's a monetary difference to you by spending a whole day driving vs part-days flying (vacation days, work hours).

I confess I'm biased towards flying. But on the other hand, the fact that you can't afford to pay for a major repair isn't entirely relevant, you may as well drive. Your car will break down sometime in the next 10,000 miles, because that's the way old cars are. It may not be major, but it'll happen, and you'll have to get it fixed. To a large extent (excluding the very valid point that August in the desert is likely to be strenuous conditions) not driving this trip doesn't prevent those repairs, it just means that when you suddenly start hearing a funny grinding noise at 3857 miles from now, you'll be in your home state, near a mechanic whose name and phone number you know, with easy access to going home and waiting for it to get fixed, instead of hitting that point someplace in California and having to decide whether to stop and who to call and what to do about it. My point is, the only effect on your big-picture budget is the additional cost of having to replace a brake line in California vs your local guy, because your brake line was going to need replacement anyway.
posted by aimedwander at 2:50 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]

I would not try to do this in August. Maybe in a month with temps that are less extreme but August in Nevada is intensely hot and that might just be the thing that does your poor, faithful car in. Not worth it for $200 IMO.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:08 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

One other factor - on the trip to LV, if you break down in area where they don't have parts on hand to fix the car (which is somewhat likely with an older import), it could be a day or two until they can get what they need, which could cause you to miss the convention, so flying or renting a more reliable car might be a good hedge against that.
posted by Candleman at 3:10 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've done drives like that (Reno to Vegas, Reno to Phoenix, Phoenix to L.A., Reno to Phoenix to L.A. to Vegas to Phoenix, Phoenix to L.A. to Vegas to Salt Lake City...) during the summer, in a 20-year-old Ford LTD Country Squire station wagon and/or a ten-year-old Jeep Grand Wagoneer, often with trailers, when I was a teenager. And stupid. Nothing ever happened to me, but A) I was never on a hard schedule, and B) I am fairly convinced that in at least seven out of the ten nearest alternate universes, I am now a skull by the side of the road somewhere near Tonopah.

Take the flight.
posted by Etrigan at 4:15 PM on January 21, 2016 [10 favorites]

I would totally make this drive, and have made a fair number of drives like it, in vehicles older and less well-maintained than the one you describe* - but I'd do it in hope that it would be an awesome road trip rather than expectation that it would save a significant amount of money. Four full driving days is a lot of time to invest, and $200 isn't leaving you much room for an encounter with the unexpected. But I would totally do it if I could afford the time, precisely because so much of the trip would be desolate and isolated and off the interstate, gorgeous and wild and probably unlike anywhere else you've ever been, and what is life for if not this?

p.s. I have a higher-than-average degree of tolerance for the kind of adventure that happens when your car breaks down in the middle of the desert; my best stories come from this kind of trip. But seriously, you MUST bring enough food and water and warm clothing to sustain you for a night alone, because adventures do happen and it's much better when you're around to tell the story afterward.
posted by Mars Saxman at 4:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

NOOOOOooooooooooo.

August? Vegas? No. That's a recipe for disaster because your car will get really hot and parts will fail. Like the radiator or water pump and/or other things that are fine for 25 minutes to the grocery, but will spell disaster on a multiple hour trip.

No. Yes, rent or fly.
posted by jbenben at 4:53 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

do you have some idea of what it would cost if it went bad? and do you have some idea of what the likelihood of it going bad is? if so, compare the expected loss to $200.

for example, if there's a 5% chance that it dies completely, and you would need to get a replacement car for $10,000 then 5% of $10,000 is $500. that's more than $200 so the expected loss is too high.

but maybe you're sure it won't fail completely, but there's a 20% chance that you will need to get something repaired for $500. in that case 20% of $500 is $100 and so you're still saving money.

not sure if that's clear. the idea is that you can estimate how much it will cost "on average" by multiplying the cost of what will go wrong by the likelihood it goes wrong. if that cost is more than you save then it's not worth it.

(obviously, these are guesstimates, but a few guesses can give you a feel for how good an idea it is).
posted by andrewcooke at 5:05 PM on January 21, 2016

I would do that in my 200,000 mile Toyota, but I would get the air conditioner recharged and the brake pads replaced. You know what your car might need. Don't skimp. Don't do it with an unreliable rust bucket. But your car went from NY to OR, and does not have significantly more miles on now than it did then. So....

Also, I get 45 mpg and would need 4-5 tanks of gas for that trip.
posted by SLC Mom at 5:09 PM on January 21, 2016

Ruthless Bunny:

"Also August? Abosofreakinlutely not! Your car might be perfectly okay in Portland, but getting across the desert in 100+ heat. No way."

This a million times. I drove from LA to Las Vegas and back in June of 2014. Temperatures of around 100 degrees would have felt like a fresh breeze. It was closer to 120 degrees. Again, this was in June, not August. You want to be absolutely sure your car can handle the additional stress from the heat. It's no joke.

Coming from Portland Google maps indicates that you'd be coming down the 95 through Nevada. I think there's less traffic by orders of magnitude compared to, say, the 15 coming from LA, which gets clogged all the time. So there's the additional risk of breaking down in the desert with no help arriving for hours.

If you decide to do this I'd make sure to load up a good amount of drinking water, not just a couple of bottles. Also there's few towns along the 95 so you'll need to make sure to fill your tank at every opportunity. Old cars can eat up oil quickly so you'd want to bring a case of that. You'll want to make sure your tires are in good shape because if the air is 120 degrees you can imagine what the road surface is like. Don't underestimate the desert. Bring a hat. With a brim. Then, at night, it can get really cold. I always have a pack of those cheap foil emergency blankets in my car.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:10 PM on January 21, 2016

Response by poster: Thanks everyone, for convincing this lifelong East Coaster not to fuck with the desert in August!
posted by Automocar at 5:16 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]

I came back to say that coming from L.A. usually meant leaving pre-dawn or during the night to avoid driving during the hottest hours* and if you drive I would try to stick to that as closely as you can. And don't just bring extra drinking water, bring water for the radiator, which I think would be the likeliest problem you can anticipate.

*Coming home is whenever your body can, by check-out time.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:19 PM on January 21, 2016

Also you will probably have to pay to park in LV.
posted by k8t at 5:31 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

To be honest if you'd framed this as 'shall I have an adventure' you'd probably be getting an equally cautious but much more positive response.

But it's got 'misguided economy' written all over it, even discounting that your time is worth something to you.
posted by Sebmojo at 5:52 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]

IRS mileage reimbursement rate is $.54 a mile this year (down from $.575 last year because gas is cheaper). The IRS is not known for a giddily generous appraisal of expenses to give to business owners to reduce their taxes with. I've actually added up itemized costs of operating my car before and it's always come close to those annual rates.

It's true that some costs, like insurance, do not spike because of isolated long trips, but no matter how you slice it (regardless of the condition of your car, even), maintenance, gas, and depreciation make this false economy compared to flying. Only you can decide if it's worth it for the experience - I kind of like a long road trip myself (and kind of hate airports) - but you will not save money.
posted by randomkeystrike at 9:20 PM on January 21, 2016

I've driven through Nevada (Phoenix to Carson City and back again) a few times in the summer and I've also made two cross country trips in a 2000 Toyota Avalon, during the summer. (And other cross country trips in rental cars). I think it's sound to consider that your car might break down and to really weigh the risks, but... Nevada is not as desolate as people think, or maybe I'm just crazy because I felt like there were plenty of towns and people around even in the hot, hot summer (I've driven a few different routes but on mobile now and too lazy to check the map to remember which.) Driving past LV, I was surprised at how it wasn't at all what people make it out to be. I think it's more romantic for people to imagine it's in the middle of nowhere but...it's not.

Then again, I got used to Phoenix, the day I moved there it was 118 and it feels like it stayed that way for lost of the years I lived there. I would make your drive because rental cars really add up (no one is adding in insurance, which I usually decline but you might not be comfortable doing so, so it adds $15-30 a day). Having ridden in many shitty cars with and without AC in Phoenix, it's not as bad as you'd think. Again, maybe I'm crazy, but I find that people love to exaggerate the heat. It's not 90 degree Portland weather which makes you want to just give up on life. Yes, it's deadly if you're outside unprotected, but in a car even with somewhat shitty A/C is really okay, bring water and know what to do in case your car overheats (which I don't think it will, mine was prone to it when driving in mountains but made the NV to AZ trips fine). Also, I got 35+ MPG on these trips without trying at all. In contrast, at best my Avalon averaged 23 MPG highway driving, not city, around Phoenix. You really just don't stop and go as much on long trips and gas is really cheap in Nevada so that's in your favor.

If you make the drive because you can't make the airfare and rental car math work, I would caution that heat is really hard on car batteries. That is the thing I would be most worried about, but they're not super expensive and if you have AAA, they can come confirm the health of your current battery and replace it if it's not in top-top condition.

If you do decide to go, I highly recommend checking the The Road Food guide for good places to eat! That's always been my favorite part of long drives. (And on that note, don't forget to add food to the cost of driving, that adds up too. Could make the flying route as cheap.)
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 9:30 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

And you drive a 20 year old car. How much is it even worth and how long do you plan on driving it? Depending on your answer, I would say depreciation doesn't matter. I made money when I traded in my car even after putting all those cross country miles on it. I sold it before I was the one dealing with the wear and tear. The dealer wanted me to buy a new one and made money on me that way. If you were driving a 1-3 year old car and hoping to trade it in then yes, those miles will hurt. Obviously your car is older than mine and I have no idea what condition it's in, but something to consider. This is just my experience with driving a high mileage older vehicle on long trips.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 9:39 PM on January 21, 2016

What? No. Flying will end up being far cheaper.
posted by dmd at 6:14 AM on January 22, 2016

I keep cars until they approach 200,000 miles. I would not drive a car with as many miles as your car more than towing distance from home, much less Portland to Vegas and back.

Serious things start to break unpredictably on high mileage cars. A thorough inspection by a competent mechanic can't find everything. E.g., the mechanic can say, replace the belts. The mechanic can't say the fuel pump will die in 500 miles.

Of course, any fixes the mechanic says are needed erase the money you are trying to save.

Obviously, any breakdown, especially in a remote place, will gobble money.

Being stranded in the Nevada desert in August is potentially life threatening. No joke.

Find a better way.
posted by justcorbly at 6:29 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

My boyfriend and I tried to drive from Denver to the Grand Canyon years ago (in August) in his 20-year-old Honda Accord. "Let's see if it'll make it!" was our reasoning. It overheated like crazy on the way back but we managed to get within 100 miles of home, so the AAA tow was free, but I think he dropped $600 on a new starter after we got back. Lesson learned: we rent cars now for any big drive. If you have AAA and join Hertz's Gold Rewards program, you can frequently get rental cars for about $20 a day, taxes included. Or just fly.
posted by jabes at 9:26 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

If you rent a car to do the trip you should still carry a good deal of water with you, things occasionally happen to rental cars too. Just don't take a trip through the Nevada desert in August in any sort of vehicle, without carrying plenty of water!
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:11 PM on January 22, 2016