I know he WANTS to behave...

October 24, 2012 8:18 AM

Help me solve the behavioural issues that have cropped up in my five and a half year old.

He is my partner's son from his first marriage, and I have been a part of his life since he was four. There is 50/50 shared custody with his mother doing a week by week thing. He is five and a half and just started kindergarten this september. He is an only child.

He is seeing a child therapist, not really because of his behaviour, but because he started telling his bio parents that they love each other and that they are getting back together. Since he has seen the therapist he seems to understand and hasn't said it since.


In general he is well behaved. He says please and thank you, he is happy and cracks jokes. He listens well for the most part, goes to bed without a fuss, plays well on his own as well as with others. He has been in day care for a long while so he is used to being around other kids. He has energy up the wazoo and gets majorly wound up, but he's five so that's probably normal. ha ha

However, since he has started school the following things have started happening:
1. He is on the "red light" most days, which means he has needed to be on time out. The reasons for time out vary from doing summersaults off the desk to not listening to the teacher to bothering other kids when they try to work. It is so frequent that the teacher has been communicating with us a lot about it, and we have even gotten calls home from school. The amount of time he spends on the red light is more than most of the other kids.
2. He isn't taking time outs seriously. Apparently he finds it funny when the teacher puts him on time out.
3. He's gotten sassier, more back talk etc. (I suspect this is normal though.)
4. Started lying more, especially saying "I don't know" when you know he knows. (Again, I suspect this is normal.)


Things we have tried/are in place:
1. If he gets on the red light at school he loses all access to technology (Netflix, PS3, etc) at home for the night. (he doesn't seem to mind this much)
2. If he gets on the green light five times then he gets a reward (ex. pizza dinner, glow in the dark bathtime, etc)
3. Increased consistency in discipline. He gets a warning and told that if he does it again he gets a time out. If he does it again, he gets a time out. (It rarely gets to the time out phase.)
4. All four parents (his father and me, his mother and her new partner) working together so that his discipline is the same at both households.
5. Have it explained to him that his behaviour is not okay, that he needs to behave better and try harder to listen at school.
6. Recognising and praising when he is behaving well and doing what he is supposed to be doing.


The biggest problem is that at home, with us, his behaviour is pretty good. We aren't having the discipline issues that the school is describing. We have a fairly high expectation for his behaviour at home, so it isn't like he gets a free pass when he is with us. We hardly ever have to give him a time out. He listens well and is frankly lovely to have around.

He's a smart kid and we all want him to do well, but his behaviour is doing him a major disservice. The last thing I'd want is for the teachers to write him off as a "bad kid". (Don't deny it, it totally happens, I've seen it.)

I love this kid. I consider him my kid in every way minus the actually giving birth type. I love him as my own and care about him a lot. Help me help him.

posted by PuppetMcSockerson to Human Relations (22 answers total)

Have you ruled out medical issues like ADD or ADHD? The behaviors manifested by ADD or ADHD are more problematic in a school setting than at home.
posted by HuronBob at 8:23 AM on October 24, 2012

Response by poster: I definitely haven't ruled it out, but his bio mom is strongly against any ADD/ADHD medication because apparently when she was younger her brother was put on it and it "turned him in to a zombie".
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 8:25 AM on October 24, 2012

Can you talk to the school about moving him to a different classroom? Some teachers and kids just don't click, and it can be a real problem in the early grades. My daughter had similar reports from one of her teachers until we got her switched to a different teacher, and the new teacher reassured us that she was a perfectly normal kid, just a little too creative and independent to mesh well with the previous teacher.

I'll add that since then, she has gotten a diagnosis of ADD, and has been put on medication for it. The meds are a huge help, and they have come a looooong way from even 5 or 6 years ago, so maybe if you go down that route, bio mom would be willing to at least try some of the new meds? You can always take him off them if you see undesired side effects.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:28 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]

Best answer: A diagnosis of ADD or ADHD does not mean that the family has to choose medication as the route to deal with it (right or wrong as that choice may be), but it would help in determining what types of interventions would be more successful than others.
posted by HuronBob at 8:31 AM on October 24, 2012 [6 favorites]

Have you talked to your partner's ex about this in detail too?

Is her approach to parenting similar to yours? Does she toe the party line? Is her life ok and not creating disruption in her son's life?

Also - to what extent have you or the therapist explored that his way of dealing with his parent's break up is to get attention or provoke specific behaviours from his carers or parents?
posted by MuffinMan at 8:33 AM on October 24, 2012

If he isn't taking his teacher seriously, have you considered sitting down with all parents (including partners etc), the teacher and the kid and letting him know that the teacher is in charge when he's at school?
posted by sciencegeek at 8:36 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Is he bored? A friend of mine has a son who sounds quite similar to your partner's son, and after testing and all sorts of things, they figured out that school was actually quite boring for him. Once they started to give him more challenging activities, he calmed down and now does very well in school!
posted by Happydaz at 8:37 AM on October 24, 2012 [13 favorites]

Best answer: He's quite young, but have you tried putting it to him (separately from any specific incident) that you've noticed he behaves better at home, but is getting in trouble at school, and why does he think that is? I'm not saying you should take his answer at face value, but he may tell you something useful that you can use to engage him in trying to solve the problem.
posted by crocomancer at 8:44 AM on October 24, 2012 [7 favorites]

Is he bored?

Also my question. I don't have kids, but I used to be a bored one in school. My "acting out" took the form of daydreaming, so it wasn't disruptive and wasn't brought up until a parent-teacher conference. I was bored because we were supposed to be learning to read but I already knew how, so I just looked out the window and made up my own stories.
posted by rtha at 8:53 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]

I'm not sure whether he's old enough to mentalize about this yet--maybe he is if he's a bright kid--but has anyone had a conversation with him about why he acts out in class or whether anything is bothering him in the classroom or at home? (Is he similar in daycare, or better behaved?). Perhaps his therapist could help you negotiate this conversation if you think it worthwhile.

In a more mundane and less psychological vein--and this probably isn't an option for this school cycle--have you guys considered switching him to some form of alternative elementary schooling that's a little more freeform and social (e.g., Montessori school), which might fit his personality better and let him thrive? I also wonder if there's something to Happydaz's remark that he might be dreadfully bored if he's ahead of the other children or the lesson plans. I was much the same way in early school, and though I was usually more of an internalizer (daydreaming, secretly reading ahead in class assignments, writing stories in my notebook), I could go from being super-sweet to kind-of cold and sassy if I thought something was beneath me.
posted by Keter at 8:59 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]

I was going to say the opposite of what others have said about him being bored: is it possible he's just not ready for kindergrarten? My youngest child started in a Young Fives this year, for kids who are technically old enough for kindergarten but not ready for it in one way or another. There's a lot of assorted kinds of acting out in that classroom, from kids who just don't have the emotional maturity to handle a school day yet. His class has 20 kids in it and 15 or 16 of them are boys. It's less rigidly structured than the kindergarten day, though there is a clear routine, and they do the same math & language art curriculum as the rest of the elementary school kids, but they do the preschool levels.

I think this is just another version of "does he need to be in another classroom, or school?" One of the criteria for ADHD, as I understand it, is that the behavior has to be seen in multiple settings--not just in school, not just as home. If his behavioral problems are limited to school (and it sounds like he is a treat otherwise, so yeah), then it makes sense to consider the possiblity that the school or the classroom is the problem in some way, and that it could be productive to move him to another setting if possible.
posted by not that girl at 9:05 AM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]

I doubt this is ADD or boredom. He's probably angry as hell about his family situation. Just because he told the therapist he "understands", that doesn't at all necessarily mean he's accepted the situation. Have the therapist and the teacher/school had any conversations about his behavior? Or, has his school behavior been discussed by his parents with the therapist? My thinking is that the therapist is where you have the best chance of making some inroads on this situation.
posted by Dansaman at 9:06 AM on October 24, 2012

Best answer: He's a smart kid ... but his behaviour is doing him a major disservice.

These are probably related. A smart 5 year old in kindergarten. Likely bored.

I may pick the term Rambunctious rather than ADHD. Cause he's 5.

What helped me was A LOT of sports. Sports attack the problem two ways:

One they drain excess energy.
Two they add structure and discipline.

There are sports for every season, though I recommend against baseball as it has a lot of waiting and standing around and isn't very tiring.
posted by French Fry at 9:07 AM on October 24, 2012 [11 favorites]

I too vote for bored.

You may want to go in for a conference, and one of the things I'd be interested in knowing is if the behavior occurs before his work is done, instead of his work being done, or after his work is done. I'll bet you ANYTHING that it's AFTER his work is done.

Does he read? If so, perhaps he can read his book while the other kids are finishing up, or he can do some cleaning in the room, or he can do a crossword puzzle. You get the idea, but the kid needs to be occupied.

I'd look to having him evaluated, not necessarily for ADD/ADHD, but gifted.

There are some tests on-line, check a few of them out. They're not all that great, but if he's blowing the roof off the scores, it's something to consider.

The problem with school is that slow kids feel left behind and bright kids are bored out of their skulls.

Work with the teacher to develop other strategies because Time-Out isn't cutting it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:23 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]

When is his birthday? There are two kids in my daughter's kindergarten class like this. Tyler and Ian. I've met both Tyler and Ian, and I really don't think they're bad or malicious kids, but they definitely are children who fill all the air space in the room; they just don't seem to totally grasp that recess behavior isn't Circle Time behavior, and that other people have the right to a space or an interaction that is both Tyler and Ian-free. They are both young for their grade, and I expect that this is mostly just an issue of growing up and maturing into a greater social understanding. Everything you're doing is going to help him with that, but it might just take time.

However, the bit about "thinking it's funny" when he goes into time-out makes me think of a 6-year-old I know, the son of a good friend, who has terrible anxiety problems. (In his case, they are related to a complexly traumatic early childhood.) He constantly pushes behavioral boundaries, particularly when he's unsure about a social or academic situation, because being in time-out removes him from the anxiety-producing situation and puts him into a comfortable, familiar place. (Not necessarily one he enjoys, but, well, I spent a lot of time in my 20s re-creating unpleasant situations because they were familiar, I don't see why a 6 year old can't do the same thing.) Week-by-week split custody can be hard on a kid; it's possible he's misbehaving because that's a situation he can control when he feels out of control of a lot of the rest of his life.
posted by KathrynT at 9:25 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]

Is he lonely? Does he have friends at school or any that he sees outside of school? Does he have any after school play activities?
posted by discopolo at 9:39 AM on October 24, 2012

Sticking my head in as a smart kid who got labeled by literally ONE teacher as a "bad kid" but survived. (What she called back-talk and "sass" was just . .talking to people? in my house.) I was thinking along the lines of what Ruthless Bunny said - I bet he's finishing his work (simply bc you are not saying that work completion is a part of the problem). He may need acceptable ways to occupy himself when he is done with his work. I constantly finished work ahead of other kids, and I was allowed to read. He may not want to read but may be content with age appropriate puzzles or other things to keep him from distracting other kids.
posted by Medieval Maven at 9:40 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]

Best answer: As a kindergarten teacher, I see these behaviors, a lot. There are many things to consider as to what is the root of the problem. Whether or not he has been in preschool, kindergarten is a huge change for someone who is only 5. Kindergarten has become very academic and is more like first grade was just a few years ago. He might be bored but he might also find the work (not necessarily the concepts) difficult and he is looking for any means to either get out of doing it or he needs to take a break and move around. If fine motor skills are an issue for him, the work of coloring, cutting, etc. are going to be a problem because so much of their work is based on using fine motor skills.

Another thought is that he is looking for attention and will take it any way he can get it- negative or positive attention. This is very common, especially for a child who is dealing with divorce and each parent has a partner. He is an only child and used to being the center of attention and now he isn't at home or at school.

You say that you (dad and partner) and mom and partner are consistent with expectations for his behavior but are you consistent within the 2 different households? Is the teacher consistent in her expectations because not all teachers are.

He finds time out funny and that may be because he's embarrassed or because he knows it pushes his teacher's buttons.

So, now that some possible causes are on the table, what to do about it? All 4 parents need to make sure they are on the same page and brainstorm for what does and doesn't work at home. The next step is to sit down with the teacher (I'm surprised she hasn't requested a conference yet) and compare notes between home and school for what works.

You also explore what is going on in the classroom when he acts out - is it on the rug, during transitions, etc. The teacher may need to keep a tally for awhile to see when these behaviors occur. I find that most of the problem behaviors occur during the less structured times such as lining up, in the cafeteria, etc. You all need to figure out what kinds of things he responds to because obviously time-out isn't working.

Maybe he can work towards something for showing good behavior (an extra book before bedtime) instead of always being faced with something negative. Start out with daily "rewards" and then slowly increase the time. Ideally this should be happening at school too but you can only control what you do at home.

I also find that kids respond well to choices because they have so little control over their lives. Simple choices like "would you like to walk in line with your friends or hold my hand as we walk down the hall" can solve lots of the issues at school and similar choices at home work wonders too.
posted by Flacka at 9:53 AM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]

You might seek some form of alternative schooling for him like free schooling or the Montessori method. I agree that it's likely he's bored. A more challenging curriculum or one where he's given more agency might benefit him.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:05 AM on October 24, 2012

Wouldn't you be acting up, as an adult, if you had to live in a different house every week? That's crazy stressful, I don't see how being a little kid would make it easier.

I know you can't do a lot about that, just a part of life sometimes, but you don't really acknowledge how hard that must be for him in your question. There are possibly actions and words you can make to ease his stress, it'd help find those if you kept in the back of your mind the most likely reason why this is happening.
posted by Dynex at 10:44 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]

> He has been in day care for a long while so he is used to being around other kids. He has energy up the wazoo and gets majorly wound up, but he's five so that's probably normal. ha ha However, since he has started school the following things have started happening: 1. He is on the "red light" most days, which means he has needed to be on time out. The reasons for time out vary from doing summersaults off the desk to not listening to the teacher to bothering other kids when they try to work. It is so frequent that the teacher has been communicating with us a lot about it, and we have even gotten calls home from school. The amount of time he spends on the red light is more than most of the other kids. 2. He isn't taking time outs seriously. Apparently he finds it funny when the teacher puts him on time out. 3. He's gotten sassier, more back talk etc. (I suspect this is normal though.) 4. Started lying more, especially saying "I don't know" when you know he knows. (Again, I suspect this is normal.)

While kindergarten certainly has greater expectations and structure, daycare still has set activities and rules to follow and kids are expected to respect the teachers, aides, and other kids -- when a child has maturity, boredom, or impulse control issues, there are plenty of opportunities to notice it. But he didn't have tons of behavioral issues like this in daycare, right?

So I wonder what the big difference is to him between daycare and kindergarten? What does kindergarten "mean" to him? Why is he courting negative attention at school and at home, even though he doesn't lack for positive attention? See if you can get him talking more about how the world looks according to his logic. Remember being a kid? Behaviors that adults recognize as "complicated" can just seem inconsistent and anxiety-causing.

Some examples off the top of my head:

* Maybe he thinks that at some point, he'll be considered too grownup to need two sets of parents to take care of him, so he's making sure that he's a full-time job for everyone.

* Or perhaps there's something specific where he feels a little behind in ability compared to some of the other kids, so he's just going to tank the whole kindergarten thing so that no-one notices the thing that he's "failing" at.

* Speaking of the other kids, is he making friends in kindergarten? Maybe he's getting mocked or picked on and so he's trying to get himself kicked out. Or conversely, maybe he's distinguished himself with the other kids as being the rebel who is brave enough to sass the teacher, so he's showing off to prove it.

* The lying/"I don't know" thing could be him wanting to assert control over his world in whatever way he can, because he feels unstable. Or it could be that he feels like he's not being believed/listened to about something, so he's withholding trust.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting at all that I can magically divine his motivations across the internet based on your question, I'm just throwing out some random speculation in case it sparks an idea of questions to ask him, his teachers, or the other co-parents!

It's really terrific to hear that both sets of parents are working together, he's a lucky kid. Good luck in helping him get through this bumpy phase.
posted by desuetude at 10:54 AM on October 24, 2012

Best answer: He actually sounds like a lovely bright kid. What can I say about strategies? Take him out, talk to him, ask him what he thinks, take him seriously as a person and respect him, let all your decisions stem from that baseline. Biddable people are much easier to deal with, and teachers who are not progressive have more problems with kids who can actually think for themselves.

Talk to him, trust your judgement, trust his individuality, talk to his mother, if you really love him as you say you do, that will inform what you do next. There are some characteristics which are difficult to deal with that are really worth nurturing in kids - stubbornness, sticking to a principle, lack of hypocrisy etc.

Please note, I believe discipline and clear boundaries are really important in raising children. Sometimes though, institutions trample on the autonomy of young people, and in these cases young people need an adult to have their back. I'm posting because you say you really love this kid, and in that case, be confident that such a caring attitude, plus a willingness to listen to all involved, may lead you to the best response.
posted by glasseyes at 11:53 PM on October 24, 2012