Recommendations of a career counselor?
April 2, 2013 11:43 AM Subscribe
Have you had great success working with a career counselor? Someone wise, savvy, thoughtful, and creative? I'm looking to work with such a person. Would love your suggestions!
I'm in my mid-30s, and after a series of mini-careers, I'm working on how to move forward in a meaningful way. I have about ten different directions I could go in, and I think it might be helpful to work with an awesome career counselor who could help work on the steps to figuring out just what might be a good fit, the steps to get there, etc. Bonus for someone used to working with artists and other creative people.
Have you had a great career counselor you'd recommend? Most folk seem to work over phone/Skype these days, so location isn't an issue.
I'm in my mid-30s, and after a series of mini-careers, I'm working on how to move forward in a meaningful way. I have about ten different directions I could go in, and I think it might be helpful to work with an awesome career counselor who could help work on the steps to figuring out just what might be a good fit, the steps to get there, etc. Bonus for someone used to working with artists and other creative people.
Have you had a great career counselor you'd recommend? Most folk seem to work over phone/Skype these days, so location isn't an issue.
I'd be curious if anyone responding to this question will be able to point to a specific, concrete benefit they derived from working with a professional career counselor.
Hi, this is me.
The counselor I worked with was at my university's career center. Here are the things she helped me to do:
-Translate my previous experience into a professional skill set
-Figure out what types of work I was good at and enjoyed, and what fields and specific job titles would be a good fit
-Rewrite my resume to fit the types of jobs I was seeking and be more accomplishment-oriented
-Look for jobs (she even printed out postings she thought I might be interested in)
-Be more confident in myself and my skills and my ability to find a good job
And yes, I got a job, and yes, it's exactly what I was looking for (yay).
I've had some hilariously useless experiences with career counseling in the past and as far as I can tell the factor that makes all the difference is how much experience the counselor has.
Unfortunately I can't recommend her to you because she's a university employee and students are who she works with, but I would not be surprised if your college career center has career resources for alumni.
posted by capricorn at 12:27 PM on April 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hi, this is me.
The counselor I worked with was at my university's career center. Here are the things she helped me to do:
-Translate my previous experience into a professional skill set
-Figure out what types of work I was good at and enjoyed, and what fields and specific job titles would be a good fit
-Rewrite my resume to fit the types of jobs I was seeking and be more accomplishment-oriented
-Look for jobs (she even printed out postings she thought I might be interested in)
-Be more confident in myself and my skills and my ability to find a good job
And yes, I got a job, and yes, it's exactly what I was looking for (yay).
I've had some hilariously useless experiences with career counseling in the past and as far as I can tell the factor that makes all the difference is how much experience the counselor has.
Unfortunately I can't recommend her to you because she's a university employee and students are who she works with, but I would not be surprised if your college career center has career resources for alumni.
posted by capricorn at 12:27 PM on April 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
A career counsellor helped me strip down my resume so that it only had stuff that would get me an interview. Before, I had that plus stuff that really showed my experience. But she made it clear that the entire point was to get an interview. Because of her, I was able to let go of that. (Of course, now I've changed industries and use a CV, which makes me happy. lol)
Anyway, what I found most career counsellors were useless with was my firmly held belief that I wanted to be financially secure. They would ask me about my interests and values and I would say that financial security was very important to me, along with other things. Every single one of them dismissed this. It was impossible to get them to understand that I would rather make (for example) $100k in a job/career I liked than $60k in a job I loved. I kept explaining that I really like and enjoy doing a variety of things and that I do not feel my 9 to 5 hours must absolutely be my total passion. If I am happy and enjoy my work and can make more money than in a job I love, I do not see the harm. I pointed out all the other things I love (my family, vacations, travel, small mortgage, retirement savings, ability to quit job and go do something else) and that finding a job I really like that pays enough for all that was important to me. But they wanted me to do what I love.
I also found that they were useless in being able to envision me outside my (then) current field. I pointed out that I had just graduated from an MBA, that I have experience in a variety of fields and that I was more than willing to branch out if the opportunity, job security and money were there. But they wanted me to do my passion (field I had been in). I was acing all my courses and had experience in other fields that I felt I could explore more. But they were are useless in helping me transition or explore fields into which I could go.
So I ended up doing a lot of the work on my own. And the career I really like lets me make good money for fewer hours, does not require travel or long hours, has flexible hours, and pays well for the time involved. And now I'm really good at it and get a rush from some parts of it and just love that. And my mortgage is paid down quite a bit, I have no other debt and I have a lot of time to spend with my family. And if I hadn't been able to switch into another field, my family life really would have suffered and that would have devastated me. So there, career counsellors! (I am sure there are those who can see outside the 9 to 5, but I didn't run into them. I found a lot of career counsellors seemed to be self actualizing through their work and had limited exposure to career opportunities.)
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 1:37 PM on April 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
Anyway, what I found most career counsellors were useless with was my firmly held belief that I wanted to be financially secure. They would ask me about my interests and values and I would say that financial security was very important to me, along with other things. Every single one of them dismissed this. It was impossible to get them to understand that I would rather make (for example) $100k in a job/career I liked than $60k in a job I loved. I kept explaining that I really like and enjoy doing a variety of things and that I do not feel my 9 to 5 hours must absolutely be my total passion. If I am happy and enjoy my work and can make more money than in a job I love, I do not see the harm. I pointed out all the other things I love (my family, vacations, travel, small mortgage, retirement savings, ability to quit job and go do something else) and that finding a job I really like that pays enough for all that was important to me. But they wanted me to do what I love.
I also found that they were useless in being able to envision me outside my (then) current field. I pointed out that I had just graduated from an MBA, that I have experience in a variety of fields and that I was more than willing to branch out if the opportunity, job security and money were there. But they wanted me to do my passion (field I had been in). I was acing all my courses and had experience in other fields that I felt I could explore more. But they were are useless in helping me transition or explore fields into which I could go.
So I ended up doing a lot of the work on my own. And the career I really like lets me make good money for fewer hours, does not require travel or long hours, has flexible hours, and pays well for the time involved. And now I'm really good at it and get a rush from some parts of it and just love that. And my mortgage is paid down quite a bit, I have no other debt and I have a lot of time to spend with my family. And if I hadn't been able to switch into another field, my family life really would have suffered and that would have devastated me. So there, career counsellors! (I am sure there are those who can see outside the 9 to 5, but I didn't run into them. I found a lot of career counsellors seemed to be self actualizing through their work and had limited exposure to career opportunities.)
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 1:37 PM on April 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
No. I will recommend a book, though, and mention some of the things it covers, which I think are worth considering, by yourself or with support.
- Awareness of natural inclinations and skills. If life has treated you at all fairly, you probably have at least a rough idea of what you’re good at. You may have some untapped latent ability that *might* be uncovered by aptitude testing. You might be able to guess at some of these by reflecting on things you have a ‘knack’ for. (I was shocked to discover I was in the 90th percentile for physics. It’s still not a high enough score for me to commit to nurturing a heretofore non-existent interest in related professional areas, but it explains why I can look at a piece of furniture and tell you if it’ll fit a space without using a measuring tape.)
I think, though, that knowing this should mostly serve to exclude highly unsuitable occupations. If you’re at least adequate at a given kind of task (and maybe very good or excellent at others used in occupation x), other factors, like motivation, are more important imo. Obviously, using more of your natural abilities in a job is probably better, but many things can be learned.
Aptitude testing is done by psychoeducational specialists (psychologists), not your average career counselor, and isn’t cheap (~$500 for really basic assessment, closer to $2000 for a more complete investigation, $5000 and up for bells and whistles). But that book can help you sort of make better guesses around all that.
- Knowing whether you’re more motivated by security or achievement, and being honest about 1) your appetite and tolerance for risk, and 2) the resources you have to mitigate risk (including financial resources and cultural capital).
In this economy, everyone has to take on an entrepreneurial attitude, to some degree, but not everyone’s cut out to earn 100% of their income as a freelancer or run a small business. If you’re not a hustler or prepared to become one, think about the safer bets (which might not jibe perfectly with your motivation, aptitude, interest, etc).
- Knowing the tradeoffs you’re willing to make. This means doing a bit of research to make informed judgements about what those tradeoffs are now, and what they're likely to be in five or ten years. Try to figure out which way the wind is blowing. Statistical projections help a bit (note: be wary of optimistic stats that count on retirement for openings). Stay on top of the news. Consider how changes in region- or profession-specific policies might impact your prospects. Get information from people working in fields that interest you, or who’ve recently completed educational/training programs you’re thinking about.
My conclusions on safe industries: energy, especially oil & gas; health, especially gerontology-related occupations, and especially core and/or low-to-mid-level (i.e., cheap) professions (e.g., OTA vs OT); anything related to booze or hair, because no matter how broke people are, they still want to feel good. I think there’s still room for luxury/niche goods/services, in case you’re obsessed with the idea of making posh belts or teaching some obscure form of yoga, but that sort of thing requires proper fanaticism and $ and a good amount of hustle/networking, still. Anyway.
- Be as honest with yourself as you can about opportunity costs. Some careers will require a huge investment of $/time, and a leap of faith. I would only consider those if I realistically appraised my odds of success as at least ‘very good’, and risk was minimal, or I felt other options were intolerable [<>
- Recognize that you could probably be reasonably satisfied doing a number of things, and there’s no ideal or natural path, just a compromise you settle on after making decisions and exclusions, informed by reflection and research.
----------------------------------------------
tl;dr - I would think about where you’re blocked or confused. If you’ve got a lack of clarity around e.g. risk tolerance or thinking through tradeoffs*, or have a hard time committing to decisions, a regular counsellor/therapist (with experience in supporting vocational decision-making) might be more helpful than the average career counsellor. If you lack information, putting more time into research, informational interviews, and trying things out might help more. If you have NO IDEA what you could be good at, maybe think about getting the aptitude assessment.
Otherwise, I think you can as much or more done on your own than with your typical vocational counsellor. Treat it systematically - set aside an hour every week to assess how far along you are in deciding/excluding/researching, and plan what you're doing the next. Maybe a bff or partner could help you stay accountable, if you feel like you need cheerleading. (E.g., your bud Larry agrees to send you a naggy text if you haven't confirmed you've done x by 3.00 on Saturday.)
*I think this is where things can get hairy for a lot of people, because it can involve sometimes painful reflection around unrealized potential, or anger around lack of access to opportunities, or problematic emotions around money/security, even trauma from having dealt with abusive or dysfunctional organizations.
Yikes, long, sorry.
posted by nelljie at 2:12 PM on April 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
- Awareness of natural inclinations and skills. If life has treated you at all fairly, you probably have at least a rough idea of what you’re good at. You may have some untapped latent ability that *might* be uncovered by aptitude testing. You might be able to guess at some of these by reflecting on things you have a ‘knack’ for. (I was shocked to discover I was in the 90th percentile for physics. It’s still not a high enough score for me to commit to nurturing a heretofore non-existent interest in related professional areas, but it explains why I can look at a piece of furniture and tell you if it’ll fit a space without using a measuring tape.)
I think, though, that knowing this should mostly serve to exclude highly unsuitable occupations. If you’re at least adequate at a given kind of task (and maybe very good or excellent at others used in occupation x), other factors, like motivation, are more important imo. Obviously, using more of your natural abilities in a job is probably better, but many things can be learned.
Aptitude testing is done by psychoeducational specialists (psychologists), not your average career counselor, and isn’t cheap (~$500 for really basic assessment, closer to $2000 for a more complete investigation, $5000 and up for bells and whistles). But that book can help you sort of make better guesses around all that.
- Knowing whether you’re more motivated by security or achievement, and being honest about 1) your appetite and tolerance for risk, and 2) the resources you have to mitigate risk (including financial resources and cultural capital).
In this economy, everyone has to take on an entrepreneurial attitude, to some degree, but not everyone’s cut out to earn 100% of their income as a freelancer or run a small business. If you’re not a hustler or prepared to become one, think about the safer bets (which might not jibe perfectly with your motivation, aptitude, interest, etc).
- Knowing the tradeoffs you’re willing to make. This means doing a bit of research to make informed judgements about what those tradeoffs are now, and what they're likely to be in five or ten years. Try to figure out which way the wind is blowing. Statistical projections help a bit (note: be wary of optimistic stats that count on retirement for openings). Stay on top of the news. Consider how changes in region- or profession-specific policies might impact your prospects. Get information from people working in fields that interest you, or who’ve recently completed educational/training programs you’re thinking about.
My conclusions on safe industries: energy, especially oil & gas; health, especially gerontology-related occupations, and especially core and/or low-to-mid-level (i.e., cheap) professions (e.g., OTA vs OT); anything related to booze or hair, because no matter how broke people are, they still want to feel good. I think there’s still room for luxury/niche goods/services, in case you’re obsessed with the idea of making posh belts or teaching some obscure form of yoga, but that sort of thing requires proper fanaticism and $ and a good amount of hustle/networking, still. Anyway.
- Be as honest with yourself as you can about opportunity costs. Some careers will require a huge investment of $/time, and a leap of faith. I would only consider those if I realistically appraised my odds of success as at least ‘very good’, and risk was minimal, or I felt other options were intolerable [<>
- Recognize that you could probably be reasonably satisfied doing a number of things, and there’s no ideal or natural path, just a compromise you settle on after making decisions and exclusions, informed by reflection and research.
----------------------------------------------
tl;dr - I would think about where you’re blocked or confused. If you’ve got a lack of clarity around e.g. risk tolerance or thinking through tradeoffs*, or have a hard time committing to decisions, a regular counsellor/therapist (with experience in supporting vocational decision-making) might be more helpful than the average career counsellor. If you lack information, putting more time into research, informational interviews, and trying things out might help more. If you have NO IDEA what you could be good at, maybe think about getting the aptitude assessment.
Otherwise, I think you can as much or more done on your own than with your typical vocational counsellor. Treat it systematically - set aside an hour every week to assess how far along you are in deciding/excluding/researching, and plan what you're doing the next. Maybe a bff or partner could help you stay accountable, if you feel like you need cheerleading. (E.g., your bud Larry agrees to send you a naggy text if you haven't confirmed you've done x by 3.00 on Saturday.)
*I think this is where things can get hairy for a lot of people, because it can involve sometimes painful reflection around unrealized potential, or anger around lack of access to opportunities, or problematic emotions around money/security, even trauma from having dealt with abusive or dysfunctional organizations.
Yikes, long, sorry.
posted by nelljie at 2:12 PM on April 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
I apologize for not answering your question directly, because I know you are asking for recommendations. But I want to suggest that if you do find someone, don't use the criteria "Bonus for someone used to working with artists and other creative people". If you're a creative artist person, that needs to be a 'must have' for you.
I am a career counselor at a university, but these days I'm pretty specialized. I think I wrote this before somewhere on askmefi, but I think it's worth saying again. Just like if you are seeing a therapist, you want someone who specializes in your issue (ptsd with war veterans, sex therapy, etc.), if you're going to go the career counselor/career coach route, you will probably be better served by someone who knows the fields/has a track record of helping people pursue those career paths. Here's why.
Imagine that career counseling has four stages:
Self Exploration: What are my values, what is meaningful to me? What am I good at?
Career Exploration: What are career paths where I experience those things I value/am good at?
Job Search Strategies: How to I present myself as a strong candidate for those positions?
Professional Skills: I got that job, now how do I establish myself in the first 90 days?
Most career counselors can do the first one: personality assessments galore! But the second step (Career exploration) becomes harder, and the third (Job search strategies) almost impossible. If you are say, a strong statistical researcher, I can probably help you explore the answer to the question, "Where are the statistical researchers in academe? In the corporate world? In pharma industries? In the arts? In medicine? In government?" But that's because I know about career paths for a narrow bandwidth of career paths. I can send you to job descriptions, employment sites, LinkedIn bios, professional associations, websites, conferences, etc. where your statistical researchers hang out, and you can explore. And when you do narrow down your choices, because I know these career paths, I can give you tailored, specific information about how you tailor your document for a health outcomes research firm, and how that's different from applying to an not for profit focused on grants. I can give specific advice about presenting yourself in an interview, because it was what was shared with me by those researchers. I can talk to you about negotiating your compensation package.
In short, I don't just know the skill set of how to 'help someone achieve their goals', I have tangible career path specific information based on students and alumni I've worked with. And it's that knowledge that is the real gold of a career counselor. I honestly only have that level of detail in a narrow bandwidth of career paths, because it's who I specialize in at my university.
I wouldn't pay me a penny to work with a person who was trained in say, the humanities, or economics, or the law. Because while I can do the first part: Self Exploration Galore!, I really can only offer a framework (no content knowledge) about career paths for lawyers in government, in the private sector, etc. So I know little about Career Exploration for these populations. And I would be able to offer any valuable information about presenting yourself for the job beyond some general pablum that you would find anywhere online. So no Job Search Strategies stuff.
You sound like you want experienced guidance in at least three of the four areas: Self Exploration, Career Exploration and Job Search Strategies. So please, please, I know some in my field may disagree, but when you do find a recommendation or possible counselor, make sure they have a track record of working with people who have similar backgrounds to you and are exploring similar possible paths. I don't think it's worth the money otherwise.
posted by anitanita at 3:12 PM on April 2, 2013 [7 favorites]
I am a career counselor at a university, but these days I'm pretty specialized. I think I wrote this before somewhere on askmefi, but I think it's worth saying again. Just like if you are seeing a therapist, you want someone who specializes in your issue (ptsd with war veterans, sex therapy, etc.), if you're going to go the career counselor/career coach route, you will probably be better served by someone who knows the fields/has a track record of helping people pursue those career paths. Here's why.
Imagine that career counseling has four stages:
Self Exploration: What are my values, what is meaningful to me? What am I good at?
Career Exploration: What are career paths where I experience those things I value/am good at?
Job Search Strategies: How to I present myself as a strong candidate for those positions?
Professional Skills: I got that job, now how do I establish myself in the first 90 days?
Most career counselors can do the first one: personality assessments galore! But the second step (Career exploration) becomes harder, and the third (Job search strategies) almost impossible. If you are say, a strong statistical researcher, I can probably help you explore the answer to the question, "Where are the statistical researchers in academe? In the corporate world? In pharma industries? In the arts? In medicine? In government?" But that's because I know about career paths for a narrow bandwidth of career paths. I can send you to job descriptions, employment sites, LinkedIn bios, professional associations, websites, conferences, etc. where your statistical researchers hang out, and you can explore. And when you do narrow down your choices, because I know these career paths, I can give you tailored, specific information about how you tailor your document for a health outcomes research firm, and how that's different from applying to an not for profit focused on grants. I can give specific advice about presenting yourself in an interview, because it was what was shared with me by those researchers. I can talk to you about negotiating your compensation package.
In short, I don't just know the skill set of how to 'help someone achieve their goals', I have tangible career path specific information based on students and alumni I've worked with. And it's that knowledge that is the real gold of a career counselor. I honestly only have that level of detail in a narrow bandwidth of career paths, because it's who I specialize in at my university.
I wouldn't pay me a penny to work with a person who was trained in say, the humanities, or economics, or the law. Because while I can do the first part: Self Exploration Galore!, I really can only offer a framework (no content knowledge) about career paths for lawyers in government, in the private sector, etc. So I know little about Career Exploration for these populations. And I would be able to offer any valuable information about presenting yourself for the job beyond some general pablum that you would find anywhere online. So no Job Search Strategies stuff.
You sound like you want experienced guidance in at least three of the four areas: Self Exploration, Career Exploration and Job Search Strategies. So please, please, I know some in my field may disagree, but when you do find a recommendation or possible counselor, make sure they have a track record of working with people who have similar backgrounds to you and are exploring similar possible paths. I don't think it's worth the money otherwise.
posted by anitanita at 3:12 PM on April 2, 2013 [7 favorites]
anitanita, wow, it's a revelation to hear you say that. It answers a lot of questions I've had about what it's like on "the other side of the desk" so to speak for a career counselor. My question is how do you find that specialized counselor? What are the options outside of university resources? I'm actually a perfect example of your example- someone with a music degree looking for a career that will use that, without being a full time performer.
Apologies if this is too much of a sidetrack from the original question.
posted by Polyhymnia at 3:35 PM on April 2, 2013
Apologies if this is too much of a sidetrack from the original question.
posted by Polyhymnia at 3:35 PM on April 2, 2013
Response by poster: Hi all-- Thanks for these comments. I think I wasn't very clear: I'm actually looking for names of specific people to potentially work with.
And yes, anitanita, I totally agree with you. Now, *who* is that specialized person? How do I even go about finding said person??
posted by airguitar2 at 3:58 PM on April 2, 2013
And yes, anitanita, I totally agree with you. Now, *who* is that specialized person? How do I even go about finding said person??
posted by airguitar2 at 3:58 PM on April 2, 2013
Apologies airguitar2, let me focus on how you might finding such a person.
This WSJ article "How to find a career coach" is a good start to just lay out the concept. also psychology today has a good article explaining how to vet coaches/counselors.
There are a couple of suggestions I have:
You can try the International Coach Federation, ICF has a coach referral service online, and I think that you can click criteria about fields, such as the arts, etc.. I'm not a member, but I know about them.
The Professional Association of Resume Writers and Career Coaches, PARWCC, also has a search feature. I'm also not a member.
The National Career Development Association also has a counselor search. A number of university career counselors are a member of this organization. They also have some helpful information to explain the range of providers here.
An organization like the Bay Area Career Center might help as well. What is helpful here is that you can see how the counselors talk about their focus, clientele, etc. in their profiles. No matter who you find, check out their web presence, linkedin account and references of people who used their services.
If you're an artist, the Springboard for the Arts has Artistic Career Counselors.
And while I can't recommend her because I don't know her, I typed in 'career coach counselor artist san francisco' into google and the following person popped up. Perhaps if you are location specific, you might try a good search in your area.
Finally, I typed in 'career counseling linkedin Los Angeles" and the following names popped up. Perhaps you could search by your area, or career path.
In all cases, read the bios, specialty areas, websites and ask for references, and see if someone catches your eye.
Hopefully this helps you too, Polyhymnia. :)
Good luck....
posted by anitanita at 8:07 PM on April 2, 2013 [7 favorites]
This WSJ article "How to find a career coach" is a good start to just lay out the concept. also psychology today has a good article explaining how to vet coaches/counselors.
There are a couple of suggestions I have:
You can try the International Coach Federation, ICF has a coach referral service online, and I think that you can click criteria about fields, such as the arts, etc.. I'm not a member, but I know about them.
The Professional Association of Resume Writers and Career Coaches, PARWCC, also has a search feature. I'm also not a member.
The National Career Development Association also has a counselor search. A number of university career counselors are a member of this organization. They also have some helpful information to explain the range of providers here.
An organization like the Bay Area Career Center might help as well. What is helpful here is that you can see how the counselors talk about their focus, clientele, etc. in their profiles. No matter who you find, check out their web presence, linkedin account and references of people who used their services.
If you're an artist, the Springboard for the Arts has Artistic Career Counselors.
And while I can't recommend her because I don't know her, I typed in 'career coach counselor artist san francisco' into google and the following person popped up. Perhaps if you are location specific, you might try a good search in your area.
Finally, I typed in 'career counseling linkedin Los Angeles" and the following names popped up. Perhaps you could search by your area, or career path.
In all cases, read the bios, specialty areas, websites and ask for references, and see if someone catches your eye.
Hopefully this helps you too, Polyhymnia. :)
Good luck....
posted by anitanita at 8:07 PM on April 2, 2013 [7 favorites]
You might consider Victoria Zenoff - I haven't had any contact with her personally, but two of my colleagues spoke very highly of her.
posted by kristi at 11:18 AM on April 4, 2013
posted by kristi at 11:18 AM on April 4, 2013
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I'd be curious if anyone responding to this question will be able to point to a specific, concrete benefit they derived from working with a professional career counselor.
posted by Nomyte at 11:58 AM on April 2, 2013 [4 favorites]