How can I make my father's visits less frequent (and less excruciating)?
September 4, 2013 8:45 PM Subscribe
Background: My father (64) left home when I and my two siblings were teenagers (back in 1999). That came after a very turbulent period in his life which included substance abuse, bipolar disorder, violence (mostly psychological) against my mother, siblings and me, extramarital affairs, reluctance to contribute any money to his children's sustenance, losing his job as a moderately succesful university researcher, compulsive overspending, heavy indebtedness, systematic lying and an unspecified number of episodes of sexual molestation against my sister. After around four years of that chaos, my mother and father finally split up and he left with his mistress to live abroad. A few years later he came back by himself and started trying to reestablish links with his children and former wife.
Today: Relationships have been reestablished to an important degree, considering the circumstances. My father, who lives in another city, comes often to see me and my brother, with the pretext that he has to meet his (most likely imaginary) PhD supervisor here in town. My father is now in a very poor condition in every possible way: chronically ill, financially broke (he has occasionally asked me for money), psychologically disturbed (including demential fantasies about him being contacted by the president to undergo some secret mission) -and what affects me more-extremely clingy. He used to come for a few days every couple of months, which, if uncomfortable, was tolerable. But recently he has intensified his visits. He comes almost every month and stays for up to a week. This is an unpleasant experience in which I have, among other things, to hear his constant nonsensical talk about his illusory life, and deal with a cascade of unsolicited advice.
In his bouts of rationality, he confesses he regrets having hurt us and wants to reunite the family and retake where we left off. He says he feels terribly lonely and would like to spend the last years of his life with us.
I don´t want to completely remove him from my life, but I definitely do not want him coming over so often and staying for as long as he wants. As you can imagine, trying to negociate the terms and conditions of his visits is not easy. He has recently announced via e-mail he is coming in 2 weeks' time, and I have decided to tell him bluntly that I am extremely busy at the moment and cannot have him for at least another six more weeks (which happens to be true). He is likely to either 1) get very upset and depressed 2) ignore my remarks and reassure me that he will not interfere with my work and study (which I know is untrue).
I know this is the sort of thing one discusses with a therapist. I have talked to a few. I also know that different people can contribute different valuable points of view, so I would like to ask you:
How would you protect yourself from being drained by such a demanding and disturbed father?
Do you think it's possible to have a reasonable, safe, and moderately distant relationship with an unbalanced person you care for, yet don't want to see too often? How?
Today: Relationships have been reestablished to an important degree, considering the circumstances. My father, who lives in another city, comes often to see me and my brother, with the pretext that he has to meet his (most likely imaginary) PhD supervisor here in town. My father is now in a very poor condition in every possible way: chronically ill, financially broke (he has occasionally asked me for money), psychologically disturbed (including demential fantasies about him being contacted by the president to undergo some secret mission) -and what affects me more-extremely clingy. He used to come for a few days every couple of months, which, if uncomfortable, was tolerable. But recently he has intensified his visits. He comes almost every month and stays for up to a week. This is an unpleasant experience in which I have, among other things, to hear his constant nonsensical talk about his illusory life, and deal with a cascade of unsolicited advice.
In his bouts of rationality, he confesses he regrets having hurt us and wants to reunite the family and retake where we left off. He says he feels terribly lonely and would like to spend the last years of his life with us.
I don´t want to completely remove him from my life, but I definitely do not want him coming over so often and staying for as long as he wants. As you can imagine, trying to negociate the terms and conditions of his visits is not easy. He has recently announced via e-mail he is coming in 2 weeks' time, and I have decided to tell him bluntly that I am extremely busy at the moment and cannot have him for at least another six more weeks (which happens to be true). He is likely to either 1) get very upset and depressed 2) ignore my remarks and reassure me that he will not interfere with my work and study (which I know is untrue).
I know this is the sort of thing one discusses with a therapist. I have talked to a few. I also know that different people can contribute different valuable points of view, so I would like to ask you:
How would you protect yourself from being drained by such a demanding and disturbed father?
Do you think it's possible to have a reasonable, safe, and moderately distant relationship with an unbalanced person you care for, yet don't want to see too often? How?
If you are in the USA, get in touch with your local chapter of NAMI - National Alliance on Mental Illness. They have support groups and other resources for families.
posted by valannc at 8:57 PM on September 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by valannc at 8:57 PM on September 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
I will let others answer some of the heavier questions, but I have one piece of advice: When you tell him that he can't come in a few weeks, avoid excuses that can be argued. Go straight for "I'm sorry, that won't be possible." If you give him an excuse, he will give you a rebuttal. Just persist with "That's not possible," regardless of how much he asks for a reason. You know that no matter what he says he'll be upset, so try to avoid #2 as much as possible.
posted by brainmouse at 8:59 PM on September 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 8:59 PM on September 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: Outside the US, no NAMI or anything like that around here unfortunately.
posted by Basque13 at 9:11 PM on September 4, 2013
posted by Basque13 at 9:11 PM on September 4, 2013
If you are outside the US, you might try contacting the Society of St Vincent de Paul. In many countries they have a comprehensive human services network. They may have practical advice for you.
Also, your local mental health agency.
It would be good to have a list of resources... a cheap motel, or even a homeless shelter where your father can stay -- if he shows up after you've told him he can't stay with you. It's easier to turn away a visitor if you know a place to take them for shelter.
Good luck.
posted by valannc at 9:24 PM on September 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, your local mental health agency.
It would be good to have a list of resources... a cheap motel, or even a homeless shelter where your father can stay -- if he shows up after you've told him he can't stay with you. It's easier to turn away a visitor if you know a place to take them for shelter.
Good luck.
posted by valannc at 9:24 PM on September 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Okay, my mom is bipolar. My solution was to move 3,000 miles away ;) your mileage may vary. In all seriousness, I think my brother who lives nearby and I do a pretty good job of managing the crazy and the lonely. One thing I do that really helps: I call her most weekdays during my lunch hour. I try to call her either when I'm driving or when I can surf the inter webs; this means I can let her prattle on about whatever. It makes her happy and less lonely. I seem to tolerate this better than seeing her in person because really it's no skin off my back. So I would try to find time to call your dad and just let him talk while you do something else. My brother doesn't let my mom visit anymore (long story there), but he visits her (again on his lunch break or sometimes on the weekend). This puts him in control of the visits.
So in summary, I would try something like this. You know dad, I'm a too busy to host so let's do this instead: I'll plan to call you (x time on y dates) and ill come and have lunch with you on x date. If he complains stay firm and keep offering the phone calls and the lunch.
All these folks telling you to just walk away have never had a mentally ill parent. It's not that easy as you and I know. Good luck.
posted by bananafish at 9:40 PM on September 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
So in summary, I would try something like this. You know dad, I'm a too busy to host so let's do this instead: I'll plan to call you (x time on y dates) and ill come and have lunch with you on x date. If he complains stay firm and keep offering the phone calls and the lunch.
All these folks telling you to just walk away have never had a mentally ill parent. It's not that easy as you and I know. Good luck.
posted by bananafish at 9:40 PM on September 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
Are you sure that he remembers his visits? As in, is he aware of the frequency and duration of his stays with you?
I actually think that just telling him that he can't come is a good idea. I don't think that you'll be able to reason with him. If you're comfortable with it, you could add something like, "but I can call you next weekend and we can talk then!"
posted by easy, lucky, free at 10:20 PM on September 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I actually think that just telling him that he can't come is a good idea. I don't think that you'll be able to reason with him. If you're comfortable with it, you could add something like, "but I can call you next weekend and we can talk then!"
posted by easy, lucky, free at 10:20 PM on September 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
It may hurt--both of you--but I think you're just simply going to have to draw a line in the sand. If you will only allow him to stay for a day, then tell him that. This is general advice, but definitely applies here: learn to say no.
posted by zardoz at 10:28 PM on September 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by zardoz at 10:28 PM on September 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
You need to tell him no, but I'm assuming you can't, so:
Tell him that him staying with you one week out of the month is just too much for you (and your family? girlfriend? work or school commitments?), but it would be really nice (if that's not stretching it too far) to spend a day with him once a month somewhere else.
And then find middle ground (literally) where you can agree to meet for one weekend afternoon each month, maybe even an occasional overnight at a cheap hotel near a cool spot you both like to hang out (some beach or lake or mountain or forest?). Maybe schedule it as the first Saturday of the month or whatever, so he has something to look forward to and won't be bugging you about when and where the next meeting will be, because it will always be the first Saturday of the month at the agreed place, not at your place. You both take the bus to wherever and meet at a certain landmark at a certain time.
Then you are both away from the things that stress you and where you can, in the circumstances, best relax. And if things get weird, you can always say "Fuck this, papa, I'm going home now," pay his bill and yours, and just leave him there to find his own way home.
posted by pracowity at 1:53 AM on September 5, 2013 [6 favorites]
Tell him that him staying with you one week out of the month is just too much for you (and your family? girlfriend? work or school commitments?), but it would be really nice (if that's not stretching it too far) to spend a day with him once a month somewhere else.
And then find middle ground (literally) where you can agree to meet for one weekend afternoon each month, maybe even an occasional overnight at a cheap hotel near a cool spot you both like to hang out (some beach or lake or mountain or forest?). Maybe schedule it as the first Saturday of the month or whatever, so he has something to look forward to and won't be bugging you about when and where the next meeting will be, because it will always be the first Saturday of the month at the agreed place, not at your place. You both take the bus to wherever and meet at a certain landmark at a certain time.
Then you are both away from the things that stress you and where you can, in the circumstances, best relax. And if things get weird, you can always say "Fuck this, papa, I'm going home now," pay his bill and yours, and just leave him there to find his own way home.
posted by pracowity at 1:53 AM on September 5, 2013 [6 favorites]
Keep it comfortable. Can't handle in person contact, but can handle phone calls? Keep it to phone calls. Can't handle phone calls, but can handle email? Keep it to email. Can't handle email, but can handle written letters? Keep it to written letters. Can't handle any contact? You get the idea.
There are many ways people can choose to spend time with others beyond visitation. You just have to find the ones that aren't toxic or problematic.
Memail me if you want personal context.
posted by oceanjesse at 2:02 AM on September 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
There are many ways people can choose to spend time with others beyond visitation. You just have to find the ones that aren't toxic or problematic.
Memail me if you want personal context.
posted by oceanjesse at 2:02 AM on September 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Are you from a culture that places enormous emphasis on respectful relationships with family elders? Because if so, I think the solution may not be as clear cut as some people are suggesting.
I have decided to tell him bluntly that I am extremely busy at the moment and cannot have him for at least another six more weeks (which happens to be true). He is likely to either 1) get very upset and depressed 2) ignore my remarks and reassure me that he will not interfere with my work and study (which I know is untrue).
Then just decide that outcome 1 is fine; his upset isn't your problem. If he goes for outcome 2, you'll have to tell him that you are in lockdown mode and he simply isn't welcome to come and stay with you until the end of October.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:07 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have decided to tell him bluntly that I am extremely busy at the moment and cannot have him for at least another six more weeks (which happens to be true). He is likely to either 1) get very upset and depressed 2) ignore my remarks and reassure me that he will not interfere with my work and study (which I know is untrue).
Then just decide that outcome 1 is fine; his upset isn't your problem. If he goes for outcome 2, you'll have to tell him that you are in lockdown mode and he simply isn't welcome to come and stay with you until the end of October.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:07 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have similar characters in my family.
1. For the relationship part, let go of thinking of this person as your father. I'm sorry, but he can't function that way. The normal attachments and give-and-take don't apply here. Think of him instead as a hurt child. So be kind, and fair, and firm.
2. Schedule specific appointments to see him. Not "you come & visit" where he becomes a part of your life, but a time YOU set aside to have focused time with him. Maybe you meet him somewhere for 1-2 days. And schedule breaks in those 1-2 days. I tell some family members that I can do a half day or a full day and then 1 day break. And I accept nothing else.
3. Be prepared for emotional tantrums, bullying and general manipulation in order to get his way, at which time remember #1. Also be prepared to tune a lot out. I tune out 50-75% of certain family members' communications. It's sad you can't have a closer relationship, but their actions caused this limitation, not you.
4. These people will be hurt no matter what you do, so typical politeness is lost on them. Be incredibly direct (not angry but direct) and accept no bullshit. You simply just don't let him dictate schedule. I had made agreements to meet a family member at a certain time, for a weekend. 1 week later they call and say they've booked the flights for a completely different date & length that we'd agreed. I told them to point blank change the flight to what we'd agreed. "Oh but it will cost me to change it!" "Well that's what happens when you book a time that we didn't agree on." They changed it, and I never had that problem again. So yeah, Accept no bullshit. Don't be angry when dealing with them (it will set them off) but accept no bullshit. Know what you want, stick to it, and don't feel bad about it.
5. I'm sorry. It's rough and you're not alone - many families have "the one member" that launches emotional grenades all over the place. It's very common.
What other people have been saying is good - little sound bite contact in between can keep them satisfied.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:49 AM on September 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
1. For the relationship part, let go of thinking of this person as your father. I'm sorry, but he can't function that way. The normal attachments and give-and-take don't apply here. Think of him instead as a hurt child. So be kind, and fair, and firm.
2. Schedule specific appointments to see him. Not "you come & visit" where he becomes a part of your life, but a time YOU set aside to have focused time with him. Maybe you meet him somewhere for 1-2 days. And schedule breaks in those 1-2 days. I tell some family members that I can do a half day or a full day and then 1 day break. And I accept nothing else.
3. Be prepared for emotional tantrums, bullying and general manipulation in order to get his way, at which time remember #1. Also be prepared to tune a lot out. I tune out 50-75% of certain family members' communications. It's sad you can't have a closer relationship, but their actions caused this limitation, not you.
4. These people will be hurt no matter what you do, so typical politeness is lost on them. Be incredibly direct (not angry but direct) and accept no bullshit. You simply just don't let him dictate schedule. I had made agreements to meet a family member at a certain time, for a weekend. 1 week later they call and say they've booked the flights for a completely different date & length that we'd agreed. I told them to point blank change the flight to what we'd agreed. "Oh but it will cost me to change it!" "Well that's what happens when you book a time that we didn't agree on." They changed it, and I never had that problem again. So yeah, Accept no bullshit. Don't be angry when dealing with them (it will set them off) but accept no bullshit. Know what you want, stick to it, and don't feel bad about it.
5. I'm sorry. It's rough and you're not alone - many families have "the one member" that launches emotional grenades all over the place. It's very common.
What other people have been saying is good - little sound bite contact in between can keep them satisfied.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:49 AM on September 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have decided to tell him bluntly that I am extremely busy at the moment and cannot have him for at least another six more weeks (which happens to be true).
I'd phrase this differently: "I can't host you until October." Don't mention the reason, emphasize when he can visit. He may still argue with you (Why? I won't be any trouble) but it'll be easier for you to respond, "I know you'd like to visit in two weeks, but I can't host you at that time. You'll need to make other plans for that trip, but I can have you stay with me in six weeks." This is the clearest statement you can make.
That said, you ask if it's possible to have a reasonable, safe, and moderately distant relationship with an unbalanced person you care for, yet don't want to see too often. That's tough, given this:
In his bouts of rationality, he confesses he regrets having hurt us and wants to reunite the family and retake where we left off. He says he feels terribly lonely and would like to spend the last years of his life with us.
I know that mental healthcare options vary depending on where you are. And I know that treatment for severe mental illness can be unpleasant. However, if he has moments during which he is rational and understands that he has hurt his family, but yet does not seek serious help, I think that's a pretty clear statement that he is not a safe person for you to trust. These confessions of regret are little more than self-pity if they're not backed up with action. You should not take them as any type of indication that he is someone you can have that safe, reasonable, and moderately distant relationship with--quite the opposite, actually.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:57 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'd phrase this differently: "I can't host you until October." Don't mention the reason, emphasize when he can visit. He may still argue with you (Why? I won't be any trouble) but it'll be easier for you to respond, "I know you'd like to visit in two weeks, but I can't host you at that time. You'll need to make other plans for that trip, but I can have you stay with me in six weeks." This is the clearest statement you can make.
That said, you ask if it's possible to have a reasonable, safe, and moderately distant relationship with an unbalanced person you care for, yet don't want to see too often. That's tough, given this:
In his bouts of rationality, he confesses he regrets having hurt us and wants to reunite the family and retake where we left off. He says he feels terribly lonely and would like to spend the last years of his life with us.
I know that mental healthcare options vary depending on where you are. And I know that treatment for severe mental illness can be unpleasant. However, if he has moments during which he is rational and understands that he has hurt his family, but yet does not seek serious help, I think that's a pretty clear statement that he is not a safe person for you to trust. These confessions of regret are little more than self-pity if they're not backed up with action. You should not take them as any type of indication that he is someone you can have that safe, reasonable, and moderately distant relationship with--quite the opposite, actually.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:57 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
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The problem you have is your statment "I don´t want to completely remove him from my life", that may not be possible.
posted by HuronBob at 8:54 PM on September 4, 2013 [6 favorites]