My SO is unconcerned with how little time we spend together.
June 15, 2012 6:37 AM Subscribe
My SO is unconcerned with how little time we spend together.
For the past several months, my SO and I have not been spending very much time together due to work and school. My SO also has a hobby that he spends a lot of time on. Although he is at home when he does this hobby, he's not really available to talk to.
For a long time, I have been wanting to start a creative project and finally found some people with which to do it. This will mean even less time to spend together. This worries me. I tried to bring it up with my SO but I felt like I was not articulating myself properly and the conversation was not productive.
My SO has been very supportive of the project, which is great. But I feel taken aback by how little he is concerned by how much time it will take away from us. It is a long-term project and the time requirements will only go up. I think I am projecting how I would react to the situation if it were reversed, and I am having a hard time accepting that people respond differently to different things.
If it were reversed, I would feel worried. The immature part of me would worry that he would be spending a large quantity of his time being the only male in a group of attractive and talented females sharing something of which I am not a part. The more reasonable part of me would simply miss him, and try to schedule dates and even try to include myself a little bit by bringing their creative group cookies or lunch or something, so I could at least meet them.
I tried to explain this but I think I just came off as manipulative. I would want him to do what makes him happy, just as he says he just wants me to do what makes me happy, but not at the expense of our relationship. He feels no need to meet these other guys, is unaffected that it will take what little time we do have together as a couple away, all under the premise that "he shouldn't have to be worried, that he should be able to trust me." I agree, but at what point do you trust someone so much that you become okay with never seeing them and never sharing anything with them? Because that is essentially where our relationship is right now.
It's not that I want him to be jealous. I want him to know that no other guy holds a candle to him. And I think he's really, really, really taken that to heart. I think because of how clear I've been on that issue over the years, that he thinks he can never see me, put no effort into being a part of my life (like actually wondering what I did with the group today, or who is in it, or wanting to meet them), and still come out ahead of every guy.
I don't know if it is complacency or confidence, but I need help forming this issue in words without sounding like I just want to manipulate him and make him jealous.
For the past several months, my SO and I have not been spending very much time together due to work and school. My SO also has a hobby that he spends a lot of time on. Although he is at home when he does this hobby, he's not really available to talk to.
For a long time, I have been wanting to start a creative project and finally found some people with which to do it. This will mean even less time to spend together. This worries me. I tried to bring it up with my SO but I felt like I was not articulating myself properly and the conversation was not productive.
My SO has been very supportive of the project, which is great. But I feel taken aback by how little he is concerned by how much time it will take away from us. It is a long-term project and the time requirements will only go up. I think I am projecting how I would react to the situation if it were reversed, and I am having a hard time accepting that people respond differently to different things.
If it were reversed, I would feel worried. The immature part of me would worry that he would be spending a large quantity of his time being the only male in a group of attractive and talented females sharing something of which I am not a part. The more reasonable part of me would simply miss him, and try to schedule dates and even try to include myself a little bit by bringing their creative group cookies or lunch or something, so I could at least meet them.
I tried to explain this but I think I just came off as manipulative. I would want him to do what makes him happy, just as he says he just wants me to do what makes me happy, but not at the expense of our relationship. He feels no need to meet these other guys, is unaffected that it will take what little time we do have together as a couple away, all under the premise that "he shouldn't have to be worried, that he should be able to trust me." I agree, but at what point do you trust someone so much that you become okay with never seeing them and never sharing anything with them? Because that is essentially where our relationship is right now.
It's not that I want him to be jealous. I want him to know that no other guy holds a candle to him. And I think he's really, really, really taken that to heart. I think because of how clear I've been on that issue over the years, that he thinks he can never see me, put no effort into being a part of my life (like actually wondering what I did with the group today, or who is in it, or wanting to meet them), and still come out ahead of every guy.
I don't know if it is complacency or confidence, but I need help forming this issue in words without sounding like I just want to manipulate him and make him jealous.
Yeah, you're not really placing him in a fair situation here. I don't know exactly what you told him, but I'm assuming you didn't present it to him better than you're presenting it to us.
What's he supposed to say? That he doesn't support the project and he doesn't want you to do it? That would be shitty. So what's left? Being supportive, which he did. Look, do you want to do this project? If you don't, you shouldn't, but if you do, he should be supportive. If you want him to say you can do it but express jealousy or concern (or try to veto it but you're going to do it anyway), that is manipulative -- it's like you're testing him.
If you want to spend more time with him, raise that as its own concern. Find ways to spend more time together. If he isn't willing to work with you to spend more time together and doesn't seem to want to, that's your real problem. If you don't feel appreciated in this relationship, raise that as its own concern. If you don't feel like he wants to know about your life or be part of it, again, raise that as its own concern.
Do you secretly want him to talk you out of starting this project? Do you want him to give up his hobby? Figure this stuff out and then go have another talk with him.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:55 AM on June 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
What's he supposed to say? That he doesn't support the project and he doesn't want you to do it? That would be shitty. So what's left? Being supportive, which he did. Look, do you want to do this project? If you don't, you shouldn't, but if you do, he should be supportive. If you want him to say you can do it but express jealousy or concern (or try to veto it but you're going to do it anyway), that is manipulative -- it's like you're testing him.
If you want to spend more time with him, raise that as its own concern. Find ways to spend more time together. If he isn't willing to work with you to spend more time together and doesn't seem to want to, that's your real problem. If you don't feel appreciated in this relationship, raise that as its own concern. If you don't feel like he wants to know about your life or be part of it, again, raise that as its own concern.
Do you secretly want him to talk you out of starting this project? Do you want him to give up his hobby? Figure this stuff out and then go have another talk with him.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:55 AM on June 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
But I feel taken aback by how little he is concerned by how much time it will take away from us. It is a long-term project and the time requirements will only go up.
I'm confused. It seems like you're concerned that your BF is supportive of a project that you are doing and over which you have control. If you don't want to spend the time away from him, don't do the project. Why should he be the one who makes you stop?
It also sounds a bit like you think you aren't spending enough time together now, in which case this is something to discuss. If your BF feels like your time together is enough, perhaps you aren't compatible.
posted by OmieWise at 6:56 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
I'm confused. It seems like you're concerned that your BF is supportive of a project that you are doing and over which you have control. If you don't want to spend the time away from him, don't do the project. Why should he be the one who makes you stop?
It also sounds a bit like you think you aren't spending enough time together now, in which case this is something to discuss. If your BF feels like your time together is enough, perhaps you aren't compatible.
posted by OmieWise at 6:56 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
I agree, but at what point do you trust someone so much that you become okay with never seeing them and never sharing anything with them? Because that is essentially where our relationship is right now.
There are two different dynamics going on, but the same facts are generating them so it's a bit confusing.
Part of me wouldn't like it if my wife were taking, say, an long weekend retreat in a convent of nuns. I might understand, and I could find a way to be okay with it, but I'd miss her a lot and it would be hard. That has nothing to do with whether I trusted her to cheat on me or not.
It seems like you want or need to spend more time with your SO, but you don't want to be the one to express that want or need: you want him to be the one supplying the right amount of want to the relationship. You're dissatisfied because your needs aren't being met, but you're not articulating them in a way that will help you, or him, to meet your needs.
If you want to spend more time with him, the way to do it is to say something like, "sweetie, I love you and I think it's great that you are super interested in [whatever his hobby is], but I'm feeling a little neglected and would like to make a concerted effort to spend more time with you. Can we talk about setting aside [let's say] two evenings a week that will be proper date nights?"
posted by gauche at 7:02 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
There are two different dynamics going on, but the same facts are generating them so it's a bit confusing.
Part of me wouldn't like it if my wife were taking, say, an long weekend retreat in a convent of nuns. I might understand, and I could find a way to be okay with it, but I'd miss her a lot and it would be hard. That has nothing to do with whether I trusted her to cheat on me or not.
It seems like you want or need to spend more time with your SO, but you don't want to be the one to express that want or need: you want him to be the one supplying the right amount of want to the relationship. You're dissatisfied because your needs aren't being met, but you're not articulating them in a way that will help you, or him, to meet your needs.
If you want to spend more time with him, the way to do it is to say something like, "sweetie, I love you and I think it's great that you are super interested in [whatever his hobby is], but I'm feeling a little neglected and would like to make a concerted effort to spend more time with you. Can we talk about setting aside [let's say] two evenings a week that will be proper date nights?"
posted by gauche at 7:02 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I'd just drop the attempting to read into the implications of what it means that he didn't express X about this project bit.
Just tell him, "I feel like we're not spending enough time together lately and I don't like it. I want to feel like I know what's going on in your life and I hope you feel the same. Let's figure out a way we can do that, even though we're both busy."
Now, if he says, " great, honey, that'd be awesome, I want to make time to hang out with you, too" then problem solved, right? But if he balks and says, "nah, I can't really spare any weeknights for other stuff what with work and X, besides, I mean, we do live together" then there's you're issue.
posted by Diablevert at 7:03 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just tell him, "I feel like we're not spending enough time together lately and I don't like it. I want to feel like I know what's going on in your life and I hope you feel the same. Let's figure out a way we can do that, even though we're both busy."
Now, if he says, " great, honey, that'd be awesome, I want to make time to hang out with you, too" then problem solved, right? But if he balks and says, "nah, I can't really spare any weeknights for other stuff what with work and X, besides, I mean, we do live together" then there's you're issue.
posted by Diablevert at 7:03 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
You are upset that your SO is supportive of your enthusiastic wish to do something creative, and isn't expressing alarm, thereby trying to emotionally manipulate you into stopping it. This is silly. Not everyone expresses their every emotion unless there is a purpose behind it. If you want to spend more time with this guy, do so, otherwise thank him for being a nice and supportive guy.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:07 AM on June 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:07 AM on June 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
All of this is a red herring. The real problem is that you both don't make time for each other. Sit down. Talk to him. Say you want and need more time with him. Quit it with the worrying about how he should feel this or that. This way madness, disappointment and manipulation lie.
posted by inturnaround at 7:11 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by inturnaround at 7:11 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
I think you're extrapolating way too much here. The first step is to tell your SO "hey, we haven't been spending much quality time together lately, and I'd like to change that. Let's spend [day/time] doing [thing]." This happens from time to time in long-term relationships, and it can be hard to notice if you see your partner daily but don't have many shared activities. Do you make and eat meals together? Go on walks? Go to bed at the same time? Couple time doesn't have to be a planned-out date night. But you do have to ask for it.
As for his detachment from your new project: he may consider some distance healthy, and it is. In all couples, each partner will have interests and ideas that are wholly his/her own, and there's a fine balance between being involved in your partner's projects and intrusive. Maybe he thinks it's awesome that you're doing this thing, but it's just not his thing, and he'd rather support from afar than wade into it and end up slowing you down.
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:12 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
As for his detachment from your new project: he may consider some distance healthy, and it is. In all couples, each partner will have interests and ideas that are wholly his/her own, and there's a fine balance between being involved in your partner's projects and intrusive. Maybe he thinks it's awesome that you're doing this thing, but it's just not his thing, and he'd rather support from afar than wade into it and end up slowing you down.
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:12 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
You're upset because your SO isn't reacting to the situation the way you would react despite being differently wired. I don't think you can be upset with him for not doing something you would do.
Maybe he just doesn't find whatever you're doing interesting and it is, frankly, pretty tiring to hear about a project where you know none of the people involved and don't much care about what's going on.
You want to spend more time with him, so cut the crap and do it, don't try to get him to act like you so he can make you do it.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:14 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe he just doesn't find whatever you're doing interesting and it is, frankly, pretty tiring to hear about a project where you know none of the people involved and don't much care about what's going on.
You want to spend more time with him, so cut the crap and do it, don't try to get him to act like you so he can make you do it.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:14 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
The issue is how little he is concerned with spending time together when we can; a few minutes here, a few minutes there, maybe even coming to lunch with the group.
You want him to be more concerned about spending time together. Because you're concerned about spending time together. I hear you. It's frustrating not to have your expectations met.
Can you be okay with it being a thing that you want? Can you be okay with being the one who wants to spend time together, and him being the one who is indifferent to spending time together? If you can, then great. This relationship can go on. The next question for you is whether you express your want to him and work out a way to address it, together, or you just suppress that want and focus on the other good things in your relationship.
If you can't, then you have a fundamental incompatibility. While disappointing, this is also in some ways good news because now you know that you are not compatible with your boyfriend. You can use that knowledge to manage this relationship with him, or to find somebody else with whom you are compatible in this way.
posted by gauche at 7:14 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
You want him to be more concerned about spending time together. Because you're concerned about spending time together. I hear you. It's frustrating not to have your expectations met.
Can you be okay with it being a thing that you want? Can you be okay with being the one who wants to spend time together, and him being the one who is indifferent to spending time together? If you can, then great. This relationship can go on. The next question for you is whether you express your want to him and work out a way to address it, together, or you just suppress that want and focus on the other good things in your relationship.
If you can't, then you have a fundamental incompatibility. While disappointing, this is also in some ways good news because now you know that you are not compatible with your boyfriend. You can use that knowledge to manage this relationship with him, or to find somebody else with whom you are compatible in this way.
posted by gauche at 7:14 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
OP here: Like I said, if it were reversed, I would ask about the people he's with and try to meet them. When I started talking about the people I will be working with, he told me he didn't want to hear me go on about these other people. Maybe out of jealousy. This hobby is under my control, and yes it will take time away from us. The issue is how little he is concerned with spending time together when we can; a few minutes here, a few minutes there, maybe even coming to lunch with the group. His hobby takes up a large chunk of his time too, so even if I didn't do my hobby, we still wouldn't be spending much time together. Which maybe isn't the issue; I don't need a ton of time from him, but I do need some indication that he would like to know about my life.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:14 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
You are engaging in classic manipulative behaviour, creating no-win scenarios for people and then attacking them no matter what they choose.
You've got a project you are excited to work on, he's happy for you and supportive of you doing this project, and you're angry/irritated/concerned because he isn't getting jealous and trying to intrude on your project. He cannot win, and no matter which way he goes, you are vindicated in your assessment of him not being involved enough in your life together.
Take at face value his support for you and your project and stop having insane expectations that he should support your project because it's something you want while simultaneously not supporting it because it takes time away from being together. This is your project that you control, so if it bothers you that it takes up too much of your together time, the onus is on you to correct it, not him.
posted by Sternmeyer at 7:15 AM on June 15, 2012 [26 favorites]
You've got a project you are excited to work on, he's happy for you and supportive of you doing this project, and you're angry/irritated/concerned because he isn't getting jealous and trying to intrude on your project. He cannot win, and no matter which way he goes, you are vindicated in your assessment of him not being involved enough in your life together.
Take at face value his support for you and your project and stop having insane expectations that he should support your project because it's something you want while simultaneously not supporting it because it takes time away from being together. This is your project that you control, so if it bothers you that it takes up too much of your together time, the onus is on you to correct it, not him.
posted by Sternmeyer at 7:15 AM on June 15, 2012 [26 favorites]
Which maybe isn't the issue; I don't need a ton of time from him, but I do need some indication that he would like to know about my life.
Just let him know that.
He might not want to know about your hobby/work life simply because he finds it boring or inscrutable (e.g. you are a programmer and he is not), or it just seems like it's the same all the time. Also, some people are just out-of-sight, out of mind. Perhaps he'd rather talk about what's in front of you guys right now. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about you.
But if you let him know that it is important for him to inquire about your hobby in order for you to feel cared for, he'll do it if he cares about you.
posted by ignignokt at 7:16 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just let him know that.
He might not want to know about your hobby/work life simply because he finds it boring or inscrutable (e.g. you are a programmer and he is not), or it just seems like it's the same all the time. Also, some people are just out-of-sight, out of mind. Perhaps he'd rather talk about what's in front of you guys right now. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about you.
But if you let him know that it is important for him to inquire about your hobby in order for you to feel cared for, he'll do it if he cares about you.
posted by ignignokt at 7:16 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you go at this like "my concern is that you're not spontaneously exhibiting the reaction that I would ideally like you to have" then you're just setting yourself up for frustration. Any conversation where you're like "I need you to feel the way I want you to feel and show me that you feel that way without me telling you those things beforehand" --- this is a mug's game. Nobody wins there.
If your problem is, "lately I feel like you don't really care about me; you don't seem interested when I talk about what's going on with me and you don't seem to care that we don't see each other much" then tell him that. then at least he'll know what's bothering you and you can get a sense if his reaction to that. But you're going to have to cop to being worried about the relationship to address this. You seem to want him to reassure you that you have nothing to worry about without ever having to openly admit that you are worried. This is demanding the near-impossible.
posted by Diablevert at 7:16 AM on June 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
If your problem is, "lately I feel like you don't really care about me; you don't seem interested when I talk about what's going on with me and you don't seem to care that we don't see each other much" then tell him that. then at least he'll know what's bothering you and you can get a sense if his reaction to that. But you're going to have to cop to being worried about the relationship to address this. You seem to want him to reassure you that you have nothing to worry about without ever having to openly admit that you are worried. This is demanding the near-impossible.
posted by Diablevert at 7:16 AM on June 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
that he thinks he can never see me, put no effort into being a part of my life (like actually wondering what I did with the group today, or who is in it, or wanting to meet them), and still come out ahead of every guy.
It took you a while to get there but I think this is the crux of your issue. I can completely see your side of this. This is also not a fun thing to think of someone you love and especially not a fun thing to bring up to someone. You want more effort put in your relationship. The only way to get there is to a) put more effort in yourself by being more spontaneous, making more time for each other, doing special things and/or b) tell him explicitly that you want both of you to put a bit of focus back on the relationship because you feel you've both let it get put on the back burner. This has nothing to do with the project.
posted by Katine at 7:17 AM on June 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
It took you a while to get there but I think this is the crux of your issue. I can completely see your side of this. This is also not a fun thing to think of someone you love and especially not a fun thing to bring up to someone. You want more effort put in your relationship. The only way to get there is to a) put more effort in yourself by being more spontaneous, making more time for each other, doing special things and/or b) tell him explicitly that you want both of you to put a bit of focus back on the relationship because you feel you've both let it get put on the back burner. This has nothing to do with the project.
posted by Katine at 7:17 AM on June 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
it sounds like he is passively supporting you by letting you do what you want, but not actively supporting you by a) making more of an effort to schedule quality time with you since you will have extra time taken by the hobby and b) taking an interest in it (wanting to meet your friends, asking questions about it). you want to do your hobby, but in order to do the hobby, you need to know that it won't take away from what little time you currently spend with him. and you want him to take an interest in you & not take you for granted. these are reasonable things to want.
posted by katieanne at 7:22 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by katieanne at 7:22 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
I don't need a ton of time from him, but I do need some indication that he would like to know about my life.
If he's not interested in doing much with you or what you do in your life, then he's not a significant a significant other as you had previously believed.
posted by inturnaround at 7:25 AM on June 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
If he's not interested in doing much with you or what you do in your life, then he's not a significant a significant other as you had previously believed.
posted by inturnaround at 7:25 AM on June 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
OP here: Like I said, if it were reversed, I would ask about the people he's with and try to meet them. When I started talking about the people I will be working with, he told me he didn't want to hear me go on about these other people. Maybe out of jealousy.
This, in particular, seems like an unhelpful way to approach the situation.
I love my husband and I care about what he does with his life, but I will basically never ask him to describe people he works with or participates in casual group activities with, because I don't like to talk about casual acquaintances that I don't personally know. I just don't find it interesting. I have a hard enough time keeping track of my own acquaintances who I've met and hung out with. I can barely keep his coworkers straight in my head, since I've met most of them only once or twice in passing, and I know next to nothing about who he hangs out with at his various weekend hobby meetups. I figure that if he develops a real friendship with them, I'll meet them and get to know them, and otherwise they just aren't on my radar and I'm fine with that.
I suspect that your SO isn't jealous, just irritated and bored with listening to you talk about people he doesn't know. Maybe he feels like he has enough acquaintances already and doesn't need to meet any more right now. He might be acting like kind of a jerk about it, and I'm sorry if that's the case, but that's a very different problem.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:33 AM on June 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
This, in particular, seems like an unhelpful way to approach the situation.
I love my husband and I care about what he does with his life, but I will basically never ask him to describe people he works with or participates in casual group activities with, because I don't like to talk about casual acquaintances that I don't personally know. I just don't find it interesting. I have a hard enough time keeping track of my own acquaintances who I've met and hung out with. I can barely keep his coworkers straight in my head, since I've met most of them only once or twice in passing, and I know next to nothing about who he hangs out with at his various weekend hobby meetups. I figure that if he develops a real friendship with them, I'll meet them and get to know them, and otherwise they just aren't on my radar and I'm fine with that.
I suspect that your SO isn't jealous, just irritated and bored with listening to you talk about people he doesn't know. Maybe he feels like he has enough acquaintances already and doesn't need to meet any more right now. He might be acting like kind of a jerk about it, and I'm sorry if that's the case, but that's a very different problem.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:33 AM on June 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
So you've presented him with a situation where you are telling him about something you will be doing that will take more time away from your relationship. He doesn't seem concerned about losing that time (in your eyes). Could it be that he doesn't see it as a big deal or realize how much you are fretting about the lack of time because it would seem if you are taking on a project yourself, you aren't that concerned about the tie?
There is obviously a conversation about the relationship and the time spent together that you want to have with him. Just be upfront about it; don't tell him about a project you're excited about and then get mad that he isn't jealous or worried about it. Maybe he's just comfortable in your relationship and with the level of independence you two seem to have.
posted by Felicity Rilke at 7:37 AM on June 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
There is obviously a conversation about the relationship and the time spent together that you want to have with him. Just be upfront about it; don't tell him about a project you're excited about and then get mad that he isn't jealous or worried about it. Maybe he's just comfortable in your relationship and with the level of independence you two seem to have.
posted by Felicity Rilke at 7:37 AM on June 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Aren't concerned about the time. By which I mean, the amount of it spent together. Because why would someone worried about the amount of time they're spending with their partner start something that will create even less time? That's either backwards thinking or a really passive-aggressive action on your part.
posted by Felicity Rilke at 7:38 AM on June 15, 2012
posted by Felicity Rilke at 7:38 AM on June 15, 2012
It's true that you need to talk frankly and openly with him about this. Keep in mind that it is possible you two are simply drifting apart. Tread carefully, and also keep in mind that if you present something as an ultimatum, it may push him in a direction you weren't going for. All you can do is be honest to yourself and him about what it is you actually want in a relationship, and what is not working for you.
posted by wondermouse at 7:39 AM on June 15, 2012
posted by wondermouse at 7:39 AM on June 15, 2012
I feel like there are a few issues conflated in your question - quality time, trust, how to support a partner. I think you kind of need to pick one to address with him, and I think the real issue here is the quality time you spend together. How do you make an effort to spend time with him and demonstrate an interest in his life? Is there no other way that he can or does express interest in your life? I find it a bit odd that your response to not spending time together at present is to take on a project of your own which will decrease that time, then expecting him to make more of an effort, but it's possible because I am an internet stranger who lacks context. Curious to know, is this the first time you've spoken to him about this concern?
posted by sm1tten at 7:42 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by sm1tten at 7:42 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I ended up divorced in a situation like this. Two years ago my husband had his demanding job, and his intense hobby, and I was there for him. When I started going out and doing my own thing, which sometimes involved crashing with friends overnight, sometimes for multiple nights, he didn't seem to miss me.
In the span of three months, I realized that even though he wasn't into anyone else, he didn't have room in his life to have the kind of relationship I needed with him. He was married to his hobby, and lacked emotions beyond "fondness" for me.
Not saying this will happen to you, but take some time to reexamine the foundations of your relationship and see if you're honestly compatible.
posted by itesser at 7:55 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
In the span of three months, I realized that even though he wasn't into anyone else, he didn't have room in his life to have the kind of relationship I needed with him. He was married to his hobby, and lacked emotions beyond "fondness" for me.
Not saying this will happen to you, but take some time to reexamine the foundations of your relationship and see if you're honestly compatible.
posted by itesser at 7:55 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
Mod note: From the OP:
I have tried unsuccessfully to get us to spend more time together, also for a long time, and I've become mostly okay with that. We don't eat meals together, go to bed at the same time, or have any hobby together. We talk for about five minutes when I get home. It's kind of sad, but most of our interaction happens when I share links with him on Facebook (and we live together!) As katieanne pointed out, he is only passively supporting me. I had only just started talking about one of the guys in the band for maybe a minute, when he said he "didn't want to hear me go on about some other guy." He would never have said that if it were a woman, and when I pointed that out, he admitted so. I worry that this hobby of mine will just pull us even further apart. Our relationship should be able to accomodate my hobby, as well as his. At this moment, it feels like he barely has room for me. How can he be simulataneously jealous of the time I'm spending with these other guys and uninterested in who they are and what we do?posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:58 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Dude, I had a whole reply written out here, but after your last update, it's pretty clear: the problem is not that you have a new hobby. It's that your relationship sucks.
He doesn't take any interest in you at home, why on EARTH would you expect him to take an interest in what you're doing outside the home?
He is not going to change. DTMFA.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:02 AM on June 15, 2012 [22 favorites]
He doesn't take any interest in you at home, why on EARTH would you expect him to take an interest in what you're doing outside the home?
He is not going to change. DTMFA.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:02 AM on June 15, 2012 [22 favorites]
If you're not happy with the dynamics of your relationship, and the other person is not interested in change, you have a pretty clear choice: settle or go. You can't make him care or feel differently, you only get to choose how you feel and what you do about it.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:02 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 8:02 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yikes, okay...having read that last update?
If this is an accurate description of your relationship, then you're not really in a relationship. I'm sorry. It sounds like a frustrating and disheartening situation.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:03 AM on June 15, 2012
If this is an accurate description of your relationship, then you're not really in a relationship. I'm sorry. It sounds like a frustrating and disheartening situation.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:03 AM on June 15, 2012
It's kind of sad, but most of our interaction happens when I share links with him on Facebook (and we live together!)
That's not kind of sad, that's really sad. Being alone couldn't be worse than trying to prop up a relationship with someone so disengaged.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:04 AM on June 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
That's not kind of sad, that's really sad. Being alone couldn't be worse than trying to prop up a relationship with someone so disengaged.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:04 AM on June 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
I wrote a while long thing, but after reading your last update, the issue isn't your hobbies or time, the issue is your relationship. That last post you put up, if it is in fact accurate, is enough for me to say you need to find another SO. I know it sounds harsh, but it sounds to me like he doesn't really like you very much. I have more interaction than that with my casual friends. If you are living with him and he is this dismissive of you, than this relationship is really not working. At all. You need to put the hobby discussions aside and have a real talk with him about the relationship, making it very clear to him that things are not working for you.
Don't expect him to change in his ways if you don't give him an ultimatum. Right now, it sounds like if he was forced to choose between his life and a life together, he would choose his own life. This won't likely change. If you do nothing, than 5 years from now you will be unhappy and wondering why you wasted 5 years of your life.
posted by markblasco at 8:11 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Don't expect him to change in his ways if you don't give him an ultimatum. Right now, it sounds like if he was forced to choose between his life and a life together, he would choose his own life. This won't likely change. If you do nothing, than 5 years from now you will be unhappy and wondering why you wasted 5 years of your life.
posted by markblasco at 8:11 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I think because of how clear I've been on that issue over the years, that he thinks he can never see me, put no effort into being a part of my life (like actually wondering what I did with the group today, or who is in it, or wanting to meet them), and still come out ahead of every guy."
So, basically, he's taking you for granted and you're realising that you're not okay with him assuming he can have you based on past agreements without any emotional and physical investment in your world, from what I'm seeing.
It would probably help you crystallise your thoughts and feelings on this if you would drop the jealousy thing. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't - it's still not the real issue, and while your concern is valid, the approach you're taking about it does have a manipulative signature to it, which I'm certain you don't want, ultimately. And, even if you did, that's not going to help you work this out, so it's better to let that part go.
From what you've written, whether you do this thing or not, he's not motivated to spend time with you to the point that you feel neglected and drifting...and, apparently, emotionally neglected. Based on the details you've given, that's an entirely understandable reaction.
Have you specifically told him that you're worrying (beyond jealousy or this specific activity you want to join or whatever) that you are feeling disconnected from him because of the lack of time investment and lack of interest on his part? Have you specifically told him you don't really want a marriage where there is this little interaction?
Because if you haven't, you need to. You need to sit down with him and remove this from mentioning any specific activities or assumptions about jealousy or anything else and focus on old-fashioned "'I' statements", wherein you phrase how you are feeling specifically by owning those feelings: "When we don't spend any time together, I feel neglected.", "When you are not involved in my day-to-day life, I feel taken for granted.", "I don't feel like you care about my life." et cetera.
If you don't feel you can have that conversation, or you have and it didn't change anything, then you may want to consider counseling. Have you asked him about attending couples therapy? Have you pursued personal counseling for untangling these things with the help of a professional? Those might be good steps to take. Otherwise...if he knows precisely how you feel and then nothing changes, you're not happy and shouldn't be in a union that doesn't feel unified to you.
posted by batmonkey at 8:13 AM on June 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
So, basically, he's taking you for granted and you're realising that you're not okay with him assuming he can have you based on past agreements without any emotional and physical investment in your world, from what I'm seeing.
It would probably help you crystallise your thoughts and feelings on this if you would drop the jealousy thing. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't - it's still not the real issue, and while your concern is valid, the approach you're taking about it does have a manipulative signature to it, which I'm certain you don't want, ultimately. And, even if you did, that's not going to help you work this out, so it's better to let that part go.
From what you've written, whether you do this thing or not, he's not motivated to spend time with you to the point that you feel neglected and drifting...and, apparently, emotionally neglected. Based on the details you've given, that's an entirely understandable reaction.
Have you specifically told him that you're worrying (beyond jealousy or this specific activity you want to join or whatever) that you are feeling disconnected from him because of the lack of time investment and lack of interest on his part? Have you specifically told him you don't really want a marriage where there is this little interaction?
Because if you haven't, you need to. You need to sit down with him and remove this from mentioning any specific activities or assumptions about jealousy or anything else and focus on old-fashioned "'I' statements", wherein you phrase how you are feeling specifically by owning those feelings: "When we don't spend any time together, I feel neglected.", "When you are not involved in my day-to-day life, I feel taken for granted.", "I don't feel like you care about my life." et cetera.
If you don't feel you can have that conversation, or you have and it didn't change anything, then you may want to consider counseling. Have you asked him about attending couples therapy? Have you pursued personal counseling for untangling these things with the help of a professional? Those might be good steps to take. Otherwise...if he knows precisely how you feel and then nothing changes, you're not happy and shouldn't be in a union that doesn't feel unified to you.
posted by batmonkey at 8:13 AM on June 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
I disagree that this has anything to do with manipulation. Manipulation would be going out and getting a hobby in order to provoke a reaction. It's a wonderful thing that you have a new interest. Honestly, maybe the best case scenario would be if he were interested in it too. Like if he learned how to do the thing too, so you could spend time together. Or if he came to hang out at one of the after-the-meeting/practice/game social events wth you and your new teammates. That way they wouldn't be strangers!
There is nothing wrong with wanting companionship, and to learn and challenge each other together, to talk about the people that you both know, and to enjoy there is a wealth of downtime time you get to spend with this person, not really trying to get anything done, just both being. These are the best parts of a relationship.
Is his hobby the internet? Maybe you could sit down and talk to him about how much time this is taking up that you would rather spend together. There may be other issues at play for him, like emotional health. Is he depressed?
posted by kettleoffish at 8:58 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
There is nothing wrong with wanting companionship, and to learn and challenge each other together, to talk about the people that you both know, and to enjoy there is a wealth of downtime time you get to spend with this person, not really trying to get anything done, just both being. These are the best parts of a relationship.
Is his hobby the internet? Maybe you could sit down and talk to him about how much time this is taking up that you would rather spend together. There may be other issues at play for him, like emotional health. Is he depressed?
posted by kettleoffish at 8:58 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think you're just as much a victim as he is here - but you're both being victimized by your manipulative thinking. And it is on you to fix that; not him.
How can he be simulataneously jealous of the time I'm spending with these other guys and uninterested in who they are and what we do?
Easy. He loves you and doesn't want to be a jealous controlling boyfriend because he respects you and your hobby. And so in order to keep a lid on his identified irrational fears and jealousies, he'd rather you not feed it with stories about other guys that trigger his unwanted emotions. That question you asked there? That's very clearly manipulative thinking. You're blinding yourself to the VERY SIMPLE ANSWER that I provided for you. Why? Because it would moot the whole issue. And that wouldn't feed whatever insecurity you're cultivating in yourself.
What it really sounds like is that you want a hobby that the two of you can be involved in together. This is OK and common. He seems pretty content not having a hobby in common. This is also fairly common and also OK. (This is why a lot of people have kids, btw. So that they'll have a joint project to work on.) But that's a red herring. You need some therapy for your insecurity. Only once you've dealt with that, should you suggest to your SO that you maybe take up a joint project so that you can spend more time together. Otherwise, this issue is just going to put on a new mask and find new ways to instigate conflict between you.
posted by jph at 8:58 AM on June 15, 2012
How can he be simulataneously jealous of the time I'm spending with these other guys and uninterested in who they are and what we do?
Easy. He loves you and doesn't want to be a jealous controlling boyfriend because he respects you and your hobby. And so in order to keep a lid on his identified irrational fears and jealousies, he'd rather you not feed it with stories about other guys that trigger his unwanted emotions. That question you asked there? That's very clearly manipulative thinking. You're blinding yourself to the VERY SIMPLE ANSWER that I provided for you. Why? Because it would moot the whole issue. And that wouldn't feed whatever insecurity you're cultivating in yourself.
What it really sounds like is that you want a hobby that the two of you can be involved in together. This is OK and common. He seems pretty content not having a hobby in common. This is also fairly common and also OK. (This is why a lot of people have kids, btw. So that they'll have a joint project to work on.) But that's a red herring. You need some therapy for your insecurity. Only once you've dealt with that, should you suggest to your SO that you maybe take up a joint project so that you can spend more time together. Otherwise, this issue is just going to put on a new mask and find new ways to instigate conflict between you.
posted by jph at 8:58 AM on June 15, 2012
I'm a mild extrovert married to an intense introvert and there are times I could have written something similar to your initial post. My DH doesn't love hearing all the details about my friends etc. either, or at least not all the time. And when he gets into a hobby or a work project, he really, really gets into it and unless I specifically say: Dude, I need three hours Friday night, he is just off loving that.
I guess the difference is, though, that even though our "together time" is significantly less than some people's is, I do have the sense that we are doing things together. I think what you need to do is define some kind of baseline. "I need us to eat breakfast together on weekends, 3 dinners a week and have a date night" or whatever works around both of your hobbies. If he won't do at least some of that, then yeah, it doesn't look good.
I will say that over the years I have actually come to appreciate this very very much about our relationship. Out of almost frustration and boredom I have gotten involved in things I wouldn't have if we were reading the NY Times all cuddled up together all day Saturday and that has enriched my life and our social network and community, and his hobbies have as well; one or two have become shared. But like I said, there is that base feeling that we're a team.
posted by Zen_warrior at 9:04 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I guess the difference is, though, that even though our "together time" is significantly less than some people's is, I do have the sense that we are doing things together. I think what you need to do is define some kind of baseline. "I need us to eat breakfast together on weekends, 3 dinners a week and have a date night" or whatever works around both of your hobbies. If he won't do at least some of that, then yeah, it doesn't look good.
I will say that over the years I have actually come to appreciate this very very much about our relationship. Out of almost frustration and boredom I have gotten involved in things I wouldn't have if we were reading the NY Times all cuddled up together all day Saturday and that has enriched my life and our social network and community, and his hobbies have as well; one or two have become shared. But like I said, there is that base feeling that we're a team.
posted by Zen_warrior at 9:04 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I agree with you that your relationship should be able to accomodate both hobbies. But I don't think the potential jealousy thing is as important as you are making it. I wouldn't be happy in that kind of relationship either, but I think that saying you are "mostly okay" with it and then being upset that he is too - in the face of your getting a new hobby - doesn't make sense to me.
What did you try before, to increase the time you spend together, that didn't work? Was the relationship always like this?
posted by sm1tten at 9:17 AM on June 15, 2012
What did you try before, to increase the time you spend together, that didn't work? Was the relationship always like this?
posted by sm1tten at 9:17 AM on June 15, 2012
Here's a big question: if his attitude doesn't change, are you willing to stay with him?
I need help forming this issue in words
I think a good therapist could help you find the right words. And then you can address if your partner the right guy to give you what you want.
posted by roger ackroyd at 9:22 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I need help forming this issue in words
I think a good therapist could help you find the right words. And then you can address if your partner the right guy to give you what you want.
posted by roger ackroyd at 9:22 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Given your last update, your new hobby and his reaction to it is a distraction from the real problem, which is that you're not spending as much time together as you would like. Talk to him about this, and only this. Don't couch it in terms of his reactions to things, or what questions he does or does not ask, or anything like that. You would like to be in a relationship that involves more shared time. If he's willing to work with you to make this happen, great! If he's not, you should think really seriously about breaking up, because it will mean that the two of you want fundamentally different things out of a relationship.
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:26 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:26 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
If his attitude is "you're not allowed to talk about things you care about because I might get jealous" that's not healthy communication at all.
But your attitude also seems weird. It's like you think he doesn't love you enough unless he's super-jealous. But we've already established that he's jealous; he just deals with it in a completely passive-aggressive and childish way.
You both need help, it seems to me, in working out some kind of honest communication strategies, because your relationship sounds like it isn't making either of you happy.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:35 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
But your attitude also seems weird. It's like you think he doesn't love you enough unless he's super-jealous. But we've already established that he's jealous; he just deals with it in a completely passive-aggressive and childish way.
You both need help, it seems to me, in working out some kind of honest communication strategies, because your relationship sounds like it isn't making either of you happy.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:35 AM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
he thinks he can never see me, put no effort into being a part of my life (like actually wondering what I did with the group today, or who is in it, or wanting to meet them), and still come out ahead of every guy.
I don't know if it is complacency or confidence, but I need help forming this issue in words without sounding like I just want to manipulate him and make him jealous.
What? Okay, I totally don't understand the pushback you're getting in this thread at all. I totally understand the issue you are having and I don't think it is manipulative at all. You want your boyfriend to be a part of your life! That's normal. It's pretty much the point of having one. If I were in your relationship I would feel incredibly miserable, lonely, and unfulfilled.
One thing you can glean from this thread I think is that what you are trying to say will be misinterpreted if you make it about these other guys in this band. Maybe you didn't really know a good way to broach the issue so you just went with that, but as you can see, that's not going to be an effective way to go, I don't think. But I think I might understand why you broached the topic this way. It sounds like your boyfriend pretty regularly just shuts you down when you try to talk about how you feel. That rather than listening to you, and trying to do his best to understand you and reach some sort of spot where you're both happy, he kind of just makes a case for why you are wrong. I don't know, that's what I start thinking when someone talks about how they have been trying to work out an issue with their partner but never seem to be able to articulate themselves well enough. I think partners who are really concerned with your happiness really do their best to figure out what you are saying and understand you even when you are hardly articulate at all. It's when someone is actively opposing understanding you that suddenly you never seem to be able to articulate "well enough." IMO.
But anyway. Forget about these guys in the band and don't make it about them. This is the problem:
I have tried unsuccessfully to get us to spend more time together, also for a long time, and I've become mostly okay with that. We don't eat meals together, go to bed at the same time, or have any hobby together. We talk for about five minutes when I get home. It's kind of sad, but most of our interaction happens when I share links with him on Facebook (and we live together!)... At this moment, it feels like he barely has room for me.
This is a HUGE problem. What's the point of having a "boyfriend" in this scenario? What kind of relationship can you possibly have in 5 minutes a day of chatting?? You are allowed to say to him, "This is not okay with me at all, and I'm not going to live the rest of my life like this. Very simply, I'm not getting my needs met, and this is not the type of relationship I want to be in. I love you, but if this is how things are going to stay, at some point I'm going to leave." See how "articulate" he finds that. I'm worried that you think you can't just say the truth like that because "I would want him to do what makes him happy, just as he says he just wants me to do what makes me happy." Like if you objected at all to him doing anything that "makes him happy," no matter how it affects you, then that would make you this unsupportive, selfish, bad girlfriend/bad person.
Here's the thing. You can totally support his right to do what makes him happy. But YOU have no obligation to keep being his girlfriend while he does what makes him happy. If he can't find a way of living that makes him happy at the same time that it meets your needs and makes you happy, then you have every right to start moving on, and that is the right thing to do. And it is okay for you to TELL him that. It doesn't make you a bad person.
I think you are expressing that in a roundabout way with this: he thinks he can never see me, put no effort into being a part of my life ... and still come out ahead of every guy. I think it would be great to TELL him this, just don't make it about other guys. I think you can tell him, "Look, if you never see me, and you put no effort into being part of my life, I'm going to lose interest in being in this relationship." There is 0 that is manipulative about that statement, it's the honest truth.
Good luck. I think you deserve better than this and could quite easily find it.
posted by cairdeas at 9:48 AM on June 15, 2012 [15 favorites]
I don't know if it is complacency or confidence, but I need help forming this issue in words without sounding like I just want to manipulate him and make him jealous.
What? Okay, I totally don't understand the pushback you're getting in this thread at all. I totally understand the issue you are having and I don't think it is manipulative at all. You want your boyfriend to be a part of your life! That's normal. It's pretty much the point of having one. If I were in your relationship I would feel incredibly miserable, lonely, and unfulfilled.
One thing you can glean from this thread I think is that what you are trying to say will be misinterpreted if you make it about these other guys in this band. Maybe you didn't really know a good way to broach the issue so you just went with that, but as you can see, that's not going to be an effective way to go, I don't think. But I think I might understand why you broached the topic this way. It sounds like your boyfriend pretty regularly just shuts you down when you try to talk about how you feel. That rather than listening to you, and trying to do his best to understand you and reach some sort of spot where you're both happy, he kind of just makes a case for why you are wrong. I don't know, that's what I start thinking when someone talks about how they have been trying to work out an issue with their partner but never seem to be able to articulate themselves well enough. I think partners who are really concerned with your happiness really do their best to figure out what you are saying and understand you even when you are hardly articulate at all. It's when someone is actively opposing understanding you that suddenly you never seem to be able to articulate "well enough." IMO.
But anyway. Forget about these guys in the band and don't make it about them. This is the problem:
I have tried unsuccessfully to get us to spend more time together, also for a long time, and I've become mostly okay with that. We don't eat meals together, go to bed at the same time, or have any hobby together. We talk for about five minutes when I get home. It's kind of sad, but most of our interaction happens when I share links with him on Facebook (and we live together!)... At this moment, it feels like he barely has room for me.
This is a HUGE problem. What's the point of having a "boyfriend" in this scenario? What kind of relationship can you possibly have in 5 minutes a day of chatting?? You are allowed to say to him, "This is not okay with me at all, and I'm not going to live the rest of my life like this. Very simply, I'm not getting my needs met, and this is not the type of relationship I want to be in. I love you, but if this is how things are going to stay, at some point I'm going to leave." See how "articulate" he finds that. I'm worried that you think you can't just say the truth like that because "I would want him to do what makes him happy, just as he says he just wants me to do what makes me happy." Like if you objected at all to him doing anything that "makes him happy," no matter how it affects you, then that would make you this unsupportive, selfish, bad girlfriend/bad person.
Here's the thing. You can totally support his right to do what makes him happy. But YOU have no obligation to keep being his girlfriend while he does what makes him happy. If he can't find a way of living that makes him happy at the same time that it meets your needs and makes you happy, then you have every right to start moving on, and that is the right thing to do. And it is okay for you to TELL him that. It doesn't make you a bad person.
I think you are expressing that in a roundabout way with this: he thinks he can never see me, put no effort into being a part of my life ... and still come out ahead of every guy. I think it would be great to TELL him this, just don't make it about other guys. I think you can tell him, "Look, if you never see me, and you put no effort into being part of my life, I'm going to lose interest in being in this relationship." There is 0 that is manipulative about that statement, it's the honest truth.
Good luck. I think you deserve better than this and could quite easily find it.
posted by cairdeas at 9:48 AM on June 15, 2012 [15 favorites]
Here are two things I think you are conflating:
A) "My boyfriend doesn't seem to care enough that we don't spend much time together." Agree that this is not healthy for the vast vast vast majority of relationships.
B) "My boyfriend doesn't seem to care enough that I spend time with other guys." This isn't useful.
See, first of all, it sounds like he is way too caring about that--my husband doesn't say "Oh, don't tell me about other guys" when I talk about interests and activities he doesn't share, and I don't say "Oh, don't tell me about other girls" when he talks about his latest folk music extravaganza or whatever.
And second of all, there is no such thing as "too much trust." Trusting someone implicitly doesn't mean you don't love them or you don't care. It means pretty much the exact opposite.
So toss B) out and work on A). And maybe do some introspecting on where B) came from in the first place?
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:19 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
A) "My boyfriend doesn't seem to care enough that we don't spend much time together." Agree that this is not healthy for the vast vast vast majority of relationships.
B) "My boyfriend doesn't seem to care enough that I spend time with other guys." This isn't useful.
See, first of all, it sounds like he is way too caring about that--my husband doesn't say "Oh, don't tell me about other guys" when I talk about interests and activities he doesn't share, and I don't say "Oh, don't tell me about other girls" when he talks about his latest folk music extravaganza or whatever.
And second of all, there is no such thing as "too much trust." Trusting someone implicitly doesn't mean you don't love them or you don't care. It means pretty much the exact opposite.
So toss B) out and work on A). And maybe do some introspecting on where B) came from in the first place?
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:19 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have tried unsuccessfully to get us to spend more time together, also for a long time, and I've become mostly okay with that. We don't eat meals together, go to bed at the same time, or have any hobby together. We talk for about five minutes when I get home. It's kind of sad, but most of our interaction happens when I share links with him on Facebook (and we live together!)
This sounds like the real problem here. How direct have you been? Have you just been suggesting "hey, we're both free Friday night, how about dinner?" or did you address it more directly, as in "This is a major problem in our relationship that needs to be addressed?"
It sounds like the problem is not your hobby, or his hobby, it is that you are not making time for each other. That's the issue you need to bring up with him. Is there any reason you can't at least eat dinner together every night?
posted by inertia at 10:51 AM on June 15, 2012
This sounds like the real problem here. How direct have you been? Have you just been suggesting "hey, we're both free Friday night, how about dinner?" or did you address it more directly, as in "This is a major problem in our relationship that needs to be addressed?"
It sounds like the problem is not your hobby, or his hobby, it is that you are not making time for each other. That's the issue you need to bring up with him. Is there any reason you can't at least eat dinner together every night?
posted by inertia at 10:51 AM on June 15, 2012
I think it's clear, despite your protest to the contrary, that you want to spend more time together. You want him to put more effort into this relationship and to stop taking you for granted. Your follow-up comments confirm this (even if you say you are "mostly okay" with spending almost no time together, which you also describe, correctly, as "sad").
That is the real issue here. I understand you've tried to talk about this before without success. Well, you need to do it again. You're just going to distract from the real issue if you try to make it about your hobby that you have decided to do.
Tell him you have to spend more time together to feel like you are in this relationship, and that he has to put effort in and try to connect with you, or else you are going to stop wanting to be in this relationship (and when you do, you will stop being in this relationship). This isn't a threat or an ultimatum -- it's a clear articulation of a basic relationship need. If he's unwilling to give you that, you need to think long and hard about why you are still in this relationship.
posted by J. Wilson at 11:01 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
That is the real issue here. I understand you've tried to talk about this before without success. Well, you need to do it again. You're just going to distract from the real issue if you try to make it about your hobby that you have decided to do.
Tell him you have to spend more time together to feel like you are in this relationship, and that he has to put effort in and try to connect with you, or else you are going to stop wanting to be in this relationship (and when you do, you will stop being in this relationship). This isn't a threat or an ultimatum -- it's a clear articulation of a basic relationship need. If he's unwilling to give you that, you need to think long and hard about why you are still in this relationship.
posted by J. Wilson at 11:01 AM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think because of how clear I've been on that issue over the years, that he thinks he can never see me, put no effort into being a part of my life (like actually wondering what I did with the group today, or who is in it, or wanting to meet them), and still come out ahead of every guy.
Yeah, sounds like he's lost some respect for the part you play in his life. I'd figure out what you want, be calm and direct about asking for it (no waterworks or hamster wheel attempts at explaining yourself so he'll "get it") and if he doesn't show up and pay attention, do something else with yourself (and maybe eventually get out of the relationship, but don't use that as a threat). He may need to realize that he misses you, and the effort he's been making is not good enough. Listen to his actions.
I think most people like it when their SOs show that they have standards, even if it makes work on their end.
"Hey SO, I think we should sit down together and have dinner on Friday and watch x."
(if response is avoidant) "This is important to me and I want you to make time to do it."
(if response is still negative) "Okay, I'll do it by myself."
Then do not hassle him about it again. On Friday, only make dinner for yourself and do the thing you said you wanted to do. Be happy doing the thing and do not hassle, wheedle, nag etc., him about his non participation during or afterwards.
Repeat this at least three times. If he balks every time, then you need to sit down and have the talk. "Hey SO, it's important to me that we make time to do things together. You don't seem interested in doing that, because you haven't joined me. This is a big deal to me and we need to fix it."
Then be quiet and listen to him. If you don't hear him making a concrete effort to make time for you, you've got your answer.
posted by griselda at 11:31 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yeah, sounds like he's lost some respect for the part you play in his life. I'd figure out what you want, be calm and direct about asking for it (no waterworks or hamster wheel attempts at explaining yourself so he'll "get it") and if he doesn't show up and pay attention, do something else with yourself (and maybe eventually get out of the relationship, but don't use that as a threat). He may need to realize that he misses you, and the effort he's been making is not good enough. Listen to his actions.
I think most people like it when their SOs show that they have standards, even if it makes work on their end.
"Hey SO, I think we should sit down together and have dinner on Friday and watch x."
(if response is avoidant) "This is important to me and I want you to make time to do it."
(if response is still negative) "Okay, I'll do it by myself."
Then do not hassle him about it again. On Friday, only make dinner for yourself and do the thing you said you wanted to do. Be happy doing the thing and do not hassle, wheedle, nag etc., him about his non participation during or afterwards.
Repeat this at least three times. If he balks every time, then you need to sit down and have the talk. "Hey SO, it's important to me that we make time to do things together. You don't seem interested in doing that, because you haven't joined me. This is a big deal to me and we need to fix it."
Then be quiet and listen to him. If you don't hear him making a concrete effort to make time for you, you've got your answer.
posted by griselda at 11:31 AM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
I cannot disagree more strongly with the above. Testing your Significant Other? To see if he'll fail or pass? If you're considering doing this, your relationship is over already, and it isn't because your boyfriend doesn't care about you.
posted by jph at 4:54 PM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by jph at 4:54 PM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Check out the descriptions of the Four Horsemen of the Relationship Apocalypse: criticism vs. complaint, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.
Without anything being overtly "bad", sometimes a relationship doesn't fulfill you enough for you to remain in it. Left to its own devices, it'll often lurch along like a demented wind-up toy and come to an unpredictable stop.
Are you happy now? Do you have hope for future improvement?
If yes, stay as long as it makes you happy. Both members of a relationship should be happy on the whole - sure, sometimes things don't go our way and there are problems (see "richer and poorer," etc), but typically there's some sort of cosmic balance where you end up generally enriched by the relationship experience.
If no, there's nothing keeping you there, and you both deserve to find lasting happiness. The immediate kerfuffle of breaking up is hard and wearing, but it can be the right thing to do in the long run.
Like many commenters have said, try to tease out the root issue (which seems to be "insufficient attention/involvement with each other"), and see what can be addressed.
posted by bookdragoness at 9:01 PM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Without anything being overtly "bad", sometimes a relationship doesn't fulfill you enough for you to remain in it. Left to its own devices, it'll often lurch along like a demented wind-up toy and come to an unpredictable stop.
Are you happy now? Do you have hope for future improvement?
If yes, stay as long as it makes you happy. Both members of a relationship should be happy on the whole - sure, sometimes things don't go our way and there are problems (see "richer and poorer," etc), but typically there's some sort of cosmic balance where you end up generally enriched by the relationship experience.
If no, there's nothing keeping you there, and you both deserve to find lasting happiness. The immediate kerfuffle of breaking up is hard and wearing, but it can be the right thing to do in the long run.
Like many commenters have said, try to tease out the root issue (which seems to be "insufficient attention/involvement with each other"), and see what can be addressed.
posted by bookdragoness at 9:01 PM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Haven't read all of the other answers in detail, but TBH this guy sounds a bit complacent, and dare I say it even arrogant. Are there any major inequalities between you, or other reasons why he'd think (as it seems) that he is better than you could ever get elsewhere?
It seems like you want to feel more like you are central to his life, and less like a random add-on or an optional extra. Is there anything you know he needs/wants from you, so that you could frame this conversation in terms of a trade, or a deal?
If you said no to that, I would wonder if you have a relatively uncompromising or distant SO on your hands - he has all his needs met because you compromise and make an effort, and but when you ask for what you want he only does it if it suits him?
I may be reading too much into this but it sounds like you are coming off as manipulative because you find it hard to ask directly for what you want, or because you've discovered asking directly doesn't work with him.
tl dr; I'd say have a very straightforward and simple conversation about what you need from the relationship, and what might be stopping him from providing that. If asking directly does not work, and he can't come up with good reasons why he doesn't do it or good alternatives to get your needs met, then I'd seriously reconsider whether you want to be in this relationship at all.
posted by EatMyHat at 7:41 AM on June 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
It seems like you want to feel more like you are central to his life, and less like a random add-on or an optional extra. Is there anything you know he needs/wants from you, so that you could frame this conversation in terms of a trade, or a deal?
If you said no to that, I would wonder if you have a relatively uncompromising or distant SO on your hands - he has all his needs met because you compromise and make an effort, and but when you ask for what you want he only does it if it suits him?
I may be reading too much into this but it sounds like you are coming off as manipulative because you find it hard to ask directly for what you want, or because you've discovered asking directly doesn't work with him.
tl dr; I'd say have a very straightforward and simple conversation about what you need from the relationship, and what might be stopping him from providing that. If asking directly does not work, and he can't come up with good reasons why he doesn't do it or good alternatives to get your needs met, then I'd seriously reconsider whether you want to be in this relationship at all.
posted by EatMyHat at 7:41 AM on June 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Given your last update, your new hobby and his reaction to it is a distraction from the real problem, which is that you're not spending as much time together as you would like
I think this goes one step further - it's not even that you're not spending enough time together, but that you don't have a good sense whether or not he even cares what you're up to.
Set the discussion of your hobbies and activities aside, and have that conversation. Figure out what you need from him in order to feel 'cared for', and tell him that. Do you need him to ask you about your day? Do you need to just sit down every evening (over dinner or a drink maybe) and just connect? Or maybe a 'date night' would do where you're spending time together away from the computer. If you take the time to clearly express your needs, and he is not willing to at least make an honest effort to meet them, I would argue that you guys are incompatible and that you need to consider whether this relationship can make you happy.
As for the comments above on your behaviour being manipulative, I think it is a little, but not intentionally so. You just seem to be (desperately?) trying to provoke a response that would indicate to you that he does care. Jealousy of the people you're hanging out with and resentment of the time you spend away from home are only going to be felt if he cares that you're with him. There are other more positive indicators of course, but often, if he isn't voluntarily expressing them, the negative ones are the easiest to provoke. Instead of trying to provoke those, I would just ask him point blank 'Does it matter to you if I'm here or not?', explain to him clearly that you need to feel that from him in order to be happy in the relationship and ask if he's willing to help you meet that need by being more expressive. And then see if he does.
If not, it may be time to move on.
posted by scrute at 8:59 AM on June 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think this goes one step further - it's not even that you're not spending enough time together, but that you don't have a good sense whether or not he even cares what you're up to.
Set the discussion of your hobbies and activities aside, and have that conversation. Figure out what you need from him in order to feel 'cared for', and tell him that. Do you need him to ask you about your day? Do you need to just sit down every evening (over dinner or a drink maybe) and just connect? Or maybe a 'date night' would do where you're spending time together away from the computer. If you take the time to clearly express your needs, and he is not willing to at least make an honest effort to meet them, I would argue that you guys are incompatible and that you need to consider whether this relationship can make you happy.
As for the comments above on your behaviour being manipulative, I think it is a little, but not intentionally so. You just seem to be (desperately?) trying to provoke a response that would indicate to you that he does care. Jealousy of the people you're hanging out with and resentment of the time you spend away from home are only going to be felt if he cares that you're with him. There are other more positive indicators of course, but often, if he isn't voluntarily expressing them, the negative ones are the easiest to provoke. Instead of trying to provoke those, I would just ask him point blank 'Does it matter to you if I'm here or not?', explain to him clearly that you need to feel that from him in order to be happy in the relationship and ask if he's willing to help you meet that need by being more expressive. And then see if he does.
If not, it may be time to move on.
posted by scrute at 8:59 AM on June 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Catseye at 6:43 AM on June 15, 2012 [4 favorites]