How to handle an annoying roommate?

December 1, 2005 10:12 PM

Roommate filter: We're having issues with a housemate/friend.

I moved in with three friends this school year. I am very close to one of them, jeff. I was good friends with brad before, and chris is someone I barely know.

jeff and I had some doubts about moving in with brad before, but we quashed them because he was/is our friend. Now we are paying for it.

Brad has very different (ie excessive) standards of cleanliness. He never takes responsibility for anything, and is constantly bringing up issues with the two of us in an incredibly patronizing manner. He even admits that he's being patronizing, and says he's doing it because the issues are so obvious to him that he can't help it. He is far from perfect himself, but never admits to making any messes or being anything other than perfect. He doesn't see the house as a shared space per se - there are messes that other people create, and that he's not responsible for, despite the fact that it's usually impossible to pin a particular mess on a particular person, and messes in the house affect all of us equally, despite who did it. I think the issue is differing styles of living - Jeff and I clean things up when we see them, not worrying about who created a mess, whereas brad demands that a mess get cleaned up. We have cleaned up brads' messes several times, but he often drags us out of studying/doing other productive things to clean up messes that he claims that we created. He is also incredibly passive aggressive and puts things like 'dirty roommates' as his msn name. We just had a heated conversation today, all four of us, and he basically called us slobs, refused to take responsibility for anything, and told us that he's quite happy living in his room and not talking to any of us. It's creating a toxic atmostphere in our house. I'm okay with having him just as a guy who lives with us rather than a friend. What I can't deal with are his incredibly patronizing and hypocritical comments that are always delivered with a sneer. I'm not paying good money to have him shove dirty dishes in my face. How have you dealt with a less-than-ideal living situation? How do I stop myself being incredibly pissed off for hours after every patronizing remark he makes?

Secondly, despite his attitude, he seems unable to keep his music at a reasonable volume. The issue is his subwoofer, which is right above my room. I constantly have to ask him to turn it down - he claims that the volume changes from song to song, so he doesn't know what a 'reasonable' volume is. Can he shield his subwoofer somehow so I'm not subjected to constant bass beats?

posted by lemur to Human Relations (27 answers total)

Move or kick him out. He's never going to change and you will be so much happier.
posted by fshgrl at 10:27 PM on December 1, 2005

Get a cleaning service. Seriously. I was probably close to the "brad" in this scenario in my house. My expectations for the communal spaces (things like no dirty dishes left in the living room or kitchen overnight, no dirty socks on the living room floor, etc.) were much higher than my roommates'. I happily cleaned up after them for a couple of months, reasoning that since I wanted a clean house it wasn't a big deal to clean it. After a while, though, I got worn down and started getting irritated. I probably said some rude things.

Now we all contribute to pay for a weekly cleaning service, which has been amazing. The little day-to-day pick-ups still need to happen, but when the place looks and smells so nice and clean, it's a lot easier to keep it that way.

As for the music, have him put in his favorite CD and raise the volume gradually until it bothers you. Then he can put a piece of tape with a mark on it right at that level, and he can't claim any more misunderstandings about volume level. You can also try to ask him to use headphones after a certain time at night.

Lastly, living with people is really hard and it always takes work. Sometimes hanging out as friends away from the house, eating dinner, talking about other stuff, really eases the tension. Bake some cookies or pick up a 12-pack or whatever and hang out as friends. As you've already figured out, having a good living environment is more than tidiness and quiet sleeping time-- hostility between housemates can be a huge drag on everyone involved.
posted by bonheur at 10:30 PM on December 1, 2005

Sounds like you need to tell him that it isn't working out. To save the friendship, you all feel that he should move on to a place where he will be more comfortable.

If you are trying to get him to change, forget it. He'll only change if he feels like it is better to change than not. I am willing to bet he can do "jerk" a lot longer than you two can take it. This is going to go badly if you all keep down this path and nothing you can do will make it much better (as I think he is being unreasonable from your description).

If he balks at moving out, lay out the ground rules that he must deal with. Let him know that he is going to be very unhappy living under those ground rules, as he has made it perfectly clear his is not interested in compromise.

On a side note, it sounds like this guy is suffering from depression and/or anxiety. He is trying desperately to control his world around him and you and and the others are getting pulled into his dysfunction. As I've always said, you can't live someone's life for them. He needs to be on his own with the control that he is going for. I would suggest not dragging it out and coming up with a plan for his departure as soon as possible with as much help as you all can afford him.
posted by qwip at 10:31 PM on December 1, 2005

Can he shield his subwoofer somehow so I'm not subjected to constant bass beats?

Ask him to try out some of those new-fangled "head-phones."
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:27 PM on December 1, 2005

Tell him to put his subwoofer somewhere other than on the floor. Many of them are designed to point downward and fire into the floor. Simply turning them on their side can sometimes help. Try putting the sub in a corner or moving it to a non-corner position and see what difference it makes inside and outside the room. (When it's in the corner it should be able to be turned down and still have the same apparent volume in the room. I'm not sure whether this will have any effect outside the room, but it's worth a try.)
posted by kindall at 11:52 PM on December 1, 2005

I feel like I've only heard one side of a very heated argument. Are you sure the situation is entirely Brad's fault? You accuse him of refusing to take responsibility for anything then do the same in your post. Are you such a perfect housemate? Sharing your space with other people is always difficult but the problems are rarely so one-sided.

I suspect things have escalated to such an acrimonious level because you are all, to some extent, behaving immaturely and selfishly. If you want to resolve the conflict and smooth over the tensions in your home you're going to have to sit down and talk about it like mature adults. That means respecting each other's feelings, listening to and understand each other's grievances, and compromising on solutions.

Of course, you could just kick him out instead -- he will undoubtedly be much happier not living with you if nothing changes.
posted by londonmark at 1:23 AM on December 2, 2005

Lastly, living with people is really hard and it always takes work.

I disagree with this as strongly as it is possible to disagree with things over the internets. Living with difficult people is really hard, and always takes work.

Living with compatible people, on the other hand, is completely stress-free, and requires only mutual respect.

I spent a lot of stressful years in positions similar to yours, lemur, before I made the decision to not live with passive-aggressive jerks anymore. My life is now immeasurably better for it.
posted by Jairus at 3:43 AM on December 2, 2005

Having a subwoofer as part of your stereo system when your room is above someone else's, is pretty much the biggest asshole move you can make. Your best option is to go your separate ways, as being forced to change youself for your roommates will only lead to resentment (trust me, I know).
posted by antifuse at 4:18 AM on December 2, 2005

Having a subwoofer as part of your stereo system when your room is above someone else's, is pretty much the biggest asshole move you can make.

This is absolutely correct. A subwoofer is a luxury for a stereo system, not a necessity.
posted by Prospero at 4:59 AM on December 2, 2005

Sounds like he needs a brisk rogering. Sorry.

Seriously... It sounds like you've tried talking to him, and he has chosen to handle the situation by going to go to his room and sulking. Maybe time to start the search for a new housemate. But at least give him a heads-up. Communication (which you've done) is important.

And the subwoofer? Sheesh! What's wrong with headphones?
posted by ObscureReferenceMan at 6:01 AM on December 2, 2005

The volume on MP3s is variable, just to give Brad his due. It's a PITA. Processing can fix this, if one bothers.

I am a person who goes insane over other people's music. I don't care if it happens to be my very favorite music, I hate hearing it, in my space, unless I put it on myself. I become horribly combative to everyone around me. My partner is amazing, our relationship survived living next door to an Afghani musician for 5 years. (awesome music, but he would start practicing just before our bed time!)
posted by Goofyy at 6:07 AM on December 2, 2005

As for the obsessive cleaning, about the only thing you can do (short of a mad service) is to have a big discussion and everybody agree that all "messes" will be cleaned up by the "messor" immediately, but the "messee" who discovers any uncleaned "messes" will be polite about inquiries, and any potential "messor" who denies the "mess" will be assumed innocent unless affirmative evidence of guilt is found.

If you all agree that you want to be clean, and you all make an effort at it, everything should go fine. However, it sounds like this guy is just a jerk, and you should ditch him.
posted by MrZero at 6:25 AM on December 2, 2005

He's annoyed, you and the other roommates are annoyed, you're incompatible regarding living together. He needs to move out.
posted by desuetude at 7:08 AM on December 2, 2005

You mention that you're in school - if this is a dorm or student housing situation where you aren't able to remove the housemate, you may want to look into arbitration/ mediation services that are offered by the student life people at your school.

I was in a similar situation, and although the mediation was ultimately unsuccessful (in that the problem roommate remained a demon in human form) it did give us all a few months of somewhat improved living conditions until it was time to move into the library during exams in April.
posted by Cyrie at 8:13 AM on December 2, 2005

Ditto on the Cleaning service.

How about buy him wireless headphones? He gets personal music...and you get relief?
posted by filmgeek at 8:55 AM on December 2, 2005

Had the same thing happen, only the roommate who was so concerned with our messes was also an alcoholic.
He lives in a different city now, and we're cordial when we see each other. Do the best you can, but realize that this is likely only going to be solved by moving out. Sounds like Brad needs his own place.
posted by klangklangston at 9:07 AM on December 2, 2005

Another voice here, saying vote his patronising ass off the island. I have lived with several roommates with incompatible cleanliness habits, and mutual respect and a sense of humor was all it took to live through it with few headaches.
To hell with him.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 10:14 AM on December 2, 2005

Good answers from everyone else so nothing else I can add apart from the fact that there is a free windows application called MP3Gain that can normalise his mp3's to the same volume level without reducing the sound quality.

I use it all the time.
posted by mr_silver at 10:21 AM on December 2, 2005

You guys shouldn't live with eachother.
posted by cellphone at 10:29 AM on December 2, 2005

Having a subwoofer as part of your stereo system when your room is above someone else's, is pretty much the biggest asshole move you can make.

This is absolutely correct. A subwoofer is a luxury for a stereo system, not a necessity.

disagree, unless you're just gonna listen to ice cream truck music.

The subwoofer problem can probably be solved by setting it on a stool, so it's not touching the ground or a wall. He'll have a little less bass, but that way he can keep the sub and you can keep your sanity. Whether or not he'll be willing to do it (or end up turning up the volume to compensate for lack of bass) is another matter.
posted by fishfucker at 10:52 AM on December 2, 2005

It is possible that not living together is the best answer. However, to stick up slightly for your roommate: If you are a clean kind of person, especially the clean kind of person who makes a point of cleaning up messes you make, other people leaving messes can be the most frustrating thing ever. It essentially seems like a massive form of disrespect, in that by leaving a mess in the common area, you are making it unusable for everyone else unless they feel like cleaning up first. It's like taking a poo in someone's bed; it renders something that should be calming and easy very frustrating. And I can confirm that this sort of thing can seem so basic that it being disregarded can result in a pretty primal anger.

I'm not saying he dealt with it well. And I'm not saying you aren't right to be annoyed. However, his different experience of mess does not make him a crazy asshole. If it's just for the rest of the year, I'd probably try to come to compromise.
posted by dame at 11:31 AM on December 2, 2005

FWIW, I don't think a cleaning service is need. The guy will still be a patronizing irresponsible passive-aggressive asshat (taking lemur at his word here) even if someone comes in to clean. Besides, the other roommates wait a week for clean dishes unless they want to do them themselves...which they already do? If the messes are clutter, not dirt, a regular cleaning company won't be much help anyway.
posted by desuetude at 11:39 AM on December 2, 2005

I kicked out a roommate once, unilaterally. I still remember how good it felt. When the movers came, I was running boxes down to the truck.

Kick him out.
posted by jon_kill at 11:49 AM on December 2, 2005

Response by poster: Hey guys,

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses.

Our main issue with Brad is the way he chooses to view the space, and the way he expresses his dissatisfaction about the cleanliness of the space.

Brad often will make messes and leave them for a day or so. Jeff and I either ignore them or clean them up. However, when someone else makes a mess, Brad will hunt down whoever did it and make that person clean up the mess. The manner in which he does this is worse than the tone that a mother will adopt to shame a preteen. It's beyond annoying, and he admits he is doing it purposefully in order to 'train' us.

You can see how this would anger anyone. He will not admit to making any of the messes that he makes, and never will take a suggestion or criticism. Jeff and I are both nonconfrontational people, and whereas Brad seems to thrive on conflict.

It comes down to a fundamental incompatibility. I don't want to kick him out, as we only have four months left on the lease (we took an 8 month lease - for the length of the school year) and, despite everything, I still consider this person a friend. I'm trying to find creative ways to coexist with him in this space and not expend so much emotional energy dealing with the irritation he causes me.
posted by lemur at 1:29 PM on December 2, 2005

Train you? Are you fucking kidding?

Creative ways to deal with his powertripping all over you? Either ignore him completely (as in leave the room if he speaks) or gang up on him. Or punch his lights out.
posted by desuetude at 5:25 PM on December 2, 2005

The reason to kick him out is to preserve the friendship. Otherwise, there's no way to correct him without getting really dickish (like keeping a documented mess log or going out of your way to NOT pick up after him and to point out his mess).
posted by klangklangston at 11:37 PM on December 2, 2005

Weekly chore list.

Seriously. That's what my housemates and I have--every week someone does the dishes, someone keeps the bathrooms clean, someone keeps the living rooms clean, etc etc. And at the end of the week we switch.

Does everything get cleaned every week? Of course not. But that's only part of the reason for the chore list. The other part, the really important one, is prevents the who-made-what-mess bickering. It doesn't matter who made the mess, because it's your job to clean it (unless the mess is extreme). And it's OK that you're cleaning up someone else's mess, because next week someone will be cleaning up yours. And nobody sits and nags about someone else not getting a chore done, 'cause if Joe asks Jim to clean the bathroom, Jim has every right to ask Joe to clean up the living room.

Perhaps you guys would be willing to try it?
posted by Anonymous at 12:08 PM on December 3, 2005