Should I give him an ultimatum?
April 19, 2015 5:40 PM Subscribe
My boyfriend of 10 months has hit some personal rough patches, that have created some rough spots in our relationship. At this point, this I've decided what are the deal breakers for me in this relationship but he doesn't know that. Should I tell him or would that be an ultimatum?
This is kind of a long one.
I've been dating my current for boyfriend for about 10 months now. Things were really great in the beginning but over the past few months the fire has died down a little on my side. About 4 months ago he lost his job. At the time I was not very pleased, having an employed partner is very important to me, but the job was dead-end and the schedule was inconvenient so I wasn't too upset about it. Prior to losing this job he'd been searching for several months and despite his college degree couldn't find anything in his field.
He searched pretty heavily during the first two or so months, we re-did his resume, started volunteering and worked with a local career center. Still no luck. A part of me is starting to think that maybe he's incapable of getting something but I realize that I may be biased because I do have job in my field and never had the struggle he has with job searching. I know the economy isn't great and lots of people are un or underemployed, so this is why I think I may be biased.
After those 2 months, he got depressed and all but stopped searching. This was a rough spot for our relationship, I am fairly ambitious and motivation in men is really attractive to me, so when he lost his it really dampened the fires a bit and caused a lot of arguments and frustration. I agreed to let up on him about the job search and let him handle it without my checking in all the time.
However, this is still a big issue to me. I have always had it my head that I'd give him 6 months, which i figured was reasonable for a job search, to pull it together and get a job. We are 25 and 26, so although we're young I feel employment is a key component of a partner at this point in my life. He's started up a job search again but I have the feeling that it's a fairly weak search at best. Hes currently more focused on pursuing a musical career but i feel loke tyat should be #2 or #3 on his list. I know his feelings are just as strong for me as they have ever been and I still love him but I feel like if his situation doesn't change, it will be to me a major red flag, plus I won't be able to respect him and thus will have to move on. He's otherwise a good guy, sweet, caring and very devoted but this is one of my standards I won't budge on.
Here's the question, should I tell him that I have a time set for how long it takes him to get a job in order to continue our relationship? Or should I just tell him that it'd be a dealbreaker?( If he has trouble and lack of motivation I can't imagine what'd it be like if we had kids and a mortgage.) I feel like this would be an ultimatum, which I don't like the idea of doing, I think people should provide their own motivation, however, I feel that in some form or another we should discuss our dealbreakers. Any suggestions?
This is kind of a long one.
I've been dating my current for boyfriend for about 10 months now. Things were really great in the beginning but over the past few months the fire has died down a little on my side. About 4 months ago he lost his job. At the time I was not very pleased, having an employed partner is very important to me, but the job was dead-end and the schedule was inconvenient so I wasn't too upset about it. Prior to losing this job he'd been searching for several months and despite his college degree couldn't find anything in his field.
He searched pretty heavily during the first two or so months, we re-did his resume, started volunteering and worked with a local career center. Still no luck. A part of me is starting to think that maybe he's incapable of getting something but I realize that I may be biased because I do have job in my field and never had the struggle he has with job searching. I know the economy isn't great and lots of people are un or underemployed, so this is why I think I may be biased.
After those 2 months, he got depressed and all but stopped searching. This was a rough spot for our relationship, I am fairly ambitious and motivation in men is really attractive to me, so when he lost his it really dampened the fires a bit and caused a lot of arguments and frustration. I agreed to let up on him about the job search and let him handle it without my checking in all the time.
However, this is still a big issue to me. I have always had it my head that I'd give him 6 months, which i figured was reasonable for a job search, to pull it together and get a job. We are 25 and 26, so although we're young I feel employment is a key component of a partner at this point in my life. He's started up a job search again but I have the feeling that it's a fairly weak search at best. Hes currently more focused on pursuing a musical career but i feel loke tyat should be #2 or #3 on his list. I know his feelings are just as strong for me as they have ever been and I still love him but I feel like if his situation doesn't change, it will be to me a major red flag, plus I won't be able to respect him and thus will have to move on. He's otherwise a good guy, sweet, caring and very devoted but this is one of my standards I won't budge on.
Here's the question, should I tell him that I have a time set for how long it takes him to get a job in order to continue our relationship? Or should I just tell him that it'd be a dealbreaker?( If he has trouble and lack of motivation I can't imagine what'd it be like if we had kids and a mortgage.) I feel like this would be an ultimatum, which I don't like the idea of doing, I think people should provide their own motivation, however, I feel that in some form or another we should discuss our dealbreakers. Any suggestions?
Sounds like you should just move on. Don't get into the ultimatum, don't place conditions on your relationship continuing. If he turns things around when you're both still single, you can consider another go of it. But now? End it.
posted by jayder at 5:48 PM on April 19, 2015
posted by jayder at 5:48 PM on April 19, 2015
I feel like if his situation doesn't change, it will be to me a major red flag, plus I won't be able to respect him and thus will have to move on.
It seems as if it's already a major red flag for you and that you already don't respect him. (That's fine.) You wish he would change and you don't want to give up. The time limit is a device that you're putting on yourself to help you make the decision.
If you feel that you can change his outlook on life just by talking to him, you should definitely talk to him. But don't set it up as an ultimatum. Even if it works, it will warp the dynamic of your relationship.
posted by the jam at 5:55 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
It seems as if it's already a major red flag for you and that you already don't respect him. (That's fine.) You wish he would change and you don't want to give up. The time limit is a device that you're putting on yourself to help you make the decision.
If you feel that you can change his outlook on life just by talking to him, you should definitely talk to him. But don't set it up as an ultimatum. Even if it works, it will warp the dynamic of your relationship.
posted by the jam at 5:55 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
You get to decide what's important to you in a partner. But you can't control him or his job search and he can't control the economic conditions those happen in, and to conflate the two and lay it on him is unfair. He may or may not find the motivation you deem appropriate and luck out finding a job. You can only decide how long you're willing to help him out or devote time to a relationship that doesn't work for you. "You're a good and caring guy, but I don't think we're a good fit long term. I wish you the best."
posted by cocoagirl at 5:57 PM on April 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by cocoagirl at 5:57 PM on April 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
If something as minor as this has caused your fire to die down then I think you need to be with someone much luckier and more privileged and with continual assured security. Also, it makes no difference where you think his desire to pursue a music career should rank. You are clearly not compatible.
posted by Blitz at 6:04 PM on April 19, 2015 [38 favorites]
posted by Blitz at 6:04 PM on April 19, 2015 [38 favorites]
I was totally with you up until this:
Hes currently more focused on pursuing a musical career but i feel loke tyat should be #2 or #3 on his list.
You absolutely have every right to decide that another person's priorities don't match yours. That means saying "we don't share the same priorities so let's split up."
What you're considering, though, is choosing his priorities for him: "we don't share the same priorities so you need to change yours." You absolutely do not get to do that. You also really don't want to.
posted by headnsouth at 6:14 PM on April 19, 2015 [72 favorites]
Hes currently more focused on pursuing a musical career but i feel loke tyat should be #2 or #3 on his list.
You absolutely have every right to decide that another person's priorities don't match yours. That means saying "we don't share the same priorities so let's split up."
What you're considering, though, is choosing his priorities for him: "we don't share the same priorities so you need to change yours." You absolutely do not get to do that. You also really don't want to.
posted by headnsouth at 6:14 PM on April 19, 2015 [72 favorites]
I have to think that he already knows that things have reached an ultimatum stage, even if you haven't said so explicitly: that he understands already that his getting/having a job is very important to you and that you are frustrated / unhappy / skeptical / respect him less / disagree with his priorities / find him less attractive as things are right now.
If he got a job today, how much of your worry would disappear vs. how much worry you'd hold onto about his true level of ambition/motivation, particularly when you try to picture your future together with kids and a mortgage? How much of that worry would you feel like you needed to stifle, as it sounds like you've been doing with "agreeing to let up on him"--despite how strong your concerns have been--in the past two months?
My sense is that the proverbial deal has already been broken for you, but that you're trying to be kind (or otherwise "low-maintenance") with the additional (arbitrary) two more months you're mentally planning to give him. I wouldn't want to be in this relationship in his shoes OR in yours, given what you've described about what your true feelings and values are now. I think the comments above are right-on that you two are just not the right fit for one another, and that there's little benefit in delaying what seems to be the inevitable.
posted by argonauta at 6:15 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
If he got a job today, how much of your worry would disappear vs. how much worry you'd hold onto about his true level of ambition/motivation, particularly when you try to picture your future together with kids and a mortgage? How much of that worry would you feel like you needed to stifle, as it sounds like you've been doing with "agreeing to let up on him"--despite how strong your concerns have been--in the past two months?
My sense is that the proverbial deal has already been broken for you, but that you're trying to be kind (or otherwise "low-maintenance") with the additional (arbitrary) two more months you're mentally planning to give him. I wouldn't want to be in this relationship in his shoes OR in yours, given what you've described about what your true feelings and values are now. I think the comments above are right-on that you two are just not the right fit for one another, and that there's little benefit in delaying what seems to be the inevitable.
posted by argonauta at 6:15 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
You say that motivation in men is really important to you and that your boyfriend is more interested in pursuing a musical career. That is motivation - just maybe one you don't agree with or think will lead to a good living. If you want to be with a man that is pursuing a good living, then you should be with that kind of a man. It sounds like you have different values right now. So I wouldn't tell him about the six month deadline in your head but I would have another serious discussion about what you find important in a partner.
posted by gt2 at 6:17 PM on April 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by gt2 at 6:17 PM on April 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
having an employed partner is very important to me
motivation in men is really attractive to me
I feel employment is a key component of a partner at this point in my life
Well, this is unambiguous. I can't say I get it, but you're allowed to have whatever dealbreakers you want.
Frankly, as you hint, you do come across more than a little "biased" about the issue. You come across a bit ignorant about long-term unemployment, thinking it's some sort of character flaw. But again, if employment is this important to you, then please do let him go.
I won't be able to respect him
Setting an ultimatum is not going to change the job market; this is cruel. Let him go now, you've already lost respect for him.
posted by kapers at 6:25 PM on April 19, 2015 [31 favorites]
motivation in men is really attractive to me
I feel employment is a key component of a partner at this point in my life
Well, this is unambiguous. I can't say I get it, but you're allowed to have whatever dealbreakers you want.
Frankly, as you hint, you do come across more than a little "biased" about the issue. You come across a bit ignorant about long-term unemployment, thinking it's some sort of character flaw. But again, if employment is this important to you, then please do let him go.
I won't be able to respect him
Setting an ultimatum is not going to change the job market; this is cruel. Let him go now, you've already lost respect for him.
posted by kapers at 6:25 PM on April 19, 2015 [31 favorites]
I have to observe that "pursuing a musical career" when you can't get a job sounds to me like an excuse. Even if he is pursuing his musical career 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, which you don't say he is, "pursuing a musical career" is not something that solves the employment problem. Like writing, it is something you do on the side until people pay you enough to survive on, unless you have a spouse who is willing to float you until the magic happens. Which could be one year, ten years, or never.
However, you don't want to be the girlfriend who doesn't believe in his music. That way lies resentment. He will stick with you because you have a paycheck, but he will hate you.
I don't see this working out.
posted by musofire at 6:27 PM on April 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
However, you don't want to be the girlfriend who doesn't believe in his music. That way lies resentment. He will stick with you because you have a paycheck, but he will hate you.
I don't see this working out.
posted by musofire at 6:27 PM on April 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
Honestly it sounds like you've been over him for a while now.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:38 PM on April 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:38 PM on April 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
Eh, I don't think you have much to gain by telling him now that it's a dealbreaker. It sounds to me like you want someone self-motivated, so if you give him the ultimatum and he gets a job next week, are you truly going to be satisfied? This seems more like a wait and see situation.
I do know someone who gave her boyfriend an ultimatum about the job hunt, and it seemed to light the fire underneath to stop coasting. However, I don't think it bothers her so much that he needed someone to light the fire for him.
posted by stowaway at 6:43 PM on April 19, 2015
I do know someone who gave her boyfriend an ultimatum about the job hunt, and it seemed to light the fire underneath to stop coasting. However, I don't think it bothers her so much that he needed someone to light the fire for him.
posted by stowaway at 6:43 PM on April 19, 2015
After those 2 months, he got depressed and all but stopped searching. This was a rough spot for our relationship, I am fairly ambitious and motivation in men is really attractive to me, so when he lost his it really dampened the fires a bit and caused a lot of arguments and frustration.... I feel like if his situation doesn't change, it will be to me a major red flag, plus I won't be able to respect him and thus will have to move on.
OK, it seems obvious that this relationship isn't working out. I mean, is this the best you can do? You don't seem to think so. You're probably like most women in not wanting to date someone who's unemployed — and he's not just unemployed, but also doesn't seem very motivated to change the situation. This seems like one of those AskMetafilter questions where you already know the answer and just want our permission to act on it. So, I hereby give you permission to break up with him.
posted by John Cohen at 6:46 PM on April 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
OK, it seems obvious that this relationship isn't working out. I mean, is this the best you can do? You don't seem to think so. You're probably like most women in not wanting to date someone who's unemployed — and he's not just unemployed, but also doesn't seem very motivated to change the situation. This seems like one of those AskMetafilter questions where you already know the answer and just want our permission to act on it. So, I hereby give you permission to break up with him.
posted by John Cohen at 6:46 PM on April 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm betting he's getting more into music at least partly to recuperate some of his confidence, which I would guess has been in the toilet for a while. It is objectively harder for people who are out of work to get a toehold, because there's bias against them, not because they are without value. Job searching while being unemployed is hard to sustain perfectly consistently - there are going to be natural dips in motivation after weeks or months of effort with no result (and that is very common these days, it's not necessarily about him). At some point, when he feels a little better about himself, he is more than likely going to reprioritize and get back to it, probably with some tweaks in direction or focus.
If you are not able to be with him through this (extremely common) story, you shouldn't be, it's unfair - just leave, no ultimatum.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:47 PM on April 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
If you are not able to be with him through this (extremely common) story, you shouldn't be, it's unfair - just leave, no ultimatum.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:47 PM on April 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
Well, clearly you're not going to be there in sickness and in health for this guy someday, because right now you don't want to be there for him in unemployment. You've already lost respect for him, so you might as well leave. Sucks that the ONLY reason you'd break up with him is his lack of job, but that's more important to you than anything else he has to offer, so.
Look, it takes people 2-3 YEARS to find jobs nowadays, yes, "even with a college degree." Even with two and a job, I have managed to snag one damn job interview a year for the last few years and there was always someone better than me and I don't qualify for much in the first place. So even as someone who got burned out by having a perpetually semi-unemployed broke boyfriend (and I get your pain about it! It drove me nuts! I would probably be freaking too if I were you.), it really isn't up to him. Yeah, he could be pushing harder, but even if he was applying at 50 places a day that doesn't mean he'll get picked for them. I guess what I'm saying here is that it seems a bit unfair to pull an ultimatum or dump him for this. I do think you sound like you are being a snob/unfair about how hard it is to get one, honestly. If you lost your job tomorrow, well... almost everyone cannot find another job soon these days and unless you're a freaking superstar, you probably would still be unemployed after a mere four months too.
But.... you can dump a guy for having the wrong color eyes if you like. You can dump a guy for anything, including losing your respect for him and no longer wanting to be with him because he has no job. If your love for him is contingent on him being employed, period, then you'd better go now and find a fellow high-powered superstar to date, and that guy better hope he never loses his job.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:08 PM on April 19, 2015 [38 favorites]
Look, it takes people 2-3 YEARS to find jobs nowadays, yes, "even with a college degree." Even with two and a job, I have managed to snag one damn job interview a year for the last few years and there was always someone better than me and I don't qualify for much in the first place. So even as someone who got burned out by having a perpetually semi-unemployed broke boyfriend (and I get your pain about it! It drove me nuts! I would probably be freaking too if I were you.), it really isn't up to him. Yeah, he could be pushing harder, but even if he was applying at 50 places a day that doesn't mean he'll get picked for them. I guess what I'm saying here is that it seems a bit unfair to pull an ultimatum or dump him for this. I do think you sound like you are being a snob/unfair about how hard it is to get one, honestly. If you lost your job tomorrow, well... almost everyone cannot find another job soon these days and unless you're a freaking superstar, you probably would still be unemployed after a mere four months too.
But.... you can dump a guy for having the wrong color eyes if you like. You can dump a guy for anything, including losing your respect for him and no longer wanting to be with him because he has no job. If your love for him is contingent on him being employed, period, then you'd better go now and find a fellow high-powered superstar to date, and that guy better hope he never loses his job.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:08 PM on April 19, 2015 [38 favorites]
Well, here is the thing: I don't think there is any way to articulate your position and emphasize how important regular employment is to you without it coming across as an ultimatum, even if that isn't your intention. Taking on the role of his career coach will likely devolve into you taking on the role of nag and then the role of his parent. Nothing good can come from that. For either of you.
I think you should end it now--there is no point making yourself crazy by watching him flounder. Tell him you care about him and you wish him well, but his lack of employment is too much of a stressor on your young relationship. Perhaps the break-up will light a fire for him, but don't count on it or hold reconciliation over his head.
And ignore those above who are harsh in their judgement of you: It is one thing to dump a partner of five years who is doing everything possible to find a new job; it is something else to break up with a partner of less than a year who is not making the job search a priority.
posted by girl flaneur at 7:16 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think you should end it now--there is no point making yourself crazy by watching him flounder. Tell him you care about him and you wish him well, but his lack of employment is too much of a stressor on your young relationship. Perhaps the break-up will light a fire for him, but don't count on it or hold reconciliation over his head.
And ignore those above who are harsh in their judgement of you: It is one thing to dump a partner of five years who is doing everything possible to find a new job; it is something else to break up with a partner of less than a year who is not making the job search a priority.
posted by girl flaneur at 7:16 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm a bit confused, and i think there's something you need to clarify here.
Are you supporting him? Does he having savings he's tapping into?
Being unemployed, and being unemployed and broke are two different things. Is he getting unemployment? Did he get severance? Support from family?
I think this is a very different situation if you're supporting him Vs if he's still supporting himself with his own money or at least contributing money in some way.
Because at that point, it becomes a social stigma "eww, i don't want to be with an unemployed loser" thing.
posted by emptythought at 7:44 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Are you supporting him? Does he having savings he's tapping into?
Being unemployed, and being unemployed and broke are two different things. Is he getting unemployment? Did he get severance? Support from family?
I think this is a very different situation if you're supporting him Vs if he's still supporting himself with his own money or at least contributing money in some way.
Because at that point, it becomes a social stigma "eww, i don't want to be with an unemployed loser" thing.
posted by emptythought at 7:44 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Job searching while being unemployed is hard to sustain perfectly consistently - there are going to be natural dips in motivation after weeks or months of effort with no result (and that is very common these days, it's not necessarily about him).
In fact, dips in motivation are not "natural". They are the result of an ideology that promotes a belief that whether or not one finds a job is an indication of one's qualifications, worth, or merit. When people see long-term unemployment as the result of market and economic forces, job search is much more consistent. If you think it's about you, you get discouraged. If you recognize the crap-shoot element, you keep rolling the dice. [citation (a word file, sorry) here viewed as html)
What this means for you, OP, is that you're not helping: You think his unemployment is a character flaw and if he buys into what you're selling that will actually increase the likelihood that he will get discouraged and slow down his job search.
If you don't want to be with this guy for any reason at all, that's fair. You don't have to. It's absolutely ok to break up with him and this does not make you a bad person. But please don't kick him while he's down by saying or implying that not having a job is a sign of lack of motivation or ambition or anything else about him rather than about his situation.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:11 PM on April 19, 2015 [25 favorites]
In fact, dips in motivation are not "natural". They are the result of an ideology that promotes a belief that whether or not one finds a job is an indication of one's qualifications, worth, or merit. When people see long-term unemployment as the result of market and economic forces, job search is much more consistent. If you think it's about you, you get discouraged. If you recognize the crap-shoot element, you keep rolling the dice. [citation (a word file, sorry) here viewed as html)
What this means for you, OP, is that you're not helping: You think his unemployment is a character flaw and if he buys into what you're selling that will actually increase the likelihood that he will get discouraged and slow down his job search.
If you don't want to be with this guy for any reason at all, that's fair. You don't have to. It's absolutely ok to break up with him and this does not make you a bad person. But please don't kick him while he's down by saying or implying that not having a job is a sign of lack of motivation or ambition or anything else about him rather than about his situation.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:11 PM on April 19, 2015 [25 favorites]
If he knows this is important to you, and he still can't figure out how to find something to do that pays, it's not going to get better. He could deliver pizza, walk dogs, etc., but you can't nag him into it. DTMFA and move on.
posted by Ideefixe at 8:17 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 8:17 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you're at the "I can't be here because he doesn't have a job" stage, you're already cooked in this relationship. Time to break up gracefully.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:42 PM on April 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:42 PM on April 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
should I tell him that I have a time set for how long it takes him to get a job in order to continue our relationship?
If he had made similar decision about you, wouldn't you want to know about it? I mean, if he was going around thinking "I'm going to break up with my girlfriend on such-and-such date if she doesn't fulfill the following conditions", wouldn't you think it a little unfair if he didn't let you in on it?
posted by sam_harms at 9:59 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
If he had made similar decision about you, wouldn't you want to know about it? I mean, if he was going around thinking "I'm going to break up with my girlfriend on such-and-such date if she doesn't fulfill the following conditions", wouldn't you think it a little unfair if he didn't let you in on it?
posted by sam_harms at 9:59 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean, if he was going around thinking "I'm going to break up with my girlfriend on such-and-such date if she doesn't fulfill the following conditions", wouldn't you think it a little unfair if he didn't let you in on it?
The problem is that the condition is impossible for him to meet. A job offer is something someone else does. Sure he influences the likelihood, but influence isn't control. An ultimatum like this is equivalent to fell ng a sick person they have two months to get better: If you're more migrainse arent over by June, I'm out of here. The partner can stop drinking red wine and avoid bright flashing lights, and maybe that will help, but they can't just decide not to have migraines.
A " stop drinking red wine"(I.e. look for work actively) ultimatum can at least be responded to, but an ultimatum on the result (whether migraines or jobs) can bring nothing but stress.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:23 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
The problem is that the condition is impossible for him to meet. A job offer is something someone else does. Sure he influences the likelihood, but influence isn't control. An ultimatum like this is equivalent to fell ng a sick person they have two months to get better: If you're more migrainse arent over by June, I'm out of here. The partner can stop drinking red wine and avoid bright flashing lights, and maybe that will help, but they can't just decide not to have migraines.
A " stop drinking red wine"(I.e. look for work actively) ultimatum can at least be responded to, but an ultimatum on the result (whether migraines or jobs) can bring nothing but stress.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:23 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
You are well within your rights to have whatever deal breaker you want, but realistically, think about what you're saying. To live up to your expectations, your partner is never allowed to lose their job and not find another immediately, regardless of the economic situation. So they either need a job for life (do these even exist??) or need to have inherited millions and be independently wealthy. Or you refuse to be with them. Good luck with finding that person and having that conversation with every prospective boyfriend, where you explain what they'll have to do for you to stick around.
Oh, and I assume that you too, can absolutely guarantee that you'll have a job for life as well. On some level, I actually envy your thinking because it means you've lead a privileged, sheltered existence. You've never suffered hardship, never struggled to find or keep work in a shitty economy and have zero idea of what it does to your self esteem. Lucky you, but God help you if you ever find yourself in the position of losing your job, I hope for your sake whatever partner you have then does not share your expectations. Please, break up with this guy. For his sake, not yours.
posted by Jubey at 10:34 PM on April 19, 2015 [12 favorites]
Oh, and I assume that you too, can absolutely guarantee that you'll have a job for life as well. On some level, I actually envy your thinking because it means you've lead a privileged, sheltered existence. You've never suffered hardship, never struggled to find or keep work in a shitty economy and have zero idea of what it does to your self esteem. Lucky you, but God help you if you ever find yourself in the position of losing your job, I hope for your sake whatever partner you have then does not share your expectations. Please, break up with this guy. For his sake, not yours.
posted by Jubey at 10:34 PM on April 19, 2015 [12 favorites]
I hope you never experience long-term unemployment. It is soul-crushing, and it's nearly impossible to stay motivated when it seems like everyone else is having an easy time. It must be even worse for him because you're standing there, confirming you've had an easy time and judging him. Please don't give him this ultimatum. It will make him feel even worse when he doesn't find something. You're not willing to remain supportive of him during this trying time, and it's clear you think this is his fault, so you are incompatible. Please break up with him, do not tell him it's because he's unemployed (he's not choosing to be, trust me), and move on.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 10:37 PM on April 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 10:37 PM on April 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
In addition, if I knew my partner were as judgmental about my already mortifying unemployment as you are, I'd break up with him first. So you're doing him a huge favor.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 10:43 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 10:43 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I mean, if he was going around thinking "I'm going to break up with my girlfriend on such-and-such date if she doesn't fulfill the following conditions", wouldn't you think it a little unfair if he didn't let you in on it?
The problem is that the condition is impossible for him to meet.
Perhaps. But if someone had set an impossible-to-meet deadline on me, I'd still want to know about it. This decision affects him, so it's respectful to inform him of it, so he can chose how to react to it.
posted by sam_harms at 10:51 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
The problem is that the condition is impossible for him to meet.
Perhaps. But if someone had set an impossible-to-meet deadline on me, I'd still want to know about it. This decision affects him, so it's respectful to inform him of it, so he can chose how to react to it.
posted by sam_harms at 10:51 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
You know, I'm going to post the contrary because there are sure as shit guys who lose their job, decide they're going to be "musicians", sleep 15 hours a day and play video games, and yet want to be patted on the head because they applied for two jobs that week, even though those jobs aren't even in their field and they had a snowball's chance in hell to be called in for them, all while living in your flat, eating your food, and wondering why you're asking them to clean if they're going to be home... I mean, it's your place, right, why are you expecting them to clean your flat?
I've dated them, my friends have dated them, only the OP knows if she's got a boyfriend who's been dealt a really shit deal or is showing his true slacker colors. They're both possibilities.
OP, I'd say that you could rephrase your dealbreaker, rephrase it as he keeps trying/searching, doesn't lean on you for cash/living expenses, etc. - that he shows that he wants to be be secure financially, even if it isn't in the cards right now. That he shows that he has a plan, even if that plan is "look online for 30 minutes a day". But if he's just been dealt a real bad hand right now, and isn't normally a slacker, it is a good time to revisit what is important to you in a partner. And if "secure, financial stability" is one of them, then own it, really own it, and date guys who always seem to have another gig around the corner, so that they're rarely unemployed. Accountants maybe? Bankers?
posted by RogueTech at 11:05 PM on April 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
I've dated them, my friends have dated them, only the OP knows if she's got a boyfriend who's been dealt a really shit deal or is showing his true slacker colors. They're both possibilities.
OP, I'd say that you could rephrase your dealbreaker, rephrase it as he keeps trying/searching, doesn't lean on you for cash/living expenses, etc. - that he shows that he wants to be be secure financially, even if it isn't in the cards right now. That he shows that he has a plan, even if that plan is "look online for 30 minutes a day". But if he's just been dealt a real bad hand right now, and isn't normally a slacker, it is a good time to revisit what is important to you in a partner. And if "secure, financial stability" is one of them, then own it, really own it, and date guys who always seem to have another gig around the corner, so that they're rarely unemployed. Accountants maybe? Bankers?
posted by RogueTech at 11:05 PM on April 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: At this point, this I've decided what are the deal breakers for me in this relationship but he doesn't know that. Should I tell him or would that be an ultimatum?
Yes, tell him. And yes, it will be an ultimatum. And that's ok... ultimatums are not always a terrible thing. It's not a bad idea for someone to share their "deal-breakers," whatever those might be. Better to share it now than to share it after you're married or tied together closely financially.
I think you are getting too many answers that are painting you as the bad guy here, particularly if you are supporting this person, and he is not pulling his weight financially.
It's very reasonable to desire a partner that contributes, that works hard, that has ambition, and that cares about improving their life and improving the relationship. If your boyfriend is not really working to find a job to contribute financially, and is floating around right now at a time where he needs to have some direction (or take steps to find it), I think you have every reason to be frustrated.
In my day I have known a number of people your age (mid-late 20s) who are "pursuing a career in music" or some such "career path," all while having little to no talent at the career in question, all while insisting on living in an expensive city outside their financial means, and all while having little ambition, work ethic, or connections in the industry. Often times, yes, I've noted that these people seem to be pursuing this in lieu of something that would actually fit their talents and skills (but that would take more actual work). Perhaps your boyfriend does fall into that category. It wouldn't surprise me, I've sure seen it often enough.
That said, I think you do need to temper your expectations, or you're going to face some serious future disappointment in relationships.
You have every right to demand that your partner contributes. But maybe that level of contribution may change, or maybe it might morph into different forms. Maybe someone loses their job, and while they look for a new one, they try to find other ways to contribute. If you demand so many specifics around that contribution, you are likely to be disappointed. Things change, the economy changes, companies change.
You have every right to demand that your partner work to make things better. In this case that means looking for a job to contribute monetarily. That's very fair. But you reasonably can't demand that your partner get that job by X date, or that the job pay X dollars... that would be holding your partner to a standard someone else has a part in setting.
Allow your partners freedom to be "ambitious" in different ways. That shouldn't just solely mean ambition toward a higher pay grade. One can have some career ambition, but some hobby ambition as well- or ambition as regards to learning new skills, or mastering new tools. Or, ambition in terms of finding ways to help others. Does ambition to you just mean having a partner who is always out for a promotion and working up the ladder? Then disappointment is likely in your future. Allow your partners to be human.
TL;DR: You have expectations that need to be tempered. Recognize what your partner is actually able to affect in this world, and recognize what they cannot control. Recognize that your partner needs a little freedom to pursue different avenues, especially in terms of ambition.
That said, it does sound to me like your partner may not be meeting reasonable expectations that most people would have.
Yes- share your feelings, but consider tempering your expectations a bit first.
posted by Old Man McKay at 11:37 PM on April 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yes, tell him. And yes, it will be an ultimatum. And that's ok... ultimatums are not always a terrible thing. It's not a bad idea for someone to share their "deal-breakers," whatever those might be. Better to share it now than to share it after you're married or tied together closely financially.
I think you are getting too many answers that are painting you as the bad guy here, particularly if you are supporting this person, and he is not pulling his weight financially.
It's very reasonable to desire a partner that contributes, that works hard, that has ambition, and that cares about improving their life and improving the relationship. If your boyfriend is not really working to find a job to contribute financially, and is floating around right now at a time where he needs to have some direction (or take steps to find it), I think you have every reason to be frustrated.
In my day I have known a number of people your age (mid-late 20s) who are "pursuing a career in music" or some such "career path," all while having little to no talent at the career in question, all while insisting on living in an expensive city outside their financial means, and all while having little ambition, work ethic, or connections in the industry. Often times, yes, I've noted that these people seem to be pursuing this in lieu of something that would actually fit their talents and skills (but that would take more actual work). Perhaps your boyfriend does fall into that category. It wouldn't surprise me, I've sure seen it often enough.
That said, I think you do need to temper your expectations, or you're going to face some serious future disappointment in relationships.
You have every right to demand that your partner contributes. But maybe that level of contribution may change, or maybe it might morph into different forms. Maybe someone loses their job, and while they look for a new one, they try to find other ways to contribute. If you demand so many specifics around that contribution, you are likely to be disappointed. Things change, the economy changes, companies change.
You have every right to demand that your partner work to make things better. In this case that means looking for a job to contribute monetarily. That's very fair. But you reasonably can't demand that your partner get that job by X date, or that the job pay X dollars... that would be holding your partner to a standard someone else has a part in setting.
Allow your partners freedom to be "ambitious" in different ways. That shouldn't just solely mean ambition toward a higher pay grade. One can have some career ambition, but some hobby ambition as well- or ambition as regards to learning new skills, or mastering new tools. Or, ambition in terms of finding ways to help others. Does ambition to you just mean having a partner who is always out for a promotion and working up the ladder? Then disappointment is likely in your future. Allow your partners to be human.
TL;DR: You have expectations that need to be tempered. Recognize what your partner is actually able to affect in this world, and recognize what they cannot control. Recognize that your partner needs a little freedom to pursue different avenues, especially in terms of ambition.
That said, it does sound to me like your partner may not be meeting reasonable expectations that most people would have.
Yes- share your feelings, but consider tempering your expectations a bit first.
posted by Old Man McKay at 11:37 PM on April 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
Normally, I'd say DTMFA, you deserve better. But honestly, in this case, I'd say he deserves better. Because it doesn't sound like you love *him*; it sounds like you love the idea of a boyfriend you have in your head. And he's no longer matching that idea. So set him free so he can find someone who loves him for who he actually is.
posted by MexicanYenta at 12:52 AM on April 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by MexicanYenta at 12:52 AM on April 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
It sounds like even if he did get a job, you wouldn't have a whole lot of respect for it unless it was the "right" kind of job and in the same field as his degree, even though TONS of successful people never work in the same field as their college education.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like even if he managed to land something by your deadline (as in ANYTHING even waiting tables or whatever), you'd still have no respect for him unless it fit with what you deemed ambitious/successful enough.
posted by Kimmalah at 1:44 AM on April 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like even if he managed to land something by your deadline (as in ANYTHING even waiting tables or whatever), you'd still have no respect for him unless it fit with what you deemed ambitious/successful enough.
posted by Kimmalah at 1:44 AM on April 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm going to agree with don't give him an ultimatum but for this reason: it won't make any goddamned difference.
Here's my (highly abbreviated) story: I'm older, have advanced degrees and a professional career that I love. I was dating a guy my age who chose to never go to college, to not ever look for a traditional career. He always struggled financially and was constantly stressed about finding his next cash in hand minimum wage job.
It took me far too long to realize that it wasn't the economy or he had been dealt a shitty hand. He was just lazy as hell and he didn't want an education, he didn't want to do work that fulfilled him in some way. He was living some bizarre O. Henry fantasy about the noble struggle, except he was perfectly happy to eat my food and whine about being broke.
So what I suggest is to think about your guy. Does my story ring true? Does he have interests? Are there things he WANTS to do? I know that at your age it's unlikely to know with 100% certainty what he wants to do with his professional life, but is he fired up about possibilities? Or is he ambitionless? That's what you need to sort out.
Listen, it's okay to find ambition and drive attractive. And if you think this guy isn't motivated, then just break up with him. It's okay. But an ultimatum isn't going to get him a job if that's what he wants, nor will it suddenly give him ambition if he's not inclined that way. Take that out of the equation and go from there.
posted by kinetic at 4:28 AM on April 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Here's my (highly abbreviated) story: I'm older, have advanced degrees and a professional career that I love. I was dating a guy my age who chose to never go to college, to not ever look for a traditional career. He always struggled financially and was constantly stressed about finding his next cash in hand minimum wage job.
It took me far too long to realize that it wasn't the economy or he had been dealt a shitty hand. He was just lazy as hell and he didn't want an education, he didn't want to do work that fulfilled him in some way. He was living some bizarre O. Henry fantasy about the noble struggle, except he was perfectly happy to eat my food and whine about being broke.
So what I suggest is to think about your guy. Does my story ring true? Does he have interests? Are there things he WANTS to do? I know that at your age it's unlikely to know with 100% certainty what he wants to do with his professional life, but is he fired up about possibilities? Or is he ambitionless? That's what you need to sort out.
Listen, it's okay to find ambition and drive attractive. And if you think this guy isn't motivated, then just break up with him. It's okay. But an ultimatum isn't going to get him a job if that's what he wants, nor will it suddenly give him ambition if he's not inclined that way. Take that out of the equation and go from there.
posted by kinetic at 4:28 AM on April 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
This seems like a fairly easy math problem. You were only together for six months before this bump in the road happened. Things are usually really great in the beginning; otherwise you wouldn't get past the first few dates. But if he doesn't get a job in the next two months, then the not so good time will equal the good time, and at any point after that, it will be more.
In other words, you had a fairly typical honeymoon period and then it stopped working for you. It happened to be about unemployment, which is somewhat out of his control and it does seem kind of mean to dump someone over that. But if it wasn't for the unemployment, are you sure things would be fine right now? It doesn't sound to me like they would be.
posted by BibiRose at 6:27 AM on April 20, 2015
In other words, you had a fairly typical honeymoon period and then it stopped working for you. It happened to be about unemployment, which is somewhat out of his control and it does seem kind of mean to dump someone over that. But if it wasn't for the unemployment, are you sure things would be fine right now? It doesn't sound to me like they would be.
posted by BibiRose at 6:27 AM on April 20, 2015
If I was unemployed and my boyfriend was giving me grief about it, I would be really depressed. Rejection in the job market is so hard (and it doesn't seem like this is a thing you grok at this point in your life) and having that topped by partner disapproval would make the whole thing more nightmarish. I really feel for your guy.
So do the right thing and let him go. Maybe say something along the lines that music is great, hey, but you want the house and the car and the career and the whatever it is you want. Good for you. But dragging him along your priority list seems very cruel.
posted by angrycat at 6:54 AM on April 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
So do the right thing and let him go. Maybe say something along the lines that music is great, hey, but you want the house and the car and the career and the whatever it is you want. Good for you. But dragging him along your priority list seems very cruel.
posted by angrycat at 6:54 AM on April 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
You’re getting a whole lot of judgment here that I’m not sure is deserved. Let’s remember that the whole purpose of dating, for the vast majority of the population, is to find someone exceptionally suitable to be your life partner. The goal isn’t to demonstrate yourself to be The Most Non-Judgmental And Progressive Person Ever; it’s to find one person extremely compatible with you, your interests, and your priorities. You don’t have to date everyone who asks nicely. And sometimes, while you want to desire someone, you just don’t, for whatever reason. That’s okay. People are attracted to different – often arbitrary and unchosen – things, and you’re allowed to discriminate based on these. In fact, you should. There are billions of people in the world; why intentionally choose someone whom you don’t find attractive and/or don’t respect, just to prove some kind of progressive point or win some kind of liberal dating Olympics that you have running in your head? I love Metafilter but I do sometimes find it funny that on this site the realization of some kinds of compatibility and desires (in particular, sexual) are viewed as a moral imperative; yet other kinds of compatibility and preferences (physical, religious, economic) are viewed as unseemly, base, and embarrassing. If you were kinky or poly or gay, and wrote a similar question and elaborated on how you’d come to the apprehension that you and your boyfriend weren’t sexually compatible and you were increasingly dissatisfied in bed, would you be getting answers dismissing your desires and telling you that you’re A Bad Person for wanting someone who met your desires in that area? I doubt it.
Let me give you an example. A guy friend of mine apparently is only turned on by women with large breasts, and has been since he can remember. It is what it is. Desperate to prove that he wasn’t shallow, he dated a woman with a small A-cup for a year – A YEAR!!! – until a very messy break-up in which, after she pressed him about her suspicions, he had to admit to her that he’d never really found her sexually attractive, he found himself frequently fantasizing about her getting implants, and he had been dating her in order to prove to himself and others how “open-minded” he was about appearance, which understandably devastated her self-confidence. Do you really want to be that guy? Honestly, it’s like some sort of self-imposed liberal version of evangelical ex-gay therapy, where people feel morally bound to change deep-seated desires or preferences in service of some sort smug imposed-from-above Platonic ideal of romantic rectitude. I mean, if wanting a guy who is ambitious/employed is something you don’t like about yourself, and you think you might be able to change it, have a crack at it; but you may well find it a difficult/impossible preference to alter, and I’m not sure you should feel obliged to wear sackcloth and ashes and feel bad about yourself if you can’t or don’t want to change this about yourself. I, too, have found through dating that I have trouble respecting a boyfriend as a man if he’s not ambitious and confident, and I don’t feel any particular moral compunction to change this. I’m absolutely sure there are many things about me that some guys find a turn-on and others find a turn-off or a deal-breaker. I don’t beat myself up about it: that’s just how it goes.
I mean, everyone has to come to grips with reality at some point in the dating process: you’re obviously unlikely to find a 6’5” green-eyed Harvard-educated atheist bassoon-playing pediatric surgeon who speaks Pashto. But you shouldn’t settle regarding the characteristics that are really important to you, or for things you instinctively find actively unattractive. It’s not like you breaking up with your boyfriend is some kind of official referendum on his date-ability or his quality as a person; it’s just you saying that you personally do not find him a good match for you. That's fine. You’re not married to him. For many people, including me, the whole point of dating is for it to be a process of discernment, to see whether this is someone you want to spend your life with. Look, so this relationship has been a clarifying one, in that it illuminated for you that ambition and gainful employment are important for you in your choice of a partner. Good. This guy, at least at this point in his life, apparently is not what you’re looking for. No biggie. Don’t keep charity-dating him, either because you pity him or because you’re trying to prove to yourself how open-minded you are about dating guys you find unattractive. That’s not nice to anybody. Someone out there will love dating your boyfriend, and that person isn’t you. Free him up to find a woman who really admires him and wants to be with him, and search for a guy about whom you feel that way too.
posted by ClaireBear at 7:00 AM on April 20, 2015 [20 favorites]
Let me give you an example. A guy friend of mine apparently is only turned on by women with large breasts, and has been since he can remember. It is what it is. Desperate to prove that he wasn’t shallow, he dated a woman with a small A-cup for a year – A YEAR!!! – until a very messy break-up in which, after she pressed him about her suspicions, he had to admit to her that he’d never really found her sexually attractive, he found himself frequently fantasizing about her getting implants, and he had been dating her in order to prove to himself and others how “open-minded” he was about appearance, which understandably devastated her self-confidence. Do you really want to be that guy? Honestly, it’s like some sort of self-imposed liberal version of evangelical ex-gay therapy, where people feel morally bound to change deep-seated desires or preferences in service of some sort smug imposed-from-above Platonic ideal of romantic rectitude. I mean, if wanting a guy who is ambitious/employed is something you don’t like about yourself, and you think you might be able to change it, have a crack at it; but you may well find it a difficult/impossible preference to alter, and I’m not sure you should feel obliged to wear sackcloth and ashes and feel bad about yourself if you can’t or don’t want to change this about yourself. I, too, have found through dating that I have trouble respecting a boyfriend as a man if he’s not ambitious and confident, and I don’t feel any particular moral compunction to change this. I’m absolutely sure there are many things about me that some guys find a turn-on and others find a turn-off or a deal-breaker. I don’t beat myself up about it: that’s just how it goes.
I mean, everyone has to come to grips with reality at some point in the dating process: you’re obviously unlikely to find a 6’5” green-eyed Harvard-educated atheist bassoon-playing pediatric surgeon who speaks Pashto. But you shouldn’t settle regarding the characteristics that are really important to you, or for things you instinctively find actively unattractive. It’s not like you breaking up with your boyfriend is some kind of official referendum on his date-ability or his quality as a person; it’s just you saying that you personally do not find him a good match for you. That's fine. You’re not married to him. For many people, including me, the whole point of dating is for it to be a process of discernment, to see whether this is someone you want to spend your life with. Look, so this relationship has been a clarifying one, in that it illuminated for you that ambition and gainful employment are important for you in your choice of a partner. Good. This guy, at least at this point in his life, apparently is not what you’re looking for. No biggie. Don’t keep charity-dating him, either because you pity him or because you’re trying to prove to yourself how open-minded you are about dating guys you find unattractive. That’s not nice to anybody. Someone out there will love dating your boyfriend, and that person isn’t you. Free him up to find a woman who really admires him and wants to be with him, and search for a guy about whom you feel that way too.
posted by ClaireBear at 7:00 AM on April 20, 2015 [20 favorites]
Best answer: As an addendum to my previous point, I want to note that as I read it, OP, your critique at its heart is not really about your boyfriend’s unemployment; instead, it’s primarily about the fact that his unemployment has revealed what you perceive to be a profound character flaw in him – a lack of vocational ambition. This is a rather different thing, and many of the above responses aren’t really distinguishing them adequately. The boyfriend can’t control what jobs he is offered, but he can put his heart into applying, especially if his girlfriend has expressed how important it is to her. For him not to be applying after that sort of conversation either suggests something like depression (in which case he should get that addressed with a professional), or suggests a troubling lack of investment in those things which are really important to his girlfriend, and/or suggests a profound mismatch of priorities between the two members of this couple. Neither of those two final things bodes well for the positive potential of this relationship.
posted by ClaireBear at 7:11 AM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ClaireBear at 7:11 AM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, I think it is a good idea for this person to really assess their dealbreakers and how realistic they are. Life happens, people lose their jobs and have trouble finding new ones all the time - are you going to run for the hills and abandon whoever you're with every time it happens because suddenly they don't meet your parameters?
I also find it really disturbing how much of this "Unemployed people/minimum wage workers are just lazy and want to mooch" that's going on here.
posted by Kimmalah at 7:13 AM on April 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
I also find it really disturbing how much of this "Unemployed people/minimum wage workers are just lazy and want to mooch" that's going on here.
posted by Kimmalah at 7:13 AM on April 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Holy cats. I am amazed at the judgement in this thread. OP, take it all with a mountain of salt.
Working eight to six when your boyfriend stays at home all day playing video games SUCKS, people. It truly, truly sucks. You're bone-exhausted and he wants sex. Did he cook dinner? Probably not. He's lonely and bored because he had no social contact all day, so he wants to go out. You're exhausted and want to order Chinese food and complain about work a little bit. But you agree to go out. At dinner you start talking about work and he takes it as a personal affront and clams up. It gets awkward. So you listen to him talk about video games instead and pretend to be really interested and that work is fine and you have nothing to talk about. And guess who pays?
Etc. etc. etc.
Jeez Louise. Male or female, it doesn't matter- being unemployed is a choice if you are A.) not looking and B.) too picky -or both. I worked at Starbucks, at a dry cleaners, and at a hotel. My sympathy for "job market woes" is limited.
Yes, move on. Don't take the passive aggressiveness to heart and don't feel bad about it.
posted by quincunx at 7:39 AM on April 20, 2015 [8 favorites]
Working eight to six when your boyfriend stays at home all day playing video games SUCKS, people. It truly, truly sucks. You're bone-exhausted and he wants sex. Did he cook dinner? Probably not. He's lonely and bored because he had no social contact all day, so he wants to go out. You're exhausted and want to order Chinese food and complain about work a little bit. But you agree to go out. At dinner you start talking about work and he takes it as a personal affront and clams up. It gets awkward. So you listen to him talk about video games instead and pretend to be really interested and that work is fine and you have nothing to talk about. And guess who pays?
Etc. etc. etc.
Jeez Louise. Male or female, it doesn't matter- being unemployed is a choice if you are A.) not looking and B.) too picky -or both. I worked at Starbucks, at a dry cleaners, and at a hotel. My sympathy for "job market woes" is limited.
Yes, move on. Don't take the passive aggressiveness to heart and don't feel bad about it.
posted by quincunx at 7:39 AM on April 20, 2015 [8 favorites]
I mean, if the situations were reversed, and he was planning on breaking up with you on a specific date for a specific reason, wouldn't you want to know about it? Regardless of how you feel about ultimatums, wouldn't you still want to know that he'd made one? Maybe you'd take his ultimatum seriously, or maybe you'd laugh in his face, but either way you'd have the truth, and could react the way you want.
You're asking if you should issue him an ultimatum, but the truth is you already have--you just haven't told him about it yet. Well, now it's time to tell him. This decision you've made is going to have a huge impact on his life. If you have even the slightest bit of respect for him, you'll tell him about it.
Sorry for harping on the same point over and over again, but I feel for this guy, because there's a hurricane coming his way, and he has no idea. Maybe he's not your type (I don't like non-ambitious guys either, btw), but he still deserves a little warning of what you're planning for him.
posted by sam_harms at 8:11 AM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're asking if you should issue him an ultimatum, but the truth is you already have--you just haven't told him about it yet. Well, now it's time to tell him. This decision you've made is going to have a huge impact on his life. If you have even the slightest bit of respect for him, you'll tell him about it.
Sorry for harping on the same point over and over again, but I feel for this guy, because there's a hurricane coming his way, and he has no idea. Maybe he's not your type (I don't like non-ambitious guys either, btw), but he still deserves a little warning of what you're planning for him.
posted by sam_harms at 8:11 AM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
It would appear the ultimatum exists whether you voice it or not.
Quite simply, if his earning potential is that important, and it seems it is, and if his dream has changed and you will only accept it as "#2 or 3" and it appears you do, you may only be in love with the original potential of him.
When he gets sick, when he cheats, when he doesn't see money and children and geographical options as you do, what then?
Thirty three years of marriage tells me the deal is already broken. The ultimatum just cuts the dog's tail off an inch at a time.
posted by seldom seen at 8:54 AM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Quite simply, if his earning potential is that important, and it seems it is, and if his dream has changed and you will only accept it as "#2 or 3" and it appears you do, you may only be in love with the original potential of him.
When he gets sick, when he cheats, when he doesn't see money and children and geographical options as you do, what then?
Thirty three years of marriage tells me the deal is already broken. The ultimatum just cuts the dog's tail off an inch at a time.
posted by seldom seen at 8:54 AM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Six months into the relationship, he lost his job. For two months he actively looked for work. He became depressed and unmotivated around your 8-month anniversary. And now 2 more months have gone by.
You haven't been with him very long at all. Your relationship hasn't had time for a real commitment to develop. There's no sense in staying together "through thick and thin." You never would have started dating him if he were unemployed or apathetic, and now he's both.
You said he's sweet and caring, but it doesn't sound like you really love him. You didn't mention any other reasons to stay together. I can understand that you don't want to just break up with him out of the blue, but an ultimatum isn't the best way to give someone a heads up.
I'm not judging either of you, by the way. 6-8 month relationships frequently end because the "on our best behavior" stage ends and the initial enchantment wears off. You want a guy whose ambition and goals are similar to yours. When you break up with him, talk about compatibility and how you each see your own future, and leave the unemployment out of it.
posted by wryly at 10:01 AM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
You haven't been with him very long at all. Your relationship hasn't had time for a real commitment to develop. There's no sense in staying together "through thick and thin." You never would have started dating him if he were unemployed or apathetic, and now he's both.
You said he's sweet and caring, but it doesn't sound like you really love him. You didn't mention any other reasons to stay together. I can understand that you don't want to just break up with him out of the blue, but an ultimatum isn't the best way to give someone a heads up.
I'm not judging either of you, by the way. 6-8 month relationships frequently end because the "on our best behavior" stage ends and the initial enchantment wears off. You want a guy whose ambition and goals are similar to yours. When you break up with him, talk about compatibility and how you each see your own future, and leave the unemployment out of it.
posted by wryly at 10:01 AM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
You're getting some harsh judgement in this thread adn I don't think your question really has enough info to back it up.
THe big missing piece of your question is what is this guy living off of now? I see so many people get unemployed and they start looking for a job comparable in title and pay to what they had while they collect unemployment. Which is all good and fine, but then unemployment runs out and instead of taking any job (fast food, retail, part-time, seasonal, temp) they continue to complain and search only for things getting them back to where they were. That is a deal breaker for me. I don't like someone who is unwilling to compromise their "coolness" or whatever it is to bring something to the table.
On the filp-side, if your boyfriend is still collecting unemployment (which often makes taking the super low wage jobs not worth as you net less money) then I think if you really do like him you should ride it out and see if he cobbles something together or is a failure to start once he doesn't have the unemployment $ coming in.
posted by WeekendJen at 10:32 AM on April 20, 2015
THe big missing piece of your question is what is this guy living off of now? I see so many people get unemployed and they start looking for a job comparable in title and pay to what they had while they collect unemployment. Which is all good and fine, but then unemployment runs out and instead of taking any job (fast food, retail, part-time, seasonal, temp) they continue to complain and search only for things getting them back to where they were. That is a deal breaker for me. I don't like someone who is unwilling to compromise their "coolness" or whatever it is to bring something to the table.
On the filp-side, if your boyfriend is still collecting unemployment (which often makes taking the super low wage jobs not worth as you net less money) then I think if you really do like him you should ride it out and see if he cobbles something together or is a failure to start once he doesn't have the unemployment $ coming in.
posted by WeekendJen at 10:32 AM on April 20, 2015
I guess it's hard to say for sure from what's written, but to me, this sort of thing
guys who lose their job, decide they're going to be "musicians", sleep 15 hours a day and play video games, and yet want to be patted on the head because they applied for two jobs that week, even though those jobs aren't even in their field and they had a snowball's chance in hell to be called in for them,
doesn't quite jibe with the picture of a guy who tried to pull his weight with a "dead-end" job with "inconvenient" hours, and who also did this:
Prior to losing this job he'd been searching for several months and despite his college degree couldn't find anything in his field.
He searched pretty heavily during the first two or so months, we re-did his resume, started volunteering and worked with a local career center.
After those 2 months, he got depressed and all but stopped searching.
To me, that sounds like more like someone who has been trying hard to make things work as a young person with not-great experience in a crappy economy, and who is having a highly predictable and common and well-documented response to an inherently disheartening and demoralizing process, and less like someone with a fatal character flaw.
But yeah, still think you can and should just end the relationship, really for both your sakes, if you've already lost respect for and resent him.
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:58 AM on April 20, 2015 [9 favorites]
guys who lose their job, decide they're going to be "musicians", sleep 15 hours a day and play video games, and yet want to be patted on the head because they applied for two jobs that week, even though those jobs aren't even in their field and they had a snowball's chance in hell to be called in for them,
doesn't quite jibe with the picture of a guy who tried to pull his weight with a "dead-end" job with "inconvenient" hours, and who also did this:
Prior to losing this job he'd been searching for several months and despite his college degree couldn't find anything in his field.
He searched pretty heavily during the first two or so months, we re-did his resume, started volunteering and worked with a local career center.
After those 2 months, he got depressed and all but stopped searching.
To me, that sounds like more like someone who has been trying hard to make things work as a young person with not-great experience in a crappy economy, and who is having a highly predictable and common and well-documented response to an inherently disheartening and demoralizing process, and less like someone with a fatal character flaw.
But yeah, still think you can and should just end the relationship, really for both your sakes, if you've already lost respect for and resent him.
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:58 AM on April 20, 2015 [9 favorites]
Whether it's fair for you to do this or not, whether you should say something to him or not, it doesn't really matter: you've already decided to break up with him. The ship, as they say, has sailed.
I would generally say that yes, it's reasonable--even necessary--to tell a partner "X is making me unhappy, I would like you to stop doing X, because I would like this relationship to continue." In this case, that would be "I need you to be actively looking for a job" (because as pointed out by everyone, getting a job is contingent on the actions of other people, over whom he has no control). You've already made the decision, though, so.
Use Miko's script.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:59 PM on April 20, 2015
I would generally say that yes, it's reasonable--even necessary--to tell a partner "X is making me unhappy, I would like you to stop doing X, because I would like this relationship to continue." In this case, that would be "I need you to be actively looking for a job" (because as pointed out by everyone, getting a job is contingent on the actions of other people, over whom he has no control). You've already made the decision, though, so.
Use Miko's script.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:59 PM on April 20, 2015
Hi, I watched my parents' marriage dissolve into mutual hatred largely because after losing his job, my dad sat on the couch and read fantasy novels for 5 years while my mom worked 3 jobs. Anyone who's claiming this situation is "minor" or judging you for giving a shit has clearly never witnessed the fallout from a relationship where one partner thinks it's ok to just...not work. Find someone who matches your level of ambition, and frankly I think it's great that you're realizing what's important to you in a relationship sooner rather than later.
posted by tatiana wishbone at 3:59 PM on April 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by tatiana wishbone at 3:59 PM on April 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
You're already done with this relationship - just go head and make it official. Skip right over any ultimatum stuff - I reckon that when a couple has hit that point, it's already pretty much over. What happens when he gets a job but you find you still resent him? Pull the plug and date a plumber or something. Those guys always have work.
posted by EatTheWeek at 4:10 PM on April 20, 2015
posted by EatTheWeek at 4:10 PM on April 20, 2015
You don't ditch people when they need you most. You help them.
posted by w0mbat at 5:04 PM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by w0mbat at 5:04 PM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I honestly can't tell if he's a scrub or not empirically from this post, though I am pretty sure the poster thinks he is. I'd be on the bandwagon of DUMP THAT SCRUB if I were convinced this was the case, but right now I'm not even sure and giving him the benefit of the doubt.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:30 PM on April 20, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:30 PM on April 20, 2015
This is not a ten-year marriage. This is someone you've been fucking for less than a year. Move on, for both your sakes.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 10:52 PM on April 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 10:52 PM on April 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
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