Books and websites to tackle the "is it art?" question
August 18, 2015 3:40 PM Subscribe
My dad and I were recently talking about aesthetics of new and popular music. He was telling me his reasons that he believes 4'33" isn't music. I disagree with him wholeheartedly, but it led to an interesting discussion. I think he'd enjoy reading about it more so I'm looking for some book and/or websites that we could both read and then talk about.
We were mainly talking about music, but I think that discussions of visual art, design, theater, performance art, etc. would also be welcome. He's socially pretty conservative (he began the discussion saying that he didn't think hip-hop was real music) but also open to new ideas (he eventually came around on that one).
Digital resources would be preferable to hard-copy things since he doesn't really need more physical goods in his house at the moment, but if you have a book you love, I'll take those suggestions too.
We were mainly talking about music, but I think that discussions of visual art, design, theater, performance art, etc. would also be welcome. He's socially pretty conservative (he began the discussion saying that he didn't think hip-hop was real music) but also open to new ideas (he eventually came around on that one).
Digital resources would be preferable to hard-copy things since he doesn't really need more physical goods in his house at the moment, but if you have a book you love, I'll take those suggestions too.
The documentary "Exit Through the Gift Shop" has sparked this conversation with both in-laws and parents in a thoughtful and surprising way
posted by sestaaak at 4:56 PM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sestaaak at 4:56 PM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Digital to start: John Berger's Ways of Seeing [pdf] in conjunction with MoMA's 'What is Modern Art?'.
Print: 'Art Since 1900' is the go-to text for modern art. If you were to buy one book to learn about what modern art is it ought to be this text.
posted by standardasparagus at 5:55 PM on August 18, 2015
Print: 'Art Since 1900' is the go-to text for modern art. If you were to buy one book to learn about what modern art is it ought to be this text.
posted by standardasparagus at 5:55 PM on August 18, 2015
No guarantee expressed or implied -- I haven't listened yet -- but here's four hours and change of Cage and Morton Feldman discussing music, etc., including "meditations on 'intrusion'".
posted by mr. digits at 6:20 PM on August 18, 2015
posted by mr. digits at 6:20 PM on August 18, 2015
I strongly warn against the book Art Since 1900 (sorry standardasparagus) as it is pretty dense and unwelcoming for beginners. For me, nobody explains art better than the artists themselves. My go-to for this is the PBS documentary series Art 21: Art in the Twenty-First Century. It's a long-running series available on DVD (probably at your local library; some full episodes available in the link) in which only the artists are allowed to speak about their own artwork. No commentators or critics, just the artists, so you get a lot of personal insight into why they create, and the visuals are interesting (in their studios, etc). Each artist has only 20 minutes so the pace is nice and digestible.
posted by nologo at 7:19 PM on August 18, 2015
posted by nologo at 7:19 PM on August 18, 2015
Conversations Before the End of Time features interviews from a wide variety of artists and art-adjacent people discussing what makes thinks art, how art functions, what an audience is, etc. Interviewees include the Guerrilla Girls and also some conservative art-should-only-be-representational types as well.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:21 PM on August 18, 2015
posted by shakespeherian at 9:21 PM on August 18, 2015
So I teach this sometimes. Georgr Dickie's article in APQ in the mid 60s is the classic source. See Noel Carroll's intro textbook Philosophy of Art for more discussion.
posted by persona au gratin at 2:13 AM on August 19, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 2:13 AM on August 19, 2015
Interesting question. I actually cannot think of a really good recent book that addresses contemporary aesthetics, including conceptual arts, in an accessible way for a general popular audience. Someone should write one.
In a previous generation, Tom Wolfe wrote The Painted Word about mid-20th century Abstract Expressionism. He makes some good points, but he tends to be overly flippant and contrarian.
More recently, there was the Roger Ebert Is It Art? debate that linked to a pretty good short lecture by Kellee Santiago.
I have mixed feelings about John Cage, who dominated experimental music theory in the late 20th century, putting a lot of emphasis on chance and randomness, and making compositions that I didn't really care for. But to his credit, he was a very smart guy, and his writings about the nature of music and sound are excellent. His book Silence is quite interesting and highly recommended, even if you don't love his music.
posted by ovvl at 8:14 AM on August 19, 2015
In a previous generation, Tom Wolfe wrote The Painted Word about mid-20th century Abstract Expressionism. He makes some good points, but he tends to be overly flippant and contrarian.
More recently, there was the Roger Ebert Is It Art? debate that linked to a pretty good short lecture by Kellee Santiago.
I have mixed feelings about John Cage, who dominated experimental music theory in the late 20th century, putting a lot of emphasis on chance and randomness, and making compositions that I didn't really care for. But to his credit, he was a very smart guy, and his writings about the nature of music and sound are excellent. His book Silence is quite interesting and highly recommended, even if you don't love his music.
posted by ovvl at 8:14 AM on August 19, 2015
Robert Hughes - The Shock of the New - is a great intro to modern art. He's opinionated but he expresses himself very clearly. The book is good and I think the tv series is on YouTube.
posted by njohnson23 at 11:50 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by njohnson23 at 11:50 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
George Dickie. Sorry; iPad.
posted by persona au gratin at 2:24 PM on August 19, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 2:24 PM on August 19, 2015
Oh Yeah, ^, I was a big fan of Robert Hughes back when I was in Art-School (a few, um, years ago), he was very candid and insightful: The Shock of The New is an excellent overview of 20th century modernism and related issues. In 2004 he made a sort-of follow up, The New Shock of The New, which I didn't love quite as much.
The nature of recent contemporary art has changed quite a lot in the last few years. The copying and collage of 90's post-modernism has morphed into some interesting and complex cross-referential stuff, some of which is silly and over-rated, and some things which are amazing.
To go back up to original question, if you would like to have some interesting dinner table conversations about art with your friends and family, then pull up this website and ask everyone what they like/don't like: The 50 Most Iconic Artworks of the Past Five Years (2013).
posted by ovvl at 4:55 PM on August 19, 2015
The nature of recent contemporary art has changed quite a lot in the last few years. The copying and collage of 90's post-modernism has morphed into some interesting and complex cross-referential stuff, some of which is silly and over-rated, and some things which are amazing.
To go back up to original question, if you would like to have some interesting dinner table conversations about art with your friends and family, then pull up this website and ask everyone what they like/don't like: The 50 Most Iconic Artworks of the Past Five Years (2013).
posted by ovvl at 4:55 PM on August 19, 2015
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posted by John Cohen at 3:54 PM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]