Are we big meanies for not paying our son's college fines?

June 25, 2012 10:39 AM

At the end of year 2, our son has a balance owing to his college of about $500, for parking tickets, library fines, etc. Unless this is paid, he can't register for classes for the coming year. Are we being mean not to pay it, or loan it to him?

The incurring of this balance was purely avoidable: it consists mostly of penalties for not paying the original fines, which were half this amount.
We also know if we pay it, we're using money we don't have, and not being even-handed to our other kids in college.
We considered loaning it to him, but based on past performance, we wouldn't see it again.
However, the consequences are big:
1) He would have to earn the money, and would have to wait a semester or more to re-register for classes after paying it;
2) He would lose a very large tuition discount he gets currently, which he only gets while he's registered for consecutive years;
3) He would need to move home during the semester or year he takes out, and would likely not be the happiest of campers during that time, due to our perceived meanness.
He's already had more money than he's due, for other reasons, some valid, some not so valid. But the line needs to be drawn somewhere, and unfortunately we think it needs to be here.
Are we being mean? What else should we be thinking about doing? We kind of feel like we're being mean, but don't see a viable alternative, given that it's like throwing good money after bad most of the time.

posted by anonymous to Education (109 answers total)

At some point, your son will need to fend for himself. You will do him a disservice if you pay this. He needs to talk to the University and work out a payment plan. Administrative services have seen this kind of thing before and will almost certainly be able to help him out. When is it due? Does he have the whole summer? He can definitely get a job and pay it off. $500 is not that much for a 19-21 year old sophomore when you have a summer job for a few months.
posted by 200burritos at 10:42 AM on June 25, 2012 [17 favorites]

Does he live with you? I think it sets a really bad precedent to pay it off for him consequence-free, but maybe you could make some arrangement where he does chores (yard work, cleaning the house, washing the cars, etc) for an hourly rate to work off the debt to you. And make clear that this is a one-time deal and he is on his own going forward.
posted by something something at 10:43 AM on June 25, 2012

Whenever I was in college we borrowed more than the cost of tuition and recieved a refund check. Why can't he borrow the sum?
posted by Rubbstone at 10:44 AM on June 25, 2012

You're not being mean. You're helping him to grow up.

He can pump gas, flip burgers, wait tables, mow lawns, and/or or whatever else is necessary to earn $500.
posted by DWRoelands at 10:44 AM on June 25, 2012 [4 favorites]

Those are his fines and he needs to come up with the $500. How he comes up with it is not your concern.
posted by kindall at 10:44 AM on June 25, 2012

First, if there's any way (like some of the suggestions above) for him to get this money on his own, he should be required to do that -- without any suggestion that you'd help later on.

But honestly? If he can't pay it, and you feel like he has truly tried all avenues available to him, then if you can pay it, I think you should, because losing an entire semester of college, as well as him having to pay much, much more in tuition later on is an undue punishment for this. I would institute severe rules though -- moving home for a semester or year regardless to save on board money, and paying you rent, for example, and charging him a bunch of interest. But yes, I think you should help him out.
posted by brainmouse at 10:45 AM on June 25, 2012 [53 favorites]

I don't think you're being mean, but you might want to consider whether college is something you want for him possibly slightly more than he wants it for himself at this point. Well, if this is the case with your kid -- do you really want to play chicken with him over college? What if you lose?
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 10:47 AM on June 25, 2012 [33 favorites]

Time to grow up. The longer you shield from the consequences, the worse it will be and the harder the fall will need to be down the road to make an impression.
posted by iamabot at 10:47 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

You may want to take my advice with a grain of salt, since I'm not a parent (nor do I tend to be very patient or as forgiving as other people), but I say don't pay it. I gather from what you've written that this sort of thing isn't out of character, and sooner or later, he'll have to learn to deal with the consequences of his actions. I've seen similar issues in my family, and I think that too much familial protection has lead things to much much worse for this individual than they would have been had everyone taken a step back and not kept bailing him out. It seems like it should be possible to be supportive emotionally without also enabling this kind of behavior... although your son might not see it that way now. One day, eventually, he will.

Agreed that some sort of payment plan could probably be set up, and it seems like he should be able to manage to work enough this summer to make $500 at that age.
posted by divisjm at 10:47 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

It's not unreasonable to tell him you don't have the money if that's the case. And if even if you had it, he's old enough to learn to pay his bills on time. But on the other hand, he'd also lose some benefits by dealing with the consequences, and that would have an impact on his life "after he learned to manage his money like an adult". I would make a compromise - loan him the money (if you have it, or a part of it if you don't) under the condition he gets a job and pays you back. Don't give him anything before he can show you a contract for a job, if only a summer job, so you know he's willing to do it and not makes an empty promise.
posted by MinusCelsius at 10:49 AM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

I think it's fair to help him brainstorm some options for acquiring that $500. Whether that be arranging a payment plan, finding a loan elsewhere, looking for work, or whatever. You are absolutely not being mean by not bailing him out, but I do think you could meet him part way and show him how to be responsible about this. It could be damaging for him to tackle this on his own completely, since he lacks the experience to know his options and he may be afraid to meet the challenge head on, only compounding the issue.
posted by sunshinesky at 10:49 AM on June 25, 2012 [5 favorites]

In general, I agree with the general "this is the line, no farther" sentiment you're describing.

I assume you pay your son's tuition? If so, not paying the $500 fine sounds like it will end up cost you more in the long run (what is the amount of the tuition discount that you'd be forgoing?).

What is the frequency of the tuition payments? If, for example, they're quarterly, can you require that your son pay you $125 before any quarterly tuition payment is paid, and if he is late or misses any of those $125 payments then the tuition does not get paid and he becomes responsible for paying for his education on his own from that point on?

The bigger question for you - are you willing to put the continuity of your son's education in jeopardy to teach him this lesson?
posted by de void at 10:49 AM on June 25, 2012 [4 favorites]

Honestly? I'd pay it. This isn't where to draw the line, as it will cause both you and him really outsized bad consequences - loss of the tuition discount, first and foremost. That means he'll be saddled with even more outsized college debt, which in turn is going to limit his job and life possibilities tremendously - it's a shame that he doesn't understand that $500 now may mean tens of thousands of dollars down the road, but that doesn't mean it's smart to saddle him with the debt. And if he has to move home with you, well, you're going to have to live with him. (And moving to and fro will cost more money, although that's comparatively trivial punishment for the foolery.)

It's easy to say that you have to draw the line somewhere - but I bet there's going to be a place to draw it, probably fairly soon, that doesn't mean an extra few hundred dollars a month in student loans for the next twenty years, less career flexibility, probably delays in marriage and children, certainly a lot more economic precarity. If the kid has $500/month in loans and can't afford a doctor visit, I bet you'll be stumping up to help him with that, and then with any treatment.
posted by Frowner at 10:50 AM on June 25, 2012 [45 favorites]

Are we being mean?

Not at all. This doesn't much different from offering to pay off a bar tab to me.

What else should we be thinking about doing?

Nothing. His university has presumably informed him of the fines and the consequences for not paying them. If there were circumstances beyond his control (say, an unforeseen bit of car maintenance), then floating a loan might be do-able, but given your misgivings about seeing it repaid, I'd probably even hesitate there. There's nothing mean at all about teaching someone to own the consequences of their actions (or inactions).
posted by jquinby at 10:52 AM on June 25, 2012

No, you're not being mean.

A relative of mine sounds just like your son, in that he just sort of does what he wants and buys what he wants without thinking of the consequences or the ability to pay for it, and his parents do nothing but enable it. A few examples: despite his siblings telling him that a dog is a money pit and he can't afford it, he went ahead and bought (!!!!!) a German Shepherd. Now he has a "purebred" dog without papers and his parents have not only had to buy food for it, but also house it when his landlord discovered it. Which, he could pay a pet fee to keep the dog there, but he can't afford that either. Nor can he afford the training needed by a German Shepherd, and he refuses to train it himself.

He also just signed a year-long extension to his lease in his college town, starting in August, even though he graduates from college in December, and college is within driving distance of his parents' house. His July rent is now due, and he can't afford it. He's hit up his parents, he's hit up his sister. And he still can't pay it. Which... well, his parents cosigned the lease and enabled him.

He also just needed an iPhone, to upgrade from his standard phone. Everyone told him that, well, he couldn't afford it. And sure enough, on his second or third bill, he was short and couldn't afford it. And now his parents are paying for that as well.

His parents, who are only a few years from retirement-age, and barely have a few cents to their name, his parents who work 50 hours a week each because they're barely scraping by. These are just a few examples, but he gets away with all of this—and these are just a few examples—because he knows he can get whatever he wants from his parents and they will cover his ass when he makes a bad decision.

Indeed, it's time to grow up. You're not being mean. If your son can't pay his fines and fees, he'll suffer the consequences that he set himself up for. Will it maybe really damage his future? Maybe. But that's his choice to make.
posted by The Michael The at 10:54 AM on June 25, 2012

There are certain hills to die on where you have to stand your ground and have your child take responsibility for himself and his decisions. A matter of $500 where the risk is about losing thousands of dollars in tuition discounts is not that moment. Instead, figure out some way to get this settled and find some other leverage to hold over your child's head in order to enforce more responsible behavior. If it's a loan, make it conditional on him making payments on the loan immediately. Or something.

This strikes me as one of those cases where there is a temptation for a parent to act on principle where it's not really warranted in this case.
posted by deanc at 10:54 AM on June 25, 2012 [43 favorites]

2) He would lose a very large tuition discount he gets currently, which he only gets while he's registered for consecutive years;

This moves this from tough love to basically hardcore financial escalation, for me. It makes this not so much a question of whether you're being "mean" as one of whether you are willing to turn this from a dispute about spending into a potentially really serious new financial obstacle to him completing his education.

To be clear, I think you are completely justified in not wanting to answer bad financial responsibility with more small-scale lending you don't feel confident you'll see again, and I think taking the position of not extending unlimited trust is the right one. But it's a tough situation if you're potentially choosing to severely jack up the cost of his education to make a point about the $500, so you need to look at it in those terms. If him getting the wake-up call is more important than keeping that tuition situation stable, so be it, but if that's not something that can be fixed after the fact that's a big, big consequence.

Principle is important but don't let it paint you into a corner if the outcome of being hardline about this is drastic. You might consider making an on-paper agreement about regular repayment of the $500 in installments over the summer and communicating the fact that this is a compromise you're making only because of the serious consequences of the fee situation he's gotten himself into, and that this is a last-chance sort of thing.
posted by cortex at 10:55 AM on June 25, 2012 [41 favorites]

You aren't being mean. This is the real world.

How are his grades? Is he dicking around making the barest minimum of decent grades, or is he doing great? If he's doing well, cut him some slack, loan him the money and make him work all summer to make it up.

Give him the option to earn at least half of the money before ponying up. Once he hands you $250, then you can pay the fines, with the understanding that he still owes you and you expect to be paid.

Here's the thing, if he fails to make the money needed and he's not able to attend school, would you be willing to kick him out on his own? That's the real world. You're not in school? Then you're working, and paying us rent.

He's a grown person, he's an adult. He's made some shitty decisions and he needs to clean up his mess. But he's also not quite mature, and he needs a kick in the ass to get him moving.

Having him lose his discounts, waiting a year to re-enroll, but letting him live at home being a resentful, mopey little shit doesn't sound like the right answer either.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:58 AM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

If you are the ones responsible for paying his annual tuition, and he will lose a substantial discount for not being registered for consecutive years, then it seems awfully ill-advised to not pay out the $500 in this situation. I know it feels like enabling shitty behavior (it is), but you're really only going to be punishing yourselves if you end up having to pay more overall.
posted by elizardbits at 10:58 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

due to our perceived meanness

I don't know if you can get genuinely useful answers* with this part dangling with no elaboration. There are plenty of parents who are actually mean parents and don't think they are. But if your relationship with your kid is that degraded, that deteriorated, maybe it's time for some introspection, maybe you want to start talking to him about more than $500. I would be crushed if my kid ever found it that distasteful to cohabitate with me; the feeling one gets from this is that you think it's amusing that this is happening in your family. It's embarrassing, not funny. Fix the relationship and I would bet a lot of the financial responsibility problems will sort themselves out. It looks like you are dealing with a mutually disrespectful relationship; not good.

* Though given the available information, I fully side with the answerers saying that the consequences are too serious and this is not a good place to take a stand for the sake of taking a stand
posted by kmennie at 11:00 AM on June 25, 2012 [5 favorites]

The consequences of not paying are pretty dire.

I would loan him the $500, and take his car as an IOU. He gets his car back when he's repaid you.

He learns an important lesson about consequences without jeopardizing his school career, and a couple months riding the bus will ensure that you get paid back fairly quickly.

If he complains that you're treating him like a child, well, you are. You would only show your child this kind of favouritism.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:01 AM on June 25, 2012 [70 favorites]

I'll be in the minority with brainmouse on this issue. There needs to be a set of consequences and a repayment plan, yes, but also consider this.

If he cannot continue because of this fine, then what is the likelihood that we will be able to enroll minus the "very large" tuition discount at a future date? You don't say much about whether he is working hard on the academics, is he engaged in school, is he working at a job at the same time? Yeah you don't want to be a meanie, and he did screw this up, but think selfishly for a minute about what is really at stake here if he drops out of the college pipeline.

I suggest making a details, on paper agreement with the understanding that he will not be able to call on you again -- but by all means try to help him plan a strategy.
posted by cgk at 11:01 AM on June 25, 2012

2) He would lose a very large tuition discount he gets currently, which he only gets while he's registered for consecutive years;

Saddling him with debt as a punishment would be disproportionate to what he's done.

Loan him the money, and require that he get a part time job during the semester, paying you $50/week until it's paid off. Tell him this is a one-time deal, and if he does this next semester he's shit outta luck.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:02 AM on June 25, 2012 [11 favorites]

How long does he have to pay this back? Is he going to have to wait to register for classes regardless of who pays it back? If he needs this money in a week then that's something to think about but if he has a couple months or more, he can earn/save $500 in a couple months.
posted by girlmightlive at 11:02 AM on June 25, 2012

My parents would probably have lent me the money after some painful lectures, and put me on a payment plan to pay them back (even if it was $10/month). My parents foot the bill for college, room, and board, but I was expected to work. I had 2 part-time jobs in college, and worked full-time in the summer to pay for my textbooks/beer/clothes/gas/whatever. They called it burden-sharing, and I think they did right by me and my siblings with this mindset.

My parents were also not beyond making a gift of lent money, if they could afford it and ONLY if the kid had made a good faith effort to pay it back. Upon receiving the last payment, they'd turn around and gift the sum they'd put aside. This taught me a lot about the value of saving even $10 a month and the time they did that for me was a gamechanger for my savings account that I still benefit from today.
posted by juliplease at 11:02 AM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]

He needs to sock away about $70 a week, every week between now and what I'm estimating as the beginning of the semester (august 15).

He gets a job, and puts $70 in a jar every payday, before he goes out and buys beer, before he goes to the movies, before he does anything. He. Puts. $70. In. The. Jar.

If he's working even a minimum wage job he can totally do that, especially if he's living at home with you. And how you're helping him to pay it back: he doesn't have to pay rent to anybody while he works to pay back his obligations.

If he doesn't have a job, he wanders the neighborhood putting up fliers to do odd jobs for $10/an hour or whatever. He cuts lawns, he moves furniture, he helps little old ladies clean out their garage. He does what it takes to put $70 in the jar. Every week.

There is nothing stopping you from helping him make up the difference at the end of the summer, if he works hard but due to totally unforseen circumstances (multiple flat tires, say) he comes up short.

But no, he needs to get on the stick about his own obligations.
posted by gauche at 11:03 AM on June 25, 2012

I think what Frowner and Cortex said: it sounds like not paying this will impact his future far beyond the lesson he might learn. If this happens, standing your ground now might mean HUGE amounts of bailing him out or supporting him later - far beyond $500. Not to mention any bitterness and estrangement that might arise if he thinks "if only my parents had helped me out with a lousy $500, I wouldn't be in debt to the tune of $BIGSUM now. I'm damned if I'm going to speak to them for a good long while."

I think Cortex's solution is the right one. Pay the $500 yourself, and treat it as a loan, not a gift. Write out an agreement on paper that your son will pay you back in installments - and that he HAS to do whatever it takes, as in get a day-labor job, work at McDonalds, or whatever. And make it absolutely crystal clear that the ONLY reason you are bailing him out is because this is Serious Business.

Perhaps you could sit down and have a long, frank discussion with him about budgeting and what to handle money in the future. Did you teach him responsible budgeting growing up? Was your family money/budget an "adults only" matter that wasn't the business of a mere kid? I think it's the parent's job to teach and model financial literacy and responsibility, if what you want is a responsible kid.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:03 AM on June 25, 2012

How about a compromise? Agree with him that if he raises $250, you will pay the other $250.

If he takes the deal, be very clear with him ahead of time about what you will and will not pay. i.e. make it clear that if he incurs more of these types of expenses over the next academic year, he'll have to pay for them out of his own pocket or drop out of school, and it's not your business which one he chooses.
posted by ErikaB at 11:04 AM on June 25, 2012

500$? His own fault? Jesus, loan IFF he gets an income stream to pay it off quickly- that's like, two weeks' waiter work
posted by MangyCarface at 11:04 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

The incurring of this balance was purely avoidable

Also consider the back end, which is that $500 is not a huge amount of money. (I don't mean to minimize it; for some people, it is a huge amount, but there are some contextual clues in the question stem here.) Does your son truly have no way to earn $500 in the next two months? And equally difficult to believe, does your son truly have nothing he could sell (eBay, Craigslist, pawn shop, etc.) that is worth $500?

Phrased back in your terms: If you don't bail him out, is nonpayment of this $500 truly unavoidable for him?

I disagree with those placing the blame for debt on you (words like "choosing" and "punishment"), if you refuse to give/loan him the money. Your son owns the consequences to his actions. Also, you noted that this would be money you "don't have." The potential increase in tuition is a big deal, but you bear no fault for it.
posted by cribcage at 11:07 AM on June 25, 2012 [4 favorites]

He would lose a very large tuition discount he gets currently, which he only gets while he's registered for consecutive years

Jeopardizing that for the sake of "fairness" seems like misplaced priorities. Loaning him the money with a short repayment time seems like it balances out fairness, making him learn from his own mistakes by facing the consequences, and taking the longer view.

Right now, student debt is killing young people. Anything that can help reduce that burden is like gold. I don't think you're being "mean" in not loaning him the money, I just think you're being short-sighted.

And I agree with everyone that making it clear this is the last time the Bank of Mom and Dad is open for parking fines or library overdues or anything he could have avoided is absolutely essential.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:08 AM on June 25, 2012 [5 favorites]

You aren't being mean, but I would say you are being petty. $500 is a lot but it's not worth losing your tuition discount over.

I would tell him to do a FAFSA (if you are in the US) and take out an educational loan to cover that amount, or to talk to the Financials office and see about a payment plan.

The time to teach him responsibility was during the semester, when you'd been demonstrating favoritism towards him, not now when there are long-term life consequences.
posted by spunweb at 11:08 AM on June 25, 2012

Wouldn't you rather have a son who's in college? I agree with those who say that his not registering could have far-reaching consequences. So if he is really unable to pay, lend him the money. I don't know his personal circumstances/work ethic. If he does have a job, certainly set boundaries to make sure that he pays you back in a timely fashion. If he doesn't, bear in mind that it's hard to find one these days.
posted by mlle valentine at 11:09 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

I don't quite understand. Does it have to be paid immediately? Why would he have to wait a semester? Can't he earn the money this summer? That's not a whole lot to be earned by August or September. Please explain. Are you in the southern hemisphere and the semester starts in July? Will he lose a seat in necessary classes if he doesn't register now?
posted by mareli at 11:11 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

Have him see if he can borrow the money from someone else, someone who will expect the money to be paid back. Can her get a loan from the bank, grandma or uncle? It's easier to blow off his parents than it is a bank or his grandmother.
posted by Flacka at 11:12 AM on June 25, 2012

Admittedly, after reading many of the other responses, I've decided to change (or at least soften) my tune. As if my obvious bias due to my own family weren't enough, in my response I made the assumption that your kid would be able to acquire the money on his own in time. If he can't, then yeah, the consequences probably are disproportionate to the crime. If there is something you can work out strongly encourage him to pay you back over time. Especially if school really matters to him (either now, or for his future goals). I have seen people spend a crazy amount of money on school and never actually finish, just because it was something that they felt obligated to do, and that's not an good situation either. But I don't know whether that applies here.

Best of luck.
posted by divisjm at 11:13 AM on June 25, 2012

No you are not being mean. If he's in college he's old enough to know how to pay fines. Honestly I would class this as an SEP (someone else's problem), remember you don't have to let him move back home if he doesn't go to college next year.

Having said that if he's having money problems he could possibly earn the money off you for doing some work of some sort. I'd suggest work he could do before hand and then pay him if he's copped out of paying off loans.

Other option offer it up as the next 5 years of Christmas/birthday presents .. . and then you don't have to worry about him repaying it, and you can save money on presents and he gets to see the cost of his mistakes still. .
posted by wwax at 11:14 AM on June 25, 2012

I don't think you're being mean, I think you're being inconsistent. You taught him through your prior behavior that he didn't have to pay those fines. He was doing what you taught him to do (blow it off & the 'rents will take care of it w/no consequences).

Yes he needs to be responsible, but this seems a pretty high-cost, high-consequence first lesson. I say pay the fine and have him either sign over his summer-job paycheck to you until it's paid off (and you give him a small allowance out of that), or have him give you $500 of stuff that means something to him (guitar, car keys, etc.) as collateral for him paying you back.
posted by headnsouth at 11:16 AM on June 25, 2012 [6 favorites]

The OP didn't provide enough info. When is the $500 due? How good of student is he?

If the money is due next week and he's a good student, then loan him $500.

If the money is due three months from now and he's a good student, tell him to earn it somehow. If he fails for whatever reason, loan him $500. It's not worth losing the discount because a 19/20 year old is financial dumb despite being a good student.

If the money is due NOW and he's not a good student, that's more difficult. I'd probably do it with onerous terms if he seemed sincere about getting his act together.

If the money is due in three months and he's not a good student, then he's on his own.
posted by mullacc at 11:18 AM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

2) He would lose a very large tuition discount he gets currently, which he only gets while he's registered for consecutive years;

This is the reason I think you should pay it. I know it seems like you're enabling him (and you are!) but it sounds like he will become financially and academically screwed over $500. Have you been letting a lot of things slide and then finally snapped and decided that this is the line in the sand you needed to draw?

What i also don't understand is you say he's had a lot of money thrown his way, and he has a car. Does he work? Who pays for his car and insurance? Does he really need a car at college? If you have been footing the bill for these things, and throwing good money after bad at him, it doesn't sound like you have been helping him learn to be responsible, and inconsistent.

At the end of the day, do you want to punish him, or do you want to help him learn from his mistakes and become more responsible with money?
posted by inertia at 11:18 AM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Needing to pay $500 on your own is a pretty good lesson to not have future library fines, parking tickets, and other avoidable expenses. Heck, just losing 1 book and having to pay a $100 to my university's library was a big enough lesson to me.

It's only late June. He definitely has enough time during the rest of summer to work and pay this off before classes start.
posted by astapasta24 at 11:19 AM on June 25, 2012

Another parent here to say you're doing the right thing if you make him pay. Our 15 year old daughter got a phone bill about the same amount. We let her keep her monthly allowance, but she paid everything back with baby sitting. That was a whole lot of baby sitting, let me tell you that. But we made our point and in the end she felt sort of relieved that we took her seriously by appealing to her responsibility.
posted by ouke at 11:23 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

(One thing vis-a-vis the "get a job" thing - what if he literally can't get a job? We're in a crisis economy and I know people who can't get hired as cashiers, as fast food workers, etc. People for whom there is no temp work, no yard work. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say "apply for jobs at [X] level of intensity until you get a job" but it's a bit risky to make the whole thing contingent on work in the middle of a depression.)
posted by Frowner at 11:23 AM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]

Did he have the means to pay the original fines? I mean, I agree that he shouldn't have incurred the fines in the first place, especially the library ones, but fines do tend to escalate quickly and cruelly. And if he doesn't get out from these, then he's going to be burdened with literally thousands of dollars on extra fees? This seems like the time to help your kid not have his life derail, and then lord it over him for a few years.
posted by Garm at 11:24 AM on June 25, 2012

I did almost exactly this while in college five years ago (in India). I got so freaked out about not returning a library book that I avoided all the repeated calls to pay my fines until it was graduation time, at which point my parents bailed me out by paying the extremely large fine I had accumulated. It was not quite as large as $500, but comparable (and almost astronomically large by Indian standards). At this point I had completed all requirements for graduation, and had a place at an Ivy League university for graduate school lined up, with a full fellowship. Yet it could be argued that I was irresponsible about money -- I had never had to spend any of my own and didn't really know the value of it.

But would it have been the right decision for my parents to withhold that money and delay my graduation and entry into grad school for that tiny amount of money? I really don't think so. I learned my lesson just from the embarrassment of having to explain to the librarians why I'd been avoiding them and how exactly I'd racked up this enormous fine. It was cathartic to finally have this enormous sum taken care of, and it also taught me that it's pointless to try to avoid these unpleasant things -- eventually you have to 'fess up that you lost the book, you can't keep hiding for ever. Lend him the money, explain what a difficult decision it was for you, and figure out how he'll pay you back. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. This is not the hill you want to die on.
posted by peacheater at 11:24 AM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]

Do you celebrate any gift giving holidays - birthday, christmas, etc? If so, then just say "Happy birthday - here's your 20th-25th birthday present!" And then STICK TO IT. Point #2 seems to be the best reason to bail him out. Point #3 shouldn't happen.
posted by blaneyphoto at 11:28 AM on June 25, 2012 [6 favorites]

You pay the fines and he works it off over the summer; $500 isn't an onerous sum for a summer job. Instead of teaching him the lesson that his parents can cut him off at any time, you can teach him about debt, which I would say is the more-useful lesson of the two.
posted by rhizome at 11:28 AM on June 25, 2012

He can pump gas, flip burgers, wait tables, mow lawns, and/or or whatever else is necessary to earn $500.

What is this, 1962? Anyhow, since all these jobs are more likely to be filled by people who desperately need these jobs to get by, maybe he could do some sort of work around your home to work off the money. Something labor intensive that needs done but keeps getting put off?
posted by hermitosis at 11:29 AM on June 25, 2012 [12 favorites]

When I was at college, my University offered interest-free emergency loans of up to $500 for 30 days. Your son's college may do something similar.
posted by Sunburnt at 11:30 AM on June 25, 2012

If you give him a loan and make him pay it off, please only pay him minimum wage (which, if he doesn't get his life in order, will be what he's making).
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:33 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

You aren't being too hard on him. But I don't think you should let him suffer all those consequences over $500. HOWEVER, he does need to pay you back, and you should not let him worm out of that.

I doubt that writing up any kind of contract is going to work, unless it involves holding hostage stuff that he will absolutely, 100% want back. So yes, his car, or anything along those lines. If you don't make it clear that he will never regain access to real things that he really wants, he will bail on you.

I also don't think you should give him a list of chores to do, to pay off his debt to you. They won't get done, and the money will already be gone.
posted by Coatlicue at 11:33 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

It's only late June. He definitely has enough time during the rest of summer to work and pay this off before classes start.

Let's say it took him three weeks to even find a job. That's not inconceivable -- it might not even be enough time, even if he's really looking. The hiring process can move very slowly. That puts him in mid-July territory.

When you start a job, you usually don't receive your first paycheck for the first 2-3 weeks. That edges us into early/mid August before he's even seen a dime for his efforts. By then the Fall semester is starting.
posted by hermitosis at 11:33 AM on June 25, 2012

This is entirely his responsibility, and you should not bail him out. He needs to take on the task of figuring out how to pay off the fines on his own. If he is unable to start the semester on time because of it, that is, again, his fault, and his responsibility to rectify.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 11:34 AM on June 25, 2012

2) He would lose a very large tuition discount he gets currently, which he only gets while he's registered for consecutive years;
3) He would need to move home during the semester or year he takes out, and would likely not be the happiest of campers during that time, due to our perceived meanness.

Who currently pays his tuition? Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. It sounds like this could have worse consequences for you than the $500.00 spent to fix it if you don't get him current.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:34 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

If he honestly thinks you will bail him out (you say he has a past history of this) every time he falls - don't pay it and let him drop out of college until he gets his act together. It's time for tough love. He has to see that his actions have consequences and you cannot be there to pick up his pieces from now on.

If you think that he incurred these debts from pure ignorance and can be shown the light with the pawn shop love other posters used above, then pay and do that. Maybe having some toys taken from him will show him that it's time to grow up and know that money actually means something.

In my household, money was a very precious commodity. I didn't pay my kids' tuition, it all came from scholarships and grants. If they fucked it up, that was on them. We just didn't have the money to bail them out. $500 for late fees and parking tickets? Too bad so sad, tell your story walking 'cause I can't help you there. You shoulda taken care of it before it got so bad. That's the way it is when there's no one to bail you out.
posted by patheral at 11:35 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

maybe he could do some sort of work around your home to work off the money. Something labor intensive that needs done but keeps getting put off?

This is an excellent idea. Pay his fines, but have him work the sum off by doing stuff around the house - mow the lawn, clean the toilet, paint the walls, change the light-bulbs, babysit any younger siblings, walk the dog, scoop the cat box - you get the idea.

And, again, do have a talk with him about budgeting. Maybe show him what your (you and your spouse's) income and bills are. I think parents do their kids a HUGE disservice by treating family finances as an adults-only matter. How much do you make an hour? How does that add up? Now, where does the money go and why? How does interest add up if one fails to pay one's parking tickets or credit-card bills? This could be a real "come to Jesus" moment for him and make him realize how the adult world of finances works.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:36 AM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Do you live somewhere where it is legal for him to sell his blood or plasma? I used to do that when I was short of money in college.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:37 AM on June 25, 2012

I love the idea of you being his pawn shop. He has to hand over his guitar/tv/electronics/iPhone/whatever as a guarantee that he pays you back. That way everyone wins - he gets to continue with his education, and you get assurance that you'll get your money back. You just have to seriously stick to your guns about him not getting his things back until the debt is fully paid.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 11:38 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

Unless you're absolutely loaded with money, surely he's eligible for student loans? $500 extra in loans won't kill him.
posted by pdq at 11:42 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

I'm with the folks who think that the consequences here are disproportionate to the deed, even if he has been irresponsible in the past. I would plan to loan him the money to pay the fine, if need be, but would seriously ride herd on him to come up with as close to the full amount as possible.

In addition to taking extra work hours, he could sell back some of his books, gather stuff around your house and sell it on Amazon or eBay, he could sell his mp3 player, sell his xbox, do favors for friends for cash (drive them to the beach, etc.), scrounge for recycling and bottle deposits, clean garages, haul stuff to the dump, proofread people's resumes and cover letters for $.50 per page, etc. There are always ways (many of them painful and tediously unfun) to scrounge up a small bit of cash and $500 is a doable amount over a summer.
posted by skye.dancer at 11:46 AM on June 25, 2012

I don't think it's worth him losing his tuition discounts.

But, I was that kid and it took me a really long time to stop being that kid, and I probably should have had consequences at that point in my life to stop me being that kid so much.

Loan him the money. Set very rigid requirements about paying it back. Besides those requirements, I think you should see if you can pin a requirement that he take some sort of personal finance class (call your bank, call your local community center, look online, find a workbook) to it as well.

I was bad with money and weird about money, and one of my few real regrets is that I took Algebra II while all my non-Honors-track friends took Consumer Economics and learned how to budget, balance a checkbook, compare costs over time. I was kind of afraid of money and took a real la-la-la-not-paying-attention attitude, for a very very long time (and there were depression issues involved too). And I don't think it was something my parents could have taught me (I mean, for me it should have started when I was like 8, but my parents kept me really ignorant about money for their own reasons) that late in my life. Whenever I had to ask for money because I was a dipshit, I ended up with so many shame issues about it that just thinking about paying it back made me feel awful. Maybe your son isn't having that problem, but maybe he is and this can be a point where you can help him in both an immediate and long-term way.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:50 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

I came in here to say what Frowner and cortex said. If it weren't for that line in your list of consequences, I would say go for it, make him figure it out for himself, but in light of the extent to which that higher tuition is likely to have severe financial consequences for him long into his adult life, I just can't think of any way to justify that as a means of teaching him a lesson. However, it doesn't seem wrong to make him aware of that as a means of encouraging him to find a way to contribute some or all of that money himself.
posted by invitapriore at 11:50 AM on June 25, 2012

(One thing vis-a-vis the "get a job" thing - what if he literally can't get a job? ... I think it's perfectly reasonable to say "apply for jobs at [X] level of intensity until you get a job" but it's a bit risky to make the whole thing contingent on work in the middle of a depression.

I think it would be totally okay to put the fear of God into your kid, and have him out there looking and looking for work all summer. If he doesn't ever find a job, and you're confident that he's done yeoman's work trying to get one, you can still pay the fees for him and have him get some kind of a job on-campus next semester to pay you back.
posted by gauche at 11:51 AM on June 25, 2012

I think you should sit down with him and make a plan for how he's going to get through college and what levels of support he can expect from you to do so. And then front him the $500 if he doesn't have it by the deadline, with a plan for him paying it back, and stick to whatever package of assistance you've agreed on. Any money he needs on top of that, he needs to earn or if it comes to that, borrow on his own hook.

3) He would need to move home during the semester or year he takes out, and would likely not be the happiest of campers during that time, due to our perceived meanness.

This sounds like a truly horrible idea for you and for him. Expensive too: is there any way it won't cost you $500 to have him there?

I'm not going to say I think you're being mean or not, because the picture you present here is not terribly clear. It sounds to me like you've waffled on boundaries for a long time, and it's more important to set some going forward than to make him drop out over this one thing.

And also, my opinion would be different if he's a terrible student.
posted by BibiRose at 11:51 AM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Is this maybe a ploy on his part to "painlessly" drop out of college? It could be well thought out on his part, or maybe even subconscious, but if he knows/suspects that you will not pay this bill, and that it means his subsequent education is vastly more expensive, he's now got a very good reason not to go back. I'd sit him down for a serious talk about his academic future.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:51 AM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]

Expensive too: is there any way it won't cost you $500 to have him there?

Yeah, exactly. A teenage guy is going to eat that much in groceries in two weeks!
posted by elizardbits at 11:52 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

How much do you have invested in this already?
If you thousands of dollars invested in the college already, don't burn that for a $500 fine.

Pay the fine - and the next time he asks for money, say no. then say no again, until he pays you back the $500
posted by Flood at 11:57 AM on June 25, 2012

I think the best course hinges on whether it would be a good idea, for "finding himself" reasons, for him to take a few years off college.
posted by amtho at 11:58 AM on June 25, 2012

I don't think you're being mean; I was expected to pay as much as I could shoulder while going to school and that was more than I wanted to at the time, for certain. Twenty years later I'm glad for the experience.

I don't think you're unreasonable for wanting to be even-handed either; there was inequity between how my parents handled supporting me and supporting my brother. In hindsight they were completely right - they asked of us what was appropriate and what we could handle and what was best for us. But the inequality at the time really burned my ass and I think sometimes they feel bad about it NOW. (Which they shouldn't, in case I wasn't clear)

But given the financial repercussions here I don't think holding out on it is the smart thing. Not only the tuition discount but there's the cost of deferring entering the workforce another semester. That's 3-5 months of lost wages. If it's the right thing for him growth-wise then it's worth it, but unless you really think there's learning potential here and not at some other point then I wouldn't take a notably financial hit on this.

You need to find some other way to make it hurt. I like the pawnshop idea okay. Is there some other menial crap you can saddle him with over the summer? Someone upstream identified this as $70 a week worth of work. Got 4 neighbors who need lawns mowed every week? Someplace you support that he can volunteer?
posted by phearlez at 12:02 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

Don't pay it. I had a friend in college who was similarly careless and irresponsible. He also accumulated $500+ in parking tickets, most of which were avoidable. His parents paid the tickets. So my friend never learned anything about personal responsibility.

Sometime later, this same friend and I got into a big argument because he wanted to drive home one night from a party when he was clearly too intoxicated to drive. He started getting confrontational with me, and since he's twice my size I let him go, but not without saying two words: personal responsibility.

A month later he got his second DUI. No more parking tickets. No more car. A funny thing happened afterwards. His behavior started improving!

$500 in parking tickets is no big deal. Your son needs to owe up to his stupidity and lack of consideration. If he loses has to sit out a semester and loses his discount, that's his problem.

Stop coddling him.
posted by Jurbano at 12:04 PM on June 25, 2012

Mod note: From the OP:

1) The amount is due immediately. Payment plans are possible, but registering for classes is not possible til it's paid.
2) There is no option for working at home at the moment - we are hundreds of miles apart in terms of location - but this is his choice - he could come home for the summer and work here.
3) His grades are so-so.
4) @kmennie: No way do I think this is amusing: he oscillates between totally understanding our issues on this (he actually hasn't asked us to lend / give him the money), and being furious with the world - us, his bank (they keep charging him overdraft fees), his college (the bursar never calls back, and is never there), etc.
5) He is an excellent worker when he has a job - he had a part-time on-campus job, and did so well that he does (apparently) have the option of a college-based job lasting the year, which will pay for his tuition in full (as in tuition waived). However, we have seen nothing in writing, and he says he won't know about it until the semester starts.
6) He might lose the tuition discount - but could also re-enroll at a cheaper college in the future, which would claw this back.
7) This is not intended to be a punishment - quite the reverse - if he were to instead get a job for the year, and planned out his remaining two years, he would financially be in a much better state.
8) He could be at home this summer, but instead he's opted to couch-surf in his college town - it's not a personal issue with us, but he wants to be where his friends are. We have highlighted that he needs to be paying his way unless he's at home. He has an unrealistic concept of his earning power, and has wasted several weeks getting a job as a result.
9) He has stuff and skills he could sell. He's often in demand to repair computers and stuff, but doesn't seem to be making an effort in this area.
10) We've done the Christmas presents / Birthday presents to clear debts thing. All used up for a year or two.
As an aside, given the friends and environment he's fallen into, we'd just as soon he moved college, but that's not the driver.

posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:07 PM on June 25, 2012

While I don't think you're being mean by any stretch of the imagination, the tuition discount is worth paying the $500 now and losing a semester mid-stream could have far-reaching disproportionate consequences. Since you don't believe he will pay you back, before you pay it, figure out some sort of tangible and immediate way to be reimbursed. The pawn shop idea or chores/services for you are both great, but is there an expense you currently pay for him that you could reduce or drop completely until the $500 has been covered, like a monthly cellphone bill or gas money? This will either motivate him to find a way to earn the money on his own or make up the gap in your budget. If you go this route, emphasize this is the very last time you will bail him out for this type of behavior and stick to it. You sound like great parents and whatever you do will probably be the right decision. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 12:14 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

Cheaper college = might not be an equivalent college with similar enough degree program to transfer all credits equally.

If he's choosing to couch surf with his friends, sounds like he can turn over his car to you until he pays the $500 back (and keeping the relevant insurance on it as he has been - he cannot let it slack because he doesn't have it, he still has to pay it), my two cents.
posted by tilde at 12:21 PM on June 25, 2012

Based on your clarification, OP, and after reading many of the comments that preceded it, I would reiterate that I don't see any reasonable formulation of this circumstance that places blame or fault at your feet.

I don't know how seriously you meant, "We also know if we pay it, we're using money we don't have," but it seems like a lot of other commenters either didn't read that part or else don't believe it. I also think your clarification exhibits a broader perspective than many commenters have shown; the available options do not seem limited to, "Parents pay $500, or else Student owes thousands."

I assume you have talked with your son about various income sources, selling possessions, moving to a cheaper college, etc. If not, it's important that you do so. He should have a clear understanding of the situation and all the different doorways. If previous conversations haven't clicked, then you might try some diplomatic version of this framing: "Here is how your mom and I spend our weekdays. Here are the bills we are juggling, between ourselves and your brothers/sisters in college and you. So you owe a $500 bill. How are you spending your weekdays?"
posted by cribcage at 12:34 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

his college (the bursar never calls back, and is never there), etc.

In my experience, the bursar's office at any college is like a totally Kafkaesque hell of red-tape and busy signals. This might not be as irrational as you think.

From the sound of it, it seems you really do want him to just switch schools--the money is simply a way to facilitate this change. I really think you should let that go. With a tuition discount and a job where he might get his tuition waived on the line, I think it would be really foolish to derail his college plans. You might not be thinking of it that way, but it would be punitive, and again, disproportionately so. If he's a so-so student, an opportunity to have tuition waived is huge. And honestly? Once he takes that year off it might take him a lot longer to return to his studies than you think, particularly if he's a solid worker but so-so student.

If he's doing okay in school and making steady progress toward his degree, I really feel you should help him with this, then let him pay it back to you.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:35 PM on June 25, 2012 [7 favorites]

Don't pay it.


Learning responsibility trumps everything else. He did this to himself. If you bail him out now there will always be something else he will need to be rescued from.


I would also recommend you insist he take Dave Ramsay's Financial Peace University course.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:45 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

I was pretty irresponsible with money in college. I had a job and got good grades but I did this kind of thing more than once (fines, overdrafts, holds, etc). I wasn't a spoiled brat; I was just a dummy about money and I was 18 and dumb in general. I thank my lucky stars everyday that I had parents who helped me out when I needed it. Of course they were really unhappy with me at the time and we had an incident almost exactly like this one, but I just feel waves of relief every time I realized they really helped me out when I needed them. Even when I was in a jam of my own making, they helped me. I am so grateful. I've been supporting myself since I was 20.
posted by Katine at 12:50 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

College is WAY more important than a $500 fine.

I'm disappointed you don't think working with your son to resolve this problem is as important as "drawing a line, or whatever.

It's not that you're being "mean" it's that you are modeling poor parenting and coping skills.

I think your son needs guidance and help, not threats, stress, and misplaced anger.

There is a middle ground. Find it so that he can keep the tuition discount and finish college.

$500 is NOT the hill you want to die on. Your proposed solution is wasteful and shortsighted. Find the middle ground.
posted by jbenben at 12:52 PM on June 25, 2012 [9 favorites]

(he actually hasn't asked us to lend / give him the money)

Whoa, this is pretty key. Do you think he hasn't asked because he's waiting for you to offer? Because unless you suspect manipulative behaviour, his willingness to deal with this situation by himself should be a big mark in his favour.

If you are hundreds of miles apart, surely his travel from college to your home would cost close to $500? I agree with the people who say that loss of a tuition discount (and possible tuition waiver?!) is way too big a consequence. Transferring schools is not that easy--I didn't transfer myself, but I don't know anyone who transferred and graduated on time. Longer in college = more money spent, whether he winds up at a cheaper school or not.

You're not close by, but if you can arrange to take something of his (the pawn or car key arrangement mentioned above) until he pays back the money, that seems like a better lesson to me.
posted by snorkmaiden at 1:02 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

No way do I think this is amusing: he oscillates between totally understanding our issues on this (he actually hasn't asked us to lend / give him the money)

No, I didn't suggest you found the $500 issue amusing. It was that there seems to be a bit of a snigger in re.

would likely not be the happiest of campers during that time, due to our perceived meanness

..."due to our perceived meanness" not being the most empathetic, taking-this-seriously, I-respect-his-views way to phrase that. Possibly (probably?) you are stressed and are not genuinely flip about this and I am totally misreading. But, as is, it sounds like your relationship with your kid is based on a bit of mutual animosity, and it is difficult to avoid wondering if you have really been "mean" in the past, and if your son wouldn't be more responsible, more respectful, with the financial issues if more respect was not offered to him. I think it's unfortunate that the relationship has disintegrated to the point where your kid would be unhappy living with you.

I wasn't a spoiled brat; I was just a dummy about money and I was 18 and dumb in general and I think your son needs guidance and help, not threats, stress, and misplaced anger are good things to pay attention to; that sort of longer-term thinking will be more useful for everybody than knee-jerks about "teaching a lesson" &c. There's more at stake here than $500.
posted by kmennie at 1:02 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

This is the reason I think you should pay it. I know it seems like you're enabling him (and you are!) but it sounds like he will become financially and academically screwed over $500. Have you been letting a lot of things slide and then finally snapped and decided that this is the line in the sand you needed to draw?

This. A thousand times over. Kids have stupid rabbit brains and someday they do have to grow up, but you have to think of yourself, here. I was a problem child with money problems, and my dad didn't pay a $250 credit card fee that went to collections when I was in college. This caused me to not be able to get other credit and to have a terrible credit score. For the next ten years of his life he had to deal with the consequences of my crap credit, not me. He had to co-sign for everything under the sun. Luckily for him, I WAS responsible when he co-signed, so he didn't get screwed. But his choice was basically to let me live under a bridge or co-sign for apartments, unsubsidized loans, everything.

This isn't your exact situation, but this incident changed his attitude about helping his kids with things. When he realized he was putting himself through years of irritation over $250, he decided that he'd screwed himself over. I have a mental illness, and he provides support that a) isn't uncomfortable to him or b) will help him in the long run. So, for instance, he pays my car insurance because he knows I can't afford it on disability. He does this not to enable me; he does it so he doesn't have to drive me around to appointments, the grocery store, etc.

If you don't do something about this, you have to think of the consequences to yourself. Do you want him living at home over $500? Will the loss of his tuition discount blow back on you in some way? Is there something else you can do to pay the $500 but still have consequences? No X-Mas/birthday for a year or two, for instance, unless he ponies up the loan.

Lines in the sand have two sides. You need to make sure you aren't shitting on your side of the line in an attempt to force the person on the other side to clean their own shit up.
posted by xyzzy at 1:09 PM on June 25, 2012 [7 favorites]

Even given your clarifications/additions, I really think not paying this fine will lead to out-sized consequences for your son in terms of potentially setting him back a semester to a year in his college education and losing so much in tuition discounts. Frankly, I think your relationship with your son and your family life in general will turn into a huge mess if he has to come back home for a semester because of this $500 fine, not to mention you'll be spending far more than that on his expenses if he does move back home. What do you imagine he'll be doing if he has to move back home for a semester to a year? Ideally, he'd get a job. But what kind of job will he be able to find in this economy, with his level of education and skills? How long will it take him to find it? How will he feel about all of this? Because if he hates it and hates you, well, it's gonna be a long year, and the damage done to your relationship might not be worth it. It really seems like a recipe for resentment and anger to me.

Even if, as you say, he'll be in a financially better state if he takes a year off and transfers to a different school, you need to consider that the sheer lost momentum will have a big impact on his college education. And if he transfers, there's a whole mess of bureaucracy involved in figuring out what credits will transfer over, and when inevitably some of those credits don't transfer over and he has new requirements to meet at the new college, he'll have to stay for an extra semester or year to make up for it. There are a lot of people who take this kind of break ostensibly to save up money for the rest of their college education, and end up never returning to school when Life Happens or when the financial, social, and academic barriers to re-entering college just get too high.

You say he hasn't actually asked you for the money yet. Is this because he's trying to handle it himself, or because he's just waiting for you to give in and pay it? Is he not fully aware of the consequences? I wouldn't pay the fine until/unless he asks, and would institute strict rules on repaying the loan, but you all need to be aware that there's way more on the line than $500 here. If he drops out because of this fine, the impact is potentially huge in time, money, and education prospects.
posted by yasaman at 1:17 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

I am a little confused - if he hasn't asked you to pay it, what does he expect will happen? Is he planning to take a semester off, or does he think it will magically all work out? If he's talking about a job that he 'will know about when semester starts' it sounds like he thinks he'll be back at college for the semester. Given that he's currently couch surfing away from home, does he even agree that he'd need to move home if he wasn't enrolled? Have you guys discussed all the options, or are you just outlining what you think?

if he were to instead get a job for the year, and planned out his remaining two years, he would financially be in a much better state.
This seems optimistic. What if he actually got a job and decided never to go back to college, because he liked the increased living standards? What if he got a job and credit cards and built up thousands in debt? What if he didn't get a job at all? What if he gets a job, gets back to the same college (because you haven't given any reason he wants to transfer), no longer has the college job to forgive tuition or the scholarship to reduce it - how much more does he have in student loans now?


(If he is hundreds of miles away, I don't see a realistic way for him to turn over the car at all - he's going to drive it down there and then hitchhike back, or what?)
posted by jacalata at 1:27 PM on June 25, 2012

I don't necessarily agree with the above posters. We've got a kid who could have come home and earned money for school, or could have found work where he is, but instead is lolling around all summer, with no job, couch surfing.

I blew my University scholarship, Mommy and Daddy scholarship and my first three years in University, because I was all about the Par-TAY! After bringing home yet another straight C report card, my folks cut it off. Clearly I wasn't really into school and they weren't going to pay for the ride anymore.

I went out, got a full time job, and after a year or so, re-enrolled and had my employer pay for the rest of my degree. Did I treat the whole thing differently? OH HELLS YEAH!

Did it take something drastic for me to snap to, and pay attention? Yes. Was it ultimately good? Yes. Did the world end because I dropped out of college, got a job and became responsible for myself when I was 20. Clearly not.

Given the additional information, especially the part where the grades aren't all that great. I'd let him figure out how to get $500 on his own.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, he can still attend school, he just can't register for classes. So that means all the good classes will be full, and he'll have to take something not so cool, not that if he doesn't pay instantly that he won't be able to attend in the fall, right?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:32 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

if he were to instead get a job for the year, and planned out his remaining two years, he would financially be in a much better state.

I think this isn't as realistic as you think it is. If where he lives is anything like here, current students get into classes that new students can't. Breaking the momentum is pretty dangerous, even if you're 100% adult, pro-active, etc etc which I wasn't until I was about 30, to tell the truth.

Work with him on this and see what he wants from you. You sound like you don't take his concerns or worldview seriously at all, but I'm hoping it's just a defense mechanism in this post because you're (understandably) frustrated. Asking him what he thinks would work best and would be fair to all of you would be a good start.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:33 PM on June 25, 2012 [7 favorites]

and he'll have to take something not so cool,

Again, your region may vary, but around here, it's not that the cool classes are full, it's that the ones required to get your degree are full. College is a big, fat, hairy mess these days, unlike the good old days when I went (1990s). Even the very serious, well-connected, and dedicated young folks in my life are having a hell of a time getting their required credits.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:35 PM on June 25, 2012 [6 favorites]

5) He is an excellent worker when he has a job - he had a part-time on-campus job, and did so well that he does (apparently) have the option of a college-based job lasting the year, which will pay for his tuition in full (as in tuition waived). However, we have seen nothing in writing, and he says he won't know about it until the semester starts.

This prospect would be a lot to throw away, as would the prospect of him being done-- done!-- in two years. Nothing you've said makes it sound like he's not on that track. As others have said, if he interrupts college it is by no means as certain.

Don't risk it. Tell him you'll help in x, y and z ways and get him through school with a decent degree now.
posted by BibiRose at 1:41 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, he can still attend school, he just can't register for classes.

I don't know where the son is attending, but my experience is that can't register for classes means just that. Doesn't matter if they are the fun or required classes, it means no classes. And if you don't register within a certain period, your enrollment at the institution is in jeopardy.

Either I missed it or it didn't get answered. If the parents are paying for their son's tuition and the tuition is about to get jacked up over this $500 you're punishing yourselves, too. If he's paying for school and hasn't even asked you to help, then let him deal with it.
posted by asciident at 2:03 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

You know what's mean?

Enabling your kid, so that he never becomes financially responsible.

There are many, many kids who got no support (as in, zero) after age 18, and they learned to be financially responsible because they knew nobody would bail them out.

You seem to be way too worried about what your kid perceives as meanness.
posted by yarly at 2:24 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Now, I come from a background where the academic future of the children are viewed as a cooperative effort, with the trade off being the amount of freedom you get depending on how responsible you are. Totally responsible? You show up to college, checks get signed, summer jobs get arranged, and after 4 years later, you send your graduation invitations to your parents. Less responsible? Then parents have to see your grades every semester, a couple semesters at community college might be warranted under home supervision, and a careful monitoring of the finances are performed.

Now, there's another strain of parenting that is usually noticed when the kid is making some decisions about where and what to study that the parents don't necessarily respect, and the kid probably isn't a 100% responsible grown up, anyway, and after a few screwups that the parent let slide, things come to a head over a minor issue, and the parents have the opportunity to watch all of these things blow up out of proportion to the actual problem so the parents can say, "my son thought he was so clever, but I sure showed HIM!"

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though you're in the right here, there are alternatives to turning this into The Great Library Fine Incident of 2012 that results in some unfixable consequences. I realize that there may be some satisfaction in having tangible evidence of your child being as big of a fuckup as you think he is, but this isn't like refusing to rescue him in a dispute with his cell phone company or forcing him to face up to the consequences of academic dishonesty.

Given the update, it sounds like you really want this bill to "do the parenting for you." Ie, that instead of working out some negotiated settlement with you son that allows him to complete school on time, you'd just as soon he drop out and enroll in a cheaper school or shoulder the burden of increased debt because you don't want to deal with his need to be parented anymore. I am not unsympathetic, but it might help to unpack what you think is better for him and what is part of your resentment and irritation at his blasé attitude.
posted by deanc at 2:30 PM on June 25, 2012 [6 favorites]

I'll admit I'm a little mystified by this question. Because you are still willing to let him stay with you if he fails to pay it, isn't the question you are asking more along the lines of "is it worth making everyone miserable for a semester to teach my kid a lesson?" The money's a wash... you'll spend near that in added expenses having him home, almost certainly. You're not mean for not paying it, but you would be pretty foolish -- unless you're willing to take it all the way and toss that kid out on his own completely, what kind of lesson are you actually hoping to teach him?

Me, if I could throw $500 at a potentially serious problem like this and have it go away, I'd do it and be thanking my lucky stars it was so simple. Most problems are far worse to deal with, just like this one will be if you make it so.

I guess if you're really that torn over it, you could just estimate what extra cost you'd incur having him home, and let the cold numbers make the call... cheaper option wins.
posted by Pufferish at 2:32 PM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]

This is easy. Pay it and tell him that Christmas came early this year. $500 is about what my parents spend on me for Christmas. YMMV of course. If you don't normally spend that much on Christmas presents, then make it a Christmas/bday gift.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 3:04 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

I went to a school that was much more expensive than my parents were prepared for (and had agreed to). And, I didn't do well because I wasn't really mature enough. I withdrew.

My story is different than your son's, but here's what I would like to share: I had no idea, despite being told every day of my life, how important that degree was going to be. I returned to school and finished as an adult, while holding a full-time job and all the attendant adult responsibilities, but it was hard. If my parents could have removed an obstacle that would have allowed me to finish with my age peers (like you are in the position to do), it would not have made a lot of difference to me at the time (immature), but it would have made a world of difference between the time I withdrew and the time I finished.

I worry that for the lack of $500, your son will withdraw and then fall into adult life, and struggle to return and struggle more to finish. While maybe a significant sum, it's just not that much money in the bigger scheme of things.

You said, "we'd just as soon he moved college, but that's not the driver" and I believe that you believe that. But look back at your points 1-10. Numbers 2, 6, 7, and 8 mention some form of leaving school, changing schools, and returning home.

If he does campus work-study, he's making minimum wage, right? How about an interest-free payday loan from you parents to him, for the first month's wages?
posted by Houstonian at 3:10 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Mod note: From the OP:

Thanks for all the feedback. It has all been really useful, whichever side of the fence you've come down on.
You shouldn't read into any of this that there's a bad relationship between us - far from it. But there has been a careless attitude to money: we've had to pick up unpaid student loan payments, bail him out on his cellphone bill (iPhone when a basic phone will do), address yet another speeding ticket, pay for extra trips home and back, etc.
We don't want our son to fail - we want him to succeed. It's just a question of the best approach.
Thanks for your input.

posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:10 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

Oh man, I'm on both sides! My parents did this to me and I ended up dropping out of college because it was (or seemed, I'm still not totally sure) too expensive to pay for it myself, and if I had to get a job ANYWAY, I might as well get a full time one. Am I more responsible now? HELL YES. Did my parents pay for my much-younger sister's college? HELL YES.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 4:00 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Is the $500 figure firm, or can some of the punitive fines be waived? I know you said a payment plan can be arranged, but have you asked if you can just pay the original fine and be done with it?
posted by Jazz Hands at 4:01 PM on June 25, 2012

Well, if you've already signed for & are cosigner on his loans, you're going to be nailing or screwed a long time.

I'm not a fan of excessive cut off at age 18 or constant bailing either.

Given all the info the op has provided over three posts:

"Son, you keep bringing up the problem you made for yourself as if you expect us to bail you out. Do you have a plan or are you waiting for us to volunteer to wipe your nose again?

"If you expect us to pay it, you need to spell it out in written form, along with payback date & plan & get it to us no later than tomorrow.

"Once we agree on terms, they are set. Until this is paid back to us, there will be no further loans from us, small or cosigned."

If he has a plan other than you, say you're glad he is working it out because he is beyond the reasonable amount of help youre expecting to provide for the foreseeable future.

If you are a guarantor on his loans he can screw your credit pretty easily. It's likely in your best interest for him to not get kicked out of school, likely forever, over this. But not the next thing, either. Stop saving him.

Personal stats: 34 credit hours over 20 years, 12 paid for by parents, the rest by me, most not xfer able to any local college, mostly just couldn't work & go to school or go to school without working.

Coulda been worse; just hard knocks & a couple of years of ugly credit since I didn't take student loans and tried to make it on credit cards.
posted by tilde at 4:18 PM on June 25, 2012

Argh you're going to be bailing or screwed. Stoopid autocorrect
posted by tilde at 4:20 PM on June 25, 2012

yarly wrote: There are many, many kids who got no support (as in, zero) after age 18, and they learned to be financially responsible because they knew nobody would bail them out.

And there are many, many kids who got no support (as in, zero) after age 18 and never learned to be financially responsible because it's much like being thrown into a lake without a life jacket and without the benefit of previous swimming lessons.

Hell, some of us got cut off long before 18 and still are shit at handling money.

OP, you're in a sticky situation. If you don't have the money you don't have the money. If you do have the money, you can get it back out of his school job. Assistantships I've seen involve a small paycheck in addition to waived tuition.

Also, suggest that he negotiate on the fine. And future traffic tickets. These things are almost always negotiable if you ask the person responsible. I have never paid a full traffic fine. Usually I pay 25-50% of the going rate and get extra time to pay. (Not that I've had that many, four in 15 years of driving, but still) It is often a pain in the butt trying to get in contact with the right person, but it is possible.
posted by wierdo at 4:31 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Op, I feel like you might be buying into a kind of narrative and dichotomy that doesn't necessarily have to exist, namely: 1) Pay the fine, coddled son never learns discipline, parties with his friends, hits you up for money next semester, spiralling story of no responsibility and terrible prospects, vs 2) Don't pay the fine, son shifts college, straightens up with concordant flying right, learns the value of money, good grades, great job, ends up with a great wife and kids, and owns a newspaper etc.

I think, as a parent, the enormity of what you're doing weighs on you, and you fall into practice of these hypotheticals, and what the innocuous splotch you're growing in the petri dish that is your child could morph into given the right conditions - are you growing the penicillin or the anthrax?

But both those scenarios - or at least the way you're thinking about them - are invested far more into the unknowable, inchoate future, than the actual reality of who you are, you're son is, and what you're doing.

In this respect, I kind of feel like the money - irritating as it is - is kind of by-the-by. Rather than focus on the unknowable results of what paying vs not paying could be, I would ask yourself instead, "what tools am I giving my son with which to face challenges in life?", "How am I supporting my son make the best decisions in all situations (i.e. with the money or without the money)? How can I do my best - acknowledging horses and water and drinking and all that - to ensure my son has the tools both metaphysical and logistical to make informed decisions about his life?"

I kind of feel like focusing on the money is eliding some of that, for you and your son. When you're young and stupid (at least, when I was young and stupid), some decisions bring with them a crippling anxiety and inertia, and you might feel - wholly incorrectly - that were were no or very few options for dealing with challenges. It's not true, but you don't have the wherewithal to understand that.

Paying the money won't necessarily give him those tools, and neither will withholding it. The money is a distraction; you can maximise the chances of what you want (and do you truly want a mature capable adult, or do you want him to change college and move home? Cause those are pretty different.) by being calm, non-judgmental, and using open and honest communication. How you are concerned for the welfare of your son and what you can do to help that and enable good choice from him beyond and aside from being a chequebook.

Personally, I'd probably pay it, but he hasn't asked you so maybe he's taking steps to resolve it. Ask him if he is, and if he wants/needs to discuss his options with you. Don't be judgmental.

PS Also, if you had to pay for him to fly home to see you, that is totally a fair enough thing. I blew frigging hundreds of dollars when I was at university flying home to see my parents which also interfered with my work hours and sometimes came at the expense of buying medicine/food/etc simply because they expected it. I don't know anything about your son, but I think when people are financially comfortable it can be difficult to understand what it means to have no money to speak of and how it dominates every choice you make etc. When you have no spending money whatsoever it can be very tough.
posted by smoke at 5:37 PM on June 25, 2012 [8 favorites]

I'm going to recommend you pay this $500, but with caveats:
1. He gets a summer job AND he works during the school year (and he can send you copies of his pay stubs to prove he's employed).
2. Any tickets he incurs are his responsibility, not yours --- he's got to be what, age 20? His tickets, his problem.
3. Any future school fines ditto: he incurs them, he pays.
4. If you can pawn anything he's left in your home, do so.
5. Your paying this $500 covers ALL his birthday, Christmas etc. presents for the next five years.
6. All car repairs, phone bills, credit cards: his problem. His debt, he pays.
7. No more 'extra' trips home, unless he pays for them himself.
8. Make it clear that this is his last chance --- let him know now that if this comes up again next year, your only response will be to ask him what HE is going to do about it, YOU WILL NOT PAY ANYTHING ELSE, including for his 4th year of college.

Basically, one last salvaging, then cut him off.
posted by easily confused at 7:10 PM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]

Based on your clarification and noting that he's a so-so student, don't bother paying it. Time for him to grow up.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:34 PM on June 25, 2012

Regarding the comments some people are making about how your response should depend on what kind of grades your son gets, I would caution you to assess this in the context of his realistic ability, which you are likely very familiar with. Some people work very hard but get average grades, and some people basically just turn up to the exams and still get As. If you think your son is getting so-so grades because he doesn't care about school, then maybe. But if he's in a difficult discipline, or the coursework isn't structured in a way that suits his learning style, or if he's spending all his time learning cool stuff on his own but half-assing the actual assessment, or if he just doesn't learn especially quickly, I think that's a different situation - perhaps one still worth addressing, depending on what's going on, but not necessarily something he should be financially punished for.
posted by lwb at 11:54 PM on June 25, 2012

Not mean. Actions have consequences, and he needs to be responsible for his actions. You lost a tuition discount? That was your fault. And guess what - we're only paying up to your discounted tuition rate, and you get to pay the rest, because we're not suffering and your siblings aren't doing without because you can't act like a grown up.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:55 AM on June 26, 2012

To be sure, a kid doesn't run up a $500 in miscellaneous charges because they've had to deal with repercussions a lot. Likely, a hard line here would seem to be coming out of the blue.
posted by rhizome at 11:29 AM on June 26, 2012

Refusing to give a child $500 in circumstances where all he stands to lose is $500 (or a modest amount more) is tough love.

Refusing to give a child $500 in circumstances where he stands to lose far more than that—let's say $5000+ in increased tuition, and much, much more in increased debt and delayed earnings—is much more than tough love. Frankly, it seems more like spite.

If circumstances indeed spiral out of control, do you really want your son remembering you as the person who refused to lend him a paltry (all-things-considered) $500 that could've prevented it all? Even if all of those consequences would be his fault, and even if such a grudge on his part would be unfair to you, I wouldn't be willing to risk a relationship with my son over it. Not in a million years.

Leave your tough love for a case where the punishment is proportionate to the crime.
posted by matlock expressway at 11:47 AM on June 26, 2012 [7 favorites]

bail him out on his cellphone bill (iPhone when a basic phone will do), address yet another speeding ticket, pay for extra trips home and back, etc.

*record scratches*

wat.

This just became a lot easier. Stop paying the cell phone bill and write a check TO THE SCHOOL for $500 (don't just give it to him). He will figure out very quickly how to make $100/month to pay for his iPhone. That is a total luxury. I got my first smartphone last year, on my 37th birthday.

Speeding tickets? Let them pile up. He can't get insured? He doesn't drive.

If he's not making any efforts anywhere else, he can figure out how to pay his own way home or not come home at all. Greyhound SUCKS but it still exists.
posted by desjardins at 12:18 PM on June 26, 2012 [9 favorites]

Probably on campus tickets & why he has to pay to register & stay enrolled.
posted by tilde at 5:16 AM on June 27, 2012

Pay it, but don't tell him. Make him work and sweat it out all summer. He'll perceive consequences without actually risking catastrophe.
posted by spaltavian at 5:32 PM on June 27, 2012