Should I ask my landlord for money off rent?
October 2, 2013 6:24 AM Subscribe
My landlord and I have a previously discussed arrangement where if I am able to save him a call to a handyman by dealing with an issue myself, I can ask for "whatever's fair" off of rent. Yesterday, a visit by the utility company took up a large part of my day. Not sure if I should ask for money and if so, how much, and how to phrase.
Backstory: My building has seven units and is the only rental property owned by my landlord, who lives 15-20 minutes away. We don't have a Super. For the most part, as problems arise, landlord will either fix himself or make a call to someone to take care of it. On top of this, I have been designated "building captain." This just means replacing lightbulbs in common areas, shoveling/sweeping the sidewalk, and dragging trash/recycling to and from the curb. When lease was signed, we agreed on $40/month off of rent for these services.
Less-Far-Backstory: A couple of weeks ago, landlord informed me that he'd be traveling more in the coming months. He then stated two things:
1. Building Captain duties would now net me $50/month with no change in responsibilities.
2. If I wanted, he could start checking with me when calls for help come in to see if it's something I'd be comfortable with taking care of. If so, he'd be willing to pay me "whatever's fair" as an hourly rate (as it would save him a call to a much more expensive handyman.) We discussed the limits of my skills (basic home maintenance, snaking toilets, etc etc.) We did not set an hourly rate for "whatever's fair." In general, I didn't think too much about this: There's not a ton I'd be able to do that most tenants couldn't do themselves, but hey, sure, why not.
Yesterday's Stuff: On Monday, Landlord sent an email to all tenants asking if someone would be around during the day Tuesday (yesterday) from 8-12 to let in the gas company as they had to change the meter. He also stated, to all tenants, that the gas company would need access to all apartments with gas stoves (5 of 7 units) to check them and relight pilots, where applicable.
I was home sick from work, so I responded that I'd be able to let them in. I didn't hear anything back until yesterday at 10:30 (in the window provided) stating that he had let them in himself, and they'd determined they needed another part, and would be back at noon. Additionally, he asked (everyone, not just me) if someone could let them in at noon. I agreed. He then responded, just to me, to additionally state that all I would need to do is let them in the front door and hand them the master key, and they could enter all apartments themselves.
Full details of how the rest of the day played out:
1:30: Gas company arrives (expected at 12.) They inform me that they cannot enter apartments themselves, and I must accompany them. The master key only gets us into 6 of 7 apartments. They state they cannot begin work until they confirm the seventh apartment doesn't have a gas range. I call landlord, he tells them it is electric. Gas company insists they must see it themselves. I call landlord back, tell him this, then I go back to my apartment. Total time spent: ~30 minutes.
2:30: Landlord comes to my apartment to let me know they entered the last apartment, confirmed it isn't a gas stove, and started work. Also states that they will need to re-enter all apartments with gas stoves once they are done to verify. Asks me to help them with this. States they should be done by 5:00. I tell the gas guys to knock on my door when they're ready.
5:15: Still no word from the gas guys. I head down there to see what's going on. They have pressure tests failing, so I go knock on everyone's door to tell them to stop messing with the ranges until further notice. Pressure tests are resolved. We go back to each apartment to check stoves. Then an issue with relighting the one until with a separate furnace (rest are on radiators.) When all is said and done, they're not out of there until 6:45. Total time spent on this phase: ~1:30.
So: Should I charge landlord for the two hours I spent on this? On the whole, that time didn't bother me in and of itself, I'm mostly pissed off that he had sold the responsibility to me as simply opening the front door for them, but it ended up being a lot more. Additionally, the only reason I did it instead of him seemed to be that he didn't want to do it himself, not that he couldn't (as he came down at 1:30 to let them into the apartment the master key didn't work on.)
The money isn't terribly important to me, but I feel like we'd previously discussed the concept of being compensated for my time in similar matters. Additionally, I don't want to set a precedent that I'm willing to do things like this on a regular basis without compensation. It was a coincidence that I was home from work yesterday, otherwise he would have needed to do this himself or have an authorized agent be there for a much longer portion of the day, which would have been considerably more expensive to him.
Finally, if I ask him for money, how do I phrase it, and how much should I ask for?
Backstory: My building has seven units and is the only rental property owned by my landlord, who lives 15-20 minutes away. We don't have a Super. For the most part, as problems arise, landlord will either fix himself or make a call to someone to take care of it. On top of this, I have been designated "building captain." This just means replacing lightbulbs in common areas, shoveling/sweeping the sidewalk, and dragging trash/recycling to and from the curb. When lease was signed, we agreed on $40/month off of rent for these services.
Less-Far-Backstory: A couple of weeks ago, landlord informed me that he'd be traveling more in the coming months. He then stated two things:
1. Building Captain duties would now net me $50/month with no change in responsibilities.
2. If I wanted, he could start checking with me when calls for help come in to see if it's something I'd be comfortable with taking care of. If so, he'd be willing to pay me "whatever's fair" as an hourly rate (as it would save him a call to a much more expensive handyman.) We discussed the limits of my skills (basic home maintenance, snaking toilets, etc etc.) We did not set an hourly rate for "whatever's fair." In general, I didn't think too much about this: There's not a ton I'd be able to do that most tenants couldn't do themselves, but hey, sure, why not.
Yesterday's Stuff: On Monday, Landlord sent an email to all tenants asking if someone would be around during the day Tuesday (yesterday) from 8-12 to let in the gas company as they had to change the meter. He also stated, to all tenants, that the gas company would need access to all apartments with gas stoves (5 of 7 units) to check them and relight pilots, where applicable.
I was home sick from work, so I responded that I'd be able to let them in. I didn't hear anything back until yesterday at 10:30 (in the window provided) stating that he had let them in himself, and they'd determined they needed another part, and would be back at noon. Additionally, he asked (everyone, not just me) if someone could let them in at noon. I agreed. He then responded, just to me, to additionally state that all I would need to do is let them in the front door and hand them the master key, and they could enter all apartments themselves.
Full details of how the rest of the day played out:
1:30: Gas company arrives (expected at 12.) They inform me that they cannot enter apartments themselves, and I must accompany them. The master key only gets us into 6 of 7 apartments. They state they cannot begin work until they confirm the seventh apartment doesn't have a gas range. I call landlord, he tells them it is electric. Gas company insists they must see it themselves. I call landlord back, tell him this, then I go back to my apartment. Total time spent: ~30 minutes.
2:30: Landlord comes to my apartment to let me know they entered the last apartment, confirmed it isn't a gas stove, and started work. Also states that they will need to re-enter all apartments with gas stoves once they are done to verify. Asks me to help them with this. States they should be done by 5:00. I tell the gas guys to knock on my door when they're ready.
5:15: Still no word from the gas guys. I head down there to see what's going on. They have pressure tests failing, so I go knock on everyone's door to tell them to stop messing with the ranges until further notice. Pressure tests are resolved. We go back to each apartment to check stoves. Then an issue with relighting the one until with a separate furnace (rest are on radiators.) When all is said and done, they're not out of there until 6:45. Total time spent on this phase: ~1:30.
So: Should I charge landlord for the two hours I spent on this? On the whole, that time didn't bother me in and of itself, I'm mostly pissed off that he had sold the responsibility to me as simply opening the front door for them, but it ended up being a lot more. Additionally, the only reason I did it instead of him seemed to be that he didn't want to do it himself, not that he couldn't (as he came down at 1:30 to let them into the apartment the master key didn't work on.)
The money isn't terribly important to me, but I feel like we'd previously discussed the concept of being compensated for my time in similar matters. Additionally, I don't want to set a precedent that I'm willing to do things like this on a regular basis without compensation. It was a coincidence that I was home from work yesterday, otherwise he would have needed to do this himself or have an authorized agent be there for a much longer portion of the day, which would have been considerably more expensive to him.
Finally, if I ask him for money, how do I phrase it, and how much should I ask for?
He didn't "sell" it to you, that's the nature of these things. I'm sure he honestly thought it would be no big deal, and it's the utility that made it rough. Trust me, this happens with waiting on anyone from a utility, be it phone, gas, electric or cable.
1. They don't arrive in the appointment window, and will call you at the last minute to tell you that they're late.
2. They need access to something you had no idea about and now you have to scramble to figure out how to get it to them.
3. They won't let you sit on the sofa watching Maury, but will insist that you hang out with them, or will ask you a bunch of questions, interrupting Law and Order: Criminal Intent, just as Goren is going to trick the perp into confessing.
4. They won't have the part they need to fix it.
5. They jerry-rig something up and then want to reschedule to get the right part.
It's maddening and it's a part of life.
Sorry you were inconvenienced, but be a mench and let it go.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:30 AM on October 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
1. They don't arrive in the appointment window, and will call you at the last minute to tell you that they're late.
2. They need access to something you had no idea about and now you have to scramble to figure out how to get it to them.
3. They won't let you sit on the sofa watching Maury, but will insist that you hang out with them, or will ask you a bunch of questions, interrupting Law and Order: Criminal Intent, just as Goren is going to trick the perp into confessing.
4. They won't have the part they need to fix it.
5. They jerry-rig something up and then want to reschedule to get the right part.
It's maddening and it's a part of life.
Sorry you were inconvenienced, but be a mench and let it go.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:30 AM on October 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yes, this is just part of living somewhere. I think the landlord meant you could deduct the money spent on a workman's labor and parts, not unilaterally charge some price for your own time when you're home sick, have volunteered to facilitate and things happened to run over.
Do you ever want to ask a neighbor or the landlord something like: Hey I think I left my window open and it's raining and I'm stuck at work, can you check? Or I'm out of town, can you check my door and bring in packages that I found out might be delivered? Or my battery died, can you help me jump start? If so, then chalk your time up to karma.
posted by third rail at 6:34 AM on October 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Do you ever want to ask a neighbor or the landlord something like: Hey I think I left my window open and it's raining and I'm stuck at work, can you check? Or I'm out of town, can you check my door and bring in packages that I found out might be delivered? Or my battery died, can you help me jump start? If so, then chalk your time up to karma.
posted by third rail at 6:34 AM on October 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ask him, once, if he counts that as a "building captain" thing or a "whatever's fair" thing. If he says the latter, great, charge him. If he says the former, then drop it immediately and smile. You will poison what sounds like a pretty good relationship by forcing this issue.
posted by Etrigan at 6:39 AM on October 2, 2013
posted by Etrigan at 6:39 AM on October 2, 2013
This is just a normal part of living somewhere. I don't see this as part of your arrangment, certainly not beyond the $40 off rent you are getting. In my opinion, you are not entitled to additional compensation.
posted by spaltavian at 6:42 AM on October 2, 2013
posted by spaltavian at 6:42 AM on October 2, 2013
I don't get a couple of the previous responses. Facilitating the repair of one's own residence is a part of living somewhere, but spending hours helping with repairs to others' units, for free, is not.
I have been designated "building captain." This just means replacing lightbulbs in common areas, shoveling/sweeping the sidewalk, and dragging trash/recycling to and from the curb. When lease was signed, we agreed on $40/month off of rent for these services.
IMO, if you're spending more than 2 hours a month shoveling, sweeping, replacing light bulbs and trash-hauling then you're underpaid. He couldn't hire anyone who didn't live there to do such work for anywhere near that price, and you're saving him a lot of time and money. At 15-20 minutes away you're probably saving him $10 in vehicle costs plus an hour or more of his time for every single spur-of-the-moment task you do for him.
I wouldn't necessarily ask for money in this case. Negotiating such a thing retroactively would be awkward enough to be not worth it. But I do think you need to decide how much you'd want to be paid for it to be worth doing this sort of thing in the future, and have that explicit, specific negotiation with the landlord.
posted by jon1270 at 6:46 AM on October 2, 2013 [5 favorites]
I have been designated "building captain." This just means replacing lightbulbs in common areas, shoveling/sweeping the sidewalk, and dragging trash/recycling to and from the curb. When lease was signed, we agreed on $40/month off of rent for these services.
IMO, if you're spending more than 2 hours a month shoveling, sweeping, replacing light bulbs and trash-hauling then you're underpaid. He couldn't hire anyone who didn't live there to do such work for anywhere near that price, and you're saving him a lot of time and money. At 15-20 minutes away you're probably saving him $10 in vehicle costs plus an hour or more of his time for every single spur-of-the-moment task you do for him.
I wouldn't necessarily ask for money in this case. Negotiating such a thing retroactively would be awkward enough to be not worth it. But I do think you need to decide how much you'd want to be paid for it to be worth doing this sort of thing in the future, and have that explicit, specific negotiation with the landlord.
posted by jon1270 at 6:46 AM on October 2, 2013 [5 favorites]
You were home sick, but other tenants were also around? You volunteered to let Gas Co. in. You volunteered to go tell people to stop using the stoves for the pressure tests--Gas Co guys could have done this themselves. I can see where you were needed to go into the empty places, but if other tenants were around, why bother?
I think you're torn between doing the semi-super stuff for $50 off, and acting like the responsible full-time Super. If you volunteered for more, you could try to get more off your rent, but I'd bet the landlord will wonder a bit.
posted by Ideefixe at 7:16 AM on October 2, 2013
I think you're torn between doing the semi-super stuff for $50 off, and acting like the responsible full-time Super. If you volunteered for more, you could try to get more off your rent, but I'd bet the landlord will wonder a bit.
posted by Ideefixe at 7:16 AM on October 2, 2013
You were home anyway, the gas company almost certainly presented it to him as just letting them in, etc. It would have been unreasonable to ask all tenants to stay home to give the gas co. access. But you did perform a useful service. I would keep a log of work performed monthly. Replacing lightbulbs in common areas and dragging trash/recycling to and from the curb likely takes maybe 2 - 3 hours a month. Salting the walk on an icy morning, shoveling/sweeping the sidewalk, and responding to clogged drains, etc., can take much more time. The easy-peasy stuff is worth 10/hour or so. Shoveling, etc., is worth 15 or so/hr. Keep track, and if you exceed an average of 50/ month of work, ask him to re-negotiate. I used to be a small-time landlord, and 50/month for 7 units is a bargain for having someone trustworthy keep an eye on things. Show him how reliable you are, deal with things well, and see how it goes. There's a likelihood that you'll end up showing an apt., doing move-out cleaning, dealing with noise, etc. Then you can find out what a building duper typically gets in your area, and ask for that.
posted by theora55 at 7:31 AM on October 2, 2013
posted by theora55 at 7:31 AM on October 2, 2013
Try to see this from the landlord's point of view, because you need to consider how valuable your assistance is to him. Sure, you were going to be there anyway -- but if you hadn't helped out, the landlord would have had to be there from 8 to 5:50 (possibly taking a break between 10:30 and noon.) Don't forget that his own time and effort have value to him.
I know this isn't a solution, but it's something to take into account when you're weighing what's fair.
posted by wryly at 10:31 AM on October 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
I know this isn't a solution, but it's something to take into account when you're weighing what's fair.
posted by wryly at 10:31 AM on October 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks all. wryly's perspective is really what prompted me to ask this question: The landlord very much could have done this himself, and would have had to if I hadn't offered to help. I definitely pride myself on being a good neighbor and helping out, but this seemed to be more of a case of him foisting off something onto me just because he'd rather not do it himself (would have been a different story if he'd been out of town.)
Appreciate all responses thus far.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:03 AM on October 2, 2013
Appreciate all responses thus far.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:03 AM on October 2, 2013
If he'd hired someone to do it using a service like TaskRabbit, what would he have paid? Obviously I wouldn't ask for compensation for facilitating my own gas service upgrades, but doing the other units' at the request of the landlord is being assigned a task he would otherwise have to do himself or pay someone to do.
At the least, even if you're inclined to let him have this one free, I would let him know that next time you'll be calculating compensation based on the local going rate for this kind of "do my errands" work.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:00 PM on October 2, 2013
At the least, even if you're inclined to let him have this one free, I would let him know that next time you'll be calculating compensation based on the local going rate for this kind of "do my errands" work.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:00 PM on October 2, 2013
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posted by Jairus at 6:25 AM on October 2, 2013 [9 favorites]