My honey has money, and I don't, it's kinda driving me buggy. Help?
July 6, 2012 4:08 PM Subscribe
This is going to sound like I'm complaining, but I'm not. I just want to find a way to reset my way of thinking. Hope me?
I've been with my guy for about six months. We're handfasted and our wedding date is set for Spring of next year. That being said, we're living together and there are some things I just need to get over if we're gonna make a go of this.
Here's the main thing. My guy is from a very upper middle class background. He's an only child (well, he has stepsibs, but they came along later). He want to a private school his entire school career. He's been gainfully employed most of his adult life. He has no children, and has been single (as in not married) all of his adult life. We're both in our forties. He's never been in debt, and he's always had money in the bank.
Anyway, I come from an impoverished family. I'm the oldest of five. I wore hand-me-downs from my grandma. I spent many years as a single mom whose income was just high enough to not qualify for any aid and too low to actually make a living. My bipolar keep me from keeping a real job for a long time - but that's just icing on the cake. I had credit card problems for a long time until I got them under control. I've never really had what you would call a savings.
So you can imagine that we have a few differences when it comes to spending and saving money. He has to have the latest and greatest. Even though he has a movie on DVD, he's gotta buy the Bluray, and if it comes out in 3D, he's gotta have that too. Why? He already has it. Now he has three copies of the same thing... It drives me insane. I don't get it. It's the same movie, that's just wasting money. I can't even conceive of the concept of two TVs in a house, let alone three. THREE? Only two of us live here, what do we need three TVs for?
And decorations? What do we need these for? If it doesn't serve a function, then it better not be wasting space in my house. I mean, I like pretty, I make pretty things (I'm crafty that way), but that pretty thing on the shelf or wall had better be telling time, holding pencils, collecting coins, or something! Otherwise it's taking up valuable real estate and catching dust. Yet he has a closet full of pretty things (mostly nerdy figurines) which I understand will fill up bookshelf after bookshelf once we move into our new place. I know I'll just look at those and think, "What a waste of space" as I do with the few he has displayed now.
Let's talk about eating out. For me, eating out is what one does on special occasions, and my idea of eating out used to be McDonald's or if we had the dough, Denny's. But he thinks nothing of dropping $50 for dinner... for two people! First time that happened, I nearly had a stroke. And we eat out sometimes two or three times a week. I'm a good cook. He knows this. He likes my cooking. He has no complaints about my cooking. He just likes to eat out. Before we met, he actually had no food in his kitchen and his dishes were packed in a box, so he's cut back on the eating out. However, I've eaten out more often in the six months since I've met him than I have my entire life. O.o
Honestly, it's his money. I'm trying so hard to not tell him what to do with his money, but it makes me cringe to see things on the shelf... just sitting there... doing nothing. They don't even offer entertainment like reading or play. What a waste (and no, I hardly ever have artsy pictures on the wall for the same reason). And I can't help but look at the prices on the menus when we go out to eat and think, "We could save so much money eating at home." And if he wants a TV in every room, who am I to tell him no? He's the one making most of the money.
But how can I stop cringing every time he orders another doohickey to put on the shelf? How can I stop from feeling guilty whenever we go out to eat because I know I can save us so much money by cooking at home? Has anyone else ever been in this situation? What did you do?
Some notes: We're both in our forties. My kids are grown and out of the house. Because of my bipolar and physical difficulties, he will most likely always make more money than I do. He knows this, and says he's okay with it.
I've been with my guy for about six months. We're handfasted and our wedding date is set for Spring of next year. That being said, we're living together and there are some things I just need to get over if we're gonna make a go of this.
Here's the main thing. My guy is from a very upper middle class background. He's an only child (well, he has stepsibs, but they came along later). He want to a private school his entire school career. He's been gainfully employed most of his adult life. He has no children, and has been single (as in not married) all of his adult life. We're both in our forties. He's never been in debt, and he's always had money in the bank.
Anyway, I come from an impoverished family. I'm the oldest of five. I wore hand-me-downs from my grandma. I spent many years as a single mom whose income was just high enough to not qualify for any aid and too low to actually make a living. My bipolar keep me from keeping a real job for a long time - but that's just icing on the cake. I had credit card problems for a long time until I got them under control. I've never really had what you would call a savings.
So you can imagine that we have a few differences when it comes to spending and saving money. He has to have the latest and greatest. Even though he has a movie on DVD, he's gotta buy the Bluray, and if it comes out in 3D, he's gotta have that too. Why? He already has it. Now he has three copies of the same thing... It drives me insane. I don't get it. It's the same movie, that's just wasting money. I can't even conceive of the concept of two TVs in a house, let alone three. THREE? Only two of us live here, what do we need three TVs for?
And decorations? What do we need these for? If it doesn't serve a function, then it better not be wasting space in my house. I mean, I like pretty, I make pretty things (I'm crafty that way), but that pretty thing on the shelf or wall had better be telling time, holding pencils, collecting coins, or something! Otherwise it's taking up valuable real estate and catching dust. Yet he has a closet full of pretty things (mostly nerdy figurines) which I understand will fill up bookshelf after bookshelf once we move into our new place. I know I'll just look at those and think, "What a waste of space" as I do with the few he has displayed now.
Let's talk about eating out. For me, eating out is what one does on special occasions, and my idea of eating out used to be McDonald's or if we had the dough, Denny's. But he thinks nothing of dropping $50 for dinner... for two people! First time that happened, I nearly had a stroke. And we eat out sometimes two or three times a week. I'm a good cook. He knows this. He likes my cooking. He has no complaints about my cooking. He just likes to eat out. Before we met, he actually had no food in his kitchen and his dishes were packed in a box, so he's cut back on the eating out. However, I've eaten out more often in the six months since I've met him than I have my entire life. O.o
Honestly, it's his money. I'm trying so hard to not tell him what to do with his money, but it makes me cringe to see things on the shelf... just sitting there... doing nothing. They don't even offer entertainment like reading or play. What a waste (and no, I hardly ever have artsy pictures on the wall for the same reason). And I can't help but look at the prices on the menus when we go out to eat and think, "We could save so much money eating at home." And if he wants a TV in every room, who am I to tell him no? He's the one making most of the money.
But how can I stop cringing every time he orders another doohickey to put on the shelf? How can I stop from feeling guilty whenever we go out to eat because I know I can save us so much money by cooking at home? Has anyone else ever been in this situation? What did you do?
Some notes: We're both in our forties. My kids are grown and out of the house. Because of my bipolar and physical difficulties, he will most likely always make more money than I do. He knows this, and says he's okay with it.
Best answer: The reason you're so antsy is because it may be HIS money, but it is about to be YOUR money (and I mean "your" money as a joint thing, like "yours AND his money").
I'd sit down and have a long, long talk with him about how you each view money, and how his spending is wigging you out -- not because you know that you can't afford it, but because you just grew up with these patterns. And ask him to help work WITH you on that. If you go to him where it's just about the money, he'll be all, "huh? We have money and we're fine," but if you go to him where it's about how it's how you are EMOTIONALLY with money, that may be different.
But ideally you both should bend a little bit - he maybe can stop eating out SO much because it's just freaking you out, but you could stand to accept that you DESERVE to spend things on yourself too. Maybe the both of you can adopt the financial idea a good friend taught me - whenever you each get money, your paycheck or his paycheck, or whatever, put a chunk of it towards something called the "We're Worth It Account." That is money that you can use to play with -- eat out, get fancy sheets, whatever. Because you ARE worth it, and you personally need to start realizing that. (Honestly, the "I'm Worth It Account" helped me get past some of the same "why am I eating out when I could eat at home cheaper" thinking I had for a while myself.)
But if you and he are going to get married, it isn't just going to be HIS money, it's going to be BOTH OF YOUR money, and if you haven't had a talk about how you both are going to relate to that, and how you both feel about that, this is the time to start. Try the "We're Worth It" account, maybe, and see how that goes.
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:18 PM on July 6, 2012 [9 favorites]
I'd sit down and have a long, long talk with him about how you each view money, and how his spending is wigging you out -- not because you know that you can't afford it, but because you just grew up with these patterns. And ask him to help work WITH you on that. If you go to him where it's just about the money, he'll be all, "huh? We have money and we're fine," but if you go to him where it's about how it's how you are EMOTIONALLY with money, that may be different.
But ideally you both should bend a little bit - he maybe can stop eating out SO much because it's just freaking you out, but you could stand to accept that you DESERVE to spend things on yourself too. Maybe the both of you can adopt the financial idea a good friend taught me - whenever you each get money, your paycheck or his paycheck, or whatever, put a chunk of it towards something called the "We're Worth It Account." That is money that you can use to play with -- eat out, get fancy sheets, whatever. Because you ARE worth it, and you personally need to start realizing that. (Honestly, the "I'm Worth It Account" helped me get past some of the same "why am I eating out when I could eat at home cheaper" thinking I had for a while myself.)
But if you and he are going to get married, it isn't just going to be HIS money, it's going to be BOTH OF YOUR money, and if you haven't had a talk about how you both are going to relate to that, and how you both feel about that, this is the time to start. Try the "We're Worth It" account, maybe, and see how that goes.
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:18 PM on July 6, 2012 [9 favorites]
Money matters can be (and often are) a major cornerstone of many relationships. I was in your place with my last partner, and I have to say that the differences between our views on how to spend and save definitely contributed to the demise of the relationship as those views were strongly interrelated to other facets of who we are as people.
I think that the two of you need to have an extremely honest and forthright discussion about how money is going to be handled in your marriage because right now it sounds like you two are on such disparate planes of existence that things could go sour very quickly when the things you're relating now become even more aggravating. You have very different values -- unless you find a way to align them, either by yourselves or with a counselor, you may find yourselves incompatible with one another. The good thing is that you're not married yet. Now is the time to figure this stuff out, and it sounds like you're a really thoughtful, intelligent person, so I think you'll be able to do it.
posted by Hello Darling at 4:21 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think that the two of you need to have an extremely honest and forthright discussion about how money is going to be handled in your marriage because right now it sounds like you two are on such disparate planes of existence that things could go sour very quickly when the things you're relating now become even more aggravating. You have very different values -- unless you find a way to align them, either by yourselves or with a counselor, you may find yourselves incompatible with one another. The good thing is that you're not married yet. Now is the time to figure this stuff out, and it sounds like you're a really thoughtful, intelligent person, so I think you'll be able to do it.
posted by Hello Darling at 4:21 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know if this will help you to consider this in a different way, but reading it as an outsider I think it's actually not one issue, but two, which you have (understandably, because they're sort of related) conflated.
One is spending money on things, like dinner out, that you could never do before. The other is all the extra stuff.
Personally I think the spending part will be an adjustment at first, but over time you will, if not get used to it, at least come to see that it can be done without any harm. (Assuming he really does make enough to spend this much responsibly, and other basic needs like insurance, etc, aren't being neglected.) The accumulation of stuff would be much harder to deal with, for me. But you might be different. So I'd suggest asking yourself whether you would mind the stuff so much if he was getting it all for free? Or, would you mind the spending so much if it was on something you really valued, not just dinner that you could make at home anyway, or trinkets, but maybe an amazing trip you'd remember forever? Or a really good quality and useful purchase, like a car?
I don't know how exactly to resolve these differences, but I think breaking them into smaller parts to see what you're truly concerned about or annoyed with will help.
(On preview - what cairdeas said while I was typing very slowly.)
posted by DestinationUnknown at 4:28 PM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
One is spending money on things, like dinner out, that you could never do before. The other is all the extra stuff.
Personally I think the spending part will be an adjustment at first, but over time you will, if not get used to it, at least come to see that it can be done without any harm. (Assuming he really does make enough to spend this much responsibly, and other basic needs like insurance, etc, aren't being neglected.) The accumulation of stuff would be much harder to deal with, for me. But you might be different. So I'd suggest asking yourself whether you would mind the stuff so much if he was getting it all for free? Or, would you mind the spending so much if it was on something you really valued, not just dinner that you could make at home anyway, or trinkets, but maybe an amazing trip you'd remember forever? Or a really good quality and useful purchase, like a car?
I don't know how exactly to resolve these differences, but I think breaking them into smaller parts to see what you're truly concerned about or annoyed with will help.
(On preview - what cairdeas said while I was typing very slowly.)
posted by DestinationUnknown at 4:28 PM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
It seems to me that you two need to have an honest discussion about your shared finances and make a budget -- not to save money specifically, but to come to a place where you both feel comfortable with, and are aware of, where your money is going. It seems to me that his spending habits probably are making you nervous, because you're not accustomed to being in a place where $50 for dinner is no big deal, and there is enough discretionary income for pleasure spending -- and as far as many people are concerned (myself among them), art for one's house is certainly something that brings a great deal of pleasure, and there is nothing wrong with spending your money on it. I think you might feel better if you knew how much was coming in, how much you guys are saving, what your nest egg looks like, how much you've got for retirement, etc. You guys need to talk about your greater financial picture.
For what it's worth, from my perspective, $50 for dinner is pretty reasonable. I grew up somewhat like your fiance, and I have a good paying job. I also am lucky that I have money in the bank; if my SO told me he was incredulous about my paying $50 for dinner, I would be gobsmacked. Does he even know you feel like this? Because it may not even occur to him that what he's doing is something that you think is excessive, you know?
Talk it out.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 4:31 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
For what it's worth, from my perspective, $50 for dinner is pretty reasonable. I grew up somewhat like your fiance, and I have a good paying job. I also am lucky that I have money in the bank; if my SO told me he was incredulous about my paying $50 for dinner, I would be gobsmacked. Does he even know you feel like this? Because it may not even occur to him that what he's doing is something that you think is excessive, you know?
Talk it out.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 4:31 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
I have a couple friends; they have a joint account that each of them directs a chunk of their pay to, direct deposit, and bills and the mortgage get paid for from it. The rest of their pay check is theirs do spend as each of them wish. It help keep my friend from having a heart attack every time her husband drops a couple hundred bucks on a new guitar.
Maybe something like that could work for y'all? So that you're both chipping in for the stuff you need, but other than that you get to run your money the way you want so you feel safe with it.
Because otherwise --- this is the deep shit, you know? And you can't go back and live each other's lives, but those instincts each of you have are in the bone. But maybe you can live with it, if you know for sure the bills are getting paid and the rest is out of sight for you. Because you're not going to change him at this point and you're going to keel over someday clutching a credit card bill with the words "limited edition" next to $300 otherwise.
posted by Diablevert at 4:32 PM on July 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Maybe something like that could work for y'all? So that you're both chipping in for the stuff you need, but other than that you get to run your money the way you want so you feel safe with it.
Because otherwise --- this is the deep shit, you know? And you can't go back and live each other's lives, but those instincts each of you have are in the bone. But maybe you can live with it, if you know for sure the bills are getting paid and the rest is out of sight for you. Because you're not going to change him at this point and you're going to keel over someday clutching a credit card bill with the words "limited edition" next to $300 otherwise.
posted by Diablevert at 4:32 PM on July 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Best answer: It's really not just his money! Once you are married it will be yours too, or at least hopefully he will see it that way. It sounds like he wants you to live a good life and give you things you never had before.
Believe me, I came from a poor background as well and it has taken me a long time to get comfortable with buying myself nice things. I still have guilt over owning more than one pair of pants! The key, for me, was making a budget with my spouse and agreeing on how much is acceptable for you guys to spend on anything outside of the necessities like housing, groceries, utilities, etc. Your budget also needs to include some plan for saving money each month so that you aren't blowing every extra penny on a million televisions and DVDs.
Another idea: It might make you feel better if you both allotted each other a little spending money each month so that he can buy the junk you think is wasteful and dumb without making you feel like it's really affecting YOU. And then, you can spend (or save!) your own spending money however you want. Then you can roll your eyes at his silly purchases and feel better about your own choices.
But honestly? If the important bills are paid and you're regularly contributing to savings, it's okay to buy yourself stupid things or to splurge on a few meals here and there. And it should be okay for your (future) husband to do these things too. You do NOT need to put every single extra penny in savings; in fact, what is the point in saving if you are never going to spend the money? You might feel more comfortable with this idea once you sit down and hammer out some plans for the budget, because it will help you realize that you really are really in fine financial shape and that spending a little fun money isn't going to ruin that. Numbers don't lie.
posted by joan_holloway at 4:33 PM on July 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Believe me, I came from a poor background as well and it has taken me a long time to get comfortable with buying myself nice things. I still have guilt over owning more than one pair of pants! The key, for me, was making a budget with my spouse and agreeing on how much is acceptable for you guys to spend on anything outside of the necessities like housing, groceries, utilities, etc. Your budget also needs to include some plan for saving money each month so that you aren't blowing every extra penny on a million televisions and DVDs.
Another idea: It might make you feel better if you both allotted each other a little spending money each month so that he can buy the junk you think is wasteful and dumb without making you feel like it's really affecting YOU. And then, you can spend (or save!) your own spending money however you want. Then you can roll your eyes at his silly purchases and feel better about your own choices.
But honestly? If the important bills are paid and you're regularly contributing to savings, it's okay to buy yourself stupid things or to splurge on a few meals here and there. And it should be okay for your (future) husband to do these things too. You do NOT need to put every single extra penny in savings; in fact, what is the point in saving if you are never going to spend the money? You might feel more comfortable with this idea once you sit down and hammer out some plans for the budget, because it will help you realize that you really are really in fine financial shape and that spending a little fun money isn't going to ruin that. Numbers don't lie.
posted by joan_holloway at 4:33 PM on July 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Don't focus on the money you and him spend together. Focus on your financial worth as a couple. What assets do you have? Do you have enough savings for retirement? Are you debt free? Are you achieving your other financial goals (home ownership, investments)? If the answer to all those questions is yes, then, face it, you're one of the lucky household who has spending money.
I would add that it also sounds to me like your focus on his spending might be a coping mechanism on your part. I don't know what for. I tend to focus on a partner's habits when I want to control the relationship somehow. It's usually linked to my low self-esteem and my problems allowing people to get close to me. By focusing on "their annoying habits", I introduce distance in the relationship. Just some food for thought: Are you focusing on this spending issue so that you don't have to face some other fear?
posted by Milau at 4:40 PM on July 6, 2012
I would add that it also sounds to me like your focus on his spending might be a coping mechanism on your part. I don't know what for. I tend to focus on a partner's habits when I want to control the relationship somehow. It's usually linked to my low self-esteem and my problems allowing people to get close to me. By focusing on "their annoying habits", I introduce distance in the relationship. Just some food for thought: Are you focusing on this spending issue so that you don't have to face some other fear?
posted by Milau at 4:40 PM on July 6, 2012
Buying a painting or a photograph really isn't some kind of bizarre spendthriftery that's going to land you both in the poorhouse. Similarly, $25 per person for dinner out isn't crazy spendthriftery when you've got the money.
That said, yeah, you guys need to figure out ground rules that work for both of you, from sharing space and clutter (which it seems you two define quite differently) and what feels to you like reasonable savings and spending targets (per month, per week, per year, for retirement, whatever).
Let me suggest meeting with a fee-only financial planner to discuss rough targets in terms of your budget and savings goals. It should help both of you to get an uninvolved professional's perspective.
It's also true that not every couple has to have joint finances.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:53 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
That said, yeah, you guys need to figure out ground rules that work for both of you, from sharing space and clutter (which it seems you two define quite differently) and what feels to you like reasonable savings and spending targets (per month, per week, per year, for retirement, whatever).
Let me suggest meeting with a fee-only financial planner to discuss rough targets in terms of your budget and savings goals. It should help both of you to get an uninvolved professional's perspective.
It's also true that not every couple has to have joint finances.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:53 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hmmm. Let me correct an assumption here. I so don't think that his spending is going to send us to the poorhouse. I figure that if he's made it this far without ending up in the poorhouse, then he's not going to put himself there now. Though I have to admit that it crossed my mind when he dropped over $4K on a bed -- a BED!!! I've never paid more than $100 for a bed in my entire life! Anyway, he bought the bed because I mentioned I've always wanted a Sleep Number bed. I will admit that it's a really nice bed though...
Anyway, he's told me that he's got the money in the bank, and I know that his bills are always paid. We're in the process of buying a house right now -- well, he is, I'm just along for the ride. This means he's not being nearly as free with his money because he's got closing costs, down payment, etc... to worry about, not to mention furnishing the place (we've been furniture window shopping lately and that's been fun). But we still eat out A LOT.
I just don't want to be a nag about it, and I want to stop feeling guilty whenever he spends money on me, or us. Y'all are right about the decorations, I guess it's just something I have to get over.
posted by patheral at 5:04 PM on July 6, 2012
Anyway, he's told me that he's got the money in the bank, and I know that his bills are always paid. We're in the process of buying a house right now -- well, he is, I'm just along for the ride. This means he's not being nearly as free with his money because he's got closing costs, down payment, etc... to worry about, not to mention furnishing the place (we've been furniture window shopping lately and that's been fun). But we still eat out A LOT.
I just don't want to be a nag about it, and I want to stop feeling guilty whenever he spends money on me, or us. Y'all are right about the decorations, I guess it's just something I have to get over.
posted by patheral at 5:04 PM on July 6, 2012
Especially if you plan to join up your finances, I also would suggest a budget - and not so much the "we need to be able to pay the rent next month" kind of budget, but the "envelope" kind of budget. You come up with figures for each "envelope": this month, we can spend up to $400 on going out to dinner, $800 on groceries, $150 on clothes, etc etc etc - and you also make "envelopes" for "His fun money" and "Hers fun money" and "Our fun money" (or whatever makes sense to your lifestyle). You can either actually physically have envelopes with actual physical cash or you can do it virtually with a spreadsheet or a program like You Need A Budget.
That way, when he drops $50 on a collectible blu-ray set, it's ok because you know it's not taking away from something important. You've planned for the expense and decided that's an okay amount to frivol. There's no stress or worry. Your obligations are covered, you set aside some savings and the rest is discretionary - and since you've fine tuned that discretionary category a bit, you don't have to fret about what he's spending (or you're spending, for that matter). It's very freeing.
posted by agentmitten at 5:04 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
That way, when he drops $50 on a collectible blu-ray set, it's ok because you know it's not taking away from something important. You've planned for the expense and decided that's an okay amount to frivol. There's no stress or worry. Your obligations are covered, you set aside some savings and the rest is discretionary - and since you've fine tuned that discretionary category a bit, you don't have to fret about what he's spending (or you're spending, for that matter). It's very freeing.
posted by agentmitten at 5:04 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Sort of; I'm hoping that you can have a long talk with him and work out a way for him to help you get over this.
And I understand that you intellectually get that he won't drive you to the poorhouse, but your emotional self may be thinking something different because it's what you grew up with, you know? You get it in your head, but you don't quite get it in your gut yet, and that's valid.
He can help you with that, but you need to have a long honest talk about how you each grew up FEELING about money, is the thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:06 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
And I understand that you intellectually get that he won't drive you to the poorhouse, but your emotional self may be thinking something different because it's what you grew up with, you know? You get it in your head, but you don't quite get it in your gut yet, and that's valid.
He can help you with that, but you need to have a long honest talk about how you each grew up FEELING about money, is the thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:06 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
But how can I stop cringing every time he orders another doohickey to put on the shelf?
Ask yourself what else is going to go on those shelves? If you want to answer "pretty things I made myself!" what makes YOUR pretty things better than someone else's pretty things? That's egotistical. "Valuable real estate"? Unless you have such a tiny, tiny house that every INCH counts, you're being unreasonable. Divide up the shelves. He gets a certain amount of shelves/wallspace, you get a certain amount. He does what he wants with his and you do what you want with yours. End of story.
How can I stop from feeling guilty whenever we go out to eat because I know I can save us so much money by cooking at home?
People often overestimate how much money they "save" eating at home. You need to not only calculate the cost of ingredients but also time - time shopping for ingredients, time preparing the dish, and time cleaning up. What about spices? They can be quite expensive, but necessary to make a meal work....and might expire before you make that meal again. I've honestly thought making a meal at home would be cheaper.... until I hit the spice section of the store and realized, nope.
You might be willing to "spend" time to "save" money, but your spouse might be different, preferring to "spend" money to "save" time. Furthermore, no offense to you, but unless you're a professional chef you might not be at the level he wants (again, no offense to you - most people are not professional chefs). There's no way in hell he's going to actually say this to you, either. My mom considers herself a great cook, but I cannot stand her food. I don't tell her this - I merely make a lot of plans to eat out with friends when I'm in the area.
Has anyone else ever been in this situation? What did you do?
I've been in worse situations - I've been with someone who had to have the newest gadgets, but couldn't actually afford them, leaving me to shoulder the financial brunt of the relationship. I've also been with someone whose parents paid for everything and gave him a huge allowance - so he was never in debt and could also buy the latest gadgets - but STILL expected me to shoulder the financial aspects of the relationship (paying for both our dates, outings, etc) because, in his words, I was the only one with a job.
So all in all, the fact that he has a job and knows how to not financially cripple himself while chasing fads is a good thing.
So get a joint account and both of you deposit money into that account for bills and stuff. Remaining money is personal, to be spent how each spouse sees fit. Divide the house space - perhaps have your own study free of "clutter".
And stop resenting your husband's money - I know you're not doing it consciously, but you definitely come across as, "how can I change when my way is so clearly much, much better?" Your way is not better, it was just suited to your financial straights to the time. Your financial situation is now different, you can change.
Honestly, I don't have chairs in my apartment because I think they're unnecessary. Do you? Different strokes for different folks.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 5:07 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ask yourself what else is going to go on those shelves? If you want to answer "pretty things I made myself!" what makes YOUR pretty things better than someone else's pretty things? That's egotistical. "Valuable real estate"? Unless you have such a tiny, tiny house that every INCH counts, you're being unreasonable. Divide up the shelves. He gets a certain amount of shelves/wallspace, you get a certain amount. He does what he wants with his and you do what you want with yours. End of story.
How can I stop from feeling guilty whenever we go out to eat because I know I can save us so much money by cooking at home?
People often overestimate how much money they "save" eating at home. You need to not only calculate the cost of ingredients but also time - time shopping for ingredients, time preparing the dish, and time cleaning up. What about spices? They can be quite expensive, but necessary to make a meal work....and might expire before you make that meal again. I've honestly thought making a meal at home would be cheaper.... until I hit the spice section of the store and realized, nope.
You might be willing to "spend" time to "save" money, but your spouse might be different, preferring to "spend" money to "save" time. Furthermore, no offense to you, but unless you're a professional chef you might not be at the level he wants (again, no offense to you - most people are not professional chefs). There's no way in hell he's going to actually say this to you, either. My mom considers herself a great cook, but I cannot stand her food. I don't tell her this - I merely make a lot of plans to eat out with friends when I'm in the area.
Has anyone else ever been in this situation? What did you do?
I've been in worse situations - I've been with someone who had to have the newest gadgets, but couldn't actually afford them, leaving me to shoulder the financial brunt of the relationship. I've also been with someone whose parents paid for everything and gave him a huge allowance - so he was never in debt and could also buy the latest gadgets - but STILL expected me to shoulder the financial aspects of the relationship (paying for both our dates, outings, etc) because, in his words, I was the only one with a job.
So all in all, the fact that he has a job and knows how to not financially cripple himself while chasing fads is a good thing.
So get a joint account and both of you deposit money into that account for bills and stuff. Remaining money is personal, to be spent how each spouse sees fit. Divide the house space - perhaps have your own study free of "clutter".
And stop resenting your husband's money - I know you're not doing it consciously, but you definitely come across as, "how can I change when my way is so clearly much, much better?" Your way is not better, it was just suited to your financial straights to the time. Your financial situation is now different, you can change.
Honestly, I don't have chairs in my apartment because I think they're unnecessary. Do you? Different strokes for different folks.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 5:07 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
With great respect and kindness, your inner calibration is way off. Your bf buys a special bed you've always wanted, and you judge him for spending that money, money he can afford without busting the budget? That's not frugality, that's neurosis. Also your anti-knickknack crusade is making you sound like Savonarola.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:11 PM on July 6, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:11 PM on July 6, 2012 [10 favorites]
Best answer: Separate your thoughts about how money should be used from your background. That is just stereotyping yourself and him and it creates absolutes.
I grew up poor. Ate government cheese, food stamps... the whole lot.
Today? I will throw $400 ate a nice dinner at the drop of a hat.
My wife is the opposite in both respects.
You need to examine why you feel the way you feel TODAY. You can't blame your past, that makes your position immovable because you're not about to get a new past. This needs to be discussed in detail, NOW, or you are one a short ride to divorce town.
This is one of the big 3 (with kids and religion) that you simply must get straight before you sign that license.
posted by French Fry at 5:16 PM on July 6, 2012 [8 favorites]
I grew up poor. Ate government cheese, food stamps... the whole lot.
Today? I will throw $400 ate a nice dinner at the drop of a hat.
My wife is the opposite in both respects.
You need to examine why you feel the way you feel TODAY. You can't blame your past, that makes your position immovable because you're not about to get a new past. This needs to be discussed in detail, NOW, or you are one a short ride to divorce town.
This is one of the big 3 (with kids and religion) that you simply must get straight before you sign that license.
posted by French Fry at 5:16 PM on July 6, 2012 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Sidhedevil, that's kind of the point. I'm trying not to be judgmental, but I don't know how to not be shocked by spending more on a bed than I've ever have on a car...
posted by patheral at 5:17 PM on July 6, 2012
posted by patheral at 5:17 PM on July 6, 2012
Best answer: I'm trying not to be judgmental, but I don't know how to not be shocked by spending more on a bed than I've ever have on a car...
Well I think part of this is having your outside voice match your inside voice about this. I totally get the concern. I have a version of it myself. Spending money makes me itch and watching other people spend money they don't need to spend makes me itch. And part of this is just me being super judgey about what "need" means in this circumstance, because at some level my ideal scenario is about me living in a cashless economy where we all take in each other's washing and give to everyone according to their needs and bla bla. But instead, I live in America and I should get better at managing that conflict.
So, I get that you're saying you don't want to be judgey but your question, as read by me, reads as not only incredibly judgey but actually sort of enjoying the OMG aspect of it. I am happy for you and your guy and your impending marriage, but the amount of compromising of your own values seems problematic here and what I would work on. For example: if you don't want three tvs you're allowed to say "we have enough tvs" and not let him be able to overrule you because he can afford them. There are more metrics to whether something is "worth it" than whether it fits in the budget. You can think about having other sorts of "budgets" like just a "how much time do we spend shopping budget or a "how much decoration do we put in the house" budget and each of you gets to have a say in how those things go.
I get that at some level you're just being handwavey about how weird this all is for you [and exciting and good at the same time] but the subtext that I read--as someone who is super tight with money even though I (embarassingly, to me) have more than enough of it--is that
1. As long as you guys can "afford" something, then it's automatically okay to have (his value?)
2. Saving is always better than spending (your value?)
You're going to have to appreciate that things have value other than their keep-you-alive value. That some people enjoy shopping as an activity and in a general sense there is nothing wrong with that. That some people spend money on art because they like the way it looks and there's nothing wrong with that. That the aescetic aesthetic is its own form of preference once you are at the point where it is a chosen look and not a necessary one. I know it's hard and I personally are not very good at it, but I prefer trying to work on finding more commonalities with more people as I get older than finding ways to judge them.
So, back to my original point I think I'd try to go through the question you asked and find a way to rewrite it, using the same facts, and dial the hyperbole down a few notches. You love this guy. You are marrying this guy. If you are truly marrying someone who makes you insane, feel like you're going to have a stroke, who makes you cringe and who you think is wasteful, you either have a problem with the way you choose mates or the way you talk about them. Find ways to rephrase and reconceptualize your situation so that it's more charitable to both you and your man.
posted by jessamyn at 5:54 PM on July 6, 2012 [21 favorites]
Well I think part of this is having your outside voice match your inside voice about this. I totally get the concern. I have a version of it myself. Spending money makes me itch and watching other people spend money they don't need to spend makes me itch. And part of this is just me being super judgey about what "need" means in this circumstance, because at some level my ideal scenario is about me living in a cashless economy where we all take in each other's washing and give to everyone according to their needs and bla bla. But instead, I live in America and I should get better at managing that conflict.
So, I get that you're saying you don't want to be judgey but your question, as read by me, reads as not only incredibly judgey but actually sort of enjoying the OMG aspect of it. I am happy for you and your guy and your impending marriage, but the amount of compromising of your own values seems problematic here and what I would work on. For example: if you don't want three tvs you're allowed to say "we have enough tvs" and not let him be able to overrule you because he can afford them. There are more metrics to whether something is "worth it" than whether it fits in the budget. You can think about having other sorts of "budgets" like just a "how much time do we spend shopping budget or a "how much decoration do we put in the house" budget and each of you gets to have a say in how those things go.
I get that at some level you're just being handwavey about how weird this all is for you [and exciting and good at the same time] but the subtext that I read--as someone who is super tight with money even though I (embarassingly, to me) have more than enough of it--is that
1. As long as you guys can "afford" something, then it's automatically okay to have (his value?)
2. Saving is always better than spending (your value?)
You're going to have to appreciate that things have value other than their keep-you-alive value. That some people enjoy shopping as an activity and in a general sense there is nothing wrong with that. That some people spend money on art because they like the way it looks and there's nothing wrong with that. That the aescetic aesthetic is its own form of preference once you are at the point where it is a chosen look and not a necessary one. I know it's hard and I personally are not very good at it, but I prefer trying to work on finding more commonalities with more people as I get older than finding ways to judge them.
So, back to my original point I think I'd try to go through the question you asked and find a way to rewrite it, using the same facts, and dial the hyperbole down a few notches. You love this guy. You are marrying this guy. If you are truly marrying someone who makes you insane, feel like you're going to have a stroke, who makes you cringe and who you think is wasteful, you either have a problem with the way you choose mates or the way you talk about them. Find ways to rephrase and reconceptualize your situation so that it's more charitable to both you and your man.
posted by jessamyn at 5:54 PM on July 6, 2012 [21 favorites]
Would it make you feel less guilty if you and your man could agree to put aside a certain amount of money to give to worthy local charities? Like... "Okay, we're spending $50 on dinner for ourselves, but we're also going to donate $50 to the local food bank. Okay, he bought $50 worth of new movies, but we gave $50 to the after-school program for at-risk kids."
Also, sounds like you haven't been living with this for very long. I guarantee you you'll get over it. I'm sure you'll never stop appreciating what you have now, but you will stop being shocked by it.
posted by erst at 5:54 PM on July 6, 2012
Also, sounds like you haven't been living with this for very long. I guarantee you you'll get over it. I'm sure you'll never stop appreciating what you have now, but you will stop being shocked by it.
posted by erst at 5:54 PM on July 6, 2012
You do have to have discussions about money. You're saying that he's spending money on a bed, but that bed is for the two of you. So are the dinners. And then you say that he's buying a house, so he has all these costs. You are just "along for the ride." And you say that he seems to have money in the bank, but that seems to be an inference, not something you know because you look at the bank statements.
I understand -- you're not married yet. But have you made plans for how you're going to handle money once you are married? Will he get to continue spending as much as he wants, on whatever he wants, because he makes most of the money? Is that okay with you? How are you going to decide what purchases to make? will you have a say? Will you be able to veto a purchase that you think is foolhardy or is he going to be shocked that you want to have some input into your financial matters?
It's these questions that might be a cause for concern.
posted by DMelanogaster at 6:00 PM on July 6, 2012
I understand -- you're not married yet. But have you made plans for how you're going to handle money once you are married? Will he get to continue spending as much as he wants, on whatever he wants, because he makes most of the money? Is that okay with you? How are you going to decide what purchases to make? will you have a say? Will you be able to veto a purchase that you think is foolhardy or is he going to be shocked that you want to have some input into your financial matters?
It's these questions that might be a cause for concern.
posted by DMelanogaster at 6:00 PM on July 6, 2012
Best answer: It sounds scary. Every time he spends money on dinner out, it might trigger your survival instincts, which have told you to save money for so long. This is a huge change in behavior. That knicknack on the shelf could be FOOD for a week! Or a stressful bill paid, or a present for a relative that you can just barely afford. All things that are more 'important'.
So you are seeing all this spending as a general wastefulness. I don't disagree with you at all, but you can absolutely adjust to it. Think of the $4000 bed as an act of love towards you. Then it becomes "wow, that's awesome". Think of the dinners out as him saving you from cooking, etc.
The other thing that will probably happen, is that once you get married, it's going to balance out between both of your styles a bit more. Dinners out still, but more cooking in as well.
posted by Vaike at 6:29 PM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
So you are seeing all this spending as a general wastefulness. I don't disagree with you at all, but you can absolutely adjust to it. Think of the $4000 bed as an act of love towards you. Then it becomes "wow, that's awesome". Think of the dinners out as him saving you from cooking, etc.
The other thing that will probably happen, is that once you get married, it's going to balance out between both of your styles a bit more. Dinners out still, but more cooking in as well.
posted by Vaike at 6:29 PM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: You know, you (and most commenters) are framing this as a matter of affordability, but I have ample spending money, and it would drive me absolutely nuts to be with someone who routinely bought the blu-ray of a movie they already had on DVD. And three TV's for two people? I would judge the hell out of them for that, and those sorts of people are better off with someone who doesn't judge them for their choices.
Some people enjoy owning lots of things, and some people prefer a more spartan existence, and both of those are OK; however, if you're far enough apart on that spectrum one of you is going to be unhappy in your shared living space. I'm not saying you can't work this out, but along with the excellent advice to address your feelings about money with your guy, you should also address your very different attitudes toward Stuff and the role it plays in your life/home.
posted by five toed sloth at 7:12 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Some people enjoy owning lots of things, and some people prefer a more spartan existence, and both of those are OK; however, if you're far enough apart on that spectrum one of you is going to be unhappy in your shared living space. I'm not saying you can't work this out, but along with the excellent advice to address your feelings about money with your guy, you should also address your very different attitudes toward Stuff and the role it plays in your life/home.
posted by five toed sloth at 7:12 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I'm sorry for the hyperbole. The thing is, I actually do freak out a little (on the inside, never at him, my hand wringing goes on in my head) when he drops a lot of money on something. It takes me a long time to get over the fact that he CAN do this without having to juggle bills or worry about how we're gonna eat until the next payday. We've talked about this on and off and he's aware that we come from very different backgrounds and knows that big spending can make me uneasy. He just doesn't completely understand why because he knows he has the money to spend.
Also, I so don't think my way is better, which is why I don't berate him for spending what he wants to spend on whatever he wants to buy. I'm not judging him, I'm just kind of incredulous about it. It's also why I don't want to stop him from doing whatever it is he wants to do. I just want to feel different about it.
I guess what we need is time.
posted by patheral at 7:15 PM on July 6, 2012
Also, I so don't think my way is better, which is why I don't berate him for spending what he wants to spend on whatever he wants to buy. I'm not judging him, I'm just kind of incredulous about it. It's also why I don't want to stop him from doing whatever it is he wants to do. I just want to feel different about it.
I guess what we need is time.
posted by patheral at 7:15 PM on July 6, 2012
Two thoughts that came to mind for me:
(a) read Limbo: Blue-Collar Roots, White-Collar Dreams, which is exactly about this kind of switch between growing up poor and not living the poor lifestyle any more.
(b) Take a while to commit to marriage in this relationship, okay? You've only been with him six months, and I think you need some time to get used to his lifestyle and how things are gonna go.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:38 PM on July 6, 2012
(a) read Limbo: Blue-Collar Roots, White-Collar Dreams, which is exactly about this kind of switch between growing up poor and not living the poor lifestyle any more.
(b) Take a while to commit to marriage in this relationship, okay? You've only been with him six months, and I think you need some time to get used to his lifestyle and how things are gonna go.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:38 PM on July 6, 2012
Time and talking. I know I'm harping on this, but i hear you say that you're freaking out "on the inside", and maybe that's why it's taking you a long time to get past it - does he KNOW that you're freaking out like this? Does he know that it's because of how you grew up?
I see you trying to put all the impetus on yourself to change, but maybe he needs to change a little bit too right now -- he just has to know what's going on in your head so he understands why and how.
Don't try to do this alone, let him know what's going on!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:38 PM on July 6, 2012
I see you trying to put all the impetus on yourself to change, but maybe he needs to change a little bit too right now -- he just has to know what's going on in your head so he understands why and how.
Don't try to do this alone, let him know what's going on!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:38 PM on July 6, 2012
Anyway, he's told me that he's got the money in the bank, and I know that his bills are always paid. We're in the process of buying a house right now -- well, he is, I'm just along for the ride.
This attitude worries me, and I think it might be the anxious underpinning of a lot of this issue. Just because you aren't going to be making a financial contribution to your household doesn't mean that you are just "along for the ride" and that you don't have a stake in this. It sounds like you have been independent and self reliant for a long time -- it makes perfect sense to me that you would be uncomfortable with just going with it, just assuming that your finances will be taken care of because your future husband has done OK so far. And I'm not saying that this is about a subconscious fear that they won't be taken care of, I'm saying it's about having agency and a sense of self with regard to your financial future. Something as simple as, "Honey, I'd like to go over the accounts and see where we stand," or balancing the checkbook/reviewing the credit card bills.
posted by telegraph at 7:39 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
This attitude worries me, and I think it might be the anxious underpinning of a lot of this issue. Just because you aren't going to be making a financial contribution to your household doesn't mean that you are just "along for the ride" and that you don't have a stake in this. It sounds like you have been independent and self reliant for a long time -- it makes perfect sense to me that you would be uncomfortable with just going with it, just assuming that your finances will be taken care of because your future husband has done OK so far. And I'm not saying that this is about a subconscious fear that they won't be taken care of, I'm saying it's about having agency and a sense of self with regard to your financial future. Something as simple as, "Honey, I'd like to go over the accounts and see where we stand," or balancing the checkbook/reviewing the credit card bills.
posted by telegraph at 7:39 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
One way I have been addressing a similar impulse is to dig a bit deeper. Money goes somewhere, right?
That $50 dinner paid people to prepare it and serve it to you, and it's the type of job that people pick up when they are in the money situation you used to be in. So now that you are comfortable, you can pay it forward with your business.
A similar reason is why I pay cash in West Virginia.
posted by bookdragoness at 8:01 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
That $50 dinner paid people to prepare it and serve it to you, and it's the type of job that people pick up when they are in the money situation you used to be in. So now that you are comfortable, you can pay it forward with your business.
A similar reason is why I pay cash in West Virginia.
posted by bookdragoness at 8:01 PM on July 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Though I have to admit that it crossed my mind when he dropped over $4K on a bed -- a BED!!! I've never paid more than $100 for a bed in my entire life! Anyway, he bought the bed because I mentioned I've always wanted a Sleep Number bed. I will admit that it's a really nice bed though...
A bed is not a silly thing to spend money on. You use a bed every day and the better the bed the better you sleep. Spending good money on a bed is like an investment in your physical and mental health. And I’m only saying this because I think you need to adjust your thinking about things. Some things should cost more because quality does cost more.
In general there are a few issues here. The most important one is that you two need to be on the same page when it comes to dealing with money. I’m a big fan of Gail Vaz-Oxlade’s article So, You’re Getting Married? The questions in here are questions that you two need to go through together.
The other stuff about him having tchokes and action figures and stuff is separate. That stuff could cost him nothing and it would still bug you. You two have different interior design aesthetics and you’ll both need to compromise in some way either by only having a few in each room or by giving him an office/den type space in your new home where he can proudly display his things.
posted by GilvearSt at 8:27 PM on July 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
A bed is not a silly thing to spend money on. You use a bed every day and the better the bed the better you sleep. Spending good money on a bed is like an investment in your physical and mental health. And I’m only saying this because I think you need to adjust your thinking about things. Some things should cost more because quality does cost more.
In general there are a few issues here. The most important one is that you two need to be on the same page when it comes to dealing with money. I’m a big fan of Gail Vaz-Oxlade’s article So, You’re Getting Married? The questions in here are questions that you two need to go through together.
The other stuff about him having tchokes and action figures and stuff is separate. That stuff could cost him nothing and it would still bug you. You two have different interior design aesthetics and you’ll both need to compromise in some way either by only having a few in each room or by giving him an office/den type space in your new home where he can proudly display his things.
posted by GilvearSt at 8:27 PM on July 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
I come from a family that never had much money, and I was downright poor for the first ten years of my adult life. I grew up believing that frugality was a virtue and that security was the most important financial aim. I'm now able to put away a good amount of money for retirement, and also to buy quite a lot of stuff that I consider moderate luxuries. I see now that frugality actually isn't a virtue -- it's just damned smart not to waste stuff, and to save money for emergencies.
Talk with your guy about the future as regards money. Make a retirement plan that you can both feel comfortable about. So many people have unrealistic ideas of how much money they're going to need after they stop working, and they don't consider that the retirement stage of their lives could go on for a number of decades. So you both would do well to turn your attention in that direction.
You're well into adulthood, and pretty set in your ways. But you'll gradually start to loosen up a bit. The "wasteful" spending on restaurant meals may begin to feel like money well spent on pleasure and convenience. If you think the restaurant meals aren't that great and that you can and want to cook better meals at home, try to think of it as the smart choice, rather than the virtuous choice. Other spending choices will fall into a similar category... why pay more for something that you don't like as much? Spend money on things, and especially experiences, that give you pleasure.
Your preferences and behavior may influence his attitudes about money -- or maybe not. I do think it's a good idea for you to spend in a way that you're comfortable with, but it's very important not to think of his ways as morally wrong or unethical. Right now you sound pretty shocked and disapproving, and probably won't ever choose to live the same way he does. But pay more attention to what you do want, instead of what you don't like or don't want. Maybe you'll want to give money for charitable or social causes. You might even want to work fewer hours and instead do fulfilling things that you've never been able to do before. Also, you'll be using a lot less mental energy being frugal and cautious -- you can begin looking for fun and meaning, whether it costs dollars or not.
Being financially comfortable after years without discretionary income: it can feel very weird. You don't have to stop reading labels and unit prices. But you're definitely going to have to get used to a number of new aspects. You'll do this a little at a time. It seems really freaky right now. Give yourself time to adjust and figure out what's important to you. Really try to observe yourself and your changing relationship with money.
I really wish you well. Be emotionally generous, ask for your feelings to be respected, and just take it slow.
posted by wryly at 8:32 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Talk with your guy about the future as regards money. Make a retirement plan that you can both feel comfortable about. So many people have unrealistic ideas of how much money they're going to need after they stop working, and they don't consider that the retirement stage of their lives could go on for a number of decades. So you both would do well to turn your attention in that direction.
You're well into adulthood, and pretty set in your ways. But you'll gradually start to loosen up a bit. The "wasteful" spending on restaurant meals may begin to feel like money well spent on pleasure and convenience. If you think the restaurant meals aren't that great and that you can and want to cook better meals at home, try to think of it as the smart choice, rather than the virtuous choice. Other spending choices will fall into a similar category... why pay more for something that you don't like as much? Spend money on things, and especially experiences, that give you pleasure.
Your preferences and behavior may influence his attitudes about money -- or maybe not. I do think it's a good idea for you to spend in a way that you're comfortable with, but it's very important not to think of his ways as morally wrong or unethical. Right now you sound pretty shocked and disapproving, and probably won't ever choose to live the same way he does. But pay more attention to what you do want, instead of what you don't like or don't want. Maybe you'll want to give money for charitable or social causes. You might even want to work fewer hours and instead do fulfilling things that you've never been able to do before. Also, you'll be using a lot less mental energy being frugal and cautious -- you can begin looking for fun and meaning, whether it costs dollars or not.
Being financially comfortable after years without discretionary income: it can feel very weird. You don't have to stop reading labels and unit prices. But you're definitely going to have to get used to a number of new aspects. You'll do this a little at a time. It seems really freaky right now. Give yourself time to adjust and figure out what's important to you. Really try to observe yourself and your changing relationship with money.
I really wish you well. Be emotionally generous, ask for your feelings to be respected, and just take it slow.
posted by wryly at 8:32 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Exactly as GilvearSt says, your mad money doesn't go into a black hole: it's being spent *on* something, and if that something is supporting local restaurateurs, or artisans, or small businesses, you are doing more good for your community than keeping it balled up in a gym sock. If you can think of the spending that way, rather than just tossing cash into a fire, you can feel better about it.
posted by Pomo at 9:32 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Pomo at 9:32 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Try being really specific about what you’re thinking whenever you start to panic/get angry about his spending. So:
When feeling angry that he’s always had and chances are always will have financial security- remember that it’s not his fault you haven’t.
When feeling panic and rage when he spends money, as though that’ll be the direct cause of suffering for you in the future- remember that it won’t.
I’ve felt exactly the same way about my partner’s money, and constantly resetting myself like that has helped.
Over time you’ll see some benefits to being with someone who’s known their way around larger sums of money for a while. Currently you seem to be predicting that you’ll continue to feel this way about his spending forever, and it sucks to think you’ll always have to put up with this stress. But after a while you’ll have been through a few situations where his lack of a panic response about money, and his savviness about bigger sums of it, actually help you out. Then hopefully the feelings of injustice and wastefulness will start to recede.
Also try talking to him about his doohickeys- if you don’t know much about his hobbies, it’s understandable you think they ‘don’t do anything’. There’s probably something he gets from them that you can decide to like and approve of. That said, if you’re also reacting to any gender-based issue where you’re the one who’s expected to dust the doohickeys, enjoy telling him to dust his own animé butts.
posted by pickingupsticks at 11:26 PM on July 6, 2012
When feeling angry that he’s always had and chances are always will have financial security- remember that it’s not his fault you haven’t.
When feeling panic and rage when he spends money, as though that’ll be the direct cause of suffering for you in the future- remember that it won’t.
I’ve felt exactly the same way about my partner’s money, and constantly resetting myself like that has helped.
Over time you’ll see some benefits to being with someone who’s known their way around larger sums of money for a while. Currently you seem to be predicting that you’ll continue to feel this way about his spending forever, and it sucks to think you’ll always have to put up with this stress. But after a while you’ll have been through a few situations where his lack of a panic response about money, and his savviness about bigger sums of it, actually help you out. Then hopefully the feelings of injustice and wastefulness will start to recede.
Also try talking to him about his doohickeys- if you don’t know much about his hobbies, it’s understandable you think they ‘don’t do anything’. There’s probably something he gets from them that you can decide to like and approve of. That said, if you’re also reacting to any gender-based issue where you’re the one who’s expected to dust the doohickeys, enjoy telling him to dust his own animé butts.
posted by pickingupsticks at 11:26 PM on July 6, 2012
Would it help to maybe look at how much he spends as a percentage of his total income, or whatever? If you're earning $40,000 a year and you spend $4,000 on a bed, that's 10% of your yearly income on one thing. If you're earning $100,000 a year, it's obviously a lot less of a percentage. Maybe that will help you get into a more accurate mindset of how much he's spending?
posted by Solomon at 11:38 PM on July 6, 2012
posted by Solomon at 11:38 PM on July 6, 2012
Best answer: they have a joint account that each of them directs a chunk of their pay to, direct deposit, and bills and the mortgage get paid for from it. The rest of their pay check is theirs do spend as each of them wish. It help keep my friend from having a heart attack every time her husband drops a couple hundred bucks on a new guitar.
This works for many, many people. Having big differences in money attitudes is as common as not in relationships. What you're going through is completely common.
When you sit down for your mingling-money talk, it might help if you can see the numbers. If you see that you really CAN afford it, and you really DO have savings, it might ease some of your fears.
Most of this, though, are thought patterns in yourself you might want to work yourself out of. Living in scarcity mode is a hard habit to break, but you are doing yourself, your fiance, and your friends no favors by sticking to it when you don't need to. That goes for knick-knacks, too.
You are not a better person for not eating out. You are not a better person for not having extraneous crap around.
Despite what it sounds like, I sympathize with you completely. When I see an $80 pasta bowl, all I can think of is the soup kitchen down the street. But if a stupid pasta bowl makes someone happy, it's cheap at twice the price. When I see tchotckes, all I see is stuff I'll need to pack and move, because I have had to move so often.
Deal with this part first- the thought pattern part- and THEN you'll be in a more realistic place to work your new life a little less consumeristic. Currently you're coming from a place of reaction and emotion rather than well considered thought and mindfulness.
If you can find a therapist for it, great, though finding a therapist who's a good fit is quite a project in its own right. In the meantime, you might just notice when that fear/frustration kicks in. Don't try to knock it out of yourself or anything. It comes from a good spot. But notice it as though you were an observer. "Huh! Mr Patheral's buying a $60 turnip twaddler. I'm getting all tense again. Look at that tenseness. Yup. Like clockwork, it is!" And if you want to go further, you can add "Why am I getting tense? Is it that important? Am I afraid of something? Is it a fear about me? About our relationship? Interesting!"
If you're like me, you'll end up more detached and not prey to the knee-jerk emotion it brings up, and then you'll be in a better position (not right then! in a month or whenever your money-mingling comes up) to talk about it without being judgey.
The other part, for me, is during the money mingling talks (and they should be on-going. Neither of you are committing to doing money in X way for the rest of your lives!) is to talk about your money wishes as though they were just that- your wishes. Not that he's doing it wrong.
For instance, maybe charity is important to you. How can you (plural) fit it into your (plural) spending plan? Maybe having huge savings is important to you. Maybe having one knick-knack-free room is important to you. Maybe putting less plastic on the planet is important to you. The point needs to not be that he's Wrong. The point needs to be that your (singular AND plural) needs are being met, emotional and otherwise.
That was a hell of long post and I'm not yet caffeinated. I hope it makes some sense. I have a memail for you, too, because this is something I struggle with myself, from a different direction but a similar background.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:15 AM on July 7, 2012 [7 favorites]
This works for many, many people. Having big differences in money attitudes is as common as not in relationships. What you're going through is completely common.
When you sit down for your mingling-money talk, it might help if you can see the numbers. If you see that you really CAN afford it, and you really DO have savings, it might ease some of your fears.
Most of this, though, are thought patterns in yourself you might want to work yourself out of. Living in scarcity mode is a hard habit to break, but you are doing yourself, your fiance, and your friends no favors by sticking to it when you don't need to. That goes for knick-knacks, too.
You are not a better person for not eating out. You are not a better person for not having extraneous crap around.
Despite what it sounds like, I sympathize with you completely. When I see an $80 pasta bowl, all I can think of is the soup kitchen down the street. But if a stupid pasta bowl makes someone happy, it's cheap at twice the price. When I see tchotckes, all I see is stuff I'll need to pack and move, because I have had to move so often.
Deal with this part first- the thought pattern part- and THEN you'll be in a more realistic place to work your new life a little less consumeristic. Currently you're coming from a place of reaction and emotion rather than well considered thought and mindfulness.
If you can find a therapist for it, great, though finding a therapist who's a good fit is quite a project in its own right. In the meantime, you might just notice when that fear/frustration kicks in. Don't try to knock it out of yourself or anything. It comes from a good spot. But notice it as though you were an observer. "Huh! Mr Patheral's buying a $60 turnip twaddler. I'm getting all tense again. Look at that tenseness. Yup. Like clockwork, it is!" And if you want to go further, you can add "Why am I getting tense? Is it that important? Am I afraid of something? Is it a fear about me? About our relationship? Interesting!"
If you're like me, you'll end up more detached and not prey to the knee-jerk emotion it brings up, and then you'll be in a better position (not right then! in a month or whenever your money-mingling comes up) to talk about it without being judgey.
The other part, for me, is during the money mingling talks (and they should be on-going. Neither of you are committing to doing money in X way for the rest of your lives!) is to talk about your money wishes as though they were just that- your wishes. Not that he's doing it wrong.
For instance, maybe charity is important to you. How can you (plural) fit it into your (plural) spending plan? Maybe having huge savings is important to you. Maybe having one knick-knack-free room is important to you. Maybe putting less plastic on the planet is important to you. The point needs to not be that he's Wrong. The point needs to be that your (singular AND plural) needs are being met, emotional and otherwise.
That was a hell of long post and I'm not yet caffeinated. I hope it makes some sense. I have a memail for you, too, because this is something I struggle with myself, from a different direction but a similar background.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:15 AM on July 7, 2012 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I guess I should point out that I didn't have impractical stuff lying around my house because my living spaces have always been tiny. Some of you may recall that about two years ago, I was living in an 18 foot motor home. After that, I rented a room from a friend of mine. Frivolous decor just doesn't happen when there isn't room to spare (like when I was squeezing three teenagers and myself into a two bedroom apartment). Pretty is nice, but practical is better in these situations.
This new house will be the first time I'll live in a house where we'll have more bedroom than people, and that took some time to get used to. Anyway, most of my guy's doohickeys are going in his office/man-cave when we move. This isn't because I don't want to see them, but mostly because they give him pleasure to look at. I have no idea what most of them are, and I'm a nerdy girl myself - our nerdiness just runs in different directions.
Thanks for the answers and memails, everyone. You've given me a lot to think about.
posted by patheral at 9:28 AM on July 7, 2012
This new house will be the first time I'll live in a house where we'll have more bedroom than people, and that took some time to get used to. Anyway, most of my guy's doohickeys are going in his office/man-cave when we move. This isn't because I don't want to see them, but mostly because they give him pleasure to look at. I have no idea what most of them are, and I'm a nerdy girl myself - our nerdiness just runs in different directions.
Thanks for the answers and memails, everyone. You've given me a lot to think about.
posted by patheral at 9:28 AM on July 7, 2012
Response by poster: more bedrooms than people. Ugh haven't had my coffee yet.
posted by patheral at 9:29 AM on July 7, 2012
posted by patheral at 9:29 AM on July 7, 2012
On the decorating end: I don't have lots of money, but I do have lots of (too much) stuff. One philosophy I'm trying to adhere to is: everything in my home should be at least two out of three of Beautiful, Useful, or Loved. If it's not, out it goes. Maybe you can compromise with your fiance by him choosing more objects that are Useful as well as Beautiful, and you relaxing more about objects that are Loved and Beautiful.
posted by nicebookrack at 6:02 PM on July 10, 2012
posted by nicebookrack at 6:02 PM on July 10, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
Well the issue about the things on the shelf (having/displaying items that aren't strictly practical) is different from the issue about spending money (eating out vs. cooking at home, etc.) so first off we should separate those.
About having items that aren't practical, I think you can ease yourself into that if you let yourself. I think you have been denying certain kinds of frivolity to yourself for a long time, at first as a way to survive and stay functional, and then as habit. I think if you let YOURSELF have, display, and enjoy an entirely "impractical" thing or two, to start, you will resent it less and less for him to do it.
Have you ever seen anything that made you think, "that is just beautiful" or "wow, that is so interesting," or, "when I look at this, I feel so happy." It doesn't have to be something that costs money. It could just be something like a conch shell from the beach, or an old family photo. If I were you I would dip my toe in by starting there. Find a space where you can display that thing and enjoy it.
About the money stuff-- thing is, when you get married, the default is usually that it's no longer "his money" or "your money" - it becomes household money. I think it would be okay to try to find a balance there instead of just shutting up as he gets 30 Blu-Ray copies of the same thing or whatever. Absolutely, now is the perfect time to work all of these things out and come closer to a point where you're both comfortable. This is also something where I think you may move closer to how he is in time, if you let yourself, but I don't know that that's necessarily a good thing.
posted by cairdeas at 4:18 PM on July 6, 2012 [5 favorites]