Re-Installation of Macbook G4 - Help Me Restore it to Glory
December 3, 2013 2:11 AM Subscribe
So gifted with Macbook G4 - from way back. It never booted up properly as per previous owners. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. S
ince I've received it same story. Till about 2 weeks ago when it stopped booting and just showed either the startup apple with a circular moving icon, or at other times an icon with a question mark. Now I want to give it one last try and go for a complete re-install.
Except I have no discs and neither does the original owner.
So - downloading seems to be my only option. It's *that* minor thing I need help with. I have rewritable discs that will take 750 mgs each and that's it. I do have packed away somewhere DVD writable discs. If I can find them.
Basically I need someone to explain to a baby who can somewhat comprehend geek in the simplest of terms what she needs to be doing. How to set up her PC to receive the data of Tiger (I presume - this machine is running 10.4.6), how to name the discs, in what format to save them and then what to be doing to the Mac - what to press, what to type etc. etc.
I just want to move into working with a Mac since becoming somewhat friendly with it. I like how it feels and I like the environment - even if this particular machine is ancient - it's what I got right now.
Help me set this up so I can write my book, please.
ince I've received it same story. Till about 2 weeks ago when it stopped booting and just showed either the startup apple with a circular moving icon, or at other times an icon with a question mark. Now I want to give it one last try and go for a complete re-install.
Except I have no discs and neither does the original owner.
So - downloading seems to be my only option. It's *that* minor thing I need help with. I have rewritable discs that will take 750 mgs each and that's it. I do have packed away somewhere DVD writable discs. If I can find them.
Basically I need someone to explain to a baby who can somewhat comprehend geek in the simplest of terms what she needs to be doing. How to set up her PC to receive the data of Tiger (I presume - this machine is running 10.4.6), how to name the discs, in what format to save them and then what to be doing to the Mac - what to press, what to type etc. etc.
I just want to move into working with a Mac since becoming somewhat friendly with it. I like how it feels and I like the environment - even if this particular machine is ancient - it's what I got right now.
Help me set this up so I can write my book, please.
I started to write out a long instructional post to do this, and remembered something grand!
The apple store will reinstall your os FOR FREE! I watched them do this for someone who had a dead hard drive, bought a new one and installed it, and realized they had lost the DVDs that came with the system. I've also heard of people who accidentally corrupted their install walking in to the store and having them format and reinstall it.
They'll sit you down at one of the genius tables, bring out a dvd, format your drive and start up the install, then check in with you since it takes a half hour or so generally.
There are machines that shipped with tiger that are still supported, so they'll have it around. In theory they'll only reinstall the OS your system shipped with(which may be panther? depends on the powerbook G4 revision you have) but honestly on a system they currently count as "vintage and out of service" they'll probably be cool about it.
If you specifically want instructions on how to reinstall at home post back. I actually spent a few minutes double checking steps to give you good instructions, and i just ran through this recently with a powerbook g4 someone dropped in my lap just for something to do(which turned out to be damaged, so i never got to finish.. but oh well)
posted by emptythought at 4:47 AM on December 3, 2013 [2 favorites]
The apple store will reinstall your os FOR FREE! I watched them do this for someone who had a dead hard drive, bought a new one and installed it, and realized they had lost the DVDs that came with the system. I've also heard of people who accidentally corrupted their install walking in to the store and having them format and reinstall it.
They'll sit you down at one of the genius tables, bring out a dvd, format your drive and start up the install, then check in with you since it takes a half hour or so generally.
There are machines that shipped with tiger that are still supported, so they'll have it around. In theory they'll only reinstall the OS your system shipped with(which may be panther? depends on the powerbook G4 revision you have) but honestly on a system they currently count as "vintage and out of service" they'll probably be cool about it.
If you specifically want instructions on how to reinstall at home post back. I actually spent a few minutes double checking steps to give you good instructions, and i just ran through this recently with a powerbook g4 someone dropped in my lap just for something to do(which turned out to be damaged, so i never got to finish.. but oh well)
posted by emptythought at 4:47 AM on December 3, 2013 [2 favorites]
Command+R at boot will reinstall your Mac over the net. More info.
posted by devnull at 5:16 AM on December 3, 2013
posted by devnull at 5:16 AM on December 3, 2013
Have you tried resetting the PRAM? (Turn off the Mac, press & hold Command (⌘), Option, P, and R all together whilst turning the mac on & keep them held down until the second startup beep)
If that doesn't work, then you could see if you can boot a Debian PPC install CD (no need to actually install it). You can download an image from this link: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.2.0/powerpc/iso-cd/debian-7.2.0-powerpc-netinst.iso and burn it to a CD on your PC. Then boot from the CD by pressing and holding the C key during startup on your Mac.
devnull: Network recovery wasn't available on Macs this old IIRC.
posted by pharm at 5:19 AM on December 3, 2013 [2 favorites]
If that doesn't work, then you could see if you can boot a Debian PPC install CD (no need to actually install it). You can download an image from this link: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.2.0/powerpc/iso-cd/debian-7.2.0-powerpc-netinst.iso and burn it to a CD on your PC. Then boot from the CD by pressing and holding the C key during startup on your Mac.
devnull: Network recovery wasn't available on Macs this old IIRC.
posted by pharm at 5:19 AM on December 3, 2013 [2 favorites]
NB. The only legal way to receive a copy of OSX that old appears to be via eBay at vast expense. emptythough may be right: your best bet is to throw yourself upon the mercy of an Apple store if they're willing to help you.
posted by pharm at 5:23 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by pharm at 5:23 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
Help me set this up so I can write my book, please.
Don't write your book on a failing Powerbook G4 that "sometimes doesn't start up". The symptoms you're describing of the intermittent question mark are either a) a dying hard drive (very likely) or b) a dying motherboard.
You could fix a) for some cash, b) will be too expensive to bother with.
Either way, one day this thing will not start up for good, and your book will be locked inside.
posted by bonaldi at 5:29 AM on December 3, 2013 [8 favorites]
Don't write your book on a failing Powerbook G4 that "sometimes doesn't start up". The symptoms you're describing of the intermittent question mark are either a) a dying hard drive (very likely) or b) a dying motherboard.
You could fix a) for some cash, b) will be too expensive to bother with.
Either way, one day this thing will not start up for good, and your book will be locked inside.
posted by bonaldi at 5:29 AM on December 3, 2013 [8 favorites]
Your symptoms describe a failing hard disk. Do NOT depend upon this machine for anything.
A fully functional iBook or PowerBook is under $100 on Craigslist. Don't waste your time on this one. Free is not cheap when free is broken.
posted by blob at 5:47 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
A fully functional iBook or PowerBook is under $100 on Craigslist. Don't waste your time on this one. Free is not cheap when free is broken.
posted by blob at 5:47 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think emptythought has you sorted with the Apple store, but to respond to later comments about the reliability of this machine—
Yes it's an unreliable machine if it doesn't consistently start up. However that's no reason not to use it; set up Dropbox which will run on Tiger or later and enjoy cloud sync.
posted by a halcyon day at 6:42 AM on December 3, 2013
Yes it's an unreliable machine if it doesn't consistently start up. However that's no reason not to use it; set up Dropbox which will run on Tiger or later and enjoy cloud sync.
posted by a halcyon day at 6:42 AM on December 3, 2013
Incidentally, do you have a PowerBook G4, or a MacBook? It'll be printed right under the screen. The PowerBook is the older line.
I'd try resetting the PRAM, as detailed by Pharm above, but probably the best thing is to take it to an Apple store, ideally off peak hours, and ask in a very friendly way if and what they can do to help. If you get someone knowledgeable (and old enough to have personal experience with this model) who genuinely loves the machines, I imagine they may be excited enough to see an old friend that they'll probably bend over backwards for you, especially if they're the sort of person who believes in repairing good products rather than disposing for new. (You might have to try more than one store, especially if the staff is mostly salespeople trying to push the latest product or not personally technically knowledgeable about older repair.) If you're in college or at a workplace with a technical staff, you might ask around to see who's the person everyone brings their old computers to. Or you might try a place like Free Geek (who specifically refurbishes old machines) or your local tech-oriented hackerspace.
By the way, I have a PowerBook G4, bought in December 2003, and it is my main computer that I still use every day. I would be using it to read and reply to this if I wasn't at work. It's a bit slow, and has gone through several power adapters (a common problem with this model), and the hinge is giving out...but apart from that, it's still working pretty amazingly well for its age. (I am rather patient and very cheap, though; and it can't handle 100% of the latest flashy RAM-heavy content, though if you're just using it for word processing you should be fine. [By the way, if you're writing a book, consider using LaTeX.] And I am looking to upgrade sometime soon, although I plan to keep this guy around.) Can't say that for many of my friends' PCs bought around the same time. It's amazing to me that the 10+year-old design still looks modern today.
posted by spelunkingplato at 7:39 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd try resetting the PRAM, as detailed by Pharm above, but probably the best thing is to take it to an Apple store, ideally off peak hours, and ask in a very friendly way if and what they can do to help. If you get someone knowledgeable (and old enough to have personal experience with this model) who genuinely loves the machines, I imagine they may be excited enough to see an old friend that they'll probably bend over backwards for you, especially if they're the sort of person who believes in repairing good products rather than disposing for new. (You might have to try more than one store, especially if the staff is mostly salespeople trying to push the latest product or not personally technically knowledgeable about older repair.) If you're in college or at a workplace with a technical staff, you might ask around to see who's the person everyone brings their old computers to. Or you might try a place like Free Geek (who specifically refurbishes old machines) or your local tech-oriented hackerspace.
By the way, I have a PowerBook G4, bought in December 2003, and it is my main computer that I still use every day. I would be using it to read and reply to this if I wasn't at work. It's a bit slow, and has gone through several power adapters (a common problem with this model), and the hinge is giving out...but apart from that, it's still working pretty amazingly well for its age. (I am rather patient and very cheap, though; and it can't handle 100% of the latest flashy RAM-heavy content, though if you're just using it for word processing you should be fine. [By the way, if you're writing a book, consider using LaTeX.] And I am looking to upgrade sometime soon, although I plan to keep this guy around.) Can't say that for many of my friends' PCs bought around the same time. It's amazing to me that the 10+year-old design still looks modern today.
posted by spelunkingplato at 7:39 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: OK - so - I can't take it to an Apple store because there are none in the country where me and the Mac reside. So that's out.
Next I burned the Debian - it's not doing anything - I am getting an orange light from the power plug area and a flashing green light from beneath the Mac. Still didn't try PRAM.
Appreciating all the responses and good suggestions.
posted by watercarrier at 8:34 AM on December 3, 2013
Next I burned the Debian - it's not doing anything - I am getting an orange light from the power plug area and a flashing green light from beneath the Mac. Still didn't try PRAM.
Appreciating all the responses and good suggestions.
posted by watercarrier at 8:34 AM on December 3, 2013
Try the PRAM first watercarrier.
Just to make sure: did you burn the Debian file as an ISO image, or did you copy it as a file onto the CD? You can tell if you stick the burnt CD into your windows PC - it should list a whole load of files on the CD instead of just one.
The flashing green light underneath should be the battery charge lights, whist the orange light from the power plug is the 'I'm on mains power & charging' light IIRC (it goes green when it stops charging).
posted by pharm at 8:42 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just to make sure: did you burn the Debian file as an ISO image, or did you copy it as a file onto the CD? You can tell if you stick the burnt CD into your windows PC - it should list a whole load of files on the CD instead of just one.
The flashing green light underneath should be the battery charge lights, whist the orange light from the power plug is the 'I'm on mains power & charging' light IIRC (it goes green when it stops charging).
posted by pharm at 8:42 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just did the PRAM came up with flashing mac icon with question mark. Back to square one?
posted by watercarrier at 8:44 AM on December 3, 2013
posted by watercarrier at 8:44 AM on December 3, 2013
Probably means the HD has died watercarrier.
Check the Debian CD as above & then see if you can boot that now?
posted by pharm at 8:59 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
Check the Debian CD as above & then see if you can boot that now?
posted by pharm at 8:59 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Am installing the Debian as we speak - let's see if it is successful.
posted by watercarrier at 9:03 AM on December 3, 2013
posted by watercarrier at 9:03 AM on December 3, 2013
Response by poster: Debian says I need to load non-free firmware agere_sta_fw.bin - where do I get that?
posted by watercarrier at 9:12 AM on December 3, 2013
posted by watercarrier at 9:12 AM on December 3, 2013
Response by poster: spelunkingplato - it's a Powerbook
Just as a update - I'm trying to install the Debian - it's stuck (stalled) at starting up the partitioner which seems to be a known bug. Ach. Now what?
posted by watercarrier at 10:16 AM on December 3, 2013
Just as a update - I'm trying to install the Debian - it's stuck (stalled) at starting up the partitioner which seems to be a known bug. Ach. Now what?
posted by watercarrier at 10:16 AM on December 3, 2013
Could be that it's hanging because the hard disk is not responding? If you listen closely is it making a repetitive click...click...click every couple of seconds? (that would be the HD trying to recalibrate the read/write head and trying the read or write operation over and over again).
Don't feel pressured to install Linux if you don't want to!
The firmware is probably available in the firmware non free package (which you could install later after getting everything else going) or else by grabbing a copy of the windows driver from somewhere and running a script to extract it. If you google for that filename you'll find some instructions for doing so. (It's the firmware for the Wireless ethernet interface as it happens.)
The other problem you might have with this laptop is that the battery that runs the internal clock may well have died. This means that every time you turn it on the time will be set back to 1/1/1970 which will be a little annoying! I have to admit that I finally gave up on one of these G4s a couple of years ago for that reason. My current workhorse is an ex corporate Thinkpad X60s with Debian on it - you can pick these up (or something similar) for $100 or so these days & they mostly work pretty well. Realistically it may not be worth putting that much time into the Powerbook sadly.
posted by pharm at 1:36 PM on December 3, 2013
Don't feel pressured to install Linux if you don't want to!
The firmware is probably available in the firmware non free package (which you could install later after getting everything else going) or else by grabbing a copy of the windows driver from somewhere and running a script to extract it. If you google for that filename you'll find some instructions for doing so. (It's the firmware for the Wireless ethernet interface as it happens.)
The other problem you might have with this laptop is that the battery that runs the internal clock may well have died. This means that every time you turn it on the time will be set back to 1/1/1970 which will be a little annoying! I have to admit that I finally gave up on one of these G4s a couple of years ago for that reason. My current workhorse is an ex corporate Thinkpad X60s with Debian on it - you can pick these up (or something similar) for $100 or so these days & they mostly work pretty well. Realistically it may not be worth putting that much time into the Powerbook sadly.
posted by pharm at 1:36 PM on December 3, 2013
I wouldn't bother with debian, and am kinda surprised that was suggested. Getting things working on powerpc linux(or, ugh, using debian) is a project best left to nerds who are doing it for the sake of it and want something to mess around with.
I'm actually a little annoyed that happened. They said they were comfortable and happy with the OSX environ, and asked for instructions about that.
I wouldn't quite write the HDD off as dead yet, possibly just corrupted. I also would take anything the debian installer locked up at or issues it was having with a MASSIVE grain of salt.
What you need, is a tiger disk. These old macs don't always play nice with USB drives(although they can _theoretically_ boot them, i've had issues with them not liking certain drives even more than newer machines). I memailed you a link to the disk image, and once you have it you'll need to either use disk utility if you have a mac handy, or the trial of poweriso to burn it. No other windows burning software seems to play nice with mac disk images, don't waste your time or create frustration.
In disk utility you'll want to drag it into the white sidebar, you may have to click "convert" at the top and make it into a DMG, but if "burn" is available just click that and bam. Disk utility is VERY simple.
In poweriso, simply foliow these instructions, which have nice screenshots.
I've had issues with powerbook G4s refusing to boot to the DVD if the hard drive was damaged. But once it boots, format the drive with disk utility on the installer DVD and check at the bottom to see if it says "smart status: verified". If it does, you're likely OK. Exist disk utility and start the install.
If you need further instructions with any step of that let me know.
posted by emptythought at 11:52 PM on December 3, 2013
I'm actually a little annoyed that happened. They said they were comfortable and happy with the OSX environ, and asked for instructions about that.
I wouldn't quite write the HDD off as dead yet, possibly just corrupted. I also would take anything the debian installer locked up at or issues it was having with a MASSIVE grain of salt.
What you need, is a tiger disk. These old macs don't always play nice with USB drives(although they can _theoretically_ boot them, i've had issues with them not liking certain drives even more than newer machines). I memailed you a link to the disk image, and once you have it you'll need to either use disk utility if you have a mac handy, or the trial of poweriso to burn it. No other windows burning software seems to play nice with mac disk images, don't waste your time or create frustration.
In disk utility you'll want to drag it into the white sidebar, you may have to click "convert" at the top and make it into a DMG, but if "burn" is available just click that and bam. Disk utility is VERY simple.
In poweriso, simply foliow these instructions, which have nice screenshots.
I've had issues with powerbook G4s refusing to boot to the DVD if the hard drive was damaged. But once it boots, format the drive with disk utility on the installer DVD and check at the bottom to see if it says "smart status: verified". If it does, you're likely OK. Exist disk utility and start the install.
If you need further instructions with any step of that let me know.
posted by emptythought at 11:52 PM on December 3, 2013
@emptythought: The intention was to use the Linux boot cd to *test* the laptop to see if it works or not! Perhaps I wasn't explicit enough.
posted by pharm at 3:15 AM on December 4, 2013
posted by pharm at 3:15 AM on December 4, 2013
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posted by steinwald at 4:39 AM on December 3, 2013