Scrooging, or Too Generous?
December 9, 2014 10:28 AM Subscribe
How have you worked within a relationship with both have very different views (extreme?) on gift giving/receiving (to other people, not to each other)? In what ways have you managed your potentially irrational feelings regarding something you feel conflicted about?
We spend (in my opinion) a ridiculous amount on gifts for others. This year it will be around same spend as groceries; only going out and housing cost us more. We have no kids and 90% of the gifts were spent on adults.
I start to get upset as my wife continues to buy gifts (sometimes expensive) even as I continue to mention that she should try to limit it. However, I get mad at myself for getting mad—being generous isn’t a bad thing and we don’t buy frivolous stuff for ourselves, nor are we hurting for money(this amount is probably 1/20th of our take home). I don't think she should get gifts, but could spend less.
Plus she’s just fantastic in every way, why should I be mad at her? But, I’d rather spend money on charity (most of the gift receivers can afford these gifts).
She understands where I come from but thinks I’m being selfish—the gifts we are buying are for people who have been generous to us (we were married in the past year so we got a lot of gifts). She thinks it’s just being nice.
She comes from a family where gift buying is very important, and we get random gifts all around (here’s a gift for fall!) the year from her folks. My family is not into gifts (cultural/immigrant family) so I might get cash or support otherwise but nothing otherwise.
Here’s some maybe pertinent information:
1. Our incomes are high and pretty equal now, but will probably be unequal in future, so we are looking to save and manage our spending. We have completely combined our finances
2. Wife’s company is INSANE with gifts, we both agree. It’s a legal team, so upper lawyers are giving gifts to lower lawyers, secretaries and paralegals are giving and getting gifts. She probably has 20 people to buy gifts from just at her firm. Gifts are given for birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, bosses day. People go out together and buy gifts for each other. Parties are given, etc. I understand that gift buying i just part of her work culture, but it's not easy to swallow.
3. Flip side: I’ve never given or received a work gift in my life, and at my company even best of work friends (there is a large gender makeup difference, with may contribute to this, her thoughts) never get each other gifts for outside unless it’s a wedding or child born.
So far things (on edges of compromise) we’ve thought of to help us work through this disagreement: 1) a Christmas, year round gift budget 2) realization that this year is extreme due to wedding 3) realization that my thinking is selfish and my cultural feelings are not in the same culture I live in now 4) gift 'pre-approval' 5) therapy. Outside the gift budget, we haven't discussed this too much yet.
Any thoughts, tips, experiences?
We spend (in my opinion) a ridiculous amount on gifts for others. This year it will be around same spend as groceries; only going out and housing cost us more. We have no kids and 90% of the gifts were spent on adults.
I start to get upset as my wife continues to buy gifts (sometimes expensive) even as I continue to mention that she should try to limit it. However, I get mad at myself for getting mad—being generous isn’t a bad thing and we don’t buy frivolous stuff for ourselves, nor are we hurting for money(this amount is probably 1/20th of our take home). I don't think she should get gifts, but could spend less.
Plus she’s just fantastic in every way, why should I be mad at her? But, I’d rather spend money on charity (most of the gift receivers can afford these gifts).
She understands where I come from but thinks I’m being selfish—the gifts we are buying are for people who have been generous to us (we were married in the past year so we got a lot of gifts). She thinks it’s just being nice.
She comes from a family where gift buying is very important, and we get random gifts all around (here’s a gift for fall!) the year from her folks. My family is not into gifts (cultural/immigrant family) so I might get cash or support otherwise but nothing otherwise.
Here’s some maybe pertinent information:
1. Our incomes are high and pretty equal now, but will probably be unequal in future, so we are looking to save and manage our spending. We have completely combined our finances
2. Wife’s company is INSANE with gifts, we both agree. It’s a legal team, so upper lawyers are giving gifts to lower lawyers, secretaries and paralegals are giving and getting gifts. She probably has 20 people to buy gifts from just at her firm. Gifts are given for birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, bosses day. People go out together and buy gifts for each other. Parties are given, etc. I understand that gift buying i just part of her work culture, but it's not easy to swallow.
3. Flip side: I’ve never given or received a work gift in my life, and at my company even best of work friends (there is a large gender makeup difference, with may contribute to this, her thoughts) never get each other gifts for outside unless it’s a wedding or child born.
So far things (on edges of compromise) we’ve thought of to help us work through this disagreement: 1) a Christmas, year round gift budget 2) realization that this year is extreme due to wedding 3) realization that my thinking is selfish and my cultural feelings are not in the same culture I live in now 4) gift 'pre-approval' 5) therapy. Outside the gift budget, we haven't discussed this too much yet.
Any thoughts, tips, experiences?
Your thinking isn't selfish unless you don't want to give gifts but want to keep receiving them from other people. You're just not into material things, which I think is commendable.
Gifts for work are a work expense, so that's where they should go in your budget, like work clothes, shoes, etc. If you feel that your wife is spending too much on a specific gift, ask if she wants help shopping for a cheaper alternative. This is how we save money in my house--my husband tells me what he needs and I hunt for the cheapest/best version.
Do you give gifts to siblings or other family members besides parents? We have reduced the number of gifts we buy (and receive) by doing Secret Santa exchanges with our siblings. If there's anyone frugal on her side of the family try suggesting it to them first.
posted by chaiminda at 10:41 AM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
Gifts for work are a work expense, so that's where they should go in your budget, like work clothes, shoes, etc. If you feel that your wife is spending too much on a specific gift, ask if she wants help shopping for a cheaper alternative. This is how we save money in my house--my husband tells me what he needs and I hunt for the cheapest/best version.
Do you give gifts to siblings or other family members besides parents? We have reduced the number of gifts we buy (and receive) by doing Secret Santa exchanges with our siblings. If there's anyone frugal on her side of the family try suggesting it to them first.
posted by chaiminda at 10:41 AM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
Outside of the mandatory work gifts, do you still think that the gift buying is extreme?
Can you budget for the work gifts separately and treat it like a "business expense" that is offset by your Wife's take-home income? Like parking or dry cleaning?
As far as non-work gifts, I think maybe it would be reasonable to expect you guys to be able to meet in the middle, especially since gifts to family and friends are probably coming from both of you, you should both be comfortable with giving them. So, make a separate budget for that.
I don't think you're selfish.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:41 AM on December 9, 2014
Can you budget for the work gifts separately and treat it like a "business expense" that is offset by your Wife's take-home income? Like parking or dry cleaning?
As far as non-work gifts, I think maybe it would be reasonable to expect you guys to be able to meet in the middle, especially since gifts to family and friends are probably coming from both of you, you should both be comfortable with giving them. So, make a separate budget for that.
I don't think you're selfish.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:41 AM on December 9, 2014
I don't think you're selfish either. I'm biased though - I hate gift giving, and my extended family cancelled X-mas gifts about a decade ago and boy, is it ever awesome.
Does your wife mind doing all the gift shopping? If not, once you've decided on a budget and perhaps a list of recipients, would she be content to take on this task (perhaps in exchange for a different household task)? Because what I find is that, regardless of the overall cost, assessing and counting the expense of each individual gift triggers a stress response from me EACH time instead of, y'know, one stress response at the end when you've got the total. So if you can avoid participating in each gift decision, that may ease your feelings of anxiety around gifting.
posted by stray at 10:45 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Does your wife mind doing all the gift shopping? If not, once you've decided on a budget and perhaps a list of recipients, would she be content to take on this task (perhaps in exchange for a different household task)? Because what I find is that, regardless of the overall cost, assessing and counting the expense of each individual gift triggers a stress response from me EACH time instead of, y'know, one stress response at the end when you've got the total. So if you can avoid participating in each gift decision, that may ease your feelings of anxiety around gifting.
posted by stray at 10:45 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Come up with a budget and sequester the money. No spending outside of the agreed upon budget. Gift giving can be important, but there's no reason to go free-wheeling around, especially when you're saving for the future.
posted by quince at 11:11 AM on December 9, 2014
posted by quince at 11:11 AM on December 9, 2014
Best answer: I've pulled the plug on gifts to family and friends. We've all agreed to spend no more than $20 on gifts. This is working really well.
I give the kids in my life $10 gift cards. We do NOT exchange gifts with our friends.
As for the work thing, just budget that expense and roll with it. It's the work culture, and it's best not to monkey with that (it would make me batshit!) Maybe agree to squirrel away $50-$100 per month into a fund just for holiday gifts so it's not a huge, all-at-one time hit. When I was doing this, I bought nice wines by the case and gave them to folks. Easy to regift if they don't like them, you can get a good rate if you buy by the case.
While you don't like it, it's not really a big issue. If it doesn't hurt you financially, let it go. She'll be happier and you'll be happier.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:12 AM on December 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
I give the kids in my life $10 gift cards. We do NOT exchange gifts with our friends.
As for the work thing, just budget that expense and roll with it. It's the work culture, and it's best not to monkey with that (it would make me batshit!) Maybe agree to squirrel away $50-$100 per month into a fund just for holiday gifts so it's not a huge, all-at-one time hit. When I was doing this, I bought nice wines by the case and gave them to folks. Easy to regift if they don't like them, you can get a good rate if you buy by the case.
While you don't like it, it's not really a big issue. If it doesn't hurt you financially, let it go. She'll be happier and you'll be happier.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:12 AM on December 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
About 7 or 8 years ago, my mom said "None of us need anything. Let's do Secret Santa instead" and we all agreed. So between myself and my SO, brother and sister-in-law, my folks, and an aunt and uncle we're super close with, we set a $25 limit. Christmas shopping is a breeze in our family. Everybody still gets to open something, more or less stress-free. I don't do gifts for friends and other extended family and even my SO and I don't give gifts. Our household income would allow for that, but we just don't bother buying each other shit we don't need.
As far as your wife's work situation goes, you might have to compromise on that. It sounds like gift insanity to me, but it's probably an unavoidable part of her work culture.
posted by futureisunwritten at 11:32 AM on December 9, 2014
As far as your wife's work situation goes, you might have to compromise on that. It sounds like gift insanity to me, but it's probably an unavoidable part of her work culture.
posted by futureisunwritten at 11:32 AM on December 9, 2014
It's probably too late this year, but my husband was from the generous school & I was from the OMG we are spending all the money by budget is shot, make it stop school of gift giving.
We found a compromise by starting a small savings account where we budget a regular monthly amount to be put aside. Come Christmas he can spend himself silly using all the money in the account if he wants, but only that money. The amounts coming out each month are less scary for me, we both agreed to the amount, he gets to have the fun he gets from gift giving, even if he has to budget a little and I don't have a coronary as I know he won't blow out the budget. Last year he came in so under budget the account paid for all the extra Christmas groceries too so that was nice.
For the work gifts I suspect you are stuck with those and should maybe put them in the budget under work expenses.
posted by wwax at 11:45 AM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
We found a compromise by starting a small savings account where we budget a regular monthly amount to be put aside. Come Christmas he can spend himself silly using all the money in the account if he wants, but only that money. The amounts coming out each month are less scary for me, we both agreed to the amount, he gets to have the fun he gets from gift giving, even if he has to budget a little and I don't have a coronary as I know he won't blow out the budget. Last year he came in so under budget the account paid for all the extra Christmas groceries too so that was nice.
For the work gifts I suspect you are stuck with those and should maybe put them in the budget under work expenses.
posted by wwax at 11:45 AM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I might stop short of switching to Secret Santa as a means to control costs. It doesn't work for everyone. My wife and I (and the bulk of my family) are overgifters. When we tried this, a bunch of us cracked and blew past our limits. Others tried to quietly give extra gifts on the side to family members they felt had done big favors for them or were having a tough year. Then, worst of all, one of my brothers decided to exploit the "limit" loophole of the Secret Santa thing and gave truly thoughtless, cheap $7 gifts. There was weirdness all around. I'd rather spend the money on everybody than go through that again, budget be damned.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:47 AM on December 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:47 AM on December 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
I'm with you in so many ways -- the commodification in our culture drives me nuts. But one thing to examine is that relationship-building tasks like buying gifts and sending cards tend to be gendered and trivialized. Responsibilities like picking out presents, sending cards and planning events almost always fall on women, even in work settings -- and this labor of gratitude does provide the emotional glue that holds people together.
It sounds like you understand intellectually that we're stuck with a capitalist system and that these work gifts are simply required expenses related to maintaining business relationships, which is great. Just work on ensuring that you and your wife honor your personal thoughts on gift-giving in your personal relationships with family and friends. I have price limits with my s.o. and family and we often make a lot of the gifts ourselves, which works well for us (can be especially nice if you combine with gifting the excess savings to worthy causes).
posted by susanvance at 11:54 AM on December 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
It sounds like you understand intellectually that we're stuck with a capitalist system and that these work gifts are simply required expenses related to maintaining business relationships, which is great. Just work on ensuring that you and your wife honor your personal thoughts on gift-giving in your personal relationships with family and friends. I have price limits with my s.o. and family and we often make a lot of the gifts ourselves, which works well for us (can be especially nice if you combine with gifting the excess savings to worthy causes).
posted by susanvance at 11:54 AM on December 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I came from a family that never took gifts seriously, still doesn't. Gifts are often late, thoughtless, cheap. It hurts to this day. The ability to think carefully about someone else, and identify something that would really mean something to them, is priceless. Thinking of someone "just because it's fall" is priceless.
If you can afford these gifts, I'd counsel you to see the thoughts and feelings that underlie your wife's gift-giving, instead of only looking at the receipts left behind. Your wife is a special friend, colleague, and relative, and her generosity and careful gift-buying are incredibly beautiful — take it from someone who received countless gifts that went straight to Goodwill because they were not made from that place of empathy and caring.
Your wife's gifts are not a form of charity; she does not buy gifts for people because they can't afford these items themselves. She buys them because she cares. Love her for that. Others bake cakes, or knit scarves, or rake leaves, or whatever. This is her culture, and hamstringing her or fighting over her gift-giving will take something special away from her. That's the selfish aspect of your reaction: you're not seeing how essential this habit is for her identity and happiness.
Make a budget, and realize that you're putting money in that budget as a way of showing your own empathy for her loving and caring nature. This budget can change when your income changes, as all other parts of your budget likely will. And feel free to insist that some of the gifts your family gives are to charities.
This is your gift to her — to acknowledge and support her generosity.
posted by Capri at 12:55 PM on December 9, 2014 [25 favorites]
If you can afford these gifts, I'd counsel you to see the thoughts and feelings that underlie your wife's gift-giving, instead of only looking at the receipts left behind. Your wife is a special friend, colleague, and relative, and her generosity and careful gift-buying are incredibly beautiful — take it from someone who received countless gifts that went straight to Goodwill because they were not made from that place of empathy and caring.
Your wife's gifts are not a form of charity; she does not buy gifts for people because they can't afford these items themselves. She buys them because she cares. Love her for that. Others bake cakes, or knit scarves, or rake leaves, or whatever. This is her culture, and hamstringing her or fighting over her gift-giving will take something special away from her. That's the selfish aspect of your reaction: you're not seeing how essential this habit is for her identity and happiness.
Make a budget, and realize that you're putting money in that budget as a way of showing your own empathy for her loving and caring nature. This budget can change when your income changes, as all other parts of your budget likely will. And feel free to insist that some of the gifts your family gives are to charities.
This is your gift to her — to acknowledge and support her generosity.
posted by Capri at 12:55 PM on December 9, 2014 [25 favorites]
My wife gives lots of gifts . Old friends she hasn't seen in years still get a thoughtful birthday present mailed to them, she might decide to celebrate Spring by leaving May Day baskets at our friends' houses, kids we haven't seen since they are babies and we lived in another city probably wonder why someone calling herself Aunt [Area Woman] sends them a good book every year, and a ridiculous number of people get Christmas gifts. I've known her to give other couples gifts on their anniversaries. (She's also always the first to arrange to bring food or offer other concrete help when a baby is born or a family is in mourning.)
The time and money she spends on gift giving used to drive me crazy, but I decided years to just let it go. After all, I married her partly because she is such a generous spirit, and this is one expression of that generosity. She isn't spending more than we can afford, it makes her happy, it makes other people happy, and it helps build and maintain social bonds. I would recommend you agree on a gift budget, and then step back and let her do her thing.
posted by Area Man at 1:07 PM on December 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
The time and money she spends on gift giving used to drive me crazy, but I decided years to just let it go. After all, I married her partly because she is such a generous spirit, and this is one expression of that generosity. She isn't spending more than we can afford, it makes her happy, it makes other people happy, and it helps build and maintain social bonds. I would recommend you agree on a gift budget, and then step back and let her do her thing.
posted by Area Man at 1:07 PM on December 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
You can do a per-occasion budget rather than an overall budget. If you have the flexibility due to income, this allows you to deal with the fact that you can't control how many babies are born in a year, or how many weddings you are invited to.
So sit down and be specific: gifts for partners, associates, and support staff would each have a dollar value assigned to them. Gifts for weddings and babies would too. Make a Christmas list and assign a gift value to each person on it. Birthday presents for family and birthday presents for friends may need different values assigned to them.
You can also use this as an opportunity to better understand her family's gift giving tradition, and if that means she wants to give monthly, and you want to give annually, you jointly might now give quarterly.
HOWEVER, outside of what is functionally a work obligation of your wife's, your priorities are not less important than hers. The two of you also need to sit down and address charitable giving. That's easier to do as an annual budget item. You can jointly decide what charities and how much, but she needs to work with you enthusiastically there.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:37 PM on December 9, 2014
So sit down and be specific: gifts for partners, associates, and support staff would each have a dollar value assigned to them. Gifts for weddings and babies would too. Make a Christmas list and assign a gift value to each person on it. Birthday presents for family and birthday presents for friends may need different values assigned to them.
You can also use this as an opportunity to better understand her family's gift giving tradition, and if that means she wants to give monthly, and you want to give annually, you jointly might now give quarterly.
HOWEVER, outside of what is functionally a work obligation of your wife's, your priorities are not less important than hers. The two of you also need to sit down and address charitable giving. That's easier to do as an annual budget item. You can jointly decide what charities and how much, but she needs to work with you enthusiastically there.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:37 PM on December 9, 2014
It sounds like the work gifting is unavoidable--it's just something you'll have to swallow
It's worth considering that in many families, gift-giving is a sign of love. My father is not a demonstrative man, but goes ridiculously overboard every birthday and Christmas, going above and beyond to find people gifts that they'll appreciate. I suspect that if my family were to try to pull back on gift giving, he'd feel hurt and rejected--it makes him feel good to give us things, and to know that he's giving us things that we'll use, or that we wouldn't buy for ourselves, or whatever.
I am in many ways my father's daughter, and gift giving is a way I express my love for people. I'm not great at staying in touch with people or expressing emotions, but I'm pretty good at giving gifts, and I'd be really hurt if my partner were like, hey, this thing you do because you love people--it's ridiculous and over the top, and even though we can afford it, I want you to stop.
It's unclear if this is a factor in things for your wife, but if that's the kind of culture she's from, asking her to stop could be, to her, very similar to asking her to stop showing her affection for people.
posted by MeghanC at 1:51 PM on December 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's worth considering that in many families, gift-giving is a sign of love. My father is not a demonstrative man, but goes ridiculously overboard every birthday and Christmas, going above and beyond to find people gifts that they'll appreciate. I suspect that if my family were to try to pull back on gift giving, he'd feel hurt and rejected--it makes him feel good to give us things, and to know that he's giving us things that we'll use, or that we wouldn't buy for ourselves, or whatever.
I am in many ways my father's daughter, and gift giving is a way I express my love for people. I'm not great at staying in touch with people or expressing emotions, but I'm pretty good at giving gifts, and I'd be really hurt if my partner were like, hey, this thing you do because you love people--it's ridiculous and over the top, and even though we can afford it, I want you to stop.
It's unclear if this is a factor in things for your wife, but if that's the kind of culture she's from, asking her to stop could be, to her, very similar to asking her to stop showing her affection for people.
posted by MeghanC at 1:51 PM on December 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
The hierarchical nature of your wife's work necessitates generous gifts to her coworkers. It's a form of cementing relationships which will be useful in future years as lawyers go on to different firms or jobs and colleagues run into each other again as well as a form of "sharing the wealth" in a workplace where partners are making several multiples of the salary of the associates and associates are making many times more than the paralegals and secretaries.
posted by deanc at 2:27 PM on December 9, 2014
posted by deanc at 2:27 PM on December 9, 2014
It's worth looking at your own responses too. I understand that some people show love via gifts but it just makes me feel ill most of the time (receiving and giving). You're lucky enough that you can offload some of that emotional labour but the tangible reminders seem to be triggering the same emotional response in you.
The only solution is that once you've come up with a budget you let it go.
posted by geek anachronism at 4:42 PM on December 9, 2014
The only solution is that once you've come up with a budget you let it go.
posted by geek anachronism at 4:42 PM on December 9, 2014
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No use for name calling ("selfish") or for gift "pre-approval" - I would just say "As a couple we are going to spend X on gifts each year" and then keep track of it. If that doesn't work, yeah, therapy is a great option for working out things together.
Having two separate budgets - one for family and one for work - might be best. The work thing is going to be hard to curb; the family thing, suggesting a different family tradition for the holidays might work well (e.g. "Let's just get gifts for the kids this year" "Let's all go in on a charity together" "Let's do a secret santa") - a lot of families do this as children turn into adults, in my experience.
posted by sockermom at 10:39 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]