My boyfriend said something incredibly hurtful. How do I move on?
September 5, 2013 6:45 AM Subscribe
My boyfriend and I have been together 7 months. I am female and 36; he is 28. Before our relationship, he had had very little relationship experience, and early on, he was fairly shy about holding hands and kissing in public. A few months in, became very comfortable with it. He is now extremely demonstrative, committed, and tells me frequently how much he loves and cares for me. Yesterday he told me that the reason he was squeamish about PDA early on was because of our age difference. The comment really took me aback and made me feel awful. I don't know what to do.
To add to what's above: my boyfriend is 28, but in many ways younger due to pretty tough social anxiety as a kid and young adult. A year ago he finally got proper medication for his condition and his life and outlook and everything have gotten much better. But he hasn't had a ton of relationship experience and missed out on a lot that most people learned in teenhood/early adulthood. He's trying to catch up fast.
Our relationship has been a big catalyst for that-- he has transformed pretty radically, in positive ways, in the time we've been together. He attributes a lot of this growth to me-- and thanks me constantly for my patience and understanding as he gains his footing and learns how to have a meaningful relationship. He's told me he regrets that he has to learn a lot of this relationship stuff with me-- he wasn't able to have a "trial run" before meeting me. I feel sometimes a bit like a "teacher"-- which is ok, but means I do quite a bit of "heavy lifting."
The comment he made was in the context of us talking about our age differences; he said that he used to be concerned about it, but that now it's not at all an issue. I asked what he meant, and he said that he'd had some sort of script or narrative about a future girlfriend: someone a few years younger than him, with mutual interests, etc. Then an amazing woman came into his life (me) and it didn't fit the "script" and it took him a while to get used to that, but now he's so grateful and can't imagine life without me. Then he said "Actually, that's the reason I was reluctant about PDA before."
That's where I freaked and started asking myself: What does that mean? That he was ashamed to be seen with an older woman? Is who I am some kind of "obstacle" he had to overcome? (For the record, I'm an attractive lady, and he regularly tells me I'm beautiful.) During this time when he was anxious about being public with affection, we were privately *very* affectionate, and I never doubted he was very into me.
I just feel really unsure of how to feel and what to do. On one hand, I do believe he really truly has changed and no longer thinks this way. On the other hand, he *did* think this way, and I didn't know about it, and I feel angry and sad that somehow he wasn't 100% proud and excited about me from day 1.
I've never had an experience like this before: someone confessing something that they *used* to think and no longer think-- and that thing being very very hurtful. It's in the past, but I'm dealing with it in the present. And if I had known he felt that way at the time I would have been so hurt! (Clearly, he also is not very skilled yet at thinking about how a comment might make another person feel.)
He feels guilty and terrible and started to cry when he saw how hurt I was. I feel like part of me has turned to stone or ice inside. Am I overreacting? I want to regain my warm feelings toward him, but I don't know how to think about this. Or how to proceed.
To add to what's above: my boyfriend is 28, but in many ways younger due to pretty tough social anxiety as a kid and young adult. A year ago he finally got proper medication for his condition and his life and outlook and everything have gotten much better. But he hasn't had a ton of relationship experience and missed out on a lot that most people learned in teenhood/early adulthood. He's trying to catch up fast.
Our relationship has been a big catalyst for that-- he has transformed pretty radically, in positive ways, in the time we've been together. He attributes a lot of this growth to me-- and thanks me constantly for my patience and understanding as he gains his footing and learns how to have a meaningful relationship. He's told me he regrets that he has to learn a lot of this relationship stuff with me-- he wasn't able to have a "trial run" before meeting me. I feel sometimes a bit like a "teacher"-- which is ok, but means I do quite a bit of "heavy lifting."
The comment he made was in the context of us talking about our age differences; he said that he used to be concerned about it, but that now it's not at all an issue. I asked what he meant, and he said that he'd had some sort of script or narrative about a future girlfriend: someone a few years younger than him, with mutual interests, etc. Then an amazing woman came into his life (me) and it didn't fit the "script" and it took him a while to get used to that, but now he's so grateful and can't imagine life without me. Then he said "Actually, that's the reason I was reluctant about PDA before."
That's where I freaked and started asking myself: What does that mean? That he was ashamed to be seen with an older woman? Is who I am some kind of "obstacle" he had to overcome? (For the record, I'm an attractive lady, and he regularly tells me I'm beautiful.) During this time when he was anxious about being public with affection, we were privately *very* affectionate, and I never doubted he was very into me.
I just feel really unsure of how to feel and what to do. On one hand, I do believe he really truly has changed and no longer thinks this way. On the other hand, he *did* think this way, and I didn't know about it, and I feel angry and sad that somehow he wasn't 100% proud and excited about me from day 1.
I've never had an experience like this before: someone confessing something that they *used* to think and no longer think-- and that thing being very very hurtful. It's in the past, but I'm dealing with it in the present. And if I had known he felt that way at the time I would have been so hurt! (Clearly, he also is not very skilled yet at thinking about how a comment might make another person feel.)
He feels guilty and terrible and started to cry when he saw how hurt I was. I feel like part of me has turned to stone or ice inside. Am I overreacting? I want to regain my warm feelings toward him, but I don't know how to think about this. Or how to proceed.
To me, it's one thing to have bad social anxiety. But it's quite another thing to be willing to hurt me or publicly disclam me because of it, out of concern for appearances to others. And it's one thing to have shame about oneself, but quite another to project that shame onto me or association with me.
It reminds me of middle school where I was definitely a nerd, and got bullied, but still had friends and was pretty happy. And I would reach out to other kids who didn't have friends and got bullied WAYYY worse... and sometimes they brutally rejected me in front of the "cool kids," I guess in an attempt to impress them.
I have a hard time with people who are willing to do that. Or willing to continue associating with you when they know they aren't strong enough to stop themselves from doing that. It's not the case for everyone.
In your shoes, I would be concerned about that particular kind of weakness. If he's getting stronger, and you feel more confident that it's behind him for good, I would be less concerned about it. If not... I think it might be hard for me to put out of mind. That's just me though.
posted by cairdeas at 6:54 AM on September 5, 2013 [11 favorites]
It reminds me of middle school where I was definitely a nerd, and got bullied, but still had friends and was pretty happy. And I would reach out to other kids who didn't have friends and got bullied WAYYY worse... and sometimes they brutally rejected me in front of the "cool kids," I guess in an attempt to impress them.
I have a hard time with people who are willing to do that. Or willing to continue associating with you when they know they aren't strong enough to stop themselves from doing that. It's not the case for everyone.
In your shoes, I would be concerned about that particular kind of weakness. If he's getting stronger, and you feel more confident that it's behind him for good, I would be less concerned about it. If not... I think it might be hard for me to put out of mind. That's just me though.
posted by cairdeas at 6:54 AM on September 5, 2013 [11 favorites]
It sounds to me like he had to overcome his expectations for this big relationship; it's not a reflection on you at all. He didn't know, before, that things could be as good as they are with an older woman, and had to adjust to the idea. That's all it was.
I run into the same sort of block when friends cross from one of my circles to another. "Oh, I didn't think of that."
posted by Sunburnt at 6:54 AM on September 5, 2013 [11 favorites]
I run into the same sort of block when friends cross from one of my circles to another. "Oh, I didn't think of that."
posted by Sunburnt at 6:54 AM on September 5, 2013 [11 favorites]
It may help to frame this in terms of Other People. Other People can be extremely judgmental.
It sounds like your boyfriend has been working through a lot, and growing up a lot, and my guess is that he's overcome a lot of insecurities while knowing you. Someone who is insecure is going to give a lot of weight to what Other People think (or what he thinks Other People might think). Insecurity can screw someone up pretty good (see: about half of the AskMes ever asked).
But now he's more confident than he used to, not just about your relationship but about everything, so fuck what the Other People might think.
I used to have a bunch of hangups about PDA (even something as simple as holding hands in public), which I owe to a lifetime of listening to my mom being super judgy about other people. It's had nothing to do with the guys I've dated and everything to do with me worrying about what Other People would think.
posted by phunniemee at 6:57 AM on September 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
It sounds like your boyfriend has been working through a lot, and growing up a lot, and my guess is that he's overcome a lot of insecurities while knowing you. Someone who is insecure is going to give a lot of weight to what Other People think (or what he thinks Other People might think). Insecurity can screw someone up pretty good (see: about half of the AskMes ever asked).
But now he's more confident than he used to, not just about your relationship but about everything, so fuck what the Other People might think.
I used to have a bunch of hangups about PDA (even something as simple as holding hands in public), which I owe to a lifetime of listening to my mom being super judgy about other people. It's had nothing to do with the guys I've dated and everything to do with me worrying about what Other People would think.
posted by phunniemee at 6:57 AM on September 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Yes, you're overreacting. People grow on each other, relationships evolve. When you first bump into someone, you're not going to have the same feelings for or reactions to them once you've gotten to know them. Even desires change--one can have a "type," fall for someone far from that type, and then have a new "type" based on your new relationship.
It does sound like your BF could probably use some fine tuning his communication skills, but I think you may both share some room for growth in your relationship skills and expectations.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:58 AM on September 5, 2013 [10 favorites]
It does sound like your BF could probably use some fine tuning his communication skills, but I think you may both share some room for growth in your relationship skills and expectations.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:58 AM on September 5, 2013 [10 favorites]
On the other hand, he *did* think this way, and I didn't know about it, and I feel angry and sad that somehow he wasn't 100% proud and excited about me from day 1.
Let it go. If we only married those who struck us right away as 100% amazing, well, there would be plenty fewer marriages.
What matters is how he treats you now.
Also, accept his honesty gracefully, especially if you want further honesty from him.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:59 AM on September 5, 2013 [43 favorites]
Let it go. If we only married those who struck us right away as 100% amazing, well, there would be plenty fewer marriages.
What matters is how he treats you now.
Also, accept his honesty gracefully, especially if you want further honesty from him.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:59 AM on September 5, 2013 [43 favorites]
As a pretty short straight dude I have had a variant of this conversation one more than one occasion. Informed by that, I agree with the victory lap comment.
posted by ftm at 7:01 AM on September 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by ftm at 7:01 AM on September 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
Also, accept his honesty gracefully, especially if you want further honesty from him.
That reminds me OP, I also feel like if you have to do this, that's another quality that would make me think he wasn't strong enough to avoid really hurting me. Someone should be honest with you because they just ARE honest. If someone is only willing to tell you the truth that you'll react to without any distress, I think you'll end up in some super passive aggressive situations where you know something is going on with the person but they refuse to come out with it because they can't be assured of your positive or neutral reaction. Negative things happen in life, the news you will need to tell each other is probably not going to be rosy 100% of the time.
posted by cairdeas at 7:03 AM on September 5, 2013 [18 favorites]
That reminds me OP, I also feel like if you have to do this, that's another quality that would make me think he wasn't strong enough to avoid really hurting me. Someone should be honest with you because they just ARE honest. If someone is only willing to tell you the truth that you'll react to without any distress, I think you'll end up in some super passive aggressive situations where you know something is going on with the person but they refuse to come out with it because they can't be assured of your positive or neutral reaction. Negative things happen in life, the news you will need to tell each other is probably not going to be rosy 100% of the time.
posted by cairdeas at 7:03 AM on September 5, 2013 [18 favorites]
I don't think this is a big deal. He actually shows growth in letting go of the fantasy he had and moving into real life. We all have images of what we think our lives and loves should be and then real life and love show up. When its right, most things move along well enough for both people to adjust comfortably. And then there are a few things that take a bit longer to adjust to...in your boyfriend's case it was an age difference. He's on the other side of it and feels confident he's passed it so he mentioned it. You also sound confident about the relationship which leads me to wonder if this comment didn't peck at another issue you might be feeling. If not, let it go.
posted by PeaPod at 7:08 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by PeaPod at 7:08 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I had a lot of various social anxieties about what 'someone else would think' about 'some other person' - mostly from highschool and parents.
It had nothing to do with being ashamed of the person I was with. It's often 'oh, I never thought they would get along' - and I would feel bad about myself if they didn't. Generally there were no rational reasons behind this belief - it takes time to even think about it!
They may not have thought you'd like their friends, or that their friends would like you. Or they may have jumped to a conclusion - for example, that you'd be bored/uncomfortable around his younger friends and that'd reflect badly on him (perhaps subconsciously). Or that his friends would think worse of him for not 'fitting in' and having a younger girlfriend (social anxiety often includes a lot of worries about fitting in, often with very little rationale behind them.)
When you lack social skills - how do you learn which events are appropriate to show PDA at? Will people think badly of me if I hold her hand? Or if I have sex in the middle of the floor? This is another part of 'fitting in'. It comes with a tendency to overcompensate on the safe side - very little PDA for example.
So basically, it seems like he had to overcome a few hangups and stereotypes, mostly related to his own confidence level - his problems! This is a good thing!
posted by Ashlyth at 7:09 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
It had nothing to do with being ashamed of the person I was with. It's often 'oh, I never thought they would get along' - and I would feel bad about myself if they didn't. Generally there were no rational reasons behind this belief - it takes time to even think about it!
They may not have thought you'd like their friends, or that their friends would like you. Or they may have jumped to a conclusion - for example, that you'd be bored/uncomfortable around his younger friends and that'd reflect badly on him (perhaps subconsciously). Or that his friends would think worse of him for not 'fitting in' and having a younger girlfriend (social anxiety often includes a lot of worries about fitting in, often with very little rationale behind them.)
When you lack social skills - how do you learn which events are appropriate to show PDA at? Will people think badly of me if I hold her hand? Or if I have sex in the middle of the floor? This is another part of 'fitting in'. It comes with a tendency to overcompensate on the safe side - very little PDA for example.
So basically, it seems like he had to overcome a few hangups and stereotypes, mostly related to his own confidence level - his problems! This is a good thing!
posted by Ashlyth at 7:09 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think you would do well to put cairdeas' two comments in your back pocket for future reference and reflection.
posted by headnsouth at 7:09 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 7:09 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think that kind of uneasy feeling about an age gap early in a relationship is a very common thing, and hesitancy about PDA seems like a reasonable consequence. It doesn't sound like he was "ashamed" to be seen with an older woman, but he also may not have been completely relaxed about it. There's a lot of territory between "ashamed" and "all over you."
A lot of people feel uncomfortable with any age gap at all. There was a recent AskMe in which the asker wondered if a 25-30 age gap was such a huge gap the relationship wouldn't work out. An older woman and younger man is unfortunately not a well-accepted combination, and a gap of 8 years is on the big side for many people. It seems normal for your boyfriend to have felt some hesitation about this. In my case, I am the younger partner in a 10 year age gap relationship, and while I never worried about the gap, it bothered my partner when we first got together--she really didn't see herself with someone that much younger, just as your boyfriend didn't see himself with someone older. She also looks back now and says "oh, that was silly." If I were you, I wouldn't be offended at all. He overcame a stereotype, it's all in the past now, and he's able to discuss the evolution of his feelings with you. All good things.
posted by snorkmaiden at 7:12 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
A lot of people feel uncomfortable with any age gap at all. There was a recent AskMe in which the asker wondered if a 25-30 age gap was such a huge gap the relationship wouldn't work out. An older woman and younger man is unfortunately not a well-accepted combination, and a gap of 8 years is on the big side for many people. It seems normal for your boyfriend to have felt some hesitation about this. In my case, I am the younger partner in a 10 year age gap relationship, and while I never worried about the gap, it bothered my partner when we first got together--she really didn't see herself with someone that much younger, just as your boyfriend didn't see himself with someone older. She also looks back now and says "oh, that was silly." If I were you, I wouldn't be offended at all. He overcame a stereotype, it's all in the past now, and he's able to discuss the evolution of his feelings with you. All good things.
posted by snorkmaiden at 7:12 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
That's where I freaked and started asking myself: What does that mean? That he was ashamed to be seen with an older woman?
Maybe not ashamed, but he was concerned about what people would think? It's irritating (or sad, or something) to think an eight-year difference would be considered a lot when the woman is the older one but it does seem like there are a lot of people who do consider it that way. I don't think it's really weird that he initially had that thought, because it is unfortunately pervasive.
I want to regain my warm feelings toward him, but I don't know how to think about this. Or how to proceed.
For me, when I have a strong negative reaction to something someone has done, a feeling that it may be relationship-changing, I try to consider my own feelings about the relationship in general. Is it possible that aspects of the relationship are wearing on me, or that there are other emotions I need to own in considering whether the relationship needs to change? In this case, your boyfriend may be a really good person but he does sound immature and awkward; maybe the "heavy lifting" is getting a bit much for you?
posted by BibiRose at 7:13 AM on September 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Maybe not ashamed, but he was concerned about what people would think? It's irritating (or sad, or something) to think an eight-year difference would be considered a lot when the woman is the older one but it does seem like there are a lot of people who do consider it that way. I don't think it's really weird that he initially had that thought, because it is unfortunately pervasive.
I want to regain my warm feelings toward him, but I don't know how to think about this. Or how to proceed.
For me, when I have a strong negative reaction to something someone has done, a feeling that it may be relationship-changing, I try to consider my own feelings about the relationship in general. Is it possible that aspects of the relationship are wearing on me, or that there are other emotions I need to own in considering whether the relationship needs to change? In this case, your boyfriend may be a really good person but he does sound immature and awkward; maybe the "heavy lifting" is getting a bit much for you?
posted by BibiRose at 7:13 AM on September 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Learning is a lifelong process. Sure, we learn a lot of social and relational lessons in our teens and young adulthood, but not everyone, and not all lessons. A quick glance at AskMe can indicate that much.
I have to wonder, do you have any sensitivities/shame or hang ups about being the older woman, apart from his initial reactions? Is that why this is hitting you this hard? If not, I apologize, but I suggest taking this as him growing out of his fantasized life script and your victory regardless.
posted by Zelos at 7:15 AM on September 5, 2013
I have to wonder, do you have any sensitivities/shame or hang ups about being the older woman, apart from his initial reactions? Is that why this is hitting you this hard? If not, I apologize, but I suggest taking this as him growing out of his fantasized life script and your victory regardless.
posted by Zelos at 7:15 AM on September 5, 2013
I like phunniemee's suggestion about Other People, but I also do think you are massively overreacting and you need to think about why. Okay, I can imagine that comment being slightly hurtful, but a part of you "turned to ice and stone inside" because of this? Just because he expressed a tiny bit of reluctance/uncertainty about your relationship in the past...and only because it didn't match his "conventional script" - all the nasty words about ugliness and undesirableness and shame came from you.
So are you concerned about the difference in your ages? I can understand that - I'm a little older than my partner, and occasionally, especially at the start of our relationship, I felt funky and down about it. And then I turned 30, and none of our friends were that age yet, it was iike his relative youth threw my 'advanced age' into relief and it made me prickly. One of his friends made a bitchy comment about my age once, and to be frank, I flew off the fucking handle. It wasn't my finest hour, but you know, the world is full of pretty nasty narratives about aging women and it can hard to be graceful about it 100% of the time. But if you want the relationship to work out, you've got to make the effort.
I also think that eight years ain't nothin' between two people, but eight years difference where the younger person acts much, much younger than his age as a result of a long-standing social anxiety disorder...that does give me a little bit of pause. I don't think it's inherently unworkable, but I do think you need to be careful that what you expect in exchange from "fixing" and "lifting" your partner isn't over-the-top adoration and worship. It sounds to me like you are treading on the edge of a power imbalance, and policing his thoughts to this level - insisting that he should never, ever have wavered in his attraction to you, not ever - doesn't seem like a healthy path to go down.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:18 AM on September 5, 2013 [30 favorites]
So are you concerned about the difference in your ages? I can understand that - I'm a little older than my partner, and occasionally, especially at the start of our relationship, I felt funky and down about it. And then I turned 30, and none of our friends were that age yet, it was iike his relative youth threw my 'advanced age' into relief and it made me prickly. One of his friends made a bitchy comment about my age once, and to be frank, I flew off the fucking handle. It wasn't my finest hour, but you know, the world is full of pretty nasty narratives about aging women and it can hard to be graceful about it 100% of the time. But if you want the relationship to work out, you've got to make the effort.
I also think that eight years ain't nothin' between two people, but eight years difference where the younger person acts much, much younger than his age as a result of a long-standing social anxiety disorder...that does give me a little bit of pause. I don't think it's inherently unworkable, but I do think you need to be careful that what you expect in exchange from "fixing" and "lifting" your partner isn't over-the-top adoration and worship. It sounds to me like you are treading on the edge of a power imbalance, and policing his thoughts to this level - insisting that he should never, ever have wavered in his attraction to you, not ever - doesn't seem like a healthy path to go down.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:18 AM on September 5, 2013 [30 favorites]
You are eight years older than he is, which is not an insignificant difference for someone still in his 20's. He mentioned that he used to feel uncomfortable about some aspects of the relationship because of that age gap, but now that discomfort is in the past. Unless I missed something in your account, this seems like pretty run-of-the-mill relationship adaptation to me and I'm not at all getting how this is "incredibly hurtful." I mean, how you feel is how you feel, but if I told a girlfriend "the age gap used to make me uncomfortable, but I'm cool with it now and I like how things are going" and her reaction was intense enough to bring me to tears and she described herself as turning to stone or ice in response to my once-upon-a-time-now-long-past-discomfort-over-an-eight-year-age-gap, I think I'd be looking for a new girlfriend. "How do I move on?" is a good question. "Why is the fact of his now-past discomfort triggering such an intense reaction in me?" is a better one.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:21 AM on September 5, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:21 AM on September 5, 2013 [8 favorites]
I am a woman involved with someone who is more than 20 years younger than me. We both have had concerns about how our relationship will be perceived by friends, family, and acquaintances, and we've been disclosing our relationship somewhat selectively as we work through those concerns together, dip our toes in, see how it goes in one place versus another. That your boyfriend had some anxiety about how the relationship would be perceived because of the age gap seems entirely like not a big deal to me, especially since it's no longer the case. I'd say the thing he could have done better was talk to you honestly about it at the time, so that the decision about PDAs could have been more of a mutual one. But it seems like maybe that is one of the relationship skills he's been improving as he's with you, so I wouldn't give it too much weight.
posted by Incoherent Cockroach at 7:22 AM on September 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Incoherent Cockroach at 7:22 AM on September 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
That's where I freaked and started asking myself: What does that mean? That he was ashamed to be seen with an older woman? Is who I am some kind of "obstacle" he had to overcome?
Everyone seems to be focused on the possibility that he was uncomfortable being publicly seen with you, but I wonder if this isn't something else entirely. Maybe he was just afraid of being awkward and showing his own inexperience? Very public displays of affection are in a way something that is associated with teenagers, isn't it?
Yeah, he's 28, but a very inexperienced 28. Your greater experience might have made him nervous about doing something embarrassingly juvenile.
posted by atrazine at 7:23 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Everyone seems to be focused on the possibility that he was uncomfortable being publicly seen with you, but I wonder if this isn't something else entirely. Maybe he was just afraid of being awkward and showing his own inexperience? Very public displays of affection are in a way something that is associated with teenagers, isn't it?
Yeah, he's 28, but a very inexperienced 28. Your greater experience might have made him nervous about doing something embarrassingly juvenile.
posted by atrazine at 7:23 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
pretentious illiterate - yes! spot on comment. This is what I was going to put out there. Power imbalance, "teacher" etc. If it is true, it's not a good foundation for a relationship. If it's not true, then OP is telling herself this story to keep distance, and that's condescending to her partner.
I wanted to add that this comment seems to have really triggered her.
Maybe OP is bothered because of her bf's less than perfect initial picture of her... it burst a bubble. She's human after all etc. Anyways, not the original question but stuff to look at.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:24 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I wanted to add that this comment seems to have really triggered her.
Maybe OP is bothered because of her bf's less than perfect initial picture of her... it burst a bubble. She's human after all etc. Anyways, not the original question but stuff to look at.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:24 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I believe that you're hurt, I'm just having a really hard time doing the math that comes out that way. Had he represented himself as someone free of typical male socialization (I'd make a caveat about Western socialization, but I'm pretty sure the age one is universal)?
Is it that you think he's saying he was shy because you were so old and decrepit? Because what I'm reading is that he was worried, at first, about being judged for all the things men are judged for when they are with older women: that they are "kept," that they have mommy issues, that they're weak, they can't provide, blah blah blah bullshit. Also, a lot of people in their 20s are still growing out of the young adult mindset that dating someone more than a couple of years +/- is uncool or wrong or illegal. Sometimes it takes some conscious thought to move past that habit.
And then! People who suffer from anxiety already don't need much to feel even more anxiety. If he was unaccustomed to PDA and anxious about it, anything would make it worse. This is about him, and you're making it all about you.
Have you maybe not ever dated anyone different from you? I mean, different in a way that you've been socialized about or just have your own feelings about? Never gone out with someone from a distinctly different class, or someone whose job is dangerous, or massive education gap, or some other thing where you've had to decide if that was an okay fit for you?
You know, I'm fat. And if my husband told me he'd been a little iffy on me at first because of it, it would sting because I have lots of internalized shame about being fat, but I wouldn't be blindsided by the fact that I was fat. You seem kind of gobsmacked that you are older than him and that he noticed, and you seem to be unaware that there IS a stigma. It's a dumb stigma, but it exists and I think most people know about it. If you are pretending you don't know that in order to be good and hurt about how he called you an old hag (a former old hag, I guess), that's a huge problem. If you're training him to never say anything about the age difference or anything else you don't like to hear by whiplashing at him for being honest about things that are true, that's a huge problem.
If he actually said you were an old hag, that's a problem.
I think you should search yourself for some clarity here before putting all the blame for your hurt on him.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:26 AM on September 5, 2013 [29 favorites]
Is it that you think he's saying he was shy because you were so old and decrepit? Because what I'm reading is that he was worried, at first, about being judged for all the things men are judged for when they are with older women: that they are "kept," that they have mommy issues, that they're weak, they can't provide, blah blah blah bullshit. Also, a lot of people in their 20s are still growing out of the young adult mindset that dating someone more than a couple of years +/- is uncool or wrong or illegal. Sometimes it takes some conscious thought to move past that habit.
And then! People who suffer from anxiety already don't need much to feel even more anxiety. If he was unaccustomed to PDA and anxious about it, anything would make it worse. This is about him, and you're making it all about you.
Have you maybe not ever dated anyone different from you? I mean, different in a way that you've been socialized about or just have your own feelings about? Never gone out with someone from a distinctly different class, or someone whose job is dangerous, or massive education gap, or some other thing where you've had to decide if that was an okay fit for you?
You know, I'm fat. And if my husband told me he'd been a little iffy on me at first because of it, it would sting because I have lots of internalized shame about being fat, but I wouldn't be blindsided by the fact that I was fat. You seem kind of gobsmacked that you are older than him and that he noticed, and you seem to be unaware that there IS a stigma. It's a dumb stigma, but it exists and I think most people know about it. If you are pretending you don't know that in order to be good and hurt about how he called you an old hag (a former old hag, I guess), that's a huge problem. If you're training him to never say anything about the age difference or anything else you don't like to hear by whiplashing at him for being honest about things that are true, that's a huge problem.
If he actually said you were an old hag, that's a problem.
I think you should search yourself for some clarity here before putting all the blame for your hurt on him.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:26 AM on September 5, 2013 [29 favorites]
*Wanted to note, your boyfriend did not "say something incredibly hurtful". Your boyfriend said something, and you felt hurt by it. Many people as noted above would not have been hurt by what he said, but would have had a different experience of it.
The difference may seem nuanced, but we do not see the world as it is, we see the world as we are and then blame the world. Instead of looking to how he should/could be different so that you would be happier, maybe looking inside would be more productive.
best of fortune
posted by jcworth at 7:35 AM on September 5, 2013 [16 favorites]
The difference may seem nuanced, but we do not see the world as it is, we see the world as we are and then blame the world. Instead of looking to how he should/could be different so that you would be happier, maybe looking inside would be more productive.
best of fortune
posted by jcworth at 7:35 AM on September 5, 2013 [16 favorites]
I'm sorry, but I don't really see what your boyfriend has done wrong here. He's obviously attracted to you, and really in love with you...he was just being honest about his initial impressions. To me, it's no different than if he had said something like "I always saw myself with someone shorter than me, but you are an inch taller than me and I love you". We all have preconceived notions about what "type" of partner we will end up with...but then we fall in love with an actual person and those ideas go out the window.
So, to answer your question, I do think that you are overreacting. Try to be happy about the great relationship that you have, instead of creating drama. (I don't mean that sarcastically... I just mean that there doesn't seem to be an actual problem here.)
posted by barnoley at 7:40 AM on September 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
So, to answer your question, I do think that you are overreacting. Try to be happy about the great relationship that you have, instead of creating drama. (I don't mean that sarcastically... I just mean that there doesn't seem to be an actual problem here.)
posted by barnoley at 7:40 AM on September 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
You are not only overreacting but you are also creating a possibility that he will be afraid to be open and honest with you in the future. He felt how he felt and that should be acknowledged, not disparaged. It's common for men to be with younger women, so he felt awkward that he was with an older woman. That is not the same as saying that you are less attractive because you are older, which seems to be the way you interpreted it. You are older than him, it's a fact, and that was relevant to him then and is not relevant to him now. It might come up again if you plan a life together that involves kids. Don't be offended - it's just a reality.
posted by Dansaman at 8:03 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Dansaman at 8:03 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
"...he said that he'd had some sort of script or narrative about a future girlfriend: someone a few years younger than him, with mutual interests, etc. Then an amazing woman came into his life (me) and it didn't fit the "script" and it took him a while to get used to that, but now he's so grateful and can't imagine life without me. Then he said "Actually, that's the reason I was reluctant about PDA before."
That doesn't sound like "I didn't want to be seen with an old lady" to me. It sounds like he wasn't sure you were "the one" at first because you didn't fit his preconceived notions of what "the one" would be like, and PDA is a statement of a more serious relationship now that he realizes you ARE "the one."
I've had a lot of age-gap relationships in which I am older than the guys I date (I am female). Eight years isn't a big deal in my opinion. In fact, it's not enough of a difference for me to bother bringing it up. If a guy I were interested in brought it up I'd consider it a yellow flag. I don't think it should be an issue.
I have, however, been more concerned about it when the guy is more than 10 years younger than I am. That's when it seems like generational differences really come into play. At eight or nine years younger, you're still pretty much in the same generation and know the same song references, TV shows from childhood, etc. Also, people can usually guess someone's age within about a seven-year window unless a person looks unusually younger or older than their actual age. So it's not likely that people who meet the two of you can even tell there is much of an age difference, if at all.
Try to set your hurt feelings aside. I think this is more about you than him--about you as a woman in a culture that disses female aging. Luckily, this is changing, and the age of the "cougar" has arrived. (I say that somewhat facetiously but I really think that now is the best time in human history to be a woman dating a younger man.)
posted by xenophile at 8:04 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
That doesn't sound like "I didn't want to be seen with an old lady" to me. It sounds like he wasn't sure you were "the one" at first because you didn't fit his preconceived notions of what "the one" would be like, and PDA is a statement of a more serious relationship now that he realizes you ARE "the one."
I've had a lot of age-gap relationships in which I am older than the guys I date (I am female). Eight years isn't a big deal in my opinion. In fact, it's not enough of a difference for me to bother bringing it up. If a guy I were interested in brought it up I'd consider it a yellow flag. I don't think it should be an issue.
I have, however, been more concerned about it when the guy is more than 10 years younger than I am. That's when it seems like generational differences really come into play. At eight or nine years younger, you're still pretty much in the same generation and know the same song references, TV shows from childhood, etc. Also, people can usually guess someone's age within about a seven-year window unless a person looks unusually younger or older than their actual age. So it's not likely that people who meet the two of you can even tell there is much of an age difference, if at all.
Try to set your hurt feelings aside. I think this is more about you than him--about you as a woman in a culture that disses female aging. Luckily, this is changing, and the age of the "cougar" has arrived. (I say that somewhat facetiously but I really think that now is the best time in human history to be a woman dating a younger man.)
posted by xenophile at 8:04 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Maybe I can give some insight on your boyfriend's perspective, as someone with (quite mild) social anxiety. I think it's totally normal to avoid PDA if you are afraid of people judging your relationship, and doubly normal in the case of social anxiety. Being nervous about being judged by others is a really, really common thing in everyone, and especially in people with social anxiety, it can lead people to avoid behaving differently from the "norm" for fear of judgement/stares. Even if you don't think there's anything wrong with the "non-usual" behaviour at all. I'm not sure how to explain it exactly but some people have a very strong drive to avoid drawing negative attention.
To be totally honest, I'm 27 and female, and I'd be a little uncomfortable about PDA with a 36-year old man, even though that's a far more socially accepted dynamic, and I doubt anyone would ever comment on it or even think twice about it.
It was dumb that he told you (particularly with his inexperience and social anxiety, he probably didn't realize that age can be a very sensitive topic for women, particularly given your age difference), but I really doubt he meant anything bad by it, and I also don't think he's ashamed of you in any way.
Try to hear what he's actually saying, and not what you're afraid he's saying - things like "That's where I freaked and started asking myself: What does that mean? That he was ashamed to be seen with an older woman? Is who I am some kind of "obstacle" he had to overcome? are not healthy thoughts to be thinking when what he is actually saying/doing is he regularly tells me I'm beautiful....we were privately *very* affectionate, and I never doubted he was very into me.
You're probably going to hate this, but seriously, consider that your reaction might be saying more about you than about him. You might want to think about where all these negative interpretations are coming from, when your descriptions of his actual behaviour sound very loving and accepting to me - even from day 1 you "never doubted he was into you" until this one comment, which you're reading all sorts of meanings into that are likely not there at all.
posted by randomnity at 8:06 AM on September 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
To be totally honest, I'm 27 and female, and I'd be a little uncomfortable about PDA with a 36-year old man, even though that's a far more socially accepted dynamic, and I doubt anyone would ever comment on it or even think twice about it.
It was dumb that he told you (particularly with his inexperience and social anxiety, he probably didn't realize that age can be a very sensitive topic for women, particularly given your age difference), but I really doubt he meant anything bad by it, and I also don't think he's ashamed of you in any way.
Try to hear what he's actually saying, and not what you're afraid he's saying - things like "That's where I freaked and started asking myself: What does that mean? That he was ashamed to be seen with an older woman? Is who I am some kind of "obstacle" he had to overcome? are not healthy thoughts to be thinking when what he is actually saying/doing is he regularly tells me I'm beautiful....we were privately *very* affectionate, and I never doubted he was very into me.
You're probably going to hate this, but seriously, consider that your reaction might be saying more about you than about him. You might want to think about where all these negative interpretations are coming from, when your descriptions of his actual behaviour sound very loving and accepting to me - even from day 1 you "never doubted he was into you" until this one comment, which you're reading all sorts of meanings into that are likely not there at all.
posted by randomnity at 8:06 AM on September 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
I think it's totally normal to avoid PDA if you are afraid of people judging your relationship, and doubly normal in the case of social anxiety.
Sorry, just to add onto this so it's clear, by "normal" I mean common, and understandable, but not necessarily good or something that should be just accepted with no efforts to improve it. So it's great that he's gotten better at it, particularly if he's made the initiative on his own. It sounds like he's maturing a lot and making great improvement with his social anxiety, which is likely a credit to you as well as to him.
posted by randomnity at 8:10 AM on September 5, 2013
Sorry, just to add onto this so it's clear, by "normal" I mean common, and understandable, but not necessarily good or something that should be just accepted with no efforts to improve it. So it's great that he's gotten better at it, particularly if he's made the initiative on his own. It sounds like he's maturing a lot and making great improvement with his social anxiety, which is likely a credit to you as well as to him.
posted by randomnity at 8:10 AM on September 5, 2013
The comment he made was in the context of us talking about our age differences; he said that he used to be concerned about it, but that now it's not at all an issue. I asked what he meant, and he said that he'd had some sort of script or narrative about a future girlfriend: someone a few years younger than him, with mutual interests, etc. Then an amazing woman came into his life (me) and it didn't fit the "script" and it took him a while to get used to that, but now he's so grateful and can't imagine life without me. Then he said "Actually, that's the reason I was reluctant about PDA before."
This doesn't even sound like he was specifically thinking of the age difference, to me. It sounds like he wasn't comfortable with your relationship not fitting a made-up script, and the age was a part of that. I don't think that's the same thing as "she's older therefore no PDA".
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:11 AM on September 5, 2013
This doesn't even sound like he was specifically thinking of the age difference, to me. It sounds like he wasn't comfortable with your relationship not fitting a made-up script, and the age was a part of that. I don't think that's the same thing as "she's older therefore no PDA".
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:11 AM on September 5, 2013
There are a ton of brilliant answers already. I don't mean to add to the pile on, but you're totally overreacting. It's fine to be hurt, because your feelings are your feelings and they are valid. But hold on to the good things-- not the sentiment, which isn't even true any more. He doesn't mean it now, he obviously loves you bunches and tons and he's sorry for hurting you.
I kinda see the hidden meaning in this question as, "well I'm me. How could he not notice how awesome I was right from the beginning? How could he have ever had any misgivings? Doesn't he know I'm awesome? How dare he? I put up with a lot of stuff at first because he's shy and has issues and everything but I still thought HE was worth it, so how could he ever have doubts for one second? How could he not just KNOW and want in on it from the get-go?"
That's what I'm picking up on, and like all I can tell you is that, no, it doesn't work like that. You're wonderful and unique and totally worth it, I'm sure. And we all like to think that when our partners first see us, they always 'knew' -- and they throw themselves in it with wild abandon, and sometimes they do. But usually, they're just a humans, trying to find someone who clicks with them in a similar manner, and trying to gauge if this person might like them back just as much (otherwise it'd be one-sided, and no one wants that) and whether this person is reciprocal for sexy times-- and most people (I'd wager the majority, really) just aren't sure at first whether they will suit each other. Sometimes, people need to check their preconceptions. Sometimes, people are socially conditioned to be shallow or superficial, even if they are not this way inside-- they need some work to come around and get over things that are really ridiculous, like weight stigma or height stigma for ladies, or age stigma. And that's okay. Because seriously, almost everyone has some kind of hang up that is stupid. He got over his, and you should now get over yours.
Because you're lucky, you found something beautiful and reciprocal and mutual. Stop sabotaging it.
posted by Dimes at 8:13 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I kinda see the hidden meaning in this question as, "well I'm me. How could he not notice how awesome I was right from the beginning? How could he have ever had any misgivings? Doesn't he know I'm awesome? How dare he? I put up with a lot of stuff at first because he's shy and has issues and everything but I still thought HE was worth it, so how could he ever have doubts for one second? How could he not just KNOW and want in on it from the get-go?"
That's what I'm picking up on, and like all I can tell you is that, no, it doesn't work like that. You're wonderful and unique and totally worth it, I'm sure. And we all like to think that when our partners first see us, they always 'knew' -- and they throw themselves in it with wild abandon, and sometimes they do. But usually, they're just a humans, trying to find someone who clicks with them in a similar manner, and trying to gauge if this person might like them back just as much (otherwise it'd be one-sided, and no one wants that) and whether this person is reciprocal for sexy times-- and most people (I'd wager the majority, really) just aren't sure at first whether they will suit each other. Sometimes, people need to check their preconceptions. Sometimes, people are socially conditioned to be shallow or superficial, even if they are not this way inside-- they need some work to come around and get over things that are really ridiculous, like weight stigma or height stigma for ladies, or age stigma. And that's okay. Because seriously, almost everyone has some kind of hang up that is stupid. He got over his, and you should now get over yours.
Because you're lucky, you found something beautiful and reciprocal and mutual. Stop sabotaging it.
posted by Dimes at 8:13 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
The way you describe the relationship is of a "Savior complex" and that's more troubling (for him and you).
The fledgling young one made a comment that revealed to you that he once didn't see you as the Great Savior you thought you were to him.
posted by Kruger5 at 8:21 AM on September 5, 2013 [6 favorites]
The fledgling young one made a comment that revealed to you that he once didn't see you as the Great Savior you thought you were to him.
posted by Kruger5 at 8:21 AM on September 5, 2013 [6 favorites]
When I was 28 I dated a woman who was 36 for nearly a year. In the beginning, I had a little bit of what your boyfriend had, that is to say, a little bit of a PDA aversion because of our age difference. I had been socially conditioned, predominantly by my parents, that because of my *status* of who I was, where I was from, and what I did for a living that the norm was to date younger women. So, going back to the PDA, I had to shake off the *taboo* feeling I had walking around with a woman not only 8 years older than me, but one that was 10+ years older than the younger me was conditioned to think he was supposed to be with. Of course as the relationship grew, the age became largely transparent. FWIW, that relationship ended due to reasons unrelated to the age difference.
So let it go.
posted by teg4rvn at 9:35 AM on September 5, 2013
So let it go.
posted by teg4rvn at 9:35 AM on September 5, 2013
OP, I get it. If someone told me that they were initially reluctant to hold hands or whatever because I am visibly disabled, I'd be crushed. (Their reluctance would be totally understandable--but I would still be crushed.)
Just keep going. He's not reluctant or embarrassed now. His consciousness has been raised. Soon enough (if not already) he will be telling his friends to get OVER the ooooh-gee-should-I-date-this-5-year-gap-person-how-taboo BS.
posted by skbw at 9:37 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Just keep going. He's not reluctant or embarrassed now. His consciousness has been raised. Soon enough (if not already) he will be telling his friends to get OVER the ooooh-gee-should-I-date-this-5-year-gap-person-how-taboo BS.
posted by skbw at 9:37 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
What he said was almost undoubtedly not meant to be incredibly hurtful. The best that I can tell, you're hurt by it because it doesn't fit in with YOUR interpretation of the narrative of your early relationship.
It sounds like it's hurtful to you because he's introducing the idea that something about YOU had something to do with how he acted around you in public, whereas you may have originally written it off as his anxiety, etc.
Be happy; it sounds like you have an honest boyfriend that loves you.
posted by destructive cactus at 9:38 AM on September 5, 2013
It sounds like it's hurtful to you because he's introducing the idea that something about YOU had something to do with how he acted around you in public, whereas you may have originally written it off as his anxiety, etc.
Be happy; it sounds like you have an honest boyfriend that loves you.
posted by destructive cactus at 9:38 AM on September 5, 2013
I don't think that you're overreacting at all.
It seems like some of the comments above are assuming that you have a problem with him having any feelings or initial discomfort about the the age difference, and I definitely didn't get that impression. There are lots of reasons why he or you might be concerned or a little uncomfortable with the age difference (e.g. if you guys want to have kids but he doesn't want to until he's older, also just general issues about maturity and where you're at in life in terms of lifestyle, work, etc.), and why it might take some getting used to. But that is such a far cry from being uncomfortable with holding your hand in public because of the age difference that I don't know that they even belong in the same discussion. Forget about kissing, etc. in public, lots of people are uncomfortable with that, regardless of who they're with. Holding hands isn't really even what I'd call PDA, it's more like a non-PDA indicator that you're a couple.
I don't see where people are coming from when they say that that is not a hurtful thing. I completely disagree with the idea that it's just you injecting the insult/embarrassment aspect in it. And I also disagree with the idea that he didn't do anything wrong. Starting/continuing in a relationship with a person that you are very attracted to but that you are uncomfortable being seen as a couple with in public is cruel and fucked up behavior. (It's also kind of out of touch with the reality of what people's perceptions would be. An eight year age difference is not always even apparent from appearances and is not usually going to attract stares or judgement, regardless of which person is older/younger).
So, yeah, I totally understand why you feel like you've turned to ice inside. I would feel the same way. It also seems like there's a lot that's good in the relationship, and that he doesn't feel that way anymore, so I'm not at all saying that you should break up with him or anything, just that in my opinion your feelings are justified and you're not overreacting. And that if you find that this (or that this in combination with some of the other things you mentioned, e.g . doing most of the heavy lifting emotionally) has fundamentally changed your feelings about him or about the relationship, that's legitimate. (On the other hand, you might find that after some time has passed that it doesn't bother you much anymore, and that's legitimate too of course.)
posted by treese at 9:40 AM on September 5, 2013 [6 favorites]
It seems like some of the comments above are assuming that you have a problem with him having any feelings or initial discomfort about the the age difference, and I definitely didn't get that impression. There are lots of reasons why he or you might be concerned or a little uncomfortable with the age difference (e.g. if you guys want to have kids but he doesn't want to until he's older, also just general issues about maturity and where you're at in life in terms of lifestyle, work, etc.), and why it might take some getting used to. But that is such a far cry from being uncomfortable with holding your hand in public because of the age difference that I don't know that they even belong in the same discussion. Forget about kissing, etc. in public, lots of people are uncomfortable with that, regardless of who they're with. Holding hands isn't really even what I'd call PDA, it's more like a non-PDA indicator that you're a couple.
I don't see where people are coming from when they say that that is not a hurtful thing. I completely disagree with the idea that it's just you injecting the insult/embarrassment aspect in it. And I also disagree with the idea that he didn't do anything wrong. Starting/continuing in a relationship with a person that you are very attracted to but that you are uncomfortable being seen as a couple with in public is cruel and fucked up behavior. (It's also kind of out of touch with the reality of what people's perceptions would be. An eight year age difference is not always even apparent from appearances and is not usually going to attract stares or judgement, regardless of which person is older/younger).
So, yeah, I totally understand why you feel like you've turned to ice inside. I would feel the same way. It also seems like there's a lot that's good in the relationship, and that he doesn't feel that way anymore, so I'm not at all saying that you should break up with him or anything, just that in my opinion your feelings are justified and you're not overreacting. And that if you find that this (or that this in combination with some of the other things you mentioned, e.g . doing most of the heavy lifting emotionally) has fundamentally changed your feelings about him or about the relationship, that's legitimate. (On the other hand, you might find that after some time has passed that it doesn't bother you much anymore, and that's legitimate too of course.)
posted by treese at 9:40 AM on September 5, 2013 [6 favorites]
He essentially just told you that you are better than his ideal.
As a tall woman who formerly only dated tall men and am now in the best relationship of my life with a shorter man, please, trust that this is a compliment. He said: "I used to fantasize about my perfect woman and then I met you and you were even better than my fantasy", he just said it badly.
posted by windykites at 10:06 AM on September 5, 2013 [10 favorites]
As a tall woman who formerly only dated tall men and am now in the best relationship of my life with a shorter man, please, trust that this is a compliment. He said: "I used to fantasize about my perfect woman and then I met you and you were even better than my fantasy", he just said it badly.
posted by windykites at 10:06 AM on September 5, 2013 [10 favorites]
Would he find it hurtful that you see yourself as doing most of the heavy lifting?
Honestly, I don't understand why you are stewing over something he said about his thinking during the early days - unless you were talking about the age diff because he brought it up, maybe even because he brought it up again.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 10:40 AM on September 5, 2013
Honestly, I don't understand why you are stewing over something he said about his thinking during the early days - unless you were talking about the age diff because he brought it up, maybe even because he brought it up again.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 10:40 AM on September 5, 2013
If he didn't intend it in a hurtful way (just a matter-of-fact way), take it as it was intended and move on.
posted by Doohickie at 10:52 AM on September 5, 2013
posted by Doohickie at 10:52 AM on September 5, 2013
If people come into things with lacks of experience, misconceptions, and scripts, it can be astounding to them when the lightbulb goes on and they realize they don't have to play by the script. I suspect that is what this was. I doubt he meant to be hurtful.
posted by Jacen at 11:49 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacen at 11:49 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
It can be seen as hurtful, sure, but you can change your perspective on the comment and see it as incredibly positive: he had a picture in his mind before he met you, but you are SO AWESOME he tossed that picture out and went with the awesomeness that is you. There was an early hitch while he still had that picture in his head, but like everyone said, YOU WON. YOU, are so awesome, that he cheerfully dropped all his preconceived notions of relationship for you. HELL YEAH!
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 11:59 AM on September 5, 2013
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 11:59 AM on September 5, 2013
I think it's a pretty punk move that instead of telling you why he was anti PDA at the beginning, he was just prissy about it. I would have a problem with the "guess what's making me saaaaad" game he was playing and its implications for other types of feelings and conversations.... particularly since if you had known why he wasn't into PDA at that time you might have broken up with him. Withholding info to keep someone with you is a major deal breaker for me.
posted by spunweb at 12:00 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by spunweb at 12:00 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think you're worrying too much about it, and probably did overreact. First of all, the fact that you're only 7 months into your relationship might be proportionate to how much you're feeling hurt. I believe you when you say you believe that he's sincere about changing his views--and I think he has too--but you just might be too close to the situation right now and subconsciously that's giving you a little doubt about the relationship in general.
Second of all, even in the most successful relationships, there are often going to be weird points of resistance when you embark. And they're not always going to be what you think they are. I'm fat and I tend to expect partners to be slightly squicked by that at the beginning. Some years after we were married, I asked my husband about that very thing, and he said he was never squicked because I'm fat--but WAS slightly so because I have a weird little collection of skin tags on my neck, which I hardly ever think about and had never considered to be an issue! It surprised me when he told me, but I think I had enough distance from the situation that I thought it was funny and it didn't hurt (especially because, obviously, it wasn't an issue anymore). Maybe a few years down the line you'll be able to laugh about the age difference, especially because that really does seem like less of an issue as you both get older.
posted by dlugoczaj at 1:12 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Second of all, even in the most successful relationships, there are often going to be weird points of resistance when you embark. And they're not always going to be what you think they are. I'm fat and I tend to expect partners to be slightly squicked by that at the beginning. Some years after we were married, I asked my husband about that very thing, and he said he was never squicked because I'm fat--but WAS slightly so because I have a weird little collection of skin tags on my neck, which I hardly ever think about and had never considered to be an issue! It surprised me when he told me, but I think I had enough distance from the situation that I thought it was funny and it didn't hurt (especially because, obviously, it wasn't an issue anymore). Maybe a few years down the line you'll be able to laugh about the age difference, especially because that really does seem like less of an issue as you both get older.
posted by dlugoczaj at 1:12 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think you need to let this go. Every new relationship is a chance to examine your idea of what you think you want in a partner and modify as necessary. He never expected to date an older woman, but he did and realized how great you are and that the age difference is a non-issue. That's what you need to take from your conversation, stop focusing on the negative. There's always a transition period as you come to accept that something that you always thought about yourself (or what you think you want) is untrue.
Before I met my boyfriend I was always adamant that I would never date a guy who is shorter than I...he is 3 inches shorter. He felt the same way about dating tall girls. For the first few months he was really uncomfortable when i put my arm around him...now he doesn't care. We joke about the height difference - he asks me to get stuff off the high shelf in the kitchen.
posted by jacindahb at 1:14 PM on September 5, 2013
Before I met my boyfriend I was always adamant that I would never date a guy who is shorter than I...he is 3 inches shorter. He felt the same way about dating tall girls. For the first few months he was really uncomfortable when i put my arm around him...now he doesn't care. We joke about the height difference - he asks me to get stuff off the high shelf in the kitchen.
posted by jacindahb at 1:14 PM on September 5, 2013
I am older than my husband by 7 years, and at one point during our relationship, he confessed something similar--that he had been weirded out by our age difference for a while, until he reflected on the parents of a friend of ours, who had a 12-year difference between themselves, and that pushed him to get over it.
I admit I took the opportunity to point out that we have another set of friends where the husband was my age and the wife was his, and that never bothered him. He blinked, realized that he'd never thought about their age difference even once, and realized that societal sexism programming had played a part in his original feelings.
Anyway, I agree that I think you're overreacting--his feelings are natural, given our society's scripts for "normal" relationships and how deeply they're ingrained. Your emotions are natural, too, but this is a case in which I think you should take a deep breath, remind yourself that you both have grown and changed, and get on with your relationship.
We have yet to tell his parents my age--at the beginning we had no idea how they'd react, and now it seems a bit weird, this many years on. They may have figured it out by now, but have politely never mentioned it.
posted by telophase at 2:53 PM on September 5, 2013
I admit I took the opportunity to point out that we have another set of friends where the husband was my age and the wife was his, and that never bothered him. He blinked, realized that he'd never thought about their age difference even once, and realized that societal sexism programming had played a part in his original feelings.
Anyway, I agree that I think you're overreacting--his feelings are natural, given our society's scripts for "normal" relationships and how deeply they're ingrained. Your emotions are natural, too, but this is a case in which I think you should take a deep breath, remind yourself that you both have grown and changed, and get on with your relationship.
We have yet to tell his parents my age--at the beginning we had no idea how they'd react, and now it seems a bit weird, this many years on. They may have figured it out by now, but have politely never mentioned it.
posted by telophase at 2:53 PM on September 5, 2013
My feelings would be hurt too. You're not over reacting; it feels bad to think that your sweetheart saw you as someone with whom he would be embarrassed to be holding hands in public. Especially when there is already lots of cultural baggage about women dating younger men.
That said, the hard part about this is that it isn't the way he feels about you now. He got over that; it was an acculturated idea, and he realized that you were awesomer than his concept of "how his sweetheart ought to be." And he is happy to be with you, and have Other People see him with you, now. So your hurt feelings relate to something in the past, something which is gone.
I would want to proceed with your boyfriend as he is now.
So how to get your feelings back to normal after feeling hurt by something in the past?
One thing that could help would be to lie down and imagine things through the emotions of your boyfriend. I mean, really lie down and try to imagine his love life through his own eyes. What was it like for him never to have had a serious relationship? What was it like for him, during those years alone, to imagine what he thought was the "perfect relationship" and what was he visualizing as the "perfect girlfriend"? What kind of tensions did he feel when he met you, realized that an actual relationship was starting, and that it had some tension with his preconceived notions? How attracted to you was he to overcome that tension, and the fear of what Other People were thinking? What did it feel like when he realized that his preconceived notion was dumb, and he was happy to be seen with you? What did it feel like to fall in love with you? What did it feel like to stick his foot in his mouth with you the other day?
If you truly go through these ideas and feelings in your imagination, if you lie down and imagine it, I think it might melt the icy sting you're feeling right now.
Because you make it sound like you guys really like and love one another, and because you make it sound like he's a fast learner who wants to do right by you, I hope you find a way to melt this icy feeling. It's understandable that you have it, but I think it's worth putting in the work to get over it. Be gentle with yourself, and gentle with him too if you can swing it. Good luck with it, Anon.
posted by feets at 4:30 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
That said, the hard part about this is that it isn't the way he feels about you now. He got over that; it was an acculturated idea, and he realized that you were awesomer than his concept of "how his sweetheart ought to be." And he is happy to be with you, and have Other People see him with you, now. So your hurt feelings relate to something in the past, something which is gone.
I would want to proceed with your boyfriend as he is now.
So how to get your feelings back to normal after feeling hurt by something in the past?
One thing that could help would be to lie down and imagine things through the emotions of your boyfriend. I mean, really lie down and try to imagine his love life through his own eyes. What was it like for him never to have had a serious relationship? What was it like for him, during those years alone, to imagine what he thought was the "perfect relationship" and what was he visualizing as the "perfect girlfriend"? What kind of tensions did he feel when he met you, realized that an actual relationship was starting, and that it had some tension with his preconceived notions? How attracted to you was he to overcome that tension, and the fear of what Other People were thinking? What did it feel like when he realized that his preconceived notion was dumb, and he was happy to be seen with you? What did it feel like to fall in love with you? What did it feel like to stick his foot in his mouth with you the other day?
If you truly go through these ideas and feelings in your imagination, if you lie down and imagine it, I think it might melt the icy sting you're feeling right now.
Because you make it sound like you guys really like and love one another, and because you make it sound like he's a fast learner who wants to do right by you, I hope you find a way to melt this icy feeling. It's understandable that you have it, but I think it's worth putting in the work to get over it. Be gentle with yourself, and gentle with him too if you can swing it. Good luck with it, Anon.
posted by feets at 4:30 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
The girl I'm dating used to think I was obnoxious. I probably am, but since she's gotten to know me she doesn't feel that way anymore. I felt a little hurt when I first heard it, but now I think it says a lot about the way she has come to care for me.
posted by jander03 at 10:16 PM on September 9, 2013
posted by jander03 at 10:16 PM on September 9, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
Everyone used to be dumb about everything. Learning is a lifelong process, and if you're going to be upset with him because he used to think something hurtful, then what happens when you find out the next guy you date used to hunt with his uncles, or drove a car that got shitty mileage on purpose, or did one of a hundred other things you find objectionable? People change. Be happy that this one changed the right way.
posted by Etrigan at 6:54 AM on September 5, 2013 [51 favorites]