Unusual wage question
January 18, 2015 12:18 AM Subscribe
I'm getting paid per unit rather than per hour and I think I need to re-negotiate the terms. But what do I need to ask for?
I was recently hired to do some data entry for a small business. I've never really done any data entry before (though I am quite a fast and accurate typist) and they've never hired anyone to do the data entry before - It was always something that they just tried to do here and there.
The minimum wage where I live is roughly $17 and this business normally pays their casual staff members $20 per hour. The expectation was that I would be entering roughly 20 items into the system per hour, so we ended up deciding that $1 per item would work well. That way, I'm getting paid for the work that I do and they can be sure that they're getting their money's worth.
The problem is that after doing the work for a couple of days, I don't think the wage we negotiated is fair. The computer that I am using is slow to start up and to use, it takes time to bring the items to my work area and to return them to where I got them from, and I think that it takes more time to enter the information than we estimated. On top of that, if any of the staff want to talk to me about the products or want to bring me certain products to enter into the system (and I have to wait for them to work out which products etc), I'm not getting paid for it. A five minute conversation about the product ends up costing me money, essentially, while the other person is getting paid to have that conversation. I will definitely get faster over time, but other data entry jobs usually pay an hourly wage regardless of what you enter. After a few hours of work, I'm averaging about $12/hour.
There are some perks to this job - flexible hours, no uniform, staff discounts. I am also being paid as an employee, so a percentage on top of my wage is being put into a retirement fund. This is a bit unusual, because I think that being paid per unit technically puts me into sub-contractor territory...
I would like to keep working for at least another few days before talking to my boss about this, but I am unsure what to ask for and whether it would be reasonable or realistic to ask for more.
Some ideas I came up with include a small base hourly wage (anywhere from $2.50 or $5.00 per hour), or an extra 20-50 cents per unit. Any other ideas? Suggestions? Comments?
My financial situation is not great at the moment, so every dollar counts and I'd rather not lose this job. But I also want to ask for what I deserve, if I do indeed deserve more!
I was recently hired to do some data entry for a small business. I've never really done any data entry before (though I am quite a fast and accurate typist) and they've never hired anyone to do the data entry before - It was always something that they just tried to do here and there.
The minimum wage where I live is roughly $17 and this business normally pays their casual staff members $20 per hour. The expectation was that I would be entering roughly 20 items into the system per hour, so we ended up deciding that $1 per item would work well. That way, I'm getting paid for the work that I do and they can be sure that they're getting their money's worth.
The problem is that after doing the work for a couple of days, I don't think the wage we negotiated is fair. The computer that I am using is slow to start up and to use, it takes time to bring the items to my work area and to return them to where I got them from, and I think that it takes more time to enter the information than we estimated. On top of that, if any of the staff want to talk to me about the products or want to bring me certain products to enter into the system (and I have to wait for them to work out which products etc), I'm not getting paid for it. A five minute conversation about the product ends up costing me money, essentially, while the other person is getting paid to have that conversation. I will definitely get faster over time, but other data entry jobs usually pay an hourly wage regardless of what you enter. After a few hours of work, I'm averaging about $12/hour.
There are some perks to this job - flexible hours, no uniform, staff discounts. I am also being paid as an employee, so a percentage on top of my wage is being put into a retirement fund. This is a bit unusual, because I think that being paid per unit technically puts me into sub-contractor territory...
I would like to keep working for at least another few days before talking to my boss about this, but I am unsure what to ask for and whether it would be reasonable or realistic to ask for more.
Some ideas I came up with include a small base hourly wage (anywhere from $2.50 or $5.00 per hour), or an extra 20-50 cents per unit. Any other ideas? Suggestions? Comments?
My financial situation is not great at the moment, so every dollar counts and I'd rather not lose this job. But I also want to ask for what I deserve, if I do indeed deserve more!
If you earn $5.00 per hour plus 50 cents per item then at your current rate (12 items per hour) you'll only earn $11 per hour. Don't do that.
Your company assumed they'd pay $20 per hour so why not just ask for that? I can see why the piece work thing seemed like a good idea but it's clearly not working. It really only does when you have complete control over how long it takes to do each thing, every thing is exactly the same (no waiting for instructions), and you're at home or somewhere where you're able to just get on with it. None of that applies here and an hourly rate is going to be fairer to everyone involved.
Personally I'd have this conversation now. But if you do wait, I'd start actually saying straight out to people "I'm only getting paid for what I input so I'm not getting paid right now talking with you", then see how that goes down. Not in an upset or accusing way, just kind of FYI. Because if one of my coworkers said that to me I'd be agitating for them to be on an hourly rate pretty quickly, especially if I'm holding them up while I decide about products etc.
posted by shelleycat at 2:18 AM on January 18, 2015
Your company assumed they'd pay $20 per hour so why not just ask for that? I can see why the piece work thing seemed like a good idea but it's clearly not working. It really only does when you have complete control over how long it takes to do each thing, every thing is exactly the same (no waiting for instructions), and you're at home or somewhere where you're able to just get on with it. None of that applies here and an hourly rate is going to be fairer to everyone involved.
Personally I'd have this conversation now. But if you do wait, I'd start actually saying straight out to people "I'm only getting paid for what I input so I'm not getting paid right now talking with you", then see how that goes down. Not in an upset or accusing way, just kind of FYI. Because if one of my coworkers said that to me I'd be agitating for them to be on an hourly rate pretty quickly, especially if I'm holding them up while I decide about products etc.
posted by shelleycat at 2:18 AM on January 18, 2015
Hah, I just realised I was conflating your base rate *or* extra pay per item. I still think a straight hourly rate of pay makes more sense given random amounts of your time are being spent discussing and waiting for items to input and also the subpar equipment you've been provided with. I've done data entry before and I was only ever paid per hour (more than minimum wage too, it's a somewhat skilled job).
posted by shelleycat at 2:21 AM on January 18, 2015
posted by shelleycat at 2:21 AM on January 18, 2015
This strikes me as really stupid and shady. It's like outsourcing the callcenter attitude that any wasted time is wasting the companies dollar to you. Now you get to be the one who seems huffy and unfair when they don't want to lean and chat.
If your boss pulls you aside to talk to you, you're not getting paid for that conversation... and if you try and quickly disengage, you come off as the asshole. This is effectively creating a dumb dead end job where either you get paid way less than you should, and less than minimum wage but are chummy and personable(and maybe get drilled for not having high enough output) or become the person no one likes to just crank out work like a robot.
Was there some concern that you weren't doing the amount of work per day they expected of you here? because this seems like a really shitty, passive aggressive, underhanded way to basically tell you that.
I would maybe support this sort of setup if at a reasonable rate you'd easily be making $20 an hour, and if you really crammed it you could hit $22-25 or something. But the way it's structured only benefits them, and paints you in to an awkward corner here.
So yes, i think you should try and negotiate for just a flat hourly rate.
posted by emptythought at 3:53 AM on January 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
If your boss pulls you aside to talk to you, you're not getting paid for that conversation... and if you try and quickly disengage, you come off as the asshole. This is effectively creating a dumb dead end job where either you get paid way less than you should, and less than minimum wage but are chummy and personable(and maybe get drilled for not having high enough output) or become the person no one likes to just crank out work like a robot.
Was there some concern that you weren't doing the amount of work per day they expected of you here? because this seems like a really shitty, passive aggressive, underhanded way to basically tell you that.
I would maybe support this sort of setup if at a reasonable rate you'd easily be making $20 an hour, and if you really crammed it you could hit $22-25 or something. But the way it's structured only benefits them, and paints you in to an awkward corner here.
So yes, i think you should try and negotiate for just a flat hourly rate.
posted by emptythought at 3:53 AM on January 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Frankly isn't this sort of thing illegal?
Just go to the guy and tell him, "This isn't working out for me, although I have the capacity to input over 20 pieces an hour, there are factors out of my control that restrict it. (Foo, Bah, Blah.) Now that we've established that my productivity is where you'd like it to be, and because I'm doing things other than just data entry, I think moving to a standard hourly rate is appropriate in this instance. Since most folks here start at $20 an hour, that would be appropriate for me as well."
If they don't agree, you can counter with, "I've discovered that there are certain issues with piecework (research the local wage and hour laws in your area) and frankly I don't want either of us to get into trouble behind it."
Don't EVER get involved in this shit again. Unions exist in the US pretty much because piecework is so unfair and bogus.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:59 AM on January 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Just go to the guy and tell him, "This isn't working out for me, although I have the capacity to input over 20 pieces an hour, there are factors out of my control that restrict it. (Foo, Bah, Blah.) Now that we've established that my productivity is where you'd like it to be, and because I'm doing things other than just data entry, I think moving to a standard hourly rate is appropriate in this instance. Since most folks here start at $20 an hour, that would be appropriate for me as well."
If they don't agree, you can counter with, "I've discovered that there are certain issues with piecework (research the local wage and hour laws in your area) and frankly I don't want either of us to get into trouble behind it."
Don't EVER get involved in this shit again. Unions exist in the US pretty much because piecework is so unfair and bogus.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:59 AM on January 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
For anyone responding, I suspect the OP is not in the US. I don't think there's anywhere in the US (even cities/counties) where minimum wage is $17; even the places that have caught attention recently for unusually high minimum wages (Seattle, San Francisco) aren't set to go beyond $15.
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:31 AM on January 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:31 AM on January 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think I'd ask for a flat rate of minimum wage ($17/hour) - it will be hard for them to say no to that, and it's a significant raise from what you are getting right now.
Optionally, you could also ask for a bonus system - e.g., if you are able to enter in X pieces of information in a day/week, you get some kind of structured extra bonus.
posted by insectosaurus at 8:04 AM on January 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Optionally, you could also ask for a bonus system - e.g., if you are able to enter in X pieces of information in a day/week, you get some kind of structured extra bonus.
posted by insectosaurus at 8:04 AM on January 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
As a massage therapist, I essentially do "piecework" in that I am only paid for actual massages I give. If I don't work, I don't get paid. As with your job, there are certain tasks I have to do (laundry, paperwork, cleaning up, etc.) that I'm not directly paid for, but they just come with the territory.
Unlike some others, I find nothing unfair about piecework per se. BUT. I am paid a high enough rate for the actual massages I give that my unpaid tasks and dead time when nobody has scheduled can be rolled into my day and I still make a decent living.
In your case, you're just not being paid enough per unit. That's really the only issue here, imo. Sure, you could ask for an hourly wage. But you could also just ask for a higher pay rate per unit. That is what I would do. I like the idea of being paid more for doing faster work (as long as it's still accurate). Personally, that would motivate me more in what I would find to be an extremely boring job (data entry). Your idea of having a base rate on top of the piece rate would work fine, too.
If your employers are remotely reasonable people and you present the situation as it stands to them, I can't imagine they wouldn't work with you to find a mutually-acceptable solution.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 9:36 AM on January 18, 2015
Unlike some others, I find nothing unfair about piecework per se. BUT. I am paid a high enough rate for the actual massages I give that my unpaid tasks and dead time when nobody has scheduled can be rolled into my day and I still make a decent living.
In your case, you're just not being paid enough per unit. That's really the only issue here, imo. Sure, you could ask for an hourly wage. But you could also just ask for a higher pay rate per unit. That is what I would do. I like the idea of being paid more for doing faster work (as long as it's still accurate). Personally, that would motivate me more in what I would find to be an extremely boring job (data entry). Your idea of having a base rate on top of the piece rate would work fine, too.
If your employers are remotely reasonable people and you present the situation as it stands to them, I can't imagine they wouldn't work with you to find a mutually-acceptable solution.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 9:36 AM on January 18, 2015
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