How to help things go well
August 30, 2013 4:35 PM Subscribe
My friend began dating an acquaintance a few months after meeting, and became pregnant 2 months after that. She is in her later 30s, divorced, he is in his mid 30s, never married. She decided to keep the baby.
He was here in the US on contract and had to return to his home country (the Netherlands) within a few months. After a lot of indecision, they decided the best thing to do was for her to leave her job and join him in the Netherlands, and marry in order to make that easier. They are now married, about 8 months after first meeting.
I would appreciate hearing some best practices on how they can make this work out, or things that she can do on her own to make the situation easier. If she had not become pregnant, there would be been no way they would have married at this point. They are still getting to know each other.
I would appreciate hearing thoughts from people who have been in this situation (unexpected pregnancy, quick marriage to a relative stranger): the things that helped, the things that could have been done differently, and the things that couldn't have been helped no matter what you had tried.
He was here in the US on contract and had to return to his home country (the Netherlands) within a few months. After a lot of indecision, they decided the best thing to do was for her to leave her job and join him in the Netherlands, and marry in order to make that easier. They are now married, about 8 months after first meeting.
I would appreciate hearing some best practices on how they can make this work out, or things that she can do on her own to make the situation easier. If she had not become pregnant, there would be been no way they would have married at this point. They are still getting to know each other.
I would appreciate hearing thoughts from people who have been in this situation (unexpected pregnancy, quick marriage to a relative stranger): the things that helped, the things that could have been done differently, and the things that couldn't have been helped no matter what you had tried.
My parents married after dating for a short period of time because my mom was pregnant with me. They've been happily married for almost 30 years. It's hard work. Marriage counseling is probably the best thing any couple can do to improve their marriage. Helped my parents and helped me.
posted by ancient star at 4:42 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ancient star at 4:42 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Sorry, to be clear, are you asking for help on how to help your friend? Or do you want help with how to process the situation? Has she asked for specific help or do you want a selection of general things to discuss, should she ask about it? Just a little unclear on the scope of the question.
posted by barnone at 5:31 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by barnone at 5:31 PM on August 30, 2013
Response by poster: Sorry not to be clear. Seeking advice for her rather than for me; she wants to do what she can to make this go well.
posted by galenka at 5:37 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by galenka at 5:37 PM on August 30, 2013
Marriage counseling, now. The disadvantage to marrying so soon after meeting is that there's no opportunity to sort of erode over time into mutually pleasing shapes, you're just jammed together into the tube, pointy parts and all. (That metaphor kind of got away from me. Sorry.) Meeting with someone who can help you learn tools to communicate effectively and figure out what you need to accommodate BEFORE things go pear-shaped in a crisis can make the difference.
posted by KathrynT at 6:07 PM on August 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 6:07 PM on August 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
We did this! +1, would do again. Well, we didn't do it quite so dramatically, and no international move was involved, but the same general idea. And we are very happy with an adorable child too. The thing is, having a baby is a huge change for any relationship, so I'm not sure that having years together necessarily insulates you from strife. Of course it would be much more responsible to do it the old fashioned way, but that doesn't always happen. As long as the two people are open and roll with it, and trust and genuinely like each other, then I'm convinced it can work just as well as any other configuration.
posted by yarly at 6:44 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by yarly at 6:44 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
We did this too. Would do again. I don't exactly know why it worked, it just did. Probably your friend knows in her heart there is something special about this man, and it's okay for her to trust that and go with it right now. Plus, it's not like they're children. Things speed up north of 30.
Don't go looking for trouble where there isn't trouble. Lots of irresponsible pairings end up working out beautifully, and lots don't. I think the same is true for people who do everything "right." At the end of the day the rules for having a happy relationship aren't different. Pay attention, stay in love, forgive, take care of yourself.
posted by annekate at 8:51 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Don't go looking for trouble where there isn't trouble. Lots of irresponsible pairings end up working out beautifully, and lots don't. I think the same is true for people who do everything "right." At the end of the day the rules for having a happy relationship aren't different. Pay attention, stay in love, forgive, take care of yourself.
posted by annekate at 8:51 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
My sister emigrated from Canada to the Netherlands and married there. She learned Dutch and requalified for her profession, but she also got to know a lot of other emigré women from the U.S. and Canada and other English-speaking places. She noticed that the women who failed to learn Dutch tended to be much less happy and more dissatisfied with their lives – they often felt trapped, unable to get work or socialize much outside the home. So I suggest she should start learning the language formally as soon as she can, if she has not already.
Obviously a lot of Dutch folks do speak English, but not all of them do and if you want to live fully in any country a major step is to learn the language.
posted by zadcat at 9:35 PM on August 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
Obviously a lot of Dutch folks do speak English, but not all of them do and if you want to live fully in any country a major step is to learn the language.
posted by zadcat at 9:35 PM on August 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
Before she moves to another country, she should investigate what spousal rights and child custody laws will apply if things go south with the marriage.
She should also look at what citizenship laws will apply if the child is born in various countries.
If she moves overseas to live with this person she barely knows, she needs a plan for staying in touch with friends and family she does know, what they should do if they don't hear from her for a certain time period, and what she can do if she were to end up in a dangerous situation. Part of this is going to be to set up code words, both to use if she needs help and can't ask for it directly, and to use if she needs to request money to confirm that it is indeed her.
posted by yohko at 8:19 PM on August 31, 2013
She should also look at what citizenship laws will apply if the child is born in various countries.
If she moves overseas to live with this person she barely knows, she needs a plan for staying in touch with friends and family she does know, what they should do if they don't hear from her for a certain time period, and what she can do if she were to end up in a dangerous situation. Part of this is going to be to set up code words, both to use if she needs help and can't ask for it directly, and to use if she needs to request money to confirm that it is indeed her.
posted by yohko at 8:19 PM on August 31, 2013
Someone very dear to me did this, they have just celebrated their first wedding anniversary.
Thing is, in your 30s, pregnancy is a lot more of a pressing reason to marry than it is in your 20s. In your late 30s babies are not so easy to come by! It is worth it for a couple at this stage of their lives to take a chance on forming a relationship, having conceived a child together.
Maternity rights and allowances in Western Europe are generally excellent - as is provision for maternity leave - and she should research her eligibility. And seek out Dutch language classes. After all the child will surely be bi-lingual. As a couple I guess they will come to an agreement as to which language is mainly spoken in the home.
she should investigate what spousal rights and child custody laws will apply if things go south with the marriage. Yes, she should surely do this, but they are likely to be very fair. I truly don't think there is anything you will be able to tell her that she isn't in a much better position to find out about herself? Since she is already living in the country in question.
posted by glasseyes at 11:58 AM on September 1, 2013
Thing is, in your 30s, pregnancy is a lot more of a pressing reason to marry than it is in your 20s. In your late 30s babies are not so easy to come by! It is worth it for a couple at this stage of their lives to take a chance on forming a relationship, having conceived a child together.
Maternity rights and allowances in Western Europe are generally excellent - as is provision for maternity leave - and she should research her eligibility. And seek out Dutch language classes. After all the child will surely be bi-lingual. As a couple I guess they will come to an agreement as to which language is mainly spoken in the home.
she should investigate what spousal rights and child custody laws will apply if things go south with the marriage. Yes, she should surely do this, but they are likely to be very fair. I truly don't think there is anything you will be able to tell her that she isn't in a much better position to find out about herself? Since she is already living in the country in question.
posted by glasseyes at 11:58 AM on September 1, 2013
Having read the question again, you don't say whether the baby has been born yet. I have been told that in the Netherlands there is a great deal of state support for new mothers: she can and should make use of these to acclimatise herself to the country and get herself a peer group of young mums/potential friends. That will help her not to be completely emotionally dependent on her new husband, which would be a heavy responsibility, extra to those of being a new father.
From expatica.com:
Help! I’m pregnant in Holland
• Make sure you know what your medical insurance covers you for so there are no nasty surprises at a time when the less stress the better!
• Register with a midwife early, usually before the seventh week. Talk to people to get recommendations and make sure English is not a problem if your Dutch is a little patchy.
• Register yourself with a ‘kraamzorg’ agency, preferably before the 12th week of pregnancy. Your midwife can direct you to organisations they partner with and your health insurance provider must be contacted to ensure your chosen kraamzorg is approved by them.
• Decide where you want your baby delivered – the Dutch are big believers in home births so make it clear if you want a hospital birth.
• Pain relief? The rate of epidural use in the Netherlands is low and there is an absence of anaesthetists available out of ‘normal’ hours so do your homework to find out which hospitals can honour your request for pain relief.
• Choose a prenatal group carefully. Language is a first consideration. How much do you want your partner involved? Many Dutch groups concentrate on breathing techniques for natural births.
Also: Postnatal care
Most probably the main merit of giving birth in The Netherlands lies in the postnatal care. It is not unusual to be out of hospital a matter of hours after your baby is born.
There is a logical explanation for the short post natal care in Dutch hospitals; kraamzorg. This is a maternity care assistant and the envy of many a woman outside of Holland. This type of maternity care is pretty much unique to The Netherlands. For at least a week after the birth professional help is on hand. During a home birth the maternity care assistant supports the midwife and after a hospital birth the maternity care assistant is on your doorstep within hours of leaving hospital. If your baby is born at night expect an overnight stay in hospital as the kraamzorg service is not available after hours.
Kraamzorg duties range from care for the new mother and infant, light household duties, guidance on breast feeding and baby care and looking after other family members (such as other children). For expatriates away from their support network this assistance can prove invaluable.
posted by glasseyes at 12:18 PM on September 1, 2013
From expatica.com:
Help! I’m pregnant in Holland
• Make sure you know what your medical insurance covers you for so there are no nasty surprises at a time when the less stress the better!
• Register with a midwife early, usually before the seventh week. Talk to people to get recommendations and make sure English is not a problem if your Dutch is a little patchy.
• Register yourself with a ‘kraamzorg’ agency, preferably before the 12th week of pregnancy. Your midwife can direct you to organisations they partner with and your health insurance provider must be contacted to ensure your chosen kraamzorg is approved by them.
• Decide where you want your baby delivered – the Dutch are big believers in home births so make it clear if you want a hospital birth.
• Pain relief? The rate of epidural use in the Netherlands is low and there is an absence of anaesthetists available out of ‘normal’ hours so do your homework to find out which hospitals can honour your request for pain relief.
• Choose a prenatal group carefully. Language is a first consideration. How much do you want your partner involved? Many Dutch groups concentrate on breathing techniques for natural births.
Also: Postnatal care
Most probably the main merit of giving birth in The Netherlands lies in the postnatal care. It is not unusual to be out of hospital a matter of hours after your baby is born.
There is a logical explanation for the short post natal care in Dutch hospitals; kraamzorg. This is a maternity care assistant and the envy of many a woman outside of Holland. This type of maternity care is pretty much unique to The Netherlands. For at least a week after the birth professional help is on hand. During a home birth the maternity care assistant supports the midwife and after a hospital birth the maternity care assistant is on your doorstep within hours of leaving hospital. If your baby is born at night expect an overnight stay in hospital as the kraamzorg service is not available after hours.
Kraamzorg duties range from care for the new mother and infant, light household duties, guidance on breast feeding and baby care and looking after other family members (such as other children). For expatriates away from their support network this assistance can prove invaluable.
posted by glasseyes at 12:18 PM on September 1, 2013
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posted by galenka at 4:41 PM on August 30, 2013