you ain't got no personal finance skills honey
March 14, 2015 5:17 AM Subscribe
How do I talk with my partner about his bad money management/poor credit in a productive way?
My live in boyfriend (been together 2.5 years, living together half a year, in our mid/late 20s) is fantastic in a lot of ways, but he is not so great with money. A lot of it is cash flow related as he doesn't make a ton of money and has awful credit, but a lot of it is just inattention to what's due when and apathy about bills going to collections. The problem is not that he's blowing a ton of money every weekend, it's more that he doesn't have a good grasp on what is already a tricky balancing act and because his credit is already bad he doesn't care that much if a bill ends up in collections.
Rather than practical advice about what he should do to remedy this situation, I'm looking for practical advice on how to talk with him about money. Earlier in the relationship, I took the attitude that it wasn't any of my business but now that we're living together I'm not a fan of all the bills being in my name because his credit is too bad/he has an outstanding account with the utilities company and I'm tired of constantly having to cover more than half the rent until his next paycheck comes in.
Looking forward, if this ends up being a long long term relationship, I'm asking myself if I want to have kids with someone who can't be trusted to pay the internet bill. In addition, it kills me to watch him pay overdraft fees and pay twice what he should for basic car insurance and all the other crappy things that the system does to people living hand to mouth.
Anyway, I just got a new job and we'll have a lot more money coming in. I'm going to cover a proportional share of household expenses so he'll have a bit of breathing room. He also just got a big tax refund check which he's planning to use as an emergency fund. This seems like a great time to sit down with him and figure out a plan to get his financial house in order (or, at least start to).
However, I feel like conversations about money are tense. I have a hard time not seeming stressed about it and he feels bad and takes it personally. He knows that he's not in a good place with money but doesn't feel like he can fix it. It's visibly stressful to him to ask me for help financially. I have great credit and financial habits but a lot of that is because my family is financially savvy and supportive. His family is getting-evicted and getting-cars-repossessed bad with money. I don't know how to talk to him about these issues without sounding like I'm lecturing him or being patronizing, but on the other hand at this point I feel like it is my business and it's something that needs to be addressed for the long term health of the relationship.
A lot of it is larger than just money-like, hey you have health insurance now ffs please stop going to the emergency room when you're sick and then letting the copay go to collections.
Ideas? Again, not looking for practical financial advice, more looking for fluffy squishy interpersonal advice. Please assume that our lifestyles are pretty frugal and the money coming in is as good as it can be for the time being.
My live in boyfriend (been together 2.5 years, living together half a year, in our mid/late 20s) is fantastic in a lot of ways, but he is not so great with money. A lot of it is cash flow related as he doesn't make a ton of money and has awful credit, but a lot of it is just inattention to what's due when and apathy about bills going to collections. The problem is not that he's blowing a ton of money every weekend, it's more that he doesn't have a good grasp on what is already a tricky balancing act and because his credit is already bad he doesn't care that much if a bill ends up in collections.
Rather than practical advice about what he should do to remedy this situation, I'm looking for practical advice on how to talk with him about money. Earlier in the relationship, I took the attitude that it wasn't any of my business but now that we're living together I'm not a fan of all the bills being in my name because his credit is too bad/he has an outstanding account with the utilities company and I'm tired of constantly having to cover more than half the rent until his next paycheck comes in.
Looking forward, if this ends up being a long long term relationship, I'm asking myself if I want to have kids with someone who can't be trusted to pay the internet bill. In addition, it kills me to watch him pay overdraft fees and pay twice what he should for basic car insurance and all the other crappy things that the system does to people living hand to mouth.
Anyway, I just got a new job and we'll have a lot more money coming in. I'm going to cover a proportional share of household expenses so he'll have a bit of breathing room. He also just got a big tax refund check which he's planning to use as an emergency fund. This seems like a great time to sit down with him and figure out a plan to get his financial house in order (or, at least start to).
However, I feel like conversations about money are tense. I have a hard time not seeming stressed about it and he feels bad and takes it personally. He knows that he's not in a good place with money but doesn't feel like he can fix it. It's visibly stressful to him to ask me for help financially. I have great credit and financial habits but a lot of that is because my family is financially savvy and supportive. His family is getting-evicted and getting-cars-repossessed bad with money. I don't know how to talk to him about these issues without sounding like I'm lecturing him or being patronizing, but on the other hand at this point I feel like it is my business and it's something that needs to be addressed for the long term health of the relationship.
A lot of it is larger than just money-like, hey you have health insurance now ffs please stop going to the emergency room when you're sick and then letting the copay go to collections.
Ideas? Again, not looking for practical financial advice, more looking for fluffy squishy interpersonal advice. Please assume that our lifestyles are pretty frugal and the money coming in is as good as it can be for the time being.
So your boyfriend is bad with paying bills. That's ok. We are all good at some things and bad at other things. In your relationship, some tasks are probably assigned by which of you is good at it. So, if you could change the car oil, you do it, but if you are both bad at it, you won't risk ruining the car over this.
I'm not sure if your relationship is at this point, but the person that's good at paying bills should be overseeing this.
For me, after several years of trying to mentor my husband, I'm just having him give me one check for bills on the day he gets paid and he's left with a small amount for everyday expenses. You now use that big check to pay all shared expenses and ALL of his bills. You need to open all of his financial mail and make a plan, and start to pay ALL of his accounts.
While it may seem controlling, your boyfriend will feel very free. You can now set up a plan to make sure everything gets paid, and you can probably re-negotiate his debts, get cheaper insurance, etc., and have him in a better financial spot in a year or so. My husband's financial train wreck took about a year to sort out and he's in a much better position and the stress of it all is off of him. And doing it for him is not stressful for me.
You have the opportunity to give him a gift of your knowledge and organization, and it will be a long-term good for him.
After you get his things stable, you could assign him 1 or 2 bills to pay each month. After I gave my husband back one bill, he was late with it for 3 or 4 months straight, even though he's a smart person in a very successful career. He just doesn't get paying bills, and this will just be one thing he never does. He gets cooking, cleaning and child care. Not bills, and definitely not oil changes either. It's ok! We are all good at some things and bad at other things.
posted by littlewater at 6:37 AM on March 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm not sure if your relationship is at this point, but the person that's good at paying bills should be overseeing this.
For me, after several years of trying to mentor my husband, I'm just having him give me one check for bills on the day he gets paid and he's left with a small amount for everyday expenses. You now use that big check to pay all shared expenses and ALL of his bills. You need to open all of his financial mail and make a plan, and start to pay ALL of his accounts.
While it may seem controlling, your boyfriend will feel very free. You can now set up a plan to make sure everything gets paid, and you can probably re-negotiate his debts, get cheaper insurance, etc., and have him in a better financial spot in a year or so. My husband's financial train wreck took about a year to sort out and he's in a much better position and the stress of it all is off of him. And doing it for him is not stressful for me.
You have the opportunity to give him a gift of your knowledge and organization, and it will be a long-term good for him.
After you get his things stable, you could assign him 1 or 2 bills to pay each month. After I gave my husband back one bill, he was late with it for 3 or 4 months straight, even though he's a smart person in a very successful career. He just doesn't get paying bills, and this will just be one thing he never does. He gets cooking, cleaning and child care. Not bills, and definitely not oil changes either. It's ok! We are all good at some things and bad at other things.
posted by littlewater at 6:37 AM on March 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
When you're paying bills, offer to pay his bills (with his funds) at the same time. Make it very obvious when you're paying what. Also make it obvious how you budget. "Have you seen my expenses spreadsheet? I used to never know where my money was going, but now I can save a ton."
There's a lot of shame in being bad with money these days, which is (to me) ridiculous, because it's a skill set that some of us are taught by our families and some of us aren't taught at all. So making the conversation very low-stakes is what I would advise. "Hey, I'm paying some bills, want me to write a check for the internet," is less charged than, "Why can't you pay the internet bill on time?"
posted by xingcat at 6:52 AM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's a lot of shame in being bad with money these days, which is (to me) ridiculous, because it's a skill set that some of us are taught by our families and some of us aren't taught at all. So making the conversation very low-stakes is what I would advise. "Hey, I'm paying some bills, want me to write a check for the internet," is less charged than, "Why can't you pay the internet bill on time?"
posted by xingcat at 6:52 AM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I find that really fraught conversations go better when approached as a team than "Why don't you...."
An example opener: "hey love, now that we're living together, we're a team, and I've noticed that money stuff is stressful for us. What can we do together to make this less stressful for us?"
The key for me is really listening to what my partner says in response. Usually he's pretty relieved to have the topic started. I work really hard to listen and not go in to problem solving mode, especially not "I am better than you at this." I remind myself that our ways are different, but he has reasons for doing things the way he does. Keeping an open mind helps me stay away from the "broken one - fixer one" dynamic. I come away from these conversations with a better understanding of my partner, which is always valuable.
Tldr: approach it as a Team Us conversation, and listen to his point of view and treat it as equally valid to your own.
posted by RogueTech at 7:07 AM on March 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
An example opener: "hey love, now that we're living together, we're a team, and I've noticed that money stuff is stressful for us. What can we do together to make this less stressful for us?"
The key for me is really listening to what my partner says in response. Usually he's pretty relieved to have the topic started. I work really hard to listen and not go in to problem solving mode, especially not "I am better than you at this." I remind myself that our ways are different, but he has reasons for doing things the way he does. Keeping an open mind helps me stay away from the "broken one - fixer one" dynamic. I come away from these conversations with a better understanding of my partner, which is always valuable.
Tldr: approach it as a Team Us conversation, and listen to his point of view and treat it as equally valid to your own.
posted by RogueTech at 7:07 AM on March 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
Put everything on autopay for him. Or sit down with him and do it. Take one of his pay checks each month (or two if he gets paid weekly- half his income in other words) and transfer it directly to a "pay bills only" account. Do not give him the plastic debit card for this account.
Destroy his credit card. Leave him with one debit card for one account with only half of his pay each month.
Problem solved? (If bills are more than approximately 50% of his income then there's your problem right there.)
posted by quincunx at 7:22 AM on March 14, 2015
Destroy his credit card. Leave him with one debit card for one account with only half of his pay each month.
Problem solved? (If bills are more than approximately 50% of his income then there's your problem right there.)
posted by quincunx at 7:22 AM on March 14, 2015
You can also sign him up for Mint.com. Pie charts help some people way more than bank statements.
posted by quincunx at 7:31 AM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by quincunx at 7:31 AM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
"It kills me to watch you pay overdraft fees and pay twice what you should for basic car insurance and all the other crappy things that the system does to people living hand to mouth. Would you like me to help you sort out your finances? It's not nearly so scary if we deal with it together."
And if he doesn't want the help, well, you can't force it on him.
posted by Leon at 8:03 AM on March 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
And if he doesn't want the help, well, you can't force it on him.
posted by Leon at 8:03 AM on March 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Money is a hard topic to talk about, and sometimes a little rehearsal is useful for discussing difficult topics. Do you have a friend who's good at putting themselves in other people's shoes? It might take some of the stress out to sound out your approach to the conversation with them, maybe even go so far as writing a script for yourself and trying it out with them.
Acknowledging the fact that the conversation is a stress point is a good way to start. Be appreciative of the fact that your boyfriend is taking on something difficult with you. It might be helpful to establish that either one of you can call a time out on the conversation, so long as you set a date to resume it - whether it's in 20 minutes or a couple of days. Plan to do something nice for yourselves afterward, even something very simple like take a walk somewhere pleasant or watch a favorite comfort movie.
While it might seem like an unnecessary expense since you've got good skills and habits, it might be helpful to consider some third party assistance, assuming that it's more a matter of learning skills than an emotional or psychological block for your boyfriend. Financial management classes or working with a financial advisor on basic skills might be easier on both of you, if he really is ready to change. Learning a new skill set can be daunting, and sometimes it feels safer to do it with people who you aren't emotionally invested in.
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:12 AM on March 14, 2015
Acknowledging the fact that the conversation is a stress point is a good way to start. Be appreciative of the fact that your boyfriend is taking on something difficult with you. It might be helpful to establish that either one of you can call a time out on the conversation, so long as you set a date to resume it - whether it's in 20 minutes or a couple of days. Plan to do something nice for yourselves afterward, even something very simple like take a walk somewhere pleasant or watch a favorite comfort movie.
While it might seem like an unnecessary expense since you've got good skills and habits, it might be helpful to consider some third party assistance, assuming that it's more a matter of learning skills than an emotional or psychological block for your boyfriend. Financial management classes or working with a financial advisor on basic skills might be easier on both of you, if he really is ready to change. Learning a new skill set can be daunting, and sometimes it feels safer to do it with people who you aren't emotionally invested in.
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:12 AM on March 14, 2015
Oh, I have strong thoughts on this. You are going to have to be his Money Mommy if you want to stay with and live with him. He has no clue, no control, and doesn't really super care about trying to manage his money. His whole family doesn't know how. He needs to start turning over his entire paycheck to you, you give him an allowance and pay all his bills for him. He comes from a poor environment and he has no idea how to live like a middle class person with health insurance. You may have to teach him slowly, but in the meantime you have got to take 100% control of his money because it's not going to get any better if you leave him with control right now. He can't handle it, and he may never be able to handle it.
"I'm not a fan of all the bills being in my name because his credit is too bad/he has an outstanding account with the utilities company and I'm tired of constantly having to cover more than half the rent until his next paycheck comes in."
You're going to have to keep doing that, I'm afraid. That's the price you pay to be with him. Uh, literally.
Looking forward, if this ends up being a long long term relationship, I'm asking myself if I want to have kids with someone who can't be trusted to pay the internet bill.
Honestly, I agree with this. I realized after my experience with my sweet but deadbeat broke boyfriend who had no idea about money (and came from the same sort of family life as yours, I think) that I was not okay with ending up with someone who had to be taken care of all the time and could never be trusted to hold down a job for very long and have any money. I'm never going to make enough money to support two people, and if something happened to me, we'd end up homeless or living with his relatives. That scares the crap out of me. I couldn't trust him to move in with me and hold up his half of the rent, so I never could quite commit that far. And in your case if you want to have kids with the guy and aren't able to work for awhile.... I would be worried.
However, on the other hand, I've known a few couples where the wife took over taking care of the finances 100% and gave the husband an allowance, and both parties involved have been perfectly happy with that for freaking decades. So if you are willing to put up with dealing with that, it is apparently a feasible relationship model as long as nothing happens to you to make you unable to 100% take care of the money.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
"I'm not a fan of all the bills being in my name because his credit is too bad/he has an outstanding account with the utilities company and I'm tired of constantly having to cover more than half the rent until his next paycheck comes in."
You're going to have to keep doing that, I'm afraid. That's the price you pay to be with him. Uh, literally.
Looking forward, if this ends up being a long long term relationship, I'm asking myself if I want to have kids with someone who can't be trusted to pay the internet bill.
Honestly, I agree with this. I realized after my experience with my sweet but deadbeat broke boyfriend who had no idea about money (and came from the same sort of family life as yours, I think) that I was not okay with ending up with someone who had to be taken care of all the time and could never be trusted to hold down a job for very long and have any money. I'm never going to make enough money to support two people, and if something happened to me, we'd end up homeless or living with his relatives. That scares the crap out of me. I couldn't trust him to move in with me and hold up his half of the rent, so I never could quite commit that far. And in your case if you want to have kids with the guy and aren't able to work for awhile.... I would be worried.
However, on the other hand, I've known a few couples where the wife took over taking care of the finances 100% and gave the husband an allowance, and both parties involved have been perfectly happy with that for freaking decades. So if you are willing to put up with dealing with that, it is apparently a feasible relationship model as long as nothing happens to you to make you unable to 100% take care of the money.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
OK, you want soft interpersonal advice. This is how it went with us early in our marriage.
I did it for a while until it became apparent that I was doing it lousy. She pointed out a couple things I'd done that she didn't think were normal, and would I let her try handling the finances to see how it goes, but I could monitor what she did to make sure the payments actually posted to the accounts (over the years I have caught just a few of those anomalies).
I also agreed with her that this is a "chore" that she does, she doesn't enjoy it but is better at it than me, just like there are things I don't enjoy but she doesn't feel able to do. So we're a team which is how it should be.
Today we look back and are pleased with that approach because over time it made our finances more routine, and allowed us to set aside money for vacations and appliance/car repairs that are bound to arise, etc. So now we use Amex charge (not credit) cards and know we are meeting our expenses on a month by month basis. We consistently refuse Amex's offer to pay off large purchases over time but do happily make use of their points.
So *maybe* (and I know this is a tough discussion) the chore - team - rewards approach might work for you (???).
posted by forthright at 9:18 AM on March 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I did it for a while until it became apparent that I was doing it lousy. She pointed out a couple things I'd done that she didn't think were normal, and would I let her try handling the finances to see how it goes, but I could monitor what she did to make sure the payments actually posted to the accounts (over the years I have caught just a few of those anomalies).
I also agreed with her that this is a "chore" that she does, she doesn't enjoy it but is better at it than me, just like there are things I don't enjoy but she doesn't feel able to do. So we're a team which is how it should be.
Today we look back and are pleased with that approach because over time it made our finances more routine, and allowed us to set aside money for vacations and appliance/car repairs that are bound to arise, etc. So now we use Amex charge (not credit) cards and know we are meeting our expenses on a month by month basis. We consistently refuse Amex's offer to pay off large purchases over time but do happily make use of their points.
So *maybe* (and I know this is a tough discussion) the chore - team - rewards approach might work for you (???).
posted by forthright at 9:18 AM on March 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
So... I'm your boyfriend, basically.
Taking the control away from him is pretty much your only option here. A suggested approach:
"[endearment], we need to have a serious talk about finances. It's not a priority for you and I understand that. It is a priority for me and our future planning, so we need to work this out. I think the logical approach is for me to handle all the bill paying. This means your paycheques get deposited into an account that I control. I deposit my money there too, and that's where all our bills get paid from. After bills, we'll allocate spending and saving money accordingly. And your credit cards have to go." And in return for you managing the money, his responsibility for cooking/cleaning/whatever should increase.
The bottom line is that finances can make or break a relationship. Your choices are to live like this, to take control of the situation, or walk away. Which will be most effective for you, long term?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:24 AM on March 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
Taking the control away from him is pretty much your only option here. A suggested approach:
"[endearment], we need to have a serious talk about finances. It's not a priority for you and I understand that. It is a priority for me and our future planning, so we need to work this out. I think the logical approach is for me to handle all the bill paying. This means your paycheques get deposited into an account that I control. I deposit my money there too, and that's where all our bills get paid from. After bills, we'll allocate spending and saving money accordingly. And your credit cards have to go." And in return for you managing the money, his responsibility for cooking/cleaning/whatever should increase.
The bottom line is that finances can make or break a relationship. Your choices are to live like this, to take control of the situation, or walk away. Which will be most effective for you, long term?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:24 AM on March 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
I used to be your bf (except I had a high cash flow and was completely blowing it which is arguably even less responsible) and it took a frank discussion with my then-fiancee about what we needed to do to get on track to meet our goals. I say we because this isn't just his problem - if you are going to continue to be with this person, you will need to either accept the status quo or make a plan for growth in this area.
If this has been an ongoing problem most of his adult life, he has undoubtedly been advised by multiple people how to fix this. At this point, assuming he isn't grossly uneducated about personal finance, I have to think it's just not important to him/he doesn't care. Not to say that he doesn't care about you, but it is pretty apparent that good financial health is not important to him.
So with that in mind, I think the best route you can take in discussing it is to treat it as an aspect of your future. I have no doubt that if I hadn't committed to being more serious about finances, my wife and I would have not got married or be happily married all these years later. It took her laying that out to me in very serious but kind terms for me to get my act together. Lay out the facts, talk about where you both want to go in life, and then bring up some solutions. Ideally he can pick the option that he thinks will work best, whether it is turning over finances to you completely, taking a personal finance course, etc.
I know you didn't ask for practical advise, but autopay is amazing. Assuming you can have sufficient cash on hand to not get overdrafted, it takes a lot of the "chore" out of managing finances. Once you have the timing setup to coincide with your pay periods, it runs so smoothly and thoughtlessly. That was the best thing for me in regard to keeping things out of late/collections status.
posted by _DB_ at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
If this has been an ongoing problem most of his adult life, he has undoubtedly been advised by multiple people how to fix this. At this point, assuming he isn't grossly uneducated about personal finance, I have to think it's just not important to him/he doesn't care. Not to say that he doesn't care about you, but it is pretty apparent that good financial health is not important to him.
So with that in mind, I think the best route you can take in discussing it is to treat it as an aspect of your future. I have no doubt that if I hadn't committed to being more serious about finances, my wife and I would have not got married or be happily married all these years later. It took her laying that out to me in very serious but kind terms for me to get my act together. Lay out the facts, talk about where you both want to go in life, and then bring up some solutions. Ideally he can pick the option that he thinks will work best, whether it is turning over finances to you completely, taking a personal finance course, etc.
I know you didn't ask for practical advise, but autopay is amazing. Assuming you can have sufficient cash on hand to not get overdrafted, it takes a lot of the "chore" out of managing finances. Once you have the timing setup to coincide with your pay periods, it runs so smoothly and thoughtlessly. That was the best thing for me in regard to keeping things out of late/collections status.
posted by _DB_ at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
He knows that he's not in a good place with money but doesn't feel like he can fix it
It sounds like he did find a way to fix it, to make it your problem.
I'm sorry, but first I have to say that it is not very responsible for you to move in with someone that is unable to pay their share of the rent on a regular basis. (I've been there, so I am speaking from hindsight and it speaks to an entitlement he feels towards your money that is dangerous). It also sounds like you worked towards getting a better paying job but your boyfriend is getting the benefit (he pays less each month) while you get the negative (you are not really further ahead in your personal financial goals due to paying a larger share of bills). Your relationship is in the early days and the dynamic you are setting up is that he gets to be carefree child and you have to be the responsible parent who probably later on will be viewed as controlling and no fun. This is NOT healthy and I can't think of any happy partnership I know that has that dynamic.
I get that not having earning a lot of money makes life really, really tough. I have been there, I come from a poor family so I knew I had to learn financial literacy. But I did the hard work and got myself successively better paying jobs and learned trick to get organised by myself. This is where you need to start with your boyfriend; he needs a bare minimum of money each month to live and he is earning below that amount. What solutions does he have to fix that problem? Another job, a second job, an investment in going to school, ditching his cell phone, etc? You can't tell him what to do, he has to find the solution himself the way he solves all the other problems that crop up in his life. He is motivated to solve those problems, right? From your description, this just doesn't sound like he is really feeling motivated right now because you are his constant safety net.
posted by saucysault at 10:44 AM on March 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
It sounds like he did find a way to fix it, to make it your problem.
I'm sorry, but first I have to say that it is not very responsible for you to move in with someone that is unable to pay their share of the rent on a regular basis. (I've been there, so I am speaking from hindsight and it speaks to an entitlement he feels towards your money that is dangerous). It also sounds like you worked towards getting a better paying job but your boyfriend is getting the benefit (he pays less each month) while you get the negative (you are not really further ahead in your personal financial goals due to paying a larger share of bills). Your relationship is in the early days and the dynamic you are setting up is that he gets to be carefree child and you have to be the responsible parent who probably later on will be viewed as controlling and no fun. This is NOT healthy and I can't think of any happy partnership I know that has that dynamic.
I get that not having earning a lot of money makes life really, really tough. I have been there, I come from a poor family so I knew I had to learn financial literacy. But I did the hard work and got myself successively better paying jobs and learned trick to get organised by myself. This is where you need to start with your boyfriend; he needs a bare minimum of money each month to live and he is earning below that amount. What solutions does he have to fix that problem? Another job, a second job, an investment in going to school, ditching his cell phone, etc? You can't tell him what to do, he has to find the solution himself the way he solves all the other problems that crop up in his life. He is motivated to solve those problems, right? From your description, this just doesn't sound like he is really feeling motivated right now because you are his constant safety net.
posted by saucysault at 10:44 AM on March 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think your change in earnings (and since you said you have agreed to adjust how much he contributes to the household proportionally) is your opening to talk about this. Sit him down and say,
"Honey, we both have been ignoring your financial situation and resulting habits for too long. I understand completely that it's hard to live hand to mouth, and to feel like once you're so far behind there's no point in trying to catch up. The system is set up to screw the people over who can least afford it, and that sucks. But it's important for me and for our partnership that you - and by extention I - don't live like this anymore.
Now that I'm earning more money, I'm happy to adjust how much each of us is contributing to household bills relative to income. This should help give you more breathing room in your budget. In exchange, though, I need something from you - a commitment to stop ignoring your financial habits and start working to improve them. This commitment needs to include:" [and here is where you ask him what he thinks he needs to and can realistically do given his reduced payments towards you for rent & bills. you can also suggest ideas, like either you take care of it all; or that he's still in charge but needs to do x, y, and z differently (autopay, budgeting software, etc) and not miss a bill or pay an overdraft for x months or you'll be having this conversation again. you may need or want to give him a few days or a week to think of solutions himself before you go full Allowance Mode, or not - depends on whether he'd get defensive or insulted by immediate suggestions from you.]
Good luck!
posted by misskaz at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Honey, we both have been ignoring your financial situation and resulting habits for too long. I understand completely that it's hard to live hand to mouth, and to feel like once you're so far behind there's no point in trying to catch up. The system is set up to screw the people over who can least afford it, and that sucks. But it's important for me and for our partnership that you - and by extention I - don't live like this anymore.
Now that I'm earning more money, I'm happy to adjust how much each of us is contributing to household bills relative to income. This should help give you more breathing room in your budget. In exchange, though, I need something from you - a commitment to stop ignoring your financial habits and start working to improve them. This commitment needs to include:" [and here is where you ask him what he thinks he needs to and can realistically do given his reduced payments towards you for rent & bills. you can also suggest ideas, like either you take care of it all; or that he's still in charge but needs to do x, y, and z differently (autopay, budgeting software, etc) and not miss a bill or pay an overdraft for x months or you'll be having this conversation again. you may need or want to give him a few days or a week to think of solutions himself before you go full Allowance Mode, or not - depends on whether he'd get defensive or insulted by immediate suggestions from you.]
Good luck!
posted by misskaz at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Every month, my father signs his paycheck over to my mother. She gives him spending money, and that's what he gets. If he wants more they negotiate it. They've been doing this for over 30 years, and it works for both of them.
If it sounds like something you'd be okay with, give it a shot. I think it works well for a lot of couples.
posted by zug at 12:07 PM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
If it sounds like something you'd be okay with, give it a shot. I think it works well for a lot of couples.
posted by zug at 12:07 PM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
It seems like more than just taking his paycheck and handling the bills is needed here. If he has the attitude that things going to collections isn't a big deal, and that it's ok to go to the ER even though your insurance would cover it, those problems are going to remain. There are real consequences to that stuff, and if you're joining finances, they're going to affect you. I don't know how to fix that, but I think until it's fixed, you're going to continue having problems even if you pay the bills yourself.
posted by primethyme at 1:45 PM on March 14, 2015
posted by primethyme at 1:45 PM on March 14, 2015
Could you frame it like a knowledge sharing/distribution thing? So it's more like "Let's make sure we both know what's going on with our finances and how we're handling them, just in case." Like how people in my office sometimes make sure to train others on their responsibilities "in case they get hit by a bus."
And then actually make it happen with a weekly finance-handling hangout where you both catch up on the bills and figure out the finances together, followed by wine drinking, movie watching, favorite takeout, etc. as a reward. It could even be a real anticipation-building treat, like "Ooh, what movie are we going to watch for this week's Reward for Doing the Bills?"
posted by cadge at 1:58 PM on March 14, 2015
And then actually make it happen with a weekly finance-handling hangout where you both catch up on the bills and figure out the finances together, followed by wine drinking, movie watching, favorite takeout, etc. as a reward. It could even be a real anticipation-building treat, like "Ooh, what movie are we going to watch for this week's Reward for Doing the Bills?"
posted by cadge at 1:58 PM on March 14, 2015
Can you tell him more or less what you told us? Don't try to talk about the money management problem itself but about the stress/emotions surrounding the problem.
I feel like conversations we have about money are tense. We are both stressed about it and it feels like you don't feel like you can fix your situation. I know you don't like to ask me for financial help so I want to work on this as a team. I don't know how to talk to you about these issues without sounding like I'm lecturing you or being patronizing, but on the other hand at this point I feel it's something that needs to be addressed for the long term health of our relationship. How would you feel about meeting with a financial planner/taking a household finance workshop/money management class?
Good luck. This is hard for almost everyone. Some days I wish we could just go back to bartering goats and chickens.
posted by Beti at 8:31 PM on March 14, 2015
I feel like conversations we have about money are tense. We are both stressed about it and it feels like you don't feel like you can fix your situation. I know you don't like to ask me for financial help so I want to work on this as a team. I don't know how to talk to you about these issues without sounding like I'm lecturing you or being patronizing, but on the other hand at this point I feel it's something that needs to be addressed for the long term health of our relationship. How would you feel about meeting with a financial planner/taking a household finance workshop/money management class?
Good luck. This is hard for almost everyone. Some days I wish we could just go back to bartering goats and chickens.
posted by Beti at 8:31 PM on March 14, 2015
I am the same as your boyfriend. In my relationship, Mr Shazzam! takes care of all bills, money related things, and the such. The trade-off is that he can barely make toast, so I do all cooking and deal with our various operational affairs in the house (dealing with tradesmen etc).
It works for us.
Let me say though, that there's a difference between MAKING money, and KEEPING money.
KEEPING MONEY
I'm not very good at KEEPING money when I have it. But that's okay, because Mr Shazzam! makes sure that the money I earn is kept and distributed as it should. He's also helped me use the envelope method which makes all my financial decisions incredibly easy - I go out, and I look in my wallet. If there's money there, I can spend it. If not, bad luck. No cards, at all. And of course, all my spending money is allocated after he helps me put it towards all the other things that are more important.
MAKING MONEY
Having trouble MAKING money - that's a different story. Being a deadbeat and not being able to keep down a job, or not being willing to work when there's opportunities - that's not what you want in a partner. I have demonstrated to my partner that I'm always willing to contribute and work hard - it's just that I need him to help me with cashflow allocation since I'm so bad with bills, paperwork, and stuff like that.
ONE LAST THING
Lastly, there's respect. I'm not responsible with some things, and my spending can reflect that. But I respect our relationship enough to for example, know better than to quit my job with no plan, or blow my savings (that ironically he has helped me accumulate) on something inappropriate. We also have a dollar amount where if either of us want to purchase something over that amount, we have to discuss it. I never flout that rule, because hey, I love my husband and wouldn't want HIM to lose respect for ME. Then there's HIS respect for ME - he respects my ability to earn money and understands my career and financial goals and helps me with them.
I think finances are tricky things to discuss, as everyone has a different "norm" that they grew up with. You've got to work out WHY cashflow is a problem - since it's a very broad term that doesn't really point to the reason this happens.
You both have to understand whether your boyfriend has an issue MAKING or KEEPING money (2 very different problems, to be tackled in different ways). You also have to ensure that respect is kept up between the 2 of you - once contempt for someone else's life habits creeps in, it's very difficult to come back from.
If you can keep it a safe conversation, and one where the focus is on your future goals together, and how each of you can contribute to making sure that happens, then you'll be awesome together financially.
posted by shazzam! at 10:52 PM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
It works for us.
Let me say though, that there's a difference between MAKING money, and KEEPING money.
KEEPING MONEY
I'm not very good at KEEPING money when I have it. But that's okay, because Mr Shazzam! makes sure that the money I earn is kept and distributed as it should. He's also helped me use the envelope method which makes all my financial decisions incredibly easy - I go out, and I look in my wallet. If there's money there, I can spend it. If not, bad luck. No cards, at all. And of course, all my spending money is allocated after he helps me put it towards all the other things that are more important.
MAKING MONEY
Having trouble MAKING money - that's a different story. Being a deadbeat and not being able to keep down a job, or not being willing to work when there's opportunities - that's not what you want in a partner. I have demonstrated to my partner that I'm always willing to contribute and work hard - it's just that I need him to help me with cashflow allocation since I'm so bad with bills, paperwork, and stuff like that.
ONE LAST THING
Lastly, there's respect. I'm not responsible with some things, and my spending can reflect that. But I respect our relationship enough to for example, know better than to quit my job with no plan, or blow my savings (that ironically he has helped me accumulate) on something inappropriate. We also have a dollar amount where if either of us want to purchase something over that amount, we have to discuss it. I never flout that rule, because hey, I love my husband and wouldn't want HIM to lose respect for ME. Then there's HIS respect for ME - he respects my ability to earn money and understands my career and financial goals and helps me with them.
I think finances are tricky things to discuss, as everyone has a different "norm" that they grew up with. You've got to work out WHY cashflow is a problem - since it's a very broad term that doesn't really point to the reason this happens.
You both have to understand whether your boyfriend has an issue MAKING or KEEPING money (2 very different problems, to be tackled in different ways). You also have to ensure that respect is kept up between the 2 of you - once contempt for someone else's life habits creeps in, it's very difficult to come back from.
If you can keep it a safe conversation, and one where the focus is on your future goals together, and how each of you can contribute to making sure that happens, then you'll be awesome together financially.
posted by shazzam! at 10:52 PM on March 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
My ex was terrible with money. I once suggested he let me help him create a budget and he said, I kid you not, I don't do budgets. That was the beginning of the end for me (though I didn't consciously realize it at the time). His car would get towed or he'd get a ticket or he'd run out of money and he would always blame it on outside forces. So one question I have is, does your bf take responsibility for his actions? If he's always laying the blame elsewhere then I would call that a red flag. Because you can't build a long-term relationship on someone who evades financial responsibility. If he's responsible then I agree it's a matter of finding workarounds for his avoidance issues (avoiding paying his bills, for instance).
posted by lillian.elmtree at 7:54 PM on March 16, 2015
posted by lillian.elmtree at 7:54 PM on March 16, 2015
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We set the system up when we first moved in with each other, and it has worked very well for us. I don't nudge him, and I don't worry about him forgetting to pay TimeWarner, because they send annoying texts but really don't want to close the account! :)
posted by miss tea at 5:34 AM on March 14, 2015 [1 favorite]