Am I a lazy spouse
June 6, 2012 5:03 PM Subscribe
Job functionality inequality. OK married like a long time and this has always been an issue but more so lately. One spouse works a very physical job and one doesn't.
I am the doesn't work a physical job spouse - have always been that way for about 30 years. (Office job - benefits etc). Spouse has always worked a very physically demanding job. Both partners are 50 - 54 yrs old so this is starting to play more of a part in it.
I get up about 1 to 1.5 hr earlier every day drive about 1 to 1.5 hr each way commute and usually get home later than spouse but I go to an office (which can be very stressful). Spouse has a very physical job that varies but location is usually within a few towns from ours (10 -20 miles) usually home before me.
OK so the problem - according to spouse I am lazy because I don't jump at he chance to do certain things and all I do is sit at a desk all day. Honestly this has always been an issue but as we are getting older it just bothers me more. I do work all day - I am not lazy. I do all kind of other stuff too (I can and freeze vegetables like crazy in the summer - I don't even have a dishwasher for cripe sake).
My job is very stressfull and it is constantly implied (by work bosses) that I should be spending more time at work (I also honestly lose sleep over getting done what needs to be done). Spouse basically works the 8 hrs and never gives the job another thought until the next 8 hrs. I also carry all of the benefits as well as about 3 - 4 X the salary.
Ok so am I lazy - how do ypu balance a non physical job with a physical one. The mental stress sometimes keeps me up at night but as soon as I come home from work I am reminded that I didn't work as hard as spouse - what to do?
I am the doesn't work a physical job spouse - have always been that way for about 30 years. (Office job - benefits etc). Spouse has always worked a very physically demanding job. Both partners are 50 - 54 yrs old so this is starting to play more of a part in it.
I get up about 1 to 1.5 hr earlier every day drive about 1 to 1.5 hr each way commute and usually get home later than spouse but I go to an office (which can be very stressful). Spouse has a very physical job that varies but location is usually within a few towns from ours (10 -20 miles) usually home before me.
OK so the problem - according to spouse I am lazy because I don't jump at he chance to do certain things and all I do is sit at a desk all day. Honestly this has always been an issue but as we are getting older it just bothers me more. I do work all day - I am not lazy. I do all kind of other stuff too (I can and freeze vegetables like crazy in the summer - I don't even have a dishwasher for cripe sake).
My job is very stressfull and it is constantly implied (by work bosses) that I should be spending more time at work (I also honestly lose sleep over getting done what needs to be done). Spouse basically works the 8 hrs and never gives the job another thought until the next 8 hrs. I also carry all of the benefits as well as about 3 - 4 X the salary.
Ok so am I lazy - how do ypu balance a non physical job with a physical one. The mental stress sometimes keeps me up at night but as soon as I come home from work I am reminded that I didn't work as hard as spouse - what to do?
OK so the problem - according to spouse I am lazy because I don't jump at he chance to do certain things
What does this mean? The paragraph with this sentence in it seems to be your whole question, but it's not clear what exactly you're referring to.
posted by John Cohen at 5:14 PM on June 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
What does this mean? The paragraph with this sentence in it seems to be your whole question, but it's not clear what exactly you're referring to.
posted by John Cohen at 5:14 PM on June 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: As an example - garden needs to be weeded - I should be the one to jump at the chance to do it since I sit on my but all day.
posted by MrsMGH at 5:17 PM on June 6, 2012
posted by MrsMGH at 5:17 PM on June 6, 2012
Ah, yes. I understand this dilemma well. I finally had it out with my builder's labourer (ex)spouse that he chose those jobs and he should not judge me by his choices.
If your spouse calls you out on being 'lazy' ask him how can bringing home most of the salary be counted as lazy? Inform him that just because he doesn't understand the mental exhaustion caused by fast-paced office jobs doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Does he "jumps at the chance" to do the household accounts or other household 'desk style' jobs.
posted by Kerasia at 5:19 PM on June 6, 2012 [8 favorites]
If your spouse calls you out on being 'lazy' ask him how can bringing home most of the salary be counted as lazy? Inform him that just because he doesn't understand the mental exhaustion caused by fast-paced office jobs doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Does he "jumps at the chance" to do the household accounts or other household 'desk style' jobs.
posted by Kerasia at 5:19 PM on June 6, 2012 [8 favorites]
So what exactly does your spouse want from you? That you should get a more physical job so things will be "fair?" Or that you should do all of the housework because he has worked "harder" than you all day?
Or does is it that he wants to do things after work together and you are too tired, and he thinks you should not be tired because you don't work as hard as him?
The thing is, it doesn't matter how he thinks you should feel. If you feel tired, you feel tired. People have different levels of energy. You are not going to magically get more energy even if he did manage to convince you that you are lazy.
Or is his issue that he think that you don't respect his work because you make more money and work in an office while he is blue collar?
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:22 PM on June 6, 2012
Or does is it that he wants to do things after work together and you are too tired, and he thinks you should not be tired because you don't work as hard as him?
The thing is, it doesn't matter how he thinks you should feel. If you feel tired, you feel tired. People have different levels of energy. You are not going to magically get more energy even if he did manage to convince you that you are lazy.
Or is his issue that he think that you don't respect his work because you make more money and work in an office while he is blue collar?
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:22 PM on June 6, 2012
Sounds like spouse is harboring some grass-is-always-greener-on-the-other-side-of-the-fence resentment. I'd have a discussion about spouse's career options and see if it's time for him to get a less physical job, as it seems to be wearing on him. Maybe he is worried about his ability to continue doing his physical job because it is taking a toll on his body? This might be really hard on his self-perception.
The question of whether you are lazy or not is a distraction. This sounds like his anxiety leaking through - his way of (perhaps unconsciously) drawing attention to his issue. "I'm tired! You sat all day! You should do X!" Approach him kindly and try to avoid any defensive reaction to his accusations, if you want to get to the root of the problem.
posted by griselda at 5:25 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
The question of whether you are lazy or not is a distraction. This sounds like his anxiety leaking through - his way of (perhaps unconsciously) drawing attention to his issue. "I'm tired! You sat all day! You should do X!" Approach him kindly and try to avoid any defensive reaction to his accusations, if you want to get to the root of the problem.
posted by griselda at 5:25 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
If your spouse calls you out on being 'lazy' ask him how can bringing home most of the salary be counted as lazy?
I'd suggest that you do not bring this up. This will not win his heart or mind, but comes across as retaliation, and could very well lead to an escalation instead of solution. Try to keep the salary difference out of the discussion, as it does not address the fact you come home tired, and your spouse thinks you should have energy to get things done.
As Serene Empress Dork asked, is your lack of help around the house an issue, where he does chores while you're still driving home, or could it be a feeling that you don't valued his means of work?
Tackle the conflicts one issue at a time. If other things get tied up in a heated discussion, it's easy for either party to shift the discussion to their strong points, trying to come out ahead. Nothing will get solved that way.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:27 PM on June 6, 2012 [12 favorites]
I'd suggest that you do not bring this up. This will not win his heart or mind, but comes across as retaliation, and could very well lead to an escalation instead of solution. Try to keep the salary difference out of the discussion, as it does not address the fact you come home tired, and your spouse thinks you should have energy to get things done.
As Serene Empress Dork asked, is your lack of help around the house an issue, where he does chores while you're still driving home, or could it be a feeling that you don't valued his means of work?
Tackle the conflicts one issue at a time. If other things get tied up in a heated discussion, it's easy for either party to shift the discussion to their strong points, trying to come out ahead. Nothing will get solved that way.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:27 PM on June 6, 2012 [12 favorites]
It sounds as if you spend 2 or so hours a day more in your work life, commute included. It's a bit much to expect that you'd come home and jump at the chance to do more chores.
If you are making more money, though, why not buy a dishwasher and hire someone to clean up once a week? It sounds to me like there's an issue where you're expected to be a homemaker in addition to the breadwinner you already are. Hire someone to do the house work and spend your free time actually enjoying your life partner.
posted by musofire at 5:29 PM on June 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
If you are making more money, though, why not buy a dishwasher and hire someone to clean up once a week? It sounds to me like there's an issue where you're expected to be a homemaker in addition to the breadwinner you already are. Hire someone to do the house work and spend your free time actually enjoying your life partner.
posted by musofire at 5:29 PM on June 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: As I appreciate the suggestion of a career change for spouse it will not happen at this age. What I am asking is how do I legitimize (without causing a debate) my sitting on my butt all day and spouse not - and doing equal time for chores or whatever.
posted by MrsMGH at 5:30 PM on June 6, 2012
posted by MrsMGH at 5:30 PM on June 6, 2012
Hire a maid/gardener/yard service; then neither of you must do the chores you are arguing about? If physical exhaustion's a factor and money is not, NEITHER of you should do these things if it's causing your relationship to suffer.
It's not going to get easier as you age, as already noted in the question. However, if this is just "he does X amount of physical activity and I don't and he resents me," that's another issue altogether. One that a couples counselor might be better equipped to answer than AskMe.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 5:35 PM on June 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's not going to get easier as you age, as already noted in the question. However, if this is just "he does X amount of physical activity and I don't and he resents me," that's another issue altogether. One that a couples counselor might be better equipped to answer than AskMe.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 5:35 PM on June 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
If your spouse calls you out on being 'lazy' ask him how can bringing home most of the salary be counted as lazy?
If you value your marriage, do not make this about who earns what money. Some things can not be unsaid, and this argument is actually not about money - it's about mutual respect for one another's professions.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:37 PM on June 6, 2012 [20 favorites]
If you value your marriage, do not make this about who earns what money. Some things can not be unsaid, and this argument is actually not about money - it's about mutual respect for one another's professions.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:37 PM on June 6, 2012 [20 favorites]
Fairness is often a difficult concept in relationships – and an ongoing balance. The issue here seems to be that whilst you understand their job stress, primarily physical, they are not understanding yours. Mental / psychological primarily.
Partner works a Stressful Job Rule with a Kingpin Ad Agency whilst I often Work At Home – mainly that I work with startup businesses that may or may not have offices. Both jobs are quite stressful, yet in massively differently ways.
She has a low level of ambiguity, but a high expectation of output. In her role, she is an interface between the company and clients. Thus, she is often on her feet and playing ambassador between The People That Have The Money and The People That Want The Money; not always an easy place to inhabit.
My work is constant ambiguity. Each company is different, each project is different, each day is different. I have no idea what I am going to do tomorrow. And when the work hits, sometimes it hits very briefly yet very intensely. Today, for example, I had to make a decision about a highly technical area in which my competence is present, yet limited. Thus whilst the major task of the day took four hours, that was four hours of intense mental work. I was physically exhausted afterward.
Point being that 'stress' comes differently for each job. A big part is understanding the stress present in each job. I have gone to Partner's job and met her team and clients. I have seen exactly what her job entails; and I will never say it is 'easy'. Likewise, she sees that I awake at 5am to write highly technical documents and contact investors, clients, customers, partners, and the rest. She would never say it is 'easy'.
Back to your case, perhaps you need to introduce him to your stress. Communicate the difficult in terms he can relate to. What is a stressful day for you like? How does it feel? Try to describe the day in physical terms – terms that he can directly connect to. Fatigue. Heaviness. Exhaustion.
Finally, whilst you earn more money and carry the benefits, you also exist in a place of more stress. I remember an old lesson about working:
Why does a teacher get paid poorly whilst a CEO gets paid well? Because being a teacher is directly rewarding. The act in itself is rewarding, thus the pay is only part of the compensation. Being a CEO is indirectly rewarding (in many cases); people are doing it for the money. Because being a CEO is often miserable and very stressful.
Basic economics says that if you are paid 4x as much, someone has to pay you 4x as much to allocate your time to that job. That is, there is a job out there that would pay you 2x that you may enjoy more. But you're making a money choice, so you get 4x.
Point being, office jobs may be less physical but that doesn't mean they are any less demanding. There are similar demand, they are just expressed in different ways.
posted by nickrussell at 5:41 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Partner works a Stressful Job Rule with a Kingpin Ad Agency whilst I often Work At Home – mainly that I work with startup businesses that may or may not have offices. Both jobs are quite stressful, yet in massively differently ways.
She has a low level of ambiguity, but a high expectation of output. In her role, she is an interface between the company and clients. Thus, she is often on her feet and playing ambassador between The People That Have The Money and The People That Want The Money; not always an easy place to inhabit.
My work is constant ambiguity. Each company is different, each project is different, each day is different. I have no idea what I am going to do tomorrow. And when the work hits, sometimes it hits very briefly yet very intensely. Today, for example, I had to make a decision about a highly technical area in which my competence is present, yet limited. Thus whilst the major task of the day took four hours, that was four hours of intense mental work. I was physically exhausted afterward.
Point being that 'stress' comes differently for each job. A big part is understanding the stress present in each job. I have gone to Partner's job and met her team and clients. I have seen exactly what her job entails; and I will never say it is 'easy'. Likewise, she sees that I awake at 5am to write highly technical documents and contact investors, clients, customers, partners, and the rest. She would never say it is 'easy'.
Back to your case, perhaps you need to introduce him to your stress. Communicate the difficult in terms he can relate to. What is a stressful day for you like? How does it feel? Try to describe the day in physical terms – terms that he can directly connect to. Fatigue. Heaviness. Exhaustion.
Finally, whilst you earn more money and carry the benefits, you also exist in a place of more stress. I remember an old lesson about working:
Why does a teacher get paid poorly whilst a CEO gets paid well? Because being a teacher is directly rewarding. The act in itself is rewarding, thus the pay is only part of the compensation. Being a CEO is indirectly rewarding (in many cases); people are doing it for the money. Because being a CEO is often miserable and very stressful.
Basic economics says that if you are paid 4x as much, someone has to pay you 4x as much to allocate your time to that job. That is, there is a job out there that would pay you 2x that you may enjoy more. But you're making a money choice, so you get 4x.
Point being, office jobs may be less physical but that doesn't mean they are any less demanding. There are similar demand, they are just expressed in different ways.
posted by nickrussell at 5:41 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Setting chores is the easy part. It may sound a bit juvenile, but sit down with your spouse and spend time writing down all the chores you two need to get done around the house. If you realize there are too many for the two of you to tackle and still have enjoyable free time, hire help. Otherwise, divvy up chores, and talk about when you both can and are willing to do them.
As for explaining how a long day in the office is tiring, have you taken any long trips recently? Remind your spouse about how he felt after doing little but sitting in a car for hours, or navigating an airport and such and being stuck in your seat while you got from here to there. If that's not enough, remind him that you're not just sitting still all day, but dealing with demands from various people throughout the day, sometimes/often conflicting. If necessary, start listing off everything you did in a day. Just rattle them off, mentioning the time of day as you progress.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:42 PM on June 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
As for explaining how a long day in the office is tiring, have you taken any long trips recently? Remind your spouse about how he felt after doing little but sitting in a car for hours, or navigating an airport and such and being stuck in your seat while you got from here to there. If that's not enough, remind him that you're not just sitting still all day, but dealing with demands from various people throughout the day, sometimes/often conflicting. If necessary, start listing off everything you did in a day. Just rattle them off, mentioning the time of day as you progress.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:42 PM on June 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is it possible that your husband has some long-simmering resentment or self-conciousness about not being the main wage earner? And that this 'i work harder than you do' thing is a story he tells himself to make himself feel better about himself? "I don't earn much money compared to wife" maybe feels a lot worse to him than "i work way harder than my wife."
I know that doesn't give you a solution, but if you think that could be origin of the problem, it may help you figure out how to address it?
posted by Kololo at 5:45 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I know that doesn't give you a solution, but if you think that could be origin of the problem, it may help you figure out how to address it?
posted by Kololo at 5:45 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
He may just be gently suggesting you get some exercise. Ymmv.
posted by rr at 6:55 PM on June 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by rr at 6:55 PM on June 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
my sitting on my butt all day and spouse not
I think you need to start by rejecting this notion where "working in an office" = "sitting on my butt all day." The fact that you and he do different types of work at the physical level does not mean that you do not work equally. However, continuing to use this "sitting on my butt" language continues to reinforce the idea that you don't work and are lazy. Stop using that language yourself, and let him know when he uses it that you don't want to hear it. You work; he works. Work of all types is stressful mentally, physically, and emotionally.
At the heart of it, this question seems to be about how to get your spouse to respect you and value your work. I think that step one may be to make sure you are always speaking of yourself with value and respect. No more talk of "sitting on your butt," from either of you. (And, by the same token, no talk of how he "just" works 8 hours a day and doesn't have to worry about anything till the next day.)
Any solution to this problem is ultimately going to have to come from both of you deciding you want to figure it out together. And that can only come from being in a place of mutual respect.
posted by scody at 6:56 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think you need to start by rejecting this notion where "working in an office" = "sitting on my butt all day." The fact that you and he do different types of work at the physical level does not mean that you do not work equally. However, continuing to use this "sitting on my butt" language continues to reinforce the idea that you don't work and are lazy. Stop using that language yourself, and let him know when he uses it that you don't want to hear it. You work; he works. Work of all types is stressful mentally, physically, and emotionally.
At the heart of it, this question seems to be about how to get your spouse to respect you and value your work. I think that step one may be to make sure you are always speaking of yourself with value and respect. No more talk of "sitting on your butt," from either of you. (And, by the same token, no talk of how he "just" works 8 hours a day and doesn't have to worry about anything till the next day.)
Any solution to this problem is ultimately going to have to come from both of you deciding you want to figure it out together. And that can only come from being in a place of mutual respect.
posted by scody at 6:56 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
> Ok so am I lazy - how do ypu balance a non physical job with a physical one. The mental stress sometimes keeps me up at night but as soon as I come home from work I am reminded that I didn't work as hard as spouse - what to do?
Stop tolerating this petty jealousy or insecurity or whatever it is. When spouse tells you what you should be doing or how you should be feeling, tell spouse politely and calmly to cut it out, then change the subject. If it continues, just say "stop" and again, start talking about something else. Put your foot down, but don't don't waste your energy getting defensive or upset or justifying how hard you work all day at this point. Your partner's not looking for a grownup discussion of household responsibilities at this point.
Ceasing your tolerance for this behavior does not mean you don't love spouse or that you don't want to spend your life with him/her. It doesn't mean that you think you're perfect. It doesn't mean that you don't think spouse works very hard. It DOES mean that it's unpleasant and a waste of both of your precious free time to be sniping about comparing apples to oranges. Is spouse happy?
You should feel free to move through your life and keep reevaluating your positions. Aren't we supposed to get wiser as we get older? A better place to put your energy, both of you, would be discussing what would make you both happier. And you're only in your 50s! Gods willing, you've got another 30 years on this earth.
posted by desuetude at 7:17 PM on June 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Stop tolerating this petty jealousy or insecurity or whatever it is. When spouse tells you what you should be doing or how you should be feeling, tell spouse politely and calmly to cut it out, then change the subject. If it continues, just say "stop" and again, start talking about something else. Put your foot down, but don't don't waste your energy getting defensive or upset or justifying how hard you work all day at this point. Your partner's not looking for a grownup discussion of household responsibilities at this point.
Ceasing your tolerance for this behavior does not mean you don't love spouse or that you don't want to spend your life with him/her. It doesn't mean that you think you're perfect. It doesn't mean that you don't think spouse works very hard. It DOES mean that it's unpleasant and a waste of both of your precious free time to be sniping about comparing apples to oranges. Is spouse happy?
You should feel free to move through your life and keep reevaluating your positions. Aren't we supposed to get wiser as we get older? A better place to put your energy, both of you, would be discussing what would make you both happier. And you're only in your 50s! Gods willing, you've got another 30 years on this earth.
posted by desuetude at 7:17 PM on June 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Also, I note for the benefit of the other respondents that the OP obviously took some care to avoid revealing gender of either partner.
posted by desuetude at 7:23 PM on June 6, 2012
posted by desuetude at 7:23 PM on June 6, 2012
Basic economics says that if you are paid 4x as much, someone has to pay you 4x as much to allocate your time to that job. That is, there is a job out there that would pay you 2x that you may enjoy more. But you're making a money choice, so you get 4x.
Point being, office jobs may be less physical but that doesn't mean they are any less demanding.
I know some people are saying don't bring up the income disparity, but this here is why *I* would bring it up. I wouldn't fling it in his face, "yeah well I bring in twice as much as you!" but say, honestly, that your work takes a lot out of you. If he really wants you to do all these things around the house, tell him you cannot do it with your current job, but if he insists on it you could look for a job that's less stressful for you....but which would also bring in less pay and perhaps fewer benefits, and is that really something he's okay with?
IMO people should be contributing equally to a household. If you are contributing more to the financial end of the household, as well as more time working, so he needs to pick up the slack in other areas of home care. You can't expect drastically inequal business-work situations and then equal house-work situations. It's plain unfair to the primary worker.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 7:39 PM on June 6, 2012
Point being, office jobs may be less physical but that doesn't mean they are any less demanding.
I know some people are saying don't bring up the income disparity, but this here is why *I* would bring it up. I wouldn't fling it in his face, "yeah well I bring in twice as much as you!" but say, honestly, that your work takes a lot out of you. If he really wants you to do all these things around the house, tell him you cannot do it with your current job, but if he insists on it you could look for a job that's less stressful for you....but which would also bring in less pay and perhaps fewer benefits, and is that really something he's okay with?
IMO people should be contributing equally to a household. If you are contributing more to the financial end of the household, as well as more time working, so he needs to pick up the slack in other areas of home care. You can't expect drastically inequal business-work situations and then equal house-work situations. It's plain unfair to the primary worker.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 7:39 PM on June 6, 2012
Also, if he is repeatedly calling you "lazy" and accusing you of "sitting on your butt all day", that language is pretty disrespectful to a partner, and work issues aside you should have a sit-down with him about basic respect in the relationship.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 7:43 PM on June 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 7:43 PM on June 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
I do want to add one more thing (then I swear I'll go away) - double-check the chore distribution. I recall a study coming out a while ago that said many (not all!) husbands vastly overestimate the amount of time they spend on chores (need to find it though...heard it on the radio).
Perhaps it would be best to simply divide up the chores (fairly, considering workload) - so if it's their job to weed the yard, then there are no complaints about it. If you're spending three hours washing the dishes each week, why SHOULD you weed the yard - regardless of what your job is, you've already put in your housework time.
Or if you find a chore that both of you hate, perhaps see if there's someone in the neighborhood that wants a few bucks an hour to do it.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 8:53 PM on June 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Perhaps it would be best to simply divide up the chores (fairly, considering workload) - so if it's their job to weed the yard, then there are no complaints about it. If you're spending three hours washing the dishes each week, why SHOULD you weed the yard - regardless of what your job is, you've already put in your housework time.
Or if you find a chore that both of you hate, perhaps see if there's someone in the neighborhood that wants a few bucks an hour to do it.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 8:53 PM on June 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
First, you are not a lazy spouse.
Second, I've experienced this, though not in my current relationship. I think a lot of it actually tends to play out in the blue collar/white collar divide. Is there a reason why he keeps a lot of his identity in the type of work he does? Did he grow up with a different class background than you? He may have grown up believing only physical labor was "real" work.
One way to explain it may be the stress of fighting. "Honey, you know how it feels when we fight all the time? I really hate that too. That's what going to work feels like to me, every day. When I get home, I'm emotionally exhausted."
posted by corb at 10:30 PM on June 6, 2012
Second, I've experienced this, though not in my current relationship. I think a lot of it actually tends to play out in the blue collar/white collar divide. Is there a reason why he keeps a lot of his identity in the type of work he does? Did he grow up with a different class background than you? He may have grown up believing only physical labor was "real" work.
One way to explain it may be the stress of fighting. "Honey, you know how it feels when we fight all the time? I really hate that too. That's what going to work feels like to me, every day. When I get home, I'm emotionally exhausted."
posted by corb at 10:30 PM on June 6, 2012
I work doing physical labor and my partner works doing not quite office work. I leave for work much earlier than he does and return much earlier than he does. When I get home, I'm physically exhausted and need a break. I used to work the same job as my partner so I can see this from an additional perspective.
One of the things that could cause problems was that even though I knew I took a break when I got home, for some reason I didn't think that my partner needed to. Completely irrational of course because I know for damn sure I took about a 15-20 min break to decompress at the end of my former job's work day. There's something about watching someone sitting on a couch and doing nothing that's just irrationally infuriating. (note the use of the word irrational - I'm very aware that I'm being an idiot about this). I had to remind myself that this was his break time and think of it as a scheduled event. That helped. Can you establish the 15-20 minute break rule with your partner?
One other thing with my partner and I coming home at different times and getting up at different times was that I was waiting for him to have dinner and this was resulting in an extremely cranky me. I needed to eat earlier. Is this a problem here? I now eat dinner fairly soon after I get home instead of waiting for him. We still try to alternate cooking.
One other thing, and I'm slightly afraid to suggest it because it has a fairly thick veneer of hocum to it is using a cleaning/chores system. I don't hew to it all the time, but I've found Flylady useful in making things not overwhelming. It does have a bunch of stuff about not being resentful of your husband not doing anything and it also has a non-subtle Christian overtone, but you can ignore that completely - I ignore it with a vengeance. Getting the chores into manageable chunks has really helped me keep things from going full chaos over the past years. Use a timer. 15 minutes.
Good luck and I hope things get better both at work and at home soon.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:44 AM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
One of the things that could cause problems was that even though I knew I took a break when I got home, for some reason I didn't think that my partner needed to. Completely irrational of course because I know for damn sure I took about a 15-20 min break to decompress at the end of my former job's work day. There's something about watching someone sitting on a couch and doing nothing that's just irrationally infuriating. (note the use of the word irrational - I'm very aware that I'm being an idiot about this). I had to remind myself that this was his break time and think of it as a scheduled event. That helped. Can you establish the 15-20 minute break rule with your partner?
One other thing with my partner and I coming home at different times and getting up at different times was that I was waiting for him to have dinner and this was resulting in an extremely cranky me. I needed to eat earlier. Is this a problem here? I now eat dinner fairly soon after I get home instead of waiting for him. We still try to alternate cooking.
One other thing, and I'm slightly afraid to suggest it because it has a fairly thick veneer of hocum to it is using a cleaning/chores system. I don't hew to it all the time, but I've found Flylady useful in making things not overwhelming. It does have a bunch of stuff about not being resentful of your husband not doing anything and it also has a non-subtle Christian overtone, but you can ignore that completely - I ignore it with a vengeance. Getting the chores into manageable chunks has really helped me keep things from going full chaos over the past years. Use a timer. 15 minutes.
Good luck and I hope things get better both at work and at home soon.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:44 AM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Like desuetude, I think you ought to establish some boundaries around the discussion; he's not allowed to frame his issues as "you are lazy," period. If that's where he goes, there's no collaborative conversation to be had. But consider that he probably is having a genuine and legitimate problem, which he is addressing in a problematic way. If there's so much to be done that it's becoming a burden and keeping you from recovering each day, then some of the ways you run the household might have to change. You could hire some help, eat more takeout, or plant grass over parts of the garden so you can just mow a little more and weed a lot less. It's fine for each of you to feel that what's being asked of you is more than you care to do. You just need to stop framing it as each others' faults or weaknesses of character. Take a higher-level look at your priorities, and you'll almost certainly find that you'd both be happier if you tweaked a few entrenched patterns in the way you've been living.
posted by jon1270 at 5:17 AM on June 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by jon1270 at 5:17 AM on June 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
You are not lazy, and office jobs are not easy. That's the first thing. Not that I want you to pick a fight, but you can and should let your spouse know that you do not appreciate him calling you that. It's hurtful and it's not true and it needs to stop. You don't sit around on the couch all day eating bonbons, for crying out loud. Stop accepting this unfair definition of what you do.
Having said that, chores get neglected when both spouses work. It's just the nature of only having so many hours in the day and so much time. Maybe he's judging your house by the standard you would get if you were at home all day. Who knows? You both need to talk about what exactly this standard is, and whether it's fair or even obtainable, and why he's so hung up on it in the first place. Is he afraid of being judged by visitors? Does he just hate clutter?
Third, hire a housekeeper and buy a dishwasher, if you can.
posted by emjaybee at 7:37 AM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Having said that, chores get neglected when both spouses work. It's just the nature of only having so many hours in the day and so much time. Maybe he's judging your house by the standard you would get if you were at home all day. Who knows? You both need to talk about what exactly this standard is, and whether it's fair or even obtainable, and why he's so hung up on it in the first place. Is he afraid of being judged by visitors? Does he just hate clutter?
Third, hire a housekeeper and buy a dishwasher, if you can.
posted by emjaybee at 7:37 AM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why does a teacher get paid poorly whilst a CEO gets paid well? Because being a teacher is directly rewarding. The act in itself is rewarding, thus the pay is only part of the compensation. Being a CEO is indirectly rewarding (in many cases); people are doing it for the money. Because being a CEO is often miserable and very stressful.
Not to quibble, but I would not advise taking this tack. I find this idea infuriating, and I have no doubt that your spouse would, too. I have worked blue collar jobs and white collar jobs, and I can tell you honestly that I found the former to be physically exhausting and far less "rewarding," not only financially but also mentally and emotionally. Some jobs may pay more than others because they require special qualifications or because of supply/demand issues, in addition to many other possibilities (including the possibility that our society often pays less to certain groups of people -- and the jobs associated with those groups -- as part a pattern of longstanding social inequity).
In all honesty, the first thing I wondered about your question was whether there was a class or inequity issue at play. Are you and your spouse from different backgrounds? Did you have different educational or job opportunities? Are there differences between you that go deeper than what jobs you're holding right now? Because that could absolutely be helping to fuel a conflict like this, and it could absolutely make it more difficult to untangle.
Whatever your backgrounds, it seems like you and your spouse are not playing on the same team right now. If you were on the same team, then benefits to one of you would be benefits to both of you, right? If you want to fix this, you've got to get back onto the same team again. Part of that might be coming up with practical plans that allow the two of you to work together on common goals (ie, a chore list or a savings plan for a housekeeper), and part of that might be an honest discussion about why you're seeing each other as competitors instead of teammates.
posted by ourobouros at 9:08 AM on June 7, 2012
Not to quibble, but I would not advise taking this tack. I find this idea infuriating, and I have no doubt that your spouse would, too. I have worked blue collar jobs and white collar jobs, and I can tell you honestly that I found the former to be physically exhausting and far less "rewarding," not only financially but also mentally and emotionally. Some jobs may pay more than others because they require special qualifications or because of supply/demand issues, in addition to many other possibilities (including the possibility that our society often pays less to certain groups of people -- and the jobs associated with those groups -- as part a pattern of longstanding social inequity).
In all honesty, the first thing I wondered about your question was whether there was a class or inequity issue at play. Are you and your spouse from different backgrounds? Did you have different educational or job opportunities? Are there differences between you that go deeper than what jobs you're holding right now? Because that could absolutely be helping to fuel a conflict like this, and it could absolutely make it more difficult to untangle.
Whatever your backgrounds, it seems like you and your spouse are not playing on the same team right now. If you were on the same team, then benefits to one of you would be benefits to both of you, right? If you want to fix this, you've got to get back onto the same team again. Part of that might be coming up with practical plans that allow the two of you to work together on common goals (ie, a chore list or a savings plan for a housekeeper), and part of that might be an honest discussion about why you're seeing each other as competitors instead of teammates.
posted by ourobouros at 9:08 AM on June 7, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Michele in California at 5:09 PM on June 6, 2012 [2 favorites]