How to cope with being unpopular
March 6, 2015 3:24 PM Subscribe
I like myself, but it wears me down being around people who I like but who don't seem to value or like me that much. This seems to be a pretty consistent pattern throughout my life. I've come to the conclusion that I'm basically unpopular and of a low social status. I need help to emotionally deal with this?
(Let's assume this is an actual thing that happens. I'd kind of hoped it wasn't, that human relationships were a blissful utopia of people with similar/ complimentary sensibilities and interests blossoming together, rather than a scramble to hang out with whoever is most attractive or charismatic but w/e)
It's not that I'm worried about being popular, just that being actively unpopular/ low social status is really tiring. It's really hard to try to make friends but sense that you're low on the social hierarchy so less people are going to bother, seeing other people make friends easily and being welcomed into the group while you're ignored and no one replies to your messages.
I'm really not looking for suggestions on how to make friends or that kind of thing. I'm looking for suggestions on how to cope with being unpopular, feeling like a person low on an invisible but definitely existing social rank, how to deal with feeling rejected and low value.
(Or maybe this isn't normal and is a result of being around early to mid twenties queer London-based anarchist art school type people who all seem to know each other, but I honestly don't know what else to do, I feel like these are 'my people' even though none of them like me)
(Let's assume this is an actual thing that happens. I'd kind of hoped it wasn't, that human relationships were a blissful utopia of people with similar/ complimentary sensibilities and interests blossoming together, rather than a scramble to hang out with whoever is most attractive or charismatic but w/e)
It's not that I'm worried about being popular, just that being actively unpopular/ low social status is really tiring. It's really hard to try to make friends but sense that you're low on the social hierarchy so less people are going to bother, seeing other people make friends easily and being welcomed into the group while you're ignored and no one replies to your messages.
I'm really not looking for suggestions on how to make friends or that kind of thing. I'm looking for suggestions on how to cope with being unpopular, feeling like a person low on an invisible but definitely existing social rank, how to deal with feeling rejected and low value.
(Or maybe this isn't normal and is a result of being around early to mid twenties queer London-based anarchist art school type people who all seem to know each other, but I honestly don't know what else to do, I feel like these are 'my people' even though none of them like me)
Realize that no one's opinion matters. You have a right to be here as much as the trees and stars do, or however Desiderata puts it. Fuck 'em.
posted by quincunx at 3:46 PM on March 6, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by quincunx at 3:46 PM on March 6, 2015 [15 favorites]
I used to be actively unpopular when I was younger. It was really painful, so I totally understand where you're coming from. Even though things are a lot better now, I still (very rarely) get the "invisible" feeling you mention. It stinks.
What helped me was remembering that being unpopular doesn't mean much, other than that you don't particularly mesh with most of the people around you. It doesn't say anything about your kindness, or intelligence, or creativity, or your physical/emotional strength. It doesn't say much of anything about you, and certainly not about your ability to contribute to the world.
Hang in there.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 3:52 PM on March 6, 2015 [28 favorites]
What helped me was remembering that being unpopular doesn't mean much, other than that you don't particularly mesh with most of the people around you. It doesn't say anything about your kindness, or intelligence, or creativity, or your physical/emotional strength. It doesn't say much of anything about you, and certainly not about your ability to contribute to the world.
Hang in there.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 3:52 PM on March 6, 2015 [28 favorites]
I think the importance of attractiveness/money/charisma/social status matters a lot more/less depending on the city, social scene, etc. I've been around some social scenes where it seemed to matter quite a lot, and others where it cleas clearly a lot less important. And, the "qualities" that confer high social status vary a lot between different social groups. For example, I guarantee you that among, say, dorky PhD students, the ability to carry on an intelligent debate will matter a lot, but attractiveness or high-level social skills matters less (I don't mean this as a slam on dorky PhD students, I used to be one myself and put myself firmly in this category! Many of us are very nice, kind people, but there is not a whole ton of charisma to go around...)
That said, I have two recommendations:
1. Branch out your social circle in as many crazy ways you can think of. I bet there may be a "tribe" for you out there, just maybe not the people you may have guessed. I promise there are people out there who won't care if you have fashion model looks or James Bond charisma. You might need to look in places or at people who you, yourself consider less than cool, so definitely take that into consideration. Make it an experiment to try to check out different groups/strike up conversations with lots of different types of people.
2. I agree with Miko that therapy can be great for this sort of thing, both in terms of sorting through perception versus reality and in terms of coping with the harsh realities out there.
posted by rainbowbrite at 3:58 PM on March 6, 2015 [12 favorites]
That said, I have two recommendations:
1. Branch out your social circle in as many crazy ways you can think of. I bet there may be a "tribe" for you out there, just maybe not the people you may have guessed. I promise there are people out there who won't care if you have fashion model looks or James Bond charisma. You might need to look in places or at people who you, yourself consider less than cool, so definitely take that into consideration. Make it an experiment to try to check out different groups/strike up conversations with lots of different types of people.
2. I agree with Miko that therapy can be great for this sort of thing, both in terms of sorting through perception versus reality and in terms of coping with the harsh realities out there.
posted by rainbowbrite at 3:58 PM on March 6, 2015 [12 favorites]
You should consider how quickly "fashionably chic" changes. One day you're in: the next day you're OUT. Human relationships are fluid and constantly shifting. Wait around long enough and you'll eventually be the it person. Just be nice and eventually people will realize what a great person you are to have as a friend.
posted by BarcelonaRed at 4:03 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by BarcelonaRed at 4:03 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
Or maybe this isn't normal and is a result of being around early to mid twenties queer London-based anarchist art school type people who all seem to know each other
Quite possibly. I hung around a very similar scene (LGBT-friendly, anarchist, big city in the US) when I was in my twenties and it was ... challenging. A lot of people who were dismissive of hierarchy nonetheless setting up a lot of their own internal structures that could be exclusionary. Which is another way of saying, it's not just you.
I agree with Miko that sometimes it's useful to get an outside perspective on this sort of thing (therapist, social workers, friend from a long time ago, close family member) because there's a lot of status stuff (in non-celebrity contexts) that really is about perception of status and not status itself. And there's some "fake it til you make it" parts of that involved.
Put another way: you can't be low status everywhere, all the time (or, it's very unlikely), but you may be in contexts where you show up that way and you need to find other contexts. Ideally you could be high status in some places, low in others and middle-of-the-pack in still others. I mean IDEAL ideally there wouldn't be so much status jockeying but realistically a lot of people still do this sort of thing. They do it less as you get older. They do it less in some places than in others (I live in a small town in Vermont and there's just not that much of that sort of thing going on, that's why I am here)
So part of this is you being sure they're your people but at some level if they're not cool to you then they're not. So some positive self-talk about what you are looking for in "your people" should include that there's a mutual energy there. Maybe these folks are jerks, maybe they're not your type, who knows. But it seems like a bad fit if you want to be somewhere where you feel more part of it.
And on a final note, I remember a period of recreational drug use where I felt a whole lto like me except that I BELONGED more. Like there was some chemical in my brain that was like "You belong here" I'm not much of a drug user anymore, but remembering that some of this feeling, this belonging feeling can be chemical, has helped me as an older person sort out my feelings of not belonging somewhat.
posted by jessamyn at 4:04 PM on March 6, 2015 [41 favorites]
Quite possibly. I hung around a very similar scene (LGBT-friendly, anarchist, big city in the US) when I was in my twenties and it was ... challenging. A lot of people who were dismissive of hierarchy nonetheless setting up a lot of their own internal structures that could be exclusionary. Which is another way of saying, it's not just you.
I agree with Miko that sometimes it's useful to get an outside perspective on this sort of thing (therapist, social workers, friend from a long time ago, close family member) because there's a lot of status stuff (in non-celebrity contexts) that really is about perception of status and not status itself. And there's some "fake it til you make it" parts of that involved.
Put another way: you can't be low status everywhere, all the time (or, it's very unlikely), but you may be in contexts where you show up that way and you need to find other contexts. Ideally you could be high status in some places, low in others and middle-of-the-pack in still others. I mean IDEAL ideally there wouldn't be so much status jockeying but realistically a lot of people still do this sort of thing. They do it less as you get older. They do it less in some places than in others (I live in a small town in Vermont and there's just not that much of that sort of thing going on, that's why I am here)
So part of this is you being sure they're your people but at some level if they're not cool to you then they're not. So some positive self-talk about what you are looking for in "your people" should include that there's a mutual energy there. Maybe these folks are jerks, maybe they're not your type, who knows. But it seems like a bad fit if you want to be somewhere where you feel more part of it.
And on a final note, I remember a period of recreational drug use where I felt a whole lto like me except that I BELONGED more. Like there was some chemical in my brain that was like "You belong here" I'm not much of a drug user anymore, but remembering that some of this feeling, this belonging feeling can be chemical, has helped me as an older person sort out my feelings of not belonging somewhat.
posted by jessamyn at 4:04 PM on March 6, 2015 [41 favorites]
Anarchists are honestly the worst for hidden hierarchical structures - in part because there is no structure and so buy-in needs to be attained for decisionmaking, and so social capital matters a lot more in anarchist circles than in other circles, counter intuitively. I would try looking outside the group for validation and friendship.
posted by corb at 4:23 PM on March 6, 2015 [27 favorites]
posted by corb at 4:23 PM on March 6, 2015 [27 favorites]
If they don't like you, they're not your people.
I also was part of a 20-something anarchist community in a cosmopolitan area and can vouch for what Jessamyn and Corb have said. Hipsters are the absolute worst for thinking of themselves as nonconformists while at the same time looking down on anyone who seems more sincere than snarky. You seem a lot more authentic than people like that (in my experience) are comfortable with. There's something about vulnerability that a lot of folks can't handle, especially at 25.
I'm introverted and have found that for me, the best cure for loneliness is first, enjoying my own company and second, investing in the people that I already know care for me. If I happen to meet someone IRL that I click with, it's great but having a solid foundation before that means I'm not trying to befriend everybody and their brother out of loneliness.
I also consider myself a digital native, and I find a lot of solace in online communities just knowing that my people (people like you, actually) are out there. We're kind of scattered, though. Have you ever considered traveling the world, couchsurfing, hosteling, or the like? You might get a lot of fulfillment out of meeting people all over the planet.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 5:10 PM on March 6, 2015 [24 favorites]
I also was part of a 20-something anarchist community in a cosmopolitan area and can vouch for what Jessamyn and Corb have said. Hipsters are the absolute worst for thinking of themselves as nonconformists while at the same time looking down on anyone who seems more sincere than snarky. You seem a lot more authentic than people like that (in my experience) are comfortable with. There's something about vulnerability that a lot of folks can't handle, especially at 25.
I'm introverted and have found that for me, the best cure for loneliness is first, enjoying my own company and second, investing in the people that I already know care for me. If I happen to meet someone IRL that I click with, it's great but having a solid foundation before that means I'm not trying to befriend everybody and their brother out of loneliness.
I also consider myself a digital native, and I find a lot of solace in online communities just knowing that my people (people like you, actually) are out there. We're kind of scattered, though. Have you ever considered traveling the world, couchsurfing, hosteling, or the like? You might get a lot of fulfillment out of meeting people all over the planet.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 5:10 PM on March 6, 2015 [24 favorites]
Sounds like a plain old clique - honestly, the best thing to do is to get out of the "clique" mode of thinking. I am not a therapist, but I would say it boils down to abandoning the desire for "clique" validation and learning to think of people as their own unique entities. It's not high school anymore, thank goodness!
posted by Seeking Direction at 5:32 PM on March 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Seeking Direction at 5:32 PM on March 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just don't have the same interests that 95% of people have. That makes me feel isolated. I found those 5% who share my interests can be found on the internet. It's not equal to being popular, but I have found myself among a set of people who I can talk with. I am measured by the quality of my discrete thoughts, not by dynamic social interactions.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:34 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:34 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
ninjablob: "a result of being around early to mid twenties queer London-based anarchist art school type people"
Wow, this is really hyperspecific. Maybe you could try hanging out with people who are in their mid-twenties OR queer OR anarchists OR arty? Expand your circle out a little bit? Meet people who share some but not all of your interests, whose personalities may complement yours a bit better for being a bit different, so you don't share all the same strengths and weaknesses?
Also, I gotta tell you, "mid-20s queer London-based anarchist art school type people" sounds like people carrying around WOW a lot of baggage, from extreme housing costs to outsider status to possible cultural snobbery to strongly-held political views to being in their mid-20s. People with ONE of these descriptors may have unusually prickly personalities because these can all be stressful things to deal with. People with all of them, who aren't unusually mature and mellow and self-actualized, are probably absolute porcupines of human beings.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:49 PM on March 6, 2015 [20 favorites]
Wow, this is really hyperspecific. Maybe you could try hanging out with people who are in their mid-twenties OR queer OR anarchists OR arty? Expand your circle out a little bit? Meet people who share some but not all of your interests, whose personalities may complement yours a bit better for being a bit different, so you don't share all the same strengths and weaknesses?
Also, I gotta tell you, "mid-20s queer London-based anarchist art school type people" sounds like people carrying around WOW a lot of baggage, from extreme housing costs to outsider status to possible cultural snobbery to strongly-held political views to being in their mid-20s. People with ONE of these descriptors may have unusually prickly personalities because these can all be stressful things to deal with. People with all of them, who aren't unusually mature and mellow and self-actualized, are probably absolute porcupines of human beings.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:49 PM on March 6, 2015 [20 favorites]
Nthing the suggestions to branch out. There is one part of my life where I am pretty low-status, because status in that group is gained primarily through having knowing everyone else for 20 years. I have other contexts, though, where I am appreciated for my knowledge, or for my willingness to step up, or where status doesn't really seem to matter so much. Operating in multiple contexts and having some of those be places where I feel very appreciated makes it far more tolerable to be in places where I feel less appreciated and wanted.
Now is not forever. Good luck!
posted by bunderful at 5:54 PM on March 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Now is not forever. Good luck!
posted by bunderful at 5:54 PM on March 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Are you sure these are your people? Anarchists can be mean as fuck, they're all insecure inside, there's a lot of gender bullshit no matter how queer everyone is. I have quit a couple of "anarchist" social circles (I mean, I'm in an anarchist social circle right now, but it's a bit healthier.)
1. What draws you to these people? What parts of it are the political ideas, what parts are the day-to-day stuff, what parts are...whatever other parts? It may be possible to find another social group composed in much the same way - it feels like it isn't, I assume, but if there are multiple queer anarchist social circles in Minneapolis, there have to be several in London.
2. Do you like yourself? What do you think makes you a "low status" person in this crowd? (Believe me, I was a "low status" person in a particular radical left crowd, and when I realized that it was because I was AFAB but unfuckable and wanted to be taken seriously about books, I left.)
3. What would a good social network look like in this situation? Don't just say "people would like me"; really get into the particulars. Does anyone have this in your milieu except for the handful of people that everyone is either afraid of or wants to fuck? If so, what are those people like?
4. What do you value in yourself? I cannot believe that there are no anarchist social settings where what you value in yourself is valued by others.
Can you possibly meet more people? You might just be stuck in a horrible social eddy - I know there have been a couple of times when I randomly met some fantastic person and discovered a whole large social group attached to them, full of people I'd never even seen before.
But an actual answer to your question: the best thing I ever did for myself was to quit a social group where I was unhappy. I was working abroad, I didn't fit in with people - a lot of them were awful, but I was also pretty maladroit - and I realized that I spent a lot of time just feeling bad about myself, feeling insecure about my position in the group, etc. So I completely quit (which meant that I basically had no friends for five months or so). I rode my bike all over every night before bed and on the weekends, I took little trips around the city and one big trip elsewhere, I read a lot of books. I ate in restaurants by myself. Basically, I treated myself with respect. I learned that I could quit and I wouldn't die, I wouldn't be unable to go places, etc.
It helped me engage with groups from more of a position of strength, and once I didn't care so much, that helped me to project a little more coolness and distance, which in turn made people want my approval more. It also gave me a lot more interior resources - I'd read more and done more and become more self-reliant, so I really was a more interesting and capable person.
posted by Frowner at 6:14 PM on March 6, 2015 [19 favorites]
1. What draws you to these people? What parts of it are the political ideas, what parts are the day-to-day stuff, what parts are...whatever other parts? It may be possible to find another social group composed in much the same way - it feels like it isn't, I assume, but if there are multiple queer anarchist social circles in Minneapolis, there have to be several in London.
2. Do you like yourself? What do you think makes you a "low status" person in this crowd? (Believe me, I was a "low status" person in a particular radical left crowd, and when I realized that it was because I was AFAB but unfuckable and wanted to be taken seriously about books, I left.)
3. What would a good social network look like in this situation? Don't just say "people would like me"; really get into the particulars. Does anyone have this in your milieu except for the handful of people that everyone is either afraid of or wants to fuck? If so, what are those people like?
4. What do you value in yourself? I cannot believe that there are no anarchist social settings where what you value in yourself is valued by others.
Can you possibly meet more people? You might just be stuck in a horrible social eddy - I know there have been a couple of times when I randomly met some fantastic person and discovered a whole large social group attached to them, full of people I'd never even seen before.
But an actual answer to your question: the best thing I ever did for myself was to quit a social group where I was unhappy. I was working abroad, I didn't fit in with people - a lot of them were awful, but I was also pretty maladroit - and I realized that I spent a lot of time just feeling bad about myself, feeling insecure about my position in the group, etc. So I completely quit (which meant that I basically had no friends for five months or so). I rode my bike all over every night before bed and on the weekends, I took little trips around the city and one big trip elsewhere, I read a lot of books. I ate in restaurants by myself. Basically, I treated myself with respect. I learned that I could quit and I wouldn't die, I wouldn't be unable to go places, etc.
It helped me engage with groups from more of a position of strength, and once I didn't care so much, that helped me to project a little more coolness and distance, which in turn made people want my approval more. It also gave me a lot more interior resources - I'd read more and done more and become more self-reliant, so I really was a more interesting and capable person.
posted by Frowner at 6:14 PM on March 6, 2015 [19 favorites]
Oh, hey, also - sometimes having a friend who is a bit older and can see you as a Young Person With Potential is helpful. I know those sound like the words of a loon, but...well, okay, look, I made friends with a couple of younger people over the years who I could see were awkward and unhappy but who were also interesting and smart, and part of my goals in being their friends was to be kind to them so that they could have a base of security. They are people - we're still friends! but now they have more friends! - I liked a lot, really and truly, but I could also see them from a little bit of a distance because I was older, so that things that might seem too weird or "low status" to their immediate age peers weren't of concern to me. I'm explicitly not saying that I "fixed" them or something - I'm just saying that I think it was helpful for them to have a friend who was a constant and who wasn't engaged in the stuff their age peers were.
Would there be a way for you to spend time in a different kind of anarchist circle - one where people are older, perhaps? Being the "bright young person who knows young people things" can give you a lot more ballast in your dealings with your other social set.
posted by Frowner at 6:27 PM on March 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
Would there be a way for you to spend time in a different kind of anarchist circle - one where people are older, perhaps? Being the "bright young person who knows young people things" can give you a lot more ballast in your dealings with your other social set.
posted by Frowner at 6:27 PM on March 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm looking for suggestions on how to cope with being unpopular, feeling like a person low on an invisible but definitely existing social rank, how to deal with feeling rejected and low value.
You say that you're not looking for suggestions for how to make friends, and you're receiving some anyway.
I can't speak for others here, but it's hard to fight the impulse to give you that advice; it seems as though you've decided that being "unpopular" and "low social status" are due to who you are -- something you can't change -- instead of due to who you hang out with. This is a theme in your recent Asks.
So, my honest take:
The way you deal with being "unpopular" is to be kinder to yourself--to work on your confidence, to believe that you are a worthwhile, interesting person, and that you just haven't found the right circle yet. This won't solve your loneliness, but it will make it easier to be lonely. It will also make it easier to find the strength to look for people who fit you better.
Also, along that line of thought -- the words about "low social status" is kind of alarming, and makes it sound as though the people you're hanging out with don't have a healthy social dynamic. I've been in situations like that, where I felt I was low on the totem pole (due to gender, yay), and it wears you down. Even if you like the people in your group, the feeling that you're not fully respected can really do a number on your self-confidence. It may not be worth it to keep hanging out with these people.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:45 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
You say that you're not looking for suggestions for how to make friends, and you're receiving some anyway.
I can't speak for others here, but it's hard to fight the impulse to give you that advice; it seems as though you've decided that being "unpopular" and "low social status" are due to who you are -- something you can't change -- instead of due to who you hang out with. This is a theme in your recent Asks.
So, my honest take:
The way you deal with being "unpopular" is to be kinder to yourself--to work on your confidence, to believe that you are a worthwhile, interesting person, and that you just haven't found the right circle yet. This won't solve your loneliness, but it will make it easier to be lonely. It will also make it easier to find the strength to look for people who fit you better.
Also, along that line of thought -- the words about "low social status" is kind of alarming, and makes it sound as though the people you're hanging out with don't have a healthy social dynamic. I've been in situations like that, where I felt I was low on the totem pole (due to gender, yay), and it wears you down. Even if you like the people in your group, the feeling that you're not fully respected can really do a number on your self-confidence. It may not be worth it to keep hanging out with these people.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:45 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
How to cope with being unpopular? You know what, just do your own thing. You say you like yourself -- that's fantastic! Don't change yourself just to "fit in" with some random group of people.
And maybe being in a group really isn't your thing. That's ok! Cultivate friendships with just a couple people. Hang out with them away from the group, just you and them. Group dynamics can be weird and it's amazing (and often delightful) how different people can be when you're with them one-on-one.
I grew up as a dorky, unpopular kid and it wasn't until I was well into my career as a scientist that I found other people who were geeky and hyper-logical like me and valued independent thinking the way I do. I still avoid groups bcs things can get cliquey and hierarchical and I can't stand that sort of thing. I'm quirky and eccentric and not everyone can deal with that. But I have a handful of good friends and I've got a dear boyfriend who's quirky like me and I stopped caring long ago about winning some popularity contest. It can be lonely for sure, but don't get discouraged and if people ignore you or don't include you in their little social circle, hey whatevs, that's their problem -- you got your own thing going on.
posted by phoenix_rising at 6:48 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
And maybe being in a group really isn't your thing. That's ok! Cultivate friendships with just a couple people. Hang out with them away from the group, just you and them. Group dynamics can be weird and it's amazing (and often delightful) how different people can be when you're with them one-on-one.
I grew up as a dorky, unpopular kid and it wasn't until I was well into my career as a scientist that I found other people who were geeky and hyper-logical like me and valued independent thinking the way I do. I still avoid groups bcs things can get cliquey and hierarchical and I can't stand that sort of thing. I'm quirky and eccentric and not everyone can deal with that. But I have a handful of good friends and I've got a dear boyfriend who's quirky like me and I stopped caring long ago about winning some popularity contest. It can be lonely for sure, but don't get discouraged and if people ignore you or don't include you in their little social circle, hey whatevs, that's their problem -- you got your own thing going on.
posted by phoenix_rising at 6:48 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
"Mid twenties queer London-based anarchist art school type people" sound like they could be very clique-y, snobbish and superficial. I don't have experience with that group as a whole but I have experience with young people, queer people, London people, art people and leftists, and if you add those all up I can see how it could be a really intimidating and capricious social scene. So if you are struggling, remind yourself that you are swimming in some really rough waters! Everybody is probably desperately worried about being cool.
As cool as a lot of these people seem now, take my word for it, in 15 years you'll all be leading very different lives. People will be fat and wrinkly, with kids and dull jobs, and you'll see them on the 2030 equivalent of Facebook and they'll look like they're 60-year-old accountants or something. (At least that's been my experience, with the artsy crowd I used to hover around.) Right now the cool people probably seem impossibly glamorous, but it will not last. The most intimidatingly gorgeous, kick-ass young lady you know is probably going to become somebody's frumpy, unhappy mom who gazes out the window and sighs over her lost youth. A lot of the anarchists will go conservative, a surprising number of the LGBT folks may go straight, and almost nobody will end up working in the arts. (Adulthood sucks, basically.)
All you can do is try to be the very best version of yourself that you can be. The golden rule goes both ways: you should try to treat everybody as well as you'd like to be treated, but you should also try to hold other people to the standards you set for yourself. If somebody is mean to you in a way you would never be mean to somebody else, that person is not cool. That person is a dick, and they don't deserve to know ya.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:28 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
As cool as a lot of these people seem now, take my word for it, in 15 years you'll all be leading very different lives. People will be fat and wrinkly, with kids and dull jobs, and you'll see them on the 2030 equivalent of Facebook and they'll look like they're 60-year-old accountants or something. (At least that's been my experience, with the artsy crowd I used to hover around.) Right now the cool people probably seem impossibly glamorous, but it will not last. The most intimidatingly gorgeous, kick-ass young lady you know is probably going to become somebody's frumpy, unhappy mom who gazes out the window and sighs over her lost youth. A lot of the anarchists will go conservative, a surprising number of the LGBT folks may go straight, and almost nobody will end up working in the arts. (Adulthood sucks, basically.)
All you can do is try to be the very best version of yourself that you can be. The golden rule goes both ways: you should try to treat everybody as well as you'd like to be treated, but you should also try to hold other people to the standards you set for yourself. If somebody is mean to you in a way you would never be mean to somebody else, that person is not cool. That person is a dick, and they don't deserve to know ya.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:28 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
(Or maybe this isn't normal and is a result of being around early to mid twenties queer London-based anarchist art school type people who all seem to know each other, but I honestly don't know what else to do, I feel like these are 'my people' even though none of them like me)
Storytime!
Once upon a time in a small town lived a teenage girl named Empresscallipygos. She really wasn't like very many of the people in her town, except for the theater geeks - she definitely felt like they were "her people", because they cared about similar things, and liked to do similar things.
But all the other theater people in her town seemed to forget about her sometimes. Sure, they liked her, but a lot of times they'd get all caught up talking amongst themselves to themselves and Empresscallipygos would be just sort of sitting there near them, wondering if they'd notice her. Sometimes they'd all go off and do fun things and wouldn't invite her. Worst of all - they'd give each other theater things to do, but not really do the same for her. And this made Empresscallipygos sad because she thought, "this must mean I'm not as good at this as I thought, and this must mean I'm not good enough to be their friend. Which sucks because these are my people, and they don't even want me."
But EmpressCallipygos hung in there and grew up, and one day she moved to a different place. She met a whole new bunch of people - including some theater people - and they all liked her a lot better, and they remembered to let her join in, and remembered to talk to her. And best of all, they encouraged her to do the things she liked, and told her when she was good at something. And she started to believe her new friends.
And after many years went by, EmpressCallipygos' old friends had a reunion in her home town, and wanted to put on a show - and she offered to help them. Not only were her old friends grateful, they were in awe - because as it turned out, EmpressCallipygos was actually more successful than they were, and they kept telling her she saved their show.
And EmpressCallipygos also realized something really important too - that she was wrong that her old friends were "her people". They were related to her people, they were her kind of people, but they weren't all the way "her" people. She'd just had to find who really were her people all along.
And so after that reunion, Empresscallipygos went back home to her real people and lived happilly ever after.
The moral:
...Yes, it's possible that anarchist art students are "your people", but there are more anarchist art students in the world than THIS crowd. You need to find the anarchist art students that actually treat you decently - because THOSE anarchist art students are the ones who ACTUALLY ARE your people.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:55 PM on March 6, 2015 [26 favorites]
Storytime!
Once upon a time in a small town lived a teenage girl named Empresscallipygos. She really wasn't like very many of the people in her town, except for the theater geeks - she definitely felt like they were "her people", because they cared about similar things, and liked to do similar things.
But all the other theater people in her town seemed to forget about her sometimes. Sure, they liked her, but a lot of times they'd get all caught up talking amongst themselves to themselves and Empresscallipygos would be just sort of sitting there near them, wondering if they'd notice her. Sometimes they'd all go off and do fun things and wouldn't invite her. Worst of all - they'd give each other theater things to do, but not really do the same for her. And this made Empresscallipygos sad because she thought, "this must mean I'm not as good at this as I thought, and this must mean I'm not good enough to be their friend. Which sucks because these are my people, and they don't even want me."
But EmpressCallipygos hung in there and grew up, and one day she moved to a different place. She met a whole new bunch of people - including some theater people - and they all liked her a lot better, and they remembered to let her join in, and remembered to talk to her. And best of all, they encouraged her to do the things she liked, and told her when she was good at something. And she started to believe her new friends.
And after many years went by, EmpressCallipygos' old friends had a reunion in her home town, and wanted to put on a show - and she offered to help them. Not only were her old friends grateful, they were in awe - because as it turned out, EmpressCallipygos was actually more successful than they were, and they kept telling her she saved their show.
And EmpressCallipygos also realized something really important too - that she was wrong that her old friends were "her people". They were related to her people, they were her kind of people, but they weren't all the way "her" people. She'd just had to find who really were her people all along.
And so after that reunion, Empresscallipygos went back home to her real people and lived happilly ever after.
The moral:
...Yes, it's possible that anarchist art students are "your people", but there are more anarchist art students in the world than THIS crowd. You need to find the anarchist art students that actually treat you decently - because THOSE anarchist art students are the ones who ACTUALLY ARE your people.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:55 PM on March 6, 2015 [26 favorites]
The "social hierarchy" is an imaginary construct. Sometimes the best way to change your position on the ladder is to find a new ladder. I'm having this weird experience where I lived in SF for 14 years and got so much pressure to look a certain way and have a certain income level and it just stressed me out so much. Now I'm in Portland, OR where the vibe is way more Columbia than Banana Republic, so I feel well-dressed and a bit more put-together. My income might be lower, but in perspective it's all I need in this environment.
Also, be more controlled with empathy. I tend to worry about everyone I know and how they're feeling about A, B, or C. I'm learning to stop caring about people who don't care that I care. Cut people off sooner, *you're* the one who matters in this equation. Stop thinking about whether you're worthy of people's friendship and think about whether they're worthy of yours.
posted by bendy at 8:45 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also, be more controlled with empathy. I tend to worry about everyone I know and how they're feeling about A, B, or C. I'm learning to stop caring about people who don't care that I care. Cut people off sooner, *you're* the one who matters in this equation. Stop thinking about whether you're worthy of people's friendship and think about whether they're worthy of yours.
posted by bendy at 8:45 PM on March 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
I've been unpopular before. The best solution is total independence - you are beholden to no one. So just go do your own thing. It can feel lonely - so find ways to fill that loneliness - but also totally liberating. Go travel alone, read what you want, see whatever shows and movies you want.
posted by Toddles at 9:27 PM on March 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Toddles at 9:27 PM on March 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
The best thing for you to do is to cultivate lots of solo hobbies so that you can fill up all the time you'll be spending alone. That way you won't think about it as much. I know that sounds kind of harsh but I don't mean it that way. I'm the same way, I just can't connect with most people, and most don't want to really bother. This is just reality for some people. Finding stuff to keep my brain preoccupied has helped tremendously. I'm not saying stop trying to find people that dig you, but in the meantime you can stave off the depression that comes with being this type of person.
posted by katyggls at 1:35 AM on March 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by katyggls at 1:35 AM on March 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
So part of this is you being sure they're your people but at some level if they're not cool to you then they're not.
Jessamyn nailed it, I think. And apologies for being another person addressing slightly the wrong question, but I think the assumption in the first paragraph of your 'more inside' is fundamentally flawed and needs addressing, rather than just saying "Yeah, you're right, everyone in the world will probably always dislike you, so here are some skills to deal with it..."
One thing I remember from being a twenty-something in London is that it often felt incredibly difficult to meet people who weren't almost exactly like me, when described in list form (in my case it was more like "20-something journalists who grew up in the suburbs who've moved into London," rather than "early to mid twenties queer London-based anarchist art school type people" but similar kind of silo).
So it's easy to think these are "your people" because you've got check-list similarities and they're the ones you've ended up hanging out with, and therefore you just have to put up with the way they treat you (which sounds really poor, btw - I'm sorry you've had to put up with them).
But maybe your people are actually going to turn out to be a bunch of really nice folk with completely different lifestyles/ages/political opinions to you, but who really like you... and the one thing you've got in common is that you all hang out down at the climbing wall, or the outdoor swimming ponds, or the running club or whatever.
So I guess I'm saying maybe try something wildly different, fling yourself into a few different niches and see if one of them fits. If nothing else, having a few completely different social groups means it's less heart-wrenching if one if them starts treating you badly, because that doesn't leave you all alone and looking for coping strategies.
(I've used as examples some vaguely active, but non-competitive groups, because my personal experience has been that they've been the some of the most welcoming and all-embracing to all-comers that I've come across, but YMMV.)
posted by penguin pie at 4:36 AM on March 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Jessamyn nailed it, I think. And apologies for being another person addressing slightly the wrong question, but I think the assumption in the first paragraph of your 'more inside' is fundamentally flawed and needs addressing, rather than just saying "Yeah, you're right, everyone in the world will probably always dislike you, so here are some skills to deal with it..."
One thing I remember from being a twenty-something in London is that it often felt incredibly difficult to meet people who weren't almost exactly like me, when described in list form (in my case it was more like "20-something journalists who grew up in the suburbs who've moved into London," rather than "early to mid twenties queer London-based anarchist art school type people" but similar kind of silo).
So it's easy to think these are "your people" because you've got check-list similarities and they're the ones you've ended up hanging out with, and therefore you just have to put up with the way they treat you (which sounds really poor, btw - I'm sorry you've had to put up with them).
But maybe your people are actually going to turn out to be a bunch of really nice folk with completely different lifestyles/ages/political opinions to you, but who really like you... and the one thing you've got in common is that you all hang out down at the climbing wall, or the outdoor swimming ponds, or the running club or whatever.
So I guess I'm saying maybe try something wildly different, fling yourself into a few different niches and see if one of them fits. If nothing else, having a few completely different social groups means it's less heart-wrenching if one if them starts treating you badly, because that doesn't leave you all alone and looking for coping strategies.
(I've used as examples some vaguely active, but non-competitive groups, because my personal experience has been that they've been the some of the most welcoming and all-embracing to all-comers that I've come across, but YMMV.)
posted by penguin pie at 4:36 AM on March 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
It could be that everyone around you are a bunch of dicks. As your last paragraph seems to imply.
posted by deathpanels at 4:54 AM on March 7, 2015
posted by deathpanels at 4:54 AM on March 7, 2015
I completely agree with the sage advice of both Frowner and bendy-- cut ties with social groups that make you feel left out: "stop caring about people who don't care that you care." So true. Easier said than done, but bottom line is you cannot change these people. They have shown you who they are. How to cope? Believe them, and actively choose to move on socially.
A thought experiment for you: is a non-anarchist, non-artist, non-20-something inherently some type of a low-status, unworthy person? Of course not. Now imagine the best, most kind, loving, joyful types of people in the world, who have more often than not been total mensches to their fellow human beings. Do you think they would mesh well with this specific London group that's currently excluding you? Hell no-- pretty sure this specific group would not want to include them either. So... why bother with folks who get you down? The problem is that you find these types of people to be friend-attractive (because: youth). One of the best things about being closer to 50 than 20 is that you hopefully learn to be friend-attracted to humans with the personal qualities that truly matter. Hang in there.
posted by hush at 7:05 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
A thought experiment for you: is a non-anarchist, non-artist, non-20-something inherently some type of a low-status, unworthy person? Of course not. Now imagine the best, most kind, loving, joyful types of people in the world, who have more often than not been total mensches to their fellow human beings. Do you think they would mesh well with this specific London group that's currently excluding you? Hell no-- pretty sure this specific group would not want to include them either. So... why bother with folks who get you down? The problem is that you find these types of people to be friend-attractive (because: youth). One of the best things about being closer to 50 than 20 is that you hopefully learn to be friend-attracted to humans with the personal qualities that truly matter. Hang in there.
posted by hush at 7:05 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can you unpack for us what being "low social status" or "low in the social hierarchy" means? I did notice you mentioned people not paying any attention to you unless you're "high-status" in another question as well, but I have no real clear idea what this means. What would being high-status look like? Are they well-known, successful, well-connected, hard-to-please, scary to cross, what? What (other than people not being friendly) leads you to believe you are low status?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:52 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:52 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I worked for a few years at a company where some of my coworkers consistently, in ways large and small, made me feel unimportant and stupid. It was so repetitive and insidious that for a long time after I left I still felt dumb and low-status whenever I thought of anyone from that company. I was talking to a therapist about it at one point, after I'd left the job, and told her that when I thought of them I felt "low on the totem pole."
She said, "You're not on their totem pole anymore. You've made your own totem pole. What does your totem pole look like?" And we talked about "my" totem pole - i.e. the qualities I value in the others around me. It was quite eye-opening to remember that those people who put me down and devalued me were actually NOT high status in my life. Because I don't value jerks and mean people, no matter how smart, successful, or interesting they are. You haven't talked about what you value, the type of people you like and what's important to you. As people have suggested above, seek that out over "being accepted" by people who are unfriendly and cliquey.
posted by rogerrogerwhatsyourrvectorvicto at 8:23 AM on March 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
She said, "You're not on their totem pole anymore. You've made your own totem pole. What does your totem pole look like?" And we talked about "my" totem pole - i.e. the qualities I value in the others around me. It was quite eye-opening to remember that those people who put me down and devalued me were actually NOT high status in my life. Because I don't value jerks and mean people, no matter how smart, successful, or interesting they are. You haven't talked about what you value, the type of people you like and what's important to you. As people have suggested above, seek that out over "being accepted" by people who are unfriendly and cliquey.
posted by rogerrogerwhatsyourrvectorvicto at 8:23 AM on March 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
PS. Almost every good thing I learned about relationships came from binge reading the Human Relations tag on AskMeFi. There is so much good advice there and so many repeat questions that helped me realize that I am not at all a freaky damaged person who is the only person who has ever been as sad and lonely as I am.
posted by bendy at 8:27 PM on March 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by bendy at 8:27 PM on March 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
I agree with most of the comments here who say you should be yourself, and learn to enjoy your own company.
Concentrate on what it is you're trying to do, your work, your studies, your interests.
This is what will help you be yourself, this is what will make you learn more about what you value in life.
Being popular is a temporary thing....popular people don't know each other very well, they like the way others look more than anything else, like it was in high school.
Growing up you'll learn what's important to you, and follow that feeling.
You could volunteer somewhere where help is needed and meet others there who will respect you for acting on your feelings of wanting to help others.
There are plenty of opportunities in any community for volunteering. There are after-school programs that probably need help to aid students with their homework.
The library is a good place to see programs seeking volunteers. This will be a rewarding experience for you.
Try it.
You are not alone.
posted by billl at 11:16 AM on March 8, 2015
Concentrate on what it is you're trying to do, your work, your studies, your interests.
This is what will help you be yourself, this is what will make you learn more about what you value in life.
Being popular is a temporary thing....popular people don't know each other very well, they like the way others look more than anything else, like it was in high school.
Growing up you'll learn what's important to you, and follow that feeling.
You could volunteer somewhere where help is needed and meet others there who will respect you for acting on your feelings of wanting to help others.
There are plenty of opportunities in any community for volunteering. There are after-school programs that probably need help to aid students with their homework.
The library is a good place to see programs seeking volunteers. This will be a rewarding experience for you.
Try it.
You are not alone.
posted by billl at 11:16 AM on March 8, 2015
I was in a bar the other day that is supposed to be a very cool bar in the very cool town of Athens, GA. But I couldn't tell, because I am 24 years older than most of the patrons. I just don't know or care what I am supposed to be doing to fit in with the in crowd, because I have other concerns (like, "does my shirt's pattern hide breast-milk stains?" and "I'm up past 8:45. Will I be able to drive myself home?")
This is the most fantastic thing about getting older, for me. You just care less about things like fitting in with a particular group. So maybe you should try going somewhere that is "cool" with people younger than you, to gain some perspective. Like, go hang out in Claire's (a sparkly jewelry store), at the mall, or at Chuck E. Cheese. Observe all the gyrations the patrons are going through to fit in ("Check out THIS friendship bracelet!" "My hoodie has panda ears on it!") and realize how, due to your age, you are detached from all of that now. It just fails to register. Realize that the same thing will be true of the Queer London Anarchists years from now.
posted by staggering termagant at 11:18 AM on March 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is the most fantastic thing about getting older, for me. You just care less about things like fitting in with a particular group. So maybe you should try going somewhere that is "cool" with people younger than you, to gain some perspective. Like, go hang out in Claire's (a sparkly jewelry store), at the mall, or at Chuck E. Cheese. Observe all the gyrations the patrons are going through to fit in ("Check out THIS friendship bracelet!" "My hoodie has panda ears on it!") and realize how, due to your age, you are detached from all of that now. It just fails to register. Realize that the same thing will be true of the Queer London Anarchists years from now.
posted by staggering termagant at 11:18 AM on March 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Miko at 3:41 PM on March 6, 2015 [12 favorites]