Your Stress is Stressing Me Out
March 11, 2013 6:43 PM Subscribe
How do I effectively communicate to my husband that I'm afraid that his job stress is spilling over into our family life and negatively affecting his relationship with our kids?
My husband took a very demanding and challenging job last May. It required us to move to a new state and away from family. His position is much different than his prior job, with interaction with competing demands from the community, HQ and his bosses. There is never a dull moment (things literally exploding is a possibility).
He took the position because he felt stultified in his prior position and was in danger of being stuck in a dead end career path if he didn't leave. I fully supported his move.
The problem is that he has a lot of stress that comes with his job and I think it is beginning to negatively impact his relationships with our 3 year old and to a lesser extent the little one we had in November. He's very short with the 3 year old (who can be trying - I understand) and can't handle more than a few minutes of our new baby crying before crying uncle himself. This has resulted in the care of our baby falling almost solely on my hands and the care of our son in his.
How can I express my concerns to him without sounding like I'm nagging? I don't want to add to his stress but I also want to address the problem that his stress is creating. Throw away email: heisunderpressure@hotmail.com.
My husband took a very demanding and challenging job last May. It required us to move to a new state and away from family. His position is much different than his prior job, with interaction with competing demands from the community, HQ and his bosses. There is never a dull moment (things literally exploding is a possibility).
He took the position because he felt stultified in his prior position and was in danger of being stuck in a dead end career path if he didn't leave. I fully supported his move.
The problem is that he has a lot of stress that comes with his job and I think it is beginning to negatively impact his relationships with our 3 year old and to a lesser extent the little one we had in November. He's very short with the 3 year old (who can be trying - I understand) and can't handle more than a few minutes of our new baby crying before crying uncle himself. This has resulted in the care of our baby falling almost solely on my hands and the care of our son in his.
How can I express my concerns to him without sounding like I'm nagging? I don't want to add to his stress but I also want to address the problem that his stress is creating. Throw away email: heisunderpressure@hotmail.com.
You can convey that not only will it mess up the relationships, it will mess up the kids themselves. I think that my own father being in a similar high-stress situation when I was young induced some PTSD-like anxiety problems and seriously impaired my emotional state because he would explode in anger all the time for no apparent reason and would expose me to a disregulated temper he probably couldn't let out at work. I'm sure it didn't help my mother any with teaching me to not throw temper tantrums and to be polite, when from my little-kid point of view my father got to throw tantrums and be rudely angry all the time.
I think it greatly contributed to a life-long problem of being terrified in just about any social interaction, probably compounded by my grandparents and aunts and uncles living far away and so the only continuous contact I had with anyone for a long time was him and my mother. I would say that if this state of affairs continues, definitely make sure your kids are regularly visiting with and get to know their own extended family and/or maybe family friends of yours, at least some male adults who do not exhibit stressed-out behavior all the time.
Maybe you can even pitch a financial angle, that you'll save lots of money and heartache on therapy in teenage years and beyond.
posted by Sockpuppet Liberation Front at 7:18 PM on March 11, 2013 [9 favorites]
I think it greatly contributed to a life-long problem of being terrified in just about any social interaction, probably compounded by my grandparents and aunts and uncles living far away and so the only continuous contact I had with anyone for a long time was him and my mother. I would say that if this state of affairs continues, definitely make sure your kids are regularly visiting with and get to know their own extended family and/or maybe family friends of yours, at least some male adults who do not exhibit stressed-out behavior all the time.
Maybe you can even pitch a financial angle, that you'll save lots of money and heartache on therapy in teenage years and beyond.
posted by Sockpuppet Liberation Front at 7:18 PM on March 11, 2013 [9 favorites]
If his work is affecting his ability to be a good and kind father to his kids, that means something's gotta give, and that something may be his job. Now that he's made this big move, is there any way he can apply for a different position, perhaps one with less stress and fewer competing demands?
You're not nagging, btw, by bringing up a legitimate concern like the fact that he may be (or definitely is) emotionally traumatizing your children. If he suddenly puts your concerns back on you, that's a reflection on him, and it means you may need to get bossy in order to get what you need.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:27 PM on March 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
You're not nagging, btw, by bringing up a legitimate concern like the fact that he may be (or definitely is) emotionally traumatizing your children. If he suddenly puts your concerns back on you, that's a reflection on him, and it means you may need to get bossy in order to get what you need.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:27 PM on March 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
I've been watching this corny Australian documentary about four couples trying to improve their relationship, and for one of the couples the main problem sounds like yours: he has a stressful job and can't leave thoughts of work behind at the end of the day, and it makes him short with the kids and the wife is left doing all the childcare.
The TV programme's therapists set up a few things for him to try:
(1) a boxing bag in the garage. When he gets home from work he immediately has to go into the garage and work out with the boxing bag for 10 solid minutes. Then he showers, changes into fresh clothes that he ONLY wears at home, and appears to the family. Supposedly the intense focus and physical hard work gives stress relief, and the 10-min workout plus shower plus clean clothes provides a clear break between work and home.
(2) If he wants to talk to his wife about work, they have to stand in the laundry to do it. They chose the laundry because it's a bit uncomfortable and keeps these conversations to a short period. They didn't want to ban him from venting about work, but just keep it under control.
(3) They also drew up an actual list of chores that need to get done around the house and negotiated who does what, and put the list somewhere prominent. Somehow that made him more aware of whether he was pulling his weight. There was also some bullshit about negotiating sex for housework, but don't go there.
Another couple on the show decided their main problem was that the guy with the stressful job thinks that gives him a free pass on childcare because he works so hard all day, and he doesn't really appreciate that his wife is also working bloody hard and that childcare itself is a stressful job. So they sent the wife away for the day and made him look after the kids all on his own. It kind of blew my mind that he had never done that before, but he hadn't and afterwards he was more appreciative of what his wife does, and he helped out more. If your husband never takes the kids full time, maybe he should try it some weekend day. But I think the suggestions in 1-3 above are more likely to be helpful.
posted by lollusc at 7:38 PM on March 11, 2013 [8 favorites]
The TV programme's therapists set up a few things for him to try:
(1) a boxing bag in the garage. When he gets home from work he immediately has to go into the garage and work out with the boxing bag for 10 solid minutes. Then he showers, changes into fresh clothes that he ONLY wears at home, and appears to the family. Supposedly the intense focus and physical hard work gives stress relief, and the 10-min workout plus shower plus clean clothes provides a clear break between work and home.
(2) If he wants to talk to his wife about work, they have to stand in the laundry to do it. They chose the laundry because it's a bit uncomfortable and keeps these conversations to a short period. They didn't want to ban him from venting about work, but just keep it under control.
(3) They also drew up an actual list of chores that need to get done around the house and negotiated who does what, and put the list somewhere prominent. Somehow that made him more aware of whether he was pulling his weight. There was also some bullshit about negotiating sex for housework, but don't go there.
Another couple on the show decided their main problem was that the guy with the stressful job thinks that gives him a free pass on childcare because he works so hard all day, and he doesn't really appreciate that his wife is also working bloody hard and that childcare itself is a stressful job. So they sent the wife away for the day and made him look after the kids all on his own. It kind of blew my mind that he had never done that before, but he hadn't and afterwards he was more appreciative of what his wife does, and he helped out more. If your husband never takes the kids full time, maybe he should try it some weekend day. But I think the suggestions in 1-3 above are more likely to be helpful.
posted by lollusc at 7:38 PM on March 11, 2013 [8 favorites]
Definitely, you do not want to nag in anyway.
This is exactly one of those moments where the right way to communicate makes all the difference. Men and women talk differently - i would advise this :
He is under a lot of stress. For a man, his job can be #1 on the list of top stress producers. Tell him you recognize it, and you want to help. Let him offer a suggestion.
Separately, tell him that you notice a change of behavior. Does he notice it as well? If he doesn't, he will likely ask you what you've noticed. Don't bring up the incident with your 3 year old. When he asks for an example, then provide it.
Finally, don't ask him what he's going to do about it - he knows now. Leave the matter for a week or so. If you ask during the week, that will be nagging and very counter productive. Give him the space to show rectification.
posted by Kruger5 at 7:48 PM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is exactly one of those moments where the right way to communicate makes all the difference. Men and women talk differently - i would advise this :
He is under a lot of stress. For a man, his job can be #1 on the list of top stress producers. Tell him you recognize it, and you want to help. Let him offer a suggestion.
Separately, tell him that you notice a change of behavior. Does he notice it as well? If he doesn't, he will likely ask you what you've noticed. Don't bring up the incident with your 3 year old. When he asks for an example, then provide it.
Finally, don't ask him what he's going to do about it - he knows now. Leave the matter for a week or so. If you ask during the week, that will be nagging and very counter productive. Give him the space to show rectification.
posted by Kruger5 at 7:48 PM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
^ Yeah, frame it in such a way that you want to help him de-stress at home. That way it won't come across as you nagging him.
I've been on the other end of this equation, working a job that was highly stressful, and it definitely took a toll on my relationships and my home life. When it got really bad, one thing that helped was having a short period of designated quiet time when I came home: just sitting off by myself somewhere, not talking to anyone, reading or poking around on the computer. Even as little as 20 or 30 minutes of this could make a huge difference. This could be trickier for you as you have two young kids, but you can probably figure out some sort of system to manage it (and with the understanding that once he's had his quiet time, he is now expected to contribute to the running of the house by doing whatever tasks and looking after the kids).
Then again, if he continues to be stressed out after a reasonable amount of time getting to grips with the job, and if there's no chance of a lateral move within the organization, then you're dealing with the symptoms and not the cause. Ultimately, the solution to my "job stress problem" was for me to quit and find another job, but YMMV.
posted by Broseph at 9:29 PM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've been on the other end of this equation, working a job that was highly stressful, and it definitely took a toll on my relationships and my home life. When it got really bad, one thing that helped was having a short period of designated quiet time when I came home: just sitting off by myself somewhere, not talking to anyone, reading or poking around on the computer. Even as little as 20 or 30 minutes of this could make a huge difference. This could be trickier for you as you have two young kids, but you can probably figure out some sort of system to manage it (and with the understanding that once he's had his quiet time, he is now expected to contribute to the running of the house by doing whatever tasks and looking after the kids).
Then again, if he continues to be stressed out after a reasonable amount of time getting to grips with the job, and if there's no chance of a lateral move within the organization, then you're dealing with the symptoms and not the cause. Ultimately, the solution to my "job stress problem" was for me to quit and find another job, but YMMV.
posted by Broseph at 9:29 PM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
when someone takes over a new position with lots of new responsibilities that aren't part of their core competencies there will be a struggle with incompetence. How one approaches that incompetence is very important. If he looks at it as evidence that they hired the wrong person then stress will be the result, but if looks at it as a challenge and an opportunity to grow (didn't he take this job because it presented new challenges? remind him of that!) then he should understand that no matter how hard he works there will be a learning curve and inevitable failure that accompanies it. The experience he is going to need to perform his new job competently is going to take months - maybe years to master, he needs to come to terms with that. Have him set realistic goals for getting up to speed and accept that there is going to be some failure, but that failure will build experience and as long as he's honest about it, learns from it and most importantly, owns it - he will gain the respect of his co-workers and the public. I'm a firm believer that stress is mostly a by-product of unrealistic expectations. How long did it take him to become a hot-shot in his prior position? Sometimes we delude ourselves into believing our unique special qualities are the reason for our success and forget all the hard work and failure that foreshadowed it.
posted by any major dude at 10:18 PM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by any major dude at 10:18 PM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
He is under a lot of stress. For a man, his job can be #1 on the list of top stress producers.
Not just men. Women often feel stressed about work above all else. But I think that men, generally, are allowed to express their stress more. Women are supposed to suppress their anger and other aggressive emotions, but men can let it out. It's culturally sanctioned, and it can be really destructive. When my dad had a really stressful job, I remember that he often acted like a real dick to the rest of us. The only thing that helped was a lot of exercise and quiet time. But when my mom called him out on his behavior, she was "being a nag." It sucked.
Like Sock Puppet Liberation front says, that stress and explosive behavior can be really traumatizing.
I don't think it's nagging to point this out. It's your husband's responsibility as a husband, father, and man to learn how to manage his stress. It is not nagging to tell him that his stress and the resulting behavior has a negative affect on your family. You are not wrong.
Have you talked about any of this? Talk to him - calmly, when you're not upset or feeling overwhelmed by crying baby and mad husband - and explain the ways in which you've seen his stress negatively affect you and the kids. Don't accuse him of anything, just lay it out and see what he says. I wouldn't offer solutions unless he asks for them. Not yet. But it's been almost a year. This is no way to live.
He's under a lot of stress, but so are you.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:54 PM on March 11, 2013 [18 favorites]
Not just men. Women often feel stressed about work above all else. But I think that men, generally, are allowed to express their stress more. Women are supposed to suppress their anger and other aggressive emotions, but men can let it out. It's culturally sanctioned, and it can be really destructive. When my dad had a really stressful job, I remember that he often acted like a real dick to the rest of us. The only thing that helped was a lot of exercise and quiet time. But when my mom called him out on his behavior, she was "being a nag." It sucked.
Like Sock Puppet Liberation front says, that stress and explosive behavior can be really traumatizing.
I don't think it's nagging to point this out. It's your husband's responsibility as a husband, father, and man to learn how to manage his stress. It is not nagging to tell him that his stress and the resulting behavior has a negative affect on your family. You are not wrong.
Have you talked about any of this? Talk to him - calmly, when you're not upset or feeling overwhelmed by crying baby and mad husband - and explain the ways in which you've seen his stress negatively affect you and the kids. Don't accuse him of anything, just lay it out and see what he says. I wouldn't offer solutions unless he asks for them. Not yet. But it's been almost a year. This is no way to live.
He's under a lot of stress, but so are you.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:54 PM on March 11, 2013 [18 favorites]
Some of these responses seem way over the top in comparison to the behaviors the OP is describing.
You can convey that not only will it mess up the relationships, it will mess up the kids themselves
This statement is an end response, the kind of thing you'd use after other methods had failed and the guy was really in need of a wake up call. It's a completely inappropriate way to open a dialogue with a guy who is coming home stressed out and grumpy and being overly short with the kids. Yes, there is a problem here, and the OP has a right to be concerned; but laying it out in this way would leave about 99% of the stressed out, grumpy parents of the world feeling defensive and pissed off, which in turn becomes just one more hurdle to resolving the problem.
that stress and explosive behavior can be really traumatizing
Nothing in the OP, or the tone of it, suggests that people are exploding or that people are being traumatized. I know I'm quibbling here, but I'm seeing words like "trauma" popping up more than once and I just don't see it, or how framing it in those terms is helpful.
It is not nagging to tell him that his stress and the resulting behavior has a negative affect on your family
It's not nagging, but put like that it's not particularly constructive either. If someone is exhibiting a negative behavior, just telling them they're wrong isn't going to cut it.
My point is: from what the OP is telling us, the husband hasn't always been like this. This is new behavior that came on as a result of a stressful life change, i.e. the new job. That being the case, surely an appropriate first response is "Are you okay? What can we do to make this better?" rather than "You're doing it wrong!"
posted by Broseph at 3:02 AM on March 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
You can convey that not only will it mess up the relationships, it will mess up the kids themselves
This statement is an end response, the kind of thing you'd use after other methods had failed and the guy was really in need of a wake up call. It's a completely inappropriate way to open a dialogue with a guy who is coming home stressed out and grumpy and being overly short with the kids. Yes, there is a problem here, and the OP has a right to be concerned; but laying it out in this way would leave about 99% of the stressed out, grumpy parents of the world feeling defensive and pissed off, which in turn becomes just one more hurdle to resolving the problem.
that stress and explosive behavior can be really traumatizing
Nothing in the OP, or the tone of it, suggests that people are exploding or that people are being traumatized. I know I'm quibbling here, but I'm seeing words like "trauma" popping up more than once and I just don't see it, or how framing it in those terms is helpful.
It is not nagging to tell him that his stress and the resulting behavior has a negative affect on your family
It's not nagging, but put like that it's not particularly constructive either. If someone is exhibiting a negative behavior, just telling them they're wrong isn't going to cut it.
My point is: from what the OP is telling us, the husband hasn't always been like this. This is new behavior that came on as a result of a stressful life change, i.e. the new job. That being the case, surely an appropriate first response is "Are you okay? What can we do to make this better?" rather than "You're doing it wrong!"
posted by Broseph at 3:02 AM on March 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm with Broseph on this one - my husband took a much more demanding new position in his job a year and a half ago and I wish I had sounded as measured and thought about things as well as this post has been worded. It sounds as if you have given him since last May without saying anything. I was in a similar situation with a 2.5yo and a new baby and a part time job myself and the long hours he was pulling and radio silence we were all getting from him when he was home weren't working for me AT ALL. I knew he was stressed and that was how he dealt with it (being inside of his head processing stuff even when he wasn't at work, which wasn't often!) but it was leaving everything on the home front on my shoulders. I think gentleness is the way to approach this, and it sounds like you're trying to be kind. I don't think this has to turn into the battle of the sexes or a gender role thing unless you let it, but I don't think it's at all selfish to be very blunt and honest about what you're noticing, especially in regards to him being short with your kids. He may not actually notice that he's doing it, if its not something you've brought up with him before. It wasn't an instantaneous thing for my guy and actually took a fair amount of tears and discussion on my part for him to realize what a stress it was on ALL of us, but I think the biggest factor that made him realize he needed to leave some stuff at work was me making it clear to him that he had exactly one hour a night of time to spend with his kids before bedtime after he got home and he was spending it brooding over work stress. I would be doing stuff with the kids and they'd be goofing off and laughing and adorable while he was lost in his thoughts and sometimes I would have to say, "Hey! You are missing this! They're here right now and you can't get this time back. Put work away for one hour, please." And that's all I asked, just one hour to start. I had to realize as well that he shoulders most of the earning power at this point, even though if I were working full time in my profession I'd probably make about 150% what he earns, and that if I were in that position, new job and new stresses and new baby, I'd be needing a good year to acclimate as well. After I kept reminding him gently each night about his hour of workless time with the kids and me (this included changing the older kid into PJs, pottying, brushing teeth, bedtime story, etc), eventually as time went on and he got more comfortable in his new position, he was far more comfortable being the one to put limits on himself and his work, as well as manage his responsibilities more efficiently. I'd say it took a solid six months of us taking and a year and a few months total for the message and process to really sink in, and in retrospect, it would have gone a lot faster if I had talked rationally about it with him earlier, rather than letting it stay bottled up inside and then approach it from a crying/overwhelmed standpoint.
posted by takoukla at 4:34 AM on March 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by takoukla at 4:34 AM on March 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Join a gym with child care, like a Y or a JCC. A community group that will have other services, like groups for parents of young children. You can work out during the day, he can work out before coming home. This will de-stress both of you.
Hire a neighborhood kid to come to your house for a couple of hours after school. It's worth $10 a day to have someone playing with your kids so you can shower and do laundry without having to watch the little ones.
Have your toddler fed, bathed and in bed by 7. (This was my Mom's hard and fast rule.) You'll still be dealing with the baby, but you and your husband can have some adult time, and it's important for your marriage and family.
Have Date night, if not once a week once every two weeks. It doesn't have to be much, just a couple of hours outside the house without the kids where you two can connect as adults. You may just go to Subway to share a foot-long, but even that is good.
Take time to do nice physical things for one another. Rub shoulders, give massages, rub feet.
You are both experiencing stress because a new baby and ANYTHING is stressful.
Your family will be fine. Your toddler will be fine. It won't be like this forever.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:06 AM on March 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hire a neighborhood kid to come to your house for a couple of hours after school. It's worth $10 a day to have someone playing with your kids so you can shower and do laundry without having to watch the little ones.
Have your toddler fed, bathed and in bed by 7. (This was my Mom's hard and fast rule.) You'll still be dealing with the baby, but you and your husband can have some adult time, and it's important for your marriage and family.
Have Date night, if not once a week once every two weeks. It doesn't have to be much, just a couple of hours outside the house without the kids where you two can connect as adults. You may just go to Subway to share a foot-long, but even that is good.
Take time to do nice physical things for one another. Rub shoulders, give massages, rub feet.
You are both experiencing stress because a new baby and ANYTHING is stressful.
Your family will be fine. Your toddler will be fine. It won't be like this forever.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:06 AM on March 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I want to third (?) Sockpuppet Liberation Front response. My father was in a similar position when I was a child, stressed from a promotion at work, and bad at processing his feelings without being short/criticizing my brother and I. Those experiences during that critical period made me feel that there was something fundamentally "bad" with me. It still affects me to this day at almost 30 years old and he and I still have a poor relationship. As adults, we can say "oh he's just stressed from work" and not take that in, but as a child you are still developing your sense of self and take all those parental emotions as being reflective of your intrinsic self worth. If only for your kid's sake, don't let your son's father be short with him. When your son talks about this all a decade later, it'll be too late in many ways.
posted by amileighs at 8:17 AM on March 12, 2013
posted by amileighs at 8:17 AM on March 12, 2013
Are you listening to, supporting, and soothing each other? If not, you both might be stressed and also frustrated that your spouse is not helping you (while you help yourself, of course) deal with this stress.
In John Gottman's Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work (often recommended here), the author recommends taking a half hour at the end of each day – fifteen minutes for each person – to share stresses, successes, etc. Perhaps this could be a small, helpful step.
posted by suprenant at 12:45 PM on March 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
In John Gottman's Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work (often recommended here), the author recommends taking a half hour at the end of each day – fifteen minutes for each person – to share stresses, successes, etc. Perhaps this could be a small, helpful step.
posted by suprenant at 12:45 PM on March 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just wanted to say that I agree with Broseph that it doesn't make sense to simply emphasize to him how permanently damaging this can be to the kids - he's probably already feeling some degree of helplessness at work if the stress there is related to demands placed on him that are on the verge of or beyond what he (or anyone else in the same situation) can actually achieve. So you don't want to just make him feel that there are even more things at home that will be inevitably screwed up because of the workload, which might result in him simply throwing up his hands in despair and giving up, especially if he's already forced into that position in his work situation.
My point in mentioning that, apart from simply sharing a relevant experience, is if he's gaining some advantage career-wise or compensation-wise at work in exchange for putting himself under stress, it's definitely a good deal and smart investment in the long run to give up whatever those benefits are in exchange for more harmony at home and for having the head-space to be able to treat his family better. It's as wise a choice as, say, commuting further as your job moves around so that your kids don't have to move to a different school repeatedly. (Which is something my own father did do for me, to the tune of in some years spending more than four hours a day commuting, for which I am grateful.)
posted by Sockpuppet Liberation Front at 5:37 PM on March 13, 2013
My point in mentioning that, apart from simply sharing a relevant experience, is if he's gaining some advantage career-wise or compensation-wise at work in exchange for putting himself under stress, it's definitely a good deal and smart investment in the long run to give up whatever those benefits are in exchange for more harmony at home and for having the head-space to be able to treat his family better. It's as wise a choice as, say, commuting further as your job moves around so that your kids don't have to move to a different school repeatedly. (Which is something my own father did do for me, to the tune of in some years spending more than four hours a day commuting, for which I am grateful.)
posted by Sockpuppet Liberation Front at 5:37 PM on March 13, 2013
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I would also suggest he takes some me-time to decompress before he puts on his Dad-hat at the end of the day.
posted by bleep at 7:09 PM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]