Ok to self-diagnose your dog ?
September 9, 2013 4:01 PM Subscribe
Pretty darn certain my puppy has ear-mites in his right ear. Where should I draw the line at Internet diagnosis and ordering meds off the Internet vs a costly trip to the vet?
My 4 month old pup has nasty black nastiness in his ear. All Internet signs point to mites. A cursory search shows several sites offering ear drops for $15. Significantly cheaper than a trip to the vet. I'm very tempted to skip a step and play amateur vet and taking a chance on side effects.
But Fin also needs heart worm/worm/flea pills (or does he?). The internet is again significantly cheaper than going through my vet who pushed trifexis on us (at over double the price I found online)
I thrive on reading up on things, at what point is it ok to trust random dog issues to the Internet vs bringing him in for a costly vet visit?
My 4 month old pup has nasty black nastiness in his ear. All Internet signs point to mites. A cursory search shows several sites offering ear drops for $15. Significantly cheaper than a trip to the vet. I'm very tempted to skip a step and play amateur vet and taking a chance on side effects.
But Fin also needs heart worm/worm/flea pills (or does he?). The internet is again significantly cheaper than going through my vet who pushed trifexis on us (at over double the price I found online)
I thrive on reading up on things, at what point is it ok to trust random dog issues to the Internet vs bringing him in for a costly vet visit?
Can you confidently distinguish between earmites vs skin allergies + gunk? Because the latter was what turned out to be wrong with one of my cats when I believed the former. Bacterial infections can also look like earmites. If gentle ear cleaning isn't working, you are probably better off taking your dog to the vet to determine what's up.
When you visit the vet, explain that money is an issue and ask that the vet explain to you during the visit how much particular exams will cost and whether they can be skipped or delayed. You are not required to purchase prescribed drugs from your vet. If you like, ask (insist!) for a prescription from your vet you can use to order from the Internet.
Do you live in/near a major metro area? When I was broke I had success taking my cat to low-cost vet clinics held by animal societies in my city.
posted by nicebookrack at 4:20 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
When you visit the vet, explain that money is an issue and ask that the vet explain to you during the visit how much particular exams will cost and whether they can be skipped or delayed. You are not required to purchase prescribed drugs from your vet. If you like, ask (insist!) for a prescription from your vet you can use to order from the Internet.
Do you live in/near a major metro area? When I was broke I had success taking my cat to low-cost vet clinics held by animal societies in my city.
posted by nicebookrack at 4:20 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
1) My dog just had a mild ear infection (not mites) and the amount I was charged for the drops (plenty enough to treat if it ever comes back in the future) was $32. Only $17 more and I got exactly what my dog needed, with no guesswork.
2) Look into Sentinel instead of Trifexis. I went to the vet for our last checkup specifically asking about Trifexis, and she said that Sentinel was basically the same thing but half the price, so unless I was really tied to the Trifexis I should just use Sentinel. If you are unhappy with your vet, seek out another one.
3) You need to take your dog in for regular checkups. I would not have caught the ear infection on my own; my vet had to swab for it. I thought the little dude just had excessive ear wax despite my regular and diligent cleaning. Nope. Turns out I am not a dog genius. Please go to the vet.
4) Look into Care Credit.
posted by phunniemee at 4:28 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
2) Look into Sentinel instead of Trifexis. I went to the vet for our last checkup specifically asking about Trifexis, and she said that Sentinel was basically the same thing but half the price, so unless I was really tied to the Trifexis I should just use Sentinel. If you are unhappy with your vet, seek out another one.
3) You need to take your dog in for regular checkups. I would not have caught the ear infection on my own; my vet had to swab for it. I thought the little dude just had excessive ear wax despite my regular and diligent cleaning. Nope. Turns out I am not a dog genius. Please go to the vet.
4) Look into Care Credit.
posted by phunniemee at 4:28 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh, and I should add re: my #2...
My vet was happy to sell me Sentinel at only very slightly over retail price. I asked them to please write a script, then promptly went home and ordered it on 1800PetMeds for less. Your vet should be fine with that, and if they are not, find a better vet.
posted by phunniemee at 4:31 PM on September 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
My vet was happy to sell me Sentinel at only very slightly over retail price. I asked them to please write a script, then promptly went home and ordered it on 1800PetMeds for less. Your vet should be fine with that, and if they are not, find a better vet.
posted by phunniemee at 4:31 PM on September 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Hmmm, I appreciate the responses but I don't know how to say this without being curt, so apologies. Money is NOT an issue when it comes to the health of my dog and I am in NO way trying to short-change his health due to 'money being an issue'.
BUT. Vets are expensive, and I'm reluctant to bring my guy in every time he sneezes. My question was 'where do you draw the line? at what point is it ok to trust random dog issues to the Internet vs bringing him in for a costly vet visit?"
posted by BlerpityBloop at 4:47 PM on September 9, 2013
BUT. Vets are expensive, and I'm reluctant to bring my guy in every time he sneezes. My question was 'where do you draw the line? at what point is it ok to trust random dog issues to the Internet vs bringing him in for a costly vet visit?"
posted by BlerpityBloop at 4:47 PM on September 9, 2013
I just want to chime in and say that my pup had something really similar going on--nasty black gunk all in one ear. I took him to the vet and it turned out to be seasonal allergies. The vet gave me some antibiotics and some prescription strength ear wash instead of the over the counter stuff I'd tried.
I would never have guessed allergies and my solution wasn't working.
posted by chatongriffes at 4:47 PM on September 9, 2013
I would never have guessed allergies and my solution wasn't working.
posted by chatongriffes at 4:47 PM on September 9, 2013
New "nasty black nastiness" in an orifice is always cause for a vet visit.
posted by crankylex at 4:59 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by crankylex at 4:59 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I used OTC ear mite drops for our dog because we noticed it on a Friday and the vet wasn't open until Tuesday and by the time Tuesday rolled around her ears were 80% better and completely better in a week, so I say try it and if its not looking better in a few days head to the vet and see what's up.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 5:09 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 5:09 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I used to breed and show guinea pigs when I was younger. It was very common practice for minor, routine things to be treated by the breeders themselves. However anything that needed treating by a vet was always treated by a vet. Also there was a tremendous amount of knowledge amongst the breeders, so there was always someone to ask if you were unsure. In fact often the old breeders used to know more than the vets about certain things. So if you have seen symptoms before and know exactly what it is and what the treatment is then go and treat it yourself. Also as julie_of_the_jungle says, if you can't get to the vets quickly then treating something yourself until you get to the vets can help to reduce the symptoms and discomfort for your animal until you get them there.
Also vets don't alwasy get it right. When I took my guinea pigs to the vets just after I got them the vet immediately treated them for mites. She didn't take a skin scraping to check for mange, just gave an injection. It turned out that they had a fungle infection which I diagnosed using photos of the symptoms online. I got the dip I needed online and after a few weeks it was all cleared up. However dogs are slightly different. Vets see a lot more dogs than guinea pigs, so their knowledge should be better.
posted by Ranting Prophet of DOOM! at 5:18 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also vets don't alwasy get it right. When I took my guinea pigs to the vets just after I got them the vet immediately treated them for mites. She didn't take a skin scraping to check for mange, just gave an injection. It turned out that they had a fungle infection which I diagnosed using photos of the symptoms online. I got the dip I needed online and after a few weeks it was all cleared up. However dogs are slightly different. Vets see a lot more dogs than guinea pigs, so their knowledge should be better.
posted by Ranting Prophet of DOOM! at 5:18 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I self treat some things with my pets, I spent a lot of time on farms in my teen years and farmers get very confident at treating certain conditions because they've seen them before and because overheads are narrow and maybe some of that confidence rubbed off on me.
Also maybe because I am used to small town country vets, but I find vets in the US to treat for a lot of things I used to treat for myself back in Australia, often times just buying the medicine needed from the local vet.
I personally would treat for mites before taking the dog in, but I would want to be sure it was mites, so if your dog has had it before and you've seen the symptoms in your dog before I would self treat without a second thought. However if you are not sure 100% sure then trip to your vets could save time and money in the long run as you get the right meds first go.
Now as to your comments about worming etc. If your dog has had a heartworm test AND you have kept up with the monthly heartworm tablets you do not need a yearly heartworm test. You do need to heart worm monthly heart worm tablets should be used to kill "baby" worms and if they are used with adult worms present can be dangerous to the dog, thus the blood tests as dogs have to be treated differently if they have adult (test positive) for heartworms. My US vet did say when asked directly that you only have to give the tablets when mosquitoes are active if you live in an area with really cold winters so talk to your vet about that as it might depend on where you are.
Worming for more "normal" worms is simply a tablet, you should be able to just buy it at the vets and give it yourself, I like to buy from the vet as I worry about ingredients in the cheaper online worming tablets, which ties into flea treatments, be careful about those, my SIL managed a pet shop for 5 years and the horror stories she told me about dogs fitting, getting chemical burns and in one case dying from cheap "supermarket" flea drops and their nasty ingredients gave me nightmares. Her store would only carry Frontline and Advantage for those reasons.
If you live in an area where ticks and Lyme disease are not a problem you can of course not treat for fleas until you see a problem if you are looking to minimize chemical exposure but regular treatment does cut down on flea eggs etc establishing in your home. I usually only treat my dogs during tick season as we live in an area where Lyme disease can be found and I am not patient enough to remove ticks daily from my dogs.
TL;DR. I tend to self treat for conditions I've seen before or know enough to know that OTC treatments can be effective. I am always prepared to go to the vets if things don't clear up in a few days or if the animal appears to be in pain or a serious condition.
posted by wwax at 5:41 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also maybe because I am used to small town country vets, but I find vets in the US to treat for a lot of things I used to treat for myself back in Australia, often times just buying the medicine needed from the local vet.
I personally would treat for mites before taking the dog in, but I would want to be sure it was mites, so if your dog has had it before and you've seen the symptoms in your dog before I would self treat without a second thought. However if you are not sure 100% sure then trip to your vets could save time and money in the long run as you get the right meds first go.
Now as to your comments about worming etc. If your dog has had a heartworm test AND you have kept up with the monthly heartworm tablets you do not need a yearly heartworm test. You do need to heart worm monthly heart worm tablets should be used to kill "baby" worms and if they are used with adult worms present can be dangerous to the dog, thus the blood tests as dogs have to be treated differently if they have adult (test positive) for heartworms. My US vet did say when asked directly that you only have to give the tablets when mosquitoes are active if you live in an area with really cold winters so talk to your vet about that as it might depend on where you are.
Worming for more "normal" worms is simply a tablet, you should be able to just buy it at the vets and give it yourself, I like to buy from the vet as I worry about ingredients in the cheaper online worming tablets, which ties into flea treatments, be careful about those, my SIL managed a pet shop for 5 years and the horror stories she told me about dogs fitting, getting chemical burns and in one case dying from cheap "supermarket" flea drops and their nasty ingredients gave me nightmares. Her store would only carry Frontline and Advantage for those reasons.
If you live in an area where ticks and Lyme disease are not a problem you can of course not treat for fleas until you see a problem if you are looking to minimize chemical exposure but regular treatment does cut down on flea eggs etc establishing in your home. I usually only treat my dogs during tick season as we live in an area where Lyme disease can be found and I am not patient enough to remove ticks daily from my dogs.
TL;DR. I tend to self treat for conditions I've seen before or know enough to know that OTC treatments can be effective. I am always prepared to go to the vets if things don't clear up in a few days or if the animal appears to be in pain or a serious condition.
posted by wwax at 5:41 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
'where do you draw the line? at what point is it ok to trust random dog issues to the Internet vs bringing him in for a costly vet visit?"
I really don't leave random cat issues up to the internet - I suck it up and go to the vet, particularly anything that requires medicine to fix. I definitely google and try to figure out whats wrong, but all I'm really doing is preparing myself for the vet visit so that I can have an intelligent conversation about my pet's health issue.
I am extremely averse to visiting the doctor for myself, which is dumb, but I am able to get away with it because I can usually figure out what is wrong with me by typing my symptoms into google. Significantly, I can type in very precise descriptions of my level of pain or certain sensations I'm having, such as describing feelings as tingling vs. stinging vs. throbbing vs. aching. My cat, sadly, can't tell me how he feels - I can only look at his ear and see black goop. My body is my science project, but I'm not going to do trial-and-error on a creature who can't tell me, a layperson, enough details to assist me in properly diagnosing him.
posted by gatorae at 6:01 PM on September 9, 2013
I really don't leave random cat issues up to the internet - I suck it up and go to the vet, particularly anything that requires medicine to fix. I definitely google and try to figure out whats wrong, but all I'm really doing is preparing myself for the vet visit so that I can have an intelligent conversation about my pet's health issue.
I am extremely averse to visiting the doctor for myself, which is dumb, but I am able to get away with it because I can usually figure out what is wrong with me by typing my symptoms into google. Significantly, I can type in very precise descriptions of my level of pain or certain sensations I'm having, such as describing feelings as tingling vs. stinging vs. throbbing vs. aching. My cat, sadly, can't tell me how he feels - I can only look at his ear and see black goop. My body is my science project, but I'm not going to do trial-and-error on a creature who can't tell me, a layperson, enough details to assist me in properly diagnosing him.
posted by gatorae at 6:01 PM on September 9, 2013
I grew up around farms (if it matters) - most of the people I knew did their own pets' vaccinations. I treated one dog I had for ear mites. But the first time she had them I took her to a vet to be sure. The second time I just bought the medicine at a local feed store and treated it myself. Hers stank - it was a very distinctive smell, so once I knew what it was and recognized it on the return, I was fine doing the treatment myself. But like wwax says - if I weren't 100% sure, I'd play it safe with a vet trip.
As for where to draw the line - that's really something only you can answer. You do get to know your animals and their issues. Some things you go, "Oh, this again," and you just...do what you need to do to treat it. Other things, when you're thinking, "Hmm. Well it might be this, or it might be that..." it just doesn't make sense, to me, to take the risk.
posted by routergirl at 6:08 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
As for where to draw the line - that's really something only you can answer. You do get to know your animals and their issues. Some things you go, "Oh, this again," and you just...do what you need to do to treat it. Other things, when you're thinking, "Hmm. Well it might be this, or it might be that..." it just doesn't make sense, to me, to take the risk.
posted by routergirl at 6:08 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
BUT. Vets are expensive, and I'm reluctant to bring my guy in every time he sneezes. My question was 'where do you draw the line? at what point is it ok to trust random dog issues to the Internet vs bringing him in for a costly vet visit?"
While your dog is young, go to the vet and treat the first few times as learning experiences. You will get prescription meds for each condition, some of which, like ointments, will last a while, and you can reuse it in the future.
My dog is 2.5 years old, and she's our first dog. Her first year was quite awful and very expensive: ear infections, allergies, hot spots, weird bumps under her skin etc. Even though I did plenty of internet self-diagnosis, I decided to take no chances so we took her to the vet each time. While she's no longer as fragile, we're also better equipped to treat the occasional health issue. We've reused the ear drops and topical antibiotic we got from her vet, and we know now to dose her with Benadryl when she starts breaking out in hives. Unless there are behavioural changes (lethargy, vomiting, lack of appetite) or changes to her stool, we will generally observe her/self-treat for a few days before deciding if a trip to the vet is necessary.
posted by peripathetic at 6:41 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
While your dog is young, go to the vet and treat the first few times as learning experiences. You will get prescription meds for each condition, some of which, like ointments, will last a while, and you can reuse it in the future.
My dog is 2.5 years old, and she's our first dog. Her first year was quite awful and very expensive: ear infections, allergies, hot spots, weird bumps under her skin etc. Even though I did plenty of internet self-diagnosis, I decided to take no chances so we took her to the vet each time. While she's no longer as fragile, we're also better equipped to treat the occasional health issue. We've reused the ear drops and topical antibiotic we got from her vet, and we know now to dose her with Benadryl when she starts breaking out in hives. Unless there are behavioural changes (lethargy, vomiting, lack of appetite) or changes to her stool, we will generally observe her/self-treat for a few days before deciding if a trip to the vet is necessary.
posted by peripathetic at 6:41 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeast infections in the ears also manifest with black gunk and itchiness. Ear mite drops might not hurt but they won't help, either. You should probably go to a vet.
As for ordering ped meds online, well, that's fine. You can get topical flea and tick preventives without a prescription but you will need a prescription to get heartworm preventative, which is by far the most important thing you can do to ensure your dog's health. So go see a vet and ask for a paper prescription, which you can have filled anywhere.
posted by workerant at 7:11 PM on September 9, 2013
As for ordering ped meds online, well, that's fine. You can get topical flea and tick preventives without a prescription but you will need a prescription to get heartworm preventative, which is by far the most important thing you can do to ensure your dog's health. So go see a vet and ask for a paper prescription, which you can have filled anywhere.
posted by workerant at 7:11 PM on September 9, 2013
Vets are expensive
I mean, yes and no.
Yeah, things can get very extravagant very quickly. My dog has been having some behavioral issues, and some routine bloodwork (which cost under $50) showed that his thyroid was borderline. Because new research shows that low thyroid can cause behavioral problems in dogs, the vet urged me to do a thyroid test. That test cost $150 and turned out to be negative, anyway. Lesson learned, that's officially where I draw the line as a pet owner. The word "borderline". Especially when anything over $100 is involved.
It doesn't sound like your dog's ear issue is borderline. It sounds like you need to go to the vet. The cost of the visit will be very reasonable, and it's likely that any necessary medications will be as well.
Re trifexis, meh. I was all about it until my dog refused to take the pills. In fact, I think we are up for another force feeding session tonight. When this scrip is up, I'm switching him to frontline. Cheaper and less traumatic for everyone involved.
posted by Sara C. at 7:21 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I mean, yes and no.
Yeah, things can get very extravagant very quickly. My dog has been having some behavioral issues, and some routine bloodwork (which cost under $50) showed that his thyroid was borderline. Because new research shows that low thyroid can cause behavioral problems in dogs, the vet urged me to do a thyroid test. That test cost $150 and turned out to be negative, anyway. Lesson learned, that's officially where I draw the line as a pet owner. The word "borderline". Especially when anything over $100 is involved.
It doesn't sound like your dog's ear issue is borderline. It sounds like you need to go to the vet. The cost of the visit will be very reasonable, and it's likely that any necessary medications will be as well.
Re trifexis, meh. I was all about it until my dog refused to take the pills. In fact, I think we are up for another force feeding session tonight. When this scrip is up, I'm switching him to frontline. Cheaper and less traumatic for everyone involved.
posted by Sara C. at 7:21 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your question reminded me of this on Cool Tools:
"This book won’t eliminate visits to the vet, but it will reduce their number, and make you smarter when you do visit."
posted by anonymisc at 7:21 PM on September 9, 2013
"This book won’t eliminate visits to the vet, but it will reduce their number, and make you smarter when you do visit."
posted by anonymisc at 7:21 PM on September 9, 2013
I think it is worth going to the vet for what you described and as your puppy grows older, you'll learn from each visit what is vet-worthy or not. Hang in there! My first year with my dogs was full of lots of vet visits as we helped them get healthier and stronger.
I really like my vet. I am happy to buy my trifexis there because I want them to stay around and make a living too. When I first rescued my dogs, they gave me free exams and often don't charge me if it is a minor thing.
However, you should be able to get the scrip from your vet if you wish and if they won't give it to you, that's a reason to find a new vet.
PS For Sara--do you use pill pockets? I use them and the pills get gobbled up.
posted by dottiechang at 10:01 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I really like my vet. I am happy to buy my trifexis there because I want them to stay around and make a living too. When I first rescued my dogs, they gave me free exams and often don't charge me if it is a minor thing.
However, you should be able to get the scrip from your vet if you wish and if they won't give it to you, that's a reason to find a new vet.
PS For Sara--do you use pill pockets? I use them and the pills get gobbled up.
posted by dottiechang at 10:01 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I draw the line when my research and over the counter meds dont work. Our vet, a mixed rural pratice, encourages this approach.
posted by BenPens at 1:07 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by BenPens at 1:07 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
Here's the line for me-
If I'm not 100% confident in my diagnosis and there is potential for significant harm/pain if I am wrong then to the vet we go.
If I'm not 100% confident in my diagnosis, but a delay of (correct) treatment will NOT result in harm or pain then I will try the treatment for (assumed) diagnosis.
That said, the usual practice is to establish a relationship with a local vet. At 4 months, most municipalities require a rabies vax and tag which would require a vet visit, and at that point you should do all of the other recommended vaccinations and have the vet look at the ears.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 8:29 AM on September 10, 2013
If I'm not 100% confident in my diagnosis and there is potential for significant harm/pain if I am wrong then to the vet we go.
If I'm not 100% confident in my diagnosis, but a delay of (correct) treatment will NOT result in harm or pain then I will try the treatment for (assumed) diagnosis.
That said, the usual practice is to establish a relationship with a local vet. At 4 months, most municipalities require a rabies vax and tag which would require a vet visit, and at that point you should do all of the other recommended vaccinations and have the vet look at the ears.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 8:29 AM on September 10, 2013
I thought my dog had ear mites (black gunky ears, constant shaking of head, etc.) I happened to already be at the vet's for his kennel cough, so I asked her to check it out. She basically said that ear mites in dogs was much more unlikely to happen than ear mites in cats. She diagnosed a simple ear infection and recommended a $15 ear wash solution that I picked up at the pet store. All gone within a week.
My criteria for going to the vet is pretty much seeing if my dog is really uncomfortable. If I can't do something to make him feel better within 24-36 hours, I'll call the vet and consult first and decide then. I already know that each visit is a minimum of $50+ any meds or tests. Just the price of having your four-legged friend feeling better. A good vet shouldn't mind a few minutes on the phone listening to you and helping you decide whether to come in or not.
posted by HeyAllie at 12:04 PM on September 10, 2013
My criteria for going to the vet is pretty much seeing if my dog is really uncomfortable. If I can't do something to make him feel better within 24-36 hours, I'll call the vet and consult first and decide then. I already know that each visit is a minimum of $50+ any meds or tests. Just the price of having your four-legged friend feeling better. A good vet shouldn't mind a few minutes on the phone listening to you and helping you decide whether to come in or not.
posted by HeyAllie at 12:04 PM on September 10, 2013
I try to find a vet/vet office with whom I can build a relationship. A vet/vet office that will answer questions like "should I bring my dog in for this?" for free, over the phone, without seeming to be overly pushy about saying I should bring my dog in. For example, one of my dogs got fleas (in Colorado, where it is notoriously difficult to do so). I described the symptoms over the phone to my vet, she walked me through how to be sure it was fleas myself at home, and she had flea meds waiting for me at the desk that I paid a reasonable price for. Another time when we thought a dog had gotten into something, she had us call the poison control line as it was cheaper for us to do so than for us to have her do so -- that was even after we rushed over there, so we were already in the office!
You might be surprised how much info you can get from your vet over the phone. If you can't get much, you might want to shop around for vets (unless of course you have other reasons not to do so).
posted by freezer cake at 4:08 PM on September 10, 2013
You might be surprised how much info you can get from your vet over the phone. If you can't get much, you might want to shop around for vets (unless of course you have other reasons not to do so).
posted by freezer cake at 4:08 PM on September 10, 2013
« Older What are my cats trying to tell me? | How do I network when I don't know what I want Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
Vet trips and veterinary drugs are part of responsibly owning a pet; I don't think we've ever had a year without at least four visits for our dog. I'm not clear if you just begrudge the bills or if paying them is actually a hardship for you. If balancing veterinary cost against the needs of your pet is an issue you can predict now, please get pet insurance because these routine costs are nothing compared to a serious illness or injury.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:18 PM on September 9, 2013 [9 favorites]