Forgive, forget, or revenge?
November 23, 2005 3:20 AM Subscribe
Forgive, forget, or revenge?
My brother's roommate wents nuts on me a few weeks ago. I blew it off at the time, but being the friend of a friend of lots of other friends, it's now wearing a thin line between me and some of the other people I like to run with. Apparently he said nothing of it to my brother, as though it didn't happen, or doesn't matter--but--this is the same person who had spent hours badmouthing to me every other person I have seen him use as a friend, so he is not to be trusted.
Considering that we all run in semi-similar, connected circles, and choosing to avoid him is a choice to also exclude myself from better company, what are some sensible options?
Forgiveness is simple, but without trust it seems unreasonable to forget. And vengeance would be easy, but no method seems to satisfy. Even a fair turnabout would seem more belittling to me than to a subject who in my eyes has already belittled himself.
Which leaves a political option of arguing my case to potential sympathizers in hope of marginalizing the enemy. Trite and a cheap waste of time.
At the next grand get together, what does a better man do? Ignore, confront and attack, confront and forgive, pretend it never happened, find a better crowd?
My brother's roommate wents nuts on me a few weeks ago. I blew it off at the time, but being the friend of a friend of lots of other friends, it's now wearing a thin line between me and some of the other people I like to run with. Apparently he said nothing of it to my brother, as though it didn't happen, or doesn't matter--but--this is the same person who had spent hours badmouthing to me every other person I have seen him use as a friend, so he is not to be trusted.
Considering that we all run in semi-similar, connected circles, and choosing to avoid him is a choice to also exclude myself from better company, what are some sensible options?
Forgiveness is simple, but without trust it seems unreasonable to forget. And vengeance would be easy, but no method seems to satisfy. Even a fair turnabout would seem more belittling to me than to a subject who in my eyes has already belittled himself.
Which leaves a political option of arguing my case to potential sympathizers in hope of marginalizing the enemy. Trite and a cheap waste of time.
At the next grand get together, what does a better man do? Ignore, confront and attack, confront and forgive, pretend it never happened, find a better crowd?
Define "went nuts on me"? What does that mean, exactly? Did he kick the shit out of you? Or did he just have a freakout anger attack?
posted by antifuse at 3:55 AM on November 23, 2005
posted by antifuse at 3:55 AM on November 23, 2005
Lingering resentment (i.e. the opposite of "forget") has been said to be like lighting yourself on fire in the hopes that the guilty party will die of smoke inhalation. Pure poison.
"Revenge" just puts the asshole hat on YOU.
Easier said than done, but there you have it.
Whatever went down, know that people have forgiven far worse (from worse human beings) for the sake of their own sanity. Don't let this guy rent any more space in your head.
posted by availablelight at 5:39 AM on November 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
"Revenge" just puts the asshole hat on YOU.
Easier said than done, but there you have it.
Whatever went down, know that people have forgiven far worse (from worse human beings) for the sake of their own sanity. Don't let this guy rent any more space in your head.
posted by availablelight at 5:39 AM on November 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
Forgive and ignore (the person, not the problem).
This might be tough if you run in the same social circles, but I can't see want good turning others against the person would achieve.
Or honestly and seriously confront the person by putting this issue out on the table.
If something is bothering you, or you genuinely believe this person has wronged you in some way, tell them so.
If the person will not, at the very least, try to listen to your claim, then you have your answer. You should probably not associate with this person anymore.
it's now wearing a thin line between me and some of the other people I like to run with...this is the same person who had spent hours badmouthing to me every other person I have seen him use as a friend
This seems like an issue that is also coming between you and others. Maybe this is something you can talk to them about.
At the next grand get together, what does a better man do? Ignore, confront and attack, confront and forgive, pretend it never happened, find a better crowd?
I would not use a word like 'confrontational' to describe what one should do. I would use a word like discuss. Tell the person what the problem is. If you can come to some sort of mutual agreement, then you've taken a step in the right direction.
Usually, you cannot forget and you shouldn't ignore the problem.
Also, I am not a psychologist. If this is a serious problem between you and this person which could lead to unnecessary physical violence, then I would bring this issue before a psychologist or counselor before beginning a discussion with this person. (On Preview: I concur with availablelight's final sentence.
posted by Colloquial Collision at 5:43 AM on November 23, 2005
This might be tough if you run in the same social circles, but I can't see want good turning others against the person would achieve.
Or honestly and seriously confront the person by putting this issue out on the table.
If something is bothering you, or you genuinely believe this person has wronged you in some way, tell them so.
If the person will not, at the very least, try to listen to your claim, then you have your answer. You should probably not associate with this person anymore.
it's now wearing a thin line between me and some of the other people I like to run with...this is the same person who had spent hours badmouthing to me every other person I have seen him use as a friend
This seems like an issue that is also coming between you and others. Maybe this is something you can talk to them about.
At the next grand get together, what does a better man do? Ignore, confront and attack, confront and forgive, pretend it never happened, find a better crowd?
I would not use a word like 'confrontational' to describe what one should do. I would use a word like discuss. Tell the person what the problem is. If you can come to some sort of mutual agreement, then you've taken a step in the right direction.
Usually, you cannot forget and you shouldn't ignore the problem.
Also, I am not a psychologist. If this is a serious problem between you and this person which could lead to unnecessary physical violence, then I would bring this issue before a psychologist or counselor before beginning a discussion with this person. (On Preview: I concur with availablelight's final sentence.
posted by Colloquial Collision at 5:43 AM on November 23, 2005
)
posted by Colloquial Collision at 5:47 AM on November 23, 2005
posted by Colloquial Collision at 5:47 AM on November 23, 2005
Resentment and revenge aren't going to help anyone out. Assuming he's just your average asshole, do as Kirth says and be civil while trying to minimize the impact he has on your life. People will catch on eventually. It will take a while, and occasionally it will be very frustrating in the meantime, but they will eventually catch on. (Unless they are morons, in which case, well, your friends are morons.)
If you feel like you absolutely need to say something, then say it. Don't half-ass behind his back, or wheedle and insinuate. But really, just ignore it and move on.
posted by fidelity at 5:55 AM on November 23, 2005
If you feel like you absolutely need to say something, then say it. Don't half-ass behind his back, or wheedle and insinuate. But really, just ignore it and move on.
posted by fidelity at 5:55 AM on November 23, 2005
Forgive and ignore him.
But, make sure that you discuss the situation like a rational person with your common friends. Something similar happened to me in college, and my friends were surprised but semi-believed the other guy's story until I told them what really happened.
posted by MrZero at 5:56 AM on November 23, 2005
But, make sure that you discuss the situation like a rational person with your common friends. Something similar happened to me in college, and my friends were surprised but semi-believed the other guy's story until I told them what really happened.
posted by MrZero at 5:56 AM on November 23, 2005
Revenge. Your silence only validates his gossip. You need to confront him directly, loudly, and publicly. Call him exactly what he is: a cowardly liar who lies about people behind their back. Explain, very clearly, how he made you angry and warn him never to do it again.
Then you forget about him. And certainly don't let his presence drive you away. Gossips and such tend to only know how to fight dirty and in the dark. When confronted directly, with the light on them, they crumple.
You should feel better afterwards, having defended yourself, and anybody else involved will take your authentic anger and willingness to confront him in the open as proof against him.
posted by nixerman at 6:31 AM on November 23, 2005
Then you forget about him. And certainly don't let his presence drive you away. Gossips and such tend to only know how to fight dirty and in the dark. When confronted directly, with the light on them, they crumple.
You should feel better afterwards, having defended yourself, and anybody else involved will take your authentic anger and willingness to confront him in the open as proof against him.
posted by nixerman at 6:31 AM on November 23, 2005
A fool lets a serpent bite him twice.
Chasing the snake that bit you only speeds the poison to your heart.
Ha!
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:40 AM on November 23, 2005
Chasing the snake that bit you only speeds the poison to your heart.
Ha!
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:40 AM on November 23, 2005
I'm with Nixerman, sort of. I've had this happen, and for the most part just kind of resigned myself to being a decent guy who ignored the bullshit, but we ended up at a New Years Eve party and were drinking, and he started going off on his shit in front of me. I just said "You know, this is why no one likes you" and preceeded to point out all the times he'd been an asshole and his friends had ditched him or avoided him because of it. He ended up crying, and I felt really bad about it. A lot of my friends congratulated me for saying what everyone was thinking, but I still probably shouldn't have been as harsh as I was with him and I still feel embarrassed when they occassionally bring it up all these years later. Leaving someone silent and crying isn't cool ever. So I'd say to wait until he says something about you in front of other people, and call him out. Remember to keep your sense of humor about the whole thing, especially when people are telling you about stuff he said behind your back. You can disarm a lot of the situation just by laughing it off, and that will affirm your position in the eyes of your friends. And you can make sure that you don't go too far when you do confront him by keeping your sense of humor about it. I mean, dude, he has what? Some sort of man crush on you? Why else be talkin' about you behind your back? Whatta douche. And feel free to tell your brother. He should get your back.
posted by klangklangston at 6:49 AM on November 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by klangklangston at 6:49 AM on November 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
Well, here's your choices on the usual scale:
Passive: Ignore him.
Assertive: Tell him you're angry at him. Tell him the situation you're in and let him know that if he's not interested in patching things up you'll still continue to have the friends you have and may have more, but that you'll either ignore him or, for worse grievances, tell him off in the future, perhaps in front of the other friends in the future.
Aggressive: Get revenge on him. You can either do it passively (underhanded revenge) or actively (something obvious, like punching him in the face).
Being passive leaves you sad. Being aggressive might get you in trouble, or worse, even in jail. Being assertive always leads to the best solution. Do that. :-)
There's no need to forget about this, but don't linger on it. Remember it so that the next time he acts out you can remind him "Again, you're acting like this, and this time I'm doing what I said. Next party I'm telling you off in front of others."
posted by shepd at 7:07 AM on November 23, 2005
Passive: Ignore him.
Assertive: Tell him you're angry at him. Tell him the situation you're in and let him know that if he's not interested in patching things up you'll still continue to have the friends you have and may have more, but that you'll either ignore him or, for worse grievances, tell him off in the future, perhaps in front of the other friends in the future.
Aggressive: Get revenge on him. You can either do it passively (underhanded revenge) or actively (something obvious, like punching him in the face).
Being passive leaves you sad. Being aggressive might get you in trouble, or worse, even in jail. Being assertive always leads to the best solution. Do that. :-)
There's no need to forget about this, but don't linger on it. Remember it so that the next time he acts out you can remind him "Again, you're acting like this, and this time I'm doing what I said. Next party I'm telling you off in front of others."
posted by shepd at 7:07 AM on November 23, 2005
To be honest? Unless there's more going on here than you've said, this sounds like high school-level fake drama. Forget it and move on.
posted by Mo Nickels at 7:23 AM on November 23, 2005
posted by Mo Nickels at 7:23 AM on November 23, 2005
Along the lines of what Mo Nickels and antifuse posted, here's another vote for letting us know what you mean by "going off on you" (but in such a way that your brother--his roommate--doesn't know about it but supposedly it made you look bad in front of mutual friends, etc.). It's difficult to say "confront" versus "chill and forget about it" if we don't know if this is something that genuinely had the potential to hurt you and your relationships, etc.
posted by availablelight at 7:36 AM on November 23, 2005
posted by availablelight at 7:36 AM on November 23, 2005
contact mtv and let that bearded guy cover this dudes room in hair.
posted by 8 Bit at 7:36 AM on November 23, 2005
posted by 8 Bit at 7:36 AM on November 23, 2005
One of my favorite aphorisms is, "If you wait by the river long enough, the body of your enemy will float by."
I don't know exactly what the original speaker of that wisdom meant by it, but here's what it means to me:
Your nemesis is a dishonest childish pig of a person. He is screwing with you, true. But if you shake it off and keep the high road, only responding with truth when asked by friends, or when provoked directly, eventually he will hang himself by going too far, or by screwing with enough people that he just runs out of friends.
People of the sort you describe lack the imagination and foresight to keep the truth about themselves hidden for long. If you get in a pissing match with him or sink to his level of pettiness, it will be more difficult for your mutual friends to tell the moral difference between you. This is why you must respond ONLY with the hard truth, and ONLY immediately upon being directly attacked.
If you have patience and stay the course, you will find the truth in the saying, "Time wounds all heels."
Good Luck!
posted by BigLankyBastard at 8:28 AM on November 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
I don't know exactly what the original speaker of that wisdom meant by it, but here's what it means to me:
Your nemesis is a dishonest childish pig of a person. He is screwing with you, true. But if you shake it off and keep the high road, only responding with truth when asked by friends, or when provoked directly, eventually he will hang himself by going too far, or by screwing with enough people that he just runs out of friends.
People of the sort you describe lack the imagination and foresight to keep the truth about themselves hidden for long. If you get in a pissing match with him or sink to his level of pettiness, it will be more difficult for your mutual friends to tell the moral difference between you. This is why you must respond ONLY with the hard truth, and ONLY immediately upon being directly attacked.
If you have patience and stay the course, you will find the truth in the saying, "Time wounds all heels."
Good Luck!
posted by BigLankyBastard at 8:28 AM on November 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
Considering that we all run in semi-similar, connected circles, and choosing to avoid him is a choice to also exclude myself from better company
If they tolerate him, they may not be better company.
posted by dhartung at 8:38 AM on November 23, 2005
If they tolerate him, they may not be better company.
posted by dhartung at 8:38 AM on November 23, 2005
Wait a really long time.
Then brick him into the wall of your basement.
posted by felix betachat at 9:02 AM on November 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
Then brick him into the wall of your basement.
posted by felix betachat at 9:02 AM on November 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
As a wise friend once told me, "In a breakup or fight, you don't want to be the one that looks crazy." It's easier to appear sane if you take the high road, and your indifference will probably make your enemy look even nuttier.
posted by Sara Anne at 11:18 AM on November 23, 2005
posted by Sara Anne at 11:18 AM on November 23, 2005
If this person is a traitor to many, his badmouthing will catch up to him on its own.
If somebody mentions it, just refute it and note that he's misguided. If the person continues in disbelief, a more vigorous argument is unlikely to change their opinion.
posted by I Love Tacos at 2:19 PM on November 23, 2005
If somebody mentions it, just refute it and note that he's misguided. If the person continues in disbelief, a more vigorous argument is unlikely to change their opinion.
posted by I Love Tacos at 2:19 PM on November 23, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:50 AM on November 23, 2005