Please don't sit with us
August 22, 2015 8:26 AM Subscribe
Is there a polite way to say, "Actually, we were hoping it would just be [SO and I] sitting together?"
You have purchased tickets to a public lecture. In the lobby before the show, by complete chance, you and your SO run into an acquaintance of your SO and chat for a bit. When you go in to sit down (in the one wheelchair bay in the venue), the acquaintance (not a wheelchair user) does not ask, but assumes, they will be sitting with you and your SO. (Apart from the wheelchair bay you are occupying, seating is unreserved.) There is chatting time before the show, and the pitch/tone of the acquaintance's voice is honest-to-god a migraine trigger for you. (You try blocking it out with headphones, but even then it's getting to you.) Further more the acquaintance is very negative and their body language triggers your fight or flight reflex and adrenaline levels through the roof. There are plenty of other empty seats in the venue, many of them closer to the stage.
Is there a polite way to say, "Actually, we were hoping it would just be [SO and I] sitting together?"
if so, how do you finesse/say it?
Bonus question: is the acquaintance rude for inviting themselves to sit with you without asking either of you first?
You have purchased tickets to a public lecture. In the lobby before the show, by complete chance, you and your SO run into an acquaintance of your SO and chat for a bit. When you go in to sit down (in the one wheelchair bay in the venue), the acquaintance (not a wheelchair user) does not ask, but assumes, they will be sitting with you and your SO. (Apart from the wheelchair bay you are occupying, seating is unreserved.) There is chatting time before the show, and the pitch/tone of the acquaintance's voice is honest-to-god a migraine trigger for you. (You try blocking it out with headphones, but even then it's getting to you.) Further more the acquaintance is very negative and their body language triggers your fight or flight reflex and adrenaline levels through the roof. There are plenty of other empty seats in the venue, many of them closer to the stage.
Is there a polite way to say, "Actually, we were hoping it would just be [SO and I] sitting together?"
if so, how do you finesse/say it?
Bonus question: is the acquaintance rude for inviting themselves to sit with you without asking either of you first?
At a public event with open seating, I think you're SOL. The only thing you might try is, feel free to sit closer if you want, you don't need to keep us company over here. But otherwise, eh. At least the lecture means they can't talk!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:31 AM on August 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:31 AM on August 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Maybe like, "Hey, it's our date night, if you don't mind, can it just be the two of us?" All apologetically?
posted by leesh at 8:32 AM on August 22, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by leesh at 8:32 AM on August 22, 2015 [21 favorites]
You gotta head that off before you get to seats. The magic phrase is "date night." As in, "Well, it was really great catching up with you, but SO and I are here on our date night, so we're gonna go find our seats!"
posted by deludingmyself at 8:32 AM on August 22, 2015 [82 favorites]
posted by deludingmyself at 8:32 AM on August 22, 2015 [82 favorites]
I do think it is possible to say, I have sensitive hearing that triggers my migraines, would you mind lowering your voice?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:33 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:33 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Great to see you! We're gonna go find our seats. Take care!"
"Oh but we should sit together"
Whoever this is the acquaintance of: "Bro, it's date night -- we'll catch you another time!" In a suggestive, winky, I am totes gonna be making out with my bae and you will be in the way voice.
posted by Hermione Granger at 8:36 AM on August 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
"Oh but we should sit together"
Whoever this is the acquaintance of: "Bro, it's date night -- we'll catch you another time!" In a suggestive, winky, I am totes gonna be making out with my bae and you will be in the way voice.
posted by Hermione Granger at 8:36 AM on August 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: deludingmyself: we said goodbye to the acquaintance in the lobby, went and sat down, and then acquaintance came in a few minutes later and assumed they were sitting with us!
I actually looked at them and then deliberately used my powerchair to block the entrance to the seats we were in and they said "Oh, don't worry, I'll walk the long way round from the other side of the theatre to join you!" and then did that.
posted by Hot buttered sockpuppets at 8:36 AM on August 22, 2015
I actually looked at them and then deliberately used my powerchair to block the entrance to the seats we were in and they said "Oh, don't worry, I'll walk the long way round from the other side of the theatre to join you!" and then did that.
posted by Hot buttered sockpuppets at 8:36 AM on August 22, 2015
The truth is that, since you know this person, sitting next to them during the event will be a tiny bit distracting for you. This could be stated in a positive way.
posted by amtho at 8:44 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 8:44 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Politely, you don't join another party in a public place without asking them first, so they were rude first. You can add that to the list of things you hate about this person.
It's very difficult to politely tell a person that you don't like them and find that they are negative and annoying and also trigger your migraines, because politeness really isn't that well designed to accommodate relationships with people you really don't like and don't even want to be around. It usually relies on other people recognizing that they are not invited and not inviting themselves to things.
The date night thing that others have suggested is probably your best approach to "it's not you, it's me, but please go away".
On the other hand, once the lecture starts, you'd be well within the bounds of politeness to respond with a cold silence if they try to talk to you, since it's a lecture. And after the lecture ends, you can dash off with a "sorry, we'd love to chat, but we have another commitment right now" even if your other commitment is to go home and catch up on whatever you tivoed while you were at the lecture.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:00 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's very difficult to politely tell a person that you don't like them and find that they are negative and annoying and also trigger your migraines, because politeness really isn't that well designed to accommodate relationships with people you really don't like and don't even want to be around. It usually relies on other people recognizing that they are not invited and not inviting themselves to things.
The date night thing that others have suggested is probably your best approach to "it's not you, it's me, but please go away".
On the other hand, once the lecture starts, you'd be well within the bounds of politeness to respond with a cold silence if they try to talk to you, since it's a lecture. And after the lecture ends, you can dash off with a "sorry, we'd love to chat, but we have another commitment right now" even if your other commitment is to go home and catch up on whatever you tivoed while you were at the lecture.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:00 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Since this is your SO's acquaintance, isn't it on SO to decide/act? In the situation where we've been met by my acquaintance, I've either jettisoned them quickly or looked to my SO to indicate how she feels about their presence
posted by Hash at 9:05 AM on August 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Hash at 9:05 AM on August 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
Sorry, but sitting next to people who don't thrill you is a risk of going out into to world. I say this as someone who has my share of pet peeves.
If you want to completely control your external environment, the best way to do that is stay home.
posted by girl flaneur at 9:06 AM on August 22, 2015 [38 favorites]
If you want to completely control your external environment, the best way to do that is stay home.
posted by girl flaneur at 9:06 AM on August 22, 2015 [38 favorites]
Honestly, there are a good number of people in the world who would feel hurt/slighted if the acquaintance didn't sit next to them. You have to make your wishes clear, perhaps with the magic phrase "date night," as suggested above.
posted by Betelgeuse at 9:20 AM on August 22, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Betelgeuse at 9:20 AM on August 22, 2015 [13 favorites]
Use the date night excuse, forcefully if you must. Also get your husband's perspective, since it's his friend.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:35 AM on August 22, 2015
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:35 AM on August 22, 2015
Is there a polite way to say, "Actually, we were hoping it would just be [SO and I] sitting together?"
if so, how do you finesse/say it?
No, but you say, "It was nice to see you," then you move.
posted by kinetic at 9:36 AM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
if so, how do you finesse/say it?
No, but you say, "It was nice to see you," then you move.
posted by kinetic at 9:36 AM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Politeness really isn't that well designed to accommodate relationships with people you really don't like and don't even want to be around.
Actually, this is precisely the situation for which politeness and civility are designed.
posted by girl flaneur at 9:49 AM on August 22, 2015 [16 favorites]
Actually, this is precisely the situation for which politeness and civility are designed.
posted by girl flaneur at 9:49 AM on August 22, 2015 [16 favorites]
I think it's worth drawing attention to the fact that OP can't move; there's no other wheelchair seating.
I kind of suspect that by this person being your SO's friend and then talking before going to sit down is suggesting to this person that they're closer friends with the two of you than they really are. It's rude to sit with an acquaintance uninvited, but I wouldn't presume to need an invitation if I ran into my BFF--it's a spectrum, you know? If you really dislike being around this person so much, your SO needs to realize that times they are with you are not the times to socialize with this person, and make their excuses after minimal pleasantries. Hey, how're you, that's great, nice to see you, here on a date with my partner, we'll catch up sometime, then split.
But sometimes if someone else is rude there's not really a way to deal with that without making a scene, and that's precisely why it's rude.
posted by Sequence at 9:49 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
I kind of suspect that by this person being your SO's friend and then talking before going to sit down is suggesting to this person that they're closer friends with the two of you than they really are. It's rude to sit with an acquaintance uninvited, but I wouldn't presume to need an invitation if I ran into my BFF--it's a spectrum, you know? If you really dislike being around this person so much, your SO needs to realize that times they are with you are not the times to socialize with this person, and make their excuses after minimal pleasantries. Hey, how're you, that's great, nice to see you, here on a date with my partner, we'll catch up sometime, then split.
But sometimes if someone else is rude there's not really a way to deal with that without making a scene, and that's precisely why it's rude.
posted by Sequence at 9:49 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
It is straightforward: "Sorry, it's lovely to see you as always, but we are having a special date night out together. We don't often get a chance to spend such time together, so I am going to have to be slightly rude here - and I do apologise because it is truly lovely to see you - but would you mind terribly much if my SO and I just decided to hang out on our own? Thank you so much - we really should get together sometime again..."
(I may have lived in Britain for too long)
posted by kariebookish at 9:54 AM on August 22, 2015 [24 favorites]
(I may have lived in Britain for too long)
posted by kariebookish at 9:54 AM on August 22, 2015 [24 favorites]
The acquaintance is presumptuous, and it is generally rude to be presumptuous. However, this was a public event with unreserved seating. I would think it unreasonable if you attempted to bar any member of the public from sitting next to you, so I don't see why an acquaintance has less seating rights than a member of the general public. If you go to an event with any sort of audience, you have to expect that someone is going to be sitting next to you. Yes, I understand it was a wheelchair bay but the adjoining empty seats aren't your turf. Maybe if this was the back row of a dark movie theatre and you were intending to make out I'd understand but for a public lecture, come on.
Also, it was a lecture, so I imagine that neither you nor the acquaintance were speaking, so it's not as if you had to endure very much - only a person's physical presence. Tell your paramour that you do not care for this acquaintance and then you can present a united front in the future.
posted by Tanizaki at 10:20 AM on August 22, 2015 [14 favorites]
Also, it was a lecture, so I imagine that neither you nor the acquaintance were speaking, so it's not as if you had to endure very much - only a person's physical presence. Tell your paramour that you do not care for this acquaintance and then you can present a united front in the future.
posted by Tanizaki at 10:20 AM on August 22, 2015 [14 favorites]
Unless I've misread, it appears that even if you managed to get the hint across to this person that you didn't want them to sit next to the two of you, you could end up in the situation where a complete stranger then chose to sit there, or in front of you or whatever. Would you use the same "we're trying to have a date night" routine with a stranger who tried to sit by you in an unreserved seating situation? How do you think your partner's acquaintance would feel if they were asked to leave due to the date night excuse, and then saw complete strangers sitting around you? There's rude, and then there's hurtful. While rude is sometimes done due to cluelessness, hurtful is more deliberate and I'd classify inviting yourself to sit with a couple as rude, and running someone off in this type of situation as hurtful. Of course, you could argue that you're not responsible for this person's reactions or feelings....just like he's not responsible for the fact that his mere presence gives you migraines and triggers fight or flight reactions.
posted by toodles at 10:25 AM on August 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by toodles at 10:25 AM on August 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
If they don't pick it up when you say, "Well, it was great seeing you. We're going to go take our seat now," then I'm not sure what else you can do. You could just not talk to them, when they see you, keep walking like you don't know them, etc. -- send a strong message you aren't interested in seeing them next time. I've done that when I've met acquaintances who seemed way too chummy and were kind of hitting on me -- the next time I saw them, I didn't talk to them and pretended like they were a stranger, just to clear up any possible confusion about me being interested. I felt bitchy, but it worked.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:42 AM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:42 AM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think that person was in an awkward situation too that I kind of identify with to some extent (hopefully not the annoying and triggering part!) But I like to go places by myself from time to time, and then I run into a person or people I know. So then what? The obviously polite thing is for someone to say hey, I'm sitting over there would you like to join me? How do you excuse yourself such that you all enter a place without assigned seating, but then split up and choose different seats?
What I'm saying is that it's entirely possible that the "date night" excuse might in fact have made the person sigh a "thank God" to himself because he didn't really want to sit with you either, but didn't have a non-obviously-ridiculous reason not to.
posted by ctmf at 10:48 AM on August 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
What I'm saying is that it's entirely possible that the "date night" excuse might in fact have made the person sigh a "thank God" to himself because he didn't really want to sit with you either, but didn't have a non-obviously-ridiculous reason not to.
posted by ctmf at 10:48 AM on August 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Tanizaki, toodles: between when the ushers seated us inside the theatre, and when the lecture actually began, we had to put up with 20 minutes plus of [acquaintance] talking in their nails-on-a-chalkboard voice. That's not counting the previous chat in the lobby.
Also, the row of seating we were in was at the very back of the theatre, and almost completely empty - most of the people were in the more desirable rows closer to the stage. So it's unlikely strangers would have sat next to us.
But if strangers had sat next to us, they probably wouldn't have expected to talk to us before the show/at interval.
posted by Hot buttered sockpuppets at 10:51 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, the row of seating we were in was at the very back of the theatre, and almost completely empty - most of the people were in the more desirable rows closer to the stage. So it's unlikely strangers would have sat next to us.
But if strangers had sat next to us, they probably wouldn't have expected to talk to us before the show/at interval.
posted by Hot buttered sockpuppets at 10:51 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
This person sounds incredibly needy and kind of pushy. Perhaps they are really clueless and just do not read social cues well. Sometimes, people like that need and even occassionally appreciate amore blunt/direct approach.
You have been good about not indicating gender or sexual orientation. But I am kind of wondering if this person maybe is crushing on your SO and if the whole point was to bitchily impose and insert themselves between you and SO. In which case, no, there is no nice way to let them know thier horrible behavior is beyond the pale and they are unwelcome. The most diplomatic way to frame it is first person -- "We were wanting to be alone" -- but some people are so pushy that it becomes impossible to effectively deal with the situation without directly commenting in some way on the fact that their behavior is unacceptable. Having manners does not mean being a doormat.
posted by Michele in California at 11:27 AM on August 22, 2015
You have been good about not indicating gender or sexual orientation. But I am kind of wondering if this person maybe is crushing on your SO and if the whole point was to bitchily impose and insert themselves between you and SO. In which case, no, there is no nice way to let them know thier horrible behavior is beyond the pale and they are unwelcome. The most diplomatic way to frame it is first person -- "We were wanting to be alone" -- but some people are so pushy that it becomes impossible to effectively deal with the situation without directly commenting in some way on the fact that their behavior is unacceptable. Having manners does not mean being a doormat.
posted by Michele in California at 11:27 AM on August 22, 2015
[...] we had to put up with 20 minutes plus of [acquaintance] talking in their nails-on-a-chalkboard voice. That's not counting the previous chat in the lobby.
I'm in the camp of can't ask them to move. If a friend of my companion did that, I would sort of expect said companion to take the lead in sparing us the unadulterated annoying blather by starting a conversation themselves. If the person was my friend or acquaintance, I would do it myself. You may have been looking forward to 20 minutes of companionable silence; you've lost that, but you can still choose what type of conversation you want to have.
It may be that the person thought it was incumbent on them to sit with you, that it would look weird if they didn't, and/or that they are socially awkward. If any of those seem to be true, I would be particularly careful not to act like I'm cutting the person by having a conversation that excludes them.
posted by BibiRose at 12:14 PM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm in the camp of can't ask them to move. If a friend of my companion did that, I would sort of expect said companion to take the lead in sparing us the unadulterated annoying blather by starting a conversation themselves. If the person was my friend or acquaintance, I would do it myself. You may have been looking forward to 20 minutes of companionable silence; you've lost that, but you can still choose what type of conversation you want to have.
It may be that the person thought it was incumbent on them to sit with you, that it would look weird if they didn't, and/or that they are socially awkward. If any of those seem to be true, I would be particularly careful not to act like I'm cutting the person by having a conversation that excludes them.
posted by BibiRose at 12:14 PM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
I will add that you were trapped there because of the wheelchair. People need to meet a higher bar of asking if it is okay with you if they join you because you cannot move to avoid them. Don't assume malice where stupidity is a perfectly fine explanation, expect to have to do some educating, but start expecting people to meet that higher standard or exclude them from your social circle. You should not have to "politely" accept being trapped this way just because you literally are unable to walk away. Nicely point out that under other circumstsnces, you would happily move but that just isn't possible. If they really just will not respect your boundaries after having it clearly spelled out, consider letting them know you will be happy to talk to security/police/whatever.
This is shitty, shitty behavior. I am aghast that so many of the replies seem to not be taking your handicapped status into consideration. No, you should not just put up with this because non-wheelchair bound people would not say "Please go sit elsewhere. Thank you." Non-wheelchair bound people could get up and move and some of them would. That was not an option for you. Please realize savvy decent people will think to ask if you are okay with them joining you, clueless decent people will be apologetic when it is pointed out and the only reason to handle the rest of the heathens as diplomatically as possible is because it will be less trouble for you, not because they deserve it.
posted by Michele in California at 12:17 PM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is shitty, shitty behavior. I am aghast that so many of the replies seem to not be taking your handicapped status into consideration. No, you should not just put up with this because non-wheelchair bound people would not say "Please go sit elsewhere. Thank you." Non-wheelchair bound people could get up and move and some of them would. That was not an option for you. Please realize savvy decent people will think to ask if you are okay with them joining you, clueless decent people will be apologetic when it is pointed out and the only reason to handle the rest of the heathens as diplomatically as possible is because it will be less trouble for you, not because they deserve it.
posted by Michele in California at 12:17 PM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: To give an indication of just how stressful I found this person:
I ended up getting so stressed out by [acquaintance] that I went to the other side of the theatre (where there was no wheelchair bay) just to get away from them, got reprimanded by the head of theatre staff for being a "fire hazard in case of evacuation" and then I told the head-of-theatre-staff that [acquaintance] was stressing me out, and the head-of-theatre-staff asked [acquaintance] to move.
and at interval, my SO was like "this is a fascinating lecture for both of us, but should we miss the second half so that [acquaintance] doesn't keep stressing you out?"
But this was obviously not ideal, and I'd like to handle it better if it ever happens again.
posted by Hot buttered sockpuppets at 12:26 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I ended up getting so stressed out by [acquaintance] that I went to the other side of the theatre (where there was no wheelchair bay) just to get away from them, got reprimanded by the head of theatre staff for being a "fire hazard in case of evacuation" and then I told the head-of-theatre-staff that [acquaintance] was stressing me out, and the head-of-theatre-staff asked [acquaintance] to move.
and at interval, my SO was like "this is a fascinating lecture for both of us, but should we miss the second half so that [acquaintance] doesn't keep stressing you out?"
But this was obviously not ideal, and I'd like to handle it better if it ever happens again.
posted by Hot buttered sockpuppets at 12:26 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
when you're dealing with people who miss social cues, there aren't really any good polite ways to get them to notice the cues. sounds like you did the right stuff and this happened anyway. your only options are to forcefully tell them you don't want to sit with them (which will likely damage their friendship with your partner and make other running into each other situations awkward) or to just get through it the best you can.
posted by nadawi at 12:49 PM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 12:49 PM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
and then I told the head-of-theatre-staff that [acquaintance] was stressing me out, and the head-of-theatre-staff asked [acquaintance] to move.
also, this is pretty crappy. if they were a stranger or someone that you were very publicly not friends with, this might be appropriate, but to an acquaintance it's beyond passive aggressive. if letting them know that they're bugging you is important to you, you or your partner need to do the telling.
posted by nadawi at 12:51 PM on August 22, 2015 [43 favorites]
also, this is pretty crappy. if they were a stranger or someone that you were very publicly not friends with, this might be appropriate, but to an acquaintance it's beyond passive aggressive. if letting them know that they're bugging you is important to you, you or your partner need to do the telling.
posted by nadawi at 12:51 PM on August 22, 2015 [43 favorites]
How about, "It was so nice to see you. My partner and I need to discuss a private matter; would you excuse us?"
posted by kinetic at 1:13 PM on August 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by kinetic at 1:13 PM on August 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
While I see that this person committed a social misstep by not reading your "get the hell away from me" vibes, it seems that you were the one being rude. I'm not certain that your expectations for a public, unassigned seating event were reasonable. Anyone was welcome to sit next to you. Whether this person who shares an acquaintance with your husband did so or another stranger was not within your control nor should it have been.
Talking during the lecture? Sure, tell the usher. Fiddling on his smartphone screen during the lecture? Again, usher. But to ask that he be moved because of vocal pitch before the thing started and body language seems beyond the pale. That you found him stressful was frankly no ones problem other than yours and your SOs.
posted by cecic at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2015 [13 favorites]
Talking during the lecture? Sure, tell the usher. Fiddling on his smartphone screen during the lecture? Again, usher. But to ask that he be moved because of vocal pitch before the thing started and body language seems beyond the pale. That you found him stressful was frankly no ones problem other than yours and your SOs.
posted by cecic at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2015 [13 favorites]
I think your SO should have taken on a larger role in this situation.
posted by rhizome at 1:53 PM on August 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 1:53 PM on August 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
But this was obviously not ideal, and I'd like to handle it better if it ever happens again.
Well, for future reference, if you are at this same venue, now you know who to speak to when other people are harassing you by refusing to respect that you cannot go elsewhere. So let them know nicely that you wanted to be alone with your SO ("for date night" or whatever) and if it becomes clear they are just jerks, then mention that you will go to the head of staff if they don't move. If they still do not move, go speak with head of staff and get them moved.
Ideally, it would be great if you and/or your SO could be more direct in situations like this. But I really think that someone taking advantage of your inability to move somewhere is doing something incredibly dickish. I am also handicapped. It is a different handicap from what you are dealing with. I am well aware that a lot of people won't understand and won't accommodate and will act like your expectations are ridiculous while turning a blind eye to the fact that you simply cannot do some of the same things other people could and would do in the same situation and that the fact that you literally cannot does mean you are being rude to handle it differently from the cultural norm of you walking away. You did try to physically move away in spite of your wheelchair and it got you crabbed at.
So I understand that you are kind of socially on thin ice here and all the cultural social norms favor the person who chose to impose on you. I do choose to exclude people from my life who cannot make reasonable accommodation of my handicap. Yes, that means I have a more limited social circle than a lot of people. But the "inconveniences" other people expect me to put up with out of politeness are not mere nuisances for me. They can easily become life threatening.
I have known people in wheelchairs. They tend to have some very serious health problems. I suspect you get so easily stressed because being wheelchair bound impairs your immune system and you live with a lot of problems that can be hard to identify as due to being a wheelchair and hard to explain to other people, but they are nonetheless there.
Please reset your personal social barometer and do not count people among your "friends" who cannot make reasonable accommodation of your handicap. Start playing things a lot more defensively. Don't be as "nice" and friendly in the lobby or whatever if it is likely to lead to a situation like this. No, you can't control other people in a public venue but you shouldn't have to flee either as the only solution when someone is aggressively disregarding your sense of personal space and preferences. You do enough of that and it leaves you with no life.
I suggest you both get better at nipping things in the bud much, much earlier and also get more aggressive about enforcing your personal boundaries. I think a big part of the problem here is you could not sit elsewhere. You tried and YOU got in trouble for it.
I think the take-away from the kinds of replies you got here is that most people honestly won't understand why this is such a problem for you, thus the only hope of a diplomatic and socially acceptable solution is to develop really good radar and nip things in the bud very early. Just do not be as friendly in the lobby next time. Plead handicapped status and how going anywhere is such a huge hassle and make it clear you don't have time or energy to spare for social niceties. Be careful to do so in a manner that doesn't invite them to come sit near you. Make sure to spell out that it takes all your energy just to attend and you have none to spare for more.
posted by Michele in California at 1:58 PM on August 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, for future reference, if you are at this same venue, now you know who to speak to when other people are harassing you by refusing to respect that you cannot go elsewhere. So let them know nicely that you wanted to be alone with your SO ("for date night" or whatever) and if it becomes clear they are just jerks, then mention that you will go to the head of staff if they don't move. If they still do not move, go speak with head of staff and get them moved.
Ideally, it would be great if you and/or your SO could be more direct in situations like this. But I really think that someone taking advantage of your inability to move somewhere is doing something incredibly dickish. I am also handicapped. It is a different handicap from what you are dealing with. I am well aware that a lot of people won't understand and won't accommodate and will act like your expectations are ridiculous while turning a blind eye to the fact that you simply cannot do some of the same things other people could and would do in the same situation and that the fact that you literally cannot does mean you are being rude to handle it differently from the cultural norm of you walking away. You did try to physically move away in spite of your wheelchair and it got you crabbed at.
So I understand that you are kind of socially on thin ice here and all the cultural social norms favor the person who chose to impose on you. I do choose to exclude people from my life who cannot make reasonable accommodation of my handicap. Yes, that means I have a more limited social circle than a lot of people. But the "inconveniences" other people expect me to put up with out of politeness are not mere nuisances for me. They can easily become life threatening.
I have known people in wheelchairs. They tend to have some very serious health problems. I suspect you get so easily stressed because being wheelchair bound impairs your immune system and you live with a lot of problems that can be hard to identify as due to being a wheelchair and hard to explain to other people, but they are nonetheless there.
Please reset your personal social barometer and do not count people among your "friends" who cannot make reasonable accommodation of your handicap. Start playing things a lot more defensively. Don't be as "nice" and friendly in the lobby or whatever if it is likely to lead to a situation like this. No, you can't control other people in a public venue but you shouldn't have to flee either as the only solution when someone is aggressively disregarding your sense of personal space and preferences. You do enough of that and it leaves you with no life.
I suggest you both get better at nipping things in the bud much, much earlier and also get more aggressive about enforcing your personal boundaries. I think a big part of the problem here is you could not sit elsewhere. You tried and YOU got in trouble for it.
I think the take-away from the kinds of replies you got here is that most people honestly won't understand why this is such a problem for you, thus the only hope of a diplomatic and socially acceptable solution is to develop really good radar and nip things in the bud very early. Just do not be as friendly in the lobby next time. Plead handicapped status and how going anywhere is such a huge hassle and make it clear you don't have time or energy to spare for social niceties. Be careful to do so in a manner that doesn't invite them to come sit near you. Make sure to spell out that it takes all your energy just to attend and you have none to spare for more.
posted by Michele in California at 1:58 PM on August 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
That 2nd paragraph should say: does NOT mean you are being rude to handle it differently.
Whoops.
posted by Michele in California at 2:54 PM on August 22, 2015
Whoops.
posted by Michele in California at 2:54 PM on August 22, 2015
I think your SO should have taken on a larger role in this situation.
There's no point in quoting all of the several comments to this effect, but yea, this.
I run interference on stuff like this with my friends for my SO all the time when she obviously doesn't want to deal with them, or people in general right then and we just want to quietly do $THING.
This should not be foisted on to you if it's her friend. She's the one who needs to interact with them and turn them around even if it's "awkward" or whatever.
My reading of this really makes it feel like they sort of flopped on this one because they didn't want to engage with that stressful awkward activity and would rather just let you feel crappy than feel crappy themselves.
That's not being a good partner, and this kind of stuff is part of the reasonably expected emotional labor in a relationship, at least to me.
posted by emptythought at 3:42 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's no point in quoting all of the several comments to this effect, but yea, this.
I run interference on stuff like this with my friends for my SO all the time when she obviously doesn't want to deal with them, or people in general right then and we just want to quietly do $THING.
This should not be foisted on to you if it's her friend. She's the one who needs to interact with them and turn them around even if it's "awkward" or whatever.
My reading of this really makes it feel like they sort of flopped on this one because they didn't want to engage with that stressful awkward activity and would rather just let you feel crappy than feel crappy themselves.
That's not being a good partner, and this kind of stuff is part of the reasonably expected emotional labor in a relationship, at least to me.
posted by emptythought at 3:42 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is there a polite way to say, "Actually, we were hoping it would just be [SO and I] sitting together?"
I think this is a perfectly fine thing to say.
posted by oneirodynia at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think this is a perfectly fine thing to say.
posted by oneirodynia at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd like to handle it better if it ever happens again.
You clearly do not like this acquaintance at all. Honestly, next time I would just not have the friendly chat with this specific acquaintance. If you see them, don't say hi, act as if they are a stranger and just look away. If they stop and talk to you, be curt, don't smile, and get away as quickly as you can. Don't ask questions, don't engage, don't be friendly. You body language and demeanor will send the message so your words don't have to. You may feel rude -- we are conditioned that anything less than being super friendly and accommodating is rude -- but why be fake and act like you want this person's company around you when you don't?
Most acquaintances wouldn't come sit with you if you sent the subtle cue of: "Well, it was nice seeing you -- we're gonna take our seats now." Most people would hear that sentence and go on their way. But you know that this acquaintance doesn't get those signals, so you need to send stronger ones. Being direct is always an option, too. I've said, "I don't really feel like having company right now." Life is too short to be stuck with people who annoy the shit outta you.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:18 PM on August 22, 2015
You clearly do not like this acquaintance at all. Honestly, next time I would just not have the friendly chat with this specific acquaintance. If you see them, don't say hi, act as if they are a stranger and just look away. If they stop and talk to you, be curt, don't smile, and get away as quickly as you can. Don't ask questions, don't engage, don't be friendly. You body language and demeanor will send the message so your words don't have to. You may feel rude -- we are conditioned that anything less than being super friendly and accommodating is rude -- but why be fake and act like you want this person's company around you when you don't?
Most acquaintances wouldn't come sit with you if you sent the subtle cue of: "Well, it was nice seeing you -- we're gonna take our seats now." Most people would hear that sentence and go on their way. But you know that this acquaintance doesn't get those signals, so you need to send stronger ones. Being direct is always an option, too. I've said, "I don't really feel like having company right now." Life is too short to be stuck with people who annoy the shit outta you.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:18 PM on August 22, 2015
we had to put up with 20 minutes plus of [acquaintance] talking in their nails-on-a-chalkboard voice
Frankly if I was your acquaintance I'd rather you just came out and told me that you disliked the sound of my voice and didn't like me at all, rather than waste any more time being friendly with you. Perhaps acquaintance has other friends around they would prefer to chat with than someone who can't stand them.
Who knows, maybe they don't like you either and are just talking to you to be polite!
posted by yohko at 6:03 PM on August 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
Frankly if I was your acquaintance I'd rather you just came out and told me that you disliked the sound of my voice and didn't like me at all, rather than waste any more time being friendly with you. Perhaps acquaintance has other friends around they would prefer to chat with than someone who can't stand them.
Who knows, maybe they don't like you either and are just talking to you to be polite!
posted by yohko at 6:03 PM on August 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
You might find this little video talk by Pema Chodron helpful.
posted by NoraCharles at 8:13 PM on August 22, 2015
posted by NoraCharles at 8:13 PM on August 22, 2015
I am stunned at how many people are siding with the acquaintance!
If the 3 people involved were non-dating members of the same social circle, that would be different, and expectations would be different. But these are two dating people at an event that cost money to attend, and they are attending together, as a couple. Someone who is only acquainted with one of the people, and doesn't know the other has ignored or been oblivious to clear social signals and invited themselves into their evening out. The wheelchair doesn't matter, the voice doesn't matter. When you run into two people you sort of know, and they are clearly on a date, you say hi, make some small talk, then EXCUSE YOURSELF.
The OP's behavior wasn't rude in context, it was a response to the clueless behavior of he acquaintance. If the gentle tap of the cluefeather doesn't work, sometimes a smack with the cluebat is required.
posted by booksherpa at 8:28 PM on August 22, 2015
If the 3 people involved were non-dating members of the same social circle, that would be different, and expectations would be different. But these are two dating people at an event that cost money to attend, and they are attending together, as a couple. Someone who is only acquainted with one of the people, and doesn't know the other has ignored or been oblivious to clear social signals and invited themselves into their evening out. The wheelchair doesn't matter, the voice doesn't matter. When you run into two people you sort of know, and they are clearly on a date, you say hi, make some small talk, then EXCUSE YOURSELF.
The OP's behavior wasn't rude in context, it was a response to the clueless behavior of he acquaintance. If the gentle tap of the cluefeather doesn't work, sometimes a smack with the cluebat is required.
posted by booksherpa at 8:28 PM on August 22, 2015
Well, except there was nothing really suggesting this was actually a date; that's just what people were suggesting as an excuse to get rid of the acquaintance. Not every public excursion with one's SO is a date, and frankly, if I saw two people at a lecture, I wouldn't assume "date," since most people that I'm acquainted with wouldn't choose to spend date nights at a public lecture. Lecture would bespeak more something like "professional enrichment" than "date," and in that case, I don't think it's unreasonable that an acquaintance would sit down next to you in a theater after meeting you in the lobby for an event with general seating.
posted by holborne at 9:03 PM on August 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by holborne at 9:03 PM on August 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
Maybe: "I'm sorry, I'm getting a migraine. I need to sit here quietly until the lecture starts. Would you please stop talking. Perhaps you would like to sit closer to the stage."
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:25 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:25 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wonder honestly if this person has reason to think they are closer to your SO than you wish they were because you find them irritating? Maybe when your SO encounters them without you it's fine, so they have no way of assuming they'll be unwelcome.
I have PTSD and am also easily stressed by people, but i also know it's not their responsibility not to upset me with their existence.
Telling the usher about the acquaintance also seems super passive aggressive and really not cool even if you were stressed. If anything this was your SO's job to run interference and I'm really not sure why he didn't.
posted by corb at 9:31 PM on August 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
I have PTSD and am also easily stressed by people, but i also know it's not their responsibility not to upset me with their existence.
Telling the usher about the acquaintance also seems super passive aggressive and really not cool even if you were stressed. If anything this was your SO's job to run interference and I'm really not sure why he didn't.
posted by corb at 9:31 PM on August 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
"Oh, please don't feel obligated to sit with us" - oh, we'd like to sit with you - "No, really, there are much better seats several rows down, do please take one of those seats, you will enjoy the lecture much more" - no, it's fine, we'll sit here - "oh no, really, you must take advantage of the better seats. I INSIST. We'll catch up with you later".
If they still sit with you, well, they are just clods and no amount of being polite will get you out of that.
posted by vignettist at 10:29 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
If they still sit with you, well, they are just clods and no amount of being polite will get you out of that.
posted by vignettist at 10:29 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Having mulled this over, may I suggest an exit strategy for the future? I had a very polite excuse above but sometimes it takes too much effort (especially if you are in a fight-or-flee-ohgod-migraine mode). So. New strategy.
Have an agreed trigger phrase with your SO. When he hears that phrase, he knows it's his job to step in and get you into safe mode. In this case, it would be to ensure you get to sit quietly on your own with nobody around.
Trigger phrase suggestions:
"Man, suddenly I feel all burned out" (less subtle)
"Is it me, or does it smell like onions all of a sudden?"
"Did Scarlett [or other distinct/unusual name of fictional friend] say they were coming tonight?"
Something along those lines.
posted by kariebookish at 3:17 AM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Have an agreed trigger phrase with your SO. When he hears that phrase, he knows it's his job to step in and get you into safe mode. In this case, it would be to ensure you get to sit quietly on your own with nobody around.
Trigger phrase suggestions:
"Man, suddenly I feel all burned out" (less subtle)
"Is it me, or does it smell like onions all of a sudden?"
"Did Scarlett [or other distinct/unusual name of fictional friend] say they were coming tonight?"
Something along those lines.
posted by kariebookish at 3:17 AM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Did Scarlett [or other distinct/unusual name of fictional friend] say they were coming tonight?"
Oh, yeah! You could just lie! Say, "it was so nice to see you; unfortunately you can't sit with us because I'm saving a seat for Englebert who is meeting us here. There are many seats up closer. BUHBYE."
And as far as them yakking and driving you crazy before the lecture I stand by my earlier comment and tell them you and your date have something private to discuss BUHBYE.
posted by kinetic at 4:20 AM on August 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, yeah! You could just lie! Say, "it was so nice to see you; unfortunately you can't sit with us because I'm saving a seat for Englebert who is meeting us here. There are many seats up closer. BUHBYE."
And as far as them yakking and driving you crazy before the lecture I stand by my earlier comment and tell them you and your date have something private to discuss BUHBYE.
posted by kinetic at 4:20 AM on August 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think if you know the people, you *have* to ask them to move yourself before you ask staff to ask them to move. Asking staff to move them was the absolute rudest thing. Asking them to move yourself (or more likely having your SO ask them to move) would have been better than that.
I think probably what would have been best would have been for your SO to say, "Hey, Sockpuppets is feeling kind of under the weather today and isn't up for conversation; would you guys mind sitting somewhere else?" Basically, "It's not you, it's us."
posted by mskyle at 5:25 AM on August 23, 2015 [14 favorites]
I think probably what would have been best would have been for your SO to say, "Hey, Sockpuppets is feeling kind of under the weather today and isn't up for conversation; would you guys mind sitting somewhere else?" Basically, "It's not you, it's us."
posted by mskyle at 5:25 AM on August 23, 2015 [14 favorites]
The more I read, I think you should discuss this with your significant other to figure out what happened and how it could go differently another time. I do understand your stressed out feeling. Lectures and concerts and things can be anxiety producing; you can't control the environment and I can only imagine having to contend with the added layer of having to sit only in one designated spot. So you have to try to make a plan. This may mean you just can't sit with people impromptu and you have to make it a blanket policy to discourage any and everyone. What if this had been an extended restaurant meal or something? Maybe your SO needs to promise to take anyone aside who tries to sit with you.
Your story reminded me of the time I attended, not just a single lecture but a weekend conference with an acquaintance who turned out to have very had habits such as talking during the presentations. (I won't describe it in detail but it was seriously strange and disruptive and inappropriate.) A friend of mine saw us and came to sit down for one presentation. Afterwards she said, "Oh my god you didn't tell me your friend acted like that!" I had no idea she was going to be like that either and I almost gave myself an anxiety attack wondering if I should be able to control the situation somehow. These kinds of events are anxiety producing and full of opportunities to be socially uncomfortable.
posted by BibiRose at 6:26 AM on August 23, 2015
Your story reminded me of the time I attended, not just a single lecture but a weekend conference with an acquaintance who turned out to have very had habits such as talking during the presentations. (I won't describe it in detail but it was seriously strange and disruptive and inappropriate.) A friend of mine saw us and came to sit down for one presentation. Afterwards she said, "Oh my god you didn't tell me your friend acted like that!" I had no idea she was going to be like that either and I almost gave myself an anxiety attack wondering if I should be able to control the situation somehow. These kinds of events are anxiety producing and full of opportunities to be socially uncomfortable.
posted by BibiRose at 6:26 AM on August 23, 2015
It sounds like y'all made the appropriate polite indication in the lobby that you weren't expecting the acquaintance to sit with you.
Once they ignored those cues, I think it would be on you to say something like, "Oh, I'm not feeling very well, and I really need some quiet time before the lecture. Would it be possible for both of you to move up to different seats if you want to keep talking? I'd move, but this is the only place I can be."
At which point it's on your SO to either move with the acquaintance (which can be an effective way of getting someone to leave), at least for a few minutes to wrap up the conversation and then say, "I need to go check on Hot Buttered Sockpuppets, but it was good talking to you!" and really insist, if necessary, that acquaintance stay in the new seat.
Basically, you need to state your needs, and your SO needs to be willing to help herd people away from you, if that's what you've stated you need, when you're in a situation where you can't really physically evade someone. Just disappearing (either emotionally tuning out or physically leaving) and hoping people read your mind is unlikely to work particularly well.
posted by jaguar at 8:02 AM on August 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
Once they ignored those cues, I think it would be on you to say something like, "Oh, I'm not feeling very well, and I really need some quiet time before the lecture. Would it be possible for both of you to move up to different seats if you want to keep talking? I'd move, but this is the only place I can be."
At which point it's on your SO to either move with the acquaintance (which can be an effective way of getting someone to leave), at least for a few minutes to wrap up the conversation and then say, "I need to go check on Hot Buttered Sockpuppets, but it was good talking to you!" and really insist, if necessary, that acquaintance stay in the new seat.
Basically, you need to state your needs, and your SO needs to be willing to help herd people away from you, if that's what you've stated you need, when you're in a situation where you can't really physically evade someone. Just disappearing (either emotionally tuning out or physically leaving) and hoping people read your mind is unlikely to work particularly well.
posted by jaguar at 8:02 AM on August 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
I've told people I was in the middle of a fight with my partner that we needed to resolve. That's always gold--nobody wants to sit with a couple in the middle of an argument.
posted by yellowcandy at 7:56 PM on August 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by yellowcandy at 7:56 PM on August 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Bonus question: is the acquaintance rude for inviting themselves to sit with you without asking either of you first?
ask vs. guess culture
posted by Jacqueline at 9:50 PM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
ask vs. guess culture
posted by Jacqueline at 9:50 PM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
What you've described here is an "SO Who Is Not On Team You" problem, not necessarily an acquaintance problem. That you had to seek help from a total stranger instead of your SO, who was sitting right there with you! and didn't lift a finger to assist you speaks volumes about your relationship.
posted by hush at 11:20 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by hush at 11:20 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
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