How do I decide how much money to spend on convenience?
March 30, 2015 8:54 AM Subscribe
Since getting a high-paying job, I've discovered that paying for convenience or wants instead of needs actually makes me feel bad. I'd like to get around that.
I've been a saver all my life. My default is to only buy things I need, and I set a pretty high bar for things I need. This has served me pretty well so far, and living on $20-$25K per year (in a biggish city in the northeast U.S.) has felt like luxury.
Now, for the first time, I have a fairly high-paying job. My take-home pay is about twice as much as I habitually spend. So things that I never let myself consider before, like choosing convenience rather than the cheapest reasonable option or buying things that I want but don't necessarily need, are suddenly within my reach.
The problem is, I've discovered that paying for convenience or wants instead of needs actually makes me feel bad. I'd like to get around that.
I have no problem paying for things or experiences I value. I would happily pay $200 or even $400 to, say, go skydiving because that seems like a small price to pay for such an incredible experience. The problem comes with paying for things I don't value as much, or that cost more than I think they should, or that I could easily do without. Some examples:
- buying my favorite food for $15 at the grocery store next to my house, when I know I could get it for $10 at my preferred grocery store, though it's harder to get to so I visit it more rarely
- buying more attractive furniture for my bedroom even though what I have now is perfectly functional, it's just ugly and I'm tired of it
- taking a cab home from the airport if it's late and raining, even if public transportation is available
- paying for Instacart grocery delivery, which costs 35% more but eliminates my least favorite errand
- replacing my rain jacket, which still works well enough for the few times a year I use it but is losing its waterproofness (tried Nik-Wax, it didn't help) and the lining is peeling off
- buying the Dark Sky smartphone app which has pretty graphs and tells you when the rain will start and makes me feel like I'm living in the future, even though all I really need is the current/high/low temperatures and the stock Weather app does that just fine
I have the money for all these things, and you would think that I'd be willing to pay an extra $5 to have my favorite food in the house more often, but it turns out it's really hard for me. If I do just pay the $5, which I've tried, I feel bad about it. I feel like I've gone against my own values, disregarded my own identity. I am the kind of person who really values doing things yourself, doing things independently, not needing very much, and choosing the everyman option rather than the rich-elite option. I've also defaulted to "spend as little as possible" for so long that if I spend any more than necessary, especially on things I don't value very much (like the convenience of having my favorite food more often even if it's more expensive than what I usually pay), it feels like... "the man has won," or I've been taken advantage of.
Also, a crucial point is that I know from experience that paying for these things won't really make me happier. It'll just eliminate a slight annoyance that I didn't mind that much to begin with. All the same, it feels weird to be making twice what I actually spend and not be okay with spending $100 on a new rainjacket or even $5 on a smartphone app.
I feel like the answer to this probably lies in setting aside some money each month for "convenience spending." But how much? How do you decide? Even if I had a goal like "retire in 10 years" and then extrapolated how much I had to save based on that, I'm drawn back to the thought "but if I save even more, then I can retire even sooner, like maybe 8 years instead of 10!"
I do already have 2-3 years of living expenses saved up, have a car and it's paid off, don't own a house, and am single with no kids and no current plans to have any.
I've been a saver all my life. My default is to only buy things I need, and I set a pretty high bar for things I need. This has served me pretty well so far, and living on $20-$25K per year (in a biggish city in the northeast U.S.) has felt like luxury.
Now, for the first time, I have a fairly high-paying job. My take-home pay is about twice as much as I habitually spend. So things that I never let myself consider before, like choosing convenience rather than the cheapest reasonable option or buying things that I want but don't necessarily need, are suddenly within my reach.
The problem is, I've discovered that paying for convenience or wants instead of needs actually makes me feel bad. I'd like to get around that.
I have no problem paying for things or experiences I value. I would happily pay $200 or even $400 to, say, go skydiving because that seems like a small price to pay for such an incredible experience. The problem comes with paying for things I don't value as much, or that cost more than I think they should, or that I could easily do without. Some examples:
- buying my favorite food for $15 at the grocery store next to my house, when I know I could get it for $10 at my preferred grocery store, though it's harder to get to so I visit it more rarely
- buying more attractive furniture for my bedroom even though what I have now is perfectly functional, it's just ugly and I'm tired of it
- taking a cab home from the airport if it's late and raining, even if public transportation is available
- paying for Instacart grocery delivery, which costs 35% more but eliminates my least favorite errand
- replacing my rain jacket, which still works well enough for the few times a year I use it but is losing its waterproofness (tried Nik-Wax, it didn't help) and the lining is peeling off
- buying the Dark Sky smartphone app which has pretty graphs and tells you when the rain will start and makes me feel like I'm living in the future, even though all I really need is the current/high/low temperatures and the stock Weather app does that just fine
I have the money for all these things, and you would think that I'd be willing to pay an extra $5 to have my favorite food in the house more often, but it turns out it's really hard for me. If I do just pay the $5, which I've tried, I feel bad about it. I feel like I've gone against my own values, disregarded my own identity. I am the kind of person who really values doing things yourself, doing things independently, not needing very much, and choosing the everyman option rather than the rich-elite option. I've also defaulted to "spend as little as possible" for so long that if I spend any more than necessary, especially on things I don't value very much (like the convenience of having my favorite food more often even if it's more expensive than what I usually pay), it feels like... "the man has won," or I've been taken advantage of.
Also, a crucial point is that I know from experience that paying for these things won't really make me happier. It'll just eliminate a slight annoyance that I didn't mind that much to begin with. All the same, it feels weird to be making twice what I actually spend and not be okay with spending $100 on a new rainjacket or even $5 on a smartphone app.
I feel like the answer to this probably lies in setting aside some money each month for "convenience spending." But how much? How do you decide? Even if I had a goal like "retire in 10 years" and then extrapolated how much I had to save based on that, I'm drawn back to the thought "but if I save even more, then I can retire even sooner, like maybe 8 years instead of 10!"
I do already have 2-3 years of living expenses saved up, have a car and it's paid off, don't own a house, and am single with no kids and no current plans to have any.
Can you back up a step and explain why you've felt you actually need to fix this? I'd be concerned if you were also avoiding spending money on experiences, but you say that that's not a problem and it's only things like "paying an extra couple bucks for my groceries to be delivered" that are bugging you. I'm not entirely sure how denying yourself grocery delivery is actually a problem, especially since you also say "they won't really make me happier". If they won't make you happier, I'm not clear on why you're bothering to attempt this.
I ask because maybe getting to the root of why this is a problem in the first place can help you figure out how to hack it. Or - maybe you'll decide you don't need to hack it at all, and keep on doing what sounds like is working very well for you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:00 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I ask because maybe getting to the root of why this is a problem in the first place can help you figure out how to hack it. Or - maybe you'll decide you don't need to hack it at all, and keep on doing what sounds like is working very well for you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:00 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know from experience that paying for these things won't really make me happier.
Good on you to realize this.
I would happily pay $200 or even $400 to, say, go skydiving because that seems like a small price to pay for such an incredible experience.
I think I sense the problem: you've stated this as a hypothetical. Maybe you aren't spending the money on incredible experiences? Start doing that! Go skydiving. Travel half-way around the world. You can do that now if you don't spend on convenience. 40-80 trips to the slightly farther grocery store is a mild annoyance, but that $400 or more spent in a lump sum could be life-changing.
posted by flimflam at 9:06 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Good on you to realize this.
I would happily pay $200 or even $400 to, say, go skydiving because that seems like a small price to pay for such an incredible experience.
I think I sense the problem: you've stated this as a hypothetical. Maybe you aren't spending the money on incredible experiences? Start doing that! Go skydiving. Travel half-way around the world. You can do that now if you don't spend on convenience. 40-80 trips to the slightly farther grocery store is a mild annoyance, but that $400 or more spent in a lump sum could be life-changing.
posted by flimflam at 9:06 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm also unclear on why this is a problem. Do you feel deprived or like you are living in hardship? Or do you just feel like you "should" spend more money on convenience because...why? Because other people do? Because the media tells you to? Because conveniences exist? A little more clarity on the source of your guilt might be helpful.
There is nothing wrong with spending $25K a year and banking the rest. Some people do it and retire before they're 40. If you are spending in accordance with your values, then you should not feel bad about your decisions.
I would keep an index card with your values written on it with you. When making spending decisions, pull that out and ask yourself, does this purchase further my values? If so, spend without guilt. If not, well, you are living your life the way you want.
posted by epanalepsis at 9:15 AM on March 30, 2015
There is nothing wrong with spending $25K a year and banking the rest. Some people do it and retire before they're 40. If you are spending in accordance with your values, then you should not feel bad about your decisions.
I would keep an index card with your values written on it with you. When making spending decisions, pull that out and ask yourself, does this purchase further my values? If so, spend without guilt. If not, well, you are living your life the way you want.
posted by epanalepsis at 9:15 AM on March 30, 2015
Response by poster: I've gone skydiving :) And done quite a bit of traveling too. So I don't think that's the issue.
I get how you're saying if I don't value rainjackets/apps/whatever, I shouldn't buy them. But I often get to the point where I do feel I need a whatever, but I twist myself in knots because I don't want to pay the money for it. Or because I don't want the experience of paying "too much" for something.
I once walked home for an hour in the rain, cold and wet and kind of miserable, because I didn't want to pay $15 for a cab. (In this case there was no public transportation available.) I got home much later than I wanted, I didn't get enough sleep and felt really groggy the next day, and my shoes were unwearable for the next week because they were soaked. I'd like to figure out how to avoid this situation and just pay the $15 and feel okay about it.
posted by Questolicious at 9:17 AM on March 30, 2015
I get how you're saying if I don't value rainjackets/apps/whatever, I shouldn't buy them. But I often get to the point where I do feel I need a whatever, but I twist myself in knots because I don't want to pay the money for it. Or because I don't want the experience of paying "too much" for something.
I once walked home for an hour in the rain, cold and wet and kind of miserable, because I didn't want to pay $15 for a cab. (In this case there was no public transportation available.) I got home much later than I wanted, I didn't get enough sleep and felt really groggy the next day, and my shoes were unwearable for the next week because they were soaked. I'd like to figure out how to avoid this situation and just pay the $15 and feel okay about it.
posted by Questolicious at 9:17 AM on March 30, 2015
I once walked home for an hour in the rain, cold and wet and kind of miserable, because I didn't want to pay $15 for a cab. (In this case there was no public transportation available.) I got home much later than I wanted, I didn't get enough sleep and felt really groggy the next day, and my shoes were unwearable for the next week because they were soaked. I'd like to figure out how to avoid this situation and just pay the $15 and feel okay about it.
Do you feel like you deserve to have convenience or not?
posted by josher71 at 9:19 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Do you feel like you deserve to have convenience or not?
posted by josher71 at 9:19 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: It's also socially awkward sometimes. I feel weird paying an extra few dollars when paying a group bill at a restaurant, for example when everyone has paid up but we're still collectively a bit short on tip, even though it would make a lot of people's lives easier to just pay it. Usually someone else just ends up paying the extra anyway, and they may not even make as much as I do, and it's about time I could make that kind of contribution once in a while and feel okay about it.
Even donating to charity would be nice.
posted by Questolicious at 9:22 AM on March 30, 2015
Even donating to charity would be nice.
posted by Questolicious at 9:22 AM on March 30, 2015
It seems like you're making this an either-or choice between a life of expensive hedonism or one of thrifty self-denial. In reality, it seems perfectly reasonable to conclude that you're now wealthy enough to pay for a certain amount of additional convenience in your life, without stepping onto some sort of slippery slope that will lead to Prodigal-Son-style penury. Moderation in all things, etc.
Why not just set aside a specific, affordable amount of money each month for use as a convenience fund, then promise yourself that once you've spent it all, it's public transit and grocery runs for you until the first of the next month?
posted by Bardolph at 9:26 AM on March 30, 2015 [17 favorites]
Why not just set aside a specific, affordable amount of money each month for use as a convenience fund, then promise yourself that once you've spent it all, it's public transit and grocery runs for you until the first of the next month?
posted by Bardolph at 9:26 AM on March 30, 2015 [17 favorites]
I think you could also frame this in terms of valuing your time, comfort, welfare.
So going to the local grocery store is probably quicker? How much is your time worth? How much is the transport cost to other place?
How much do you value being dry and comfortable? Does the new job entail longer hrs or higher stress levels? Something that allows you to move away from the cheapest option is the best one?
It is legitimate to want to have a nice comfortable home, even if your ugly, inherited, found on Craiglist furniture is perfectly functional. You're not a student any more, you're entitled to buying the things you want because you want them. If this stopped you from saving, making retirement provisions, caused you to run up credit card bills you should try to curb it. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
You could try to work out why you do not value your time, comfort, welfare enough to feel ok about non excessive non reckless spending.
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:27 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
So going to the local grocery store is probably quicker? How much is your time worth? How much is the transport cost to other place?
How much do you value being dry and comfortable? Does the new job entail longer hrs or higher stress levels? Something that allows you to move away from the cheapest option is the best one?
It is legitimate to want to have a nice comfortable home, even if your ugly, inherited, found on Craiglist furniture is perfectly functional. You're not a student any more, you're entitled to buying the things you want because you want them. If this stopped you from saving, making retirement provisions, caused you to run up credit card bills you should try to curb it. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
You could try to work out why you do not value your time, comfort, welfare enough to feel ok about non excessive non reckless spending.
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:27 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have had similar feelings. In my experience, this is a mindset best shifted by ... experience. So, in other words, it begins with taking the damn cab if you want to avoid getting soaked. And then waking up the next morning and realizing that you're not worse off for having spent $15 and, in fact, you're better off because you're not miserable.
Ditto with coughing up a few extra bucks if necessary for sharing a check at a restaurant. Think of how you've made a bunch of people a tiny bit happier. Or how you've avoided a tiny bit of awkwardness at very little cost to you.
If grocery delivery seems too extravagant, then maybe that's not on your own personal list of worthwhile things. But it seems like a cab is (in some circumstances).
Even when I've had extra disposable income, I've valued saving money on things I didn't view as necessities (so, putting off purchases, not getting expensive delivery options, etc.) But at the same time, I've come up with a short list of things that actually do make my life better and are worth paying for (and sometimes a cab definitely falls in that category.) I think it's a matter of starting slowly with a short list of things that you give yourself permission to spend extra money on, and taking it from there.
People spend money on all sorts of stupid crap. On the other hand, right now it sounds like you're far on one end of the continuum. There's nothing wrong with this, per se. But you can afford — financially and emotionally — to spend a certain amount of money on tiny luxuries without landing on the ridiculous other side of the continuum. You can spend more money on certain things and still preserve your frugal outlook and critical eye on spending.
posted by veggieboy at 9:32 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Ditto with coughing up a few extra bucks if necessary for sharing a check at a restaurant. Think of how you've made a bunch of people a tiny bit happier. Or how you've avoided a tiny bit of awkwardness at very little cost to you.
If grocery delivery seems too extravagant, then maybe that's not on your own personal list of worthwhile things. But it seems like a cab is (in some circumstances).
Even when I've had extra disposable income, I've valued saving money on things I didn't view as necessities (so, putting off purchases, not getting expensive delivery options, etc.) But at the same time, I've come up with a short list of things that actually do make my life better and are worth paying for (and sometimes a cab definitely falls in that category.) I think it's a matter of starting slowly with a short list of things that you give yourself permission to spend extra money on, and taking it from there.
People spend money on all sorts of stupid crap. On the other hand, right now it sounds like you're far on one end of the continuum. There's nothing wrong with this, per se. But you can afford — financially and emotionally — to spend a certain amount of money on tiny luxuries without landing on the ridiculous other side of the continuum. You can spend more money on certain things and still preserve your frugal outlook and critical eye on spending.
posted by veggieboy at 9:32 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
When you find yourself avoiding making a purchase that you deem as "just for convenience sake", remind yourself that your time has real value. You are gainfully employed. Your time is worth at least $xx. Does taking the cab save you more than $xx if you were being paid? Then it's probably smart to do it. You obviously aren't paid 24/7, but the downtime when you're not working is necessary for you to be productive at what you are paid for. By all means, limit material purchases because they won't bring you happiness. But don't make yourself miserable. It sounds to me like there might be a little bit of imposter syndrome behind this question. Work on feeling more secure in the value of your skills and time, and you'll feel better about making small purchases for your own comfort.
posted by cosmicbandito at 9:33 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by cosmicbandito at 9:33 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I feel like the answer to this probably lies in setting aside some money each month for "convenience spending." But how much? How do you decide? Even if I had a goal like "retire in 10 years" and then extrapolated how much I had to save based on that, I'm drawn back to the thought "but if I save even more, then I can retire even sooner, like maybe 8 years instead of 10!"
The goal is to find the right equilibrium between saving enough to be happy in the future and spending enough to be happy now. Where does this equilibrium fall? Well, that's different for everyone -- it depends on one's long-term life goals, how much one wants luxuries, and how much one makes. So, the problem you're facing is: given who you are and what you want, what is the right equilibrium?
All I really did here was restate the question you asked, but hopefully it's a re-statement that allows you to understand your problem in a more useful light. You're not looking for the correct amount. Instead, you're looking for the comfortable-specifically-for-you amount. And, like all things where the answer comes down to personal preferences, the way you figure out what to do is experiment with your options.
Over the course of the next several months or year (or..however long it takes you), experiment with different budgets. Try the extremely frugal budget (where you save just about everything and end up walking in the cold rain to avoid money on a taxi), try the extremely spendy budget (where you put only the absolute minimum you can feel comfortable with and use up all the rest on luxuries), try places in between. Set out for yourself that it will be the year/months of experimentation, and it's okay if your spending plan gets a little bit irregular during those months. This experimentation will help you figure out what sort of lifestyle is the most comfortable for you. Then, once you've pinned down where you're most comfortable, you'll have a baseline to use when figuring out for long-term plans ("Well, I could retire in 8 years, but that means cutting down on luxuries in a way I don't like.." or "Well, I could budget for daily taxi rides, but I really want to save up for a big trip in two years..." or.. whatever).
In the end, the questions you're asking have to do with what it is you value, what it is you want. And it sounds like, right now, you don't really know what you want because you don't have experience with much extra money. Give yourself a chance to get that experience, and then use that to make the financial decisions that are right for you.
posted by meese at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
The goal is to find the right equilibrium between saving enough to be happy in the future and spending enough to be happy now. Where does this equilibrium fall? Well, that's different for everyone -- it depends on one's long-term life goals, how much one wants luxuries, and how much one makes. So, the problem you're facing is: given who you are and what you want, what is the right equilibrium?
All I really did here was restate the question you asked, but hopefully it's a re-statement that allows you to understand your problem in a more useful light. You're not looking for the correct amount. Instead, you're looking for the comfortable-specifically-for-you amount. And, like all things where the answer comes down to personal preferences, the way you figure out what to do is experiment with your options.
Over the course of the next several months or year (or..however long it takes you), experiment with different budgets. Try the extremely frugal budget (where you save just about everything and end up walking in the cold rain to avoid money on a taxi), try the extremely spendy budget (where you put only the absolute minimum you can feel comfortable with and use up all the rest on luxuries), try places in between. Set out for yourself that it will be the year/months of experimentation, and it's okay if your spending plan gets a little bit irregular during those months. This experimentation will help you figure out what sort of lifestyle is the most comfortable for you. Then, once you've pinned down where you're most comfortable, you'll have a baseline to use when figuring out for long-term plans ("Well, I could retire in 8 years, but that means cutting down on luxuries in a way I don't like.." or "Well, I could budget for daily taxi rides, but I really want to save up for a big trip in two years..." or.. whatever).
In the end, the questions you're asking have to do with what it is you value, what it is you want. And it sounds like, right now, you don't really know what you want because you don't have experience with much extra money. Give yourself a chance to get that experience, and then use that to make the financial decisions that are right for you.
posted by meese at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
One thing I find useful when having this reaction is to really be mindful about recognizing the advantages you've gained -- noticing and acknowledging, either to yourself or out loud, that the non-essential soft slippers are the best thing about shuffling around in the morning, or that you have half an hour extra to enjoy reading your book instead of schlepping to the store, or that you get through a storm completely dry thanks to the new raincoat, or that you really do live in the future with your smartphone weather app.
You say giving to charity would be nice -- would you be motivated to give more to charity by "matching" your convenience spending with donations, so every time you spend $15 for a cab you're also putting $15 towards doing good for someone else too?
posted by nonane at 9:38 AM on March 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
You say giving to charity would be nice -- would you be motivated to give more to charity by "matching" your convenience spending with donations, so every time you spend $15 for a cab you're also putting $15 towards doing good for someone else too?
posted by nonane at 9:38 AM on March 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: would you be motivated to give more to charity by "matching" your convenience spending with donations, so every time you spend $15 for a cab you're also putting $15 towards doing good for someone else too?
This is brilliant. BRILLIANT.
posted by Questolicious at 9:42 AM on March 30, 2015 [13 favorites]
This is brilliant. BRILLIANT.
posted by Questolicious at 9:42 AM on March 30, 2015 [13 favorites]
I'm super cheap by nature , too, but now at a point in my life where it's financially okay for me to spend more money. My weird little cognitive trick is to convince myself that I'm spending money to "stimulate the local economy." If you spend wisely, your money benefits both you and the person from whom you are buying goods and services, and as a person with disposable income, you have the power to support businesses that are making a better world.
- buying my favorite food for $15 at the grocery store next to my house, when I know I could get it for $10 at my preferred grocery store, though it's harder to get to so I visit it more rarely
This helps your local grocery stay afloat, which provides convenient access to nutritional food for all the people in your neighborhood.
- buying more attractive furniture for my bedroom even though what I have now is perfectly functional, it's just ugly and I'm tired of it
Buy some nice furniture from a company that sources materials sustainably and pays its workers well.
- taking a cab home from the airport if it's late and raining, even if public transportation is available
- paying for Instacart grocery delivery, which costs 35% more but eliminates my least favorite errand
Provides a livelihood to the cab driver and grocery delivery person.
And so on...
posted by BrashTech at 9:42 AM on March 30, 2015 [18 favorites]
- buying my favorite food for $15 at the grocery store next to my house, when I know I could get it for $10 at my preferred grocery store, though it's harder to get to so I visit it more rarely
This helps your local grocery stay afloat, which provides convenient access to nutritional food for all the people in your neighborhood.
- buying more attractive furniture for my bedroom even though what I have now is perfectly functional, it's just ugly and I'm tired of it
Buy some nice furniture from a company that sources materials sustainably and pays its workers well.
- taking a cab home from the airport if it's late and raining, even if public transportation is available
- paying for Instacart grocery delivery, which costs 35% more but eliminates my least favorite errand
Provides a livelihood to the cab driver and grocery delivery person.
And so on...
posted by BrashTech at 9:42 AM on March 30, 2015 [18 favorites]
I know from experience that paying for these things won't really make me happier.
I once walked home for an hour in the rain ... I got home much later than I wanted, I didn't get enough sleep and felt really groggy the next day, and my shoes were unwearable for the next week because they were soaked.
Seems to me you should also now know from experience that $15 for a cab in certain circumstances will make you much happier. It's good to know that material things do not equal happiness, but you could try to remember that immaterial things like saving your time, being generous with your friends (or strangers), appreciating beautiful art or technology are worth something too. If it helps, try quantifying some of the easier things (value of time saved is easier, dollar value of generosity is harder.)
Also, the value judgement you place on not spending money stood out to me. The Everyman walking in the rain and cold is not doing it for fun or moral development, and would probably just as soon jump in a cab given the opportunity. You shouldn't feel bad because you have opportunities.
posted by yeahlikethat at 9:52 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I once walked home for an hour in the rain ... I got home much later than I wanted, I didn't get enough sleep and felt really groggy the next day, and my shoes were unwearable for the next week because they were soaked.
Seems to me you should also now know from experience that $15 for a cab in certain circumstances will make you much happier. It's good to know that material things do not equal happiness, but you could try to remember that immaterial things like saving your time, being generous with your friends (or strangers), appreciating beautiful art or technology are worth something too. If it helps, try quantifying some of the easier things (value of time saved is easier, dollar value of generosity is harder.)
Also, the value judgement you place on not spending money stood out to me. The Everyman walking in the rain and cold is not doing it for fun or moral development, and would probably just as soon jump in a cab given the opportunity. You shouldn't feel bad because you have opportunities.
posted by yeahlikethat at 9:52 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I feel you with the taxis, I can't imagine the extravagance of paying for a black cab even though I do get minicabs if I have to (travelling late at night etc). It just feels so wasteful. We also soldered our broken washing machine when it broke instead of buying a new one, and I would go a long way out of my way to save money on essentials. My car is 11 years old. I don't like to feel I've thrown money away. I'm from a middle-class background but my parents were respectable working class who worked their way up - that's where I get it from.
When I do have to spend money, the way I've framed it is to think about unseen costs - the cost in my time, or the cost of the alternative. Say I'm paid £25 per hour, and taking two night buses takes me an extra hour to get home. I'd be better off spending £25 on a taxi and getting home earlier. If I spend £200 on a handbag that I use every day for three years, that's 18p per use. A plastic carrier bag would cost more than that. I bought a £700 bike a few years ago, and regularly spend loads on all of the accompanying jerseys, cleated shoes, waterproofs, helmets, cool lights - but it's saved me so much money in train fares and gym memberships because I really enjoy riding it and commute by bike whenever I can. I must seriously have saved a couple of thousand pounds over the years. That wouldn't be the case if I'd bought a crappy old beater that was the wrong size and squeaked, and wore a leaky poncho.
I'm also quite happy to spend a fortune on other people, so our family buy each other's major purchases (laptops, skiing equipment, major house stuff) as christmas presents from a wishlist. That way we can have the things we want with no guilt about overspending.
posted by tinkletown at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
When I do have to spend money, the way I've framed it is to think about unseen costs - the cost in my time, or the cost of the alternative. Say I'm paid £25 per hour, and taking two night buses takes me an extra hour to get home. I'd be better off spending £25 on a taxi and getting home earlier. If I spend £200 on a handbag that I use every day for three years, that's 18p per use. A plastic carrier bag would cost more than that. I bought a £700 bike a few years ago, and regularly spend loads on all of the accompanying jerseys, cleated shoes, waterproofs, helmets, cool lights - but it's saved me so much money in train fares and gym memberships because I really enjoy riding it and commute by bike whenever I can. I must seriously have saved a couple of thousand pounds over the years. That wouldn't be the case if I'd bought a crappy old beater that was the wrong size and squeaked, and wore a leaky poncho.
I'm also quite happy to spend a fortune on other people, so our family buy each other's major purchases (laptops, skiing equipment, major house stuff) as christmas presents from a wishlist. That way we can have the things we want with no guilt about overspending.
posted by tinkletown at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm super cheap by nature , too, but now at a point in my life where it's financially okay for me to spend more money. My weird little cognitive trick is to convince myself that I'm spending money to "stimulate the local economy."
I am a miser and I've gone through points in my life when I was very overpaid and yet still had a hard time with spending money even if I "had" it because I always worried I'd need it for later when it was "important" However I'm not even that good at that. I had some medical bills recently (not huge ones) and was still a tightwad about incurring expense and paying these things and that's nominally what the money is FOR. So hey I feel you, here are some things that work for me
- BrashTech's thing above. Part of having more money is spreading it around. Want to keep your local coffee shop open? Spend some money there. Enjoy that there is a farmer's market in town, go buy some things, even if they're like ... gift soaps or something that you maybe don't NEED.
- Some reflective time recalling times in the past when you've spent money and it hasn't materially affected your "bottom line" So if you feel like you can toss in an extra few bucks so you don't stiff the waitress, that's a social good. Did you notice it the next week when you went to pay the electric bill? No you probably didn't. Everyone's got an amount of money that to them is "small change" For some people this is literally change, for others it's a buck or two, or five, or twenty. Money that can just go to smoothing things over. Maybe your line used to be a buck. Maybe now it should be $20 so you get in that cab and realize you won't miss the money but you would appreciate not being all RARAR at work the next day
- Value your time. This doesn't mean that you have to like bill people for it, but sometimes convenience is worth it. People can get extreme and be ridiculous (driving cross town to save five cents a gallon on gasoline is probably spending more than you save) and you should have a sort of "normal" set point for yourself as if you are a person who has a higher standard of living. I, too, would walk in the rain to avoid a cab and I try now to talk myself out of bad choices like that.
- debt and savings - Pay off your debts. Take more money out of your paycheck and put it aside either in investments or an IRA or something similar. Take a certain amount out and have it go to charity before you even see it. This is money that you "set and forget" and then it doesn't fall prey to your dithering about it. This way you know the things you care about are being handled.
- Satisficers vs optimizers - sometimes it helps me frame my money choices this way. Satisficers sort of set a point at which buying something makes sense to them (like "I need a raincoat, I don't want to pay more than $30. This is a $30 raincoat ergo it fits the conditions and I will buy it and feel okay". Optimizers want the best deal and can often fret forever if they, say, want a perfect raincoat, they may never find the right combo of price and features and then get wet forever. This is nuts. Try to make more of your purchasers fit a satisficer's mold and sort of force yourself into it. It's hard but them you will actually BUY a raincoat, for example.
- your own values - It seems like you know what you like, you just have a hard time managing your feelings around money and that stuff. Like why shouldn't you have furniture you like, an app that is cool and grocery delivery? I think you can have a critique of conspicuous consumption and also realize there's no zero point. You literally can't spend nothing. Given that, you should figure out the thing you DO value spending money on and the things you DON'T. Be frugal in the places you don't care about. Splurge in the areas you do care about.
Also unrelatedly, think about whether you may have some free floating anxiety around this issue generally and whether that might be part of it. Being less secure=feeling generally for whatever reason, can make a lot of other things like this tougher to deal with.
posted by jessamyn at 9:58 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I am a miser and I've gone through points in my life when I was very overpaid and yet still had a hard time with spending money even if I "had" it because I always worried I'd need it for later when it was "important" However I'm not even that good at that. I had some medical bills recently (not huge ones) and was still a tightwad about incurring expense and paying these things and that's nominally what the money is FOR. So hey I feel you, here are some things that work for me
- BrashTech's thing above. Part of having more money is spreading it around. Want to keep your local coffee shop open? Spend some money there. Enjoy that there is a farmer's market in town, go buy some things, even if they're like ... gift soaps or something that you maybe don't NEED.
- Some reflective time recalling times in the past when you've spent money and it hasn't materially affected your "bottom line" So if you feel like you can toss in an extra few bucks so you don't stiff the waitress, that's a social good. Did you notice it the next week when you went to pay the electric bill? No you probably didn't. Everyone's got an amount of money that to them is "small change" For some people this is literally change, for others it's a buck or two, or five, or twenty. Money that can just go to smoothing things over. Maybe your line used to be a buck. Maybe now it should be $20 so you get in that cab and realize you won't miss the money but you would appreciate not being all RARAR at work the next day
- Value your time. This doesn't mean that you have to like bill people for it, but sometimes convenience is worth it. People can get extreme and be ridiculous (driving cross town to save five cents a gallon on gasoline is probably spending more than you save) and you should have a sort of "normal" set point for yourself as if you are a person who has a higher standard of living. I, too, would walk in the rain to avoid a cab and I try now to talk myself out of bad choices like that.
- debt and savings - Pay off your debts. Take more money out of your paycheck and put it aside either in investments or an IRA or something similar. Take a certain amount out and have it go to charity before you even see it. This is money that you "set and forget" and then it doesn't fall prey to your dithering about it. This way you know the things you care about are being handled.
- Satisficers vs optimizers - sometimes it helps me frame my money choices this way. Satisficers sort of set a point at which buying something makes sense to them (like "I need a raincoat, I don't want to pay more than $30. This is a $30 raincoat ergo it fits the conditions and I will buy it and feel okay". Optimizers want the best deal and can often fret forever if they, say, want a perfect raincoat, they may never find the right combo of price and features and then get wet forever. This is nuts. Try to make more of your purchasers fit a satisficer's mold and sort of force yourself into it. It's hard but them you will actually BUY a raincoat, for example.
- your own values - It seems like you know what you like, you just have a hard time managing your feelings around money and that stuff. Like why shouldn't you have furniture you like, an app that is cool and grocery delivery? I think you can have a critique of conspicuous consumption and also realize there's no zero point. You literally can't spend nothing. Given that, you should figure out the thing you DO value spending money on and the things you DON'T. Be frugal in the places you don't care about. Splurge in the areas you do care about.
Also unrelatedly, think about whether you may have some free floating anxiety around this issue generally and whether that might be part of it. Being less secure=feeling generally for whatever reason, can make a lot of other things like this tougher to deal with.
posted by jessamyn at 9:58 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I've had this problem, both when I didn't have money and now that I do have some. The guilty feeling has abated to some degree with time and getting used to new circumstances, but not entirely. I have actually had to practice spending money and telling myself, "this is OK."
Budgeting might help in the short term, if you don't do that already. Plan out your purchases by category. Give yourself a good, solid clothing budget, a transport budget, an indulgence food budget, etc. Maybe invovle a friend who can help you with "a reasonable amount to spend on X would be...". Don't track your spending; just make the budget as an exercise in perspective.
The real issue is your overly strict personal standards. Your standards are telling you it's not ever OK to take shortcuts. Maybe they are telling you it's foolish to pay more than you need to for anything. Maybe they're telling you it's a weakness to give in to convenience. This is something you may want to examine with a professional.
posted by zennie at 10:17 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Budgeting might help in the short term, if you don't do that already. Plan out your purchases by category. Give yourself a good, solid clothing budget, a transport budget, an indulgence food budget, etc. Maybe invovle a friend who can help you with "a reasonable amount to spend on X would be...". Don't track your spending; just make the budget as an exercise in perspective.
The real issue is your overly strict personal standards. Your standards are telling you it's not ever OK to take shortcuts. Maybe they are telling you it's foolish to pay more than you need to for anything. Maybe they're telling you it's a weakness to give in to convenience. This is something you may want to examine with a professional.
posted by zennie at 10:17 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's a lot of good advice in this thread. The one thing I'd add is that you need to learn how to feel like you are worth these expenditures. Maybe that's something you investigate through reading, maybe it's something that you can get through therapy, but it really sounds like you feel like you don't deserve these things. None of these are extravagant. You've taken care of the important things, and you really deserve to spend a little more to make your life more comfortable.
posted by advicepig at 10:18 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by advicepig at 10:18 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Every time you make one of those purchases that bothers you, balance it out with a donation to a very good charity that helps with something close to your heart. You could throw cash donations or IOUs into a cookie jar and make the real donation once a year.
You wouldn't necessarily have to match convenience purchase dollars with donation dollars one to one. Just decide for yourself, case by case, how much this taxi trip or snack food purchase is going to cost you in donation dollars.
posted by pracowity at 10:48 AM on March 30, 2015
You wouldn't necessarily have to match convenience purchase dollars with donation dollars one to one. Just decide for yourself, case by case, how much this taxi trip or snack food purchase is going to cost you in donation dollars.
posted by pracowity at 10:48 AM on March 30, 2015
I TOTALLY get you. I have been uberfrugal for so long that it feels wrong to pay full price for eggs at the grocery store when I know I can get them 49 cents cheaper up the road at Aldi. There have been times in my life that the tradeoff of time vs money would have made sense for me to make an extra trip, too.
But I am not at that place in my life right now. I have a toddler and an infant and making more than one stop for groceries is just not gonna happen. So I pay more for pretty much everything and try not to think about it. I know I can return to my frugal ways later when my time is at less of a premium.
The way I came to terms with this was to actually do a cost-benefit analysis. I expect with a higher-paying job, you have compromised something else - free time, stress levels, something. It always seems to work like that. So actually sit down and calculate the value of what you are saving by paying for convenience. In my case, the money I would save doing two grocery runs added up to about minimum wage for the time it would take. But it would skyrocket my stress level during that time. Would I accept minimum wage for such a high stress job? NO! So I pay for convenience and thank my nerdy stars that I know why I'm doing it.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 10:53 AM on March 30, 2015
But I am not at that place in my life right now. I have a toddler and an infant and making more than one stop for groceries is just not gonna happen. So I pay more for pretty much everything and try not to think about it. I know I can return to my frugal ways later when my time is at less of a premium.
The way I came to terms with this was to actually do a cost-benefit analysis. I expect with a higher-paying job, you have compromised something else - free time, stress levels, something. It always seems to work like that. So actually sit down and calculate the value of what you are saving by paying for convenience. In my case, the money I would save doing two grocery runs added up to about minimum wage for the time it would take. But it would skyrocket my stress level during that time. Would I accept minimum wage for such a high stress job? NO! So I pay for convenience and thank my nerdy stars that I know why I'm doing it.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 10:53 AM on March 30, 2015
But I often get to the point where I do feel I need a whatever, but I twist myself in knots because I don't want to pay the money for it.
You should be aware that this is a different issue than what you described in your original post, and a different problem.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
You should be aware that this is a different issue than what you described in your original post, and a different problem.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
it really sounds like you feel like you don't deserve these things
That was my read too. You put yourself through that much punishment because you don't deserve a cab ride. Would you expect a friend to walk home rather than pay? Do you think airports should have fewer cabs and more sidewalks? Or is it just you?
(This is why I think the "tie your purchases to charity donations" line of thinking is not maybe the most functional way to handle this, because at what point are you going to be broke or unable to work because the car you need technically costs double the price tag? You're just adding another weird layer of punishment.)
I think a lot of people go through this for a little while after a big jump in income, but if you can't even bring yourself to make smart choices because they seem too much like luxuries, you may benefit from working with a professional to practice decision-making skills that are more productive.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
That was my read too. You put yourself through that much punishment because you don't deserve a cab ride. Would you expect a friend to walk home rather than pay? Do you think airports should have fewer cabs and more sidewalks? Or is it just you?
(This is why I think the "tie your purchases to charity donations" line of thinking is not maybe the most functional way to handle this, because at what point are you going to be broke or unable to work because the car you need technically costs double the price tag? You're just adding another weird layer of punishment.)
I think a lot of people go through this for a little while after a big jump in income, but if you can't even bring yourself to make smart choices because they seem too much like luxuries, you may benefit from working with a professional to practice decision-making skills that are more productive.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Lots of good advice upthread. Just wanted to mention that you could also practice spending on convenience on a weekly or monthly basis (not budget based but occasion based). As in, you decide to practice treating yourself more kindly X number of times over the next X number of weeks.
Just another approach. Matching funds for charities, also super smart. Please, please max out your retirement savings. As someone who has virtually none, I wish I had done that when I was younger. Finally, why should you live with furniture you don't like? Life is short. Why not surround yourself with lasting, quality furniture that you love? You can start with one item and work your way up if it's too anxiety producing to buy all new furniture now. But seriously, you can donate the stuff you don't like to a charity and save up to buy sustainably produced (if that matters to you) furniture that you really like.
I remember when I thought I was obligated to buy the cheapest things always and live with things I hated because they worked well enough. I don't do that anymore because I want to love myself and my home and feel good about the space I occupy. That is not a crime. Best of luck in working through this.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:00 AM on March 30, 2015
Just another approach. Matching funds for charities, also super smart. Please, please max out your retirement savings. As someone who has virtually none, I wish I had done that when I was younger. Finally, why should you live with furniture you don't like? Life is short. Why not surround yourself with lasting, quality furniture that you love? You can start with one item and work your way up if it's too anxiety producing to buy all new furniture now. But seriously, you can donate the stuff you don't like to a charity and save up to buy sustainably produced (if that matters to you) furniture that you really like.
I remember when I thought I was obligated to buy the cheapest things always and live with things I hated because they worked well enough. I don't do that anymore because I want to love myself and my home and feel good about the space I occupy. That is not a crime. Best of luck in working through this.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:00 AM on March 30, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks, these answers are all really helpful. A number of posters have asked about whether I feel I "deserve" these things. Yeah, there's a bit of that in there (especially during times of stress/anxiety), but mostly I think spending has just never been part of my routine, and I kind of see it as "selling out" and relying on something/someone/society to do the work for me rather than doing it myself. Especially since I usually enjoy walking/using my body's strength and abilities/being outside.
I'm often amazed at people around me who complain that they have to walk 10 minutes to the subway, for example, which seems a rather reasonable time/distance to me. My preferred solution to taking a cab in the rain would have been to bring a better umbrella or to have a rainjacket with me, but I didn't have them at the time.
That's only one category of spending, though. The fact that I still have trouble with giving a few extra bucks for a shared bill at a social outing indicates there's something else going on too that I should investigate - thanks for pointing that out.
posted by Questolicious at 11:25 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm often amazed at people around me who complain that they have to walk 10 minutes to the subway, for example, which seems a rather reasonable time/distance to me. My preferred solution to taking a cab in the rain would have been to bring a better umbrella or to have a rainjacket with me, but I didn't have them at the time.
That's only one category of spending, though. The fact that I still have trouble with giving a few extra bucks for a shared bill at a social outing indicates there's something else going on too that I should investigate - thanks for pointing that out.
posted by Questolicious at 11:25 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I still have trouble with giving a few extra bucks for a shared bill at a social outing
Do you feel like you're being show-offy or that people will think badly of you, or try to take advantage of you? People have a lot of personal (and often family/cultural) mythology around money, and that may be some of what you're wrestling with.
I have a lot of worries about being "that guy" and have done the thing where I go "hey, you know what, I might not have put enough in, just take this $10 so I'll be sure".
It can be useful to just question yourself, when you find yourself not spending money for whatever reason, whether there's a ghost you're fighting instead of making a decision on the actual merits.
Money is weird and people are weird about it.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:40 AM on March 30, 2015
Do you feel like you're being show-offy or that people will think badly of you, or try to take advantage of you? People have a lot of personal (and often family/cultural) mythology around money, and that may be some of what you're wrestling with.
I have a lot of worries about being "that guy" and have done the thing where I go "hey, you know what, I might not have put enough in, just take this $10 so I'll be sure".
It can be useful to just question yourself, when you find yourself not spending money for whatever reason, whether there's a ghost you're fighting instead of making a decision on the actual merits.
Money is weird and people are weird about it.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:40 AM on March 30, 2015
I kind of see it as "selling out" and relying on something/someone/society to do the work for me rather than doing it myself. Especially since I usually enjoy walking/using my body's strength and abilities/being outside.
Being part of modern society means that we all necessarliy rely on each other ALL of the time. The fact that you get any food from a store means this is true. It is a necessary part of living in society.
Maybe try to reframe it like this: You have a job where you do work in exchange for money. When you spend that money on a thing or service you are *doing* it yourself. You just stored away some of the doing effort ahead of time.
You are just trading your skills, abilities, and time at one task for someone else's skills, abilities, and time towards another task. It can actually be more costly to you to avoid paying someone else who may be more efficient or better suited to a particular service or good.
As many others have already mentioned, you just have to decide which things fall into which category and will provide you with the most value.
posted by Shanda at 12:10 PM on March 30, 2015
Being part of modern society means that we all necessarliy rely on each other ALL of the time. The fact that you get any food from a store means this is true. It is a necessary part of living in society.
Maybe try to reframe it like this: You have a job where you do work in exchange for money. When you spend that money on a thing or service you are *doing* it yourself. You just stored away some of the doing effort ahead of time.
You are just trading your skills, abilities, and time at one task for someone else's skills, abilities, and time towards another task. It can actually be more costly to you to avoid paying someone else who may be more efficient or better suited to a particular service or good.
As many others have already mentioned, you just have to decide which things fall into which category and will provide you with the most value.
posted by Shanda at 12:10 PM on March 30, 2015
The fact that I still have trouble with giving a few extra bucks for a shared bill at a social outing indicates there's something else going on too that I should investigate - thanks for pointing that out.
Yes, given that you do have the money, that might be the line where you cross from "frugal" to "miserly". The former, is, IMO, an excellent trait. The latter, not so much. I personally would think about those expenditures first, before other purchases, because it's an excellent thing to be able to contribute a little more to a group bill, or tip an extra couple of dollars when you can afford to.
posted by gaspode at 12:10 PM on March 30, 2015
Yes, given that you do have the money, that might be the line where you cross from "frugal" to "miserly". The former, is, IMO, an excellent trait. The latter, not so much. I personally would think about those expenditures first, before other purchases, because it's an excellent thing to be able to contribute a little more to a group bill, or tip an extra couple of dollars when you can afford to.
posted by gaspode at 12:10 PM on March 30, 2015
It sounds like you're experiencing some distress about how to draw the line between taking care of your needs and honoring your values now that your resources are greater and there's actually a decision to be made. If you can't afford a cab, you can't afford it in rain or shine. But if you can afford it, suddenly you have to decide whether to spend the money. So a new stress.
I deal with a lot of my stress by imagining what I would do if there were a child in the situation I am in. For example, when I have work to do that I don't want to do, I get stressed and tend to be mean to myself about it. But if I imagine a child who is cranky and doesn't want to do work, I am not inclined to be mean to that child. That helps me calibrate how I want to deal with myself in the same situation.
If you had a child with the equivalent want, would you spend the money? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, right? Maybe if you had a child who wanted prettier furniture, you'd say no way - but if your child were walking home with you in the rain, you might spring for a cab. Putting it in those terms may make it easier to see which decision - to spend or not to spend - is closer to your values, because it may sharpen the stakes where thrift conflicts with self care. I know you're a tough rugged do-it-yourself strong powerful adult, but you are also a valuable, wonderful, loveable, delightful human, and you deserve to be taken care of with warmth and kindness and occasional pampering. I personally advocate that you treat yourself, at least when the going gets tough (or rainy), with the kindness and generosity you would show to a child with the same desires.
posted by prefpara at 12:42 PM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
I deal with a lot of my stress by imagining what I would do if there were a child in the situation I am in. For example, when I have work to do that I don't want to do, I get stressed and tend to be mean to myself about it. But if I imagine a child who is cranky and doesn't want to do work, I am not inclined to be mean to that child. That helps me calibrate how I want to deal with myself in the same situation.
If you had a child with the equivalent want, would you spend the money? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, right? Maybe if you had a child who wanted prettier furniture, you'd say no way - but if your child were walking home with you in the rain, you might spring for a cab. Putting it in those terms may make it easier to see which decision - to spend or not to spend - is closer to your values, because it may sharpen the stakes where thrift conflicts with self care. I know you're a tough rugged do-it-yourself strong powerful adult, but you are also a valuable, wonderful, loveable, delightful human, and you deserve to be taken care of with warmth and kindness and occasional pampering. I personally advocate that you treat yourself, at least when the going gets tough (or rainy), with the kindness and generosity you would show to a child with the same desires.
posted by prefpara at 12:42 PM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Congratulations, you now make enough money to start valuing you're time more than the almighty dollar. YOu need to reframe your thinking so that you can see value in more free time. Your convenience spending isn't wasting money, its buying you time. So many underpaid people waste so much time just trying to chase around things to make ends meet. you can now buy time. to your specific examples:
- buying my favorite food for $15 at the grocery store next to my house, when I know I could get it for $10 at my preferred grocery store, though it's harder to get to so I visit it more rarely
You just saved TIME. you can use this time to enjoy your food.
- buying more attractive furniture for my bedroom even though what I have now is perfectly functional, it's just ugly and I'm tired of it
eh, won't really save you time. MAybe save this for a special treat like a birthday present to yourself or make it a game to pick out what you want then poach it on sale
- taking a cab home from the airport if it's late and raining, even if public transportation is available
You just saved time both in travel and being less disheveled at your destination.
- paying for Instacart grocery delivery, which costs 35% more but eliminates my least favorite errand
You just saved time. This time used to suck, but now it can be awesome.
- replacing my rain jacket, which still works well enough for the few times a year I use it but is losing its waterproofness (tried Nik-Wax, it didn't help) and the lining is peeling off
A rainjacket that is not waterproof? LEts not fool ourselves here.
- buying the Dark Sky smartphone app which has pretty graphs and tells you when the rain will start and makes me feel like I'm living in the future, even though all I really need is the current/high/low temperatures and the stock Weather app does that just fine
This could save you time by letting you know the best travel times (lower congestion when not everyone is trying to get out of the rain).
Time is awesome. You can do so much with time that you can't do with money,.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:43 PM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
- buying my favorite food for $15 at the grocery store next to my house, when I know I could get it for $10 at my preferred grocery store, though it's harder to get to so I visit it more rarely
You just saved TIME. you can use this time to enjoy your food.
- buying more attractive furniture for my bedroom even though what I have now is perfectly functional, it's just ugly and I'm tired of it
eh, won't really save you time. MAybe save this for a special treat like a birthday present to yourself or make it a game to pick out what you want then poach it on sale
- taking a cab home from the airport if it's late and raining, even if public transportation is available
You just saved time both in travel and being less disheveled at your destination.
- paying for Instacart grocery delivery, which costs 35% more but eliminates my least favorite errand
You just saved time. This time used to suck, but now it can be awesome.
- replacing my rain jacket, which still works well enough for the few times a year I use it but is losing its waterproofness (tried Nik-Wax, it didn't help) and the lining is peeling off
A rainjacket that is not waterproof? LEts not fool ourselves here.
- buying the Dark Sky smartphone app which has pretty graphs and tells you when the rain will start and makes me feel like I'm living in the future, even though all I really need is the current/high/low temperatures and the stock Weather app does that just fine
This could save you time by letting you know the best travel times (lower congestion when not everyone is trying to get out of the rain).
Time is awesome. You can do so much with time that you can't do with money,.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:43 PM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Could you work on getting yourself to reframe your more indulgent purchases in terms of how the extra money will benefit someone else? I think this would help you with the feeling of "the man has won".
For instance, if you buy the Dark Sky app, those developers get more money for the product they worked hard on. If you take a cab and tip well, that driver benefited from your choice. If you buy higher quality furniture, you could choose pieces so that your purchase will benefit a professional craftsperson rather than some big-box store.
posted by augustimagination at 1:06 PM on March 30, 2015
For instance, if you buy the Dark Sky app, those developers get more money for the product they worked hard on. If you take a cab and tip well, that driver benefited from your choice. If you buy higher quality furniture, you could choose pieces so that your purchase will benefit a professional craftsperson rather than some big-box store.
posted by augustimagination at 1:06 PM on March 30, 2015
In addition, for the furniture you can donate your current furniture to Goodwill or another organization after buying newer stuff. Then your choice not only gets you furniture you're happier with, but provides some decent furniture that's in good condition for people who have trouble affording nicer stuff. Win for everyone!
posted by augustimagination at 1:12 PM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by augustimagination at 1:12 PM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Go you for asking about this. I feel you, and I think you've stated several of the key ingredients, including:
I feel like I've gone against my own values, disregarded my own identity.
Spending money on conveniences = betraying yourself - no Wonder it's not fun! And the charity thing sounds almost like you're... punishing yourself for giving in to that desire to betray your old way of thinking. Like penance. I used to be like this. Did I ever judge people who paid others to clean their houses when they were able-bodied and could save that money by doing it themselves. A lot of it was anxiety, and identity, and believing that I'm a Frugal Person who would never do that. That translated into being a better human being (ie it came out of a place of low self-esteem).
I'm always pushing therapy on askme with example of things it helped me do (get a better job, better relationships, etc) - and I should probably credit it with enabling me to feel like I am a good human being... even though I'm now paying other people to clean my home. I'm still a cheap bastard about random things (oh, the public transport trips we've taken when we could've just cabbed it!); it's still part of my values.
But so is generosity (at restaurants with friends, with servers, other tips). So is giving myself a home and clothes that make me feel comfortable.
posted by ldthomps at 1:17 PM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I feel like I've gone against my own values, disregarded my own identity.
Spending money on conveniences = betraying yourself - no Wonder it's not fun! And the charity thing sounds almost like you're... punishing yourself for giving in to that desire to betray your old way of thinking. Like penance. I used to be like this. Did I ever judge people who paid others to clean their houses when they were able-bodied and could save that money by doing it themselves. A lot of it was anxiety, and identity, and believing that I'm a Frugal Person who would never do that. That translated into being a better human being (ie it came out of a place of low self-esteem).
I'm always pushing therapy on askme with example of things it helped me do (get a better job, better relationships, etc) - and I should probably credit it with enabling me to feel like I am a good human being... even though I'm now paying other people to clean my home. I'm still a cheap bastard about random things (oh, the public transport trips we've taken when we could've just cabbed it!); it's still part of my values.
But so is generosity (at restaurants with friends, with servers, other tips). So is giving myself a home and clothes that make me feel comfortable.
posted by ldthomps at 1:17 PM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Every time you spend money, you're helping someone else earn a living. Instead of letting all your money pile up for you to bathe in a-la Scrooge McDuck, you're setting it free to circulate 'round.
When you take a taxi, go to a restaurant, or get food delivered, tip generously. It will make someone else's life a bit nicer in exchange for making your life a bit nicer. It's a win-win.
posted by BungaDunga at 4:01 PM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
When you take a taxi, go to a restaurant, or get food delivered, tip generously. It will make someone else's life a bit nicer in exchange for making your life a bit nicer. It's a win-win.
posted by BungaDunga at 4:01 PM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have a friend who's a Philosophy and Economics double-major. The other day he said something quite inspired and simultaneously terrifying*.
He said that he sees money, and its uses, as something that fundamentally either gives you more time or makes your time alive more meaningful, e.g it can be worth it to take an expensive taxi ride rather than waiting for a bus, as the money you spend shortens the amount of time you spend doing something you don't want to do. Ultimately, we have a set amount of time being alive, which, with money, we can elongate or make better.
It really reminded me to stop thinking of money, and saving money, as inherently good and the be-all end-all goal. The goal, rather, is to have a good life with the vanishingly little time we have left. Doesn't mean you should spend recklessly, but if there are little things you can spend a bit more on to give you more time doing what you love and being with who you love, do it! In the end, we really only have time, and we are constantly, relentlessly, losing it. Money is one particularly powerful way we manage the time we have left.
*Because twenty-something me realized, shit, I'm going to die.
posted by facehugger at 5:44 PM on March 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
He said that he sees money, and its uses, as something that fundamentally either gives you more time or makes your time alive more meaningful, e.g it can be worth it to take an expensive taxi ride rather than waiting for a bus, as the money you spend shortens the amount of time you spend doing something you don't want to do. Ultimately, we have a set amount of time being alive, which, with money, we can elongate or make better.
It really reminded me to stop thinking of money, and saving money, as inherently good and the be-all end-all goal. The goal, rather, is to have a good life with the vanishingly little time we have left. Doesn't mean you should spend recklessly, but if there are little things you can spend a bit more on to give you more time doing what you love and being with who you love, do it! In the end, we really only have time, and we are constantly, relentlessly, losing it. Money is one particularly powerful way we manage the time we have left.
*Because twenty-something me realized, shit, I'm going to die.
posted by facehugger at 5:44 PM on March 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
Time and percentages help. I have a very fluctuating budget at the moment, so I have a rough idea of time (my per hour is worth $X - if I can spend less than $X to save an hour for work, yay!) and when I get a sudden large amount of money above the budget I've set, I put about 25% into spending, and then I spend another 25% on stuff for people I love or donations to causes I care about, and then the rest goes into savings.
I also get my shopping craving out by having a perpetually open Amazon basket. I only hit order every three months because I have to save up for the minimum free shipping to where I live, and in the meantime, I impulsively put things I'd like to get into the basket and almost always, I end up a week later deleting them. By the time I finally order, it's stuff I really need and want and have planned for.
Do you have a budget also? Having some money allocated each month for purchases is nice, and lets you think oh hey, I still have $40 in the splurge category so I'll take a cab and skip the Starbucks and have $30 left for the week to splurge.
Buying from nice people or tipping generously for good service also helps. If you're buying a raincoat for $100, buy it from a company you like, or get one from a friendly small business or whatever your ethos is - the $15 to the nearby grocery store, is it a nice friendly store with happy staff? Is your extra $5 cost going to having a decent grocery store in your neighbourhood? That can be worth supporting.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:13 PM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I also get my shopping craving out by having a perpetually open Amazon basket. I only hit order every three months because I have to save up for the minimum free shipping to where I live, and in the meantime, I impulsively put things I'd like to get into the basket and almost always, I end up a week later deleting them. By the time I finally order, it's stuff I really need and want and have planned for.
Do you have a budget also? Having some money allocated each month for purchases is nice, and lets you think oh hey, I still have $40 in the splurge category so I'll take a cab and skip the Starbucks and have $30 left for the week to splurge.
Buying from nice people or tipping generously for good service also helps. If you're buying a raincoat for $100, buy it from a company you like, or get one from a friendly small business or whatever your ethos is - the $15 to the nearby grocery store, is it a nice friendly store with happy staff? Is your extra $5 cost going to having a decent grocery store in your neighbourhood? That can be worth supporting.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:13 PM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Are some of your feelings of dissonance magnified by thoughts of feeling selfish? I could believe that the idea of constantly spending money on yourself makes you feel like you're too focused on your own wants. People have hit on the charity idea, which I think is great, but maybe you could take it a step further. Might some of that guilt be alleviated by volunteering some time with a charity or not-for-profit organization? That way you might feel a little more deserving of the indulgences (which is what these purchases seem like to you). Take pups for walks at the animal shelter, spend one night a month cooking dinner for a nearby soup kitchen, do some phone banking for a cause you believe in, or volunteer your skills for an organization that might not afford it otherwise (e.g., updating their website). I think you'll find you have an easier time treating yo'self when you feel good about your contribution to the world.
posted by therewolf at 7:46 PM on March 30, 2015
posted by therewolf at 7:46 PM on March 30, 2015
How about some ways to DO convenience spending?
I have less time than money these days, so I make choices that buy that time back.
I've added these things over the last 3 years.
Wash & Fold laundry. ~$60/month.
I don't have a laundry machine in my house and don't want to spend half the day in the laundromat, carrying clothes around, folding, etc. So I drop it off, pick it up folded/hung a couple days later, put it away.
Task delegation service. ~$40/month.
Finding a restaurant and making a reservation, populating an excel sheet, waiting on hold on the phone, finding a dentist and making an appointment, posting a craigslist ad, make purchases on my behalf... I just have someone else do it. I've learned how to delegate more effectively.
I use FancyHands and, if you send me a message, I can share a referral link for a discount.
Cooking. ~$300/month for labor and groceries
I don't have enough time to cook and portion nutritious meals, so I pay someone to do it for me. It's was weird at first, now not so much. I cook here and there because I like it. I eat out less. And I average about $8/meal.
Personal Assistant. ~$500/month
I'm not doing this, but I might like to. Someone would come spend time with me for 5 hours once a week to cook, clean, run errands, and do any other tasks FancyHands can't.
And now I can go on a date, tackle a side project, or even stay at work late!
Still, I keep an emergency fund of about 3 months expenses, I contribute to a retirement plan (probably less than recommended), and I put into travel savings. I also automate most of my charitable or savings contributions so they leaves my bank account as soon as money gets in.
posted by jander03 at 5:45 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have less time than money these days, so I make choices that buy that time back.
I've added these things over the last 3 years.
Wash & Fold laundry. ~$60/month.
I don't have a laundry machine in my house and don't want to spend half the day in the laundromat, carrying clothes around, folding, etc. So I drop it off, pick it up folded/hung a couple days later, put it away.
Task delegation service. ~$40/month.
Finding a restaurant and making a reservation, populating an excel sheet, waiting on hold on the phone, finding a dentist and making an appointment, posting a craigslist ad, make purchases on my behalf... I just have someone else do it. I've learned how to delegate more effectively.
I use FancyHands and, if you send me a message, I can share a referral link for a discount.
Cooking. ~$300/month for labor and groceries
I don't have enough time to cook and portion nutritious meals, so I pay someone to do it for me. It's was weird at first, now not so much. I cook here and there because I like it. I eat out less. And I average about $8/meal.
Personal Assistant. ~$500/month
I'm not doing this, but I might like to. Someone would come spend time with me for 5 hours once a week to cook, clean, run errands, and do any other tasks FancyHands can't.
And now I can go on a date, tackle a side project, or even stay at work late!
Still, I keep an emergency fund of about 3 months expenses, I contribute to a retirement plan (probably less than recommended), and I put into travel savings. I also automate most of my charitable or savings contributions so they leaves my bank account as soon as money gets in.
posted by jander03 at 5:45 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Why?
I think you should spend money on things you value. If you don't value new rainjackets - then don't get them. I don't value smartphone apps and, in fact, do not even have a smartphone, and I make a six figure income.
Unless your frugality is affecting your professional life (ie, showing up for meetings in tattered clothing), I don't see any reason why you should change your lifestyle in a way that doesn't make you happier. Save the money, and if your opinion changes in the future, you'll have more money for spending on what you want.
posted by saeculorum at 8:58 AM on March 30, 2015