I need help making money, making music, and deciding a career.
May 31, 2012 7:36 PM Subscribe
I'm a full-time student who wants to net some pocket money and try to eventually start a music career, but I feel so lost, and Google's advice is too vague, so I thought I might ask here... More details inside!
Hello everyone, this is my first post on MeFi, let alone AskMe, so please bear with me if I pull any kind of faux pas here.
I'm 20 years old and I live in Flushing, NY.
I go to school at Baruch College in the Lower East Side and am majoring in English Literature. Some may ask what I'm doing at Baruch for a Lit major, and I'm not quite sure myself.
I want to teach English at some point later on, but I want to make a career for myself in music first- or at least attempt to. I've been playing guitar and singing for eight years now, and I want to be able to play at clubs and open mics near my school, and also make some money on the side by busking, as I do not have a job. I want to find people to jam with in the areas I move through as well, as I have realized having no one around to play with is deeply isolating and frustrating.
I've been told I play and sing really well, and have been suggested more than once to go on American Idol or other shows. Right now, I can't, because I have a four-year-old sister I currently take care of while my parents work most of the time, but I hope to soon.
My girlfriend and others, at the same time, tell me that music is not lucrative, and that I should abandon it in favor of more stable and profitable occupations. But I can't shake this idea, and sometimes I want it so much that it hurts (I don't know how else to describe this feeling), so what I want is to at least try and make a living from playing music, because what I really, truly want to do is make people happy by playing music.
So, long story short, I would like to ask this:
-Is it possible to make a small amount of money ($150-200/wk) by busking around the Lower East Side 3-4 times a week? Where is a good place to go, and what's a good time to do it? What is 'good' busking behavior, if it exists? Is sounding good all there is to busking?
-What are some popular open mic nights in NYC that can help me develop a following and/or pay me, even a little bit? Hopefully not too late, time-wise.
-Is it plausible to sustain a music career nowadays by mainly operating in NYC or maybe growing a YouTube following, without touring 24/7/365? Or is it something impossible, and I should focus more on a different vocation asap?
I'm sorry for the exceedingly long post. I hope that there are some MeFites here that can help me with my struggle. Thanks for your time everyone! :)
Hello everyone, this is my first post on MeFi, let alone AskMe, so please bear with me if I pull any kind of faux pas here.
I'm 20 years old and I live in Flushing, NY.
I go to school at Baruch College in the Lower East Side and am majoring in English Literature. Some may ask what I'm doing at Baruch for a Lit major, and I'm not quite sure myself.
I want to teach English at some point later on, but I want to make a career for myself in music first- or at least attempt to. I've been playing guitar and singing for eight years now, and I want to be able to play at clubs and open mics near my school, and also make some money on the side by busking, as I do not have a job. I want to find people to jam with in the areas I move through as well, as I have realized having no one around to play with is deeply isolating and frustrating.
I've been told I play and sing really well, and have been suggested more than once to go on American Idol or other shows. Right now, I can't, because I have a four-year-old sister I currently take care of while my parents work most of the time, but I hope to soon.
My girlfriend and others, at the same time, tell me that music is not lucrative, and that I should abandon it in favor of more stable and profitable occupations. But I can't shake this idea, and sometimes I want it so much that it hurts (I don't know how else to describe this feeling), so what I want is to at least try and make a living from playing music, because what I really, truly want to do is make people happy by playing music.
So, long story short, I would like to ask this:
-Is it possible to make a small amount of money ($150-200/wk) by busking around the Lower East Side 3-4 times a week? Where is a good place to go, and what's a good time to do it? What is 'good' busking behavior, if it exists? Is sounding good all there is to busking?
-What are some popular open mic nights in NYC that can help me develop a following and/or pay me, even a little bit? Hopefully not too late, time-wise.
-Is it plausible to sustain a music career nowadays by mainly operating in NYC or maybe growing a YouTube following, without touring 24/7/365? Or is it something impossible, and I should focus more on a different vocation asap?
I'm sorry for the exceedingly long post. I hope that there are some MeFites here that can help me with my struggle. Thanks for your time everyone! :)
That was regarding busking. Not open mic nights, obviously.
posted by vegartanipla at 7:49 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by vegartanipla at 7:49 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's going to be very hard to make a living without touring. Most artists in today's music industry make their money via touring, rather than through record sales.
Though you're not going to be able to tour without a fan base. Find a way to make yourself interesting and relevant in today's music scene. You need something that differentiates you from the million other dudes that can play guitar.
Find a concept, record an album or two, really try to build a world that the listener can get enveloped in, and put yourself out there on the internet (without being spammy!)
I mean, playing at bars and busking aren't really a way to gain fans, if you think about it.
Assuming all this works out for you, you might be able to quit your job, and therefore you won't have to be locked in to NYC. If not, hey you've still got a job, right?
(This is my first comment, so I hope I'm doing this right.)
posted by Gyrus at 8:49 PM on May 31, 2012
Though you're not going to be able to tour without a fan base. Find a way to make yourself interesting and relevant in today's music scene. You need something that differentiates you from the million other dudes that can play guitar.
Find a concept, record an album or two, really try to build a world that the listener can get enveloped in, and put yourself out there on the internet (without being spammy!)
I mean, playing at bars and busking aren't really a way to gain fans, if you think about it.
Assuming all this works out for you, you might be able to quit your job, and therefore you won't have to be locked in to NYC. If not, hey you've still got a job, right?
(This is my first comment, so I hope I'm doing this right.)
posted by Gyrus at 8:49 PM on May 31, 2012
Would you care if you were living with your parents at 40 years old with no job and no prospects of finding a job? That may be the result if you put all of your effort into being a musician. I know tons of fantastic musicians who have more than enough talent to be on the radio, yet they can't make enough money doing it to not have a day job.
Since you don't sound really sure about it, my advice would be this: Get a degree, and make sure you have a career path which leads you towards a job with benefits, insurance, retirement, future career paths, etc. Then, spend ALL of your extra time focusing on your music. This means that you should throw out the Xbox, cancel your cable subscription, get rid of netflix, and give up going to bars nightly, and all that other stuff which is fun, but will only keep you from spending time on your music.
You may think this is extreme, but the fact is that in the music industry, success has very little to do with how talented you are. If you listen to half of the bands who get played on the radio you would know this. If you've been playing guitar for 8 years, and actually practicing that time, than you are more than talented enough as a guitar player to get songs onto the radio.
Success is going to come from things other than talent. Your image, your ability to charm people, your network and connections, and your ability to effectively use the internet and social media are huge. Notice that talent doesn't have anything to do with this.
The other big thing you need is drive. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of other musicians who all think that they can be successful. That is why there is a line for days of many thousands of people at every American Idol audition. And guess what, only a small handful are actually picked to be on the show, and from them only a small handful end up being big successes. There are always going to be people more talented than you, but if you have the drive to do everything you can to succeed, that will help put you ahead. This means that while someone else is playing call of duty, you are spending 20 hours a week practicing your craft (not just playing music, but studying and practicing songwriting, singing, guitar, etc.), networking, making youtube videos, writing songs, writing more songs, writing even more songs, etc.
If you look at how most current sucessful musicians got to where they are, it wasn't because of their talent (although in the past that was much more important), it was because they knew how to work the system, who to schmooze, how to charm the pants off of someone who is important, and how to get thousands of people to watch their youtube videos.
Someone I know well is in a band. They were doing really well in their area, they opened for Muse and 30 Seconds to Mars, and everyone thought that they were surely going to "make it". Well, that didn't happen. The sad part was that he was putting in a ton of effort, but things just didn't line up right. That isn't to say that in 5 years they won't be doing something, but he decided having some stability in life was more important. After spending years trying to make music his living, and having quite a few lucky breaks, he decided that it was more important to him that he settle down with his wife and start having kids before they got any older, which means the music thing is on the back burner.
So, I guess in the end I will say this. If you think that the chance at being a successful musician is worth being middle age and barely getting by, than feel free to put 100% of your effort behind it. If the idea of that scares you, than make sure you set your life up to be comfortable, and then spend all of your excess time trying to make the dream a reality. The worst thing that can happen is that you don't become a sucessful musician, but you have a steady income, which means you can still have a band and play shows and write music and do all of that stuff, but you don't have to worry about success in order to not be homeless.
posted by markblasco at 8:55 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
Since you don't sound really sure about it, my advice would be this: Get a degree, and make sure you have a career path which leads you towards a job with benefits, insurance, retirement, future career paths, etc. Then, spend ALL of your extra time focusing on your music. This means that you should throw out the Xbox, cancel your cable subscription, get rid of netflix, and give up going to bars nightly, and all that other stuff which is fun, but will only keep you from spending time on your music.
You may think this is extreme, but the fact is that in the music industry, success has very little to do with how talented you are. If you listen to half of the bands who get played on the radio you would know this. If you've been playing guitar for 8 years, and actually practicing that time, than you are more than talented enough as a guitar player to get songs onto the radio.
Success is going to come from things other than talent. Your image, your ability to charm people, your network and connections, and your ability to effectively use the internet and social media are huge. Notice that talent doesn't have anything to do with this.
The other big thing you need is drive. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of other musicians who all think that they can be successful. That is why there is a line for days of many thousands of people at every American Idol audition. And guess what, only a small handful are actually picked to be on the show, and from them only a small handful end up being big successes. There are always going to be people more talented than you, but if you have the drive to do everything you can to succeed, that will help put you ahead. This means that while someone else is playing call of duty, you are spending 20 hours a week practicing your craft (not just playing music, but studying and practicing songwriting, singing, guitar, etc.), networking, making youtube videos, writing songs, writing more songs, writing even more songs, etc.
If you look at how most current sucessful musicians got to where they are, it wasn't because of their talent (although in the past that was much more important), it was because they knew how to work the system, who to schmooze, how to charm the pants off of someone who is important, and how to get thousands of people to watch their youtube videos.
Someone I know well is in a band. They were doing really well in their area, they opened for Muse and 30 Seconds to Mars, and everyone thought that they were surely going to "make it". Well, that didn't happen. The sad part was that he was putting in a ton of effort, but things just didn't line up right. That isn't to say that in 5 years they won't be doing something, but he decided having some stability in life was more important. After spending years trying to make music his living, and having quite a few lucky breaks, he decided that it was more important to him that he settle down with his wife and start having kids before they got any older, which means the music thing is on the back burner.
So, I guess in the end I will say this. If you think that the chance at being a successful musician is worth being middle age and barely getting by, than feel free to put 100% of your effort behind it. If the idea of that scares you, than make sure you set your life up to be comfortable, and then spend all of your excess time trying to make the dream a reality. The worst thing that can happen is that you don't become a sucessful musician, but you have a steady income, which means you can still have a band and play shows and write music and do all of that stuff, but you don't have to worry about success in order to not be homeless.
posted by markblasco at 8:55 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
I'm not in the music business, but I do know if you want to succeed in any type of business you have to market yourself like crazy. Make a website/Facebook/Youtube/iTunes page, hand out fliers when you are busking, try to book gigs everywhere even if they seem pretty shitty. The point is to get your name out there and make connections with people! The most successful people put themselves out there by meeting new people and they keep going despite how many rejections they might get. You most likely wont hit super-stardom and make millions, but it is possible to make a comfortable living for yourself (by doing what you love - which is fantastic!). But you really gotta work for it.
You are young and don't really have any major responsibilities so now is a perfect time to do this.
posted by littlesq at 8:58 PM on May 31, 2012
You are young and don't really have any major responsibilities so now is a perfect time to do this.
posted by littlesq at 8:58 PM on May 31, 2012
Hey chong!
Well damn on preview Mark wrote a much more concise, better post that was pretty similar to what I was going to say, even though I was writing the thing for the last 40 minutes. :P
I totally agree with everything he said. The only other thing I'm going to say (which is sort of repeating his thoughts on how to spend all your free time, and he is not wrong) is: even if the idea of committing to a non-music 'career' right now feels like sticking a shard of dirty glass in your eye, the trick, imho, is to make it such that it is 'ok' enough. By this I mean, regardless of what you choose to do to make money, you need to figure out how to incorporate your musicking in your life to some degree that it keeps you from going bonkers.
Whether that is busking, playing live, playing in the studio, mini tours, rehearsing, lessons, whatever. Even if it's not exactly (or even anywhere close) to what you would like to do with yourself full-time, make sure you do SOMEthing in that vein, if you choose to go the more-regular-day-job route.
Personally, I tried doing music full time after I finished my degree, and when I reached the point where I had $5 in my bank account, I said "ok, I really, really do not want to be a 'starving artist'." So I decided to do what Mark has suggested; I found a full time job that is super low stress, they let me go home right at 40 hours and I never take my work home with me, so indeed I spend the bulk of my free time on my musicking. Fortunately I also got health insurance at my job, which was important when my body decided to fall apart for no apparent reason, and made it a lot more difficult to do... anything. At first I couldn't really perform, so I helped co-manage a band and get their cd promoted around the country. Now, I am still slogging along, and one of these days I'll finish my record, which I learned to record & mix myself at home as a partial result of being ill so many days in a row.
( Shameless self-promotion here, as seen previously on the MeFi Musics.)
posted by bitterkitten at 9:21 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well damn on preview Mark wrote a much more concise, better post that was pretty similar to what I was going to say, even though I was writing the thing for the last 40 minutes. :P
I totally agree with everything he said. The only other thing I'm going to say (which is sort of repeating his thoughts on how to spend all your free time, and he is not wrong) is: even if the idea of committing to a non-music 'career' right now feels like sticking a shard of dirty glass in your eye, the trick, imho, is to make it such that it is 'ok' enough. By this I mean, regardless of what you choose to do to make money, you need to figure out how to incorporate your musicking in your life to some degree that it keeps you from going bonkers.
Whether that is busking, playing live, playing in the studio, mini tours, rehearsing, lessons, whatever. Even if it's not exactly (or even anywhere close) to what you would like to do with yourself full-time, make sure you do SOMEthing in that vein, if you choose to go the more-regular-day-job route.
Personally, I tried doing music full time after I finished my degree, and when I reached the point where I had $5 in my bank account, I said "ok, I really, really do not want to be a 'starving artist'." So I decided to do what Mark has suggested; I found a full time job that is super low stress, they let me go home right at 40 hours and I never take my work home with me, so indeed I spend the bulk of my free time on my musicking. Fortunately I also got health insurance at my job, which was important when my body decided to fall apart for no apparent reason, and made it a lot more difficult to do... anything. At first I couldn't really perform, so I helped co-manage a band and get their cd promoted around the country. Now, I am still slogging along, and one of these days I'll finish my record, which I learned to record & mix myself at home as a partial result of being ill so many days in a row.
( Shameless self-promotion here, as seen previously on the MeFi Musics.)
posted by bitterkitten at 9:21 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all of your considerate replies, everyone.
I don't want to threadsit, so this will be my only addendum/update.
I'm kind of having a breakdown right now.
I don't know what to do with my life, and I don't even know what question to ask now.
I guess the things that mark said were actually really obvious to me,
and now that it has been said, I'm back at square one, and I'm freaking out a tad bit.
Is a MeMail the proper way to deal with one's problems here?
I think I need a mentor to help me along, especially with busking ideas and things like that...
posted by chongnosall at 9:38 PM on May 31, 2012
I don't want to threadsit, so this will be my only addendum/update.
I'm kind of having a breakdown right now.
I don't know what to do with my life, and I don't even know what question to ask now.
I guess the things that mark said were actually really obvious to me,
and now that it has been said, I'm back at square one, and I'm freaking out a tad bit.
Is a MeMail the proper way to deal with one's problems here?
I think I need a mentor to help me along, especially with busking ideas and things like that...
posted by chongnosall at 9:38 PM on May 31, 2012
As a followup to what bitterkitten wrote, I had a full time job for about 13 years, which enabled me to have enough money to buy equipment to outfit my home studio with some nice stuff. This enabled me to open a business writing music for podcasts, and to start writing film scores and recording other people. Even though I didn't pursue music as my full time career, I have always done enough of it to be happy. 2 years ago I was able to quit my day job to stay home with my baby, partially because my wife has a stable job, partially because we were able to buy a house years ago and settle in, and partially because my music "hobby" now makes enough money to almost equal what my income would have been if I had kept working full time and had to pay for child care. The main benefit to that is that I get to stay home with my kid, and when people ask what I do, I can say "I'm a musician".
Even though it was a hobby, I've written music for radio, had a song included on the DVD for Joss Whedon's Dr. Horrible, and get to record with a lot of other great musicians. Had I pursued music as a career from the get go, I probably wouldn't have made as much money, meaning I wouldn't have been able to have a nice studio at home and wouldn't have been able to buy a house with my wife, and would now probably be struggling to find 2 jobs that would pay enough to cover the costs of child care.
Now, having said everything I've said, the fact that you are young puts you at a great advantage. If you use up the next 2-3 years of your life trying to make it, and nothing happens, you won't be too far behind if you then decide to start a career. When you get older, you have more responsibilities and more commitments, which makes it harder to change course with your life.
Whatever you do, I would definitely recommend you get your college degree. School is a bazillion times harder when you are older, partially because you get out of the habit of it, partially because your body can't work without a decent amount of sleep, and partially because you have too many other things taking up your time. I think the biggest mistake people make at your age is not getting as much schooling as they can before moving on. I don't think there is anyone in their 40's or older who regrets spending a few more years in school than they would have liked, but there are tons of people who regret not spending enough time in school.
So, if you really think you have what it takes to make it as a musician, why don't you do this. Start posting video's on youtube every week. Yes, that's right, every week. Post a new song, whether it be an original or a cover, do one a week without fail. If you can do that, over time you should be able to see if people like your stuff. Youtube makes it easy to track and for people to give comments. If you've got something special, than people will notice.
posted by markblasco at 9:44 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Even though it was a hobby, I've written music for radio, had a song included on the DVD for Joss Whedon's Dr. Horrible, and get to record with a lot of other great musicians. Had I pursued music as a career from the get go, I probably wouldn't have made as much money, meaning I wouldn't have been able to have a nice studio at home and wouldn't have been able to buy a house with my wife, and would now probably be struggling to find 2 jobs that would pay enough to cover the costs of child care.
Now, having said everything I've said, the fact that you are young puts you at a great advantage. If you use up the next 2-3 years of your life trying to make it, and nothing happens, you won't be too far behind if you then decide to start a career. When you get older, you have more responsibilities and more commitments, which makes it harder to change course with your life.
Whatever you do, I would definitely recommend you get your college degree. School is a bazillion times harder when you are older, partially because you get out of the habit of it, partially because your body can't work without a decent amount of sleep, and partially because you have too many other things taking up your time. I think the biggest mistake people make at your age is not getting as much schooling as they can before moving on. I don't think there is anyone in their 40's or older who regrets spending a few more years in school than they would have liked, but there are tons of people who regret not spending enough time in school.
So, if you really think you have what it takes to make it as a musician, why don't you do this. Start posting video's on youtube every week. Yes, that's right, every week. Post a new song, whether it be an original or a cover, do one a week without fail. If you can do that, over time you should be able to see if people like your stuff. Youtube makes it easy to track and for people to give comments. If you've got something special, than people will notice.
posted by markblasco at 9:44 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Don't be afraid to comment on your thread if you've got something to add. This is your thread after all, and your question, so if you want some clarification or to ask something else, feel free to do so.
If I were to ask you one question right now, it would be this: What's more important to you, a comfortable life that involves music, or a life that is fully centered around a music career? Be honest with yourself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting that you want to enjoy life, even if that means having a "real job". It's also amazing how much the appeal of something can wear off once it becomes a job. Would you still want a career in music if that meant spending 11 months of the year touring around the country in a beat up old van, playing in hotel bars for 10 people who aren't even listening, only sleeping in a bed once or twice a month, and showering at camp ground bathrooms? This is a "music career", but to me sounds like hell.
Feel free to email me if you have more questions, I'm always happy to help. My website is in my profile (or easily findable by adding a dot com to my name). I'll put my email address in my profile (I don't really do the mefi mail thing).
posted by markblasco at 9:54 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
If I were to ask you one question right now, it would be this: What's more important to you, a comfortable life that involves music, or a life that is fully centered around a music career? Be honest with yourself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting that you want to enjoy life, even if that means having a "real job". It's also amazing how much the appeal of something can wear off once it becomes a job. Would you still want a career in music if that meant spending 11 months of the year touring around the country in a beat up old van, playing in hotel bars for 10 people who aren't even listening, only sleeping in a bed once or twice a month, and showering at camp ground bathrooms? This is a "music career", but to me sounds like hell.
Feel free to email me if you have more questions, I'm always happy to help. My website is in my profile (or easily findable by adding a dot com to my name). I'll put my email address in my profile (I don't really do the mefi mail thing).
posted by markblasco at 9:54 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just want to add, the only person I know who is actually succeeding significantly as a non-classical, pop musician, pursued musical training aggressively in college but then took some time off from music to go work in finance. He then spun that into a consulting job with flexible hours, and he continues to work as a consultant, part time, in between recording and touring. So - don't feel like this is an all-or-nothing decision. As others have noted, you're young. This means you've got time to craft a very shrewd plan about how to earn a living while simultaneously pursuing a musical career. No need for panic or breakdowns, just calm, cool planning!
posted by artemisia at 9:59 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by artemisia at 9:59 PM on May 31, 2012
You're 20. You're in college, and regardless of what one "does with" an English degree, you're going to end up with a BA and eventually have at least the option of a stable middle class job.
So go play music if you want! You live in New York! There's a music venue on every other corner. I know easily 20 people who have some performance/artistic thing they do that is maybe not their full time career, or even really lucrative at all, but there always seems to be a place for them to have shows. Every cafe has an open mic night or a jam session* or what have you. Some friends of mine used to be in this band you've never heard of, and they went on tour and put out an EP. They didn't get rich or anything, but yeah, if you want to play music, and you don't absolutely suck, it's there almost for the asking.
Yes, you can definitely busk. There's territory and whatnot, and I'm sure there's an ettiquette to all of it. I'm also pretty sure that googling "busking ettiquite", "how to be a busker", etc will probably turn up at least some ideas of what you're getting yourself into. I had friends in college who busked and they all survived. I don't know that they made a ton of money at it, but they didn't get beaten up or anything.
Don't worry about "having what it takes" or "making it" or whatever. Just go play music. Because you can. It's there, if you want it.
Don't freak out. Just go play.
Don't worry about needing someone to help you come up with ideas for busking. Fuck that. 90% of buskers are just some guy with a guitar or some steel drums or something.
Don't worry about what you're going to do with your life. You're 20. You have another two years at least before you even get to start thinking properly about that question. And it doesn't have to be answered for a long ass time.
*A jam session might be a good way to make friends who are into playing music, or maybe even join/start a band. I know my neighborhood cafe does one earlyish on a weeknight. If you memail me and you're willing to commute there, I'll tell you which place I'm talking about. Or just look around in the cafes by Baruch, or maybe in Astoria/Long Island City (*cough*The Creek And The Cave*cough*) or Williamsburg.
posted by Sara C. at 10:01 PM on May 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
So go play music if you want! You live in New York! There's a music venue on every other corner. I know easily 20 people who have some performance/artistic thing they do that is maybe not their full time career, or even really lucrative at all, but there always seems to be a place for them to have shows. Every cafe has an open mic night or a jam session* or what have you. Some friends of mine used to be in this band you've never heard of, and they went on tour and put out an EP. They didn't get rich or anything, but yeah, if you want to play music, and you don't absolutely suck, it's there almost for the asking.
Yes, you can definitely busk. There's territory and whatnot, and I'm sure there's an ettiquette to all of it. I'm also pretty sure that googling "busking ettiquite", "how to be a busker", etc will probably turn up at least some ideas of what you're getting yourself into. I had friends in college who busked and they all survived. I don't know that they made a ton of money at it, but they didn't get beaten up or anything.
Don't worry about "having what it takes" or "making it" or whatever. Just go play music. Because you can. It's there, if you want it.
Don't freak out. Just go play.
Don't worry about needing someone to help you come up with ideas for busking. Fuck that. 90% of buskers are just some guy with a guitar or some steel drums or something.
Don't worry about what you're going to do with your life. You're 20. You have another two years at least before you even get to start thinking properly about that question. And it doesn't have to be answered for a long ass time.
*A jam session might be a good way to make friends who are into playing music, or maybe even join/start a band. I know my neighborhood cafe does one earlyish on a weeknight. If you memail me and you're willing to commute there, I'll tell you which place I'm talking about. Or just look around in the cafes by Baruch, or maybe in Astoria/Long Island City (*cough*The Creek And The Cave*cough*) or Williamsburg.
posted by Sara C. at 10:01 PM on May 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Mark, I think your question really hit the nail on the head.
When I think hard about it, I'm not so hardcore as to want something like that for my entire life.
A couple years, maybe, but definitely not for any longer.
Thanks for helping me to see that.
Would it be alright if I emailed you later on, once I got a YouTube channel going?
It would be an honor if you were to take a look at it once I feel like I have an accurate depiction of myself on it.
Thanks again, everyone, for your answers.
Even though I don't know anyone here, I feel so much less...alone.
I really like this place.
posted by chongnosall at 10:08 PM on May 31, 2012
When I think hard about it, I'm not so hardcore as to want something like that for my entire life.
A couple years, maybe, but definitely not for any longer.
Thanks for helping me to see that.
Would it be alright if I emailed you later on, once I got a YouTube channel going?
It would be an honor if you were to take a look at it once I feel like I have an accurate depiction of myself on it.
Thanks again, everyone, for your answers.
Even though I don't know anyone here, I feel so much less...alone.
I really like this place.
posted by chongnosall at 10:08 PM on May 31, 2012
If you want to learn about busking, the best thing you can do is to go to where people busk, and find someone who is finishing up, throw 10 dollars into their pot and ask them if they'll give you 10 minutes of their time to answer some questions. Who knows, you might make some good friends and develop your network, which is a huge plus. As you will find in life, many if not most of your best opportunities will come from people you know.
posted by markblasco at 10:09 PM on May 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by markblasco at 10:09 PM on May 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
You can email me whenever you want about whatever you want. Heck, I've got a great margarita recipe, once you turn 21 and know what alcohol tastes like ;)
One good piece of advice I've learned from people throughout the years is that the best way to start doing something is to just do it. It doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't even have to be that good, but actually doing something and getting momentum going is hard, and we often make excused for why we haven't started with a path yet. So, with that in mind, if you have a video camera, or a phone that does video, or even a webcam on your computer, I'll say this: Take whatever song you think you can play the best, and record it and put it on youtube. Not next week, or even in a few days. Do it now (or if you have to worry about a sleeping family in the house, do it tomorrow as soon as you can). It doesn't matter if you think it is fantastic, what matters is that it is out there. It is a starting point. From then on, when people ask you about your music career, you can point them to that video. If you don't think that it came out that great, than use that as a challenge to yourself to make the next video better.
I don't know if you've heard of this musician named Justin Bieber, but he got his career going by posting youtube video's of himself singing.
Go do something like this right now! There's no reason you can't, and once you do, a chance at a music career is one step closer. Heck, if it's even half way decent than I'll give you a thumbs up on youtube, and then you'll have your first fan!
posted by markblasco at 10:22 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
One good piece of advice I've learned from people throughout the years is that the best way to start doing something is to just do it. It doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't even have to be that good, but actually doing something and getting momentum going is hard, and we often make excused for why we haven't started with a path yet. So, with that in mind, if you have a video camera, or a phone that does video, or even a webcam on your computer, I'll say this: Take whatever song you think you can play the best, and record it and put it on youtube. Not next week, or even in a few days. Do it now (or if you have to worry about a sleeping family in the house, do it tomorrow as soon as you can). It doesn't matter if you think it is fantastic, what matters is that it is out there. It is a starting point. From then on, when people ask you about your music career, you can point them to that video. If you don't think that it came out that great, than use that as a challenge to yourself to make the next video better.
I don't know if you've heard of this musician named Justin Bieber, but he got his career going by posting youtube video's of himself singing.
Go do something like this right now! There's no reason you can't, and once you do, a chance at a music career is one step closer. Heck, if it's even half way decent than I'll give you a thumbs up on youtube, and then you'll have your first fan!
posted by markblasco at 10:22 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, and I realized I didn't really answer your questions in an explicit way:
Re busking. What I said already, also I think two things are key.
A) The L.E.S. might not be the best place. I feel like Manhattan already has sort of a set turf kind of arrangement, especially in Midtown and the big parks and subway stations, and you could easily get in trouble somewhere, whether it's because of territory or with the cops. I see a lot of younger people busking in Brooklyn, and also for some reason the W. 4th street station (there's this guy who gets a piano down there in the elevator sometimes - AMAZEBALLS). The L.E.S. also doesn't have a lot of parks or open space. I think the ideal place would be maybe in Grand Army Plaza or around the entrance to the Brooklyn Museum and the Botanical Gardens, or the big Brooklyn Library that's over there. Also ask at Greenmarkets if it's OK to busk there -- I've seen buskers working the markets before, and I bet you'd get money that way since people are milling around and have cash on hand.
B) The thing to know about busking is the repertoire, in my opinion. You either want songs that people don't know but which are catchy and awesome, or songs that people know and will enjoy hearing. Just don't be annoying, mostly.
Re open mics. I'm not sure you're 100% ready for the "big open mic" circuit in the sense of something that would pay, getting a "following", and all that. Definitely look around and try and sign up and just basically pound the shit out of the pavement. But you might want to start with Jam Nights, or maybe just smaller open mics where the ambition level is a little simpler. Get comfortable performing, develop your style, become confident. Play anywhere they'll let you play. THEN worry about fans and making a living and the "right" venues and all the rest.
Re "developing a career". Table the career issue for the time being. Just go play. You get summers off from school, I assume, so there's always the option to tour if you really want to. But don't feel like you have to, or anything. Do what you can do. As for music as a career, yeah, there might be a point where you're "paying your dues on the road" or whatever. But cross that bridge when you come to it. Don't sit home because you're afraid that you'd have to go on the road someday, you know?
posted by Sara C. at 10:23 PM on May 31, 2012
Re busking. What I said already, also I think two things are key.
A) The L.E.S. might not be the best place. I feel like Manhattan already has sort of a set turf kind of arrangement, especially in Midtown and the big parks and subway stations, and you could easily get in trouble somewhere, whether it's because of territory or with the cops. I see a lot of younger people busking in Brooklyn, and also for some reason the W. 4th street station (there's this guy who gets a piano down there in the elevator sometimes - AMAZEBALLS). The L.E.S. also doesn't have a lot of parks or open space. I think the ideal place would be maybe in Grand Army Plaza or around the entrance to the Brooklyn Museum and the Botanical Gardens, or the big Brooklyn Library that's over there. Also ask at Greenmarkets if it's OK to busk there -- I've seen buskers working the markets before, and I bet you'd get money that way since people are milling around and have cash on hand.
B) The thing to know about busking is the repertoire, in my opinion. You either want songs that people don't know but which are catchy and awesome, or songs that people know and will enjoy hearing. Just don't be annoying, mostly.
Re open mics. I'm not sure you're 100% ready for the "big open mic" circuit in the sense of something that would pay, getting a "following", and all that. Definitely look around and try and sign up and just basically pound the shit out of the pavement. But you might want to start with Jam Nights, or maybe just smaller open mics where the ambition level is a little simpler. Get comfortable performing, develop your style, become confident. Play anywhere they'll let you play. THEN worry about fans and making a living and the "right" venues and all the rest.
Re "developing a career". Table the career issue for the time being. Just go play. You get summers off from school, I assume, so there's always the option to tour if you really want to. But don't feel like you have to, or anything. Do what you can do. As for music as a career, yeah, there might be a point where you're "paying your dues on the road" or whatever. But cross that bridge when you come to it. Don't sit home because you're afraid that you'd have to go on the road someday, you know?
posted by Sara C. at 10:23 PM on May 31, 2012
Also for busking, I don't know if it is the same where you are, but in Seattle I believe you have to get a permit to play on the street in the city, so before you decide to actually go somewhere with a guitar and start playing, call the city to confirm whether or not the cops are going to shut you down.
posted by markblasco at 10:29 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by markblasco at 10:29 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Great, my first piece of advice would be to memorize the lyrics and music to the point where you can stare at the camera the entire length of the song without having to take your eyes away. If you look at American Idol, or any good performers, they are always making eye contact with the audience (or camera), and if you have to look down at the guitar or at a lyric sheet, that kills the energy that you get when making eye contact. I'm not saying that you should have a serial killer stare towards the camera the entire time, but you should never be looking away because you have to see something else.
So, for your next video, do one where you are looking at the camera the entire time. Try to connect the emotions of the song with the people watching you. Imagine you are singing to someone directly. This will help people connect with the performance.
posted by markblasco at 10:55 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
So, for your next video, do one where you are looking at the camera the entire time. Try to connect the emotions of the song with the people watching you. Imagine you are singing to someone directly. This will help people connect with the performance.
posted by markblasco at 10:55 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mark's been giving great advice. It sounds like you love music, but you can't devote your entire life to it. That's fine. In fact, that's great that you are figuring yourself out. That's what college time is for. It's better to realize you aren't truly into it before you really grind your youth and become bitter and jaded.
Get your degree. Eventually get a job that pays the bills. Save. You know what's great about having a college degree and a decent job? You can afford instruments. And strings. And gas money to get to a gig. You won't be out of luck if your amp breaks. There will always be time for music in your life if you make it so.
I speak from experience. I only got into playing in bands and gigging until after college, when I had a full time job. But I went from joining my first rock band with no experience (other than playing in jazz, orchestra, and marching bands in high school and college), cutting my teeth in various other groups and playing out, to eventually being in a band that played Warped Tour. So yes. You can totally have a regular job/life and still make music, play, and even tour. They call it weekend warrior because you can still be a rockstar on the weekends and get back to your 9-5 for your stable life.
Just never stop playing and push though it if you get frustrated. Good luck. :)
posted by xtine at 11:13 PM on May 31, 2012
Get your degree. Eventually get a job that pays the bills. Save. You know what's great about having a college degree and a decent job? You can afford instruments. And strings. And gas money to get to a gig. You won't be out of luck if your amp breaks. There will always be time for music in your life if you make it so.
I speak from experience. I only got into playing in bands and gigging until after college, when I had a full time job. But I went from joining my first rock band with no experience (other than playing in jazz, orchestra, and marching bands in high school and college), cutting my teeth in various other groups and playing out, to eventually being in a band that played Warped Tour. So yes. You can totally have a regular job/life and still make music, play, and even tour. They call it weekend warrior because you can still be a rockstar on the weekends and get back to your 9-5 for your stable life.
Just never stop playing and push though it if you get frustrated. Good luck. :)
posted by xtine at 11:13 PM on May 31, 2012
Best answer: And as for playing out. Check out coffee shops or bars or clubs that have open mic nights. Just check them out and see what the protocol is. Get a feeling for how it would go before you even entertain the idea of playing there. You probably won't make money, but you'll get experience just playing out. Be prepared to be nervous and self-conscious but the idea is that with practice you'll eventually get over it. Not everyone is going to listen or care. But sometimes you'll have someone that gets really into it that makes up for all that. Don't get too disappointed. Love the music.
Busking. Just take your guitar and play. Street corners. Anywhere. You'll get better responses if you play songs that people know (top 40 covers, beatles, classic rock, etc). People will tell you if you encroach on their space. You'll eventually figure out where you'll get more or less attention. And leave a tip jar. Don't expect anything other than loving the fact that you are playing.
Practice on YouTube. Check out other cover artists and try to imitate what they do. Lots of eye contact, don't jerk around too much, smile. Your first 10-20 videos won't be good. But your 50th will be wonderful. And they will get better. Everyone starts out awful. But everyone that sticks to it DOES get better. If you put the time, energy, and effort, it will pay off. Just keep practicing! Keep on recording. Put yourself out there.
Like others said, just do it! You'll never imagine how many people out there will support you. You just have to find the dedication to support yourself the most first.
posted by xtine at 11:22 PM on May 31, 2012
Busking. Just take your guitar and play. Street corners. Anywhere. You'll get better responses if you play songs that people know (top 40 covers, beatles, classic rock, etc). People will tell you if you encroach on their space. You'll eventually figure out where you'll get more or less attention. And leave a tip jar. Don't expect anything other than loving the fact that you are playing.
Practice on YouTube. Check out other cover artists and try to imitate what they do. Lots of eye contact, don't jerk around too much, smile. Your first 10-20 videos won't be good. But your 50th will be wonderful. And they will get better. Everyone starts out awful. But everyone that sticks to it DOES get better. If you put the time, energy, and effort, it will pay off. Just keep practicing! Keep on recording. Put yourself out there.
Like others said, just do it! You'll never imagine how many people out there will support you. You just have to find the dedication to support yourself the most first.
posted by xtine at 11:22 PM on May 31, 2012
A lot of great advice already, but I'd add one bit that hasn't been touched on too much - NETWORK.
Especially in NYC, there are a ton of bands, venues, college radio stations, local mags, newspapers, etc. I worked in college radio and we had a weekly show devoted to local music where we'd accept demos from anyone, play them on-air, and do lots of in-studio live shows. I'd imagine at least one or two of the stations in NYC must have something similar.
Also go to the local shows of other like-minded musicians. Talk to the bands after their gigs. You'll at least learn about the local music landscape from them, and you might end up with recording partners or finding a more famous act to open for. Open-mic nights may be better for getting used to being on stage, but opening for a band at a proper gig will get you more exposure to serious music fans. If you get some CDs or digital releases made, you can send them to local or online music mags for reviews/write-ups.
Youtube and internet are a great free way to self promote, but in NYC you also have a huge music scene all around you that you should be taking advantage of too.
posted by p3t3 at 12:27 AM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
Especially in NYC, there are a ton of bands, venues, college radio stations, local mags, newspapers, etc. I worked in college radio and we had a weekly show devoted to local music where we'd accept demos from anyone, play them on-air, and do lots of in-studio live shows. I'd imagine at least one or two of the stations in NYC must have something similar.
Also go to the local shows of other like-minded musicians. Talk to the bands after their gigs. You'll at least learn about the local music landscape from them, and you might end up with recording partners or finding a more famous act to open for. Open-mic nights may be better for getting used to being on stage, but opening for a band at a proper gig will get you more exposure to serious music fans. If you get some CDs or digital releases made, you can send them to local or online music mags for reviews/write-ups.
Youtube and internet are a great free way to self promote, but in NYC you also have a huge music scene all around you that you should be taking advantage of too.
posted by p3t3 at 12:27 AM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
professional musician and producer here.
you've got a nice voice, you play guitar well, and you're writing your own songs. all good. and i definitely hear some personality coming through your writing - "emergency exit" had a cool, interesting lil vibe to it. that's a great start!
that said: you seem a little shy in your videos. keep em coming, but work on being a little more confident. it would probably help to just get on stage, or if you do already, do it more. find a small open mic night with a sympathetic crowd and bask in the love, lights and applause - it's a buzz that feeds on itself, and as you get positive feedback, you'll hopefully gain confidence, which will improve your performance, which will get you even better audience feedback the next week, etc etc unfortunately i don't live in nyc so i can't help you find the right open mic night, but it's out there. go find it.
also, hate to say it but singer/songwriters with acoustic guitars are a dime a dozen. you might want to find your self a music partner in crime: either someone with a plethora of interesting instruments to play alongside you, or a band, or a laptop (give it a name, teach it to do cool backing tracks for you). try to do your thing, except in a style that doesn't exist yet, but should.
just my 2 cents.
ps. "I don't think there is anyone in their 40's or older who regrets spending a few more years in school than they would have liked" 43, and i kinda regret going to college. fun as it was. i'm a professional musician now, have been for 10 years, even though no one in my life honestly believed i'd actually make that happen. if i could do it over again, i'd give music making a serious shot for 5 years straight out of high school. if i was still getting nowhere at, say, 28 i'd go back and get a degree - peacefully, quietly. i'd enjoy it! knowing a music career wasn't for me. i mean, there's nothing stopping you from going to college in your late 20's, as long as you don't get your girlfriend pregnant anyway.
basically, you'll never know if it will work till you try it. it worked for me, but i wasted 10 years of my potential career hedging my bets so my parents didn't freak out. as it turns out, that time probably would have been netter used doing what i do now for a living: making music.
posted by messiahwannabe at 3:13 AM on June 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
you've got a nice voice, you play guitar well, and you're writing your own songs. all good. and i definitely hear some personality coming through your writing - "emergency exit" had a cool, interesting lil vibe to it. that's a great start!
that said: you seem a little shy in your videos. keep em coming, but work on being a little more confident. it would probably help to just get on stage, or if you do already, do it more. find a small open mic night with a sympathetic crowd and bask in the love, lights and applause - it's a buzz that feeds on itself, and as you get positive feedback, you'll hopefully gain confidence, which will improve your performance, which will get you even better audience feedback the next week, etc etc unfortunately i don't live in nyc so i can't help you find the right open mic night, but it's out there. go find it.
also, hate to say it but singer/songwriters with acoustic guitars are a dime a dozen. you might want to find your self a music partner in crime: either someone with a plethora of interesting instruments to play alongside you, or a band, or a laptop (give it a name, teach it to do cool backing tracks for you). try to do your thing, except in a style that doesn't exist yet, but should.
just my 2 cents.
ps. "I don't think there is anyone in their 40's or older who regrets spending a few more years in school than they would have liked"
basically, you'll never know if it will work till you try it. it worked for me, but i wasted 10 years of my potential career hedging my bets so my parents didn't freak out. as it turns out, that time probably would have been netter used doing what i do now for a living: making music.
posted by messiahwannabe at 3:13 AM on June 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Hey, chongnosall, moderator here. It's not really great to put links to your youtube stuff in the thread; you can go ahead and add those to your profile page under the part that asks about how you got your user name, and people can check out your profile to see them.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:11 AM on June 1, 2012
posted by taz (staff) at 4:11 AM on June 1, 2012
The good news: One thing that's dawned on me gradually as I get older is that doing something for a living is not the only way to do something seriously. Plenty of people have straightforward day jobs, but are awesomely accomplished at, and fulfilled by, something else that they do in their spare time. I've heard people speak at conferences about the most amazing projects they run, and then discovered that it's not what they do for a living.
So you might decide you're not going to try and make your music pay your bills, but that doesn't mean you're giving it up. You can still be an amazing musician and nurture your talent as a lifelong passion.
posted by penguin pie at 4:38 AM on June 1, 2012
So you might decide you're not going to try and make your music pay your bills, but that doesn't mean you're giving it up. You can still be an amazing musician and nurture your talent as a lifelong passion.
posted by penguin pie at 4:38 AM on June 1, 2012
I am a New York busker. (Note: I suck, which affects this advice.) I would find it very difficult to raise $150 - $200 per week. If I play for two hours I hope to make enough for pizza and a couple Gatorades. I've found other cities to be more hospitable for busking -- I made about 3x as much money in Copley Square in Boston than I've made anywhere in NYC in 8 years of performing.
I feel like Manhattan already has sort of a set turf kind of arrangement, especially in Midtown and the big parks and subway stations, and you could easily get in trouble somewhere, whether it's because of territory or with the cops.
Never found this to be true. If somebody wants to encroach on your territory around here, they just sit down and start playing until one of you gives in. (Sigh.) In my experience the cops are 100% disinterested in subway buskers, and will occasionally throw a quarter in. The only exception is the spaces that the MTA rents out to professional musicians in the subway (e.g., Times Square) -- these have signs on them, and I'm sure someone will bust you immediately.
The problems I experience:
(1) Not enough good spots. Most streets and subway stations in NYC are LOUD. You will struggle to be heard over traffic and trains. If you find a spot that isn't like this, it will already be full of performers (Washington Square Park and the like).
(2) No one is interested in original material. Revenues go up massively if I just play Bruce Springsteen and various songs in Spanish.
Anyway, just go out and see for yourself. You don't need to prepare -- I bring a little notebook with chords in it in case I want to try out a new song, but that's all I bring. Sometimes a milk crate. You'll get the idea quickly.
Postcrypt at Columbia has a great open mic night if you'd like to start with a kinder audience.
Oh, and stay the hell away from the 14th St 1/2/3 station, that's mine. :)
posted by zvs at 7:18 AM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
I feel like Manhattan already has sort of a set turf kind of arrangement, especially in Midtown and the big parks and subway stations, and you could easily get in trouble somewhere, whether it's because of territory or with the cops.
Never found this to be true. If somebody wants to encroach on your territory around here, they just sit down and start playing until one of you gives in. (Sigh.) In my experience the cops are 100% disinterested in subway buskers, and will occasionally throw a quarter in. The only exception is the spaces that the MTA rents out to professional musicians in the subway (e.g., Times Square) -- these have signs on them, and I'm sure someone will bust you immediately.
The problems I experience:
(1) Not enough good spots. Most streets and subway stations in NYC are LOUD. You will struggle to be heard over traffic and trains. If you find a spot that isn't like this, it will already be full of performers (Washington Square Park and the like).
(2) No one is interested in original material. Revenues go up massively if I just play Bruce Springsteen and various songs in Spanish.
Anyway, just go out and see for yourself. You don't need to prepare -- I bring a little notebook with chords in it in case I want to try out a new song, but that's all I bring. Sometimes a milk crate. You'll get the idea quickly.
Postcrypt at Columbia has a great open mic night if you'd like to start with a kinder audience.
Oh, and stay the hell away from the 14th St 1/2/3 station, that's mine. :)
posted by zvs at 7:18 AM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
the spaces that the MTA rents out to professional musicians in the subway (e.g., Times Square) -- these have signs on them, and I'm sure someone will bust you immediately.
Ah. I think this was the source of my speculation that the big midtown subway stations would attract the wrong sort of attention. I didn't realize those guys were pros renting space from the city.
And now that I know you're the 14th St 1/2/3, I'm going to come check you out...
posted by Sara C. at 9:50 AM on June 1, 2012
Ah. I think this was the source of my speculation that the big midtown subway stations would attract the wrong sort of attention. I didn't realize those guys were pros renting space from the city.
And now that I know you're the 14th St 1/2/3, I'm going to come check you out...
posted by Sara C. at 9:50 AM on June 1, 2012
for some reason the W. 4th street station (there's this guy who gets a piano down there in the elevator sometimes - AMAZEBALLS
That would be Colin Huggins, who plays in parks (often in the winter) and in the subway. He also used to have a day job as music director at the Joffrey Ballet School.
posted by kathryn at 11:07 AM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
That would be Colin Huggins, who plays in parks (often in the winter) and in the subway. He also used to have a day job as music director at the Joffrey Ballet School.
posted by kathryn at 11:07 AM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ah. I think this was the source of my speculation that the big midtown subway stations would attract the wrong sort of attention. I didn't realize those guys were pros renting space from the city.
Yeah. Even then you'd probably just be shooed away, not ticketed or anything. In Cambridge, MA, on the other hand...
And now that I know you're the 14th St 1/2/3, I'm going to come check you out...
Heh, whether I'm there or not, that station has fantastic regulars. One guy just plays weird back-catalog classic rock ("Open all night") on the L platform.
posted by zvs at 12:57 PM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah. Even then you'd probably just be shooed away, not ticketed or anything. In Cambridge, MA, on the other hand...
And now that I know you're the 14th St 1/2/3, I'm going to come check you out...
Heh, whether I'm there or not, that station has fantastic regulars. One guy just plays weird back-catalog classic rock ("Open all night") on the L platform.
posted by zvs at 12:57 PM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by vegartanipla at 7:47 PM on May 31, 2012