Please help me to understand the drinking culture of my boyfriend
September 13, 2013 5:22 AM Subscribe
My boyfriend is german and I am spanish. We are both in our early 30s and are together for 2 years. Our relationship is good and in general we deal quite well with the fact that we come from very different cultures. However, there is a topic where we always fight. In my opinion, he drinks too much and too often beer. In his opinion, he is doing what all his friends and family are doing and he even drinks moderately compared to them. He doesn't like to get drunk every time he drinks but he likes to get boozed.
I think he likes this state where communication is just easier and he is more relaxed and less inhibited. It annoys me that in every social situation he normally drinks to reach this point (except if he is driving) and that alcohol is not the main activity, but something that accompanies all his social interaction. Also, he is quite a big guy (200 pounds) and he needs to drink quite a lot to reach this point. Normally he doesn't drink during the week but both nights at the weekend (maybe one night 6 big beers an the other 2/3) and maybe sometimes after the football match on Sunday (around 2/3 beers).
I also drink, but less often and much less compared to him. I also like to feel boozed but lately, I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself. I come from a culture where people only drink to celebrate special occasions, or when you are a teenager (just a phase). I am drinking now more often because in this culture (I live now in Germany) it is like this but I am not sure I am quite happy with it. With my boyfriend, we came to a compromise that he won't drink most of the times when we are together alone but I have to accept that he will drink when we are with other people or when he is alone with other people.
For some strange reason I still don't quite understand him and I would like to have more opinions from people that have a similar drinking culture like him, so that I can understand why is it like this. I think I grew up with the idea that drinking is something bad and can only be accepted if it is drinking together with eating and never with the intention to get drunk. I quite don't understand the "heavy social drinking" culture where I live in at the moment.
Thanks and sorry for the long post!
I think he likes this state where communication is just easier and he is more relaxed and less inhibited. It annoys me that in every social situation he normally drinks to reach this point (except if he is driving) and that alcohol is not the main activity, but something that accompanies all his social interaction. Also, he is quite a big guy (200 pounds) and he needs to drink quite a lot to reach this point. Normally he doesn't drink during the week but both nights at the weekend (maybe one night 6 big beers an the other 2/3) and maybe sometimes after the football match on Sunday (around 2/3 beers).
I also drink, but less often and much less compared to him. I also like to feel boozed but lately, I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself. I come from a culture where people only drink to celebrate special occasions, or when you are a teenager (just a phase). I am drinking now more often because in this culture (I live now in Germany) it is like this but I am not sure I am quite happy with it. With my boyfriend, we came to a compromise that he won't drink most of the times when we are together alone but I have to accept that he will drink when we are with other people or when he is alone with other people.
For some strange reason I still don't quite understand him and I would like to have more opinions from people that have a similar drinking culture like him, so that I can understand why is it like this. I think I grew up with the idea that drinking is something bad and can only be accepted if it is drinking together with eating and never with the intention to get drunk. I quite don't understand the "heavy social drinking" culture where I live in at the moment.
Thanks and sorry for the long post!
Oh, and given your boyfriend is a big guy and a regular drinker, I don't think he is likely to be getting drunk off two to three beers, even if they are pints. I assume he's drinking them relatively slowly over a couple of hours. So what you are describing is really getting a bit drunk maybe one night a week, and having alcohol but not getting drunk one or two more times. That really isn't very much, so unless you are seeing actual health consequences or if he is behaving recklessly (drinking and driving, avoiding responsibilities, being abusive), I'm not sure that you are likely to persuade him to come around to your way of thinking.
posted by lollusc at 5:37 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by lollusc at 5:37 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
There's not really much to understand. What you were each brought up with is what you consider normal. I'm british and his level of drinking sounds pretty moderate. It works out to around 22 units which is a smidge above the UK (and various other countries) guidelines on safe alcohol consumption (21 units per week for men)
You don't have to drink if you don't want to. I often go out when friends and don't drink (because I'm dieting and if I was going to blow 1k+ calories on something non-nutritious it would be on an epic dessert not booze). I drink tap water because its free and the only diet drink pubs tend to have is coke, which I don't like. Yeah, my friend's sometimes comment on it or ask why I'm not drinking but they accept my answer and its not an issue. IME reasonable 30 somethings are not going to hold it against you, so long as you're not being judgemental about their drinking.
posted by missmagenta at 5:41 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
You don't have to drink if you don't want to. I often go out when friends and don't drink (because I'm dieting and if I was going to blow 1k+ calories on something non-nutritious it would be on an epic dessert not booze). I drink tap water because its free and the only diet drink pubs tend to have is coke, which I don't like. Yeah, my friend's sometimes comment on it or ask why I'm not drinking but they accept my answer and its not an issue. IME reasonable 30 somethings are not going to hold it against you, so long as you're not being judgemental about their drinking.
posted by missmagenta at 5:41 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
My family isn't German, but probably has a similar attitude towards alcohol, and also just a genuine fondness for it--which is to say, while we don't all have the same preferences about beer/wine/cocktails, we're all kind of picky about only drinking stuff we really like to drink. And personally, I don't think that the person I am after a drink or two is a fake version of me--I just think it's me in a state of greater relaxation and less inhibition. This is not always a good thing, but for me, personally, in social contexts, it often is.
And, like, if my preferred cocktails all became completely nonalcoholic overnight, I'd still drink them. I know there are a lot of people who just plain like beer, including in my family, and probably drink less because it's alcoholic than they would if it wasn't. I have never seen a single member of my family actually drunk, and we generally family gatherings such that there's plenty of time for people to be completely sober to drive home, even though I didn't really identify it as such until I became an adult and noticed that at some point everybody switched to coffee.
On that side of the family, there is no alcoholism that I know of. The other side of my family, who I am granted not in contact with as an adult, has probably a closer attitude to yours, and has a lot more youth binge drinking, which is considerably more dangerous. I spent a period of my life drinking a bit too much to deal with my anxiety in a more general way before I got properly medicated, and that was never fun and never made me happier. The way I drink now is fun and does make me happier. If you have a vice that makes you happier and does nothing to make you less healthy or less safe, that seems like the best possible vice, to me!
(I'm confused where people are getting these totals. 6 beers one night and 2/3 another on the weekend only works out to about 8.5 or 11 if there's football.)
posted by Sequence at 5:44 AM on September 13, 2013
And, like, if my preferred cocktails all became completely nonalcoholic overnight, I'd still drink them. I know there are a lot of people who just plain like beer, including in my family, and probably drink less because it's alcoholic than they would if it wasn't. I have never seen a single member of my family actually drunk, and we generally family gatherings such that there's plenty of time for people to be completely sober to drive home, even though I didn't really identify it as such until I became an adult and noticed that at some point everybody switched to coffee.
On that side of the family, there is no alcoholism that I know of. The other side of my family, who I am granted not in contact with as an adult, has probably a closer attitude to yours, and has a lot more youth binge drinking, which is considerably more dangerous. I spent a period of my life drinking a bit too much to deal with my anxiety in a more general way before I got properly medicated, and that was never fun and never made me happier. The way I drink now is fun and does make me happier. If you have a vice that makes you happier and does nothing to make you less healthy or less safe, that seems like the best possible vice, to me!
(I'm confused where people are getting these totals. 6 beers one night and 2/3 another on the weekend only works out to about 8.5 or 11 if there's football.)
posted by Sequence at 5:44 AM on September 13, 2013
It doesn't sound to me like you boyfriend drinks excessively within the context of a drinking culture although 6 beers in any night is not moderation. 6 beers on one night + 6 beers across two other occasions is 12 beers, or about 24 units of alcohol. This assumes he doesn't drink at all during the week. Doctors tend to increase what people say they drink because most people under-report. The UK guidance is about 21-28 units a week for a man.
I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself.
For me, the quote above is quite instructive. Lots of people drink for fun and enjoy booze because it blurs out some of the humdrum of life and allows you to focus more on the moment. The key point is how much you have to drink for it to be fun and whether fun is just an amplification of how you are normally or a mask for something else.
We can't answer this for your boyfriend, but your view seems to indicate that you aren't otherwise that happy and perhaps there are things you need to discuss with your boyfriend that goes beyond the volume he is drinking and are more about what 'happy' means for you both.
posted by MuffinMan at 5:46 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself.
For me, the quote above is quite instructive. Lots of people drink for fun and enjoy booze because it blurs out some of the humdrum of life and allows you to focus more on the moment. The key point is how much you have to drink for it to be fun and whether fun is just an amplification of how you are normally or a mask for something else.
We can't answer this for your boyfriend, but your view seems to indicate that you aren't otherwise that happy and perhaps there are things you need to discuss with your boyfriend that goes beyond the volume he is drinking and are more about what 'happy' means for you both.
posted by MuffinMan at 5:46 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm 200 pounds and would be drunk from two or three beers drunk at once.
But I do not drink regularly, so my tolerance is very low. Were I to start drinking on a regular basis I likely would not get as inebriated.
I don't know if that helps address your question at all, but I thought I would throw it out there for consideration.
posted by dfriedman at 5:49 AM on September 13, 2013
But I do not drink regularly, so my tolerance is very low. Were I to start drinking on a regular basis I likely would not get as inebriated.
I don't know if that helps address your question at all, but I thought I would throw it out there for consideration.
posted by dfriedman at 5:49 AM on September 13, 2013
Oh, that's interesting. Back in high school health class, which was a million years ago, it was a beer was one unit per drink. I wonder if that's something that changed or was just plain wrong at the time. Never mind that part, then.
posted by Sequence at 5:51 AM on September 13, 2013
posted by Sequence at 5:51 AM on September 13, 2013
Some folks enjoy cocktails others don't.
When I was younger, I drank tons with my friends. Then, I just got over it. I very rarely drink now and I don't usually finish the drink. Just not my thing any more.
I have friends who at around five, open the bar. A gin and tonic or two before dinner, wine with dinner and a snooze on the sofa after dinner.
Seems a bit much to me, but to each his own.
If you're uncomfortable with it, you need to decide if it's a deal breaker for you. If this is normal in his culture, you either need to stop letting it bother you, or you need to find someone who is more in line with your values on drinking.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:52 AM on September 13, 2013
When I was younger, I drank tons with my friends. Then, I just got over it. I very rarely drink now and I don't usually finish the drink. Just not my thing any more.
I have friends who at around five, open the bar. A gin and tonic or two before dinner, wine with dinner and a snooze on the sofa after dinner.
Seems a bit much to me, but to each his own.
If you're uncomfortable with it, you need to decide if it's a deal breaker for you. If this is normal in his culture, you either need to stop letting it bother you, or you need to find someone who is more in line with your values on drinking.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:52 AM on September 13, 2013
I assume a big beer is 500ml @ 4% abv = two units on the UK standard.
posted by MuffinMan at 5:52 AM on September 13, 2013
posted by MuffinMan at 5:52 AM on September 13, 2013
German beers are not regular sized beers. In fact, it is German beers that destroyed the two-drink military lunch-limit. One German beer is often equivalent to two American beers.
posted by corb at 5:55 AM on September 13, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by corb at 5:55 AM on September 13, 2013 [6 favorites]
Would help to clarify if the beers are 500ml or 1l.
(although it doesn't make much difference, you say he's not getting drunk and he drinks less than his family and friends. It doesn't seem like you're asking us to assess/opine over how much he drinks)
posted by missmagenta at 6:07 AM on September 13, 2013
(although it doesn't make much difference, you say he's not getting drunk and he drinks less than his family and friends. It doesn't seem like you're asking us to assess/opine over how much he drinks)
posted by missmagenta at 6:07 AM on September 13, 2013
You describe your boyfriend as a pretty big guy who drinks beer regularly, so I think it's pretty unlikely that he's getting any sort of buzz off two or three beers consumed over an evening.
It also sounds like you recently decided that your consumption of alcohol was problematic for you, and had an effect on you that you did not like. However, that doesn't mean that your boyfriend is effected by alcohol the same way or has the same motivation as you for consuming alcohol.
Have you two really sat down and discussed your feelings about drinking in general? It sounds overly simplistic, but is it possible that he just thinks beer is delicious? I am not a big beer drinker, and I've spent a very brief amount of time in Germany, but when I was there I drank more beer than I normally do because it was so good.
If you are not comfortable with the amount of drinking you are doing right now, then stop. I think your boyfriend's reaction to that will be more telling than anything else.
posted by inertia at 6:08 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
It also sounds like you recently decided that your consumption of alcohol was problematic for you, and had an effect on you that you did not like. However, that doesn't mean that your boyfriend is effected by alcohol the same way or has the same motivation as you for consuming alcohol.
Have you two really sat down and discussed your feelings about drinking in general? It sounds overly simplistic, but is it possible that he just thinks beer is delicious? I am not a big beer drinker, and I've spent a very brief amount of time in Germany, but when I was there I drank more beer than I normally do because it was so good.
If you are not comfortable with the amount of drinking you are doing right now, then stop. I think your boyfriend's reaction to that will be more telling than anything else.
posted by inertia at 6:08 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is not a cultural thing, really. Some people just prefer dealing with people who aren't drunk. I'm German (bavarian, even) and would NOT be OK with that amount of drinking in my partner. Many people from my culture feel that way. It was easy for me to find a partner who feels that way, too, and we both have '1 beer with dinner' families and friends. It's not a cultural norm for Germans to have a sixpack (or as others have pointed out, more like 2-3 sixpacks converted to US measurements) every Saturday evening! I think the main problem for me is that he drinks to get drunk. That doesn't mean I 'judge' people who like to get drunk, stoned, or high, I just prefer not to be around them when they are, and if it's your partner, and he has this 'hobby' of getting drunk every weekend, that's kind of hard. Might be an incompatibility issue. Also: consider if you would be OK with your kids (if you want any) to be around drunk people every weekend. Personally, I wouldn't want that, mainly because then that would mean 100% of the childrearing would be my responsibility during that time - drunks don't make good parents, at least for babies and small kids.
As to the question, how many beers make you drunk - the legal driving limit will tell you that far less than 6 beers (even for a bigger guy) make you too drunk to drive. Maybe he doesn't show or feel it because he's used to it, but that doesn't mean he's not drunk.
posted by The Toad at 6:09 AM on September 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
As to the question, how many beers make you drunk - the legal driving limit will tell you that far less than 6 beers (even for a bigger guy) make you too drunk to drive. Maybe he doesn't show or feel it because he's used to it, but that doesn't mean he's not drunk.
posted by The Toad at 6:09 AM on September 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
Northern Europe has a long and deep seated drinking culture, dating back maybe a thousand years or more. The oldest brewery in Germany dates back to at least 1040. That culture is not going to shift in a hurry, and why should it?
There's a couple of reasons why, I think. Firstly, climate. The cold and long winters mean that people have always packed themselves into warm and cosy pubs and taverns, drinking the local beverage (beer). We don't have the luxury of being able to sit outside for 9 months of the year to eat tapas, and savour a couple of glasses of wine.
Secondly, good beer in Germany is as much of a delicacy as a good Rioja is in Spain. There are ancient laws describing what ingredients are in the beer, and how it can be brewed. Also, as beer is significantly less strong than wine, more of it is needed! It may seem odd to you seeing someone drink a massive glass of beer, but in fact it's probably got a similar alcohol content to a glass of wine.
Thanks to globalisation, pretty much any strong booze from around the world is now available for cheap in Northern Europe, perhaps contributing to the greater binge drinking and alcoholism problems that it has.
Your boyfriend's intake does not strike me at all as being a problem, or out of the ordinary however. It's such of a massive cultural difference, and I don't think you will be able to change him now!
posted by derbs at 6:21 AM on September 13, 2013
There's a couple of reasons why, I think. Firstly, climate. The cold and long winters mean that people have always packed themselves into warm and cosy pubs and taverns, drinking the local beverage (beer). We don't have the luxury of being able to sit outside for 9 months of the year to eat tapas, and savour a couple of glasses of wine.
Secondly, good beer in Germany is as much of a delicacy as a good Rioja is in Spain. There are ancient laws describing what ingredients are in the beer, and how it can be brewed. Also, as beer is significantly less strong than wine, more of it is needed! It may seem odd to you seeing someone drink a massive glass of beer, but in fact it's probably got a similar alcohol content to a glass of wine.
Thanks to globalisation, pretty much any strong booze from around the world is now available for cheap in Northern Europe, perhaps contributing to the greater binge drinking and alcoholism problems that it has.
Your boyfriend's intake does not strike me at all as being a problem, or out of the ordinary however. It's such of a massive cultural difference, and I don't think you will be able to change him now!
posted by derbs at 6:21 AM on September 13, 2013
OP, why is your boyfriend's drinking a problem for you? Do you not like how he acts when he's buzzed/drunk? Do you worry that it's bad for him? Do you not like how many excess calories he's consuming while drinking? Are you concerned about his safety while drinking, i.e. driving home (I expect not, as you said he does not do that)? I don't see anything in your question about what the problem is except for "It annoys me that in every social situation he normally drinks to reach this point (except if he is driving) and that alcohol is not the main activity, but something that accompanies all his social interaction." WHY does it annoy you?
Maybe if you can clarify what your problem is, you can figure out how to deal with it.
posted by coupdefoudre at 6:31 AM on September 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
Maybe if you can clarify what your problem is, you can figure out how to deal with it.
posted by coupdefoudre at 6:31 AM on September 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
I'm German but I am not sure if this is really a cultural problem. Some of my German friends drink no alcohol at all and others drink a lot more than me.
Are you really sure that his main intention is to get drunk? Because you also write that it is part of his social interaction. This is my thing. I like to drink and I like to drink with friends. Becoming drunk is just a side-effect (which can be nice sometimes).
It also sounds like you don't have a problem withi HIS drinking pattern but with alcohol in general when you talk about you feeling fake.
posted by jfricke at 6:38 AM on September 13, 2013
Are you really sure that his main intention is to get drunk? Because you also write that it is part of his social interaction. This is my thing. I like to drink and I like to drink with friends. Becoming drunk is just a side-effect (which can be nice sometimes).
It also sounds like you don't have a problem withi HIS drinking pattern but with alcohol in general when you talk about you feeling fake.
posted by jfricke at 6:38 AM on September 13, 2013
I think I see where the OP is coming from, as I attribute my husband's and my somewhat different attitudes toward alcohol consumption as being cultural (I was born outside the UK, he was born in the UK). And when I moved here I was fairly surprised to hear people over the age of 25 or even 35 or even 45-and-up talking about "getting pissed on Saturday night". Like it is the goal for the evening and totally acceptable outside of high school/university/early-adulthood.
As another example, my husband's standard as to what constitutes "alchoholism" is something like drinking hard liquor every day, so much so that one has difficulty holding down a job. To my mind, of course that is an alcoholic, but it need not be that extreme either. If a person feels they have to drink every day (no matter what the bevvie of choice or how much), I think that is a problem. That is, anything 'habitual' seems to me problematic.
So my husband and I have had conversations about what constitutes drinking "too much", at least in the confines of our relationship.
All of this is to say that yes, there may indeed be a cultural basis to your different attitudes. You have to try to figure out (if you can) how much of your culture may be too restrictive and how much of his culture may be too lax, perhaps by investigating health advice about drinking (e.g., identifying the recommended max units for his sex/size and staying under that most of the time). Maybe you will find out that he is well within the limits, in which case perhaps you can relax a bit more about his drinking? Or if he isn't, maybe the knowledge will encourage him to drink a bit less.
My husband has begun logging his drinking with an app that counts units. Maybe something like that could interest your boyfriend?
posted by Halo in reverse at 6:45 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
As another example, my husband's standard as to what constitutes "alchoholism" is something like drinking hard liquor every day, so much so that one has difficulty holding down a job. To my mind, of course that is an alcoholic, but it need not be that extreme either. If a person feels they have to drink every day (no matter what the bevvie of choice or how much), I think that is a problem. That is, anything 'habitual' seems to me problematic.
So my husband and I have had conversations about what constitutes drinking "too much", at least in the confines of our relationship.
All of this is to say that yes, there may indeed be a cultural basis to your different attitudes. You have to try to figure out (if you can) how much of your culture may be too restrictive and how much of his culture may be too lax, perhaps by investigating health advice about drinking (e.g., identifying the recommended max units for his sex/size and staying under that most of the time). Maybe you will find out that he is well within the limits, in which case perhaps you can relax a bit more about his drinking? Or if he isn't, maybe the knowledge will encourage him to drink a bit less.
My husband has begun logging his drinking with an app that counts units. Maybe something like that could interest your boyfriend?
posted by Halo in reverse at 6:45 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't like drinking patterns that many people feel are normal. That they are normal and work fine for others, does not mean they have to work for you. If you don't like being around buzzed people on a regular basis, this is a perfectly legitimate need and one I personally share with you. I think it's just a difference, that will not pan out for a relationship. I agree with Toad's mentioning about kids, do you want a serious relationship with this man, do you ever want kids, and if so will this behavior jive with what you would want for your family? Because these kinds of behaviors are hard to change and if this is how he likes to be, I think you should consider whether you can be happy with him as he is and plan a future that way, or whether you want to move on to someone who shares your lifestyle habits.
It doesn't have to be a bad thing that he likes things his way, and it's not a bad thing that you like things your way. I think you just have different needs. If it's really important for you to stay in this and compromise and you don't mind being out with drinkers more often than feels comfortable you might be able to work it out, but just as he probably can't just make himself like a different drinking lifestyle, you are kind of being jammed into his. If that's not working for you, you might not be able to just turn your own emotions about that off (and maybe you shouldn't?). When I'm around buzzed people I feel left out, especially if the drinking is central to the social lives of the people I'm trying to be friends with.
I kind of want some friends who are on MY level, so we can have together on the same plane if you will? I want that in a partner to. It's an ok thing to want. It's also ok to want to learn to like his way more, if you want--- or to create some boundaries around the drinking you don't like and just let him know you will be enforcing them and see if the relationship can work within that.
"I don't like going out with your friends when your drinking. I'm going to make different plans on the weekends when you like to be out drinking"
posted by xarnop at 6:49 AM on September 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
It doesn't have to be a bad thing that he likes things his way, and it's not a bad thing that you like things your way. I think you just have different needs. If it's really important for you to stay in this and compromise and you don't mind being out with drinkers more often than feels comfortable you might be able to work it out, but just as he probably can't just make himself like a different drinking lifestyle, you are kind of being jammed into his. If that's not working for you, you might not be able to just turn your own emotions about that off (and maybe you shouldn't?). When I'm around buzzed people I feel left out, especially if the drinking is central to the social lives of the people I'm trying to be friends with.
I kind of want some friends who are on MY level, so we can have together on the same plane if you will? I want that in a partner to. It's an ok thing to want. It's also ok to want to learn to like his way more, if you want--- or to create some boundaries around the drinking you don't like and just let him know you will be enforcing them and see if the relationship can work within that.
"I don't like going out with your friends when your drinking. I'm going to make different plans on the weekends when you like to be out drinking"
posted by xarnop at 6:49 AM on September 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm German too and I'd say there's definitely a cultural component to it. I grew up in Italy and when we moved back to Germany I was shocked at how normal excessive alcohol consumption is seen. Drinking does play a very different role in different societies - in (rural) Germany they'll have a Weinfest and they'll set up a Red Cross tent to treat alcohol poisoning, as an almost expected course of events. Just the prudent thing to do, right?
Never seen anything like that in southern Europe. Not that people don't drink there.
posted by dhoe at 6:55 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Never seen anything like that in southern Europe. Not that people don't drink there.
posted by dhoe at 6:55 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I also like to feel boozed but lately, I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself.
Some would argue that the happier version of yourself is the real one, and the inhibited sober version of yourself is the fake one.
posted by eas98 at 6:56 AM on September 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
Some would argue that the happier version of yourself is the real one, and the inhibited sober version of yourself is the fake one.
posted by eas98 at 6:56 AM on September 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
Everyone, the OP specifically stated her boyfriend is not getting drunk all that often.
I quite don't understand the "heavy social drinking" culture where I live in at the moment.
Well, you're begging the question. I don't think he's a "heavy drinker". Personally, I didn't understand how people can drink multiple cups of coffee per day, until I realized I'm more sensitive to caffeine than most people. I need to to project my issue with caffeine onto people who don't have it.
I'm American and the amount of alcohol you are talking about wouldn't faze me. I'm a largish guy with tolerance. It may seem a lot to you, because that amount would get you very drunk.
I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself
You're assuming this is what's happening for everyone else. Your boyfriend probably doesn't share this problem. So that's the disconnect here: you feel fake when you drink, and you're wondering why your boyfriend is okay with that. But he doesn't feel that way.
I think I grew up with the idea that drinking is something bad
I think rather than trying to understand your boyfriend's "culture" with alcohol, maybe you should try to understand yours. Why do you feel this way? What is the source of the anxiety? Are those things you should reasonably expect your boyfriend to share? If not, than you know why he doesn't treat alcohol the way you do.
posted by spaltavian at 7:16 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
I quite don't understand the "heavy social drinking" culture where I live in at the moment.
Well, you're begging the question. I don't think he's a "heavy drinker". Personally, I didn't understand how people can drink multiple cups of coffee per day, until I realized I'm more sensitive to caffeine than most people. I need to to project my issue with caffeine onto people who don't have it.
I'm American and the amount of alcohol you are talking about wouldn't faze me. I'm a largish guy with tolerance. It may seem a lot to you, because that amount would get you very drunk.
I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself
You're assuming this is what's happening for everyone else. Your boyfriend probably doesn't share this problem. So that's the disconnect here: you feel fake when you drink, and you're wondering why your boyfriend is okay with that. But he doesn't feel that way.
I think I grew up with the idea that drinking is something bad
I think rather than trying to understand your boyfriend's "culture" with alcohol, maybe you should try to understand yours. Why do you feel this way? What is the source of the anxiety? Are those things you should reasonably expect your boyfriend to share? If not, than you know why he doesn't treat alcohol the way you do.
posted by spaltavian at 7:16 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Nice! Im positively overwhelmed by your help! All your answers gave me some food for thought and I need to think a bit to answer some specific questions like what is it exactly that annoys me...I am not sure. But some points:
-The beer he drinks is 5% and normally 0.5 liters.
-He doesnt get drunk most of the times he drinks. He says he doesnt like this feeling. He gets boozed or a little bit tipsy. He says he simply likes to drink beer because of the taste and because of the effect.
-He says that this lifestyle he has now is not the lifestyle he would have if we would have kids.
-Honestly I dont want to quit the relationship because of this. I am trying to reframe my way of thinking so that I can understand him better. What does he think when he drinks?Why he doesnt think that it is bad?
posted by maggie32 at 7:17 AM on September 13, 2013
-The beer he drinks is 5% and normally 0.5 liters.
-He doesnt get drunk most of the times he drinks. He says he doesnt like this feeling. He gets boozed or a little bit tipsy. He says he simply likes to drink beer because of the taste and because of the effect.
-He says that this lifestyle he has now is not the lifestyle he would have if we would have kids.
-Honestly I dont want to quit the relationship because of this. I am trying to reframe my way of thinking so that I can understand him better. What does he think when he drinks?Why he doesnt think that it is bad?
posted by maggie32 at 7:17 AM on September 13, 2013
maybe one night 6 big beers an the other 2/3
Born and raised in the UK. I'm was around 200lbs when I was much more social back home and over here (canada) and honestly I could knock back 2-3 german beers over an evening EVERY evening and not at any point even be noticeably drunk to even (to the most part) myself to any degree. I'd know I'd had a drink and be more relaxed but not at all what most people associate with being drunk. 2-3 beers in a couple of hours would be different, but over 3-4 hours, no problem at all.
Also, where I am from, 2-3 beers is taking it easy on a full night in a pub. 4-5 is something most people (up to 30 or so) would consider something they'd do once a week.
I lived in Italy (another culture of not drinking much) and the guys I was living with were absolutely fall back astonished that I could sit there with them and drop 4 pints of beer and be completely normal. To their eyes completely unaffected. They simply couldn't comprehend it because to people that don't drink regularly, that would get them weaving and possibly slurringly drunk.
So, it sounds to me like this IS a cultural thing. Not necessarily 'All germans drink a lot' like some people are trying to defend against, but it is a subset of culture like the UK that has (what is to my mind) mild drinking whenever out being social is completely normal.
On preview, he sounds very much like me in this. So some insight from me:
I LOVE beer. Enormously. Beer is a tasty tasty drink and nothing else (except maybe wine) has the same kind of taste and enjoyment style. I would happily drive across town to the right beer store to get the fantastic stuff I loved at home. I don't like getting drunk AT ALL. If there was ever a completely non-screwed up non-alcoholic beer that tasted as good I'd buy it by the barrel, but it is all horrible - imagine you like Coke, but all you can get as an alternative is crappy tap water that really needs filtering. Ugh. My ideal evening is being able to drink as much tasty lovely beer as possible without being at all drunk or even mostly affected. Only in recent years (when I have cut down in my 40's because I am getting fat) have I been unable to drink three beers without even feeling the effects at all. Now the 3rd beer is something I can feel, but I've not had one person been able to tell I'd had three beers when I was drinking at the kind of level you are referring to. I had people astonished I wouldn't drive home (especially when I got to the US, actually) because they thought I was completely fine.
TL:DR: if he is drinking regularly, 2-3 beers and 200lbs guy is, to my mind, really nothing at all in terms of beer. It's hard for you to understand that if you don't drink regularly as you will be affected by that volume about an order of magnitude more noticeably. Don't compare you on three beers to him on three beers. For someone that drinks 2-3 beers regularly, 5-6 is a solid night, but not an excessive binge session. As mentioned, if there are no issues with his behaviour changing then there are no real issues with that kind of consumption. It is (again, as mentioned) even comparable to the UK government safe amount of alcohol limit.
posted by Brockles at 7:24 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Born and raised in the UK. I'm was around 200lbs when I was much more social back home and over here (canada) and honestly I could knock back 2-3 german beers over an evening EVERY evening and not at any point even be noticeably drunk to even (to the most part) myself to any degree. I'd know I'd had a drink and be more relaxed but not at all what most people associate with being drunk. 2-3 beers in a couple of hours would be different, but over 3-4 hours, no problem at all.
Also, where I am from, 2-3 beers is taking it easy on a full night in a pub. 4-5 is something most people (up to 30 or so) would consider something they'd do once a week.
I lived in Italy (another culture of not drinking much) and the guys I was living with were absolutely fall back astonished that I could sit there with them and drop 4 pints of beer and be completely normal. To their eyes completely unaffected. They simply couldn't comprehend it because to people that don't drink regularly, that would get them weaving and possibly slurringly drunk.
So, it sounds to me like this IS a cultural thing. Not necessarily 'All germans drink a lot' like some people are trying to defend against, but it is a subset of culture like the UK that has (what is to my mind) mild drinking whenever out being social is completely normal.
On preview, he sounds very much like me in this. So some insight from me:
I LOVE beer. Enormously. Beer is a tasty tasty drink and nothing else (except maybe wine) has the same kind of taste and enjoyment style. I would happily drive across town to the right beer store to get the fantastic stuff I loved at home. I don't like getting drunk AT ALL. If there was ever a completely non-screwed up non-alcoholic beer that tasted as good I'd buy it by the barrel, but it is all horrible - imagine you like Coke, but all you can get as an alternative is crappy tap water that really needs filtering. Ugh. My ideal evening is being able to drink as much tasty lovely beer as possible without being at all drunk or even mostly affected. Only in recent years (when I have cut down in my 40's because I am getting fat) have I been unable to drink three beers without even feeling the effects at all. Now the 3rd beer is something I can feel, but I've not had one person been able to tell I'd had three beers when I was drinking at the kind of level you are referring to. I had people astonished I wouldn't drive home (especially when I got to the US, actually) because they thought I was completely fine.
TL:DR: if he is drinking regularly, 2-3 beers and 200lbs guy is, to my mind, really nothing at all in terms of beer. It's hard for you to understand that if you don't drink regularly as you will be affected by that volume about an order of magnitude more noticeably. Don't compare you on three beers to him on three beers. For someone that drinks 2-3 beers regularly, 5-6 is a solid night, but not an excessive binge session. As mentioned, if there are no issues with his behaviour changing then there are no real issues with that kind of consumption. It is (again, as mentioned) even comparable to the UK government safe amount of alcohol limit.
posted by Brockles at 7:24 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
What does he think when he drinks?...
I also like to feel boozed but lately, I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself.Like a very big fraction of people (maybe even most adults in northern Europe), he feels differently to you. When he drinks he feels happier, and more relaxed, and that's good. And aside from the alcohol, beer tastes good. For him, drinking probably isn't a judgment on the times he's sober (which is the vast, vast majority of the time), or the people in his life. It doesn't mean he's unhappy in "reality".
Why he doesnt think that it is bad?Forget cultural reasons. You seem to recognize there are differences. Fine. But why do you think it's "bad", in the amounts we're talking about here?
posted by caek at 7:27 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, I said "forget culture", but this jumped out at me:
posted by caek at 7:30 AM on September 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
In my opinion, he drinks too much and too often beer."Too often beer"? Would you rather he drunk something else? All alcoholic drinks can be abused, but to begin from the assumption that beer is a "worse" drink than other alcoholic drinks might betray some socioeconomic and cultural biases that you should think about.
posted by caek at 7:30 AM on September 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
What do you do with the friends on social occasions that are too drinking-oriented for your liking? I found one of the things that got to me (non-drinker) was that those activities were always "going to have a drink with friends." I loved the SO (2-beer-on-an-outing-kinda-guy), loved the SO's friends, loved the town and the parks where picnics were, but HATED going to the bars and doing nothing but "having a drink."
To me, that was the worst part of the issue. Couldn't the activity we all do together be something more than drinking stuff of some sort and yelling over other people's conversations? Could we, like, cook or hike or do puzzles or play video games or something? FWIW, this was also in Germany.
posted by whatzit at 7:32 AM on September 13, 2013
To me, that was the worst part of the issue. Couldn't the activity we all do together be something more than drinking stuff of some sort and yelling over other people's conversations? Could we, like, cook or hike or do puzzles or play video games or something? FWIW, this was also in Germany.
posted by whatzit at 7:32 AM on September 13, 2013
Why he doesnt think that it is bad?
Why do you think that it is bad?
You're from different cultures; one of the manifestations of that difference is the approach to drinking. You haven't given any indication that his drinking is causing problems for him--no health issues, nights in the police station, missed work. You've identified some reasons why you feel bad when you drink, which seem to color your view on his drinking, and are certainly relevant if you don't want to drink and feel like your social time revolves around drinking.
If his drinking is "bad," it seems (in context) only to be bad because of how you feel. That's not invalidating, but I think it forces you to frame the discussion with him differently than you've framed it here.
Best of luck.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:33 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Why do you think that it is bad?
You're from different cultures; one of the manifestations of that difference is the approach to drinking. You haven't given any indication that his drinking is causing problems for him--no health issues, nights in the police station, missed work. You've identified some reasons why you feel bad when you drink, which seem to color your view on his drinking, and are certainly relevant if you don't want to drink and feel like your social time revolves around drinking.
If his drinking is "bad," it seems (in context) only to be bad because of how you feel. That's not invalidating, but I think it forces you to frame the discussion with him differently than you've framed it here.
Best of luck.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:33 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
No one, alcoholic or not, accurate or not, likes to be told that they're drinking too much.
At it's core, it's an unnecessary, selfish "good times" endeavor, harmless for most, but selfish nevertheless. It's a mental visit to a water park, a piece of brain candy, or whatever. Alcohol, beer, wine, whatever, is a foul-tasting liquid, which one acquires a pleasurable taste for due to its effects. Effectively, it is a mild, socially accepted, pleasure drug.
It definitely doesn't make it bad or wrong, but when someone complains about a drinker's consumption, especially a loved one, it conflates their selfish desire to have a good time with your desire to... in your case... what, exactly?
I think this is the more important question at hand in this instance, given your beau's apparent lack of problem drinking and your stating his firm desire to not budge on this right now.
Please note it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you either... It just means that you're coming from different places here, which may indeed have something to do with your current society's acceptance of drinking, but perhaps not as much as you think. People who drink socially, weekly, daily, only at special events, etc. etc. populate every culture on this planet, and are not geographically constrained to Germany or Spain.
This type of drinking would potentially bother me in my partner for the following reasons:
1. Dismissal of my wishes (and a perceived disrespect of me).
2. Perceived "weakness" as a man (He needs alcohol to be social, therefore is somehow inadequate or lacking).
3. Fear of this (relatively unimportant) line in the sand being a precursor to future issues where he will be unwilling to budge on something that bothers me.
4. I'm not enough for him, he needs this "other" thing to truly be happy.
I don't know if any of the above ring true for you or not, but if you can have a calm, friendly, and open discussion about your own honest fears about his drinking, and he can communicate back to you in a frank and friendly manner, many of your fears may simply evaporate from talking about them (whether they end up being laughable or not), or you can gain better understanding as to why he drinks which likely goes deeper than the "I'm a German!" line you've been getting.
Because, he likely drinks (and is unwilling to say, as I would be to my SO) because it feels good. Period. How can one have that particular discussion without seeming like an asshole? You can't. Which is likely why he relegates to the "I'm German!" adage. But, that doesn't necessarily make him an asshole, because I do things that feel good which my wife may not understand all the time (video games, working on cars, roaming around Home Depot), and she does plenty of things that feel good to her which I just don't get. We sometimes do them together because we love each other, and our relative happiness means more to the other than a misunderstanding or mild disapproval of the other's activity.
posted by Debaser626 at 7:40 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
At it's core, it's an unnecessary, selfish "good times" endeavor, harmless for most, but selfish nevertheless. It's a mental visit to a water park, a piece of brain candy, or whatever. Alcohol, beer, wine, whatever, is a foul-tasting liquid, which one acquires a pleasurable taste for due to its effects. Effectively, it is a mild, socially accepted, pleasure drug.
It definitely doesn't make it bad or wrong, but when someone complains about a drinker's consumption, especially a loved one, it conflates their selfish desire to have a good time with your desire to... in your case... what, exactly?
I think this is the more important question at hand in this instance, given your beau's apparent lack of problem drinking and your stating his firm desire to not budge on this right now.
Please note it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you either... It just means that you're coming from different places here, which may indeed have something to do with your current society's acceptance of drinking, but perhaps not as much as you think. People who drink socially, weekly, daily, only at special events, etc. etc. populate every culture on this planet, and are not geographically constrained to Germany or Spain.
This type of drinking would potentially bother me in my partner for the following reasons:
1. Dismissal of my wishes (and a perceived disrespect of me).
2. Perceived "weakness" as a man (He needs alcohol to be social, therefore is somehow inadequate or lacking).
3. Fear of this (relatively unimportant) line in the sand being a precursor to future issues where he will be unwilling to budge on something that bothers me.
4. I'm not enough for him, he needs this "other" thing to truly be happy.
I don't know if any of the above ring true for you or not, but if you can have a calm, friendly, and open discussion about your own honest fears about his drinking, and he can communicate back to you in a frank and friendly manner, many of your fears may simply evaporate from talking about them (whether they end up being laughable or not), or you can gain better understanding as to why he drinks which likely goes deeper than the "I'm a German!" line you've been getting.
Because, he likely drinks (and is unwilling to say, as I would be to my SO) because it feels good. Period. How can one have that particular discussion without seeming like an asshole? You can't. Which is likely why he relegates to the "I'm German!" adage. But, that doesn't necessarily make him an asshole, because I do things that feel good which my wife may not understand all the time (video games, working on cars, roaming around Home Depot), and she does plenty of things that feel good to her which I just don't get. We sometimes do them together because we love each other, and our relative happiness means more to the other than a misunderstanding or mild disapproval of the other's activity.
posted by Debaser626 at 7:40 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Why he doesnt think that it is bad?
Because nothing he perceives as bad happens?
posted by telophase at 7:55 AM on September 13, 2013 [6 favorites]
Because nothing he perceives as bad happens?
posted by telophase at 7:55 AM on September 13, 2013 [6 favorites]
I also drink, but less often and much less compared to him. I also like to feel boozed but lately, I was coming to the point to realize that all my interaction when I am talking with other people is fake, because I am not really myself, but a happier version of myself.
I think this is the core of it. To summarize: your boyfriend drinks, you drink, you drink at a different rate than him and you're concerned about his rate, but also you feel that in social situations as of late that booze is always involved and you feel less authentic as a result.
Given the above, I think you first want to address your own demon (probably too harsh a word in this context) before tackling the perceived problem of your boyfriend's rate of consumption. It's entirely possible to enjoy social situations without booze. Bring a bottle of sparkling water to events and nurse it, or dilute your existing consumption with the sparkling water, see how you do with that. Don't preach to your boyfriend, but if he asks let him know that you're trying to maintain the real you and not the booze you at events.
Once you're at a comfortable level with yourself, reassess how your boyfriend is doing. Things might rub off a bit without you needing to ask/intervene, if not then use your own success as an example of how your boyfriend can tone his consumption down. Be the change you wish to see in others and all that.
posted by furtive at 8:14 AM on September 13, 2013
I think this is the core of it. To summarize: your boyfriend drinks, you drink, you drink at a different rate than him and you're concerned about his rate, but also you feel that in social situations as of late that booze is always involved and you feel less authentic as a result.
Given the above, I think you first want to address your own demon (probably too harsh a word in this context) before tackling the perceived problem of your boyfriend's rate of consumption. It's entirely possible to enjoy social situations without booze. Bring a bottle of sparkling water to events and nurse it, or dilute your existing consumption with the sparkling water, see how you do with that. Don't preach to your boyfriend, but if he asks let him know that you're trying to maintain the real you and not the booze you at events.
Once you're at a comfortable level with yourself, reassess how your boyfriend is doing. Things might rub off a bit without you needing to ask/intervene, if not then use your own success as an example of how your boyfriend can tone his consumption down. Be the change you wish to see in others and all that.
posted by furtive at 8:14 AM on September 13, 2013
Alcohol, beer, wine, whatever, is a foul-tasting liquid, which one acquires a pleasurable taste for due to its effects.
This is absolutely not true for all people and a gross generalisation and has coloured your answer much the same way as a different perspective on alcohol has created confusion in understanding of her SO for the original poster. Particularly when you only see drinking as a 'selfish' endeavour whereas to the people that like the taste, it is no more selfish than eating a chocolate bar would be. Or choosing coke over Pepsi. Or chossing bottled water over tap water.
Because, he likely drinks (and is unwilling to say, as I would be to my SO) because it feels good. Period.
If you are unable to understand that people drink beer because they like the taste of it then this is why, I suspect, you feel justified in making such definitive-sounding statements that are - to people like me who seem to be of a mind with the SO here - make absolutely no sense whatsoever and do not reflect many people's reality.
Someone that drinks 'just for the effects' would drink any booze, preferably the strongest. I suspect the SO in question shows an affinity for a particular beer or style of beer (much as I do). Your entire answer pivots on an assumption (alcohol tastes bad) that is absolutely not a universal truth.
posted by Brockles at 8:21 AM on September 13, 2013 [12 favorites]
This is absolutely not true for all people and a gross generalisation and has coloured your answer much the same way as a different perspective on alcohol has created confusion in understanding of her SO for the original poster. Particularly when you only see drinking as a 'selfish' endeavour whereas to the people that like the taste, it is no more selfish than eating a chocolate bar would be. Or choosing coke over Pepsi. Or chossing bottled water over tap water.
Because, he likely drinks (and is unwilling to say, as I would be to my SO) because it feels good. Period.
If you are unable to understand that people drink beer because they like the taste of it then this is why, I suspect, you feel justified in making such definitive-sounding statements that are - to people like me who seem to be of a mind with the SO here - make absolutely no sense whatsoever and do not reflect many people's reality.
Someone that drinks 'just for the effects' would drink any booze, preferably the strongest. I suspect the SO in question shows an affinity for a particular beer or style of beer (much as I do). Your entire answer pivots on an assumption (alcohol tastes bad) that is absolutely not a universal truth.
posted by Brockles at 8:21 AM on September 13, 2013 [12 favorites]
I come from a drinking culture similar to what they have in the UK/Germany. Personally, I'd rather hang out with someone who drinks like your boyfriend than with someone who doesn't drink at all or hardly at all (because that would make me feel uneasy/uptight). I work with a lot of people from France, and was surprised that they don't do the same kind of socializing that we do (when they say they're having a glass of wine, they actually mean *1* glass!!). Hence, I don't usually form social relationships very easily with those people.
If I were in your position I don't know if I'd be able to even get into a relationship where the norms/social values of alcohol consumption are so different. To me, substances are an area where couples need to align, at least roughly, in order to really establish trust in the other person's judgment. Maybe I'm superficial though.
posted by gohabsgo at 8:24 AM on September 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
If I were in your position I don't know if I'd be able to even get into a relationship where the norms/social values of alcohol consumption are so different. To me, substances are an area where couples need to align, at least roughly, in order to really establish trust in the other person's judgment. Maybe I'm superficial though.
posted by gohabsgo at 8:24 AM on September 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
What does he think when he drinks?Why he doesnt think that it is bad?
By "bad" do you mean undesireable or immoral or what?
I agree with spaltavian that you need to delve into your own feelings, not your boyfriend's. That feeling you have that your interactions are not real when you are drinking-- I get that. Alcohol affects people differently and a lot of people can drink a couple of times a week and be normal. For other people, alcohol is like a subtle (or not so subtle) poison. If you sense that alcohol is something you need to stay away from, by all means honor that. But managing other people's drinking does not work and neither does trying to get them to feel a different way about drinking. You may indeed not want to be involved with someone who drinks on the weekends, and that's fine. But you're not going to change your boyfriend.
(I have no idea whether your boyfriend has a problem, by the way. It's not how much or how often you drink that signals whether you have a problem, in my opinion; it's how it affects you.)
posted by BibiRose at 8:39 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
By "bad" do you mean undesireable or immoral or what?
I agree with spaltavian that you need to delve into your own feelings, not your boyfriend's. That feeling you have that your interactions are not real when you are drinking-- I get that. Alcohol affects people differently and a lot of people can drink a couple of times a week and be normal. For other people, alcohol is like a subtle (or not so subtle) poison. If you sense that alcohol is something you need to stay away from, by all means honor that. But managing other people's drinking does not work and neither does trying to get them to feel a different way about drinking. You may indeed not want to be involved with someone who drinks on the weekends, and that's fine. But you're not going to change your boyfriend.
(I have no idea whether your boyfriend has a problem, by the way. It's not how much or how often you drink that signals whether you have a problem, in my opinion; it's how it affects you.)
posted by BibiRose at 8:39 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
What stood out to me is this, emphasis mine:
in every social situation he normally drinks to reach this point (except if he is driving)
That's a healthy, responsible attitude to have, and the fact he's both aware of his limits and does indeed respect them, seems to say he's on the mature side when it comes to drinking.
As a point of comparison, I'm in France and had an ex who drank to get drunk, as did his group of friends, including when he knew he was going to drive. (His friends did not drive when drunk. However, they also let him drive drunk without any criticism whatsoever. Really dangerous, but that's another story.)
Culture doesn't play as big a part as many people think; individuals have their own cultures. It sounds like your boyfriend is aware and responsible. If you're still not comfortable with the drinking, that's okay too, everyone's different, as others have said.
posted by fraula at 8:54 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
in every social situation he normally drinks to reach this point (except if he is driving)
That's a healthy, responsible attitude to have, and the fact he's both aware of his limits and does indeed respect them, seems to say he's on the mature side when it comes to drinking.
As a point of comparison, I'm in France and had an ex who drank to get drunk, as did his group of friends, including when he knew he was going to drive. (His friends did not drive when drunk. However, they also let him drive drunk without any criticism whatsoever. Really dangerous, but that's another story.)
Culture doesn't play as big a part as many people think; individuals have their own cultures. It sounds like your boyfriend is aware and responsible. If you're still not comfortable with the drinking, that's okay too, everyone's different, as others have said.
posted by fraula at 8:54 AM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Another German chiming in. What fraula says. The fact that he restricts himself to weekends and doesn't drink when driving means that he chooses, as opposed to being swept away...Coming from a culture where beer ingestion is not stigmatized (whereas uncontrolled drunkenness is), I totally get him, although more than three large German beers would be over the top for me, unless I've been hiking in the mountains (the beers one can drink after a good hike...)
posted by Namlit at 9:01 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Namlit at 9:01 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am trying to reframe my way of thinking so that I can understand him better. What does he think when he drinks?Why he doesnt think that it is bad?
There is a non-judgmental, open-minded way that you can talk to your boyfriend about this, and I think it'd be far more fruitful than polling the internet.
posted by sm1tten at 10:48 AM on September 13, 2013
There is a non-judgmental, open-minded way that you can talk to your boyfriend about this, and I think it'd be far more fruitful than polling the internet.
posted by sm1tten at 10:48 AM on September 13, 2013
I'm 6'3" and about 280 lbs - 2-3 beers, even proper pints or larger, will maybe get me a buzz, depending on alc content, but certainly nowhere near drunk...
posted by stenseng at 10:48 AM on September 13, 2013
posted by stenseng at 10:48 AM on September 13, 2013
Being around tipsy people irritates me because I feel like they are being fake. They also tend to be loud and laugh non-stop. I think of these people are selfish jerks.
I think a way to re-frame beliefs like mine would be to imagine they are just relaxing and blowing off steam from the week. My way of relaxing is to read, while theirs is to drink. There's nothing wrong with relaxing. They are choosing to relax in a different way than I relax.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:56 PM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think a way to re-frame beliefs like mine would be to imagine they are just relaxing and blowing off steam from the week. My way of relaxing is to read, while theirs is to drink. There's nothing wrong with relaxing. They are choosing to relax in a different way than I relax.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:56 PM on September 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm coming back in to add another perspective. While I'm more on your boyfriend's side of the fence than yours, I did once stop drinking for six months while on a medication that reacted badly with alcohol. It turned out that I also stopped being interested in going to most social gatherings with my friends during that time, because I found their level of relaxation and humour irritating when I wasn't mildly buzzed myself. I would sit there feeling kind of stressed about my work week and about Important Issues In the News and no one wanted to engage with any of that stuff. Instead they were just... happy. And I wasn't. It did feel a bit like they were being fake, because when I'd see them at work they were more serious and not having so much fun. And it also made me feel even more grumpy in comparison to them. Like, my seriousness and slight stress seemed normal when I was on my own, but problematic when put into sharp relief next to everyone who was relaxed and smiling. I should note that these are not occasions where anyone gets drunk. Most people would have two or three glasses of wine over a full evening, with food as well.
So I do see where you are coming from. And I don't know that there is a great solution. You could try to work on feeling more relaxed and silly at social occasions even when sober. Or you could try and make more friends who don't drink at all and get them to tag along so you have seriousness buddies. Or you could try to convince yourself to not see the buzzed people around you as being fake. Like my music analogy before, I don't think they really are fake. If someone feels slightly more relaxed and happy because cheerful music is playing in the background, is that inauthentic? Or is that another aspect of their true selves, that it is nice to be able to access so easily? And if it is inauthentic, does that mean we should only ever listen to music that matches our exact pre-existing mood already?
(Incidentally, I think caek's response to "drinks too much and too often beer" is based on a misunderstanding. The OP is not a native English speaker, and I think they were probably meaning to express something like "drinks (beer) too much and too often" but made a word order mistake. Putting "beer" at the end was probably meant to express that it was parenthetical, i.e. the key point was that "he drinks too much and too often, incidentally, what he drinks is beer.")
posted by lollusc at 9:08 PM on September 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
So I do see where you are coming from. And I don't know that there is a great solution. You could try to work on feeling more relaxed and silly at social occasions even when sober. Or you could try and make more friends who don't drink at all and get them to tag along so you have seriousness buddies. Or you could try to convince yourself to not see the buzzed people around you as being fake. Like my music analogy before, I don't think they really are fake. If someone feels slightly more relaxed and happy because cheerful music is playing in the background, is that inauthentic? Or is that another aspect of their true selves, that it is nice to be able to access so easily? And if it is inauthentic, does that mean we should only ever listen to music that matches our exact pre-existing mood already?
(Incidentally, I think caek's response to "drinks too much and too often beer" is based on a misunderstanding. The OP is not a native English speaker, and I think they were probably meaning to express something like "drinks (beer) too much and too often" but made a word order mistake. Putting "beer" at the end was probably meant to express that it was parenthetical, i.e. the key point was that "he drinks too much and too often, incidentally, what he drinks is beer.")
posted by lollusc at 9:08 PM on September 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
He's obviously had this habit since you started dating. Why is this suddenly a problem now?
posted by discopolo at 5:49 PM on September 14, 2013
posted by discopolo at 5:49 PM on September 14, 2013
Response by poster: I wanted to thank everybody for their answers. They have been very useful and I havent replied before because I wanted to take some time to reflect on the answers that were given to me.
Some people suggested that I could talk in a non-judgemental way with him. That might be a bit too late for that, as we already talked about the topic several times and we are unable to understand each other. He says that this is his culture and what his family/friends do and that it is absolutely nothing to worry about. He says I am trying to change him and in the beginning he showed some resistance to adjust to me, because he felt controlled and judged which I understand. However, since the last big fight about this topic (and seeing that is really affecting our relationship), I said to him that we needed to find a compromise and said that I wanted him not to drink (or very little) when he was with me most of the time. And that I would have to accept that when he socializes, he will drink socially (and this happens normally 2/3 times per week or more often, for example during holidays or special events like the European Football Cup). He grew up in an area where the way to socialize is to have some beers and he never even thought that what he was doing was not so "normal" until I brought up the issue. He has followed his promise and hasnt drink much around me which is great. However, I am still conflicted with my part of the terms, where I have to accept his drinking when he is not around me, specially now that the Christmas season is coming.
I am still not sure about why I dont like that he drinks socially and specially why I feel anxiety about this. I call it social drinking because although it is not moderate, normally he doesnt get drunk and if this happens, it is not intentional as he says he doesnt enjoy being drunk, but that he likes to be in the state where he is "communicative and happy". Something inside me tells me that drinking socially every time you are with people (which means that alcohol is affecting you somehow, maybe just relaxing you or being less inhibited) is just plain wrong. That it is not healthy, not normal...that you are not being really "yourself" and I am not sure if I can accept it for my partner.
However, on the other hand, I dont want that our otherwise nice relationship (is the only topic where we think very differently), has to end because of this. Because I am very aware that he wont change and neither I want that. This is part of who he is...and I feel horrible for not being able to accept it. I know that one should accept the partner unconditionally...I feel very troubled and have been thinking about this for a while already and I dont want to bring it up with him again as I am very aware that it is a decision I have to make by myself and I am not able to do it. Its either accept it or leave. I dont want to leave so I thought that to be able to accept it, I had to ask other people to understand him, that is why I wrote here.
Thanks again for reading this long post
posted by maggie32 at 7:03 AM on December 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Some people suggested that I could talk in a non-judgemental way with him. That might be a bit too late for that, as we already talked about the topic several times and we are unable to understand each other. He says that this is his culture and what his family/friends do and that it is absolutely nothing to worry about. He says I am trying to change him and in the beginning he showed some resistance to adjust to me, because he felt controlled and judged which I understand. However, since the last big fight about this topic (and seeing that is really affecting our relationship), I said to him that we needed to find a compromise and said that I wanted him not to drink (or very little) when he was with me most of the time. And that I would have to accept that when he socializes, he will drink socially (and this happens normally 2/3 times per week or more often, for example during holidays or special events like the European Football Cup). He grew up in an area where the way to socialize is to have some beers and he never even thought that what he was doing was not so "normal" until I brought up the issue. He has followed his promise and hasnt drink much around me which is great. However, I am still conflicted with my part of the terms, where I have to accept his drinking when he is not around me, specially now that the Christmas season is coming.
I am still not sure about why I dont like that he drinks socially and specially why I feel anxiety about this. I call it social drinking because although it is not moderate, normally he doesnt get drunk and if this happens, it is not intentional as he says he doesnt enjoy being drunk, but that he likes to be in the state where he is "communicative and happy". Something inside me tells me that drinking socially every time you are with people (which means that alcohol is affecting you somehow, maybe just relaxing you or being less inhibited) is just plain wrong. That it is not healthy, not normal...that you are not being really "yourself" and I am not sure if I can accept it for my partner.
However, on the other hand, I dont want that our otherwise nice relationship (is the only topic where we think very differently), has to end because of this. Because I am very aware that he wont change and neither I want that. This is part of who he is...and I feel horrible for not being able to accept it. I know that one should accept the partner unconditionally...I feel very troubled and have been thinking about this for a while already and I dont want to bring it up with him again as I am very aware that it is a decision I have to make by myself and I am not able to do it. Its either accept it or leave. I dont want to leave so I thought that to be able to accept it, I had to ask other people to understand him, that is why I wrote here.
Thanks again for reading this long post
posted by maggie32 at 7:03 AM on December 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Something inside me tells me that drinking socially every time you are with people (which means that alcohol is affecting you somehow, maybe just relaxing you or being less inhibited) is just plain wrong.
This is the part of your post that I find most troubling, and something that moves me to suggest the problem is very much you and not him. You may have got to that conclusion already. If this is a deal breaker for you, then you need to find someone who agrees with your (unusual and unreasonable to any social norms I have been exposed to in several countries) particular perspective. I don't see how forcing that on your SO is at all reasonable.
That it is not healthy, not normal...that you are not being really "yourself"
I think you need to look at why you think this way. Beer at the levels your SO drinks would not affect me even one little bit nor make any difference at all to my personality. It would affect my suitability to drive, but that's pretty much it. You seem unable to fathom or comprehend that possibility. I'm intrigued that you can't make that understanding, but again, I think it is your lack of understanding rather than an underlying 'truth' of the situation.
posted by Brockles at 7:41 AM on December 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is the part of your post that I find most troubling, and something that moves me to suggest the problem is very much you and not him. You may have got to that conclusion already. If this is a deal breaker for you, then you need to find someone who agrees with your (unusual and unreasonable to any social norms I have been exposed to in several countries) particular perspective. I don't see how forcing that on your SO is at all reasonable.
That it is not healthy, not normal...that you are not being really "yourself"
I think you need to look at why you think this way. Beer at the levels your SO drinks would not affect me even one little bit nor make any difference at all to my personality. It would affect my suitability to drive, but that's pretty much it. You seem unable to fathom or comprehend that possibility. I'm intrigued that you can't make that understanding, but again, I think it is your lack of understanding rather than an underlying 'truth' of the situation.
posted by Brockles at 7:41 AM on December 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
OP, it really doesn't seem like you have considered your own feelings or care to. You are causing yourself and your boyfriend a lot of grief over a judgmental feeling you refuse to deal with. I don't think either of you are ultimately going to be happy together. Maybe you need to find someone who shares your feelings with alcohol, because even when you "compromise" on this issue, you are still unhappy.
posted by spaltavian at 9:29 AM on December 11, 2013
posted by spaltavian at 9:29 AM on December 11, 2013
I think, especially if you want this relationship to have legs, you need to really explore why you feel the way that you do about drinking, and whether your conclusions are valid in regards to your boyfriend's drinking.
The fact that you have forced a compromise that doesn't actually satisfy you makes it seem rather unlikely that your relationship can survive this incompatibility unless you actually meet him halfway in both thought and conduct (and he reciprocates).
While I am not in agreement with your perspective, it's yours to have and there are others out there who share it. I really encourage you to keep thinking about this whole thing, as opposed to just "accept it or leave." Best of luck to you.
posted by sm1tten at 8:05 PM on December 11, 2013
The fact that you have forced a compromise that doesn't actually satisfy you makes it seem rather unlikely that your relationship can survive this incompatibility unless you actually meet him halfway in both thought and conduct (and he reciprocates).
While I am not in agreement with your perspective, it's yours to have and there are others out there who share it. I really encourage you to keep thinking about this whole thing, as opposed to just "accept it or leave." Best of luck to you.
posted by sm1tten at 8:05 PM on December 11, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you want to try to see it from his perspective, think about an analogy with something judgement-free that you like at social interactions. E.g maybe music. Imagine if someone from another culture said they had grown up thinking music was bad, and only for special celebrations, and that it definitely shouldn't lead to dancing. And now they are confronted with situations where music is played at almost every social event, at least in the background, and where people think that dancing is absolutely okay. All right, so how do you engage with that person? This is your boyfriend's dilemma.
For some people, being a little bit tipsy makes social interaction easier, maybe because they are otherwise quite shy or self conscious. Or if they have a lot of stress during the week at work, and drink socially in the weekends, that's a way of helping them feel like the weekends are really a different "zone" for them.
Maybe those thoughts help you a little bit to see how your boyfriend and other Germans might see drinking. I'm not sure exactly what your question is, though. Can you clarify a little more?
posted by lollusc at 5:33 AM on September 13, 2013 [10 favorites]