Social Site
July 20, 2013 7:25 PM Subscribe
I was just wondering if you come up with an idea for a social media type site, how do you go about protecting the idea as your own? Is there some sort of intellectual property or something you can get on it?
If there isn't, is there any way you can claim your idea or protect it? If that is the case, why hasn't there been other sites that are similar to Facebook or Twitter, or even YouTube, that have popped up? How do these sites protect themselves against that? Or more directly, how did they protect themselves from it before the sites became so big? Are there sites out there similar to these that we just don't hear about because they're not heavily promoted?
I take it these sites make their money from ads, but I don't know anyone who ever buys something they've clicked on.
Just curious as to how it all works (or doesn't).
Thanks!
If there isn't, is there any way you can claim your idea or protect it? If that is the case, why hasn't there been other sites that are similar to Facebook or Twitter, or even YouTube, that have popped up? How do these sites protect themselves against that? Or more directly, how did they protect themselves from it before the sites became so big? Are there sites out there similar to these that we just don't hear about because they're not heavily promoted?
I take it these sites make their money from ads, but I don't know anyone who ever buys something they've clicked on.
Just curious as to how it all works (or doesn't).
Thanks!
Making a website that can handle the amount of traffic like twitter and Facebook and other highly dynamic sites do is not easy. Execution is extremely important.
That said, clones abound. In terms of legal protection, patents would be the avenue to pursue for innovative ideas about how a website works.
posted by demiurge at 7:57 PM on July 20, 2013
That said, clones abound. In terms of legal protection, patents would be the avenue to pursue for innovative ideas about how a website works.
posted by demiurge at 7:57 PM on July 20, 2013
Best answer: You can trademark a name so no one else can use your name for a social media site.
You can patent very small parts of a site if the interface does something truly unique. (For example Amazon doesn't have a patent on shopping sites, but it does (controversially) on 1-click ordering.)
Otherwise the only protection a budding startup has is staying in stealth mode until they launch.
As to why there aren't other sites similar to Facebook, Twitter, etc, is that there are. There are hundreds (probably thousands) of them. But as yet none of them have the numbers to beat out the big guys. Social networks only work if there are a lot of users, so the chances of someone new taking over... is low unless one is on the way out. (See: Friendster) Otherwise they need to get started in a small community (see: Facebook) and grow from there, or spend tens of millions in advertising, which, really, no startup would ever do any more.
Site like these generally make money from showing the ads, not the clicks. The money comes from people placing the ads, not the people viewing them. Just like TV, radio, and print. Advertisers are paying for access to your eye and ear holes.
And you probably have heard of new social sites, but you may not have recognized them as such. Popular new sites/services like Quora, Airbnb, and Uber all are specialized social networks.
posted by Ookseer at 7:59 PM on July 20, 2013
You can patent very small parts of a site if the interface does something truly unique. (For example Amazon doesn't have a patent on shopping sites, but it does (controversially) on 1-click ordering.)
Otherwise the only protection a budding startup has is staying in stealth mode until they launch.
As to why there aren't other sites similar to Facebook, Twitter, etc, is that there are. There are hundreds (probably thousands) of them. But as yet none of them have the numbers to beat out the big guys. Social networks only work if there are a lot of users, so the chances of someone new taking over... is low unless one is on the way out. (See: Friendster) Otherwise they need to get started in a small community (see: Facebook) and grow from there, or spend tens of millions in advertising, which, really, no startup would ever do any more.
Site like these generally make money from showing the ads, not the clicks. The money comes from people placing the ads, not the people viewing them. Just like TV, radio, and print. Advertisers are paying for access to your eye and ear holes.
And you probably have heard of new social sites, but you may not have recognized them as such. Popular new sites/services like Quora, Airbnb, and Uber all are specialized social networks.
posted by Ookseer at 7:59 PM on July 20, 2013
Sites like that are major beneficiaries of "network effect". In some cases it can reach a level that's insurmountable for competitors.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:18 PM on July 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:18 PM on July 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
If there isn't, is there any way you can claim your idea or protect it?
my IP lawyer friend always says "you can't copyright an idea".
If that is the case, why hasn't there been other sites that are similar to Facebook or Twitter, or even YouTube, that have popped up?
there have been other sites e.g. friendster but these days newer ones tend not to take off with the hegemony that FB now has. also, it is super expensive when you have millions on your site.
Are there sites out there similar to these that we just don't hear about because they're not heavily promoted?
yes, i remember seeing an article a couple years ago, possibly in the LA or NY Times, that talked about competition for FB. the focus was on developing sites that wouldn't give advertisers access to people's info.
posted by wildflower at 1:36 AM on July 21, 2013
my IP lawyer friend always says "you can't copyright an idea".
If that is the case, why hasn't there been other sites that are similar to Facebook or Twitter, or even YouTube, that have popped up?
there have been other sites e.g. friendster but these days newer ones tend not to take off with the hegemony that FB now has. also, it is super expensive when you have millions on your site.
Are there sites out there similar to these that we just don't hear about because they're not heavily promoted?
yes, i remember seeing an article a couple years ago, possibly in the LA or NY Times, that talked about competition for FB. the focus was on developing sites that wouldn't give advertisers access to people's info.
posted by wildflower at 1:36 AM on July 21, 2013
"my IP lawyer friend always says "you can't copyright an idea"
IAAIPL but IANYIPL. Although you often hear this kind of slogan in the wild, it's very incomplete and misleading. For one thing, the OP is not asking about copyrights at all. Go with Ookseer's answer.
posted by JimN2TAW at 5:49 AM on July 21, 2013
IAAIPL but IANYIPL. Although you often hear this kind of slogan in the wild, it's very incomplete and misleading. For one thing, the OP is not asking about copyrights at all. Go with Ookseer's answer.
posted by JimN2TAW at 5:49 AM on July 21, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for the answers!
So the way to go with a new site would be keeping it stealth until launch? Who's to say though if you launch a new type of site, that someone might see it and just come out with their own version of it? If that's the case, how can a new site ever make it, then? Just the luck of having a lot of people wanting to be on your site, instead of someone else's? I'm getting the feeling there's no way to protect from this, but also wonder how then new sites end up making it.
Thanks so much again for the input.
posted by readygo at 12:47 PM on July 21, 2013
So the way to go with a new site would be keeping it stealth until launch? Who's to say though if you launch a new type of site, that someone might see it and just come out with their own version of it? If that's the case, how can a new site ever make it, then? Just the luck of having a lot of people wanting to be on your site, instead of someone else's? I'm getting the feeling there's no way to protect from this, but also wonder how then new sites end up making it.
Thanks so much again for the input.
posted by readygo at 12:47 PM on July 21, 2013
Secrecy is not your friend. You're better off talking about your idea to anyone who will listen. If having a few months lead on copycats is your only advantage, you aren't going to succeed anyway. Ideas are cheap, even good ones, and chances are lots of people have already thought of exactly what you would like to do. Your challenge is not to protect the idea, but to be the one to finally make it happen. When others look at your project and believe in it, they should want to join you (invest, acquire, work for, facilitate). If they'd rather duplicate all your work than get on board, it's because they think you did it wrong or have a crappy team. If you expect others to copy your product quickly and easily once they hear about it, then you don't have a viable business.
You can find a lot of similar advice on the web by searching for things like "no one [cares about / will steal] your [big / stupid] idea", or discussions of NDAs and startup secrecy.
posted by aigeek at 2:21 PM on July 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
You can find a lot of similar advice on the web by searching for things like "no one [cares about / will steal] your [big / stupid] idea", or discussions of NDAs and startup secrecy.
posted by aigeek at 2:21 PM on July 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the great answers, I appreciate them.
I was just asking a question, due to not knowing very much about this subject.
"You can find a lot of similar advice on the web by searching for things like "no one [cares about / will steal] your [big / stupid] idea".
This seems really rude, and quite unhelpful, in addition to being very negative. Mefii is here for asking questions, I don't expect to be belittled for it. Quite uncalled for.
posted by readygo at 2:40 PM on July 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was just asking a question, due to not knowing very much about this subject.
"You can find a lot of similar advice on the web by searching for things like "no one [cares about / will steal] your [big / stupid] idea".
This seems really rude, and quite unhelpful, in addition to being very negative. Mefii is here for asking questions, I don't expect to be belittled for it. Quite uncalled for.
posted by readygo at 2:40 PM on July 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, it's also true. "Great ideas" are a lot easier than most people think and are worth a lot less than most people think. The true value is in the execution, Edison's "99% perspiration".
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:15 PM on July 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:15 PM on July 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Who's to say though if you launch a new type of site, that someone might see it and just come out with their own version of it?
They might try. This happens all the time with mobile apps, for example. Usually the best implementation wins, not the first one to market. If Facebook had a lousy interface, and had been slower to expand (i.e. spammed less) someone else may have stepped up and overtaken them.
The winner is usually the one with the right combination of good ideas and the best execution, at the right time -- not just a single idea.
Patents generally only help you after you've become successful. Before that they're a weapon others use against you.
I take it these sites make their money from ads, but I don't know anyone who ever buys something they've clicked on.
Hah! Yeah, some people do. Check out Google's revenue.
"no one [cares about / will steal] your [big / stupid] idea"
There are lots of articles about this, and it's a touchy subject because so many entrepreneurs expect people to give them money/advice without telling them their idea.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:55 PM on July 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
They might try. This happens all the time with mobile apps, for example. Usually the best implementation wins, not the first one to market. If Facebook had a lousy interface, and had been slower to expand (i.e. spammed less) someone else may have stepped up and overtaken them.
The winner is usually the one with the right combination of good ideas and the best execution, at the right time -- not just a single idea.
Patents generally only help you after you've become successful. Before that they're a weapon others use against you.
I take it these sites make their money from ads, but I don't know anyone who ever buys something they've clicked on.
Hah! Yeah, some people do. Check out Google's revenue.
"no one [cares about / will steal] your [big / stupid] idea"
There are lots of articles about this, and it's a touchy subject because so many entrepreneurs expect people to give them money/advice without telling them their idea.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:55 PM on July 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
(IANAL, just my opinion about software patents specifically, etc)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:05 PM on July 21, 2013
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:05 PM on July 21, 2013
"So the way to go with a new site would be keeping it stealth until launch?"
Well yes and no. Stealth is typical for most startups, it's just how it's done. And there are ideas that can be ripped off by a single person in a weekend. (I could make a basic Twitter rip-off in a weekend, though It wouldn't support millions of people.) However those who say that there's little point are also correct. In general a good idea is worthless, it's all in the execution and timing. You get to control the execution and the timing when you go from stealth to open.
"Who's to say though if you launch a new type of site, that someone might see it and just come out with their own version of it?"
Nothing and no one. This is done all the time, and there are no legal remedies. The only thing you can't do is try to masquerade as another site. If it's close enough that there would be confusion, that can be considered a trademark violation. (eg: If I made a site called "tweeter.com" that let people post 140 character messages and its logo was a little blue bird.) But generally the same? Nope, anyone is free to do it.
"If that's the case, how can a new site ever make it, then? Just the luck of having a lot of people wanting to be on your site, instead of someone else's?"
More or less. Plus marketing. Sites that just start out will go to amazing effort to get early users. (Seriously, read the article at that link.)
There could be (and probably have been) books written on this. Some sites excel because they first targeted a very limited audience. Facebook started out just for Harvard students. It's a lot easier to recruit Harvard students than ... everyone on Earth. Some reward those who use their site a lot, or provide some kind of value to you. (see: Yelp Elite) Others go out of their way to attract opinion leaders who are the kind of people they want on the site. (Medium.com started this way, as did Quora.)
And spending a few million dollars in marketing is not unreasonable.
Also, 3 out of 4 internet startups fail within a couple years. Some of what makes one work is the ability to simply keep the doors open long enough to be noticed. Few VC backed companies can get a second or third round of funding if they aren't showing success, so there's a limited life built into most
Having a famous founder/cofounder certainly helps get the word out.
Or having a stellar design might do it.
Or hitting at the right time when everyone is tired of the competitor.
"I'm getting the feeling there's no way to protect from this, but also wonder how then new sites end up making it."
You're right, there is no way to protect your business from this. New sites makes it with a combination of equal amounts, skill, luck, and money. There is no way to guarantee success. (There are unfortunately many ways to guarantee failure.)
posted by Ookseer at 6:06 PM on July 21, 2013
Well yes and no. Stealth is typical for most startups, it's just how it's done. And there are ideas that can be ripped off by a single person in a weekend. (I could make a basic Twitter rip-off in a weekend, though It wouldn't support millions of people.) However those who say that there's little point are also correct. In general a good idea is worthless, it's all in the execution and timing. You get to control the execution and the timing when you go from stealth to open.
"Who's to say though if you launch a new type of site, that someone might see it and just come out with their own version of it?"
Nothing and no one. This is done all the time, and there are no legal remedies. The only thing you can't do is try to masquerade as another site. If it's close enough that there would be confusion, that can be considered a trademark violation. (eg: If I made a site called "tweeter.com" that let people post 140 character messages and its logo was a little blue bird.) But generally the same? Nope, anyone is free to do it.
"If that's the case, how can a new site ever make it, then? Just the luck of having a lot of people wanting to be on your site, instead of someone else's?"
More or less. Plus marketing. Sites that just start out will go to amazing effort to get early users. (Seriously, read the article at that link.)
There could be (and probably have been) books written on this. Some sites excel because they first targeted a very limited audience. Facebook started out just for Harvard students. It's a lot easier to recruit Harvard students than ... everyone on Earth. Some reward those who use their site a lot, or provide some kind of value to you. (see: Yelp Elite) Others go out of their way to attract opinion leaders who are the kind of people they want on the site. (Medium.com started this way, as did Quora.)
And spending a few million dollars in marketing is not unreasonable.
Also, 3 out of 4 internet startups fail within a couple years. Some of what makes one work is the ability to simply keep the doors open long enough to be noticed. Few VC backed companies can get a second or third round of funding if they aren't showing success, so there's a limited life built into most
Having a famous founder/cofounder certainly helps get the word out.
Or having a stellar design might do it.
Or hitting at the right time when everyone is tired of the competitor.
"I'm getting the feeling there's no way to protect from this, but also wonder how then new sites end up making it."
You're right, there is no way to protect your business from this. New sites makes it with a combination of equal amounts, skill, luck, and money. There is no way to guarantee success. (There are unfortunately many ways to guarantee failure.)
posted by Ookseer at 6:06 PM on July 21, 2013
Sorry, I really wasn't intending to be rude, though I guess it came across that way. Those are just some real titles of articles on this topic. I really just meant to say that you shouldn't worry too much about protecting the idea, and instead focus your efforts on making a great product and business. I certainly didn't mean "don't bother us, go read somewhere else", only "there's some good writing on this and here's a lead to help you find it." I do agree that those article titles are a bit inflammatory; I guess that's one method the publishers use to get attention.
posted by aigeek at 9:13 PM on July 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by aigeek at 9:13 PM on July 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: @aigeek- thanks for the update, I wasn't anxious to google "no one cares about your big stupid idea", it sounded like it was sarcasm. Thanks for clarifying.
The "stealth until launch", I only paraphrased from Ookseer's comment upthread. I really had no idea if that would be right or not.
Thanks again for all the good comments, I know a bit more about the subject now, which is what I was hoping for. Thanks Mefi!
posted by readygo at 1:28 AM on July 22, 2013
The "stealth until launch", I only paraphrased from Ookseer's comment upthread. I really had no idea if that would be right or not.
Thanks again for all the good comments, I know a bit more about the subject now, which is what I was hoping for. Thanks Mefi!
posted by readygo at 1:28 AM on July 22, 2013
wildflower: "my IP lawyer friend always says "you can't copyright an idea"
IAAIPL but IANYIPL. Although you often hear this kind of slogan in the wild, it's very incomplete and misleading. For one thing, the OP is not asking about copyrights at all.
yeesh. i'm sure i must have butchered what my friend said. maybe he was talking about patents rather than copyrights. i tend to mix those up. he actually only said it once but it did sort of stick in my head even if i didn't remember it quite right.
posted by wildflower at 12:31 AM on July 23, 2013
IAAIPL but IANYIPL. Although you often hear this kind of slogan in the wild, it's very incomplete and misleading. For one thing, the OP is not asking about copyrights at all.
yeesh. i'm sure i must have butchered what my friend said. maybe he was talking about patents rather than copyrights. i tend to mix those up. he actually only said it once but it did sort of stick in my head even if i didn't remember it quite right.
posted by wildflower at 12:31 AM on July 23, 2013
« Older Best Beach Canopy To Shade The Family? | Old house - trying to fix up dirty moldy medicine... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
Making a Facebook clone is easy. Making it better than Facebook is not terribly difficult either. Convincing people to use it, when their friends and family are all already on Facebook is hard.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:35 PM on July 20, 2013 [5 favorites]