My mean-ass toddler
December 18, 2012 4:13 PM Subscribe
Does a 2.5 year old's aggressive tendencies point toward aggression issues later on? Or will he truly grow out of it (with consistent consequences, etc.)?
Can you give some specifics? It's hard to answer without more information.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:20 PM on December 18, 2012
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:20 PM on December 18, 2012
Hard to say, how aggressive are you talking about? Some aggression is almost to be expected as they push boundaries but if it's to the extreme, that may indicate an issue.
Can we have some examples or situations that have come up?
posted by lpcxa0 at 4:21 PM on December 18, 2012
Can we have some examples or situations that have come up?
posted by lpcxa0 at 4:21 PM on December 18, 2012
Yeah, we'll need more examples. My mild-mannered toddler will haul off and hit me when she's overly tired, overly hungry or, yes, shortly before pooping. We call her the "angry pooper." I know with another friend of mine, her son goes into full-on angry melt-down mode before pooping. He's 5, I think, and she's working on getting him to go at a consistent time of the day so that it won't interfere with school. So, you know, that's one thing.
Another friend of mine dealt with a girl around 2-1/2 at her co-op who seemed to be a sort of bully, really physical and tackling other kids, biting, hitting and then aggressively loving. Turns out, it seems she has maybe some kind of sensory disorder and her mom is looking into resources for it.
There's a wide range of possibilities.
posted by amanda at 4:24 PM on December 18, 2012
Another friend of mine dealt with a girl around 2-1/2 at her co-op who seemed to be a sort of bully, really physical and tackling other kids, biting, hitting and then aggressively loving. Turns out, it seems she has maybe some kind of sensory disorder and her mom is looking into resources for it.
There's a wide range of possibilities.
posted by amanda at 4:24 PM on December 18, 2012
Response by poster: When a kid at a playdate takes his toy he tackles, pinches and pulls hair. He's been known to bite. A kid on the playscape kept getting in his face and not letting him by and he grabbed the kid's hair and bit his face. Not common, bot noteworthy. He's cool with me unless he's exhausted or has a poopy diaper.
More?
posted by kristymcj at 4:24 PM on December 18, 2012
More?
posted by kristymcj at 4:24 PM on December 18, 2012
Can he talk? Does he talk or make sounds to try to influence other people's behavior?
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:29 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:29 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Communication is a biggie! Speaking and hearing too. I'd talk to his pediatrician, who might know him and be able to provide an objective assessment.
Does he have a lot of social opportunities with similar-aged kids yet? Preschool? Classes? Playdates? Does he have more time on his own, with only adults, or a lot of screen time (some controversy there, but more screen time means much less interaction with people)?
A semi-structured preschool-aged class might be really helpful. Swimming, a group music class, something offered by your Parks and Recreation.
With that kind of aggression, in my personal experience, the consequence for a 2.5 year old might be more harsh than is currently being given. Time-away isn't always effective (1 minute per year is standard). Like when he does something so aggressive at a playground, take him home immediately, making it clear why. Get aggressive, go home.
Sorry he is having a hard time! Good luck!
posted by mamabear at 4:39 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Does he have a lot of social opportunities with similar-aged kids yet? Preschool? Classes? Playdates? Does he have more time on his own, with only adults, or a lot of screen time (some controversy there, but more screen time means much less interaction with people)?
A semi-structured preschool-aged class might be really helpful. Swimming, a group music class, something offered by your Parks and Recreation.
With that kind of aggression, in my personal experience, the consequence for a 2.5 year old might be more harsh than is currently being given. Time-away isn't always effective (1 minute per year is standard). Like when he does something so aggressive at a playground, take him home immediately, making it clear why. Get aggressive, go home.
Sorry he is having a hard time! Good luck!
posted by mamabear at 4:39 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm sort of on the "this is normal albeit irritating and embarassing behavior" side of things but the biting has gotta stop. Also, I'm sure you're doing this already, but please try to insist he apologize to whoever he's hurt. Make him get in the habit of it now even if he gets super stubborn about it. It's really frustrating to not see parents teaching this to their young ones and I've had more than my fair share of incidents in which little kids hurt me, animals around me, or my stuff while being aggressive and no apologies were made.
BTW, both incidents you've described involve your son feeling threatened. Maybe work at this from that angle?
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:45 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
BTW, both incidents you've described involve your son feeling threatened. Maybe work at this from that angle?
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:45 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Biting itself is not unusual. I've heard of many toddlers doing that. And certainly toddlers express their frustrations in various ways, especially if their communication skills are lacking and/or they are hungry, tired, etc. At that age they still have a lot of trouble processing emotions. Have you tried modelling correct behavior? Does he seem to be innately aggressive, such as being very assertive, demanding, focused on himself and not paying attention to other people, etc.?
posted by Dansaman at 4:48 PM on December 18, 2012
posted by Dansaman at 4:48 PM on December 18, 2012
Great question but don't start worrying quite yet. This is just a developmental period during which kids are figuring out their tactile ability and starting to understand interpersonal boundaries. Check this out. (Normal stages of Human Development.)
Stay on top of things as you have been and give this developmental period a month or two before you see a counselor or someone with a background in child psychology. In my experience this is very common and doesn't last very long.
posted by snsranch at 5:18 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Stay on top of things as you have been and give this developmental period a month or two before you see a counselor or someone with a background in child psychology. In my experience this is very common and doesn't last very long.
posted by snsranch at 5:18 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Amanda: Aggressively loving rings a bell too. He's that way toward his 6 month old brother.
LobsterMitten: He talks a bit better than average. We're working on what to say when someone does something but it's rarely put into practice.
MamaBear: We do playdates daily at parks or back yards and screen time is limited. Thanks!
Birds: Notable theme. We apologize. Suck it, Haim Ginott!
Danasman: He's intense, for sure. Pretty empathetic normally, but when he's mad he's different.
snsranch: Awesome Helpful
Rope: OK, I like the phrase "firecracker" it's a more flattering frame.
posted by kristymcj at 5:57 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
LobsterMitten: He talks a bit better than average. We're working on what to say when someone does something but it's rarely put into practice.
MamaBear: We do playdates daily at parks or back yards and screen time is limited. Thanks!
Birds: Notable theme. We apologize. Suck it, Haim Ginott!
Danasman: He's intense, for sure. Pretty empathetic normally, but when he's mad he's different.
snsranch: Awesome Helpful
Rope: OK, I like the phrase "firecracker" it's a more flattering frame.
posted by kristymcj at 5:57 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Our 3yo can be like that too (although no biting or hair pulling). If he becomes unfriendly, usually I defuse things by saying "Let's play" or something like that, which he repeats to the other kid.
Sometimes, though, nothing can be done, and they will fight over toys. I try to stop it when the pushing and hitting start.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:18 PM on December 18, 2012
Sometimes, though, nothing can be done, and they will fight over toys. I try to stop it when the pushing and hitting start.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:18 PM on December 18, 2012
Maybe this is old school. My kids are grown, but when they were that age I remember that they didn't understand the emotions they were feeling and could be overwhelmed by them.
In the example you describe at the playground, for instance, I'd of course first make sure everyone was safe. Then I'd talk to Son about how it felt when he was being trapped by Kid, give him words to describe those feelings: mad, hot, angry. Also explain that biting is not ok. Give lots of hugs to reward him for trying out those words that day.
As soon as the opportunity presented itself, we'd bring up the word/emotion connection again. Toddlers get frustrated pretty easily so I could see this one being reinforced by dinnertime. We get down at kid level again and talk about what 'mad' is. "Use your words," and give them age appropriate ways to express 'mad' without biting or hair- pulling.
This is when you realize that your life is going to include the word "No!" for a while.
posted by toastedbeagle at 3:46 AM on December 19, 2012
In the example you describe at the playground, for instance, I'd of course first make sure everyone was safe. Then I'd talk to Son about how it felt when he was being trapped by Kid, give him words to describe those feelings: mad, hot, angry. Also explain that biting is not ok. Give lots of hugs to reward him for trying out those words that day.
As soon as the opportunity presented itself, we'd bring up the word/emotion connection again. Toddlers get frustrated pretty easily so I could see this one being reinforced by dinnertime. We get down at kid level again and talk about what 'mad' is. "Use your words," and give them age appropriate ways to express 'mad' without biting or hair- pulling.
This is when you realize that your life is going to include the word "No!" for a while.
posted by toastedbeagle at 3:46 AM on December 19, 2012
This is definitely something you can bring up with your kid's pediatrician
posted by Blasdelb at 4:41 AM on December 19, 2012
posted by Blasdelb at 4:41 AM on December 19, 2012
All 2 year olds are sociopaths. Civility is something we learn, I'm not a believer that it's built into our dna. My youngest had an issue with biting at that age and we had great success giving him an alternative action whenever it happened. Just redirect the behavior to a kiss, or a hug where appropriate. A lot of times these kids bite because they want to show emotion and they don't know what to do. Unfortunately this will continue on into adulthood if we can't figure out how to express our emotions in a socially appropriate manner.
posted by any major dude at 5:28 AM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by any major dude at 5:28 AM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think it's a stage more than a personality. They don't have empathy to speak of until kindergarten, so they have to learn interpersonal rules like a foreign language -- 2.5 is the beginning of this process (since most advice is that kids don't really need peer time until 3). Also, the bigger the feelings, the bigger the break-through=craziness. Our daughter is almost 5, is mostly a joy, but occasionally has stretches (days) of being very uncooperative and moments of kicking/hitting/spitting fury -- the latter can be a result of overtiredness, feeling misunderstood or over-bossed, or even shame about something she did that she knew better than to do (shame at being called out is a big one). I think she'll be a neat kid (her teachers seem to think so too), but there's just a lot of high-level processing that isn't available to her yet, and she's strong-willed enough to sometimes resist "good choices" like hitting the couch instead or whatever. All you can do is keep providing the limits and expecting regular testing (and/or regular inability to control self) for some time yet.
I wish I could say that "the terrible twos" are a thing that will be over soon, but our smart and strong-willed kid has been harder at 3 and 4 than at 2, if less constantly. I hear there's a brief equilibrium at 5 . . . Hang in there!
posted by acm at 8:00 AM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wish I could say that "the terrible twos" are a thing that will be over soon, but our smart and strong-willed kid has been harder at 3 and 4 than at 2, if less constantly. I hear there's a brief equilibrium at 5 . . . Hang in there!
posted by acm at 8:00 AM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, also mirroring is really helpful at your son's age (I got a lot out of Happiest Toddler) -- like "you're really upset!" "Billy is mad at Mom, he wanted extra cookies but only got 1. More cookies! says Billy" "you want all the cars. I don't want to share! you say." It can make you feel a bit like Fred Flinstone, but sometimes they'll really look up at you (amazed) and calm down when they realize you understand. They must feel like sand in ocean waves sometimes, having so little say in their lives...
posted by acm at 8:03 AM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by acm at 8:03 AM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Dude, kids grow out of unreasonable 2.5-year-old stuff with or without "consistent consequences." They don't stay 2.5-year-old wild ids forever. "Consequences" are still pretty nebulous at that age, so watching your kid carefully and removing him from the situation is really the best advice you've gotten.
What you've described isn't really aggression anyway, it's overreaction and feeling overwhelmed. It sounds pretty normal.
If you feel really worried about this, you could talk to your kid's pediatrician. I wouldn't, personally. Not to sound all Dr. Sears-brainwashed, but I have been less than impressed by pediatrician behavioral advice. (I have been consistently impressed with their ability to diagnose and treat illnesses, though.)
Labeling feelings is also a good thing. Emphasis on apologizing is meaningless at this stage. (You can and should apologize on his behalf, but the whole, "What do we say...?" song and dance is silly for little kids.)
Not to get all gender essentialist here, but my son is a BANG AROUND AND HIT WITH STICKS toddler, and my closest mom friends have really demure girls who just don't have his relentless energy and drive, and sometimes it's easy for me to compare them and get all mopey or scared about What I've Done or Not Done As a Parent. But that makes me miserable, so don't do that. Inborn temperament is a thing.
Help your kid avoid feeling overwhelmed and he'll stop overreacting.
posted by purpleclover at 10:20 AM on December 19, 2012
What you've described isn't really aggression anyway, it's overreaction and feeling overwhelmed. It sounds pretty normal.
If you feel really worried about this, you could talk to your kid's pediatrician. I wouldn't, personally. Not to sound all Dr. Sears-brainwashed, but I have been less than impressed by pediatrician behavioral advice. (I have been consistently impressed with their ability to diagnose and treat illnesses, though.)
Labeling feelings is also a good thing. Emphasis on apologizing is meaningless at this stage. (You can and should apologize on his behalf, but the whole, "What do we say...?" song and dance is silly for little kids.)
Not to get all gender essentialist here, but my son is a BANG AROUND AND HIT WITH STICKS toddler, and my closest mom friends have really demure girls who just don't have his relentless energy and drive, and sometimes it's easy for me to compare them and get all mopey or scared about What I've Done or Not Done As a Parent. But that makes me miserable, so don't do that. Inborn temperament is a thing.
Help your kid avoid feeling overwhelmed and he'll stop overreacting.
posted by purpleclover at 10:20 AM on December 19, 2012
He's at the right age for pre-growth-spurt testosterone surges. It's kind of like miniature roid rage out of nowhere.
I do think that you need to come down hard on the biting, hair-pulling, and general hitting below the belt. But, these antics otherwise need to be waited out, with plenty of hugs once the effect has worn off. Don't forget to talk about what happened, and why it was wrong. It won't stop the next one, but these lessons are critical for him to remember when he becomes school age.
posted by Citrus at 10:34 AM on December 19, 2012
I do think that you need to come down hard on the biting, hair-pulling, and general hitting below the belt. But, these antics otherwise need to be waited out, with plenty of hugs once the effect has worn off. Don't forget to talk about what happened, and why it was wrong. It won't stop the next one, but these lessons are critical for him to remember when he becomes school age.
posted by Citrus at 10:34 AM on December 19, 2012
Yeah, my kid was a biter. When we got more details, we often found out that some other kid had been harassing him; his problem was, he tries to ignore pestering, but then gets pushed till he snaps.
So we worked with him by playing out situations..."What do you do if Dylan pushes you again?" "Tell him to stop it!" "If he keeps doing it?" "Tell the teacher!" etc.
He's 7 now and a perfectly sociable kid. We still have to work on boundaries sometimes, with grabbing and hugging and occasionally hitting, but those are rare, and usually tied to him being tired or hungry. We reiterate that We Don't Hit in Our Family (to get around the fact that other kids obviously do hit).
2.5 is really young. Just keep working with him, helping him find alternate strategies for situations where he feels threatened/harassed/angry.
posted by emjaybee at 10:56 AM on December 19, 2012
So we worked with him by playing out situations..."What do you do if Dylan pushes you again?" "Tell him to stop it!" "If he keeps doing it?" "Tell the teacher!" etc.
He's 7 now and a perfectly sociable kid. We still have to work on boundaries sometimes, with grabbing and hugging and occasionally hitting, but those are rare, and usually tied to him being tired or hungry. We reiterate that We Don't Hit in Our Family (to get around the fact that other kids obviously do hit).
2.5 is really young. Just keep working with him, helping him find alternate strategies for situations where he feels threatened/harassed/angry.
posted by emjaybee at 10:56 AM on December 19, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
Can you be more specific about your toddler's aggressive behavior?
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:20 PM on December 18, 2012 [1 favorite]