Am I a narcissist?
May 7, 2015 2:50 PM Subscribe
I really hope not and I think probably not, but if not, then what exactly? Not that I need an exact label, but I would love to hear some objective thoughts on this.
My main reason for asking the question is this: I find that I am only attracted to people if they are first attracted to me. As soon as I can tell that someone is attracted to me, it immediately makes them like 99% more attractive to me (of course, doesn't work if they are simply unattractive to me, but if they were on the edge, this would push them over, if that makes sense.)
Is it narcissism? Or is it just a case of me being......... efficient, somehow? Like if someone's not interested in me, what's the point in pursuing them? I've never had hopeless crushes on people because to me it's just pointless.
I used to hate myself. I was in the closet (gay) until one day I realized I could choose happiness and flicked the switch. From then on though, I've been able to revel in compliments and comments on how good I look, etc. Is this narcissism or just healthy self-loving?
And as much as I get comments on my appearance, I somehow still have trouble forming strong relationships. People consistently tell me I'm "sooooo good at meeting new people" and yet I consistently fail to grow these relationships. Granted most of the time I'm just bored with people, but any time I'm actually interested in someone (whether platonically or otherwise) I always get so self-conscious that I'm coming on too strong.
Just for a little background: I'm in my mid-twenties, female, and am travelling somewhat often, so I also wonder if people are uncomfortable with my potential to not be there. Or maybe that's just me projecting......... because one of the things I want most in the world is to have a stable community of friends that I can count on. I haven't had this since I was like, 8 years old. I've found other ways of being content but I really really really really really really really crave this kind of community. And yet, I am also on a path that I am really happy with, pursuing a dream and I can't be in a stable spot. Is it just a matter of me wanting everything?
Probably too many questions already, I know, so I'll leave it at this for now.
My main reason for asking the question is this: I find that I am only attracted to people if they are first attracted to me. As soon as I can tell that someone is attracted to me, it immediately makes them like 99% more attractive to me (of course, doesn't work if they are simply unattractive to me, but if they were on the edge, this would push them over, if that makes sense.)
Is it narcissism? Or is it just a case of me being......... efficient, somehow? Like if someone's not interested in me, what's the point in pursuing them? I've never had hopeless crushes on people because to me it's just pointless.
I used to hate myself. I was in the closet (gay) until one day I realized I could choose happiness and flicked the switch. From then on though, I've been able to revel in compliments and comments on how good I look, etc. Is this narcissism or just healthy self-loving?
And as much as I get comments on my appearance, I somehow still have trouble forming strong relationships. People consistently tell me I'm "sooooo good at meeting new people" and yet I consistently fail to grow these relationships. Granted most of the time I'm just bored with people, but any time I'm actually interested in someone (whether platonically or otherwise) I always get so self-conscious that I'm coming on too strong.
Just for a little background: I'm in my mid-twenties, female, and am travelling somewhat often, so I also wonder if people are uncomfortable with my potential to not be there. Or maybe that's just me projecting......... because one of the things I want most in the world is to have a stable community of friends that I can count on. I haven't had this since I was like, 8 years old. I've found other ways of being content but I really really really really really really really crave this kind of community. And yet, I am also on a path that I am really happy with, pursuing a dream and I can't be in a stable spot. Is it just a matter of me wanting everything?
Probably too many questions already, I know, so I'll leave it at this for now.
You're not a narcissist at all. You're in your mid-20s, which is often indistinguishable from narcissism.
Ok, I'm obviously being a bit facetious, but really not. Truly, I think that's the answer. Once, was I was about 24, my boss, whom I really admired and was close to and who was about twice my age, laughed right in the middle of my talking to him about some personal matter and said, "holborne [he used my real name, obviously], you really do have all the self-absorption of someone your age." He didn't mean it unkindly at all, although I was very offended for a minute until I realized he was absolutely right.
The 20s are actually a pretty tough time in a lot of ways, I think especially for women. You're trying to negotiate friendships outside the context of college or high school, which can be very difficult for adults (it seems from your question that you're confronting that now); you're trying to figure out where your career is going; in many cases, you're trying to decide whether you want to marry or have children or both or neither; you're trying to figure out where you really want to live. That's a lot to have on your plate, and it's all there at once when you're in your 20s.
So in that context, of course you're self-absorbed; it would be kind of weird not to be. You're trying to figure out a ton of important stuff, and by necessity that means thinking about yourself a lot and sort of spending a long time staring at yourself in the mirror, so to speak. Once you hit your 30s, a lot of that stuff shakes out one way or another (although of course not all of it).
So no, I don't think you are. I think you're probably doing fine.
posted by holborne at 3:00 PM on May 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
Ok, I'm obviously being a bit facetious, but really not. Truly, I think that's the answer. Once, was I was about 24, my boss, whom I really admired and was close to and who was about twice my age, laughed right in the middle of my talking to him about some personal matter and said, "holborne [he used my real name, obviously], you really do have all the self-absorption of someone your age." He didn't mean it unkindly at all, although I was very offended for a minute until I realized he was absolutely right.
The 20s are actually a pretty tough time in a lot of ways, I think especially for women. You're trying to negotiate friendships outside the context of college or high school, which can be very difficult for adults (it seems from your question that you're confronting that now); you're trying to figure out where your career is going; in many cases, you're trying to decide whether you want to marry or have children or both or neither; you're trying to figure out where you really want to live. That's a lot to have on your plate, and it's all there at once when you're in your 20s.
So in that context, of course you're self-absorbed; it would be kind of weird not to be. You're trying to figure out a ton of important stuff, and by necessity that means thinking about yourself a lot and sort of spending a long time staring at yourself in the mirror, so to speak. Once you hit your 30s, a lot of that stuff shakes out one way or another (although of course not all of it).
So no, I don't think you are. I think you're probably doing fine.
posted by holborne at 3:00 PM on May 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
And as much as I get comments on my appearance, I somehow still have trouble forming strong relationships.
You might want to have another look at the thought process behind that there sentence. Those two things are not connected at all.
Finding comfort in being alone is an important skill.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 3:25 PM on May 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
You might want to have another look at the thought process behind that there sentence. Those two things are not connected at all.
Finding comfort in being alone is an important skill.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 3:25 PM on May 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
I'm going to repeat what Mr. Yuck said: Finding comfort in being alone is an important skill.
You probably will not find "a stable community of friends that [you] can count on." At least, not in the way that you had when you were 8. As I age, I've found that healthy adult relationships are not really like that. Instead, my friends are disparate. I do not have a "gang" (like Archie and the Gang); I have friends. There's a difference. Groups of adults that do most things or everything together tend to be incredibly toxic, at least in my experience.
If you "really really really really really really really crave this kind of community" you are going to need to join a commune, or you're going to need to find a very insular work environment where everyone spends all of their social time outside of work together too, or do something along those lines. I think it is incredibly rare as we age to be part of a group like you describe. Unless you start a family with a partner who is really, really, attached to his or her family; then, the family becomes your group/community (and will likely have some toxic aspects to it as well).
Now, I am coming at this question as a person with my own experiences (like everyone that gives personal advice on the Internet) so I might just be flat-out wrong about this. There very may well be non-toxic, healthy communities/groups of adults who are happy together and who have what you seek. But I've never seen it or experienced it. Perhaps someone who has will be able to tell you how they found that group and what about it makes it non-toxic.
I had a friend who really wanted a "community" like you describe and she had some really serious issues. Narcissism was not one of them; she was a co-dependent in the true sense of the word. She hated being alone. Hated it. Being part of a community made it so that she never had to be by herself. She never had to be alone. But it was also incredibly toxic to be her friend, because she expected a constant companion, and that's just not possible for many mature adults. If you also have co-dependent tendencies, you may want to check out the book Codependent No More - it's a very helpful and insightful read.
posted by sockermom at 3:50 PM on May 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
You probably will not find "a stable community of friends that [you] can count on." At least, not in the way that you had when you were 8. As I age, I've found that healthy adult relationships are not really like that. Instead, my friends are disparate. I do not have a "gang" (like Archie and the Gang); I have friends. There's a difference. Groups of adults that do most things or everything together tend to be incredibly toxic, at least in my experience.
If you "really really really really really really really crave this kind of community" you are going to need to join a commune, or you're going to need to find a very insular work environment where everyone spends all of their social time outside of work together too, or do something along those lines. I think it is incredibly rare as we age to be part of a group like you describe. Unless you start a family with a partner who is really, really, attached to his or her family; then, the family becomes your group/community (and will likely have some toxic aspects to it as well).
Now, I am coming at this question as a person with my own experiences (like everyone that gives personal advice on the Internet) so I might just be flat-out wrong about this. There very may well be non-toxic, healthy communities/groups of adults who are happy together and who have what you seek. But I've never seen it or experienced it. Perhaps someone who has will be able to tell you how they found that group and what about it makes it non-toxic.
I had a friend who really wanted a "community" like you describe and she had some really serious issues. Narcissism was not one of them; she was a co-dependent in the true sense of the word. She hated being alone. Hated it. Being part of a community made it so that she never had to be by herself. She never had to be alone. But it was also incredibly toxic to be her friend, because she expected a constant companion, and that's just not possible for many mature adults. If you also have co-dependent tendencies, you may want to check out the book Codependent No More - it's a very helpful and insightful read.
posted by sockermom at 3:50 PM on May 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Mr Yuck, you know what, I already did and you're right, of course :) It's late where I am, gonna go ahead and blame it on that.
I have absolutely been able to find comfort in being alone. I definitely need my alone time, crowds make me anxious, etc. I'm just.... tired of it being my "all the time". I need to balance it out with some Being-With-People time. Otherwise I get so stuck in my own head that I start reading into things the wrong way. I get B-W-P-T here and there, but I have been amongst queer communities (for one example) where everyone seems to be all on the same page and I still somehow feel like an outsider, even though those should be 'my people.' In fact, there are tons of 'communities' that I should fit into, and for the past six years I have made every single effort to meet people in all sorts of different settings. I'm good at the initial meeting. I can make conversation with anyone. I just can't seem to forge any meaningful relationships after that. People are always too busy, or too cool, or too who-knows-what to be there in the same way.
I also start to understand what straight guys have been telling me my whole life: there is no such thing as a platonic relationship with a woman.
I'm starting to believe it. And I think that this might be one of the roots of my 'problem'- any time I actually like someone and start to form an actual relationship (again, platonic or otherwise), my mind starts to wander... am I attracted to this person? Could I be?? ...could they be attracted to me???! And then I feel like a total creep for making the situation sexual in my head, and then I probably start overcompensating for it somehow (for instance, acting like I maybe DON'T like them), and probably start acting weird, and maybe that's what turns people off/pushes them away... but see, I don't know, because all this has been in my head for so long and I might just be overdramatizing everything........
And just to clarify what I mean by community: I don't mean like a commune. Not people that I see every day or do everything with. Just people that I can consistently count upon to talk to, who want to have a conversation with me and don't mind if it goes on for three hours or more. People who can go to dinner and don't have to always rush off to something afterwards. People who can just hang out without it being something special or whatever. I sometimes feel like I am completely alone in the world. Like there's literally no one I could call up and just be like, 'hey, please talk to me.' I can do that with SOME people but I know they will only do it to be nice, not because we really have that kind of relationship.
My friends are disparate too. To the point where I have been away from people for about six years (being on opposite ends of the world), then suddenly had the chance to see them again and when we get together it's like no time has passed at all. What I'm trying to say is that I just want those people in my life all the time, and how come they're so hard to find? Maybe it's just my personality, but I find it so hard to click with people and it just so happens that when I do, they are never the people who are in my day-to-day (or at least week to week) life.
posted by otterboxdefender at 4:01 PM on May 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have absolutely been able to find comfort in being alone. I definitely need my alone time, crowds make me anxious, etc. I'm just.... tired of it being my "all the time". I need to balance it out with some Being-With-People time. Otherwise I get so stuck in my own head that I start reading into things the wrong way. I get B-W-P-T here and there, but I have been amongst queer communities (for one example) where everyone seems to be all on the same page and I still somehow feel like an outsider, even though those should be 'my people.' In fact, there are tons of 'communities' that I should fit into, and for the past six years I have made every single effort to meet people in all sorts of different settings. I'm good at the initial meeting. I can make conversation with anyone. I just can't seem to forge any meaningful relationships after that. People are always too busy, or too cool, or too who-knows-what to be there in the same way.
I also start to understand what straight guys have been telling me my whole life: there is no such thing as a platonic relationship with a woman.
I'm starting to believe it. And I think that this might be one of the roots of my 'problem'- any time I actually like someone and start to form an actual relationship (again, platonic or otherwise), my mind starts to wander... am I attracted to this person? Could I be?? ...could they be attracted to me???! And then I feel like a total creep for making the situation sexual in my head, and then I probably start overcompensating for it somehow (for instance, acting like I maybe DON'T like them), and probably start acting weird, and maybe that's what turns people off/pushes them away... but see, I don't know, because all this has been in my head for so long and I might just be overdramatizing everything........
And just to clarify what I mean by community: I don't mean like a commune. Not people that I see every day or do everything with. Just people that I can consistently count upon to talk to, who want to have a conversation with me and don't mind if it goes on for three hours or more. People who can go to dinner and don't have to always rush off to something afterwards. People who can just hang out without it being something special or whatever. I sometimes feel like I am completely alone in the world. Like there's literally no one I could call up and just be like, 'hey, please talk to me.' I can do that with SOME people but I know they will only do it to be nice, not because we really have that kind of relationship.
My friends are disparate too. To the point where I have been away from people for about six years (being on opposite ends of the world), then suddenly had the chance to see them again and when we get together it's like no time has passed at all. What I'm trying to say is that I just want those people in my life all the time, and how come they're so hard to find? Maybe it's just my personality, but I find it so hard to click with people and it just so happens that when I do, they are never the people who are in my day-to-day (or at least week to week) life.
posted by otterboxdefender at 4:01 PM on May 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Having known several people who were probably narcissists, and people in BPD/NPD territory who were actually diagnosed, if you think you might be a narcissist you aren't a narcissist. It's like thinking you're a sociopath.
"No one whose crazy thinks they're crazy" sounds like a trope, but it's pretty often true unless you're midway in to treatment(and even then)
That doesn't mean that you can't recognize negative behaviors you'd like to change... But are you a narcissist? No.
posted by emptythought at 4:03 PM on May 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
"No one whose crazy thinks they're crazy" sounds like a trope, but it's pretty often true unless you're midway in to treatment(and even then)
That doesn't mean that you can't recognize negative behaviors you'd like to change... But are you a narcissist? No.
posted by emptythought at 4:03 PM on May 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: (Thanks to everyone who replied. Even if I haven't replied directly I've read everything and appreciate all the thoughts.)
posted by otterboxdefender at 4:21 PM on May 7, 2015
posted by otterboxdefender at 4:21 PM on May 7, 2015
Agree with emptythought. You have insight, which would be unusual for someone with a true personality disorder.
And for the record I think most people with a normal self esteem are more attracted to people who are attracted to them. It's not narcissistic. Utilitarian, perhaps. You may have noticed that part of being a woman in our society is that we're not supposed to think we are good looking or accept compliments - if someone says "you look amazing!" Many women seem trained to respond with some kind of a disclaimer. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you ought to be self-deprecating.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 4:34 PM on May 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
And for the record I think most people with a normal self esteem are more attracted to people who are attracted to them. It's not narcissistic. Utilitarian, perhaps. You may have noticed that part of being a woman in our society is that we're not supposed to think we are good looking or accept compliments - if someone says "you look amazing!" Many women seem trained to respond with some kind of a disclaimer. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you ought to be self-deprecating.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 4:34 PM on May 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Actually narcissists are likely to self-identify as such, apparently.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:03 PM on May 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 6:03 PM on May 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
Just people that I can consistently count upon to talk to, who want to have a conversation with me and don't mind if it goes on for three hours or more. People who can go to dinner and don't have to always rush off to something afterwards. People who can just hang out without it being something special or whatever. I sometimes feel like I am completely alone in the world. Like there's literally no one I could call up and just be like, 'hey, please talk to me.'
I used to have these feelings. Some hard life experiences taught me that it is absolutely best to work to eliminate these feelings, which are totally natural and not abnormal, but can be very detrimental. My desire for closeness like you describe led me to make some seriously bad life choices, and I've now swung in the opposite direction and not only am I no longer like that, I steer clear from people who are.
This might sound harsh, but what you say you want really is a lot to ask for from others. The only person that I would ever call up and ask to talk to me because I felt alone? Is my therapist. There is not much that is "just" about what you describe - you're asking for something that most adults cannot or will not provide to other adults that they are friends with.
The friend I mentioned above wanted to spend three or four hours talking to me consistently, about every month. Three hours is a lot of time. If you work for 8 hours a day and sleep for another 8, you've only got 8 hours left to get everything else done: eating, showering, exercising, cleaning, reading metafilter... To ask that someone consistently be there for three hours - sort of in an on-call fashion - unfortunately isn't realistic or reasonable. Perhaps a romantic partner will do that, but even then, it may be too much to ask of another person. I will gladly spend three hours gabbing with someone, but not if its a lopsided situation where it's expected of me. Too many friends have told me that I am like a therapist, but friends are not therapists. They are friends. A therapist is what you want if you want to talk to someone on-call for three hours, especially if the reason is that you feel completely alone in the world.
Feeling that kind of loneliness is not someone else's problem to solve and it never should be, unless you are paying them to help you solve it yourself (e.g. therapy). Anyone who does solve that problem for you is likely to be codependent. I really think that therapy and that working on your loneliness/your desire to not be alone will be very helpful for you. Now when I feel lonely and weird I just reach for my knitting or my cat or I go out to a coffee place or I listen to music or something, rather than reaching out to people to help me erase those feelings. Asking for other people to fill this role in your life is going to leave you wanting. I really think that spending time alone and being ok with being lonely are not the same thing, and that working on that second one will be very fruitful for you. Best of luck.
posted by sockermom at 9:26 PM on May 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I used to have these feelings. Some hard life experiences taught me that it is absolutely best to work to eliminate these feelings, which are totally natural and not abnormal, but can be very detrimental. My desire for closeness like you describe led me to make some seriously bad life choices, and I've now swung in the opposite direction and not only am I no longer like that, I steer clear from people who are.
This might sound harsh, but what you say you want really is a lot to ask for from others. The only person that I would ever call up and ask to talk to me because I felt alone? Is my therapist. There is not much that is "just" about what you describe - you're asking for something that most adults cannot or will not provide to other adults that they are friends with.
The friend I mentioned above wanted to spend three or four hours talking to me consistently, about every month. Three hours is a lot of time. If you work for 8 hours a day and sleep for another 8, you've only got 8 hours left to get everything else done: eating, showering, exercising, cleaning, reading metafilter... To ask that someone consistently be there for three hours - sort of in an on-call fashion - unfortunately isn't realistic or reasonable. Perhaps a romantic partner will do that, but even then, it may be too much to ask of another person. I will gladly spend three hours gabbing with someone, but not if its a lopsided situation where it's expected of me. Too many friends have told me that I am like a therapist, but friends are not therapists. They are friends. A therapist is what you want if you want to talk to someone on-call for three hours, especially if the reason is that you feel completely alone in the world.
Feeling that kind of loneliness is not someone else's problem to solve and it never should be, unless you are paying them to help you solve it yourself (e.g. therapy). Anyone who does solve that problem for you is likely to be codependent. I really think that therapy and that working on your loneliness/your desire to not be alone will be very helpful for you. Now when I feel lonely and weird I just reach for my knitting or my cat or I go out to a coffee place or I listen to music or something, rather than reaching out to people to help me erase those feelings. Asking for other people to fill this role in your life is going to leave you wanting. I really think that spending time alone and being ok with being lonely are not the same thing, and that working on that second one will be very fruitful for you. Best of luck.
posted by sockermom at 9:26 PM on May 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think this is pretty normal human behavior and not something to worry about. Here's another way to look at it: If someone clearly dislikes you, do you reflexively dislike them too? If I know someone doesn't like me, then fuck them, I don't like them either. If someone is attracted to me, there's a better chance I'll find myself attracted to them. I think it's pretty normal.
You mention that you are gay -- could it have more to do with the fact that a woman attracted to you is clearly gay, and not so much about the actual attraction? I am also a gay lady and I have zero interest in straight women whatsoever. Just knowing a woman is gay would make her more attractive to me than she would be otherwise if I assumed she was straight. I may still not be attracted to her at all, but if I think she's straight, there's not even a chance really.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:14 PM on May 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
You mention that you are gay -- could it have more to do with the fact that a woman attracted to you is clearly gay, and not so much about the actual attraction? I am also a gay lady and I have zero interest in straight women whatsoever. Just knowing a woman is gay would make her more attractive to me than she would be otherwise if I assumed she was straight. I may still not be attracted to her at all, but if I think she's straight, there's not even a chance really.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:14 PM on May 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
And I think that this might be one of the roots of my 'problem'- any time I actually like someone and start to form an actual relationship (again, platonic or otherwise), my mind starts to wander... am I attracted to this person? Could I be?? ...could they be attracted to me???! And then I feel like a total creep for making the situation sexual in my head, and then I probably start overcompensating for it somehow (for instance, acting like I maybe DON'T like them), and probably start acting weird,
This sounds a bit like anxiety to me, mixed with maybe a little bit of overthinking/wrong trackedness about how attraction works.
I might get some guff for this, but if you have to ask yourself "am I attracted to this person? Could I be?" the answer is You're Not. You might be one day, but it won't be because you thought about it. And you're spinning your intellectual wheels without any connection to the engine that is your sex drive.
Your body will tell you when you're attracted to someone. It won't stop telling you and it might come as a complete surprise because it might not fit your intellectualized idea of who you expected to be attracted to.
To use a different metaphor - you meet someone and, it sounds like, you immediately start writing them into the movie of your life, you're busy writing a script on the fly in your head, and then you're not present and engaged with the actual person. They're probably not creeped out by it, just - you know - it's like you're checking your phone during a conversation, or watching The Movie Of Your Life.
It is a condition that many if us find ourselves in, because we grew up in the modern era where we're encouraged to talk to the voices put in our heads by marketers.
Don't intellectually try to force attraction
The next time you ask yourself "am I attracted to this person?" The answer is "Not today! Nothing on my to-do list there!" Then rejoin your friendly conversation.
posted by vitabellosi at 3:37 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
This sounds a bit like anxiety to me, mixed with maybe a little bit of overthinking/wrong trackedness about how attraction works.
I might get some guff for this, but if you have to ask yourself "am I attracted to this person? Could I be?" the answer is You're Not. You might be one day, but it won't be because you thought about it. And you're spinning your intellectual wheels without any connection to the engine that is your sex drive.
Your body will tell you when you're attracted to someone. It won't stop telling you and it might come as a complete surprise because it might not fit your intellectualized idea of who you expected to be attracted to.
To use a different metaphor - you meet someone and, it sounds like, you immediately start writing them into the movie of your life, you're busy writing a script on the fly in your head, and then you're not present and engaged with the actual person. They're probably not creeped out by it, just - you know - it's like you're checking your phone during a conversation, or watching The Movie Of Your Life.
It is a condition that many if us find ourselves in, because we grew up in the modern era where we're encouraged to talk to the voices put in our heads by marketers.
Don't intellectually try to force attraction
The next time you ask yourself "am I attracted to this person?" The answer is "Not today! Nothing on my to-do list there!" Then rejoin your friendly conversation.
posted by vitabellosi at 3:37 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I spent a few hours last weekend reading some old journal entries from when I was around your age, and your concerns echo a lot of those I had. I was finishing college and felt like I didn't have a community of friends I could depend on, and although I'm essentially an introvert who needs a lot of alone time, I felt quite lonely. I also had a lot of anxiety (I still do).
What helped was...I don't know, life? I met people I liked through jobs and relationships and with the passage of time (and some effort, I'm sure, but not that super-over-thinking, "Will this person like me? Will they like me TOO MUCH? Will I like them? Will I like them TOO MUCH? If so, how will I handle it???" kind of effort), and things just sort of fell into place. I really think what helped me during that period (and it's still something I work on) was going to therapy to help me get outside my head a bit, and learning to relax and let things be without having to analyze everything all the time.
Sometimes we're our own worst enemies, and if we can relax our need for control and understanding a bit, things just get easier. I seriously doubt you're a narcissist. It sounds like you're coping with a lot of change, and having trouble integrating the new parts of you with the old. Total askmefi cliche, but therapy could be useful, or some mindfulness books (like this one: http://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1570623449/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431106339&sr=1-1&keywords=when+things+fall+apart ) that might help put things in perspective for you a bit.
posted by odayoday at 10:32 AM on May 8, 2015
What helped was...I don't know, life? I met people I liked through jobs and relationships and with the passage of time (and some effort, I'm sure, but not that super-over-thinking, "Will this person like me? Will they like me TOO MUCH? Will I like them? Will I like them TOO MUCH? If so, how will I handle it???" kind of effort), and things just sort of fell into place. I really think what helped me during that period (and it's still something I work on) was going to therapy to help me get outside my head a bit, and learning to relax and let things be without having to analyze everything all the time.
Sometimes we're our own worst enemies, and if we can relax our need for control and understanding a bit, things just get easier. I seriously doubt you're a narcissist. It sounds like you're coping with a lot of change, and having trouble integrating the new parts of you with the old. Total askmefi cliche, but therapy could be useful, or some mindfulness books (like this one: http://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1570623449/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431106339&sr=1-1&keywords=when+things+fall+apart ) that might help put things in perspective for you a bit.
posted by odayoday at 10:32 AM on May 8, 2015
3 hours is a lot of time to spend with someone as a friend. Perhaps if that's what you're looking for, you could focus on your side of contributions, and how to make others enjoy spending three hours with you? A lot of it's going to be luck, but reflecting back on why old friends would spend three hours with you can help.
As for the sexual indications, do you have some sexual/relationship/marital plan involved that you don't want to ruin? If not, it sounds like you're being overly self-conscious about not being a creep, and you don't sound like one.
Good luck!
posted by halifix at 4:05 PM on May 8, 2015
As for the sexual indications, do you have some sexual/relationship/marital plan involved that you don't want to ruin? If not, it sounds like you're being overly self-conscious about not being a creep, and you don't sound like one.
Good luck!
posted by halifix at 4:05 PM on May 8, 2015
If you think you might be a narcissist you are probably not one. True narcissists I have known think they are perfect and wonderful and it is everyone else that has something wrong with them. You are just young and going through the usual insecurity of your age. You sound like a kind and thoughtful person, not a narcissist at all. It will get better.
posted by mermayd at 3:44 AM on May 9, 2015
posted by mermayd at 3:44 AM on May 9, 2015
At risk of sounding judgmental, replying on your own thread after only 4 comments with a followup that is almost as long as the sum of responses to that point can look a little narcissistic. I am not trying to be mean or humorous- do you find you are a good listener in face to face interactions in your life? This could be a reason why, as you have pointed out, many of your relationships never grow very much.
Also, your conceptual framework of the nature of relationships and connecting with others seems quite problematic from some of your statements in your original question.
And as much as I get comments on my appearance, I somehow still have trouble forming strong relationships.
Forming strong relationships has nothing to do with appearance.
You wrote this:
one day I realized I could choose happiness and flicked the switch. From then on though, I've been able to revel in compliments and comments on how good I look, etc. Is this narcissism or just healthy self-loving?
In a parallel dimension, it could have been this:
one day I realized I could choose happiness and flicked the switch. From then on, I challenged all of the things I used to hate about myself and eventually started to discover a person inside that I really love. I've been able to revel in my new self and the beauty in the world around me for the first time. Is this narcissism or just healthy self-loving?
Now, which sounds like narcissism and which like healthy self-loving?
posted by incolorinred at 8:40 PM on May 12, 2015
Also, your conceptual framework of the nature of relationships and connecting with others seems quite problematic from some of your statements in your original question.
And as much as I get comments on my appearance, I somehow still have trouble forming strong relationships.
Forming strong relationships has nothing to do with appearance.
You wrote this:
one day I realized I could choose happiness and flicked the switch. From then on though, I've been able to revel in compliments and comments on how good I look, etc. Is this narcissism or just healthy self-loving?
In a parallel dimension, it could have been this:
one day I realized I could choose happiness and flicked the switch. From then on, I challenged all of the things I used to hate about myself and eventually started to discover a person inside that I really love. I've been able to revel in my new self and the beauty in the world around me for the first time. Is this narcissism or just healthy self-loving?
Now, which sounds like narcissism and which like healthy self-loving?
posted by incolorinred at 8:40 PM on May 12, 2015
Response by poster: @incolorinred:
I can be a good listener. It is just *really* hard. I can force myself to listen to people if I need to (i.e. in a meeting or something) but overall, unfortunately, I find that I'm just bored with most people. I don't know how to get around this one. It's not about how I love myself so much I find everyone boring by comparison. It's simply that I find most people boring (whether in comparison or not.) Maybe I should amend my original question to... WHY. Why am I bored by everyone and everything (nearly). Is it possible that I'm repressing something? Could there be some level of lying to myself that is causing this? I don't know. I really don't know.
I don't see how responding after only 4 posts from other people is a problem though. Can you explain why this looks narcissistic? I crave answers and new thoughts because I'm stuck in my own head, and people are responding. I've been to individual therapy, to group therapy, none of it ever helps like I want it to. And unfortunately I'm not in a position to go to therapy at the moment (financially and just life-situation wise, unless someone has a great, cheap online option they can recommend.) I joined here because I need some sort of outlet to get objective thoughts (so, many thanks for yours, really, it's really helpful.)
Not trying to be sarcastic, did you see the reply where I addressed how I know that what I said regarding appearance and relationships doesn't make sense? I knew that without anyone pointing it out, it just came out wrong. The 'backstory' is always in my head but some things are bound to get skipped over because in my head they're a given.
posted by otterboxdefender at 12:36 PM on May 15, 2015
I can be a good listener. It is just *really* hard. I can force myself to listen to people if I need to (i.e. in a meeting or something) but overall, unfortunately, I find that I'm just bored with most people. I don't know how to get around this one. It's not about how I love myself so much I find everyone boring by comparison. It's simply that I find most people boring (whether in comparison or not.) Maybe I should amend my original question to... WHY. Why am I bored by everyone and everything (nearly). Is it possible that I'm repressing something? Could there be some level of lying to myself that is causing this? I don't know. I really don't know.
I don't see how responding after only 4 posts from other people is a problem though. Can you explain why this looks narcissistic? I crave answers and new thoughts because I'm stuck in my own head, and people are responding. I've been to individual therapy, to group therapy, none of it ever helps like I want it to. And unfortunately I'm not in a position to go to therapy at the moment (financially and just life-situation wise, unless someone has a great, cheap online option they can recommend.) I joined here because I need some sort of outlet to get objective thoughts (so, many thanks for yours, really, it's really helpful.)
Not trying to be sarcastic, did you see the reply where I addressed how I know that what I said regarding appearance and relationships doesn't make sense? I knew that without anyone pointing it out, it just came out wrong. The 'backstory' is always in my head but some things are bound to get skipped over because in my head they're a given.
posted by otterboxdefender at 12:36 PM on May 15, 2015
Hello otterbox, no, I regretfully missed your response regarding appearances and I'm sorry I didn't have the full context when originally responding. I completely understand how hard it is to get all of the relevant things out when talking about such complicated topics.
Regarding listening and boredom: I suppose I just kind of extrapolated your response length to what that we be like in a verbal discussion with a close friend- you ask a long complex question, a few points are made, and then you quickly follow up with a lot of information. In that case, the friend could feel more like a sounding board than an active participant. I should have chosen words more carefully- it isn't necessarily narcissistic or doesn't necessarily come from a bad place or personality defect (ie some people are just really talkative, expressive, into sharing etc.) Listening can be hard for some personality types, again not necessarily a pathological thing, I think it can be something everyone can work on and is certainly a necessary component in relationships.
In terms of boredom, I wouldn't worry about that so much. I don't think you have to be so hard on yourself and put so much pressure on yourself to find complete fulfillment in every instance you interaction with someone- it is simply not realistic nor possible really. You are who you are and you can't control what or who appeals to you. What you can control though, are your expectations and mindset. There is something called a "confirmation bias" which is a natural human tendency. It is basically that we can sometimes fall into the trap of only being receptive to data that confirms our previously held views or expectations. Try to see how much of your perception of other people's uninterestingness is your frustration of past disappointments ("ohhh here we go again, another boring person") and how much is genuinely "this person doesn't have enough of the things I want." There may not be anything wrong with you and therapy not necessarily in order. Take the pressure off yourself, try to enter every situation and date with an open mind, and take the pleasant surprises as a bonus and the disappointments as just part of doing business- not a reflection on you. It can take time to find people you connect with! It will happen! All the best to you.
P.S. the fact you are exercising an effort to gain personal insight is a big piece of evidence against you being a narcissist! Personal growth and insight just takes time, and hopefully a continual process :)
posted by incolorinred at 4:00 PM on May 15, 2015
Regarding listening and boredom: I suppose I just kind of extrapolated your response length to what that we be like in a verbal discussion with a close friend- you ask a long complex question, a few points are made, and then you quickly follow up with a lot of information. In that case, the friend could feel more like a sounding board than an active participant. I should have chosen words more carefully- it isn't necessarily narcissistic or doesn't necessarily come from a bad place or personality defect (ie some people are just really talkative, expressive, into sharing etc.) Listening can be hard for some personality types, again not necessarily a pathological thing, I think it can be something everyone can work on and is certainly a necessary component in relationships.
In terms of boredom, I wouldn't worry about that so much. I don't think you have to be so hard on yourself and put so much pressure on yourself to find complete fulfillment in every instance you interaction with someone- it is simply not realistic nor possible really. You are who you are and you can't control what or who appeals to you. What you can control though, are your expectations and mindset. There is something called a "confirmation bias" which is a natural human tendency. It is basically that we can sometimes fall into the trap of only being receptive to data that confirms our previously held views or expectations. Try to see how much of your perception of other people's uninterestingness is your frustration of past disappointments ("ohhh here we go again, another boring person") and how much is genuinely "this person doesn't have enough of the things I want." There may not be anything wrong with you and therapy not necessarily in order. Take the pressure off yourself, try to enter every situation and date with an open mind, and take the pleasant surprises as a bonus and the disappointments as just part of doing business- not a reflection on you. It can take time to find people you connect with! It will happen! All the best to you.
P.S. the fact you are exercising an effort to gain personal insight is a big piece of evidence against you being a narcissist! Personal growth and insight just takes time, and hopefully a continual process :)
posted by incolorinred at 4:00 PM on May 15, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for the really thoughtful replies. I don't know if this is resolved but I definitely got a lot of good food for thought.
posted by otterboxdefender at 2:02 PM on June 13, 2015
posted by otterboxdefender at 2:02 PM on June 13, 2015
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posted by parmanparman at 3:00 PM on May 7, 2015