Hitting a lowball out of the park?
April 29, 2012 11:26 AM Subscribe
What is the optimal way to respond to a low ball salary offer? Situation specifics inside.
About to join the real-world workforce. Had an interview the other night; expect to have an offer shortly. Expect (with reason) to get pitched a really low ball salary offer. I'm sort of planning on going with an 'incredulous, with a hint of "are you joking"' facial expression, but I've never been in this sort of situation before and am wondering what best practice is for the initial react and subsequent negotiation steps.
Relevant personal details:
-I don't love this job but it seems to be the most promising position in the geographical location I'm bound to for the foreseeable future; therefore, I'm willing to push back pretty hard but don't want to completely alienate.
-Small business, they need somebody to fill in behind a retiree, and it's a fairly niche market, so I expect they'll be sort of hard up. That being said, hiring a new person on will not necessarily be essential to their business so I can't be a total asshole.
-Being a niche sort of thing, I have a general idea of what 'market value' is roughly, but it's not extremely well-defined. If they ask me to make a counter-request to their offer, should it be as far above the 'perceived market average' as their initial offer was below (i.e., should I be trying to do some sort of negotiation to the mean)? Or, obviously being in the less powerful position, would this be over the top and insulting to go that high?
Thanks in advance. Sorry if the subtext of this question seems a little cavalier in such a shitty economy, but, for what it's worth this job is very likely going to suck a lot and I can't stand the thought of getting totally hosed on the money front too.
About to join the real-world workforce. Had an interview the other night; expect to have an offer shortly. Expect (with reason) to get pitched a really low ball salary offer. I'm sort of planning on going with an 'incredulous, with a hint of "are you joking"' facial expression, but I've never been in this sort of situation before and am wondering what best practice is for the initial react and subsequent negotiation steps.
Relevant personal details:
-I don't love this job but it seems to be the most promising position in the geographical location I'm bound to for the foreseeable future; therefore, I'm willing to push back pretty hard but don't want to completely alienate.
-Small business, they need somebody to fill in behind a retiree, and it's a fairly niche market, so I expect they'll be sort of hard up. That being said, hiring a new person on will not necessarily be essential to their business so I can't be a total asshole.
-Being a niche sort of thing, I have a general idea of what 'market value' is roughly, but it's not extremely well-defined. If they ask me to make a counter-request to their offer, should it be as far above the 'perceived market average' as their initial offer was below (i.e., should I be trying to do some sort of negotiation to the mean)? Or, obviously being in the less powerful position, would this be over the top and insulting to go that high?
Thanks in advance. Sorry if the subtext of this question seems a little cavalier in such a shitty economy, but, for what it's worth this job is very likely going to suck a lot and I can't stand the thought of getting totally hosed on the money front too.
Best answer: I think working to find as much data as possible, in order to support your claim of what market value is, is gong to go a long way. If you can say "company x in y is offering this, company z is paying that etc", you're going to look a lot more credible in your counter offer. It sounds like direct comparisons might be tricky, but the more close parallels etc. you can find the better. You don't have to trot those figures out straight-away, though. You might want to save them until you need them.
Remember that you don't have to negotiate to a mid-point, but it doesn't sound like you can afford to put them in a position of having to back down from a stated hard limit. If you need them more than they need you, you can't really make a "take it or leave it" statement. Give them room to move and be seen to be willing to compromise.
posted by howfar at 11:36 AM on April 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
Remember that you don't have to negotiate to a mid-point, but it doesn't sound like you can afford to put them in a position of having to back down from a stated hard limit. If you need them more than they need you, you can't really make a "take it or leave it" statement. Give them room to move and be seen to be willing to compromise.
posted by howfar at 11:36 AM on April 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm sort of planning on going with an 'incredulous, with a hint of "are you joking"' facial expression, but I've never been in this sort of situation before and am wondering what best practice is for the initial react and subsequent negotiation steps.
Don't do this. Salary negotiation is a game, the more data you provide the weaker your position is in the game. Take notes, ask about the benefits package, understand the complete package of what is being offered and then counter every single area of the benefits package you can to work out an equitable working arrangement.
Do not indicate that you are emotionally tied to an acceptance of an offer or not, your goal is to negotiate as high a starting benefits package as possible and their goal is to negotiate as low a starting benefits package as possible. Find out what part of the job or benefits package is attractive to you, if it's just salary work with that, if it's paid time off, angle for that.
The important thing to remember is that when someone makes an offer they want you to fill the position, that's a leg up for you. That doesn't mean you get to dictate terms of hiring but it does give you a position to negotiate from. It's dramatically easier to negotiate a 5-10% increase in salary/benefits when you're being hired than to negotiate the same a year or two down the road where you can't predict the health of the business or the business's ability/willingness to provide increased salary and benefits.
posted by iamabot at 11:37 AM on April 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
Don't do this. Salary negotiation is a game, the more data you provide the weaker your position is in the game. Take notes, ask about the benefits package, understand the complete package of what is being offered and then counter every single area of the benefits package you can to work out an equitable working arrangement.
Do not indicate that you are emotionally tied to an acceptance of an offer or not, your goal is to negotiate as high a starting benefits package as possible and their goal is to negotiate as low a starting benefits package as possible. Find out what part of the job or benefits package is attractive to you, if it's just salary work with that, if it's paid time off, angle for that.
The important thing to remember is that when someone makes an offer they want you to fill the position, that's a leg up for you. That doesn't mean you get to dictate terms of hiring but it does give you a position to negotiate from. It's dramatically easier to negotiate a 5-10% increase in salary/benefits when you're being hired than to negotiate the same a year or two down the road where you can't predict the health of the business or the business's ability/willingness to provide increased salary and benefits.
posted by iamabot at 11:37 AM on April 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
About to join the real-world workforce. Had an interview the other night; expect to have an offer shortly. Expect (with reason) to get pitched a really low ball salary offer. I'm sort of planning on going with an 'incredulous, with a hint of "are you joking"' facial expression, but I've never been in this sort of situation before and am wondering what best practice is for the initial react and subsequent negotiation steps.
Act like a grown up. Either say no or say "I'll think about it."
posted by rr at 11:38 AM on April 29, 2012 [4 favorites]
Act like a grown up. Either say no or say "I'll think about it."
posted by rr at 11:38 AM on April 29, 2012 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Any offer/request from employer or employee has to be based on facts. If they give you a lowball offer you should counter this with a convincing salary request based on your cv, industry salaries or trends, what actual colleagues earn, etc.
As for a negotiation strategy, you might want to ask a fair amount above the industry standard. This will anchor the negotiation towards the salary you actually want and it might also signal that you are very competent/confident in yourself, which the employer might value more than saving a couple of dollars. Of course the employer can just tell you to forget about your unreasonable request but it's never a bad thing to ask for a higher salary as there is always a negotiation phase.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:40 AM on April 29, 2012
As for a negotiation strategy, you might want to ask a fair amount above the industry standard. This will anchor the negotiation towards the salary you actually want and it might also signal that you are very competent/confident in yourself, which the employer might value more than saving a couple of dollars. Of course the employer can just tell you to forget about your unreasonable request but it's never a bad thing to ask for a higher salary as there is always a negotiation phase.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:40 AM on April 29, 2012
Best answer: Your response to work situations should never be carefully choreographing what face you'll make. Research how much a person with your experience makes on average in your state/area and determine what level of compensation you'll accept to start. Aim higher than that initially but don't expect miracles.
And you say "I can't be a total asshole" in this particular situation but the real thing to learn is NEVER BE AN ASSHOLE. Especially right before you start a job...? Worst idea. Cool, calm and professional will take you far in life.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:43 AM on April 29, 2012 [8 favorites]
And you say "I can't be a total asshole" in this particular situation but the real thing to learn is NEVER BE AN ASSHOLE. Especially right before you start a job...? Worst idea. Cool, calm and professional will take you far in life.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:43 AM on April 29, 2012 [8 favorites]
Small business, they need somebody to fill in behind a retiree, and it's a fairly niche market, so I expect they'll be sort of hard up. That being said, hiring a new person on will not necessarily be essential to their business so I can't be a total asshole
Another reason you can't be a total asshole is because, if it works out, you're going to be working with these people. Every day. For a long time. You seem to think the job is going to suck. You may want to question the wisdom of taking a job you have so little interest in. But if you are committed to taking this, I'd suggest that the one factor that will affect, a lot, whether the job sucks more or suck less, is whether you have a good, mutually respectful, relationship with your employers.
In a number of ways, you seem to be going into this with a pretty adversarial set of assumptions: You expect that they are going to try to lowball you on salary, you plan to respond with incredulous body language, etc. It's true you and your employer may have somewhat divergent intersts here (on balance, you'd rather get more, they'd rather pay you less) but there are ways to address those divergent interests without planning what snide face to make.
You don't have to go into a salary negotiation thinking that it's going to be a tricky tug-of-war, where they make an unreasonably low offer, and you counter with an unreasonably high one. They may surprise you by making a fair offer. You say you have a sense of what 'market value' for this job would be. Would you be comfortable with that amount? Do you have good numbers to back up that figure? If so - if they offer that much, or more, you can take that. If they offer less, rather than playing games, you can say "I've looked into X, Y, and Z, and my sense, based on that, is that a fair salary for this job is $XXX. Is there a reason you are offering less?"
(IAANI = I am a negotiation instructor)
posted by ManInSuit at 11:48 AM on April 29, 2012 [15 favorites]
Another reason you can't be a total asshole is because, if it works out, you're going to be working with these people. Every day. For a long time. You seem to think the job is going to suck. You may want to question the wisdom of taking a job you have so little interest in. But if you are committed to taking this, I'd suggest that the one factor that will affect, a lot, whether the job sucks more or suck less, is whether you have a good, mutually respectful, relationship with your employers.
In a number of ways, you seem to be going into this with a pretty adversarial set of assumptions: You expect that they are going to try to lowball you on salary, you plan to respond with incredulous body language, etc. It's true you and your employer may have somewhat divergent intersts here (on balance, you'd rather get more, they'd rather pay you less) but there are ways to address those divergent interests without planning what snide face to make.
You don't have to go into a salary negotiation thinking that it's going to be a tricky tug-of-war, where they make an unreasonably low offer, and you counter with an unreasonably high one. They may surprise you by making a fair offer. You say you have a sense of what 'market value' for this job would be. Would you be comfortable with that amount? Do you have good numbers to back up that figure? If so - if they offer that much, or more, you can take that. If they offer less, rather than playing games, you can say "I've looked into X, Y, and Z, and my sense, based on that, is that a fair salary for this job is $XXX. Is there a reason you are offering less?"
(IAANI = I am a negotiation instructor)
posted by ManInSuit at 11:48 AM on April 29, 2012 [15 favorites]
Best answer: I'm sort of planning on going with an 'incredulous, with a hint of "are you joking"' facial expression.
Oh hell no. Here's your script.
"This is our offer."
"Thank you. I'm excited about this opportunity. Look, I hate negotiation as much as anyone, and I think it's important to do this quickly so we can get this behind us and focus on the work, and I'm really looking forward to that for ABC reason. Based on research XYZ and my own personal needs, I think a competitive salary for this position is (insert figure here)."
"Reaction (high, low or indifferent)."
"Thanks. Let me consider this, look at the numbers, and I'll get back to you tomorrow morning, no later than 10 a.m."
And then you just keep running variations of this same script until you're happy or you're convinced that this dog won't hunt. It really is this easy.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:50 AM on April 29, 2012 [16 favorites]
Oh hell no. Here's your script.
"This is our offer."
"Thank you. I'm excited about this opportunity. Look, I hate negotiation as much as anyone, and I think it's important to do this quickly so we can get this behind us and focus on the work, and I'm really looking forward to that for ABC reason. Based on research XYZ and my own personal needs, I think a competitive salary for this position is (insert figure here)."
"Reaction (high, low or indifferent)."
"Thanks. Let me consider this, look at the numbers, and I'll get back to you tomorrow morning, no later than 10 a.m."
And then you just keep running variations of this same script until you're happy or you're convinced that this dog won't hunt. It really is this easy.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:50 AM on April 29, 2012 [16 favorites]
Response by poster: Well, it seems I can stop practicing on the mirror. Thanks- this has been very helpful.
posted by jimmysmits at 12:10 PM on April 29, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by jimmysmits at 12:10 PM on April 29, 2012 [4 favorites]
How about framing the whole discussion differently. This shouldn't be about one side or both sides giving up things to "meet in the middle". The middle is unattractive for everyone.
Without giving up your position accept their position as totally legitimate and then become their advocate. Work with them to find a solution where their position can prevail. This involves suggesting possible ways of providing you (monetary or non-monetary) benefits that that can bridge the gap. Maybe some type of benefits can be found that come out of a different account. It can also involve boni...or compensation in terms of free time.
Usually when you are working with them in this manner they eventually also start adjusting their starting offer a bit as well without feeling that they have given up anything.
posted by patrick54 at 12:22 PM on April 29, 2012
Without giving up your position accept their position as totally legitimate and then become their advocate. Work with them to find a solution where their position can prevail. This involves suggesting possible ways of providing you (monetary or non-monetary) benefits that that can bridge the gap. Maybe some type of benefits can be found that come out of a different account. It can also involve boni...or compensation in terms of free time.
Usually when you are working with them in this manner they eventually also start adjusting their starting offer a bit as well without feeling that they have given up anything.
posted by patrick54 at 12:22 PM on April 29, 2012
My friend was just offered a job which amounted to a $35k salary cut (yes for real). Despite being desperate for a job, he decided it wasn't worth negotiating, and made a "thanks for the offer, but no" phone call. He's one of the most diplomatic and gracious people I know.
I'm sure the company knows whether they're lowballing you. You don't have to make an incredulous face to get the message across. Either it's worth a negotiation or it's not.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 1:38 PM on April 29, 2012
I'm sure the company knows whether they're lowballing you. You don't have to make an incredulous face to get the message across. Either it's worth a negotiation or it's not.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 1:38 PM on April 29, 2012
"It's not enough." and leave it at that, or at least wait for their reply.
posted by rhizome at 2:04 PM on April 29, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 2:04 PM on April 29, 2012 [1 favorite]
Your response needs to be the most sincere and comfortable for you. In my experience, it's always better to negotiate from a position of honesty and integrity. It's less stressful and whether or not you come to terms, in the end both parties are left with a more positive result. If this is a job you want, pick an amount that you're comfortable with and lay it out there. If you're way off and they can't meet it, they'll say so. No harm done, no bad feelings, and the door is still open if they can't fill the position.
I wouldn't start high, if it was me I would make my counteroffer a reasonable amount and then politely stick to it.
posted by raisingsand at 2:27 PM on April 29, 2012
I wouldn't start high, if it was me I would make my counteroffer a reasonable amount and then politely stick to it.
posted by raisingsand at 2:27 PM on April 29, 2012
I'm sure the company knows whether they're lowballing you.
I would never assume this. Don't mistake incompetence or simply lack of easy evaluation of the market for malicious intent. That's a lose lose for everyone involved.
posted by ch1x0r at 5:18 PM on April 29, 2012
I would never assume this. Don't mistake incompetence or simply lack of easy evaluation of the market for malicious intent. That's a lose lose for everyone involved.
posted by ch1x0r at 5:18 PM on April 29, 2012
Another reason not to be snide - you never know who this person knows. Business connections are a very tangled and surprising web, formed over years and years. I'm still sometimes surprised when I find out that person X knows person Y and believe me, people do talk. Someday someone else's business connections may work out beautifully for you, so don't poison that well.
Remember also to take into consideration the entire compensation package. Benefits and vacation are worth something.
Good luck!
posted by azpenguin at 8:36 PM on April 29, 2012 [1 favorite]
Remember also to take into consideration the entire compensation package. Benefits and vacation are worth something.
Good luck!
posted by azpenguin at 8:36 PM on April 29, 2012 [1 favorite]
Some companies, including my previous employer, are using the crappiness of today's economy to lower their salary bands and to play extreme hardball when making job offers. If there's a chance that this employer plays those same games, you may want to be careful with your counter offer. My previous employer rescinded job opportunities on several occasions when people countered with figures deemed too high by the bosses.
I'd say something along the lines of, "My understanding is that $XX,000-$XZ,000, is a more normal range for this job, and based on my experience I was expecting an offer closer to $XY,000. Can you get any closer to that range with your offer?"
posted by croutonsupafreak at 12:31 PM on April 30, 2012
I'd say something along the lines of, "My understanding is that $XX,000-$XZ,000, is a more normal range for this job, and based on my experience I was expecting an offer closer to $XY,000. Can you get any closer to that range with your offer?"
posted by croutonsupafreak at 12:31 PM on April 30, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
Terrible idea.
An earnest, "I'd love to work here but these are my salary requirements" response will go much further than making cute incredulous faces.
posted by jayder at 11:31 AM on April 29, 2012 [26 favorites]