Wrestling with the ethics of outing my stepdaughter
May 15, 2012 4:38 PM Subscribe
Wrestling with the ethics of outing my stepdaughter to her mom.
On a business trip, discovered a folded note in my suitcase. It was a note my stepdaughter had written, a verse with references to Sapphos, and a request for friendship. It was sweet, but no mistaking the intention. I don't know how it ended up in my suitcase.
She'll be 16 soon, and seems fairly lonely. On the one hand, I don't want to invade her privacy, but I'm also thinking she needs support. We're not emotionally close, and I doubt that she wants me to know or would like to discuss things with me. Her mom, my wife, is fairly conservative and a Baptist, though she seems to get along with a gay couple in my extended family.
My main concern is my stepdaughter's welfare. I do have some concerns as to how my wife will react if she knew I was keeping this under my hat. Has anyone had similar experiences? Should I just proceed as if I hadn't seen the note?
On a business trip, discovered a folded note in my suitcase. It was a note my stepdaughter had written, a verse with references to Sapphos, and a request for friendship. It was sweet, but no mistaking the intention. I don't know how it ended up in my suitcase.
She'll be 16 soon, and seems fairly lonely. On the one hand, I don't want to invade her privacy, but I'm also thinking she needs support. We're not emotionally close, and I doubt that she wants me to know or would like to discuss things with me. Her mom, my wife, is fairly conservative and a Baptist, though she seems to get along with a gay couple in my extended family.
My main concern is my stepdaughter's welfare. I do have some concerns as to how my wife will react if she knew I was keeping this under my hat. Has anyone had similar experiences? Should I just proceed as if I hadn't seen the note?
Which is to say, not only does it sound like your stepdaughter has a better idea of the safety of being outed to your wife than you do, but there really wouldn't be that many healthy ways to support your step-daughter unbidden anyway.
She might be really worried about losing the poem, and I think it would be worth mentioning to her that you found it and are ready to support her in any way that you can, which includes not outing her behind her back.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:45 PM on May 15, 2012 [57 favorites]
She might be really worried about losing the poem, and I think it would be worth mentioning to her that you found it and are ready to support her in any way that you can, which includes not outing her behind her back.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:45 PM on May 15, 2012 [57 favorites]
On the one hand, I don't want to invade her privacy, but I'm also thinking she needs support. We're not emotionally close, and I doubt that she wants me to know or would like to discuss things with me.
Even if you're not emotionally close, do you ever talk to her about stuff like topics in the news? You could go at this in a kind of roundabout way. Like one thing you could do if you're ever chatting about the news is, say, bring up Obama's gay marriage support announcement, and say something like, "I was very happy he showed his support for gay marriage. It was about time." You don't need to directly allude to anything about her or make it about her in any way. And it is okay if it is kind of awkward when you start vocalizing overt support for gay people even if you have never really vocalized those things before. I just think if she hears you make enough of these comments, she will start thinking of you as someone she could talk to if she had to.
posted by cairdeas at 4:46 PM on May 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
Even if you're not emotionally close, do you ever talk to her about stuff like topics in the news? You could go at this in a kind of roundabout way. Like one thing you could do if you're ever chatting about the news is, say, bring up Obama's gay marriage support announcement, and say something like, "I was very happy he showed his support for gay marriage. It was about time." You don't need to directly allude to anything about her or make it about her in any way. And it is okay if it is kind of awkward when you start vocalizing overt support for gay people even if you have never really vocalized those things before. I just think if she hears you make enough of these comments, she will start thinking of you as someone she could talk to if she had to.
posted by cairdeas at 4:46 PM on May 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
Are you crazy? You don't out someone else, period. It's not your call.
posted by StrawberryPie at 4:47 PM on May 15, 2012 [65 favorites]
posted by StrawberryPie at 4:47 PM on May 15, 2012 [65 favorites]
Do not out your stepdaughter to your wife.
I do think you should talk to her, even if just once -- make it clear that you are ready to talk to her about it at any time, but if she's not ready to discuss it with you then let her know you will not bring it up again until she is ready.
posted by andrewesque at 4:48 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I do think you should talk to her, even if just once -- make it clear that you are ready to talk to her about it at any time, but if she's not ready to discuss it with you then let her know you will not bring it up again until she is ready.
posted by andrewesque at 4:48 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Should I just proceed as if I hadn't seen the note?
That is exactly what you do.
posted by mleigh at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2012 [13 favorites]
That is exactly what you do.
posted by mleigh at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2012 [13 favorites]
Dude, uncomfortable conversations are part of being a parent. Hand her the note, say "I think this belongs to you, if there's anything you want to talk about, I'm here for you," and then flee in terror like my mom did when she found my playboys hidden in the laundry room.
If you avoid discussing it with your stepdaughter but then discuss it with your wife so she will be forced to do it instead, when you already know your wife may not be supportive, I just... I'm not going to call you an asshole but it would be a pretty selfish thing to do.
If you really cannot bring yourself to discuss this with your stepdaughter at all, then pretend it never happened. Outing someone is never the answer.
posted by elizardbits at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2012 [83 favorites]
If you avoid discussing it with your stepdaughter but then discuss it with your wife so she will be forced to do it instead, when you already know your wife may not be supportive, I just... I'm not going to call you an asshole but it would be a pretty selfish thing to do.
If you really cannot bring yourself to discuss this with your stepdaughter at all, then pretend it never happened. Outing someone is never the answer.
posted by elizardbits at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2012 [83 favorites]
Love and accept your stepdaughter and make her feel safe just as you would if you had never seen the note. She'll come out when she's ready. Do NOT out her. That's potentially traumatic and really can damage the relationship you all have with each other.
posted by inturnaround at 4:50 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by inturnaround at 4:50 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Although you have good intentions, do not do this whatsoever. Coming out is typically a very emotionally terrifying time. It is not your place to do this. It is her life and her story. She has to do this on her own and when she is emotionally ready to do so.
I'd tell her even though it's difficult that you found a letter in your suitcase and that you thought it might belong to her. You owe her that much. It wouldn't be right to completely ignore this because she might fear that you saw the letter without knowing how to approach this...
Don't specify about what the letter stated. Just say that if she needs to talk to someone then she can talk to you and that you love her, that it's more than okay, and that you will be there for her. But, do NOT out her to her mother.
Once your stepdaughter is ready to come out to her mother, you can be the one to support her and the one that bridges communication between your wife and your stepdaughter.
posted by livinglearning at 4:52 PM on May 15, 2012
I'd tell her even though it's difficult that you found a letter in your suitcase and that you thought it might belong to her. You owe her that much. It wouldn't be right to completely ignore this because she might fear that you saw the letter without knowing how to approach this...
Don't specify about what the letter stated. Just say that if she needs to talk to someone then she can talk to you and that you love her, that it's more than okay, and that you will be there for her. But, do NOT out her to her mother.
Once your stepdaughter is ready to come out to her mother, you can be the one to support her and the one that bridges communication between your wife and your stepdaughter.
posted by livinglearning at 4:52 PM on May 15, 2012
This is not a topic that you will find very controversial here, its like not even a close.
Even if your wife isn't likely to disown her or kick her out of the house or anything profoundly tragic, it sounds like this would still be the kind of thing where your wife will need to go through some kind of process of acceptance. That should happen on your stepdaughter's time, not yours.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:52 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Even if your wife isn't likely to disown her or kick her out of the house or anything profoundly tragic, it sounds like this would still be the kind of thing where your wife will need to go through some kind of process of acceptance. That should happen on your stepdaughter's time, not yours.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:52 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I, um, found this note you wrote. I just want to let you know that I care about you, and if you ever want to talk about anything, I'll listen, and I won't judge, and I won't tell anyone else."
Do not come out on her behalf to anyone.
posted by rtha at 4:52 PM on May 15, 2012 [81 favorites]
Do not come out on her behalf to anyone.
posted by rtha at 4:52 PM on May 15, 2012 [81 favorites]
It sounds like YOUR reaction to this news is level-headed and accepting. Maybe you are wrong, and she would welcome a conversation with you about this. How long have you known your stepdaughter? Maybe she has already picked up on your open-minded attitude.
elizardbits' script sounds perfect to me. You COULD proceed as if you hadn't seen the note, but I think it would be more helpful to let her know that you've seen it, you're not going to freak out, and you're willing to talk to her if she wants.
And yes, do not do not out her, please.
posted by snorkmaiden at 4:54 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
elizardbits' script sounds perfect to me. You COULD proceed as if you hadn't seen the note, but I think it would be more helpful to let her know that you've seen it, you're not going to freak out, and you're willing to talk to her if she wants.
And yes, do not do not out her, please.
posted by snorkmaiden at 4:54 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I agree with everyone who said you should not out your stepdaughter, and that you should just return the note to her, but leave it up to her to discuss or not. I think if you don't return it, she will be tortured, wondering if her mother will see it and what kind of shitstorm is going to happen. I can imagine you might feel uncomfortable having this information and keeping it from your wife, I know I would be, but it's the right thing to do.
posted by upatree at 4:58 PM on May 15, 2012
posted by upatree at 4:58 PM on May 15, 2012
Best answer: 51-year-old lesbian here. I came out to my parents when I was 20, after bringing home a paper from college on "Homosexuality and the Bible". I left it on the kitchen table so there was nothing to find :).
But, I also learned as an adult that my mom had read my diary that I kept in high school and knew that I was suicidal and that I had come very close to committing suicide. She never talked to me about it. I wish she had been able to say something along the lines of rtha's script and get me help.
posted by elmay at 4:59 PM on May 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
But, I also learned as an adult that my mom had read my diary that I kept in high school and knew that I was suicidal and that I had come very close to committing suicide. She never talked to me about it. I wish she had been able to say something along the lines of rtha's script and get me help.
posted by elmay at 4:59 PM on May 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
Best answer: My sister outed me. I know she did it with all the best intentions - I was exhibiting signs of depression, talked about suicide, withdrew from my friends and family, etc. She told my mom, thinking she was helping me. Honestly, if she had just let me know that she loved me no matter what, things would have been much better. But, my mom freaked out...then my dad freaked out...then I was, for lack of a better word, disowned. I had almost no contact with my parents for the better part of a year. It was a mess. It would have been so much better if I had been able to come out on my own terms. So, what I am saying is this - do what my sister should have done: tell your stepdaughter that you love and support her. AND, tell her that her secret is safe with you. She needs to own her coming out process. No one should be forced to come out. Also, direct her to the It Gets Better Project...such an amazing project!!!
posted by AlliKat75 at 5:01 PM on May 15, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by AlliKat75 at 5:01 PM on May 15, 2012 [10 favorites]
Everybody seems to be assuming that she IS gay. One swallow does not make a summer, and all that - all we have here is a note written by a teenager and found by someone else. She may be gay, she may be just dealing with all the worries, uncertainties of being a teenager and dealing with sexuality and this note is only one part of that process. So lets not jump to any conclusions.
I vote for silence on the note, and supportive discussions on sexuality in the family setting.
posted by GeeEmm at 5:05 PM on May 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
I vote for silence on the note, and supportive discussions on sexuality in the family setting.
posted by GeeEmm at 5:05 PM on May 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
Her mom, my wife, is fairly conservative and a Baptist, though she seems to get along with a gay couple in my extended family.
In my experience, for people with that type of religious and social background, getting along with gay friends, coworkers, or cousins is NOT an indicator that a person will be accepting of a gay child. It's often a lot different (heartbreakingly different) when it's their own kid. I don't know your wife, maybe she'd be ok with her kid being gay, but I think the key details here are "fairly conservative and a Baptist" not "seems to get along with a gay couple."
Proceed as if you hadn't seen the note. You don't even really know what you saw. She might be gay, or bi, or questioning her sexuality, or feeling like she should be questioning her sexuality. Or it could have been a joke. Or it could have been... who knows what? Girls' friendships in high school can be intense and complicated. I'm not saying this is a phase or that you shouldn't believe her if she identifies a particular way, I'm just saying that this note is not enough information.
I think it's really great that you're cool with her being gay, and you might consider working on your relationship with her in hopes that she'll someday feel comfortable talking to you about these types of issues. But for now, you only have a teensy snippet of information and a huge reason not to say anything.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:07 PM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
In my experience, for people with that type of religious and social background, getting along with gay friends, coworkers, or cousins is NOT an indicator that a person will be accepting of a gay child. It's often a lot different (heartbreakingly different) when it's their own kid. I don't know your wife, maybe she'd be ok with her kid being gay, but I think the key details here are "fairly conservative and a Baptist" not "seems to get along with a gay couple."
Proceed as if you hadn't seen the note. You don't even really know what you saw. She might be gay, or bi, or questioning her sexuality, or feeling like she should be questioning her sexuality. Or it could have been a joke. Or it could have been... who knows what? Girls' friendships in high school can be intense and complicated. I'm not saying this is a phase or that you shouldn't believe her if she identifies a particular way, I'm just saying that this note is not enough information.
I think it's really great that you're cool with her being gay, and you might consider working on your relationship with her in hopes that she'll someday feel comfortable talking to you about these types of issues. But for now, you only have a teensy snippet of information and a huge reason not to say anything.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:07 PM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Terrible idea. Worst idea ever. I cringe at the thought of it, I want to shake you through the computer screen and shout "NO!!!" in your face.
Revealing this would be a MASSIVE violation of trust. It's something private that, for whatever reason, she isn't comfortable sharing yet. Even if you were 100% sure that your wife would be 100% accepting - and you're not - it would be a horrible thing to do to her.
I like rtha's response. It's supportive without being invasive. It leaves it up to her, but it lets her know that she has the option to talk to you, and that you won't judge and won't tell - two things she's likely to be worried about. She might also be worried where that note went, wondering if you have it and if you're going to blab.
By the way, getting along with a gay couple in one's extended family DOES NOT mean that you will be approving when your own kid comes out as gay. Politeness does not equal approval, and being okay with homosexuality among near-strangers does not equal being okay with homosexuality when it's your own kid and much more personal.
If she's not gay then revealing it to her mother would be a horrific farce. One poem isn't really a conclusive piece of evidence.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 5:07 PM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
Revealing this would be a MASSIVE violation of trust. It's something private that, for whatever reason, she isn't comfortable sharing yet. Even if you were 100% sure that your wife would be 100% accepting - and you're not - it would be a horrible thing to do to her.
I like rtha's response. It's supportive without being invasive. It leaves it up to her, but it lets her know that she has the option to talk to you, and that you won't judge and won't tell - two things she's likely to be worried about. She might also be worried where that note went, wondering if you have it and if you're going to blab.
By the way, getting along with a gay couple in one's extended family DOES NOT mean that you will be approving when your own kid comes out as gay. Politeness does not equal approval, and being okay with homosexuality among near-strangers does not equal being okay with homosexuality when it's your own kid and much more personal.
If she's not gay then revealing it to her mother would be a horrific farce. One poem isn't really a conclusive piece of evidence.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 5:07 PM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
I guess you could also put the note somewhere (in her room? in her purse?) where she is sure to find it, with a note of your own, instead of initiating an uncomfortable conversation. I worry that it might set in motion some horrible tragicomedy of errors wherein your wife/an unrelated third party finds both notes, though.
posted by elizardbits at 5:08 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by elizardbits at 5:08 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I just wanted to pipe in and say that, from a marital perspective, I'm conflicted about you keeping a secret from your wife.
Which is not to be interpreted as a vote for you to out her.
posted by MeiraV at 5:09 PM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
Which is not to be interpreted as a vote for you to out her.
posted by MeiraV at 5:09 PM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I have experience with this, from the being a lonely sixteen year old girl with a fondness for Sapphic quotes and requests for friendships with no one having any illusions about the intentions. I'm now a happily married decidedly hetero-normative person who realized that I love/loved, or crush/crushed on particular people regardless of their gender. One note does not a preference, a lifestyle or an identity make.
Discreetly return the note. Say nothing; or, or she's on tenterhooks, not much - rtha's response is pretty perfect. In all other aspects, on preview, what GeeEmm says.
posted by peagood at 5:10 PM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
Discreetly return the note. Say nothing; or, or she's on tenterhooks, not much - rtha's response is pretty perfect. In all other aspects, on preview, what GeeEmm says.
posted by peagood at 5:10 PM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
It sound like the mother would also be likely to respond negatively to same-sex experimentation or fantasies of same, so "Maybe she's not gay" seems pretty irrelevant.
I agree with everyone who says to return the note to her, tell her you haven't discussed it with her mother, and tell her you're there for her no matter what she might want to talk about.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:10 PM on May 15, 2012
I agree with everyone who says to return the note to her, tell her you haven't discussed it with her mother, and tell her you're there for her no matter what she might want to talk about.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:10 PM on May 15, 2012
Don't say nothing. Tell her you found it, and tell her you didn't discuss it with her mother.
As for "keeping secrets from your wife" being a bad thing, this isn't the OP's story to tell. He found the note by accident. A 16-year-old is entitled to some degree of privacy.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:13 PM on May 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
As for "keeping secrets from your wife" being a bad thing, this isn't the OP's story to tell. He found the note by accident. A 16-year-old is entitled to some degree of privacy.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:13 PM on May 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think not telling a secret like this that's not yours to tell outweighs not keeping it a secret from your wife. Disclaimer: I'm not married.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:17 PM on May 15, 2012
posted by J. Wilson at 5:17 PM on May 15, 2012
With teenagers, it's not that rare for one parent to know something the other parent doesn't.
I would give her back the note and somehow convey that whatever is going on with that part of her life, you are a safe person to come to when she needs support, and you won't tell anyone else unless she wants you to.
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:21 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I would give her back the note and somehow convey that whatever is going on with that part of her life, you are a safe person to come to when she needs support, and you won't tell anyone else unless she wants you to.
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:21 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Maybe she's not gay" seems pretty irrelevant.
I think it's relevant in that her having enough privacy to figure this stuff out for herself is really important. "Outing" her now based on the information you have is a bad idea: if she is gay, it could turn out really badly, but if she isn't gay, it could create a whole new bad situation. Mom freaking out about the possibility that you're gay makes it that much harder to sort out your feelings and identity.
Of course, it would also be a terrible idea to out her to Mom if the note said, "I am completely certain that I'm a lesbian," but I think that would be a different kind of terrible.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:22 PM on May 15, 2012
I think it's relevant in that her having enough privacy to figure this stuff out for herself is really important. "Outing" her now based on the information you have is a bad idea: if she is gay, it could turn out really badly, but if she isn't gay, it could create a whole new bad situation. Mom freaking out about the possibility that you're gay makes it that much harder to sort out your feelings and identity.
Of course, it would also be a terrible idea to out her to Mom if the note said, "I am completely certain that I'm a lesbian," but I think that would be a different kind of terrible.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:22 PM on May 15, 2012
Yeah, jumping in to say that notes can be a lot of different things, and it's not definitive. My mom once found a note where a weird friend of mine joked about the "cult" that my high school boyfriend was in - making no mention that it was actually the Christian youth group at the local church where his dad was the pastor - and it set off a lot of crazy family drama.
I've also asked my mom not to tell my dad stuff about me, and when she inevitably does, it always bothers me. The problem is that once you tell someone something, it's no longer yours - there's a whole theory about this called Communication Privacy Management, which is really interesting but probably not helpful to go into in great detail here. I will say that part of the problem here is that your stepdaughter is not quite a kid and not quite an adult (something that CPM-based research investigates a lot!) so the information/privacy issue is harder - and it's complicated by the fact [PDF] that she's your stepdaughter, too. If she was 8 and something happened, you'd mention it to her mom. If she was 45, you probably wouldn't. But 16 is a weird age; lots of transition. Plus, she didn't tell you the information, you found it out (maybe), which makes it even more complex.
Anyhow, the "hand her the note, say you're always there for her if she wants to talk, and move on" scenario really does sound best.
posted by k8lin at 5:33 PM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
I've also asked my mom not to tell my dad stuff about me, and when she inevitably does, it always bothers me. The problem is that once you tell someone something, it's no longer yours - there's a whole theory about this called Communication Privacy Management, which is really interesting but probably not helpful to go into in great detail here. I will say that part of the problem here is that your stepdaughter is not quite a kid and not quite an adult (something that CPM-based research investigates a lot!) so the information/privacy issue is harder - and it's complicated by the fact [PDF] that she's your stepdaughter, too. If she was 8 and something happened, you'd mention it to her mom. If she was 45, you probably wouldn't. But 16 is a weird age; lots of transition. Plus, she didn't tell you the information, you found it out (maybe), which makes it even more complex.
Anyhow, the "hand her the note, say you're always there for her if she wants to talk, and move on" scenario really does sound best.
posted by k8lin at 5:33 PM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
Ethics of Outing 101: Don't do it. Ever.
posted by Garm at 5:36 PM on May 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Garm at 5:36 PM on May 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
Should I just proceed as if I hadn't seen the note?
Proceed as if you inadvertently saw a note that wasn't written to you and doesn't necessarily mean anything in particular, because that's what happened. You saw a note that might have been by your 15-year-old stepdaughter, or might have been by someone else. It had an apparent reference to lesbians. Someone can refer to lesbians without being gay. For instance, everyone in this thread is referring to lesbians, but not all of us are gay. There is no dilemma about whether or not to reveal some huge secret to your wife, because you didn't find out a huge secret. You just saw a note by a teenager. Teenagers write down all sorts of things, and they aren't always making a definitively, literally true statement.
posted by John Cohen at 5:42 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Proceed as if you inadvertently saw a note that wasn't written to you and doesn't necessarily mean anything in particular, because that's what happened. You saw a note that might have been by your 15-year-old stepdaughter, or might have been by someone else. It had an apparent reference to lesbians. Someone can refer to lesbians without being gay. For instance, everyone in this thread is referring to lesbians, but not all of us are gay. There is no dilemma about whether or not to reveal some huge secret to your wife, because you didn't find out a huge secret. You just saw a note by a teenager. Teenagers write down all sorts of things, and they aren't always making a definitively, literally true statement.
posted by John Cohen at 5:42 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think not telling a secret like this that's not yours to tell outweighs not keeping it a secret from your wife. Disclaimer: I'm not married.
I am married, and I tend to believe that you just shouldn't tell one member of a marriage something they can't tell their spouse(s), and I don't think you should tell your wife. It's not your secret to tell -- it wouldn't even be a violation of trust, because she didn't trust you with it in the first place. It would just be a flagrant intrusion.
I'm a big fan of communication, though, and a simple "I found this, I think it's yours, if there's anything you'd like to talk to me about, I want you to know I'm here for you," sounds like a decent approach to me.
Consider that, if she is a lesbian, there's not much additional that, as adults, you need to protect her from other than homophobia. It's not like there are a lot of new action items like there might be if she were, say, pregnant. Most of what there is to be worried about is making sure she feels -- and is -- safe and loved at home, which is not something you can accomplish by outing her against her will to her mother.
posted by endless_forms at 5:44 PM on May 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
I am married, and I tend to believe that you just shouldn't tell one member of a marriage something they can't tell their spouse(s), and I don't think you should tell your wife. It's not your secret to tell -- it wouldn't even be a violation of trust, because she didn't trust you with it in the first place. It would just be a flagrant intrusion.
I'm a big fan of communication, though, and a simple "I found this, I think it's yours, if there's anything you'd like to talk to me about, I want you to know I'm here for you," sounds like a decent approach to me.
Consider that, if she is a lesbian, there's not much additional that, as adults, you need to protect her from other than homophobia. It's not like there are a lot of new action items like there might be if she were, say, pregnant. Most of what there is to be worried about is making sure she feels -- and is -- safe and loved at home, which is not something you can accomplish by outing her against her will to her mother.
posted by endless_forms at 5:44 PM on May 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Nthing Sidhedevil....also get in touch with your local PFLAG.
posted by brujita at 5:48 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by brujita at 5:48 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: In high school, my friend gave a copy of the lyrics to the Liz Phair song "Flower", to the boy I was seeing. His mother snooped and found the lyrics, and assumed they were a poem that I had written for her son.
Both of our mothers proceded to LAY WASTE to our lives, despite that we had never even gone beyond kissing. (Also despite that I didn't write "Flower", and it is hilarious that they though I did.) It was incredibly traumatic for both of us, and our moms were only assuming that we were having standard heterosexual teenage sex. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be outed to a homophobic parent. Let alone to be outed by my other parent, who had read something of mine that was private and none of their business.
So, no, do not out her. The note may indicate she is a lesbian, or it may not. But it doesn't matter either way. This is not your secret to tell. Don't wreck this girl's life when she still has to live in your house for a few more years at the least.
posted by Coatlicue at 5:52 PM on May 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
Both of our mothers proceded to LAY WASTE to our lives, despite that we had never even gone beyond kissing. (Also despite that I didn't write "Flower", and it is hilarious that they though I did.) It was incredibly traumatic for both of us, and our moms were only assuming that we were having standard heterosexual teenage sex. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be outed to a homophobic parent. Let alone to be outed by my other parent, who had read something of mine that was private and none of their business.
So, no, do not out her. The note may indicate she is a lesbian, or it may not. But it doesn't matter either way. This is not your secret to tell. Don't wreck this girl's life when she still has to live in your house for a few more years at the least.
posted by Coatlicue at 5:52 PM on May 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
My first thought was that she left it in there for you to find...
posted by waitangi at 5:58 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by waitangi at 5:58 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Do not tell your wife. Give your step-daughter her note back. Say something vaguely supportive if you feel the need. Basically what everyone above says.
But I think something you could do that would go towards helping things in the future is using your position as husband to put out feelers for your wife's possible reaction to a coming out. Absolutely do not let on that it has anything to do with her daughter, and don't even couch it in loose hypotheticals. Just once in a while (like, once every two weeks. Not in a big chunk!) ask a question or have a discussion so you can get an idea of what she actually thinks about homosexuality, instead of just assuming things because of her various cultural facets. The recent Obama gay marriage stuff is a good place to start. Then, if in the future, your step-daughter sees you as an ally, you can help her out by figuring out how best to let her mom know, and how best to back her up.
For now, though, it's your step-daughter's secret to keep.
posted by Mizu at 5:59 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
But I think something you could do that would go towards helping things in the future is using your position as husband to put out feelers for your wife's possible reaction to a coming out. Absolutely do not let on that it has anything to do with her daughter, and don't even couch it in loose hypotheticals. Just once in a while (like, once every two weeks. Not in a big chunk!) ask a question or have a discussion so you can get an idea of what she actually thinks about homosexuality, instead of just assuming things because of her various cultural facets. The recent Obama gay marriage stuff is a good place to start. Then, if in the future, your step-daughter sees you as an ally, you can help her out by figuring out how best to let her mom know, and how best to back her up.
For now, though, it's your step-daughter's secret to keep.
posted by Mizu at 5:59 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
When I was 16, the thing I wanted most in the world was for all the adults in my life to wink out of existence so I could be left the hell alone. They'd leave behind their money and cars and stuff, of course. I didn't say this was a realistic fantasy.
So, to be confronted by an adult like this? Just ... don't.
Pretend you never saw this note and move on.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:00 PM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
So, to be confronted by an adult like this? Just ... don't.
Pretend you never saw this note and move on.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:00 PM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
You mention that you're not emotionally close to her. I assume this means you're on good terms, but you don't have heart-to-hearts.
Just wanted to say, that is ok, you don't need to have a big emotional talk.
Just let her know you've got her back on this, in whatever way makes sense for your actual relationship. "I saw this, you can count on me as a safe person if you need someone to talk to, I won't mention it to anyone" is like "I'll give you a ride home at any hour, no questions asked, you can always call me if you feel unsafe". She might be mortified to address her love life with you, but even so, it's a good thing for a teenager to know that if things hit the fan, you are on her side.
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:04 PM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Just wanted to say, that is ok, you don't need to have a big emotional talk.
Just let her know you've got her back on this, in whatever way makes sense for your actual relationship. "I saw this, you can count on me as a safe person if you need someone to talk to, I won't mention it to anyone" is like "I'll give you a ride home at any hour, no questions asked, you can always call me if you feel unsafe". She might be mortified to address her love life with you, but even so, it's a good thing for a teenager to know that if things hit the fan, you are on her side.
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:04 PM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Pretend you never saw this note and move on.
Here's the thing about this. If he pretends he never saw the note, and she realizes the note is missing, then she might (I would have at this age) lose sleep worrying about WHAT IF MOM FOUND THE NOTE AND SHE IS GOING TO CALL EXORCISTS AND SEND ME TO ONE OF THOSE CHRISTIAN BOOT CAMP SCHOOLS whether she's gay or bi or questioning or just likes Sappho's poetry.
So, he knows her, we don't, but if she's the kind of kid who would worry, then please tell her you found the note, and that you didn't discuss it with her mom.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:10 PM on May 15, 2012 [13 favorites]
Here's the thing about this. If he pretends he never saw the note, and she realizes the note is missing, then she might (I would have at this age) lose sleep worrying about WHAT IF MOM FOUND THE NOTE AND SHE IS GOING TO CALL EXORCISTS AND SEND ME TO ONE OF THOSE CHRISTIAN BOOT CAMP SCHOOLS whether she's gay or bi or questioning or just likes Sappho's poetry.
So, he knows her, we don't, but if she's the kind of kid who would worry, then please tell her you found the note, and that you didn't discuss it with her mom.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:10 PM on May 15, 2012 [13 favorites]
You're not that close, but you're absolutely sure that this note means that she is definitely gay, rather than bisexual, or questioning, or just sentimental, or any other of a thousand possibilities. And you think that she needs support and seems lonely, so you're considering outing her to her conservative, Baptist mother.
I'm sorry, but this does not add up at all.
You're not keeping anything under your hat by not sharing this note with your wife, because you have no idea what this note means.
posted by desuetude at 6:39 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, but this does not add up at all.
You're not keeping anything under your hat by not sharing this note with your wife, because you have no idea what this note means.
posted by desuetude at 6:39 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It seems like everyone has got it covered here, but a small data point:
I haven't even begun to discuss gender and sexuality with my mum, who is also conservative and Baptist. She swears up and down that she's an ally, but I know better than anyone that being so much as toe out in front of her changes things. Your wife could very well socialize with folks across the sexuality spectrum, but have a strict "but not in my family" policy. Or if she believes that not being straight is equal to any sin from adultery to murder, it'll create a constant tension between her and her daughter. I know that in my experience, this meant that attending church, despite my agnostic status, suddenly became mandatory. As did prayer. As did the very awkward, frequent attempts to get me to out other people in conversation. *shudder*
All of this can be avoided by simply handing the letter back *when mum isn't around,* saying "hey I'm around if you ever need to talk!" and vanishing. Exit via the use of smoke pellets is preferable.
posted by Ashen at 7:03 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I haven't even begun to discuss gender and sexuality with my mum, who is also conservative and Baptist. She swears up and down that she's an ally, but I know better than anyone that being so much as toe out in front of her changes things. Your wife could very well socialize with folks across the sexuality spectrum, but have a strict "but not in my family" policy. Or if she believes that not being straight is equal to any sin from adultery to murder, it'll create a constant tension between her and her daughter. I know that in my experience, this meant that attending church, despite my agnostic status, suddenly became mandatory. As did prayer. As did the very awkward, frequent attempts to get me to out other people in conversation. *shudder*
All of this can be avoided by simply handing the letter back *when mum isn't around,* saying "hey I'm around if you ever need to talk!" and vanishing. Exit via the use of smoke pellets is preferable.
posted by Ashen at 7:03 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It is unethical to out someone, period. If you did this it would be an immense violation of her privacy and would seriously damage your relationship with her.
posted by OsoMeaty at 7:18 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by OsoMeaty at 7:18 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Could it be she "accidentally" left the note for you to find? Assuming she did, it sounds like she wants you to know but wasn't ready to come out face to face. Again, assuming she put it there on purpose (sounds like something I would do) she may be stressing out waiting for your response. Since you don't know, you may want to address it sooner than later. But don't out her---just hand her the note and tell her you're there for her should she want to talk. (A hug can go a long way too!)
posted by 2Lincolns at 7:28 PM on May 15, 2012
posted by 2Lincolns at 7:28 PM on May 15, 2012
It is unethical to out someone, period.
this isn't about a public outing, this is about parents talking about their child, amongst themselves.
posted by compound eye at 8:51 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
this isn't about a public outing, this is about parents talking about their child, amongst themselves.
posted by compound eye at 8:51 PM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Uh. I hate to break this to you, but you actually have (at least) three dilemmas, and none of them have anything to do with evidence that your step-daughter might be gay.
Dilemma 1. You're married to someone and you don't know how she'll respond to having a gay child. You hope she'll be supportive, but you're not sure. This is very good information to have when you're married.
Dilemma 2. You don't sound like you have a particularly close relationship with your step-daughter. Start figuring out ways to make this better, get help if you need it. This will make dilemma 3 clearer.
Dilemma 3: You sense you have a lonely child on your hands. You will not know if this is true or how to help her until you know her better and are closer to her.
My suggestion would be to address the above first and worry about the outing question later.
If she is gay and her mother does not respond well, who will be her emotional cushion? She'll need several. It won't be you and it won't be mom. Tend to your step-daughter first and what, if anything, to tell your wife will follow....later.
posted by space_cookie at 8:53 PM on May 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Dilemma 1. You're married to someone and you don't know how she'll respond to having a gay child. You hope she'll be supportive, but you're not sure. This is very good information to have when you're married.
Dilemma 2. You don't sound like you have a particularly close relationship with your step-daughter. Start figuring out ways to make this better, get help if you need it. This will make dilemma 3 clearer.
Dilemma 3: You sense you have a lonely child on your hands. You will not know if this is true or how to help her until you know her better and are closer to her.
My suggestion would be to address the above first and worry about the outing question later.
If she is gay and her mother does not respond well, who will be her emotional cushion? She'll need several. It won't be you and it won't be mom. Tend to your step-daughter first and what, if anything, to tell your wife will follow....later.
posted by space_cookie at 8:53 PM on May 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Burn the note until nothing is left but ashes. Take the secret to the grave if necessary.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:35 PM on May 15, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 9:35 PM on May 15, 2012
My mom and stepdad thought I was gay until I was about 25 because I never brought any of the girls I dated home until then, and I didn't feel like discussing my personal life with them. Have you considered that you may simply be wrong? You're basing a lot of assumptions on one poem.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 10:30 PM on May 15, 2012
posted by wolfdreams01 at 10:30 PM on May 15, 2012
this isn't about a public outing, this is about parents talking about their child, amongst themselves.
It's unethical to leap to conclusions about a sixteen-year-old's sexual orientation based on an accidental glimpse of personal correspondence and then share it as proof of alleged gayness with her mother.
Sixteen-year-olds certainly require active parenting, but this isn't an issue of keeping a child out of harm's way.
posted by desuetude at 10:49 PM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
It's unethical to leap to conclusions about a sixteen-year-old's sexual orientation based on an accidental glimpse of personal correspondence and then share it as proof of alleged gayness with her mother.
Sixteen-year-olds certainly require active parenting, but this isn't an issue of keeping a child out of harm's way.
posted by desuetude at 10:49 PM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
She might not be gay, but you know she's lonely.
Not mentioning the note is a terrible idea. Gay kids are at a much higher risk for suicide, depression and risky behavior when they feel like they are unsupported. She might be gay, AND a terrified mess because she doesn't know that there is someone in her family that won't flip their shit.
Don't tell mom, but please don't just ignore the note. If she just likes poetry, a little "I support you no matter what and I won't tell your mom" will be a little embarrassing. If she is gay- it could be a lifeline.
regardless of her sexuality, vocally supporting gay rights and vocally opposing gay-bulling is a good idea. She is at least going to come into contact with gay kids, and all kids need an adult in their lives that shows them how to behave with kindness.
Personal experience- my aunt is gay and was in the closet for most of early adult life. This was in the eighties and a small midwestern town. Her terror, loneliness and isolation translated into drug abuse and other scary behaviors that continue to have repercussions now. Her family refused to acknowledged any of the behavior because they didn't want to know about or appear to support her lesbianism. I wish there had been an adult in her early life understand enough to help her not self destruct.
posted by Blisterlips at 6:28 AM on May 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Not mentioning the note is a terrible idea. Gay kids are at a much higher risk for suicide, depression and risky behavior when they feel like they are unsupported. She might be gay, AND a terrified mess because she doesn't know that there is someone in her family that won't flip their shit.
Don't tell mom, but please don't just ignore the note. If she just likes poetry, a little "I support you no matter what and I won't tell your mom" will be a little embarrassing. If she is gay- it could be a lifeline.
regardless of her sexuality, vocally supporting gay rights and vocally opposing gay-bulling is a good idea. She is at least going to come into contact with gay kids, and all kids need an adult in their lives that shows them how to behave with kindness.
Personal experience- my aunt is gay and was in the closet for most of early adult life. This was in the eighties and a small midwestern town. Her terror, loneliness and isolation translated into drug abuse and other scary behaviors that continue to have repercussions now. Her family refused to acknowledged any of the behavior because they didn't want to know about or appear to support her lesbianism. I wish there had been an adult in her early life understand enough to help her not self destruct.
posted by Blisterlips at 6:28 AM on May 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Burn the note until nothing is left but ashes. Take the secret to the grave if necessary.
Please, don't burn things, especially papers that don't belong to you. Not related to outing but I recently had to revisit the fallout from a "burn all papers, take secret to grave" incident in my own family. Said burning of the papers caused the person who was the subject of those papers to create a horribly speculative narrative and systematically accused family member after family member about the contents of said papers and that secret. So much psychological damage, so much atomization of family ties that I, who had nothing to do with any of this (before I was born, by decades), am estranged from that family with zero hope of ever repairing the damage.
The aspect of this that troubles you is "keeping the secret" from your wife. I would argue this is NOT a secret, at least not YOUR secret. You have no idea what you found because it is not yours. Return it to it's rightful owner (your stepdaughter) with no fanfare, and as quickly as possible so that she doesn't freak out if, indeed, this is a big hatpin that she is a lesbian. A sincere, brief "I have no idea how this ended up in my suitcase, but is this yours? I apologize that I read the content before realizing it was not something of mine. I will not divulge the contents, consider it as though I've never seen it before. I will be glad to talk to you if you do, and talking to me will always be in strict confidence."
After that, do not discuss again unless she initiates. Thank you for checking in with other people before making a decision that could have had devastating consequences for a lot of people in your family!
posted by kuppajava at 6:58 AM on May 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Please, don't burn things, especially papers that don't belong to you. Not related to outing but I recently had to revisit the fallout from a "burn all papers, take secret to grave" incident in my own family. Said burning of the papers caused the person who was the subject of those papers to create a horribly speculative narrative and systematically accused family member after family member about the contents of said papers and that secret. So much psychological damage, so much atomization of family ties that I, who had nothing to do with any of this (before I was born, by decades), am estranged from that family with zero hope of ever repairing the damage.
The aspect of this that troubles you is "keeping the secret" from your wife. I would argue this is NOT a secret, at least not YOUR secret. You have no idea what you found because it is not yours. Return it to it's rightful owner (your stepdaughter) with no fanfare, and as quickly as possible so that she doesn't freak out if, indeed, this is a big hatpin that she is a lesbian. A sincere, brief "I have no idea how this ended up in my suitcase, but is this yours? I apologize that I read the content before realizing it was not something of mine. I will not divulge the contents, consider it as though I've never seen it before. I will be glad to talk to you if you do, and talking to me will always be in strict confidence."
After that, do not discuss again unless she initiates. Thank you for checking in with other people before making a decision that could have had devastating consequences for a lot of people in your family!
posted by kuppajava at 6:58 AM on May 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Nthing the idea that she might not be gay - or just might not have worked out what her sexuality was yet. I had so many crushes on other girls when I was a teenager, and I actually did wonder for a while if I was bisexual. But those crushes faded as I got older and I realized that most of them were aspirational rather than sexual - I crushed on those girls because they had some quality I admired or wanted for myself. Anyway, I've been pretty much exclusively attracted to men since my late teens.
This was actually a prominent trope in literature for a long time. Google "Victorian romantic friendship" for some examples. There have always been young women who had romantic-seeming feelings towards their female friends, and I don't necessarily think it was always a case of suppressed lesbianism.
That's not to say that she isn't gay, just that it's pretty hard to know for sure from just one little note. And if she is going through a process of figuring out her sexuality, then she deserves to be able to do that on her own terms and timeline, without having to deal with the potential of drama about this from her mother. Such interference could be really disruptive to this process.
Definitely agree, though, that you should give her the note back with a low-key, "I'm here to talk whenever you want." Just because you're not close now doesn't mean that you couldn't ever be, and no matter what, it will probably help her to know that you want to support her.
posted by the essence of class and fanciness at 10:17 AM on May 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
This was actually a prominent trope in literature for a long time. Google "Victorian romantic friendship" for some examples. There have always been young women who had romantic-seeming feelings towards their female friends, and I don't necessarily think it was always a case of suppressed lesbianism.
That's not to say that she isn't gay, just that it's pretty hard to know for sure from just one little note. And if she is going through a process of figuring out her sexuality, then she deserves to be able to do that on her own terms and timeline, without having to deal with the potential of drama about this from her mother. Such interference could be really disruptive to this process.
Definitely agree, though, that you should give her the note back with a low-key, "I'm here to talk whenever you want." Just because you're not close now doesn't mean that you couldn't ever be, and no matter what, it will probably help her to know that you want to support her.
posted by the essence of class and fanciness at 10:17 AM on May 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Don't out her, she knows how homophobic your wife may be better than you do. Apart from it never being ethical to out someone before they want to talk about it, why on earth would you expose her to her mother's possible feelings of disgust or anger?
If you're concerned for your stepdaughter's welfare, make damn sure you know exactly what you're dealing with in your wife. And try to fix it, so that if your stepdaughter does come out in a couple of years you know you've done your best to make it as easy as possible for her. Don't let your love blind you to the probability that your wife knowing might be actively bad for her daughter.
(Speaking as queer girl who made damn sure she didn't come out to her religious parents until she was at university, because I knew I didn't have the emotional resources to handle their bullshit as a teenager.)
posted by pickingupsticks at 12:44 PM on May 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you're concerned for your stepdaughter's welfare, make damn sure you know exactly what you're dealing with in your wife. And try to fix it, so that if your stepdaughter does come out in a couple of years you know you've done your best to make it as easy as possible for her. Don't let your love blind you to the probability that your wife knowing might be actively bad for her daughter.
(Speaking as queer girl who made damn sure she didn't come out to her religious parents until she was at university, because I knew I didn't have the emotional resources to handle their bullshit as a teenager.)
posted by pickingupsticks at 12:44 PM on May 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Outing was a poor choice of terms on my part chosen for brevity.
Thanks for everyone who answered; especially grateful for those who responded from personal experience.
I'm trying to figure out how to return the note surreptitiously; I sincerely think she would be mortified if she knew I knew of the note's existence. At this point Irealize I really don't know anything, and will just keep the door open for her.
posted by coldhotel at 5:06 AM on May 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thanks for everyone who answered; especially grateful for those who responded from personal experience.
I'm trying to figure out how to return the note surreptitiously; I sincerely think she would be mortified if she knew I knew of the note's existence. At this point Irealize I really don't know anything, and will just keep the door open for her.
posted by coldhotel at 5:06 AM on May 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I would hand it to her and say, "Here I think maybe this is yours. I looked at it and realized it wasn't any of my business. But if you ever have stuff you want to talk about, you're always welcome no matter what."
posted by straight at 10:15 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by straight at 10:15 PM on May 21, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:42 PM on May 15, 2012 [30 favorites]