Is there an age where life is "over" for most people?
December 30, 2014 11:04 AM Subscribe
Is there an age where life (or an essential aspect of life) is "over" for most people? In a posts about immortality, 45 year olds show up to say that at their age, you won't want to live forever anymore. In threads about sex, 35 year olds show up to say that's the year it dropped off severely. In threads about friendships, there is a refrain of isolation that began at 25.
Are these real phenomenons? If they are real, have you managed to beat them? Are there other ones that I'm missing? I'm looking for a roadmap of what to expect, and if possible, what to fight against.
I've always gotten the impression that people who complain of one thing or another going to hell in a handcart at a particular birthday are either selling something or must go through life feeling as though the universe just happens to them. I don't subscribe to that sort of studied lack of agency, so my vote is that "this is not a thing."
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 11:16 AM on December 30, 2014 [36 favorites]
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 11:16 AM on December 30, 2014 [36 favorites]
In threads about friendships, there is a refrain of isolation that began at 25.
It is really, super dependent on your social and cultural context. For instance, with this specific thing I am quite convinced that friendship eroding into "social isolation" in the mid-20s is a matter of college ending and everyone integrating into the humdrum workaday world. For instance, in my own life I felt something like this around the age of 22-23 when I left college and moved across the country to a small city for work, but then everything picked up - and my late-20s social life was excellent - when I moved again to a larger, more vibrant city.
The others are going to depend as well. Even the one about sex lives, which would seem to be at least somewhat biologically determined (and there is some evidence to support this) - if you have a lousy sex life in your 20s and then meet a new, amazingly compatible partner at 35, yours is going to improve.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:17 AM on December 30, 2014 [5 favorites]
It is really, super dependent on your social and cultural context. For instance, with this specific thing I am quite convinced that friendship eroding into "social isolation" in the mid-20s is a matter of college ending and everyone integrating into the humdrum workaday world. For instance, in my own life I felt something like this around the age of 22-23 when I left college and moved across the country to a small city for work, but then everything picked up - and my late-20s social life was excellent - when I moved again to a larger, more vibrant city.
The others are going to depend as well. Even the one about sex lives, which would seem to be at least somewhat biologically determined (and there is some evidence to support this) - if you have a lousy sex life in your 20s and then meet a new, amazingly compatible partner at 35, yours is going to improve.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:17 AM on December 30, 2014 [5 favorites]
"Over", what? Things change, that's all, usually as a consequence of role obligations or opportunity and maybe sometimes biology. But there are people getting it on in nursing homes, making new friends in their 40s, and trekking in their 60s.
In my observation, and according to some research I've read (but don't have time to summarize right now, sorry), "fighting" the erosion of important life activities and lifejuice involves
- taking basic care of your body (knees especially)
- staying socially engaged, nurturing friendships
- staying culturally engaged, remaining open and curious, adapting
- pursuing hobbies and interests with some vigour
- doing what you can to minimize exposure to some of the things that wear people out (extreme stress, grinding poverty), i.e. get the bottom layer of Maslow's pyramid down
(Also, wear sunscreen.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:18 AM on December 30, 2014 [18 favorites]
In my observation, and according to some research I've read (but don't have time to summarize right now, sorry), "fighting" the erosion of important life activities and lifejuice involves
- taking basic care of your body (knees especially)
- staying socially engaged, nurturing friendships
- staying culturally engaged, remaining open and curious, adapting
- pursuing hobbies and interests with some vigour
- doing what you can to minimize exposure to some of the things that wear people out (extreme stress, grinding poverty), i.e. get the bottom layer of Maslow's pyramid down
(Also, wear sunscreen.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:18 AM on December 30, 2014 [18 favorites]
I'm almost 60, retired, grandmother, etc.... I was a full-tilt career oriented person until four years ago when the economic meltdown coupled with the success of my husband's business sent me headlong into retirement.
Sure, my life is completely different now, but there are still not enough hours in the day to do what I want.
At 60, we are much more aware of our general health status (AND our own mortality) than when we were younger. That's about it.
posted by raisingsand at 11:18 AM on December 30, 2014 [19 favorites]
Sure, my life is completely different now, but there are still not enough hours in the day to do what I want.
At 60, we are much more aware of our general health status (AND our own mortality) than when we were younger. That's about it.
posted by raisingsand at 11:18 AM on December 30, 2014 [19 favorites]
I am 64 and currently have cancer. Nothing is over. None of any of the above-mentioned stuff. It changes, but it is far from over!
posted by Danf at 11:19 AM on December 30, 2014 [42 favorites]
posted by Danf at 11:19 AM on December 30, 2014 [42 favorites]
It sounds to me like you are asking about stages of psychological development (developmental psychology)
"Middle adulthood generally refers to the period between ages 25 to 69. During this period, middle-aged adults experience a conflict between generativity and stagnation. They may either feel a sense of contributing to society, the next generation or their immediate community or a sense of purposelessness."
"According to Erikson's Theory of Psychosocial Development, old age is the stage in which individuals assess the quality of their lives. In reflecting on their lives, people in this age group develop a feeling of integrity if deciding that their lives were successful or a feeling of despair if evaluation of one's life indicates a failure to achieve goals."
This is all kind of normal and nothing to fight against so to speak, provided you make peace with each stage.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:21 AM on December 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
"Middle adulthood generally refers to the period between ages 25 to 69. During this period, middle-aged adults experience a conflict between generativity and stagnation. They may either feel a sense of contributing to society, the next generation or their immediate community or a sense of purposelessness."
"According to Erikson's Theory of Psychosocial Development, old age is the stage in which individuals assess the quality of their lives. In reflecting on their lives, people in this age group develop a feeling of integrity if deciding that their lives were successful or a feeling of despair if evaluation of one's life indicates a failure to achieve goals."
This is all kind of normal and nothing to fight against so to speak, provided you make peace with each stage.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:21 AM on December 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
My father is 79, in a nursing home, with cancer. He says his body is old, but his mind still feels young. He's still making new friends.
He doesn't want to live forever, but, y'know, he doesn't want to die just quite yet. There are still conversations to have and people to meet. There are still things to celebrate and things to fight against.
It's not over until you believe it's over, or until it's actually 100% you're-dead over.
posted by clawsoon at 11:22 AM on December 30, 2014 [10 favorites]
He doesn't want to live forever, but, y'know, he doesn't want to die just quite yet. There are still conversations to have and people to meet. There are still things to celebrate and things to fight against.
It's not over until you believe it's over, or until it's actually 100% you're-dead over.
posted by clawsoon at 11:22 AM on December 30, 2014 [10 favorites]
To be honest, I think there's something about being young (under 30, say), that is wrapped up in narratives about Things that End when you reach a certain age thereby producing a Must Carpe Diem Now response. But in my experience (mid 40s female), none of these narratives hold up when you get to that Scary Age.
Does my body heal less quickly? Sure. But it's also stronger (I think) and I love it more.
Have my friendships changed? Of course. They're not as intense on a daily basis but I feel well supported and loved and nurtured. I know what i need to ask for and I know what I can give.
Is sex different? True 'nuff. Honestly, it's better. And, seriously, I want it more often. (Maybe because I love my body more.)
Don't let the Scary Narratives of What's to Come stop you from seeing and experiencing your own story.
posted by correcaminos at 11:22 AM on December 30, 2014 [34 favorites]
Does my body heal less quickly? Sure. But it's also stronger (I think) and I love it more.
Have my friendships changed? Of course. They're not as intense on a daily basis but I feel well supported and loved and nurtured. I know what i need to ask for and I know what I can give.
Is sex different? True 'nuff. Honestly, it's better. And, seriously, I want it more often. (Maybe because I love my body more.)
Don't let the Scary Narratives of What's to Come stop you from seeing and experiencing your own story.
posted by correcaminos at 11:22 AM on December 30, 2014 [34 favorites]
I can't say about 35 and beyond, but I can vouch that I've been enjoying life considerably more after turning 30. And the things I thought I'd miss about being young (namely, perfect taut skin and high metabolism) are small potatoes compared to all I'm gaining getting older (perspective, income, general life skills and abilities).
posted by magdalemon at 11:23 AM on December 30, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by magdalemon at 11:23 AM on December 30, 2014 [6 favorites]
>45 year olds show up to say that at their age, you won't want to live forever anymore.
A lot of people in their mid-to-late forties--like me--are seeing what another thirty-five years on top of that is doing to their parents. I want to live forever as much as I ever did; I also want to be able to fly, lift cars, talk to animals, and meet space people. However, in real life, when you're watching family members gradually lose their self-agency, dignity, health, lucidity, etc., etc., it does not tend to make you think, "If only this could go on forever."
This is not to say that there's anything intrinsically sucky about being in your forties; there isn't. Stay healthy and engaged and you'll have as much or more appetite for life as you've ever had.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:23 AM on December 30, 2014 [7 favorites]
A lot of people in their mid-to-late forties--like me--are seeing what another thirty-five years on top of that is doing to their parents. I want to live forever as much as I ever did; I also want to be able to fly, lift cars, talk to animals, and meet space people. However, in real life, when you're watching family members gradually lose their self-agency, dignity, health, lucidity, etc., etc., it does not tend to make you think, "If only this could go on forever."
This is not to say that there's anything intrinsically sucky about being in your forties; there isn't. Stay healthy and engaged and you'll have as much or more appetite for life as you've ever had.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:23 AM on December 30, 2014 [7 favorites]
Man, my teens and twenties sucked. I was so emotionally labile and my friendships and romantic attachments often felt like they had a dangerous and unhealthy intensity.
At 31, I'm more boring, more stable, and way, way happier. My friendships and relationships are community oriented. I want to make the world a better place for my kid, my family, and my friends, instead of just living for fleeting, selfish pleasures.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:24 AM on December 30, 2014 [10 favorites]
At 31, I'm more boring, more stable, and way, way happier. My friendships and relationships are community oriented. I want to make the world a better place for my kid, my family, and my friends, instead of just living for fleeting, selfish pleasures.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:24 AM on December 30, 2014 [10 favorites]
I would definitely not say my sex life dropped off after 35... I mean, I'm only 36, so maybe it's getting ready to tank any second? My early twenties were kind of rough in terms of friendships, but it wasn't permanent. One thing I have noticed is that a lot of women of my acquaintance have some kind of dramatic change in their relationship with their mothers (for good or ill or just different) around age 30.
I don't think these are real phenomena insofar as being directly tied to age, although maybe they're tied to sort of "what you have going on in your life," which does *correlate* with age. Like, I bet if I had small children, as many of my 36-year-old friends do, my sex life would be really really different.
Seriously, though, I am way happier and in better shape and having loads more sex and am closer with my friends and family at 36 than I was at 20-anything, and if I'm approaching a sheer drop-off in any of those areas it's going to catch me seriously by surprise. I have a different perspective on life now than I did ten years ago, for sure, to the point where this question seems kind of silly and indulgent (but irresistible nonetheless!).
posted by mskyle at 11:26 AM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think these are real phenomena insofar as being directly tied to age, although maybe they're tied to sort of "what you have going on in your life," which does *correlate* with age. Like, I bet if I had small children, as many of my 36-year-old friends do, my sex life would be really really different.
Seriously, though, I am way happier and in better shape and having loads more sex and am closer with my friends and family at 36 than I was at 20-anything, and if I'm approaching a sheer drop-off in any of those areas it's going to catch me seriously by surprise. I have a different perspective on life now than I did ten years ago, for sure, to the point where this question seems kind of silly and indulgent (but irresistible nonetheless!).
posted by mskyle at 11:26 AM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
So much about the bell curves of friendship depends on what you're doing, not your age.
So for instance, ime, there's a time when you have a 1 year old that you suddenly make new parent friends who become like family. You emerge from the cocoon of having a newborn and the friendships with other mothers of the same stage just *take.* Something about the need for community at that point, for other moms support...people become porous and open to friendship in a way that you see, say, on a freshman dorm.
But you might be 38 with the newish baby, and the other mom 28. It's not the age, it's the context.
Or you could be newly married in mid-life, or newly divorced...your energy goes into different directions than if you'd just been married for 20 years.
I know someone who went to law school at 57, and after a 20 year law career married at 80. Don't let age become a self-fulfilling narrative.
posted by third rail at 11:28 AM on December 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
So for instance, ime, there's a time when you have a 1 year old that you suddenly make new parent friends who become like family. You emerge from the cocoon of having a newborn and the friendships with other mothers of the same stage just *take.* Something about the need for community at that point, for other moms support...people become porous and open to friendship in a way that you see, say, on a freshman dorm.
But you might be 38 with the newish baby, and the other mom 28. It's not the age, it's the context.
Or you could be newly married in mid-life, or newly divorced...your energy goes into different directions than if you'd just been married for 20 years.
I know someone who went to law school at 57, and after a 20 year law career married at 80. Don't let age become a self-fulfilling narrative.
posted by third rail at 11:28 AM on December 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm approaching 40 and I'm certain life only gets better with each passing year! 40 looks much different through 40 year old eyes than it does through 20 year old eyes.
Keep yourself healthy, inside and out, and keep good company! You will understand yourself and the world better as you age.
Here's Scientific Proof That Life Gets Better As You Get Older
I can't seem to find it but I recall reading about a study that showed 20-something's thought their 20's were the best years of their lives, 30-something's thought it was their 30's... And so on, right into old age!
posted by ellenaim at 11:29 AM on December 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
Keep yourself healthy, inside and out, and keep good company! You will understand yourself and the world better as you age.
Here's Scientific Proof That Life Gets Better As You Get Older
I can't seem to find it but I recall reading about a study that showed 20-something's thought their 20's were the best years of their lives, 30-something's thought it was their 30's... And so on, right into old age!
posted by ellenaim at 11:29 AM on December 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm 36, married for ten years as of last Halloween, and still having sex at least twice a week. Hell, sometimes we do it twice a day, or three times, but that's rarer now. (My secret is doing dishes.) I'm not sure about the isolation after 25 deal, because I never had any friends as a child or a teenager. Just about all of my friends are Internet friends, and you can make of that whatever you will.
I'd say the real enemies are habit and retirement. I think the problems habit can cause over the course of a lifetime should be obvious, so let's talk about retirement.
I think the reason a lot of people over forty-five don't want to live forever is that they imagine doing the jobs they do for centuries or millennia and view such an existence as a living Hell. Ahriman knows I don't want to spend the next ten thousand years coding for a living.
But you need something to do with your life, and work won't be enough. Love won't be enough, with all due respect to Lazarus Long. Altruism isn't enough, either. You need a purpose whose primary beneficiary is you, but doesn't harm others, a long-term goal that you've chosen for yourself without any concern for whether others will think you're selfish.
I realized this when I was eighteen and contemplating suicide. I figured that whether I went to college, went straight to work, or joined the military I'd just be spending my life working to make rich assholes even richer, leaving little behind but years of pay stubs and tax returns, and perhaps a house full of books and heavy metal albums.
I wanted to leave more behind than that. I wanted to leave a scar on the world. Since I couldn't do it as a musician, I took up writing. I was utter shit at first, even worse than writers I despised for lame plots and villains that wouldn't make the grade as mid-bosses in a Japanese RPG. I kept at it, and got better, but I still have a long journey ahead of me before I've done everything I set out to do.
posted by starbreaker at 11:31 AM on December 30, 2014 [7 favorites]
I'd say the real enemies are habit and retirement. I think the problems habit can cause over the course of a lifetime should be obvious, so let's talk about retirement.
I think the reason a lot of people over forty-five don't want to live forever is that they imagine doing the jobs they do for centuries or millennia and view such an existence as a living Hell. Ahriman knows I don't want to spend the next ten thousand years coding for a living.
But you need something to do with your life, and work won't be enough. Love won't be enough, with all due respect to Lazarus Long. Altruism isn't enough, either. You need a purpose whose primary beneficiary is you, but doesn't harm others, a long-term goal that you've chosen for yourself without any concern for whether others will think you're selfish.
I realized this when I was eighteen and contemplating suicide. I figured that whether I went to college, went straight to work, or joined the military I'd just be spending my life working to make rich assholes even richer, leaving little behind but years of pay stubs and tax returns, and perhaps a house full of books and heavy metal albums.
I wanted to leave more behind than that. I wanted to leave a scar on the world. Since I couldn't do it as a musician, I took up writing. I was utter shit at first, even worse than writers I despised for lame plots and villains that wouldn't make the grade as mid-bosses in a Japanese RPG. I kept at it, and got better, but I still have a long journey ahead of me before I've done everything I set out to do.
posted by starbreaker at 11:31 AM on December 30, 2014 [7 favorites]
So far as I can tell, the only thing that was ever "over" at a given age was tolerance for booze. At 27 I completely stopped being able to drink a lot or function through a hangover, and this was anecdotally true for a lot of my friends around the same age (a few of them managed to hold out until 30).
Apart from that it feels as though the adults I know are all confronting different forms of the same struggles, regardless of age. My 32 year old best friend struggles to find a stable relationship, and so does my 60 year old mother. Everyone juggles jobs and friends and acquaintances and experiences periods of ebb and flow that seem to be independent of age. And I know two people who feel like, and frequently say, they're "over." One of them is 35, and one is nearly 80. In both cases, honestly, they're just slightly-depressed and highly critical people who are harder on themselves than they are on others.
The key going forward would be to keep your expectations reasonable and flexible. Expect that sometimes you'll have more friends than you can handle and sometimes you will be hard up for anyone to grab a drink with. Expect that probably, you won't be a bazillionaire or massive celebrity, not because you're "over" and you failed but because almost nobody leads that life. Expect that your health will change in unpredictable ways. Expect that you will be consistently surprised by almost everything.
What to fight against? Needless suffering. Save your money and don't smoke. Don't rack up stupid debt. Don't hold stupid grudges. Don't give in to too much bitterness. Go to the dentist (dear god, go to the dentist.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:40 AM on December 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
Apart from that it feels as though the adults I know are all confronting different forms of the same struggles, regardless of age. My 32 year old best friend struggles to find a stable relationship, and so does my 60 year old mother. Everyone juggles jobs and friends and acquaintances and experiences periods of ebb and flow that seem to be independent of age. And I know two people who feel like, and frequently say, they're "over." One of them is 35, and one is nearly 80. In both cases, honestly, they're just slightly-depressed and highly critical people who are harder on themselves than they are on others.
The key going forward would be to keep your expectations reasonable and flexible. Expect that sometimes you'll have more friends than you can handle and sometimes you will be hard up for anyone to grab a drink with. Expect that probably, you won't be a bazillionaire or massive celebrity, not because you're "over" and you failed but because almost nobody leads that life. Expect that your health will change in unpredictable ways. Expect that you will be consistently surprised by almost everything.
What to fight against? Needless suffering. Save your money and don't smoke. Don't rack up stupid debt. Don't hold stupid grudges. Don't give in to too much bitterness. Go to the dentist (dear god, go to the dentist.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:40 AM on December 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm looking for a roadmap of what to expect, and if possible, what to fight against.
What to expect is too subjective to put on a roadmap. What to fight against is the urge to use up your energy trying to control things.
Anxiety fucks today without fixing tomorrow. That's what's worth fighting against.
posted by headnsouth at 11:41 AM on December 30, 2014 [32 favorites]
What to expect is too subjective to put on a roadmap. What to fight against is the urge to use up your energy trying to control things.
Anxiety fucks today without fixing tomorrow. That's what's worth fighting against.
posted by headnsouth at 11:41 AM on December 30, 2014 [32 favorites]
Actually, to PhoBWanKenobi's point - one thing that I've been happy to let be "over" is the kind of fierce idealism that can sometimes lead to cynicism or nihilism, which in turn, with time and luck, can mellow into a sense of humour about things, and a realistic acceptance of the world as it is, coupled with more grounded and at the same time more hopeful expectations of what can be done with the time you've got. (E.g.: early 20s: We need to overhaul the system! Late 20s: The world is full of assholes and nothing's ever going to change. 30s+: I understand that I am probably not Che Guevara, but I can contribute to discussions about land use in my neighbourhood.)
Related: neuroticism tends to decline with age, while agreeableness tends to increase.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:42 AM on December 30, 2014 [16 favorites]
Related: neuroticism tends to decline with age, while agreeableness tends to increase.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:42 AM on December 30, 2014 [16 favorites]
Sex gets SO much better for women at somewhere between 30 and 35 that it's hard for me to fathom thinking that any decline ever arrives. I'm 54 and so far so good LOL although I certainly don't want to live forever, but I never really have.
posted by janey47 at 11:48 AM on December 30, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by janey47 at 11:48 AM on December 30, 2014 [6 favorites]
However, here's the roadmap I wish I'd had when I was younger.
The great virtue of youth is certainty. It takes young people to lead a revolution, because only young people have the certainty that things must change and things can change in one generation. Only young people have the ability (and tendency) to see things in black and white -- yes, no, right, wrong. I LOVE how young people can run with a firm idea (see, e.g., Occupy).
The drawback of certainty is that stuff gets thrown out with the bathwater. Especially in adolescence, everyone believes that there is ONE way to do things (what clothes to wear, what music to listen to, whom to have sex with, and what sex positions are acceptable) and it takes a lot of intestinal fortitude to break free of that. Adolescence can be summed up by: "Mom, you can't tell me what to do, I am my own person now and I MUST have the same sneakers everyone else is wearing!"
So then old age. Or middle age. Or whatever you want to call it but not youth. The virtue of age is perspective. That's why you see (old) people (like me) saying "I so do not GAF what others think of me." We tend to get less overwrought by certain issues, because we've seen the pendulum swing each way a time or two and we know that (a) it's REALLY hard to push that pendulum our way and keep it there for any length of time and (b) it'll come back our way in its own time anyway. This too shall pass.
The drawback of perspective is that it leads to passivity. "Oh who cares, it's all ephemeral anyway."
The other big problem is that curmudgeons can get snarky about youth. I tell my friends that you know you're old when you start giving in to the pessimism bias -- "In my day, we had it much harder than kids do today but we were better people for it." "That's not music, that's noise." "Fashions in clothing today are ridiculous, people who buy whatever is currently 'in' are just fashion victims" (I noticed this last one the first time from someone who was wearing what was 'in' when he was a teenager, but he thought it was a 'classic' look. Uh, no. It was unattractive.)
But I think it's relatively easy to watch for and avoid the pessimism bias once you're aware of it. And as long as we remind ourselves to watch out for passivity, perspective can lead to pretty great wisdom in things both large and small. That makes for a really wonderful life. And that perspective is also what lets us see that it's coming to an end, and pretty soon at that. And the more aware we are that our time is limited, the less we take for granted what we have and the less we procrastinate. When we really get it that everything ends, we don't waste a minute. We say "I love you." We realize that there no sense in "protecting" our hearts, because they'll be broken no matter what we do. We give things away because they're better off with someone else. Realizing the truth of impermanence is one of the greatest gifts of age.
posted by janey47 at 11:51 AM on December 30, 2014 [19 favorites]
The great virtue of youth is certainty. It takes young people to lead a revolution, because only young people have the certainty that things must change and things can change in one generation. Only young people have the ability (and tendency) to see things in black and white -- yes, no, right, wrong. I LOVE how young people can run with a firm idea (see, e.g., Occupy).
The drawback of certainty is that stuff gets thrown out with the bathwater. Especially in adolescence, everyone believes that there is ONE way to do things (what clothes to wear, what music to listen to, whom to have sex with, and what sex positions are acceptable) and it takes a lot of intestinal fortitude to break free of that. Adolescence can be summed up by: "Mom, you can't tell me what to do, I am my own person now and I MUST have the same sneakers everyone else is wearing!"
So then old age. Or middle age. Or whatever you want to call it but not youth. The virtue of age is perspective. That's why you see (old) people (like me) saying "I so do not GAF what others think of me." We tend to get less overwrought by certain issues, because we've seen the pendulum swing each way a time or two and we know that (a) it's REALLY hard to push that pendulum our way and keep it there for any length of time and (b) it'll come back our way in its own time anyway. This too shall pass.
The drawback of perspective is that it leads to passivity. "Oh who cares, it's all ephemeral anyway."
The other big problem is that curmudgeons can get snarky about youth. I tell my friends that you know you're old when you start giving in to the pessimism bias -- "In my day, we had it much harder than kids do today but we were better people for it." "That's not music, that's noise." "Fashions in clothing today are ridiculous, people who buy whatever is currently 'in' are just fashion victims" (I noticed this last one the first time from someone who was wearing what was 'in' when he was a teenager, but he thought it was a 'classic' look. Uh, no. It was unattractive.)
But I think it's relatively easy to watch for and avoid the pessimism bias once you're aware of it. And as long as we remind ourselves to watch out for passivity, perspective can lead to pretty great wisdom in things both large and small. That makes for a really wonderful life. And that perspective is also what lets us see that it's coming to an end, and pretty soon at that. And the more aware we are that our time is limited, the less we take for granted what we have and the less we procrastinate. When we really get it that everything ends, we don't waste a minute. We say "I love you." We realize that there no sense in "protecting" our hearts, because they'll be broken no matter what we do. We give things away because they're better off with someone else. Realizing the truth of impermanence is one of the greatest gifts of age.
posted by janey47 at 11:51 AM on December 30, 2014 [19 favorites]
I'm 45. I'm just slowly becoming slightly less of a moron so I'm hoping to hold on to that for a bit. I always double the age I'm at and think I'm halfway there. When I'm sixty I'll be totally telling myself I'll live to be 120. Unless things suck.
I know things now I didn't 'get' before, like that in my family it was a sign of weakness and frivolity to have emotions, just ordinary human emotions. There had to be a catalyst, like alcohol, or a fight--but you couldn't just say 'I am feeling uncertain' 'I am at sea' 'your newfound interest frightens me'. Things you can say with normal emotional literacy, at least quietly, to yourself. I am just learning how to say those things, which sounds remedial probably but is actually pretty satisfying to attempt.
At a certain point you lose people and it is my understanding that is where you die, if you're aiming to choose when. When everyone else is gone, their minds are gone or they are gone, and your body can't do the fun stuff it did previously, and your mind starts slipping.
I don't think it's at fucking 45, however.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:58 AM on December 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
I know things now I didn't 'get' before, like that in my family it was a sign of weakness and frivolity to have emotions, just ordinary human emotions. There had to be a catalyst, like alcohol, or a fight--but you couldn't just say 'I am feeling uncertain' 'I am at sea' 'your newfound interest frightens me'. Things you can say with normal emotional literacy, at least quietly, to yourself. I am just learning how to say those things, which sounds remedial probably but is actually pretty satisfying to attempt.
At a certain point you lose people and it is my understanding that is where you die, if you're aiming to choose when. When everyone else is gone, their minds are gone or they are gone, and your body can't do the fun stuff it did previously, and your mind starts slipping.
I don't think it's at fucking 45, however.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:58 AM on December 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
there is a refrain of isolation that began at 25
Also I think that's where new friendships drop off but the lifetime partnership bit ramps up for many people. For many of us, that doesn't hit the ground until 30, 35, 40, 45 etc - but you get the idea--recreational relationships are slower to emerge, and more effort is put into longer term things.
Sometimes really stupidly. My dumbest relationship was when I was 29-to-30 and panicking! panicking! O the dimming of the light! When really I was just young and stupid and should have skipped the whole thing. But then I guess I wouldn't be where I am now, 45, with my second husband who is my best friend, and my daughter, who is so awesome.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:05 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
Also I think that's where new friendships drop off but the lifetime partnership bit ramps up for many people. For many of us, that doesn't hit the ground until 30, 35, 40, 45 etc - but you get the idea--recreational relationships are slower to emerge, and more effort is put into longer term things.
Sometimes really stupidly. My dumbest relationship was when I was 29-to-30 and panicking! panicking! O the dimming of the light! When really I was just young and stupid and should have skipped the whole thing. But then I guess I wouldn't be where I am now, 45, with my second husband who is my best friend, and my daughter, who is so awesome.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:05 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
At 35 or so my sex life (I'm married) started being less about quantity and more about quality.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:22 PM on December 30, 2014
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:22 PM on December 30, 2014
I recently attended the funeral of a man who lived to be 103. He remained dedicated his whole life to learning new things. One of his caregivers was from -- I think it was Armenia -- and he began learning the language from her. To me that's key, to always have something you're interested in doing or learning. Then things don't "end."
posted by JanetLand at 12:24 PM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by JanetLand at 12:24 PM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
In my experience, the age at which it is over always seems to be about fifteen years older than the one I am currently at. Seriously, I have found that life generally gets better as I get older, if only because I let go of a little more crap, in the form of other people's expectations, every year.
If you're looking for inspiration, you might want to check out the answers to this question I asked around this time last year.
posted by rpfields at 12:34 PM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you're looking for inspiration, you might want to check out the answers to this question I asked around this time last year.
posted by rpfields at 12:34 PM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
68 and no, none of the above (OP's) contentions hold true for me. I suspect health may be more of a determinant of those things than age, and while there is a correlation there are no magic numbers.
posted by GeeEmm at 12:48 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by GeeEmm at 12:48 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
Five days ago I watched my husband's 93 year old grandmother, who still lives alone and was wearing surprisingly fashionable jeans, crawl around on the kitchen floor with a wrench trying to figure out why the sink was leaking. Life is never over until you decide it is. I know people 50 years younger than her who have already decided the best part of their life is gone, and I just think: Man, that is a lot of time to waste.
posted by something something at 12:49 PM on December 30, 2014 [21 favorites]
posted by something something at 12:49 PM on December 30, 2014 [21 favorites]
Well, for women (and later men) there's a point at which you can no longer make babies. For some people that's hard, for others, it's occasion for a party. There's a point at which you have to admit you are losing hair, or you need bifocals, or you just can't handle five-alarm chili anymore without Unpleasant Consequences, so, in terms of your body, at some point some things are over.
But so long as your mind is working, then love, discovery, joy, heartbreak, curiosity, all the rest, can't be "over." You won't think about things the same way you did at 16, but who wants that anyway? 16 is fine to go through once, but who wants to get stuck there? Not me.
So I'm 43. When I was younger, I found "old people" (like those my age and older) offputting, because I had a hard time believing one could possibly enjoy life while being wrinkly and having old people health problems and so on. They scared me. I didn't want to be what they were. Why they were practically dead!
But of course, I knew nothing. It's no fun having various parts of your body cease to look good or stop working properly, and I personally would be fine if people could one day grow new bodies in vats and not have to put up with that. But while I am now past the point of even pretending to aspire to conventional hotness, I find that I enjoy everything so much more than I did when I was aspiring to it. I eat amazing food whenever I can with joy and pleasure. I read books that force my brain to work really hard and stretch itself. I have the skills to work with a disparate, cantankerous group of people to accomplish worthwhile things. I have experience to draw on when crap happens. I say no and don't agonize about it. Life remains intensely interesting. I am not a husk of a former woman, waiting for the wind to blow me away.
posted by emjaybee at 12:51 PM on December 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
But so long as your mind is working, then love, discovery, joy, heartbreak, curiosity, all the rest, can't be "over." You won't think about things the same way you did at 16, but who wants that anyway? 16 is fine to go through once, but who wants to get stuck there? Not me.
So I'm 43. When I was younger, I found "old people" (like those my age and older) offputting, because I had a hard time believing one could possibly enjoy life while being wrinkly and having old people health problems and so on. They scared me. I didn't want to be what they were. Why they were practically dead!
But of course, I knew nothing. It's no fun having various parts of your body cease to look good or stop working properly, and I personally would be fine if people could one day grow new bodies in vats and not have to put up with that. But while I am now past the point of even pretending to aspire to conventional hotness, I find that I enjoy everything so much more than I did when I was aspiring to it. I eat amazing food whenever I can with joy and pleasure. I read books that force my brain to work really hard and stretch itself. I have the skills to work with a disparate, cantankerous group of people to accomplish worthwhile things. I have experience to draw on when crap happens. I say no and don't agonize about it. Life remains intensely interesting. I am not a husk of a former woman, waiting for the wind to blow me away.
posted by emjaybee at 12:51 PM on December 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
One good way to "fight" is to keep learning. Cooking, knitting, coding, a new sport, what have you.
Oliver Sacks writes in one of his recent books about the vast neuropsychological benefits of playing music. I take Sacks pretty seriously, so I'll be off on this road myself shortly. If you have any musical inclinations, you might want to pick up a new instrument - or an old one. Even singing in a chorus would be a great way to do this.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 1:18 PM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
Oliver Sacks writes in one of his recent books about the vast neuropsychological benefits of playing music. I take Sacks pretty seriously, so I'll be off on this road myself shortly. If you have any musical inclinations, you might want to pick up a new instrument - or an old one. Even singing in a chorus would be a great way to do this.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 1:18 PM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
Fight against stagnation.
The best way I've found to keep from becoming stale is to constantly introduce new things into my life. New foods, languages, places, people, etc. When you're young, you get a lot of this simply from existing. Schooling and jobs and friends are all fresh, then you settle with one house, one career, one lover, etc, and it all just becomes samey-samey. There's nothing wrong with doing those things, as long as you find them fulfilling. But there are so many foods I have yet to try, so many flowers I haven't smelled, so many walks I haven't been on, so many new people to meet who all have interesting stories. Getting to do those things keeps one's brain active, which is the majority of the battle.
Some things will get worse as you get older. You can't keep spinning all of your plates. But you can keep as many of them spinning as you can and become a pretty good plate spinner into the bargain.
posted by Solomon at 1:20 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
The best way I've found to keep from becoming stale is to constantly introduce new things into my life. New foods, languages, places, people, etc. When you're young, you get a lot of this simply from existing. Schooling and jobs and friends are all fresh, then you settle with one house, one career, one lover, etc, and it all just becomes samey-samey. There's nothing wrong with doing those things, as long as you find them fulfilling. But there are so many foods I have yet to try, so many flowers I haven't smelled, so many walks I haven't been on, so many new people to meet who all have interesting stories. Getting to do those things keeps one's brain active, which is the majority of the battle.
Some things will get worse as you get older. You can't keep spinning all of your plates. But you can keep as many of them spinning as you can and become a pretty good plate spinner into the bargain.
posted by Solomon at 1:20 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm 43.
I wish I could front-page publish all of the words above me celebrating aging. Because the greatest secret you will never hear is that getting older is fabulous.
No, there's not a point where life feels "over." You only feel more and more understanding and loving and forgiving about life. You realize every "wrong" anyone ever does is just a misunderstanding, a mistake, that you also could have made, given the right circumstances.
You realize how much you missed by being young and judgy and stupid! And you laugh and love yourself and anyone and everyone else all the more.
The greatest mistake our society has made is devaluing older people. What they know and understand is priceless.
posted by Punctual at 1:23 PM on December 30, 2014 [7 favorites]
I wish I could front-page publish all of the words above me celebrating aging. Because the greatest secret you will never hear is that getting older is fabulous.
No, there's not a point where life feels "over." You only feel more and more understanding and loving and forgiving about life. You realize every "wrong" anyone ever does is just a misunderstanding, a mistake, that you also could have made, given the right circumstances.
You realize how much you missed by being young and judgy and stupid! And you laugh and love yourself and anyone and everyone else all the more.
The greatest mistake our society has made is devaluing older people. What they know and understand is priceless.
posted by Punctual at 1:23 PM on December 30, 2014 [7 favorites]
When I was 16 and trying to bond with some other young women over body image issues, one of them rolled her eyes and said, "Ugh! I wish I was still your age! You'll understand when you're 18!"
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 1:24 PM on December 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 1:24 PM on December 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
I read and liked something like this..
at 20 when you dance you are concerned who's watching
at 40, you don't care anymore
at 60, you realise they were never watching anyway.
posted by tanktop at 1:43 PM on December 30, 2014 [7 favorites]
at 20 when you dance you are concerned who's watching
at 40, you don't care anymore
at 60, you realise they were never watching anyway.
posted by tanktop at 1:43 PM on December 30, 2014 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: All of these responses are great and very inspirational. Thanks. Have I just been around unusually downbeat people? I just feel like I've seen most everyone in my family be progressively crushed by time rather than blossoming into it.
posted by the jam at 1:51 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by the jam at 1:51 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
I have a vivid memory of being on a bike tour in Oregon and hanging out at a townie bar and having a drink and chatting with this local dude. He was gruff and had a potbelly going and a kind of defeated air. He expressed admiration for the type of adventure I was on, and he said something about how life was kind of over for him and all the good days were behind him. When I asked how old he was he said "I'm 25" with a grunt. For him, through, growing up in rural America, the local high school football team was the major and really only thing going on in the town. They were all over the newspapers. After that, you go from being king of the local scene to just some schmo trying to get by, and there's not much to look forward to, maybe you drive a truck or something for the next 40 or 50 years. That's all he could see, so no wonder he felt like it was all over.
I have seen people get crushed by time, too. We shouldn't pretend it doesn't happen. I think being stuck in one's pain is the common thread here, as that erodes your ability to see beyond yourself and to believe in yourself as a person who deserves to 'blossom', and thus blinds you to opportunities and cuts you off from people; instead you are forced to harden. I think too that we should not underestimate the real effects of socioeconomic status and mobility. Someone who grows up with few resources and few prospects is going to have a harder time blossoming and getting unstuck. It is hard to defeat pain when the source is ongoing. What would I tell that guy in the bar, chin up, just spend the money you don't have and never will, and go on a grand bike tour adventure like me? You're only as stuck as you feel, just move to a big city and get a job with the college education you don't have and never will? Stop smoking and drinking, and all the other unhealthy coping strategies you've developed that are more or less getting you through the week?
For people who manage to get their lives in order, and their emotional states in order, for whom life is not a prison, being alive can be great, and getting older can be great too as it opens up new worlds to explore. For people for whom life is a prison, getting older can represent the gradual loss of youth, possibility, and hope for a different future, which is/was one of their only assets. I suppose I am suggesting trying to feel compassion for those who are stuck, but also prioritizing your own emotional well-being as a way of guarding against becoming stuck yourself.
posted by PercussivePaul at 2:28 PM on December 30, 2014 [28 favorites]
I have seen people get crushed by time, too. We shouldn't pretend it doesn't happen. I think being stuck in one's pain is the common thread here, as that erodes your ability to see beyond yourself and to believe in yourself as a person who deserves to 'blossom', and thus blinds you to opportunities and cuts you off from people; instead you are forced to harden. I think too that we should not underestimate the real effects of socioeconomic status and mobility. Someone who grows up with few resources and few prospects is going to have a harder time blossoming and getting unstuck. It is hard to defeat pain when the source is ongoing. What would I tell that guy in the bar, chin up, just spend the money you don't have and never will, and go on a grand bike tour adventure like me? You're only as stuck as you feel, just move to a big city and get a job with the college education you don't have and never will? Stop smoking and drinking, and all the other unhealthy coping strategies you've developed that are more or less getting you through the week?
For people who manage to get their lives in order, and their emotional states in order, for whom life is not a prison, being alive can be great, and getting older can be great too as it opens up new worlds to explore. For people for whom life is a prison, getting older can represent the gradual loss of youth, possibility, and hope for a different future, which is/was one of their only assets. I suppose I am suggesting trying to feel compassion for those who are stuck, but also prioritizing your own emotional well-being as a way of guarding against becoming stuck yourself.
posted by PercussivePaul at 2:28 PM on December 30, 2014 [28 favorites]
It ain't over 'til it's over, even babies who arrive in the form of grandchildren.
posted by Elsie at 2:36 PM on December 30, 2014
posted by Elsie at 2:36 PM on December 30, 2014
Here's something George Eliot wrote in Middlemarch, which I think says a lot:
If youth is the season of hope, it is often so only in the sense that our elders are hopeful about us; for no age is so apt as youth to think its emotions, partings, and resolves are the last of their kind. Each crisis seems final, simply because it is new. We are told that the oldest inhabitants in Peru do not cease to be agitated by the earthquakes, but they probably see beyond each shock, and reflect that there are plenty more to come.
posted by janey47 at 3:09 PM on December 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
If youth is the season of hope, it is often so only in the sense that our elders are hopeful about us; for no age is so apt as youth to think its emotions, partings, and resolves are the last of their kind. Each crisis seems final, simply because it is new. We are told that the oldest inhabitants in Peru do not cease to be agitated by the earthquakes, but they probably see beyond each shock, and reflect that there are plenty more to come.
posted by janey47 at 3:09 PM on December 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
Yes, I agree with PercussivePaul. I think all the above ideas make certain assumptions about privilege and relative wealth. A good number of people cannot, by themselves, "minimize exposure to grinding poverty" or "stress" when systemic issues constrain them, or genes throw them a curveball. Luck plays a massive role in who gets to feel what, there's no denying that.
posted by cotton dress sock at 3:12 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by cotton dress sock at 3:12 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
In my experience (as I close in on the half-century mark) the only thing that I have really noticed is a certain let-us-say physical resilience that faded around 25. Before that I would go flying over the handlebars of a speeding bike, fall off a porch, take all the skin off my palms and knees in a headlong careen into gravel, whatever. Almost as soon as I stood up again, I would be raring to go at full steam.
By 35, I would stub my toe and it would still be tender two days later, or a paper cut on my finger would be making me wince for three days.
Socially, psychologically, everything is only better than it was. My response to a related question a year ago still stands for me.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:39 PM on December 30, 2014
By 35, I would stub my toe and it would still be tender two days later, or a paper cut on my finger would be making me wince for three days.
Socially, psychologically, everything is only better than it was. My response to a related question a year ago still stands for me.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:39 PM on December 30, 2014
Have I just been around unusually downbeat people? I just feel like I've seen most everyone in my family be progressively crushed by time rather than blossoming into it
I think it's easy to be crushed by time if you try to hang onto it. If you accept that new and different things are coming, it's a lot easier.
For example: Things will never, ever, seem to matter to me as intensely as they did when I was a teenager and was just experiencing hormones and emotions and relationships for the first time. I will never, ever, live functioning on that much adrenaline ever again. That was a good time, and I don't regret it, but I let it go when it was time to move onto my twenties, and I was glad I did. Some people in their twenties tried to recreate their emotionally intense high school years, and it led only to pain.
I will never again live the kind of drink-all-night, dance-all-night, get-in-a-fight, life that I did in my early twenties, where I raged and laughed and loved and nothing had permanent consequences and I could stay up all night without being tired the next morning. And that's fine. It was good, but that time is done and I'm happy now in my next stage of life. I see people my age trying to recreate that stuff, and it tears them up and makes them sad.
posted by corb at 4:33 PM on December 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
I think it's easy to be crushed by time if you try to hang onto it. If you accept that new and different things are coming, it's a lot easier.
For example: Things will never, ever, seem to matter to me as intensely as they did when I was a teenager and was just experiencing hormones and emotions and relationships for the first time. I will never, ever, live functioning on that much adrenaline ever again. That was a good time, and I don't regret it, but I let it go when it was time to move onto my twenties, and I was glad I did. Some people in their twenties tried to recreate their emotionally intense high school years, and it led only to pain.
I will never again live the kind of drink-all-night, dance-all-night, get-in-a-fight, life that I did in my early twenties, where I raged and laughed and loved and nothing had permanent consequences and I could stay up all night without being tired the next morning. And that's fine. It was good, but that time is done and I'm happy now in my next stage of life. I see people my age trying to recreate that stuff, and it tears them up and makes them sad.
posted by corb at 4:33 PM on December 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
Your comment clarified your question a lot. If you are surrounded by people who find that something in their lives "ended" at some point, you do have a challenge, because in my experience, those friends and acquaintances I have who "grew old" early in life are those who have a very fixed mindset and who early on began proclaiming how things are: at 25, you get married and then you are locked up in your suburban house with your spouse, children and random neighbors. At 35, you are tired of sex with that person you married at 25, because you always do the same thing and wear the same pajamas. At 45, you are old, and can only look forward to the end, because you cannot imagine how anything can happen from that point on. In my circle of friends, those people typically had parents and other relatives who had taught them this experience as knowledge. Adults who saw their graduation ball as the pinnacle of their lives, and everything after that as a downfall.
According to this article, middle age really is particularly tough, and for some, that might lead to depressive statements. But the same article also states that after middle age, it only gets better!
To be honest, my 30's were really fun and good on all measures, and my 40's were really tough (in part because of bad choices during my 30's). But since I have always had great old people as role models, I was always convinced I would get through the hardships of struggling with relationships, career, small children, aging parents etc. And I will! Here at 51, things are brightening up all over and I can clearly see the end of the tunnel. I feel this is the beginning of a new great age in life, just like childhood was a special time, and going to university was it's own epoch, as well as those mind-blowing 30's.
My grandfather was a hero of WW2, and at the end of the war, some (probably envious) old general taunted him by saying what a shame that he was such a great man already at 25, from now it could only go downwards. From then on, Granddad set out to prove him wrong, and he did, as many others of the great generation did.
posted by mumimor at 4:47 PM on December 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
According to this article, middle age really is particularly tough, and for some, that might lead to depressive statements. But the same article also states that after middle age, it only gets better!
To be honest, my 30's were really fun and good on all measures, and my 40's were really tough (in part because of bad choices during my 30's). But since I have always had great old people as role models, I was always convinced I would get through the hardships of struggling with relationships, career, small children, aging parents etc. And I will! Here at 51, things are brightening up all over and I can clearly see the end of the tunnel. I feel this is the beginning of a new great age in life, just like childhood was a special time, and going to university was it's own epoch, as well as those mind-blowing 30's.
My grandfather was a hero of WW2, and at the end of the war, some (probably envious) old general taunted him by saying what a shame that he was such a great man already at 25, from now it could only go downwards. From then on, Granddad set out to prove him wrong, and he did, as many others of the great generation did.
posted by mumimor at 4:47 PM on December 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
Have I just been around unusually downbeat people? I just feel like I've seen most everyone in my family be progressively crushed by time
In supportive families, there's often an environment there where it's safe to bitch & moan, to complain, to worry out loud, to wail and gnash your teeth. Then, with the support of your loved ones, you take a deep breath and go out and face the world stronger and more optimistic.
It could also be that your family are a bunch of debbie downers though.
posted by headnsouth at 4:57 PM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
In supportive families, there's often an environment there where it's safe to bitch & moan, to complain, to worry out loud, to wail and gnash your teeth. Then, with the support of your loved ones, you take a deep breath and go out and face the world stronger and more optimistic.
It could also be that your family are a bunch of debbie downers though.
posted by headnsouth at 4:57 PM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
As a recent 30 year old, it feels like the part of my brain that comes up with all the churning, very important feeling and desperate, dramatic, but I'll DiE if I dont- and But if it was ReALLY Love- and everyone hates me the world is awful and it's my fault- teen/younf adult drama engine has finally shut the fuck up. I credit spending the time on my issues, medication, and a more developed prefrontal cortex.
posted by The Whelk at 5:46 PM on December 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:46 PM on December 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
Have I just been around unusually downbeat people?
Maybe been around people projecting insecurities about aging on to you?
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:05 PM on December 30, 2014
Maybe been around people projecting insecurities about aging on to you?
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:05 PM on December 30, 2014
If you want a sex life, keep having sex. Want to be strong enough to do the things you can enjoy? Keep doing them and exercise. Want to be socially committed? Get out and do things, dammit.
I just feel like I've seen most everyone in my family be progressively crushed by time rather than blossoming into it.
I live with a damn Debbie downer, and it's making me think about divorce. He brings me down constantly.
He moaned he was loosing strength at 30. Did he ever bother to exercise? Hell no. He's 65 now. It didn't get better by ignoring it. He doesn't have any friends, leaches off my girlfriends when we're out together with them, and I can't get a word in edgewise. Is constantly angry, whether it's at traffic, government, the grand-kids, or the perversity of the inanimate. Doesn't want to be intimate, in any form. Moans he has no time for anything, but won't take/make time--and he's retired now! He's jealous I go out riding on my horse, but won't ride around the local trails we don't need to trailer to, and makes it impossible to get out to trailer somewhere--too busy, bad weather, no gas, no time or he knows I've already made plans. He sets up to fail in so many times by making it 'impossible' to do something, whether it's riding, camping, hiking, or just going out. He doesn't like to go dancing. Walking locally or in parks is boring. Everything is just to damn hard. It always cost too much money.
I'm pretty sure it's a family thing--I've hated being around his dad forever. He's had so many 'miracles' by rallying from multiple heart surgeries, colon surgery, diabetes, and he won't bother to do anything but sit in front of the television eating things he shouldn't and moaning about how hard life is and how he just wants to die. Which of course, garners him attention from his wife and family. Except me. I told him go ahead and die already if he wasn't going to try. I'm not the favorite daughter in law, but then, I never was. *shrugs*
I don't know what the future will bring. I'm willing to give him a chance--he's going through the adjustment of retirement, and there are other issues that could be causing a lot of depression and stress. But 40 years I've given to the guy, and I don't want the next 20 to just keep getting bleaker.
I'm 60. Sure, there's aches, pains, and I've fought bipolar and depression my whole life. But dammit, there's so much I want to do, see, and be. It ain't gonna over till it's over.
Unless I go ga-ga. And I've already instructed the kids to take me out to the ice floe.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:09 PM on December 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
I just feel like I've seen most everyone in my family be progressively crushed by time rather than blossoming into it.
I live with a damn Debbie downer, and it's making me think about divorce. He brings me down constantly.
He moaned he was loosing strength at 30. Did he ever bother to exercise? Hell no. He's 65 now. It didn't get better by ignoring it. He doesn't have any friends, leaches off my girlfriends when we're out together with them, and I can't get a word in edgewise. Is constantly angry, whether it's at traffic, government, the grand-kids, or the perversity of the inanimate. Doesn't want to be intimate, in any form. Moans he has no time for anything, but won't take/make time--and he's retired now! He's jealous I go out riding on my horse, but won't ride around the local trails we don't need to trailer to, and makes it impossible to get out to trailer somewhere--too busy, bad weather, no gas, no time or he knows I've already made plans. He sets up to fail in so many times by making it 'impossible' to do something, whether it's riding, camping, hiking, or just going out. He doesn't like to go dancing. Walking locally or in parks is boring. Everything is just to damn hard. It always cost too much money.
I'm pretty sure it's a family thing--I've hated being around his dad forever. He's had so many 'miracles' by rallying from multiple heart surgeries, colon surgery, diabetes, and he won't bother to do anything but sit in front of the television eating things he shouldn't and moaning about how hard life is and how he just wants to die. Which of course, garners him attention from his wife and family. Except me. I told him go ahead and die already if he wasn't going to try. I'm not the favorite daughter in law, but then, I never was. *shrugs*
I don't know what the future will bring. I'm willing to give him a chance--he's going through the adjustment of retirement, and there are other issues that could be causing a lot of depression and stress. But 40 years I've given to the guy, and I don't want the next 20 to just keep getting bleaker.
I'm 60. Sure, there's aches, pains, and I've fought bipolar and depression my whole life. But dammit, there's so much I want to do, see, and be. It ain't gonna over till it's over.
Unless I go ga-ga. And I've already instructed the kids to take me out to the ice floe.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:09 PM on December 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
Well, for what it's worth, I'm 33 and I just said outloud to my husband the other day after some pretty hot sexy times (and then later to my girlfriends) that it must be God's gift to women that sex just gets better and better as we (ladies) get older. I mean, it was pretty god in my 20's, but now I actually know what the hell I'm doing and what I want (and not afraid to ask for it/try it!) So I definitely don't plan on it dropping off by the time I'm 35!!!
posted by Rocket26 at 6:57 PM on December 30, 2014
posted by Rocket26 at 6:57 PM on December 30, 2014
I'm the downer - mid 40s and life has never been harder. But at least I don't give a crap about how I look any more or how long I live, so there's that.
posted by hockeyfan at 8:59 PM on December 30, 2014
posted by hockeyfan at 8:59 PM on December 30, 2014
I'm 43. I joke around a lot with younger people about being elderly and decrepit. I don't mean it; I feel and am fantastic. Sex is great. Friendships are great. Maybe I shouldn't joke like that.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 9:39 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 9:39 PM on December 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think the point "where life is over for most people" is the point where that person draws a line in the sand and refuses to cross it. Some people spend so much time checking the time they forget to just get busy and live in the time they're in.
There are certain things you can expect in a lifetime - cycles, I guess would be one word for them. Childhood, obviously; teen socialization and angst, then school/college ends and you're alone and wondering where the magic went and why being an adult is no fun after all. Relationships/a job or career/financial ups and downs/changes - all of it just progresses along through the 30s and 40s. There are losses and grieving but there are also deeply loving and spiritual experiences through those mid-years, the 50s included. Little by little different body parts begin to weaken and fail and by the time you're in your 60s you have one or more disorders or conditions that are common enough to have a name. Then you're a grandparent or a retiree or both and things keep on changing. You may downsize or travel or maybe you'll be raising grandkids for a few years. And the body keeps wobbling along and now you have monthly prescriptions to cover and other minor miseries. But all the way through you'll have had losses and frustrations and worries and sadness and illness - and that's in a normal life. Very possibly you'll have experienced more severe problems, terrible trials and despair, but that's not a given and even if you have, the odds are good that you'll learn to deal with it and move on.
Okay - all that's assuming you live to get old in the first place, which you probably will, but outside of the possibility of getting hit by lightning or something, the secret is to just keep crossing the line. Adapt. Make it a life habit to just deal with it, whatever it is. Shake off the temptation to set unrealistic expectations for yourself and for the world - this isn't Heaven and it isn't ever going to even come close. Some of your problems you will have created for yourself, but others NO! You're not always responsible for whatever crisis you're dealing with - sometimes the world just falls on your head. So you adapt. You use whatever resources you have at hand and you just go out there and deal with it all. And then you sit back and recognize that you just did it! You dealt with it when you didn't think you could! Wow! Not bad for an old lady/geezer - or whatever label you're cast with - whatever label that may be. Every time you break the mold and overcome the things that are supposed to knock you down, you've adapted and flourished and you can roll for an extra turn. Whining about what you don't have or what you used to have that would make it so much easier now is pointless - you'll just feel worse than ever. But if you use the feeble resources you have, whether they're tangible or intangible, and you build with them, you're doing just fine. Then you can find joy in life, which means life hasn't ended for you - you've crossed the line in the sand and you can keep on going. And while you're at it, gather flowers for your bouquet, but ditch the weeds, they'll only make you itch.
There really isn't any point at which life is over for most people. It's over either when lightning comes or when you decide to stop living. That's all.
I just read an obituary for a lady I worked with years ago at a nursing home in Colorado. She was the Activities Director. She had white hair even then and seemed so old to me, but she could always come up with something for the old folks to do and they loved her. She was 104. Theodosia Duckett was her name - RIP, Mrs. Duckett. She was one lady who just kept on going.
posted by aryma at 12:09 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
There are certain things you can expect in a lifetime - cycles, I guess would be one word for them. Childhood, obviously; teen socialization and angst, then school/college ends and you're alone and wondering where the magic went and why being an adult is no fun after all. Relationships/a job or career/financial ups and downs/changes - all of it just progresses along through the 30s and 40s. There are losses and grieving but there are also deeply loving and spiritual experiences through those mid-years, the 50s included. Little by little different body parts begin to weaken and fail and by the time you're in your 60s you have one or more disorders or conditions that are common enough to have a name. Then you're a grandparent or a retiree or both and things keep on changing. You may downsize or travel or maybe you'll be raising grandkids for a few years. And the body keeps wobbling along and now you have monthly prescriptions to cover and other minor miseries. But all the way through you'll have had losses and frustrations and worries and sadness and illness - and that's in a normal life. Very possibly you'll have experienced more severe problems, terrible trials and despair, but that's not a given and even if you have, the odds are good that you'll learn to deal with it and move on.
Okay - all that's assuming you live to get old in the first place, which you probably will, but outside of the possibility of getting hit by lightning or something, the secret is to just keep crossing the line. Adapt. Make it a life habit to just deal with it, whatever it is. Shake off the temptation to set unrealistic expectations for yourself and for the world - this isn't Heaven and it isn't ever going to even come close. Some of your problems you will have created for yourself, but others NO! You're not always responsible for whatever crisis you're dealing with - sometimes the world just falls on your head. So you adapt. You use whatever resources you have at hand and you just go out there and deal with it all. And then you sit back and recognize that you just did it! You dealt with it when you didn't think you could! Wow! Not bad for an old lady/geezer - or whatever label you're cast with - whatever label that may be. Every time you break the mold and overcome the things that are supposed to knock you down, you've adapted and flourished and you can roll for an extra turn. Whining about what you don't have or what you used to have that would make it so much easier now is pointless - you'll just feel worse than ever. But if you use the feeble resources you have, whether they're tangible or intangible, and you build with them, you're doing just fine. Then you can find joy in life, which means life hasn't ended for you - you've crossed the line in the sand and you can keep on going. And while you're at it, gather flowers for your bouquet, but ditch the weeds, they'll only make you itch.
There really isn't any point at which life is over for most people. It's over either when lightning comes or when you decide to stop living. That's all.
I just read an obituary for a lady I worked with years ago at a nursing home in Colorado. She was the Activities Director. She had white hair even then and seemed so old to me, but she could always come up with something for the old folks to do and they loved her. She was 104. Theodosia Duckett was her name - RIP, Mrs. Duckett. She was one lady who just kept on going.
posted by aryma at 12:09 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'll be 50 this year and I'd offer four things (rules I've tried to follow since I was young in an effort to grow old with some modicum of grace) to try and keep it pithy:
1) Choices and decisions have consequences
2) but it very rarely matters, to future you, which life choice you actually went with;
3) nonetheless, it is vitally important to keep making those choices and decisions. If someone stops doing that, then in at least one important sense, they have called it 'over'.
4) Choose the things that future you will regret the least.
There's health and death and Other People and a million things in life we have little or no control over, of course.
But I reckon, to restate an old cliche, navigation is more important than destination.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:35 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
1) Choices and decisions have consequences
2) but it very rarely matters, to future you, which life choice you actually went with;
3) nonetheless, it is vitally important to keep making those choices and decisions. If someone stops doing that, then in at least one important sense, they have called it 'over'.
4) Choose the things that future you will regret the least.
There's health and death and Other People and a million things in life we have little or no control over, of course.
But I reckon, to restate an old cliche, navigation is more important than destination.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:35 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'll be 57 in a couple of months.
I'd have to say turning 50 was when I consciously thought of my life as being downhill from here on. At least in terms of statistical longevity, that's true.
50 is also, roughly, the age where potential employers will, more often than not, not even give you a second look. You usefulness/utility/desirability has peaked, unless you are lucky enough to either 1. Be a complete savant in your field, or 2. Have worked your way into a position of high power/responsibility that is not easily replaced. Despite what you may hear in the media about employers supposedly rushing to hire or keep elders, my experience on the street is that this is baloney. That whole age=experience thing doesn't seem to hold much water in my neck of the woods.
Physically, 50 also seems to be the point where you start to wake up with more aches and pains. Your body is definitely not the one you had even ten years ago. If you've been sitting at a keyboard for most of your career, this seems to be the general age when your lower back starts to pay you back for that.
Depending on when they had you, your 50's also seem to be the time when a lot of people start having to deal with their own parents' infirmities and declining health. And, you're now in a place where, unlike when you were in your 20's or 30's, it's very easy to look at them and see yourself in 20 or 30 years. And this will scare the living shit out of you.
So...50. That's when it's officially all downhill from here.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:41 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'd have to say turning 50 was when I consciously thought of my life as being downhill from here on. At least in terms of statistical longevity, that's true.
50 is also, roughly, the age where potential employers will, more often than not, not even give you a second look. You usefulness/utility/desirability has peaked, unless you are lucky enough to either 1. Be a complete savant in your field, or 2. Have worked your way into a position of high power/responsibility that is not easily replaced. Despite what you may hear in the media about employers supposedly rushing to hire or keep elders, my experience on the street is that this is baloney. That whole age=experience thing doesn't seem to hold much water in my neck of the woods.
Physically, 50 also seems to be the point where you start to wake up with more aches and pains. Your body is definitely not the one you had even ten years ago. If you've been sitting at a keyboard for most of your career, this seems to be the general age when your lower back starts to pay you back for that.
Depending on when they had you, your 50's also seem to be the time when a lot of people start having to deal with their own parents' infirmities and declining health. And, you're now in a place where, unlike when you were in your 20's or 30's, it's very easy to look at them and see yourself in 20 or 30 years. And this will scare the living shit out of you.
So...50. That's when it's officially all downhill from here.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:41 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
So...50. That's when it's officially all downhill from here.
FWIW my mother feels her 50s, which are just now ending, were the best decade of her life, far and away. Physical health is a huge component of that, and she made that component happen through constant, diligent exercise and diet (plus luck). But she also has come into her own professionally after decades of just-a-job jobs, has embraced the inevitable changes in her body rather than simply resigning herself to them, and I dunno. Maybe it's all downhill from there? But downhill isn't the same as over, and she still seems to be looking forward to the future. She is excited to branch out in her side business, excited to see what her kids get up to, excited to watch the world become whatever it's becoming.
Now if you asked her at 41, she'd have told you a different story completely. When our lives are very, very hard, we tend to extrapolate that forward. She was recovering from a grave illness and working for a failing company and feeling old and useless, divorced and broke and staring down the barrel of putting 3 kids through college and watching her parents deteriorate in alarming ways. She would have said it was all downhill from there, forever.
I feel like that's the thing about hills...there's usually more than one of em in a row.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:38 AM on December 31, 2014 [9 favorites]
FWIW my mother feels her 50s, which are just now ending, were the best decade of her life, far and away. Physical health is a huge component of that, and she made that component happen through constant, diligent exercise and diet (plus luck). But she also has come into her own professionally after decades of just-a-job jobs, has embraced the inevitable changes in her body rather than simply resigning herself to them, and I dunno. Maybe it's all downhill from there? But downhill isn't the same as over, and she still seems to be looking forward to the future. She is excited to branch out in her side business, excited to see what her kids get up to, excited to watch the world become whatever it's becoming.
Now if you asked her at 41, she'd have told you a different story completely. When our lives are very, very hard, we tend to extrapolate that forward. She was recovering from a grave illness and working for a failing company and feeling old and useless, divorced and broke and staring down the barrel of putting 3 kids through college and watching her parents deteriorate in alarming ways. She would have said it was all downhill from there, forever.
I feel like that's the thing about hills...there's usually more than one of em in a row.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:38 AM on December 31, 2014 [9 favorites]
+a milli to everyone who says this is very culture dependent-- presuming you're American for a moment, we have a very youth-oriented culture. The lists of "20 under 20" and "30 under 30" yadda yadda are very misleading-- people who change the world at a young age are notable only because they are *outliers*. It is unusual to make any notable impact on the world at such a younger age, but because we are a culture that glorifies youth, we often read these articles as "holy shit look at what that [age younger than me] year old did! I am older than [age] and haven't done anything nearly as cool. My life is a waste!"
That attitude is ridiculous and a waste of your brain CPUs.
I'm 35, almost 36. This is the first year of my life where I had a "oh, that is an age that sounds old!" moment on my birthday. Then I got over it. It helps to have friends of diverse ages and to go places and do things where age is not only not a defining factor, but a helpful factor. I surf and rock climb, two activities where experience and time spent count a lot. Sure, at 20 you have the bounce-back of youth on your side, but you know why Kelly Slater is one of the world's best surfers? Because dude is 40 and has 35 years of experience on his side, which is literally impossible to have when you have only been on the planet 20 years total. He's an outlier in being a competitive, world-class athlete, but you see people of all ages out in the water everywhere you go. And I might add, I do a fair amount of my surfing in the Basque Country-- if you go out dancing at night there you will be schooled by 70 year old Basque grandmas getting down to Pitbull, because their culture doesn't shelve elderly people like they have no worth.
You don't have to totally shed your downer friends, but you can counteract the Eeyore vibes by broadening your perspective. If activities aren't for you, check out biographies of people who only got to their main contribution later in life. Julia Child was almost 50 when she published her first book and she was 51 when her show aired. Marion Irvine started running at age 47 and qualified for the freakin' Olympics at 54. Alan Rickman didn't get a decent movie role until he was 42. There are amazing stories out there, and aside from when your biology decides to give out on you, it's up to you when it's "over".
posted by shaka_lulu at 11:00 AM on December 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
That attitude is ridiculous and a waste of your brain CPUs.
I'm 35, almost 36. This is the first year of my life where I had a "oh, that is an age that sounds old!" moment on my birthday. Then I got over it. It helps to have friends of diverse ages and to go places and do things where age is not only not a defining factor, but a helpful factor. I surf and rock climb, two activities where experience and time spent count a lot. Sure, at 20 you have the bounce-back of youth on your side, but you know why Kelly Slater is one of the world's best surfers? Because dude is 40 and has 35 years of experience on his side, which is literally impossible to have when you have only been on the planet 20 years total. He's an outlier in being a competitive, world-class athlete, but you see people of all ages out in the water everywhere you go. And I might add, I do a fair amount of my surfing in the Basque Country-- if you go out dancing at night there you will be schooled by 70 year old Basque grandmas getting down to Pitbull, because their culture doesn't shelve elderly people like they have no worth.
You don't have to totally shed your downer friends, but you can counteract the Eeyore vibes by broadening your perspective. If activities aren't for you, check out biographies of people who only got to their main contribution later in life. Julia Child was almost 50 when she published her first book and she was 51 when her show aired. Marion Irvine started running at age 47 and qualified for the freakin' Olympics at 54. Alan Rickman didn't get a decent movie role until he was 42. There are amazing stories out there, and aside from when your biology decides to give out on you, it's up to you when it's "over".
posted by shaka_lulu at 11:00 AM on December 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
Erm, I'm amazed I am the first one to say this, but, yes, at 41 I am looking at the probable end of my fertility. This doesn't mean life is over, of course, but it does mean "an essential aspect of life" is probably, over. I have no children, have had 3 miscarriages and currently feel like I need to work on accepting my childless state.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 10:08 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by mysterious_stranger at 10:08 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have joyfully reinvented several times. Next time I plan to be a fat grandma who raises foster kids.
posted by OhSusannah at 2:55 PM on January 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by OhSusannah at 2:55 PM on January 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
This may sound flippant, but if you have very specific life goals or achievements you're hoping to accomplish, knock those out early, eh? Don't save the bucket list part of life for what you believe will be the middle or the end, because that's not up to you. You don't get to know when those years of your particular life are going to happen.
Only two things "end" in life: the reproductive cycle and maintaining your peak mental/physical performance (fact, your tendons will wear out eventually; fact, most people lose eyesight, hearing and mobility to varying degrees as they age; fact, my marathon-loving father at 65 runs slower than he did at 55, and he's been sober and a non-smoker for 25 years).
Don't break up with yourself mentally or intellectually before your body starts to betray you with easier bruises, random back soreness and a few extra pounds. That means don't doom-and-gloom yourself all the time, "settle" in relationships or take a shit job you hate if you can help it. Most decisions can be undone; second careers can be started, marriages end, etc.
Challenging yourself is the best way to prove your friends' mindset of inevitability is inaccurate (or defining your own unique timeline, at least).
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:22 PM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Only two things "end" in life: the reproductive cycle and maintaining your peak mental/physical performance (fact, your tendons will wear out eventually; fact, most people lose eyesight, hearing and mobility to varying degrees as they age; fact, my marathon-loving father at 65 runs slower than he did at 55, and he's been sober and a non-smoker for 25 years).
Don't break up with yourself mentally or intellectually before your body starts to betray you with easier bruises, random back soreness and a few extra pounds. That means don't doom-and-gloom yourself all the time, "settle" in relationships or take a shit job you hate if you can help it. Most decisions can be undone; second careers can be started, marriages end, etc.
Challenging yourself is the best way to prove your friends' mindset of inevitability is inaccurate (or defining your own unique timeline, at least).
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:22 PM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by empath at 11:07 AM on December 30, 2014 [54 favorites]