Reasons that crazy is problematic.
December 10, 2014 11:15 AM   Subscribe

I said something that offended people. I will not say it again, but would like to know why it's so offensive.

I'm a currently in the hospital where my father is undergoing surgery. The waiting room that I'm in seemed to smell a bit strange (to me). When one of the nurses asked me how I was doing, I mentioned that "I may be crazy, but this room smells a little strange." The nurse was very upset that I said "crazy," and scolded me for it. The nurse then sent in a second nurse to scold me a second time about it, but neither explained why it was so offensive. I do realize that they are very busy, so I just apologized and blanket agreed with everything that they said, and figured that I would wait until they left to ask the hive mind about it.

Just to be perfectly clear, I am extremely paranoid about ever saying anything problematic. So I will vanquish this from my vocabulary immediately.
posted by Shouraku to Human Relations (38 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: Some people have a particular sensitivity to the word 'crazy' because of the negative connotation towards people with mental illness. So if you use the word crazy in a negative way, it's seen as using mental illness as an insult/derogatory term, when in fact mental illness is a disease that people don't choose to have. I personally think it's overkill to be sensitive about every time that the word is used (especially in a very casual way as you did, where it clearly had nothing to do with mental illness and where you just meant that you might be imagining things), but then again, it's not personal for me.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 11:19 AM on December 10, 2014 [25 favorites]


I think they are both off their rocker, although I'm sure this has something to do with not saying "crazy" in a clinical setting.
posted by AndrewInDC at 11:19 AM on December 10, 2014 [20 favorites]


"Crazy" is language potentially prejudicial to people with mental health problems.
posted by Thing at 11:20 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


"Crazy" is a word that many people with mental illness find offensive. It's been a word that I have been working on getting out of my vocabulary.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:23 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I think they overreacted and were rude to you. But yeah, you compared your possibly confused state of mind with a serious mental condition. It's similar to calling yourself "retarded" when you do something stupid.

I'm having a hard time purging this one from my vocabulary. Possible replacements for this situation:

* "Am I wrong, or does it smell weird in here?"
* "Is it just me, or..."
* "Is my smeller busted, or..."

Thanks for being conscientious about your language!
posted by chaiminda at 11:25 AM on December 10, 2014 [30 favorites]


There may have been someone with mental health problems causing the smell.

But yeah crazy can be seen as a derogatory term towards those with mental illness as crazy implies a loss of sense of reality. Many people with mental illness are smart capable people who are acutely aware of the challenges and discrimination they face.

But in the context you said it I wouldn't have even noticed.
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:26 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


I would imagine that this particular nurse worked in a psych unit or has a very affected family member. Besides trying to refrain from its use in clinical settings, I wouldn't worry too much about expunging it from your vocabulary.
posted by Trifling at 11:28 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Yeah some people take it to be offensive to people who deal with mental illness. Not everyone does - not even everyone with mental illness finds it offensive (though some do). I do think they overreacted and I definitely think that sending in a second nurse to scold you was not in any way a reasonable reaction.

I get the sense that the harshness of their reaction was likely either situational or experiential on their part, and not due to some obvious horrific transgression you should have obviously known better than to commit. For that reason, I'd say to chalk it up to experience, try to avoid using the word again, and don't beat yourself up over this.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 11:28 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Best answer: Yes, I think they were both particularly sensitive to it as medical workers in a clinical setting; "crazy" is derogatory and dismissive towards mental health problems.

The big problem with "crazy" is that it has multiple meanings in English (foolish: "That's a crazy idea"; enthusiastic: "I'm crazy about candy!"; etc.) as well as a casual, vernacular use to mean "off-kilter" as opposed to "actually insane," which is how you used it (the "off-kilter" way).

I think outside health care and mental health settings people mostly don't mind the use of "crazy" too much because its other uses are so much more common than the specific "insane" use (as long as you are not using it in specific derogatory fashion), but I would avoid it in formal settings or among people you don't really know.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:29 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]


I would rather be called crazy than mentally ill. It seems more direct, clear and accurate about your real status as a person with mental illness to be called crazy than for people to pretend that they don't shun, judge and ostracize someone whose behavior is non normative. Maybe if we had real treatment for people with mental illness I would feel differently.
posted by Pembquist at 11:29 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


The word has come be offensive of those with mental illness. Reasonable people can disagree on whether that's good or bad, but make no mistake, some are offended by the term.

But those nurses were flat out wrong to be scolding you and I'd report both to their supervisor.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:30 AM on December 10, 2014 [14 favorites]


Are words and phrases like "nuts," "insane," "bonkers," and "off their rocker" considered equally borderline offensive?
posted by justkevin at 11:33 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


There was a MeTa about this very thing last year, which you can find by site searching for "whackadoodle".
posted by poffin boffin at 11:36 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Are words and phrases like "nuts," "insane," "bonkers," and "off their rocker" considered equally borderline offensive?

Yes, yes they are. Because they are all different ways of saying "crazy".

Like a lot of people, I find it a bit tricky to purge this stuff from my language - after all, when I say "that's crazy! we can't get the report in by 3pm!" I am not thinking of mentally ill people or of people at all..."crazy" is just a metaphor for "foolish and bad". But honesty compels me to admit that if I don't want people to say "that's so gay!" then I should not say "that's crazy!" either.

In general, language that uses really-existing people as a metaphor is worth examining, especially language about marginalized groups.
posted by Frowner at 11:37 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: To clarify: I knew about the "wackadoodle thread," but I didn't instantly connect it with "crazy" because crazy is used in more than one way.
posted by Shouraku at 11:43 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


Crazy is often used against women to patronize and belittle.
posted by brujita at 11:50 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Some people find it important to campaign against tone-deafness in the use of metaphorical language, like saying "crazy" (and not meaning truly mentally ill), "blind" (when one can't find a thing one's looking for) or "deaf" (when one hasn't listened) especially when it suggests a lazy way of thinking.
Perhaps the latter was more a trigger here than the former. Perhaps the nurse thought "In what world does one need to be quote-unquote crazy to find that a funny smell smells funny?"

[Then again, I can see a poorly-judged power display at work here too that would probably have made me quite mad. I can't really see why anyone would consider taking the effort to kindergardenize some other unknown grown-ass person's choice of words, unless it affects them personally.]
posted by Namlit at 11:51 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


I think it is used in a pejorative way about people suffering from mental illnesses, and its effect is to establish the superiority of the speaker over the person they call “crazy”. It also implies the person it applies to is dismissible, unworthy of consideration, that their personhood is badly compromised or non-existent, and that they ought to be disregarded by other, sane people.

It is also a word that is frequently used to refer to anyone who annoyed the speaker (the implication being that the “crazy” person can only have done such a thing because they are soft in the head or something), as in “My ex is a crazy bitch”.

Though I think the two nurses are out of line to have a go at you whilst you are waiting for your sick dad, I myself am also not … crazy about anyone using it to reduce the strength of their own words (as you did, and I do frequently using “crazy” or other expressions, basically as many people do) not so much because it calls up the image of a dismissible person with a mental illness, but because it kind of says “Feel free to ignore me/ crap all over me, but I think so-and-so”. It’s like we don’t feel we have a right to even think something without being apologetic about it (maybe this is my own experience, but I hear this kind of self-put down more from women than men). Contrast it with “Excuse me, do you also blabla?” (polite, acknowledges that you are asking for a favour, sort of, but without being too self-abasing) or “I don’t know if I’m right, but it seems that blabla” (still polite, more diffident, but again, you are not implicitly insulting yourself).

On preview:

PS I feel quite upset by uses of crazy to refer to a person (she is crazy, he is crazy, I am crazy etc), but I am ambivalent about expressions such as Frowner's "that's crazy!", or "I am crazy about xyz" etc.

PPS Because it is used so often, and frequently divorced of its immediate connection to mental illness, I only realized just how hurtful "crazy" can be via "fruitcake", used by a friend (ex-friend) about a mutual acquaintance who was kind of odd and had been diagnosed with depression. It's like he deleted her out of existence with one word, and we were supposed to be superior together and cackle about her. Not cool.
posted by miorita at 11:52 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Best answer: I am a person who has had some pretty severe mental health problems. I find the word offensive. It's stigmatising and unnecessary.

If you're in a hospital, you are perhaps more likely to have mentally ill people around, and I think it's good that the nurses called you out on your offensive language. Waiting for an ill relative doesn't give someone a free pass on using offensive language.
posted by Solomon at 11:55 AM on December 10, 2014 [8 favorites]


In my experience, some medical professionals who do not diagnose will flip out if they perceive that they are being asked to make a diagnosis. Not just a calm, "I'm not qualified to make that diagnosis," but a panicky, "oh-my-god I'm going to get sued and fired," and it comes out as an angry, how dare you even ask me that kind of attitude.

So if you phrased it as "am I crazy, or..." and the first nurse took it to mean "could you please diagnose whether or not I have a mental illness?" and reported your comment that way to the second nurse, that could add another dimension of why they might overreact.

This is just a possible explanation, not an excuse for them treating you that way.
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 12:00 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


You used the word "crazy" in a common way, and you used it about yourself. Is that really exactly what you said? Did they really react that strongly? If so, those nurses are the crazy ones. A gentle comment that it's not a great idea to use the word "crazy" like that in a hospital where people seek treatment for mental illness would've sufficed. No need to flip out over it. It wasn't a big deal.
posted by AppleTurnover at 12:07 PM on December 10, 2014 [13 favorites]


Response by poster: Is that really exactly what you said?

Yes, this is exactly what I said. This incident happened within the last half hour, so I remember very clearly.

They did react strongly, but were not mean, nor did they raise their voice or anything.
posted by Shouraku at 12:12 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


I'd agree with Brandon Blatcher. Personally, if this happened to me as you say it happened to you, if it weren't too much trouble I'd find contact info for the nurses' supervisor and lodge a brief (and calm) complaint.

That was way out of line for them to react in that way. You're in to visit someone important to you who is having surgery, you're in a stressful situation, and you said something that would be considered innocuous by most people. You obviously weren't trying to offend anyone.

They have no social or workplace skills if they think that's an appropriate time or place to scold you repeatedly, even if they weren't raising their voices or haranguing you.
posted by Old Man McKay at 12:21 PM on December 10, 2014 [16 favorites]


Seems like you handled that just fine and sorry you were scolded, that sounds like it was inappropriate given the context that you are in a hospital for a stressful reason. If it were me I think I would have done the same thing which is say sorry and move on but also would probably drop a friendly note to their supervisor about it since tag-team scolding for any reason is not a professional response to the situation you described.

Barely related: my sister has epilepsy and one of the really weird manifestations of it before she was on medication, was that she would smell things that aren't there. No idea if this figures in to the odd encounter you had but worth noting in case it was a thing you didn't know or might have affected the response you got from the first nurse.
posted by jessamyn at 12:28 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


I can see why the nurses would be sensitive to that term, but they should also be sensitive to patients and their families. Not the best setting for PC language education!
posted by radioamy at 12:46 PM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]


I gotta say, this is an unusual reaction. I get that the word crazy is offensive for some people, but it is also still in wide-use, including in hospitals (I work in one). Is it possible they thought you were insulting someone's smell nearby?
posted by latkes at 12:54 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


It was not professional or appropriate of the nurses to scold you for your use of the word.

You were not calling someone "crazy" -- that is, you were not engaging in aggressive or antisocial behavior that implied a threat to the safety of others. You were using a sadly common turn of phrase. It is bizarre and beyond professional that two nurses went out of their way to take you to task for it while you were at the hospital waiting for your loved one to make it through surgery.

I would lodge a complaint. The insensitivity, in this case, is theirs, and it needs to be addressed before they harass another patient.
posted by mylittlepoppet at 1:19 PM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]


Response by poster: Is it possible they thought you were insulting someone's smell nearby?

I was alone in the room (besides the nurse).
posted by Shouraku at 1:26 PM on December 10, 2014


That's really interesting because it's backwards in a way, at least to me.

I thought crazy meant genuinely just "weird, off the rocker", and that actual mentually ill people are NOT crazy. They're ill. Since I never referred to someone with mental health problems as crazy (well, maybe once I referred to a girl who threw a microphone at me as deranged - maybe she did have a condition), it wouldn't even occur to me that someone thought I meant crazy as a derogatory term for mental health patients.

Now my head hurts.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 1:42 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Oh hey, I can cover this from two directions, being both diagnosed with a mental illness and having a wife who's an RN! Yes, "crazy" can be some as a pejorative for the mentally ill, but it's certainly not up there anywhere near "retarded", let alone something to be avoided like the N-word, which is how it sounds as though these nurses reacted. I, myself, don't find "crazy" to be at all derogatory in the ways it's commonly used, even if it's tangentally related to mental illness. I'll even self-apply it at times with acquaintances who are aware of my condition to explain, say, erratic behavior during a particularly strong manic break. "Sorry, man, just feeling a little crazy today." (Of course, you may be getting into "only black people can use the N-word" territory there, but, meh...) That's not to say we shouldn't strive to be sympathetic with our everyday speech, I just don't think it's nearly as big a deal as it was made out to be.

As far as the nurses' behavior, as above I would imagine it was due to the clinical setting, one in which perhaps people could be expected to be a little more circumspect with their language. However, their behavior, especially if you were there as family of a patient, was definitely unprofessional. It would be fine for a nurse to ask you politely not to use language like that in a sensitive situation, but to go get a colleague to harangue you after having already done it was definitely excessive. You'd have every right to complain to their supervisor about it if you felt sufficiently aggrieved.

So basically: yes, it's a word that some can find offensive. No, using it as you did isn't that huge a deal. Yes, the nurses overreacted and acted unprofessionally themselves. How you choose to alter your own behavior is up to you, but it at least speaks well of you that you're concerned about it. You're not crazy there. ;)
posted by jammer at 1:49 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


I'm going to go with wild overreaction. "Crazy" has a lot of meanings, and context matters, in my opinion. FWIW, I have both mental health professionals and mental health issues in my circles.
posted by cnc at 1:55 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Best answer: Oh, and just as a secondary item since we're on the topic, and it's related: I actually find use of words like "bipolar" when there's no actual diagnosis to be more troublesome than "crazy". Someone saying "I'm feeling a bit crazy today" if they're especially moody doesn't bother me at all; if someone says, "I'm feeling bipolar today, haha" that does bug me. In this case, you're not casually using a word which has multiple accepted meanings, you're using a word that's a specific term for an actual, serious, chronic illness and using it to explain your own transient behavior. I never "feel bipolar today". I'm bipolar all the time, regardless of how I feel, it's a near daily struggle in my life, and I will in all likelihood suffer from it -- and, if I'm fortunate enough to keep being able to afford it, be on maintenance medication for it -- for as long as I'm alive.

Coopting that to explain your own behavior on any given day trivializes that and is insulting to those who suffer from diseases that already do not have the general popular respect they deserve, especially compared to many chronic "physical" illnesses. If there were one mental illness related language tick I wish would go away, it's that one.
posted by jammer at 1:57 PM on December 10, 2014 [12 favorites]


Coincidentally I had a conversation with my colleague from Nigeria about this sort of language very recently. Someone else had jokingly called me a "nutter" and he asked me what the word meant. When I explained that it was a slang expression implying someone was eccentric or "crazy", he was genuinely shocked and said it would be considered a very rude thing to say to someone in Nigeria. So depending on their cultural identity, maybe there was a "manners" aspect to the nurses' response?
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 2:04 PM on December 10, 2014


I agree with those who said that "crazy" can be interpreted as pejorative toward those with mental illnesses, and that those nurses were rude and way out of line. It's good that you are thinking of the impact of your words on others, but feel free to talk to the nursing supervisor; it was rude of those nurses to tag-team and scold you - while you were waiting for your father to get out of surgery, sheesh!

I know that we are taught to soft-pedal our reactions, and it seems that prefacing your observations with "I may be crazy, but..." was meant to be tactful. But you were not in a friend's house, you were in a hospital, and so it would have been perfectly acceptable to say straight out, "Something smells funny in here. What could it be?" You would want to be more discreet and polite if you were, say, at a friend's house or in your boss's office. But in a hospital, it's fine to be frank (but not snippy or grouchy!) - "It smells funny in here!" or "I notice an odd smell - what could it be?" (Then the nurses would have no justification in being offended - they could say "It's the disinfectant" or "I don't smell anything" or "Yeah, something DOES smell funny in here, let me check it out" or whatever.)
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:19 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


I am amazed that not just one, but two nurse two nurses would think it appropriate to take time away from patient care to scold a worried family member of a patient about common word usage. Their supervisor should be alerted to their poor interpersonal skills, bad judgement, and misplaced priorities.
posted by rpfields at 4:03 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]


I can't imagine the nurses ever get any work done if they are constantly on a vigil for politically impolitic language. It's a hospital, for fuck's sake, full of anxious scared patients and family not in their best frame of mind and often sleep deprived. It isn't the G7 conference. Yes, definitely, absolutely, immediately file a complaint. Part of medical care - a BIG part - is nonjudgemental listening. Scolding the family of a patient undermines the patient's sense of safety and well-being. This is wrong.
posted by docpops at 8:39 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]


Fuck them.

What you said was a teensy bit wrong - in the way that my grandma describing Sammy Davis Jr as a "colored" is wrong. She didn't know any better and didn't mean anything offensive by it. I'd be a total dick grandson to berate her for her language; instead, the family would eventually get around to saying things like "They prefer to be called 'black', Grandma." And she'd adjust.

Fuck them for acting like you were malicious or socially unacceptable.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:40 AM on December 11, 2014


I'm wondering if it wasn't about the offensiveness of calling someone else 'crazy', which you didn't do, but... could they have thought you were requesting a psychiatric evaluation?

You used the word 'crazy', about yourself, in a waiting room of a hospital, while complaining of strange smells. Could this be the same waiting room that incoming psychiatric patients use?

If so, if they misinterpreted your comment as "I think I'm going crazy, I'm smelling strange things that aren't there" (which is a common psychiatric symptom by the way!), then realised you are indeed fine, they may have been annoyed because there are often procedures in place which means if you say things like that, then you could have accidentally booked yourself a ticket for a psych evaluation.
So they may have been trying to warn you off using language like that in future, same as if you'd "joked" about bombs when going through customs at the airport, or about killing yourself or others in a hospital, airport, around police officers, etc etc.

Not enough context to tell, but just another interpretation.
posted by Elysum at 6:27 PM on December 18, 2014


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