By the way, your web designer is no good.
August 30, 2013 12:59 PM Subscribe
How should I handle advising my former employer that their contracted web designer does terrible work? Or do I stay out of it? Details inside.
I just left a job with a small non-profit in Washington, DC to start at a new position with much better pay, responsibilities, and location. I worked for Employer for a short and sweet 5 months and left on good terms with all my superiors and co-workers. I am a web designer and web developer but in that position I just did web development and IT support (so no design, although I was included in the design review process and was a 'production artist' for our websites).
The contractor graphic designer, a part of our tiny communications and IT team, was tasked with revamping our dozen or so circa-2001 website designs. Our brand was going through a complete overhaul and these websites are a major part of the organization, which is focused on dissemination of information. Designer was working as a contractor for Employer, about 20 hrs/week, for almost 18 months. By the time I was hired, the team was tight-knit and settled in. Designer was given a raise shortly after I was hired.
Now here is the problem:
Designer's publication and graphic design is effective, beautiful, and modern. But when it comes to web design, Designer is not effective at all. The first two websites Designer designed went from looking circa-2001 to circa-2007. They are honestly just horrible. I know that Employer is paying very good money and time for Designer's services and this project is a huge part of Employer's re-branding overhaul. Designer still has close to a dozen websites left to design for Employer within the next year. Employer is totally happy with Designer's work, because Employer just has no experience with web design and the president is a techno-phobe.
I still personally care for my supervisor at that job. I still care about the success of the organization. After looking at their new websites again today, I suddenly wished that I could just email my supervisor and tell her what I feel off the record.
Why didn't I say something while working there? Honestly, I don't know. I was on the bottom rung of the ladder and it was my first "real" job outside of college. I felt like it was not my place. I still feel like it is not my place, but what do I have to lose anymore?
There are two people I could talk to about this:
1. My former supervisor, head of Communications. I have a personal email on file for this person.
2. A former coworker, who has asked me to do contract work with him for a side company.
So hivemind, should I say something? How should I word it? Or do I just butt out?
I just left a job with a small non-profit in Washington, DC to start at a new position with much better pay, responsibilities, and location. I worked for Employer for a short and sweet 5 months and left on good terms with all my superiors and co-workers. I am a web designer and web developer but in that position I just did web development and IT support (so no design, although I was included in the design review process and was a 'production artist' for our websites).
The contractor graphic designer, a part of our tiny communications and IT team, was tasked with revamping our dozen or so circa-2001 website designs. Our brand was going through a complete overhaul and these websites are a major part of the organization, which is focused on dissemination of information. Designer was working as a contractor for Employer, about 20 hrs/week, for almost 18 months. By the time I was hired, the team was tight-knit and settled in. Designer was given a raise shortly after I was hired.
Now here is the problem:
Designer's publication and graphic design is effective, beautiful, and modern. But when it comes to web design, Designer is not effective at all. The first two websites Designer designed went from looking circa-2001 to circa-2007. They are honestly just horrible. I know that Employer is paying very good money and time for Designer's services and this project is a huge part of Employer's re-branding overhaul. Designer still has close to a dozen websites left to design for Employer within the next year. Employer is totally happy with Designer's work, because Employer just has no experience with web design and the president is a techno-phobe.
I still personally care for my supervisor at that job. I still care about the success of the organization. After looking at their new websites again today, I suddenly wished that I could just email my supervisor and tell her what I feel off the record.
Why didn't I say something while working there? Honestly, I don't know. I was on the bottom rung of the ladder and it was my first "real" job outside of college. I felt like it was not my place. I still feel like it is not my place, but what do I have to lose anymore?
There are two people I could talk to about this:
1. My former supervisor, head of Communications. I have a personal email on file for this person.
2. A former coworker, who has asked me to do contract work with him for a side company.
So hivemind, should I say something? How should I word it? Or do I just butt out?
Not your problem. They'll ask you if they want your opinion.
That's as far as you need to go for your answer.
Further, if they ask you, feel free to request a consulting rate to provide an opinion.
posted by saeculorum at 1:03 PM on August 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
That's as far as you need to go for your answer.
Further, if they ask you, feel free to request a consulting rate to provide an opinion.
posted by saeculorum at 1:03 PM on August 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
I still feel like it is not my place, but what do I have to lose anymore?
Your credibility. What you are proposing really isn't done in the business world, and it would not be well received.
posted by Wordwoman at 1:10 PM on August 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
Your credibility. What you are proposing really isn't done in the business world, and it would not be well received.
posted by Wordwoman at 1:10 PM on August 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
What do you think they will do with the information, especially since their new sites just went up? "Hi, I know you paid this person money to design the site, but it looks terrible." Then what? Do you think they will hire someone else to redo all that work? Almost definitely not, and now you just look unprofessional.
There's no upside to saying anything.
posted by desjardins at 1:20 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
There's no upside to saying anything.
posted by desjardins at 1:20 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'd let it go. Your heart is in the right place, but I really don't see how you could express this in a way that doesn't come across as "you guys are total idiots if you think this is good site design." You're probably going to end up looking bad, especially if the designer has been working there far longer than you did.
If it makes you feel any better, unless we're talking something like this, most casual users are probably not going to be too thrown by a less-than-fully-modernized set of websites.
posted by DingoMutt at 1:22 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
If it makes you feel any better, unless we're talking something like this, most casual users are probably not going to be too thrown by a less-than-fully-modernized set of websites.
posted by DingoMutt at 1:22 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just to clarify: There are about a dozen more websites this person will be designing, this is just the beginning of all the web design work. If it was just one website that was already done and finished, it would be different.
posted by daisies at 1:22 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by daisies at 1:22 PM on August 30, 2013
What matters is that the client is happy with the work. Now, if this designer is doing something that is actively detrimental to the org that nobody there has the technical expertise to understand, that might be the one time it's appropriate to butt in. In that case, it might be appropriate to arrange a lunch with someone you know well from your time there and plant the seed in a low-stakes way. I'd still stay out of it unless it's a really big freakin' deal like what the designer is doing is going to cause the org to lose thousands of people's personal information and lead to a PR disaster, large legal bills, and liability to third parties.
What it sounds like is actually happening is that the new design is perfectly functional and aesthetically pleasing, but not in keeping with what the kids are doing. In that case, it's not your place to tell someone they shouldn't be happy with it because it's a matter of opinion.
posted by wierdo at 1:22 PM on August 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
What it sounds like is actually happening is that the new design is perfectly functional and aesthetically pleasing, but not in keeping with what the kids are doing. In that case, it's not your place to tell someone they shouldn't be happy with it because it's a matter of opinion.
posted by wierdo at 1:22 PM on August 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
degustibus non disputandem est. Looks ain't everything. But they may in fact like the way it looks. OTOH if there is a problem with the code, and something is not working I would mention it to a friendly former co-worker.
posted by Gungho at 1:35 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Gungho at 1:35 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
no. do not say anything. this will merely reflect poorly on you and look like you want them to hire you for the work instead. you left on good terms and may want to use them for references in the future so it is not a good idea to jeopardize that.
posted by wildflower at 1:40 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by wildflower at 1:40 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
What you are proposing here is informing people that what they [already] see [with their own eyes] is terrible. I am sure you have good intentions but it won't necessarily be perceived that way (1).
(1) What I am referring to here is the tendency of people in our industry (software engineering and graphic design) to "audit" other people's work. Whenever you have the urge to audit - unless of course it is specifically your job - try to understand that the people on the receiving end usually don't see you as a guru raining down valuable advice but rather as a person with a superior attitude and lack of experience. You probably envision your former boss being grateful but busy people with responsibilities (i.e. people who have an impact your career) tend to get annoyed when they have to deal with the "auditor" in a professional manner, i.e. address their concerns, maintain an email trail of decisions being made, make sure the parties involved don't get offended, and so on.
posted by rada at 1:40 PM on August 30, 2013 [7 favorites]
(1) What I am referring to here is the tendency of people in our industry (software engineering and graphic design) to "audit" other people's work. Whenever you have the urge to audit - unless of course it is specifically your job - try to understand that the people on the receiving end usually don't see you as a guru raining down valuable advice but rather as a person with a superior attitude and lack of experience. You probably envision your former boss being grateful but busy people with responsibilities (i.e. people who have an impact your career) tend to get annoyed when they have to deal with the "auditor" in a professional manner, i.e. address their concerns, maintain an email trail of decisions being made, make sure the parties involved don't get offended, and so on.
posted by rada at 1:40 PM on August 30, 2013 [7 favorites]
Yeah, you should have said something while you were there. No matter what you say now, it looks like sour grapes and a potential pissing match. If they solicit your opinion I think it would be fine to give it.
posted by cnc at 1:43 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by cnc at 1:43 PM on August 30, 2013
It sounds like you are considering telling your former supervisor, who you may want to use as a reference at some point, what terrible taste they have in approving what you feel are the awful designs of someone they supervise.
Some people find sites with 2007-era design to be quite functional and useful.
Also, you don't really seem like the sort of person who avoids using a site because the design isn't current yourself. Perhaps this isn't the issue you think it is.
posted by yohko at 1:43 PM on August 30, 2013
Some people find sites with 2007-era design to be quite functional and useful.
Also, you don't really seem like the sort of person who avoids using a site because the design isn't current yourself. Perhaps this isn't the issue you think it is.
posted by yohko at 1:43 PM on August 30, 2013
You don't work there any more. So stop working there.
posted by spilon at 1:45 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by spilon at 1:45 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
former employer == stay out of it, automatically and always.
posted by ook at 1:47 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by ook at 1:47 PM on August 30, 2013
Don't look back.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:49 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:49 PM on August 30, 2013
Stay out of it. You're not the client. Some of the horrible things might have been explicitly requested by the client. If you offer your unsolicited opinion, you're likely to look unprofessional and pretentious.
Truth be told, there are more ugly/annoying/difficult websites than beautiful ones, and it doesn't seem to matter a whole bunch. And every time a popular website undergoes a major design, there's no shortage of people complaining about how awful the new design is, yet life goes on.
It's embarrassing when a former employer or client decides to uglify things, but it will happen. Not much you can do.
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:55 PM on August 30, 2013
Truth be told, there are more ugly/annoying/difficult websites than beautiful ones, and it doesn't seem to matter a whole bunch. And every time a popular website undergoes a major design, there's no shortage of people complaining about how awful the new design is, yet life goes on.
It's embarrassing when a former employer or client decides to uglify things, but it will happen. Not much you can do.
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:55 PM on August 30, 2013
Stay out of it. The Employer is happy, and your unsolicited advice runs the risk of making you appear unprofessional.
posted by sm1tten at 2:15 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by sm1tten at 2:15 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is not your business, and you will ruin your credibility if you bite the hand that fed you by criticizing its choices.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:50 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:50 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Another expanded way to look at it, as someone who's slightly fallen in to this type of "oh, one more thing" trap.
Assuming the BEST POSSIBLE outcome where they go "Well golly gee fuck, we need to fix that crap asap then!"...
You are now married to this project. In the absolute la la land fantasy version of this, you are going to be thrust in to this shit and made to deal with it and the entire hit yourself in the face with a hammer process of "Well i agree with you, but tell XYZ other people why they should do this". It'll be like that Kevin Smith superman bit where you're now the salesman, being shuffled around from person to person to convince everyone who needs to push the so you think you can dance style buzzer button.
And after that? now 99% chance you have to work with designer guy who you respected who probably now resents the shit out of you. If not, now you have whatever deadline he had to star from scratch and do everything.
I can't imagine a way this plays out without them(correctly, honestly!) thinking you're trying to jam your weiner in the works here. The best possible outcome for you is that they contract to you to do this shit.
Under really terrible circumstances.
And this is of course ignoring the fact all of that is incredibly unlikely. This is a "Best case scenario i get punched in the face" type of situation here.
Any action you take here will have a negative result for you even if you're in the twilight zone universe and it results in a "job" for you. Never bring this up again. People a couple of stations down the train track from you who have done shit like this REALLY wish they could go back and unsay "Hey, you know this is what i think about this. Shouldn't it be done XYZ way instead?" because you either get whack-a-moled in some way or now it's CONGRATULATIONS GOOD JOB SOLDIER NOW GO FIX IT.
"a problem without a solution is just another problem" really applies here, among a million other things.
posted by emptythought at 2:54 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Assuming the BEST POSSIBLE outcome where they go "Well golly gee fuck, we need to fix that crap asap then!"...
You are now married to this project. In the absolute la la land fantasy version of this, you are going to be thrust in to this shit and made to deal with it and the entire hit yourself in the face with a hammer process of "Well i agree with you, but tell XYZ other people why they should do this". It'll be like that Kevin Smith superman bit where you're now the salesman, being shuffled around from person to person to convince everyone who needs to push the so you think you can dance style buzzer button.
And after that? now 99% chance you have to work with designer guy who you respected who probably now resents the shit out of you. If not, now you have whatever deadline he had to star from scratch and do everything.
I can't imagine a way this plays out without them(correctly, honestly!) thinking you're trying to jam your weiner in the works here. The best possible outcome for you is that they contract to you to do this shit.
Under really terrible circumstances.
And this is of course ignoring the fact all of that is incredibly unlikely. This is a "Best case scenario i get punched in the face" type of situation here.
Any action you take here will have a negative result for you even if you're in the twilight zone universe and it results in a "job" for you. Never bring this up again. People a couple of stations down the train track from you who have done shit like this REALLY wish they could go back and unsay "Hey, you know this is what i think about this. Shouldn't it be done XYZ way instead?" because you either get whack-a-moled in some way or now it's CONGRATULATIONS GOOD JOB SOLDIER NOW GO FIX IT.
"a problem without a solution is just another problem" really applies here, among a million other things.
posted by emptythought at 2:54 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
This is a tricky thing for you, because you think you know better what would work for your former employer. But they're still paying Designer, so they must feel like they're getting good value.
Further, Designer has had a relationship with your former employer longer than you have. Five months is a blip. There is a nonzero chance that Designer understands the project requirements (including all constraints imposed by the business) much better than you do. There are often realities and limitations that designers don't understand when they're auditing someone else's design. Which is why--even though I've been doing this work since 1996--I will never evaluate someone's site or call it a bad design without understanding the business goals and requirements, in addition to as much of the political landscape as I can grok.
It's never a wise thing to do to give an unsolicited "Hey, I thought you should know your design sucks" opinion. Because you might find that the person on the receiving end of your opinion had some responsibility for it. And you might be standing on a bridge that just caught on fire.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 3:53 PM on August 30, 2013
Further, Designer has had a relationship with your former employer longer than you have. Five months is a blip. There is a nonzero chance that Designer understands the project requirements (including all constraints imposed by the business) much better than you do. There are often realities and limitations that designers don't understand when they're auditing someone else's design. Which is why--even though I've been doing this work since 1996--I will never evaluate someone's site or call it a bad design without understanding the business goals and requirements, in addition to as much of the political landscape as I can grok.
It's never a wise thing to do to give an unsolicited "Hey, I thought you should know your design sucks" opinion. Because you might find that the person on the receiving end of your opinion had some responsibility for it. And you might be standing on a bridge that just caught on fire.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 3:53 PM on August 30, 2013
Former employer...
posted by humboldt32 at 4:36 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by humboldt32 at 4:36 PM on August 30, 2013
Work to be better than yourself, not other people.
posted by macinchik at 10:50 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by macinchik at 10:50 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just to help beat this one into the ground...
Employer is totally happy with Designer's work, because Employer just has no experience with web design and the president is a techno-phobe.
Even if the designs they're getting are actually problematic for the organization (which is probably debatable), you can't save an organization from its boss unless you're in a position to become the new boss. You aren't in such a position. Let it go.
posted by jon1270 at 2:57 AM on August 31, 2013
Employer is totally happy with Designer's work, because Employer just has no experience with web design and the president is a techno-phobe.
Even if the designs they're getting are actually problematic for the organization (which is probably debatable), you can't save an organization from its boss unless you're in a position to become the new boss. You aren't in such a position. Let it go.
posted by jon1270 at 2:57 AM on August 31, 2013
If this is a normally talented designer as you say, there is a good chance the sites look like that because they have been instructed to design them like that.
I say this as someone who has designed websites for technophobes, which is its own circle in hell.
posted by Dynex at 8:55 AM on August 31, 2013 [5 favorites]
I say this as someone who has designed websites for technophobes, which is its own circle in hell.
posted by Dynex at 8:55 AM on August 31, 2013 [5 favorites]
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Not your problem. They'll ask you if they want your opinion.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 1:01 PM on August 30, 2013 [13 favorites]