"I'm better now..." How to respond?
July 13, 2015 6:42 AM Subscribe
I need some advice on how to deal with my Borderline parent when we're on the phone. I have a hard time dealing with his constant declaring of how much better he is than before. He constantly says that he's been "all positive" lately, when in actuality his borderline behavior has been escalating. Should I call him out when I know what he is saying is BS?
I think he's truly convinced himself that he's never been better, even though every other sentence out of his mouth is a variation on "woe is me." His belief that he is 100% improved upsets me more than his negativity, since I can't fathom how he will ever get better if he's not self-aware enough to realize that he's slipping back into his old ways. He also lies like a fiend, then blows up when I let him know that what he's saying couldn't possibly be true. For example, he accuses me of X, then afterwards says he never said X. He used to be better at manipulating, but his recent fabrications have reached Paul Bunyan-esque proportions.
What are some good methods for responding in situations like this? Should I call him out on it when all he does is get defensive or lie? Or should ignore what he's said and change the subject? I worry that doing so would encourage him to continue (and possibly escalate) his behavior. I'm sure his denial is a self-defense mechanism, but I'm never sure whether to let him know - in as gentle a manner as possible - that he's been exuding negativity for the better part of our conversation and needs to realize this.
(I'm expecting to get some responses telling me that he can't or won't change since he's Borderline. I understand this is a strong possibility, but please refrain from comments to DTMFA - I have to talk to him from time to time, and am specifically looking for ways to deal with him while we're actively conversing and he's pushing all of my buttons.)
I think he's truly convinced himself that he's never been better, even though every other sentence out of his mouth is a variation on "woe is me." His belief that he is 100% improved upsets me more than his negativity, since I can't fathom how he will ever get better if he's not self-aware enough to realize that he's slipping back into his old ways. He also lies like a fiend, then blows up when I let him know that what he's saying couldn't possibly be true. For example, he accuses me of X, then afterwards says he never said X. He used to be better at manipulating, but his recent fabrications have reached Paul Bunyan-esque proportions.
What are some good methods for responding in situations like this? Should I call him out on it when all he does is get defensive or lie? Or should ignore what he's said and change the subject? I worry that doing so would encourage him to continue (and possibly escalate) his behavior. I'm sure his denial is a self-defense mechanism, but I'm never sure whether to let him know - in as gentle a manner as possible - that he's been exuding negativity for the better part of our conversation and needs to realize this.
(I'm expecting to get some responses telling me that he can't or won't change since he's Borderline. I understand this is a strong possibility, but please refrain from comments to DTMFA - I have to talk to him from time to time, and am specifically looking for ways to deal with him while we're actively conversing and he's pushing all of my buttons.)
Based on my experience with delusional family members, your father will not respond to reason. It won't do any good calling him out and trying to get him to see that 2 + 2 makes 4. His mind isn't working like that day to day, and a conversation with you isn't going to suddenly bring him around. Your focus should be on harm reduction (to yourself first, to others, and to your dad).
My approach has had the following elements:
* Don't get too hung up on having a normal conversation flow. Let him tell his stories. Don't reinforce them, but don't put a lot of energy into trying to talk him them.
* Feel free to change the subject at any time; try to change it something that he will enjoy and that is relatively delusion-free or low-stakes ("hey, how them Red Sox! Lousy weather we're having, isn't it?").
* Keep conversations as short as you need.
* Don't accept any abuse or anger directed at you. If anger is directed at someone else, try to redirect without contradicting or arguing. If abuse continues, tell your dad you need to go and would love to talk to him another time.
* If your dad says something that obviously doesn't make sense, feel free to ask a nonjudgmental question about it, "hmm, that's interesting. Are you sure you need to buy a new house before you go grocery shopping? Maybe you could just pick up a few things to eat while you're still house hunting. That way you'll have something to eat if your first offer isn't accepted." If he insists that the house purchase has to happen first, let go of it and move onto another subject.
All that said, there is no set formula here. As Tolstoy might have said, "happy families are all alike, but every delusional family is delusional in its own way." You'll need to pick your way through the minefield in a way that works for your father and for you.
posted by alms at 7:18 AM on July 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
My approach has had the following elements:
* Don't get too hung up on having a normal conversation flow. Let him tell his stories. Don't reinforce them, but don't put a lot of energy into trying to talk him them.
* Feel free to change the subject at any time; try to change it something that he will enjoy and that is relatively delusion-free or low-stakes ("hey, how them Red Sox! Lousy weather we're having, isn't it?").
* Keep conversations as short as you need.
* Don't accept any abuse or anger directed at you. If anger is directed at someone else, try to redirect without contradicting or arguing. If abuse continues, tell your dad you need to go and would love to talk to him another time.
* If your dad says something that obviously doesn't make sense, feel free to ask a nonjudgmental question about it, "hmm, that's interesting. Are you sure you need to buy a new house before you go grocery shopping? Maybe you could just pick up a few things to eat while you're still house hunting. That way you'll have something to eat if your first offer isn't accepted." If he insists that the house purchase has to happen first, let go of it and move onto another subject.
All that said, there is no set formula here. As Tolstoy might have said, "happy families are all alike, but every delusional family is delusional in its own way." You'll need to pick your way through the minefield in a way that works for your father and for you.
posted by alms at 7:18 AM on July 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm going to assume that your borderline dad qualifies as a difficult person at baseline, and that he doesn't necessarily observe the social conventions with you as you would with, say, a neighbor or stranger. It sounds like he is already operating on an idea of personal interaction that is... radically different than yours. He is difficult AND you have feelings about him and your experience of being parented by him. And it seems like you think that if you reason with him--give evidence--outline things logically--all of the things that might work with reasonable people, he will change.
He is not reasonable.
You don't have to engage with him as though he is.
Because you're on the phone, you have the opportunity to do things in the course of conversation that would be considered rude in person. While he's talking at you, you can be doing other things, like your nails, or scrubbing at a dirty spot on the floor, or reorganizing a drawer--any mindless activity that will take your focus off being emotionally engaged with the conversation. You don't have to feel badly about it; this is a protective measure against someone who has demonstrated, again and again, that he is not playing by the same conversational/social/etc. rules that you are.
Master the art of the non-commital "Huh" + subject change.
Remember that an honest emotional response from you will likely amp him up in an unpleasant direction. Neutrality, neutrality, neutrality.
Do not debate. Do not explain. That's only ammunition for him. Neutral, unemotional approaches can be civil, and this is what you should aim for. He does not necessarily want your response as a loving child as much as he needs you to be an object to catch his self-expression; you could be anyone. Again: polite neutrality can help keep the connection without your having to invest in it emotionally.
It sucks. I'm sorry you have to master strategies to deal with a parent's phone call. That's... not the way it should be. Good luck.
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:30 AM on July 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
He is not reasonable.
You don't have to engage with him as though he is.
Because you're on the phone, you have the opportunity to do things in the course of conversation that would be considered rude in person. While he's talking at you, you can be doing other things, like your nails, or scrubbing at a dirty spot on the floor, or reorganizing a drawer--any mindless activity that will take your focus off being emotionally engaged with the conversation. You don't have to feel badly about it; this is a protective measure against someone who has demonstrated, again and again, that he is not playing by the same conversational/social/etc. rules that you are.
Master the art of the non-commital "Huh" + subject change.
Remember that an honest emotional response from you will likely amp him up in an unpleasant direction. Neutrality, neutrality, neutrality.
Do not debate. Do not explain. That's only ammunition for him. Neutral, unemotional approaches can be civil, and this is what you should aim for. He does not necessarily want your response as a loving child as much as he needs you to be an object to catch his self-expression; you could be anyone. Again: polite neutrality can help keep the connection without your having to invest in it emotionally.
It sucks. I'm sorry you have to master strategies to deal with a parent's phone call. That's... not the way it should be. Good luck.
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:30 AM on July 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
Would it help you if you look at his assertion that he's 100% better as just another lie, rather than something he truly believes and that is actively impeding his getting better?
And by help, I mean easier for you to brush it off and mostly ignore, so when you hang up the phone you can mentally leave the conversation behind and not have it taking up space in your head.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:53 AM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
And by help, I mean easier for you to brush it off and mostly ignore, so when you hang up the phone you can mentally leave the conversation behind and not have it taking up space in your head.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:53 AM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think it might be helpful to figure out your goal. If it's to have a pleasant conversation, then deflecting and changing the subject might be a great tactic. If it's to get a sense of what's actually going on so that you can get involved in alerting his treatment team or getting him help, then probing a bit more might make sense. If it's to set boundaries with him because you feel drained and hurt, then pushing back might make sense. If you have some entirely different goal, then maybe something else would be best.
There's not really one right way to respond in this situation, and even if you spend your entire conversation agreeing with him, it's not on you if he does escalate and it's unlikely to have that effect, anyway. I have been in conversations with people with un- and under-treated Borderline Personality Disorder and they've pretty much all been perfectly adept at taking my disagreements and twisting them into support for their own position. In fact, my disagreeing often pushes them to double down on their own opinions/perceptions/"facts." Which is sometimes fine, depending on what I'm trying to accomplish, and sometimes counterproductive. So I think figuring out what you want to achieve (and "bland conversation that doesn't push all my buttons" is a totally valid goal) is the first step.
posted by jaguar at 8:01 AM on July 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
There's not really one right way to respond in this situation, and even if you spend your entire conversation agreeing with him, it's not on you if he does escalate and it's unlikely to have that effect, anyway. I have been in conversations with people with un- and under-treated Borderline Personality Disorder and they've pretty much all been perfectly adept at taking my disagreements and twisting them into support for their own position. In fact, my disagreeing often pushes them to double down on their own opinions/perceptions/"facts." Which is sometimes fine, depending on what I'm trying to accomplish, and sometimes counterproductive. So I think figuring out what you want to achieve (and "bland conversation that doesn't push all my buttons" is a totally valid goal) is the first step.
posted by jaguar at 8:01 AM on July 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Are you part of his therapeutic plan? If so, you should have a way to interact with him. If not, then work at being honest, having some expectations of him.
Blah, blah, things are great. *I'm glad you're feeling good about X.*
Blah, blah, woe is me. *Oh dear, that's worrisome. Do you have a plan to deal with X?*
You can be honest up to a point. If his plan to deal with the electric bill is to win at the races, you can express honest concern.
It can be very difficult to share your own news. *Hey, that's nice about X, but did I tell you I have a new job?* He may continue with his own stuff and you can say, *Wait, where's my congratulations on my new job?* or you can get out of the conversation.
A little gentle humor can help. Having a mental list of topics to distract him and avoid blowups is really helpful. And if you can be honestly affectionate, it's a good thing. Even massively annoying people need love.
When he blames or accuses you, get off the phone. *It's too bad you see it that way. I have to go now. Bye.* Later I never blamed/ accused/ said X *Sometimes you say hurtful things when you're upset and don't remember. When you do that, I won't participate in conversation with you.*
Read the Shamu article, and recognize that what can help is positive reinforcement of behavior that is acceptable, and no engagement with behavior that is unacceptable. Read Stop Walking on Eggshells, which is all about dealing with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder, and is also useful for dealing with anybody who is difficult, manipulative, etc.
My Mom was really difficult, and I genuinely sympathize. Play the long game. You can change how someone behaves with you over time, and if it's someone you want/ need to keep in your life, it's well worth the effort.
posted by theora55 at 8:56 AM on July 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Blah, blah, things are great. *I'm glad you're feeling good about X.*
Blah, blah, woe is me. *Oh dear, that's worrisome. Do you have a plan to deal with X?*
You can be honest up to a point. If his plan to deal with the electric bill is to win at the races, you can express honest concern.
It can be very difficult to share your own news. *Hey, that's nice about X, but did I tell you I have a new job?* He may continue with his own stuff and you can say, *Wait, where's my congratulations on my new job?* or you can get out of the conversation.
A little gentle humor can help. Having a mental list of topics to distract him and avoid blowups is really helpful. And if you can be honestly affectionate, it's a good thing. Even massively annoying people need love.
When he blames or accuses you, get off the phone. *It's too bad you see it that way. I have to go now. Bye.* Later I never blamed/ accused/ said X *Sometimes you say hurtful things when you're upset and don't remember. When you do that, I won't participate in conversation with you.*
Read the Shamu article, and recognize that what can help is positive reinforcement of behavior that is acceptable, and no engagement with behavior that is unacceptable. Read Stop Walking on Eggshells, which is all about dealing with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder, and is also useful for dealing with anybody who is difficult, manipulative, etc.
My Mom was really difficult, and I genuinely sympathize. Play the long game. You can change how someone behaves with you over time, and if it's someone you want/ need to keep in your life, it's well worth the effort.
posted by theora55 at 8:56 AM on July 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
This sounds so frustrating.
I wonder if focusing on taking extra-good care of your own emotional needs would help you get through these calls without getting tangled up in his problems. Like before you get on these calls, make sure you are not hungry, tired, thirsty, sick, stressed, angry about something. Psych yourself up with some sort of serenity pep talk-- accepting the things you can't change and all that-- and have a definite end point for the call, be that 20 minutes or when you feel yourself getting too frustrated, whichever comes first. Mm-hm him neutrally even when he is saying 2+2=5, then you can reward yourself afterward with a treat (or a scream into a pillow.)
Monkeytoes makes an excellent point-- it's the phone, he can't see you rolling your eyes, shaking your head, making the "blah blah blah" hands, scribbling in crayon, drinking your favorite drink, or doing the cleaning. It's really not your job to get him to see reason (if only it were as simple as being told) so the only thing you have some control over is your own wellbeing.
posted by kapers at 10:31 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wonder if focusing on taking extra-good care of your own emotional needs would help you get through these calls without getting tangled up in his problems. Like before you get on these calls, make sure you are not hungry, tired, thirsty, sick, stressed, angry about something. Psych yourself up with some sort of serenity pep talk-- accepting the things you can't change and all that-- and have a definite end point for the call, be that 20 minutes or when you feel yourself getting too frustrated, whichever comes first. Mm-hm him neutrally even when he is saying 2+2=5, then you can reward yourself afterward with a treat (or a scream into a pillow.)
Monkeytoes makes an excellent point-- it's the phone, he can't see you rolling your eyes, shaking your head, making the "blah blah blah" hands, scribbling in crayon, drinking your favorite drink, or doing the cleaning. It's really not your job to get him to see reason (if only it were as simple as being told) so the only thing you have some control over is your own wellbeing.
posted by kapers at 10:31 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd like to clarify a couple things. Is his diagnosis official or armchair? Is he in treatment, and if so, what form is it taking?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:32 AM on July 13, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:32 AM on July 13, 2015
I worry that doing so would encourage him to continue (and possibly escalate) his behavior.
Cross this off your worry list. You are not in any way responsible for where he goes next, or how he takes what you say. Please decide that you will interact with him in the way that's best for you, not in the way that's going to somehow improve his interpretations or actions, or guide him to better mental health -- because that would require magic, not logic or rational steps. Not your job.
posted by vitabellosi at 10:44 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Cross this off your worry list. You are not in any way responsible for where he goes next, or how he takes what you say. Please decide that you will interact with him in the way that's best for you, not in the way that's going to somehow improve his interpretations or actions, or guide him to better mental health -- because that would require magic, not logic or rational steps. Not your job.
posted by vitabellosi at 10:44 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
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If your Dad's behavior isn't going to change, can you just protect yourself by yes-ing him to death and agreeing on things that are unimportant? Does it matter if he thinks he's getting "better," if it's untrue? Is it putting him in danger in any way?
posted by xingcat at 6:50 AM on July 13, 2015