Letting Sleeping Dogs Lie
December 12, 2012 5:08 PM Subscribe
So I screwed up and had an affair.
While I can't say it just happened, it's over, and I'm certainly not going to do this again. Why? The guilt and shame were overpowering--to the extent that a couple of days later, I broke down and told my wife everything. She took the news calmly and quietly (I was crying like a child) and simply asked, "Why?" I explained that I was looking for closeness (we've been having intimacy issues since we we found out five years ago that we can't have another child) and that I craved attention both physical and emotional. She asked me whether I was going to do this again. I assured her I was not. My wife said that I "was probably beating myself up" more than she would and that she'd have to think about what had happened.
That was three weeks ago. Nothing--not one word--has since been said about this affair. We're living exactly the same as if nothing had happened. My question is this: Do I let this lie? Do I bring it up again or should I wait for her to process this? The sticking point is this: My wife isn't very emotional at all and could probably go for years, possibly forever, without dealing with or discussing this.
We've been in couples' counseling before (over intimacy issues), and immediately before the affair she said she didn't want to go back because it would probably lead to divorce, so counseling is probably out of the question. Yes, I want to stay married (the affair actually made me realize that very clearly), but not addressing this is the elephant in the room. If we're going to move forward, or if she wants to cut her losses and leave me, this is something I think we have to talk about. Should I ask her where she is with all of this or wait for her to make the opening?
While I can't say it just happened, it's over, and I'm certainly not going to do this again. Why? The guilt and shame were overpowering--to the extent that a couple of days later, I broke down and told my wife everything. She took the news calmly and quietly (I was crying like a child) and simply asked, "Why?" I explained that I was looking for closeness (we've been having intimacy issues since we we found out five years ago that we can't have another child) and that I craved attention both physical and emotional. She asked me whether I was going to do this again. I assured her I was not. My wife said that I "was probably beating myself up" more than she would and that she'd have to think about what had happened.
That was three weeks ago. Nothing--not one word--has since been said about this affair. We're living exactly the same as if nothing had happened. My question is this: Do I let this lie? Do I bring it up again or should I wait for her to process this? The sticking point is this: My wife isn't very emotional at all and could probably go for years, possibly forever, without dealing with or discussing this.
We've been in couples' counseling before (over intimacy issues), and immediately before the affair she said she didn't want to go back because it would probably lead to divorce, so counseling is probably out of the question. Yes, I want to stay married (the affair actually made me realize that very clearly), but not addressing this is the elephant in the room. If we're going to move forward, or if she wants to cut her losses and leave me, this is something I think we have to talk about. Should I ask her where she is with all of this or wait for her to make the opening?
I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out your wife's feelings about you and your marriage from this question, and I think that may be because you don't know.
I don't think the issue is discussing the affair -- it's out, she knows, she's thinking about it. The issue seems to be an older one, which is your desire for intimacy and attention and sense that you aren't getting that. But what does she want? What did she say she wanted in counseling? Why did she think that returning to counseling would lead to divorce? What does she want from you and your marriage? Is there anything that she does not feel she is getting?
I think you do need to talk, but about these topics. You need to know what she wants from the marriage and you and how she feels. And you need to listen hard to her, and address what she says. I suggest that you at some point tell her all the reasons you know now that you truly want to stay married to her, too.
In summary, I don't think you bring up the affair again, although you certainly should be attentive if she does, but it sounds as though you're past due to find out and act on what your wife wants and needs.
posted by bearwife at 5:18 PM on December 12, 2012 [18 favorites]
I don't think the issue is discussing the affair -- it's out, she knows, she's thinking about it. The issue seems to be an older one, which is your desire for intimacy and attention and sense that you aren't getting that. But what does she want? What did she say she wanted in counseling? Why did she think that returning to counseling would lead to divorce? What does she want from you and your marriage? Is there anything that she does not feel she is getting?
I think you do need to talk, but about these topics. You need to know what she wants from the marriage and you and how she feels. And you need to listen hard to her, and address what she says. I suggest that you at some point tell her all the reasons you know now that you truly want to stay married to her, too.
In summary, I don't think you bring up the affair again, although you certainly should be attentive if she does, but it sounds as though you're past due to find out and act on what your wife wants and needs.
posted by bearwife at 5:18 PM on December 12, 2012 [18 favorites]
Do not force the issue. Wait for her to process this.
Any further needling by you at this point, regardless of whether you may intend it as helping her (or the relationship) "move forward," would essentially be a matter of you pestering her to hurry up and forgive you already so you can put it out of your mind. In other words you would be making additional emotional demands on your wife right after dropping an enormous emotional bomb on her. If YOU need further analysis of this, take care of that need YOURSELF, or with a counselor. Do not impose YOUR needs on her at this time, even (especially) masked as some effort at emotional helping.
...or if she wants to cut her losses and leave me, this is something I think we have to talk about...
You know, this is pretty much a sword of Damocles that's going to be hanging over your head for about, oh, ever. Get used to it. Again, if YOU need peace or closure or something, go take care of that for yourself. Do not make her take care of it for you.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 5:20 PM on December 12, 2012 [21 favorites]
Any further needling by you at this point, regardless of whether you may intend it as helping her (or the relationship) "move forward," would essentially be a matter of you pestering her to hurry up and forgive you already so you can put it out of your mind. In other words you would be making additional emotional demands on your wife right after dropping an enormous emotional bomb on her. If YOU need further analysis of this, take care of that need YOURSELF, or with a counselor. Do not impose YOUR needs on her at this time, even (especially) masked as some effort at emotional helping.
...or if she wants to cut her losses and leave me, this is something I think we have to talk about...
You know, this is pretty much a sword of Damocles that's going to be hanging over your head for about, oh, ever. Get used to it. Again, if YOU need peace or closure or something, go take care of that for yourself. Do not make her take care of it for you.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 5:20 PM on December 12, 2012 [21 favorites]
Is she showing you more attention? I mean, one of the things you cited about the affair is that you were craving more attention.
Is she giving you any?
I think maybe you confessed because it was better than waiting to see what would happen, and the guilt was getting to you. But now you're waiting to see what will happen. Again. And you're not sure whether you should be demonstrating some level of guilt or just pretend (as she seems to be) it never happened.
But it did. Happen.
It seems to me you're in the same spot you were before the affair.
This may be her super power --- not reacting to your relationship.
posted by vitabellosi at 5:21 PM on December 12, 2012 [9 favorites]
Is she giving you any?
I think maybe you confessed because it was better than waiting to see what would happen, and the guilt was getting to you. But now you're waiting to see what will happen. Again. And you're not sure whether you should be demonstrating some level of guilt or just pretend (as she seems to be) it never happened.
But it did. Happen.
It seems to me you're in the same spot you were before the affair.
This may be her super power --- not reacting to your relationship.
posted by vitabellosi at 5:21 PM on December 12, 2012 [9 favorites]
immediately before the affair she said she didn't want to go back because it would probably lead to divorce, so counseling is probably out of the question.
Unless I'm completely misinterpreting this, this statement sounds very much like someone who would rather not talk about emotions, and who is willing to pretend like bad feelings aren't present.
I would not ask her about her feelings.
posted by OmieWise at 5:29 PM on December 12, 2012 [6 favorites]
Unless I'm completely misinterpreting this, this statement sounds very much like someone who would rather not talk about emotions, and who is willing to pretend like bad feelings aren't present.
I would not ask her about her feelings.
posted by OmieWise at 5:29 PM on December 12, 2012 [6 favorites]
I have some experience with this, although not in a marriage. One party cheated and disclosed in teary fashion, the other party quietly took it all in, asked a couple of questions, and never discussed it again. They lived happily ever after (seriously!).
I think this can work where the cheater can pinpoint the source of the cheating in order to do what he/she needs to do so that it never happens again, and reassure the other party that it will never happen again. Optimistically, it's possible that she trusts you enough to know that you've dealt with this, and that she's processing that in her own way.
Then again -- if you still aren't getting what you need from the relationship, then you haven't actually dealt with this, and you need to start talking.
posted by murfed13 at 5:31 PM on December 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think this can work where the cheater can pinpoint the source of the cheating in order to do what he/she needs to do so that it never happens again, and reassure the other party that it will never happen again. Optimistically, it's possible that she trusts you enough to know that you've dealt with this, and that she's processing that in her own way.
Then again -- if you still aren't getting what you need from the relationship, then you haven't actually dealt with this, and you need to start talking.
posted by murfed13 at 5:31 PM on December 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Agreeing with the above - what do you need out of your marriage? Are you getting it? If not, what could Team You Guys do to help make that happen? If you want to stay married, what do you think she needs to help make that happen?
Is there a Team You Guys? If not, can you help make it happen without counseling?
posted by ldthomps at 5:45 PM on December 12, 2012
Is there a Team You Guys? If not, can you help make it happen without counseling?
posted by ldthomps at 5:45 PM on December 12, 2012
I like several answers so far. Let me just list some concrete ways forward based on the assumption that, although you can't make a marriage good by yourself, you've obviously reached a point where reflection on how well you've held up your end of the deal wouldn't hurt:
- get individual counseling for yourself
- read everything you can about how lasting marriages work (e.g. Gottman's books)
- establish new habits that show you're an awesome partner: show her admiration and affection daily; ask her about her day; do lots of chores; clean yourself up nicely; help more with the kids, if any; do fun things with her that she likes to do; etc. I'm not saying buy your way out of this with gifts--just be a great partner in ways you can sustain
- give it time--if you've not been doing so well even before the affair, there may be serious longstanding trust issues over basics and resentful/withdrawn behaviors on her end and she's not going to flip around on that just because you hurt her and cried about it
In short, be sure you're showing her every day that you're a positive force in her life that she would have good reason to open up to and depend on. Then you'll actually have a negotiating position if she's not talking to you, where at the moment you seem to have little.
But I think there is a possibility she's getting her ducks in a row for an escape of her own. Prepare yourself for hard news.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 5:51 PM on December 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
- get individual counseling for yourself
- read everything you can about how lasting marriages work (e.g. Gottman's books)
- establish new habits that show you're an awesome partner: show her admiration and affection daily; ask her about her day; do lots of chores; clean yourself up nicely; help more with the kids, if any; do fun things with her that she likes to do; etc. I'm not saying buy your way out of this with gifts--just be a great partner in ways you can sustain
- give it time--if you've not been doing so well even before the affair, there may be serious longstanding trust issues over basics and resentful/withdrawn behaviors on her end and she's not going to flip around on that just because you hurt her and cried about it
In short, be sure you're showing her every day that you're a positive force in her life that she would have good reason to open up to and depend on. Then you'll actually have a negotiating position if she's not talking to you, where at the moment you seem to have little.
But I think there is a possibility she's getting her ducks in a row for an escape of her own. Prepare yourself for hard news.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 5:51 PM on December 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
It seems like the problems in your marriage are those that couples counseling is directly meant to try to address. And your use of the phrase "intimacy issues" stands out to me; it seems like you are not communicating well on a really basic level. Maybe she's completely emotionally cut-off from you--and maybe she's not. You can't really know until you talk about it.
I would ask her to go back to counseling with you. If she won't, go by yourself.
posted by tooloudinhere at 5:58 PM on December 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I would ask her to go back to counseling with you. If she won't, go by yourself.
posted by tooloudinhere at 5:58 PM on December 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Start counseling by yourself. You have your own work to do, and you need to show that you're doing it but also you need to do it.
Work with your therapist to decide how to address this at home.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:58 PM on December 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
Work with your therapist to decide how to address this at home.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:58 PM on December 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
You want to talk and she doesn't - this is what counselling is for - even if she won't go, you need to.
posted by heyjude at 6:02 PM on December 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by heyjude at 6:02 PM on December 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think I interpret the "counseling may lead to divorce" and not talking about your confession differently than others.
I think sometimes people who are actually really emotional people but don't have fantastic skills for expressing those feelings moment to moment are functionally terrified of their own emotions, and feel like there are only two speeds: (fake) calm or OUT OF FUCKING CONTROL!!!!!!! and so it can seem like the better option is to not talk about something, because the instant you open the faucet, that's it, death and despair and divorce are going to pour out.
So I think a better option for you might be to say that you want to talk about what happened, and you understand that the two of you don't currently have great skills re: talking about conflict and uncomfortable emotions, so you'd like to maybe do this talking it out with a professional in the room, and you love her, and the marriage is not going to end the instant somebody says "I AM SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW" (which I suspect is what is going on.)
But you certainly know your spouse better than anyone else speculating on the internet, so please, whichever of these answers sounds most like your relationship, do that and ignore the rest. I hope you guys can find some peace, together or apart.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 7:32 PM on December 12, 2012 [10 favorites]
I think sometimes people who are actually really emotional people but don't have fantastic skills for expressing those feelings moment to moment are functionally terrified of their own emotions, and feel like there are only two speeds: (fake) calm or OUT OF FUCKING CONTROL!!!!!!! and so it can seem like the better option is to not talk about something, because the instant you open the faucet, that's it, death and despair and divorce are going to pour out.
So I think a better option for you might be to say that you want to talk about what happened, and you understand that the two of you don't currently have great skills re: talking about conflict and uncomfortable emotions, so you'd like to maybe do this talking it out with a professional in the room, and you love her, and the marriage is not going to end the instant somebody says "I AM SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW" (which I suspect is what is going on.)
But you certainly know your spouse better than anyone else speculating on the internet, so please, whichever of these answers sounds most like your relationship, do that and ignore the rest. I hope you guys can find some peace, together or apart.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 7:32 PM on December 12, 2012 [10 favorites]
Yes. You made a choice that you now regret. You're human. Delving into our regrets and choices and reasons and feelings is what intimacy is. Start where you are.
posted by rosa at 7:52 PM on December 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by rosa at 7:52 PM on December 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Is it possible that she has cheated on you? That could account for her somewhat perplexing response.
Don't take my speculation as an excuse to make accusations as a means to shift the focus away from your bad deeds, but it could explain why she'd have a hard time being angry with you. And yet, it would provide her with an opportunity to leave the relationship while maintaining the moral high ground.
I think its more likely that she is the kind of person who cannot do what most of us do in relationships -- make some part of her well-being contingent on how you care for her (or don't care for her). That kind of vulnerability on her part may be the indicator of closeness and attention you were striving for in your relationship with her and in your pursuit of the other.
(I know at least one woman like this)
posted by vitabellosi at 7:53 PM on December 12, 2012
Don't take my speculation as an excuse to make accusations as a means to shift the focus away from your bad deeds, but it could explain why she'd have a hard time being angry with you. And yet, it would provide her with an opportunity to leave the relationship while maintaining the moral high ground.
I think its more likely that she is the kind of person who cannot do what most of us do in relationships -- make some part of her well-being contingent on how you care for her (or don't care for her). That kind of vulnerability on her part may be the indicator of closeness and attention you were striving for in your relationship with her and in your pursuit of the other.
(I know at least one woman like this)
posted by vitabellosi at 7:53 PM on December 12, 2012
Here's how I interpret what happened:
You acted out in an effort to get her attention. That's what the affair was, that's what the histrionic confession was. It was your [apparently subconscious] attempt to break through to her and let her know she needed to get real, that you needed more intimacy.
It failed. She didn't take the bait. She's not going to get more intimate.
You need to decide if you can live next to this dry well for the rest of your life. If you're truly happy in your marriage as you say, then you're set. But if you really do need more intimacy you should find a more honest way to get it in the future. That may mean a separation from your wife. But first there's some digging deep for you to do, on your own if she won't do it with you.
posted by alms at 8:10 PM on December 12, 2012 [18 favorites]
You acted out in an effort to get her attention. That's what the affair was, that's what the histrionic confession was. It was your [apparently subconscious] attempt to break through to her and let her know she needed to get real, that you needed more intimacy.
It failed. She didn't take the bait. She's not going to get more intimate.
You need to decide if you can live next to this dry well for the rest of your life. If you're truly happy in your marriage as you say, then you're set. But if you really do need more intimacy you should find a more honest way to get it in the future. That may mean a separation from your wife. But first there's some digging deep for you to do, on your own if she won't do it with you.
posted by alms at 8:10 PM on December 12, 2012 [18 favorites]
I think if you can live w never discussing it again, then sure, move on. If you need a more definite I forgive you answer from her, them try to bring it up. You obviously had issues already, don't let this get in the way and be an issue if you think you can both move past it.
posted by Georgia Is All Out Of Smokes at 8:30 PM on December 12, 2012
posted by Georgia Is All Out Of Smokes at 8:30 PM on December 12, 2012
Perhaps you should simply let her know that "In light of what I've done, I'm going to talk to a counselor, because I need to work through this. I'm not going to push you to talk about your feelings about what I did, because you've said you're going to think about it, and I know you'll share when you're ready, if you ever are. However, I do want you to know that I'm still committed to us, despite my mistake, and if you find at some point you're ready to join me in counseling, you would be very welcome there."
Then go to counseling and work through this, and eventually with your counselor's help, you'll either figure out how to broach this subject with her, or perhaps she'll decide on her own to join you, or perhaps your counselor will help you explore whether this relationship has legs. No way to know until you get started.
posted by davejay at 9:05 PM on December 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
Then go to counseling and work through this, and eventually with your counselor's help, you'll either figure out how to broach this subject with her, or perhaps she'll decide on her own to join you, or perhaps your counselor will help you explore whether this relationship has legs. No way to know until you get started.
posted by davejay at 9:05 PM on December 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
I had the same thought as vitabellosi that maybe your wife also had an affair, but that's of course very speculative. If you suspect that might be the case, you could ask her whether she's ever been in the same situation you were in.
But regardless, I think the important issue now is you still have the existing problem that you are not happy and fulfilled, and what are you going to do about that? You can't deny you need physical and emotional intimacy. You've decided you don't want to get it from an affair. So how and where are you going to get it if counseling/therapy/conversation don't work and you still can't get it from your wife?
posted by Dansaman at 2:16 AM on December 13, 2012
But regardless, I think the important issue now is you still have the existing problem that you are not happy and fulfilled, and what are you going to do about that? You can't deny you need physical and emotional intimacy. You've decided you don't want to get it from an affair. So how and where are you going to get it if counseling/therapy/conversation don't work and you still can't get it from your wife?
posted by Dansaman at 2:16 AM on December 13, 2012
I sure don't think the affair was a mistake, more trying to bring light to what's going on here, which is that you have no emotional intimacy with your wife. She's giving you nothing, and she has not been giving you anything for five years, and it's driving you 'round the bend. Or that's my read of it anyways.
Seems to me that you don't so much have a wife as a room-mate. Room-mates don't need to talk to one another, not really, not beyond the basics of keeping the housing situation up and running IE who's going to take out the garbage or pay the insurance bill this month etc and etc.
And she's told you that if you try to become more than room-mates -- by trying once more to communicate through the help of a qualified therapist -- seems to me she's saying "Hey, you wanna push on this talking to me thing, do that and I'm walking out the door, I'll wave you goodbye with a song in my heart, a smile on my lips."
You've got to decide if *you* want to be in that marriage, just exactly as it is right now. Because it may change but I'm not seeing that happening, and you sure don't sound real happy in it.'
posted by dancestoblue at 2:16 AM on December 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
Seems to me that you don't so much have a wife as a room-mate. Room-mates don't need to talk to one another, not really, not beyond the basics of keeping the housing situation up and running IE who's going to take out the garbage or pay the insurance bill this month etc and etc.
And she's told you that if you try to become more than room-mates -- by trying once more to communicate through the help of a qualified therapist -- seems to me she's saying "Hey, you wanna push on this talking to me thing, do that and I'm walking out the door, I'll wave you goodbye with a song in my heart, a smile on my lips."
You've got to decide if *you* want to be in that marriage, just exactly as it is right now. Because it may change but I'm not seeing that happening, and you sure don't sound real happy in it.'
posted by dancestoblue at 2:16 AM on December 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
if she wants to cut her losses and leave me
Between calmly reacting to your affair, the long-term intimacy issues, informing you that further counselling will lead to divorce, and stonewalling about the affair, I'd say she wants you to leave her.
A long time ago.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:25 AM on December 13, 2012 [12 favorites]
Between calmly reacting to your affair, the long-term intimacy issues, informing you that further counselling will lead to divorce, and stonewalling about the affair, I'd say she wants you to leave her.
A long time ago.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:25 AM on December 13, 2012 [12 favorites]
"We've been in couples' counseling before (over intimacy issues), and immediately before the affair she said she didn't want to go back because it would probably lead to divorce, so counseling is probably out of the question."
LOL, what?
If having honest communication where you each talk about what you want will lead to you guys deciding that you want a divorce, maybe that would be not such a bad thing.
posted by Blasdelb at 5:45 AM on December 13, 2012 [6 favorites]
LOL, what?
If having honest communication where you each talk about what you want will lead to you guys deciding that you want a divorce, maybe that would be not such a bad thing.
posted by Blasdelb at 5:45 AM on December 13, 2012 [6 favorites]
You had an affair to fill a void in your life that was lacking. Intimacy. You are now back to square one in your marriage. A marriage that lacks intimacy and nothing is being done to fix the problem. You say you would never have an affair again, but if this issue is not resolved, a caring, attentive woman is going to be very tempting if your not getting your intimacy needs met by your wife. The big red flag that went up for me is when she said if you went back to couples counseling it would probably end in divorce. In my eyes, that means she has no intention of working on the marriage and her heart is not really into it. Sorry, but I think you would be better off with someone who can commit to being close and affectionate with you. She is not it.
posted by sybarite09 at 5:55 AM on December 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by sybarite09 at 5:55 AM on December 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
Do you want to stay married if your wife can't give you the intimacy that you want? Why?
I think that you are much closer to divorce than you think. Is your wife engaged in your marriage, or is she just there as much as she needs to be.
While I HATE blaming the cheated on spouse for the cheater's cheating, there is an element of your wife's attitude contributing to the situation.
Your affair wasn't about intimacy, it was an experiment to see if you were over your wife. You're not, but she may be over you, and she may have been over you for quite some time.
You need to sit down with her and do the hard, painful work. "I get the impression from the way that you're behaving that you don't love me anymore and that you don't much care what I do. I still love you, and I want an equally loving and caring marriage. Are you able to do that with me, or are we just too scared to end this?"
Because truthfully, that's where you are.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:35 AM on December 13, 2012 [4 favorites]
I think that you are much closer to divorce than you think. Is your wife engaged in your marriage, or is she just there as much as she needs to be.
While I HATE blaming the cheated on spouse for the cheater's cheating, there is an element of your wife's attitude contributing to the situation.
Your affair wasn't about intimacy, it was an experiment to see if you were over your wife. You're not, but she may be over you, and she may have been over you for quite some time.
You need to sit down with her and do the hard, painful work. "I get the impression from the way that you're behaving that you don't love me anymore and that you don't much care what I do. I still love you, and I want an equally loving and caring marriage. Are you able to do that with me, or are we just too scared to end this?"
Because truthfully, that's where you are.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:35 AM on December 13, 2012 [4 favorites]
We've been in couples' counseling before (over intimacy issues), and immediately before the affair she said she didn't want to go back because it would probably lead to divorce, so counseling is probably out of the question.
Did she say why she thinks it would probably lead to divorce? My interpretation of this is that she doesn't want to confront the issues that lead to your problems. This approach "works" for a lot of people (in that they stay together), but it doesn't seem like something you want.
posted by benbenson at 6:40 AM on December 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
Did she say why she thinks it would probably lead to divorce? My interpretation of this is that she doesn't want to confront the issues that lead to your problems. This approach "works" for a lot of people (in that they stay together), but it doesn't seem like something you want.
posted by benbenson at 6:40 AM on December 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
My wife isn't very emotional at all and could probably go for years, possibly forever, without dealing with or discussing this.
But you can't live like that. And it's okay for you to be that way.
A good therapist will help you work through your own shame and guilt. You have a lot of anger at her still that you can't resolve until you can work through your anger at yourself. Meanwhile, she's got her own processing to do. Maybe it'll take her a few months before she's really ready to talk about it. But if you need to talk it over with her, then that's what you need to do. And you need an impartial party to help you get better and give you direction as to when it's time to make your ultimatum to your wife.
I know you cheated. I know you don't get to make demands for what's going to seem like a very long time. But if you want to stay married to this woman, you will eventually need to change the fundamental dynamic. And ignoring your wants and needs is not going to get you there. That's what brought you here.
posted by disconnect at 6:50 AM on December 13, 2012
But you can't live like that. And it's okay for you to be that way.
A good therapist will help you work through your own shame and guilt. You have a lot of anger at her still that you can't resolve until you can work through your anger at yourself. Meanwhile, she's got her own processing to do. Maybe it'll take her a few months before she's really ready to talk about it. But if you need to talk it over with her, then that's what you need to do. And you need an impartial party to help you get better and give you direction as to when it's time to make your ultimatum to your wife.
I know you cheated. I know you don't get to make demands for what's going to seem like a very long time. But if you want to stay married to this woman, you will eventually need to change the fundamental dynamic. And ignoring your wants and needs is not going to get you there. That's what brought you here.
posted by disconnect at 6:50 AM on December 13, 2012
Echoing go to counseling yourself. And give her time to decide how to process and proceed without pressing her. You cheated, you don't get to decide the timeline for her. You passed up that opportunity when you hopped into someone else's bed.
However, you do get to decide your timeline. If you can't take the silence about it, be fair and end it.
posted by skittlekicks at 7:53 AM on December 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
However, you do get to decide your timeline. If you can't take the silence about it, be fair and end it.
posted by skittlekicks at 7:53 AM on December 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
When you say you went to counseling before, exactly do you mean by "intimacy"? Sometimes people use that word as a euphemism for sex. Sometimes they mean emotional closeness, support, nurturing.
Did your affair (seem to?) fill some of the needs you have, along either definition? Can you imagine living the rest of your life without? If the answer to the latter is "no"--be truthful--then you do need to push for change.
I concur with the person above who suggested your tearful confession was an attempt to get your wife to engage. That she hasn't is probably driving you crazy.
Let me tell you, I have been in a very similar situation with a seriously checked out spouse who will not--cannot--engage. It is fucking awful and profoundly, excruciatingly lonely. I think your affair was what Terry Real would call a "misery stabilizer" in his New Rules Of Marriage book, which was really helpful and eye opening to us.
I think you need to level with her. You are miserable and things need to change. Either you work together in counseling or, if she is unwilling, you need to split up. I categorically disagree with the notion that, because you have strayed, you somehow forfeit your right to advocate for change for the better in your marriage. If you have a history of asking clearly for changes in your marriage, and your spouse has been unwilling to engage at all, then it should be no surprise that those needs (a) still exist and (b) leave you profoundly susceptible to having them filled by someone else.
You can't make your wife do anything. You can't make her talk to you, show you concern or affection, or want to have sex with you. But these are all part of a healthy, loving marriage and it is totally reasonable to put your foot down and say, "we need to fix some things." If she absolutely won't, it is totally valid to leave.
Good luck. I know just how awful this situation is and how hard it is to dig out.
posted by Sublimity at 11:02 AM on December 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
Did your affair (seem to?) fill some of the needs you have, along either definition? Can you imagine living the rest of your life without? If the answer to the latter is "no"--be truthful--then you do need to push for change.
I concur with the person above who suggested your tearful confession was an attempt to get your wife to engage. That she hasn't is probably driving you crazy.
Let me tell you, I have been in a very similar situation with a seriously checked out spouse who will not--cannot--engage. It is fucking awful and profoundly, excruciatingly lonely. I think your affair was what Terry Real would call a "misery stabilizer" in his New Rules Of Marriage book, which was really helpful and eye opening to us.
I think you need to level with her. You are miserable and things need to change. Either you work together in counseling or, if she is unwilling, you need to split up. I categorically disagree with the notion that, because you have strayed, you somehow forfeit your right to advocate for change for the better in your marriage. If you have a history of asking clearly for changes in your marriage, and your spouse has been unwilling to engage at all, then it should be no surprise that those needs (a) still exist and (b) leave you profoundly susceptible to having them filled by someone else.
You can't make your wife do anything. You can't make her talk to you, show you concern or affection, or want to have sex with you. But these are all part of a healthy, loving marriage and it is totally reasonable to put your foot down and say, "we need to fix some things." If she absolutely won't, it is totally valid to leave.
Good luck. I know just how awful this situation is and how hard it is to dig out.
posted by Sublimity at 11:02 AM on December 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
Two thoughts.
Maybe she is punishing you by withholding even more intimacy.
Maybe trying for intimacy now just feels too risky for her specifically because of the affair. If it was hard for her before, it may be doubly so now.
Either way, I think you should take the lead and ask her.
posted by Vaike at 11:57 AM on December 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe she is punishing you by withholding even more intimacy.
Maybe trying for intimacy now just feels too risky for her specifically because of the affair. If it was hard for her before, it may be doubly so now.
Either way, I think you should take the lead and ask her.
posted by Vaike at 11:57 AM on December 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If she doesn't want to work on it, it might not be the sort of marriage you'd want to be in. If that's the case you need to be clear with her and yourself that those are your terms for an inhabitable marriage--intimacy, being able to talk about things. A counselor can help with that if she's willing.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:18 PM on December 12, 2012 [12 favorites]