Is it worth it?
April 28, 2012 12:17 PM Subscribe
If something won't be remembered in 10 years, is it worth doing?
I am just asking this question because it has been wrecking havoc in my life lately. Every activity I do is plagued by it. I get into a helpless thought pattern of "This won't matter 10 years from now" in almost everything I try to do (reading a book, having a conversation with someone, watching a movie, listening to NPR).
I need help uprooting this seemingly invincible belief. I hope that it brings out passionate responses because I think that's exactly what I need to hear. I need to see how irrational this freaking belief is before it takes over my life completely.
For what it's worth, I have been diagnosed with major depression so it may be related with that. I am on antidepressants that have been doing wonders. I know I should talk to my therapist about this but I really value the wisdom of this community. In the past, almost all of my questions have received very enlightening responses that have changed my perspective on life. I hope this question is similar.
I am just asking this question because it has been wrecking havoc in my life lately. Every activity I do is plagued by it. I get into a helpless thought pattern of "This won't matter 10 years from now" in almost everything I try to do (reading a book, having a conversation with someone, watching a movie, listening to NPR).
I need help uprooting this seemingly invincible belief. I hope that it brings out passionate responses because I think that's exactly what I need to hear. I need to see how irrational this freaking belief is before it takes over my life completely.
For what it's worth, I have been diagnosed with major depression so it may be related with that. I am on antidepressants that have been doing wonders. I know I should talk to my therapist about this but I really value the wisdom of this community. In the past, almost all of my questions have received very enlightening responses that have changed my perspective on life. I hope this question is similar.
I think you need to ask what "won't matter 10 years from now" means. I think there are two issues there. First, won't matter to whom? Second, why would it matter whether what you do today matters 10 years from now? If what you do matters to you, and if it matters to you now, that's reason enough to do it. If you live life doing things that matter to you, when you look back on your life, you won't be as likely to regret them. You'll have lived a life full of meaning.
posted by smorange at 12:24 PM on April 28, 2012
posted by smorange at 12:24 PM on April 28, 2012
Why 10 years from now? What's magic about the number 10?
Why aren't you asking yourself with a two year time frame? Or 20?
Look -- it's just a shitty question. It's a logic trick. Just because you're able to put the words together and think the question doesn't mean it deserves an answer.
posted by vitabellosi at 12:26 PM on April 28, 2012 [13 favorites]
Why aren't you asking yourself with a two year time frame? Or 20?
Look -- it's just a shitty question. It's a logic trick. Just because you're able to put the words together and think the question doesn't mean it deserves an answer.
posted by vitabellosi at 12:26 PM on April 28, 2012 [13 favorites]
Lately, I've been doing things because they won't matter 10 years from now.
(Other than of course anything that might involve intentionally hurting someone else.)
posted by waterandrock at 12:29 PM on April 28, 2012 [5 favorites]
(Other than of course anything that might involve intentionally hurting someone else.)
posted by waterandrock at 12:29 PM on April 28, 2012 [5 favorites]
Having a conversation may not be remembered in 10 years, but it might lead to a friendship that will be. The plot of a book may not be remembered, but it might leave you with some wisdom that will last your life. Maybe you won't remember that coffee you had, but you could meet your future spouse while you're there!
You never know how the littlest thing could make the difference of a lifetime, so you have zero authority to predict what you will and won't remember, that is the beauty of life!
posted by katypickle at 12:29 PM on April 28, 2012 [29 favorites]
You never know how the littlest thing could make the difference of a lifetime, so you have zero authority to predict what you will and won't remember, that is the beauty of life!
posted by katypickle at 12:29 PM on April 28, 2012 [29 favorites]
The perfect is the enemy of the good, to slightly paraphrase Voltaire. Sitting around doing nothing because you can't do the perfect memorable thing is a mug's game. Your depression is being really fucking tricky here with this, but you don't have to listen to it.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:33 PM on April 28, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:33 PM on April 28, 2012 [14 favorites]
This is indeed irrational. There are two ways to see it. (One is a direct counterexample to your necessary condition on worthwhile action, and another is an attempt to attack what I take to be the feeling that underlies your view.)
First, suppose you knew that your parents were going to die within ten years. Would it cease to be worthwhile to do good things for them? It seems to me that it wouldn't. In fact, it might be even more worthwhile. So, some actions are worthwhile even if they're sure to be forgotten, and perhaps forgotten even more rapidly than ten years down the road.
Second, suppose you knew that your actions would in fact be remembered in ten years, but that you'd be dead well before that point. Given that you'd be dead, what would it matter that someone remembered your actions? It couldn't do you any good: you'd still be dead. So, even if your actions were remembered, that's no sign of their being worthwhile (in the sense of being worthwhile to you).
If our actions have value at all, they have it independently of how long (or short) they are remembered. An action immediately forgotten may be absolutely important and worthwhile, and an action taken without even knowing or caring about it might end up remembered for years to come.
posted by voltairemodern at 12:33 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
First, suppose you knew that your parents were going to die within ten years. Would it cease to be worthwhile to do good things for them? It seems to me that it wouldn't. In fact, it might be even more worthwhile. So, some actions are worthwhile even if they're sure to be forgotten, and perhaps forgotten even more rapidly than ten years down the road.
Second, suppose you knew that your actions would in fact be remembered in ten years, but that you'd be dead well before that point. Given that you'd be dead, what would it matter that someone remembered your actions? It couldn't do you any good: you'd still be dead. So, even if your actions were remembered, that's no sign of their being worthwhile (in the sense of being worthwhile to you).
If our actions have value at all, they have it independently of how long (or short) they are remembered. An action immediately forgotten may be absolutely important and worthwhile, and an action taken without even knowing or caring about it might end up remembered for years to come.
posted by voltairemodern at 12:33 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
Thing like this matter, not so much in themselves, but because they're cumulative. Say every book you read makes you just a little bit smarter, or better informed, or more understanding. So if you skip any one book, you're right, there probably won't be much difference. But ten years of being a person who reads books vs a person who hasn't read any books? Big difference. Same with movies, conversations, radio, etc. In doing those things you're becoming someone who's cultured, social, aware of different topics, etc. In ten years those things will make a huge difference in terms of what kind of person you are. It's quite possible they will determine what kind of people are around you, where you live, what you do, etc. Any little thing you do could potentially change your life in a larger way, too, or even lead you to do something that would have a more lasting effect on other people, or society, who knows.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 12:34 PM on April 28, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by DestinationUnknown at 12:34 PM on April 28, 2012 [13 favorites]
? Why is 10 years more important than right now? I feel like there is some information missing here about why 10 years from now is important or significant to you?
posted by cairdeas at 12:34 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cairdeas at 12:34 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
Another important piece of wisdom here, I think, is the Zen proverb "Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water."
Life is a stream of actions, not a game in which one accumulates a score.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:36 PM on April 28, 2012 [31 favorites]
Life is a stream of actions, not a game in which one accumulates a score.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:36 PM on April 28, 2012 [31 favorites]
Also, if nothing will matter 10 years from now, doesn't it makes sense that you might as well enjoy yourself right now? If sitting there being sad and bored, vs. doing something enjoyable or fun, will come out to the same result anyway.
posted by cairdeas at 12:38 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cairdeas at 12:38 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you stole ten bucks from a random acquaintance, or walked out of a restaurant without paying, they probably wouldnt remember it ten years from now. Does that mean it doesn't matter if you do it? It wouldnt change your opinion of yourself, or your friends opinion of you? Some things are important because of their immediate impact and because of what they say about you as a person. If only a ten year impact matters, then why not litter, vandalise, shoplift, insult people in the street, etc? Because youd be making the world a worse place now, and the cumulative impact of all these small actions would make the world worse in ten years.
Likewise, all the books you read and conversations you have wont individually be important, but in ten years you will either be someone friendly who reads for pleasure or youll be a misanthropic, unread asshole. A journey of a thousand miles is made up of single steps, to misquote someone. No one step needs to be memorable, but when you look back at them as a whole they are pretty damn impressive.
posted by jacalata at 12:38 PM on April 28, 2012 [3 favorites]
Likewise, all the books you read and conversations you have wont individually be important, but in ten years you will either be someone friendly who reads for pleasure or youll be a misanthropic, unread asshole. A journey of a thousand miles is made up of single steps, to misquote someone. No one step needs to be memorable, but when you look back at them as a whole they are pretty damn impressive.
posted by jacalata at 12:38 PM on April 28, 2012 [3 favorites]
You are what you habitually do. Friendly, well-informed, well-read, well-cultured are all good things to be.
(Btw, I think EVERYTHING on your list is going to matter in 10 years. I thought your list of things that wouldn't matter in 10 years would be, like, filing the TPS reports. Not conversing with friends or reading a book! Chatting with friends and reading are TOTALLY the things that will matter in 10 years and in 20 years and in 50 years!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:44 PM on April 28, 2012 [4 favorites]
(Btw, I think EVERYTHING on your list is going to matter in 10 years. I thought your list of things that wouldn't matter in 10 years would be, like, filing the TPS reports. Not conversing with friends or reading a book! Chatting with friends and reading are TOTALLY the things that will matter in 10 years and in 20 years and in 50 years!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:44 PM on April 28, 2012 [4 favorites]
Taken to the other extreme, there are probably those who live in fear of doing anything because of the immense repercussions it might have in the future. Have you ever read the Ray Bradbury short story "A Sound of Thunder"? It popularized the concept now termed the "butterfly effect", which you have probably heard of - the idea that even the smallest actions, such as the flapping of a butterfly's wings, can change the world of the future.
I think it's a very powerful idea and one that might change your mind about "nothing I do is going to matter." From my perspective, it seems clear that everything you do IS going to matter, even if you don't see the difference yourself. The most important thing is that you make sure what you are doing is going to have a net positive effect, rather than a net negative one (the "net" part is important - it is impossible to guarantee that all your actions will only have positive effects).
posted by treehorn+bunny at 12:49 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think it's a very powerful idea and one that might change your mind about "nothing I do is going to matter." From my perspective, it seems clear that everything you do IS going to matter, even if you don't see the difference yourself. The most important thing is that you make sure what you are doing is going to have a net positive effect, rather than a net negative one (the "net" part is important - it is impossible to guarantee that all your actions will only have positive effects).
posted by treehorn+bunny at 12:49 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
10 years ago, I was doing things that - at the time - seemed completely irrelevant and trivial, that turned out to be incredibly important to getting to where I am now.
Sometimes you know that something is going to divide your life into "before" and "after" (moving to a new city, for instance), and sometimes it's only in retrospect that you find out that - for instance - because you went to that movie, you ended up meeting the person who introduced you to someone who becomes one of your best friends.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:50 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sometimes you know that something is going to divide your life into "before" and "after" (moving to a new city, for instance), and sometimes it's only in retrospect that you find out that - for instance - because you went to that movie, you ended up meeting the person who introduced you to someone who becomes one of your best friends.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:50 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think so. Our experiences are like the grains that make up sedimentary rock - they add up to something. I don't remember every time I've practiced guitar, but the cumulative effect is that I can play a bit.
I keep a journal. Sometimes I go back through and find I've completely forgotten things that happened a few years ago. But when I read about it, I remember it, and often I'm happy those things happened or I can see how they've shaped who I am now.
And even if none of this was true - life is NOW. How you feel in this moment, how you are impacting others, definitely matters to you right now ... how is that different from it mattering in 10 years?
posted by bunderful at 12:51 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
I keep a journal. Sometimes I go back through and find I've completely forgotten things that happened a few years ago. But when I read about it, I remember it, and often I'm happy those things happened or I can see how they've shaped who I am now.
And even if none of this was true - life is NOW. How you feel in this moment, how you are impacting others, definitely matters to you right now ... how is that different from it mattering in 10 years?
posted by bunderful at 12:51 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
I bet you don't remember the exact moment when you learned to tie your shoes, ride a bike, write your name, or correctly did a long division problem.
You've carried those unremembered moments with you into the life you are living now, and will continue to do so. Your life is a long string of remembered and unremembered things.
posted by rtha at 1:00 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
You've carried those unremembered moments with you into the life you are living now, and will continue to do so. Your life is a long string of remembered and unremembered things.
posted by rtha at 1:00 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
I can't remember the first 3 years of my life. Does it matter what happened during those 3 years? Hell yes.
What we do, what happens to us, shapes us and shapes the world around us, whether we remember it or not. Reading a book I like now gives me pleasure, teaches me something, changes my perspective, or reinforces my perspective. I may not remember the book later, or know that I learned something from it, but it matters. I may learn nothing from it, but it still matters because I enjoyed it, or was bored by it, or didn't like it. I'll make subconscious choices in the future because of my experience today.
posted by SLC Mom at 1:02 PM on April 28, 2012
What we do, what happens to us, shapes us and shapes the world around us, whether we remember it or not. Reading a book I like now gives me pleasure, teaches me something, changes my perspective, or reinforces my perspective. I may not remember the book later, or know that I learned something from it, but it matters. I may learn nothing from it, but it still matters because I enjoyed it, or was bored by it, or didn't like it. I'll make subconscious choices in the future because of my experience today.
posted by SLC Mom at 1:02 PM on April 28, 2012
Don't do anything you don't want to do.
You don't really have to do anything you don't want to do. If you need to do it, you should want to do it.
You will be remembered for who you are, not what you do, and that lives on forever.
posted by provoliminal at 1:06 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
You don't really have to do anything you don't want to do. If you need to do it, you should want to do it.
You will be remembered for who you are, not what you do, and that lives on forever.
posted by provoliminal at 1:06 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
What might matter in ten years time is if you haven't read any books, watched any movies, had any conversations or done anything frivolous in the last ten years. You might not remember specifics but you will remember being happy and entertained, or not.
posted by Laura_J at 1:10 PM on April 28, 2012
posted by Laura_J at 1:10 PM on April 28, 2012
"Now" is the only thing that is presently profitable. Live for the moment, life in the future might never come to pass.
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:11 PM on April 28, 2012
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:11 PM on April 28, 2012
I'm going to just paste an answer I gave in another AskMe thread. It addresses these sorts of concerns, even if it doesn't directly deal with the remembrance aspect...
Thomas Nagel argues that, even though nothing we do will matter in a million years, that doesn't give us a reason to think nothing matters now. The reasoning goes like this. If we accept that nothing we do will matter in a million years, then, by the same token, nothing that happens in a million years should matter to us now. That's intuitively plausible--how often do we worry about things that will happen in a million years? But if we accept that what happens in a million years doesn't matter, then the fact that in a million years the present won't matter, is actually one of those million-years-away facts that shouldn't matter to us now. Thus, the fact that nothing now will matter in a million years can't be a reason to think that nothing matters now.
posted by Beardman at 1:17 PM on April 28, 2012
Thomas Nagel argues that, even though nothing we do will matter in a million years, that doesn't give us a reason to think nothing matters now. The reasoning goes like this. If we accept that nothing we do will matter in a million years, then, by the same token, nothing that happens in a million years should matter to us now. That's intuitively plausible--how often do we worry about things that will happen in a million years? But if we accept that what happens in a million years doesn't matter, then the fact that in a million years the present won't matter, is actually one of those million-years-away facts that shouldn't matter to us now. Thus, the fact that nothing now will matter in a million years can't be a reason to think that nothing matters now.
posted by Beardman at 1:17 PM on April 28, 2012
That is so much the depression talking. Maybe for you it's chemical, maybe it's some beliefs you picked up from your environment or childhood, or maybe it's a bit of both, but I'd say that feeling that it's not worth doing things is in and of itself depression.
It is absolutely legitimate and important to do things to create happiness in your life, and a lot of those things are minute-by-minute actions rather than big sweeping life decisions. Do you or might you enjoy watching a movie, listening to NPR, talking to someone, etc? Probably! You are valuable and your happiness/mood/enjoyment of life is valuable and you are entirely worth doing things to make yourself happy. And from a practical standpoint, creating happiness in your life, if you can do it, even little tiny bits, will make everything else easier, because it's hard to do anything when you're feeling sad.
posted by needs more cowbell at 1:20 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
It is absolutely legitimate and important to do things to create happiness in your life, and a lot of those things are minute-by-minute actions rather than big sweeping life decisions. Do you or might you enjoy watching a movie, listening to NPR, talking to someone, etc? Probably! You are valuable and your happiness/mood/enjoyment of life is valuable and you are entirely worth doing things to make yourself happy. And from a practical standpoint, creating happiness in your life, if you can do it, even little tiny bits, will make everything else easier, because it's hard to do anything when you're feeling sad.
posted by needs more cowbell at 1:20 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's perhaps not a belief at all, but rather a protection mechanism, preventing you from being fully in the present moment by way of abstraction and self-evaluation.
You're leaning towards something else; some idea of evaluating the current state of things...but later. You're stepping out of now and looking at and judging its worth. Why? Your life will eventually be a collection of the feelings you had in specific moments...but you're not allowing yourself to have these ones.
The abstraction and future planning is a form of editing, minimizing what you're feeling now by limiting your presence in it. You can keep putting it off, or perhaps metering it in small doses, but I say just feel it, raw and all. Life might be sucky and pointless now, but at least it's real. The future and the past will never be.
posted by iamkimiam at 1:23 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
You're leaning towards something else; some idea of evaluating the current state of things...but later. You're stepping out of now and looking at and judging its worth. Why? Your life will eventually be a collection of the feelings you had in specific moments...but you're not allowing yourself to have these ones.
The abstraction and future planning is a form of editing, minimizing what you're feeling now by limiting your presence in it. You can keep putting it off, or perhaps metering it in small doses, but I say just feel it, raw and all. Life might be sucky and pointless now, but at least it's real. The future and the past will never be.
posted by iamkimiam at 1:23 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Everything everyone has said above is true, but here's another truth. The older I get, the more I am amazed by how unaccountable and random my memories are. I can remember the most inane encounter with a stranger that occurred 25 years ago, but totally forget something far more important that happened last year or if I'm honest, last week. As others have pointed out, you don't know whether the book that you're reading today will lead to a conversation next week, that will lead to a life long friendship. What I'm saying is, you don't know that you won't remember the book that you are reading this week and what other memories from this period in your life it will trigger.
On the positive side, "this won't matter 10 years from now" has helped me to put some embarrassing or otherwise uncomfortable moments or events in perspective. But generally trying to live in the NOW is good advice. However difficult it may be to practice (at least I find it difficult).
posted by kaybdc at 1:27 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
On the positive side, "this won't matter 10 years from now" has helped me to put some embarrassing or otherwise uncomfortable moments or events in perspective. But generally trying to live in the NOW is good advice. However difficult it may be to practice (at least I find it difficult).
posted by kaybdc at 1:27 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
How much do you remember about learning to read?
posted by amtho at 1:37 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by amtho at 1:37 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
In the long run we're all dead.
But RIGHT NOW, sandwiches are still tasty. Sunlight still feels good on bare skin. Books are still interesting, cats are still fluffy, and your favorite pair of socks still fits just right.
Take care of today. Ten years from now will handle itself. I suggest a sandwich, in the sunshine, while reading a book and wearing your favorite socks, with a cat in your lap. Works for me.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:47 PM on April 28, 2012 [19 favorites]
But RIGHT NOW, sandwiches are still tasty. Sunlight still feels good on bare skin. Books are still interesting, cats are still fluffy, and your favorite pair of socks still fits just right.
Take care of today. Ten years from now will handle itself. I suggest a sandwich, in the sunshine, while reading a book and wearing your favorite socks, with a cat in your lap. Works for me.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:47 PM on April 28, 2012 [19 favorites]
all things matter if you want them to. Nothing matters if you don't want it to. If therapy helps you soon or now, will that matter ten years later?
posted by Postroad at 1:52 PM on April 28, 2012
posted by Postroad at 1:52 PM on April 28, 2012
Some of the major symptoms of depression/anxiety (which often go hand in hand) are living in the past/future. Mindfulness practice, such as that described in Jon Kabat-Zinn's work, can help you let go of that and focus on the present moment, which is all we really have. You have no way of knowing what the world holds ten years from now; nothing you do today may matter in the slightest, or everything might. There's no way to know. It's ok that you can't know, and in some ways a relief from the responsibility your anxious brain is trying to pin on you to live your life in some magical future-proof way. Mindfulness practice helps you let go of that and talk your anxious brain out of that loop.
posted by judith at 1:56 PM on April 28, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by judith at 1:56 PM on April 28, 2012 [3 favorites]
For what it's worth, I have been diagnosed with major depression so it may be related with that.
There's no 'may' to that sentence. This is your depression talking. There are books that I remember reading when I was 2, 7, 10 years old; I am now 29. There are movies I remember watching, conversations I had with people, articles I read, radio shows I heard. I may not have them perfectly memorized, but something about them affected me and informed who I am today. They matter to me. Things I do today and this week will no doubt be part of who I am in 2, 5, 10 years.
Equally, or perhaps more, important is living for now. You don't know what the future will bring, or what, specifically, will be important to you from the present in 10 years. So you need to find things that are important and fulfilling to you now. They don't have to be big things.
This is really something you need to bring up in therapy, and your therapist should be eager to help you work with you on this.
posted by asciident at 2:05 PM on April 28, 2012 [4 favorites]
There's no 'may' to that sentence. This is your depression talking. There are books that I remember reading when I was 2, 7, 10 years old; I am now 29. There are movies I remember watching, conversations I had with people, articles I read, radio shows I heard. I may not have them perfectly memorized, but something about them affected me and informed who I am today. They matter to me. Things I do today and this week will no doubt be part of who I am in 2, 5, 10 years.
Equally, or perhaps more, important is living for now. You don't know what the future will bring, or what, specifically, will be important to you from the present in 10 years. So you need to find things that are important and fulfilling to you now. They don't have to be big things.
This is really something you need to bring up in therapy, and your therapist should be eager to help you work with you on this.
posted by asciident at 2:05 PM on April 28, 2012 [4 favorites]
Nothing matters in the long run. But we're not in the long run yet, we're here now. You can enjoy what you can now or be miserable and the long run will still get here. I have trouble with this myself practically every day, as I love sipping that delicious melancholia. But honestly, unless I kill myself, I'm going to be alive for a while yet. I might as well try to enjoy myself.
Oh, and "enjoy" is code for "worth doing." I've never looked back on something I enjoyed doing and thought "that was a complete waste of my time." Even in my darkest moments when those memories of joy seem to taunt me with their far-offness, I get a little bit of solace knowing that if I was capable of feeling such joy once, I will feel it again someday.
posted by shipsthatburn at 2:16 PM on April 28, 2012
Oh, and "enjoy" is code for "worth doing." I've never looked back on something I enjoyed doing and thought "that was a complete waste of my time." Even in my darkest moments when those memories of joy seem to taunt me with their far-offness, I get a little bit of solace knowing that if I was capable of feeling such joy once, I will feel it again someday.
posted by shipsthatburn at 2:16 PM on April 28, 2012
Here's a poem for you:
The Snowflake Which Is Now and Hence Forever
Archibald MacLeish
Will it last? he says.
Is it a masterpiece?
Will generation after generation
Turn with reverence to the page?
Birdseye scholar of the frozen fish,
What would he make of the sole, clean, clear
Leap of the salmon that has disappeared?
To be, yes!--whether they like it or not!
But not to last when leap and water are forgotten,
A plank of standard pinkness in the dish.
They also live
Who swerve and vanish in the river.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:36 PM on April 28, 2012 [7 favorites]
The Snowflake Which Is Now and Hence Forever
Archibald MacLeish
Will it last? he says.
Is it a masterpiece?
Will generation after generation
Turn with reverence to the page?
Birdseye scholar of the frozen fish,
What would he make of the sole, clean, clear
Leap of the salmon that has disappeared?
To be, yes!--whether they like it or not!
But not to last when leap and water are forgotten,
A plank of standard pinkness in the dish.
They also live
Who swerve and vanish in the river.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:36 PM on April 28, 2012 [7 favorites]
1. For what it's worth, I have been diagnosed with major depression so it may be related with that. I am on antidepressants that have been doing wonders.
I am so, so glad that you are getting treatment for this. Mental health medication really helped me a lot, and when I am having feelings like the ones you describe, I often know it means I need to tweak my regimen, which may or may not be the case for you. I would definitely suggesting talking to your therapist and your medical doctor about whether it's time to tweak your regimen as well.
2. If I could favorite Destination Unknown's comment a million times I would:
Things like this matter, not so much in themselves, but because they're cumulative. Say every book you read makes you just a little bit smarter, or better informed, or more understanding. So if you skip any one book, you're right, there probably won't be much difference. But ten years of being a person who reads books vs a person who hasn't read any books? Big difference. Same with movies, conversations, radio, etc. In doing those things you're becoming someone who's cultured, social, aware of different topics, etc.
This is so, so, so true. Something I read years ago that really resonated me was from a professor who said how frustrated he felt when his students said things like, "This class is pointless," or, "I don't need this for my major, it's worthless." The professor said, "In most cases, it will be many years before my students know if there was value for them in my class." Our brains need time to work on things and chew them over and sit with them for a while before we understand what any given thing is worth to us, or if it mattered. Plus, that process is cumulative, like DU says.
The other part of it is less popular, and we don't hear about it enough in typical Western pop culture stuff. This is how I live and organize my life: Happiness is living in accord with your values. Understanding this and working on this has made the biggest difference in my happiness and ability to be happy through day-to-day ennui and setbacks and irritations. What do you value? Maybe you value being well-read. Maybe you value nurturing your social relationships. Maybe you DON'T value those things and would rather be doing something else. Maybe you value being creative, so you would rather be making art. Maybe you value helping animals and would rather be walking the puppies at a local shelter than talking with your friend about what you did over the weekend. I really believe that figuring this out so you know if your actions are in line with who you want to be can sort of rocket you towards a happy life that you will be proud to look back on 10 years from now.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 2:46 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am so, so glad that you are getting treatment for this. Mental health medication really helped me a lot, and when I am having feelings like the ones you describe, I often know it means I need to tweak my regimen, which may or may not be the case for you. I would definitely suggesting talking to your therapist and your medical doctor about whether it's time to tweak your regimen as well.
2. If I could favorite Destination Unknown's comment a million times I would:
Things like this matter, not so much in themselves, but because they're cumulative. Say every book you read makes you just a little bit smarter, or better informed, or more understanding. So if you skip any one book, you're right, there probably won't be much difference. But ten years of being a person who reads books vs a person who hasn't read any books? Big difference. Same with movies, conversations, radio, etc. In doing those things you're becoming someone who's cultured, social, aware of different topics, etc.
This is so, so, so true. Something I read years ago that really resonated me was from a professor who said how frustrated he felt when his students said things like, "This class is pointless," or, "I don't need this for my major, it's worthless." The professor said, "In most cases, it will be many years before my students know if there was value for them in my class." Our brains need time to work on things and chew them over and sit with them for a while before we understand what any given thing is worth to us, or if it mattered. Plus, that process is cumulative, like DU says.
The other part of it is less popular, and we don't hear about it enough in typical Western pop culture stuff. This is how I live and organize my life: Happiness is living in accord with your values. Understanding this and working on this has made the biggest difference in my happiness and ability to be happy through day-to-day ennui and setbacks and irritations. What do you value? Maybe you value being well-read. Maybe you value nurturing your social relationships. Maybe you DON'T value those things and would rather be doing something else. Maybe you value being creative, so you would rather be making art. Maybe you value helping animals and would rather be walking the puppies at a local shelter than talking with your friend about what you did over the weekend. I really believe that figuring this out so you know if your actions are in line with who you want to be can sort of rocket you towards a happy life that you will be proud to look back on 10 years from now.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 2:46 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
This leads to absurdity - what should you do to evaluate your choices, wait 10 years and see if you feel, wow, I wish I had done that thing?
posted by thelonius at 2:51 PM on April 28, 2012
posted by thelonius at 2:51 PM on April 28, 2012
Few of the times that Steve Jobs took a shower, or went to the store, or talked to a friend, or whatever, specifically mattered ten years later, they were all just part of the routine of maintaining Steve Jobs, in order to enable Steve Jobs to change the world.
Could he have changed the world without ever taking a shower? Nope. :)
posted by -harlequin- at 2:59 PM on April 28, 2012
Could he have changed the world without ever taking a shower? Nope. :)
posted by -harlequin- at 2:59 PM on April 28, 2012
The tricky part is, so many of the little things we do mean that the BIG AWESOME THINGS we do can happen. Those big awesome things will be remembered, but all the hours spent building the foundations for those things will not.
posted by Nickel Pickle at 3:08 PM on April 28, 2012
posted by Nickel Pickle at 3:08 PM on April 28, 2012
So here's a thing: one day you're going to die.
Once you're dead, none of the things you did are going to matter to you. Because, you know. Dead.
But because you are alive now, and a product and a part of many, many, many other things - nothing exists separate from you, you're as much universe as the chair you're sitting in - I tend to think that everything matters, to a lesser or greater degree. Every action or inaction adds up.
Also, chrissake, talk to your therapist about this. In fact, talk about what depression is and how it entrenches itself, if you haven't yet, because shit like this - the inactivity, the defeatism - is not only a hallmark of depression but one of the things that keeps it going. Difficult to break, but necessary to do so.
posted by curious nu at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Once you're dead, none of the things you did are going to matter to you. Because, you know. Dead.
But because you are alive now, and a product and a part of many, many, many other things - nothing exists separate from you, you're as much universe as the chair you're sitting in - I tend to think that everything matters, to a lesser or greater degree. Every action or inaction adds up.
Also, chrissake, talk to your therapist about this. In fact, talk about what depression is and how it entrenches itself, if you haven't yet, because shit like this - the inactivity, the defeatism - is not only a hallmark of depression but one of the things that keeps it going. Difficult to break, but necessary to do so.
posted by curious nu at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Most of the things we do are meaningless. Enjoy the ride!
"How many people there are who could be described as mere channels for food, producers of excrement, fillers of latrines, for they have no other purpose in this world; they practice no virtue whatsoever; all that remains after them is a full latrine." Leonardo da Vinci
posted by yoyo_nyc at 3:36 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
"How many people there are who could be described as mere channels for food, producers of excrement, fillers of latrines, for they have no other purpose in this world; they practice no virtue whatsoever; all that remains after them is a full latrine." Leonardo da Vinci
posted by yoyo_nyc at 3:36 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
Last night I showed up at my occasional bowling league and found out that because it was the last night of the season, the scores didn't count for anything, and they even altered the rules so that 9 pins counted as a strike. Because nothing "mattered", I had a blast. I changed the way I threw the ball, experimented with some different approaches, drank more, talked more and cared less. I had a lot more fun.
There are two ways to look at the ultimate "meaninglessness" of life. The first is to become depressed and think because nothing matters in an ultimate sense, there's nothing worth doing. The sun's just gonna go supernova eventually anyway, so why bother?
The second approach is to realize that if nothing ultimately matters, then you can really relax and have fun in the here and now because none of your mistakes "count" in the grand scheme of things. You can live life on your terms. That afternoon that you pissed away watching movies and chatting with friends? Who cares! It's not like any of us is going to escape the eventual heat death of the universe (or whatever your preferred apocalyptic scenario is) anyway, so you might as well enjoy your time on this spinning orb while you wait it out.
(As a more philosophical aside, I think that what you are experiencing is an integral part of the journey of the typical smart, introverted, analytical MeFite. Many people begin life living mostly on instinct and sensory experience, and only much later in life do they begin to ask the big questions and ponder their place in the universe. But your (our?) journey is different - we started out from a young age asking the big questions, trying to fit together the puzzle pieces, and frankly part of our maturing process is learning when to let go of the obsessive introspection and enjoy a good steak, a good glass of wine, and a good roll in the hay for its own sake instead of trying to figure out where it all fits in the Grand Scheme of Things.)
posted by sherlockt at 3:56 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
There are two ways to look at the ultimate "meaninglessness" of life. The first is to become depressed and think because nothing matters in an ultimate sense, there's nothing worth doing. The sun's just gonna go supernova eventually anyway, so why bother?
The second approach is to realize that if nothing ultimately matters, then you can really relax and have fun in the here and now because none of your mistakes "count" in the grand scheme of things. You can live life on your terms. That afternoon that you pissed away watching movies and chatting with friends? Who cares! It's not like any of us is going to escape the eventual heat death of the universe (or whatever your preferred apocalyptic scenario is) anyway, so you might as well enjoy your time on this spinning orb while you wait it out.
(As a more philosophical aside, I think that what you are experiencing is an integral part of the journey of the typical smart, introverted, analytical MeFite. Many people begin life living mostly on instinct and sensory experience, and only much later in life do they begin to ask the big questions and ponder their place in the universe. But your (our?) journey is different - we started out from a young age asking the big questions, trying to fit together the puzzle pieces, and frankly part of our maturing process is learning when to let go of the obsessive introspection and enjoy a good steak, a good glass of wine, and a good roll in the hay for its own sake instead of trying to figure out where it all fits in the Grand Scheme of Things.)
posted by sherlockt at 3:56 PM on April 28, 2012 [2 favorites]
This may or may not apply to you, but fwiw when I was nineteeen and severely depressed I thought the exact same thing. I couldn't see myself turning twenty so nothing mattered. What was the point of trying to finish a book or watch a movie when I could possibly die that day? When I could go to sleep and never wake up. Why try to keep up relationships with people when it would all end some day? It was very bad and anti-anxiety medication and antidepressants saved me from those irrational thoughts of my life being worthless.
Like what was said above, maybe you need a higher does of meds or different ones. Maybe you just need a new philosophical outlook on life. But please don't stop living your life the way you want to just because the things you do and experience are transitory. (Memail me if you want.)
posted by book 'em dano at 4:17 PM on April 28, 2012
Like what was said above, maybe you need a higher does of meds or different ones. Maybe you just need a new philosophical outlook on life. But please don't stop living your life the way you want to just because the things you do and experience are transitory. (Memail me if you want.)
posted by book 'em dano at 4:17 PM on April 28, 2012
When I was six years old, I spent the night on a pallet in the screened-in porch of my grandparents' house. It looked out on a country road winding through pasture land in east Texas. In my direct line of sight was a huge oak tree with a very persistent whippoorwill in it. The moon was almost full, and it was amazingly bright, giving everything a lovely silvery sheen. The day had been terribly hot, the night breeze was blessedly cool, and I fell asleep looking at that tree and listening to the whippoorwill calling for a mate.
That memory means nothing to anyone except me, but I've remembered it for 46 years. I can close my eyes right now and see it all over again.
I promise you that -- right now -- you don't truly know what will be remembered (or forgotten) in 10 years.
posted by jessian at 4:19 PM on April 28, 2012 [11 favorites]
That memory means nothing to anyone except me, but I've remembered it for 46 years. I can close my eyes right now and see it all over again.
I promise you that -- right now -- you don't truly know what will be remembered (or forgotten) in 10 years.
posted by jessian at 4:19 PM on April 28, 2012 [11 favorites]
I think the advice to "ask yourself whether this will matter in 10 years" is meant for people who are too afraid to do things because of fear of failing, or are too full of anxiety because they think they've done something and screwed it up. They aren't taking chances and are torturing themselves because the ones they made, they think will harm someone else.
You are neither kind of person. The advice to "ask yourself whether this will matter in 10 years" is simply not meant for you. You are seeking ways to please yourself, exactly the way you're supposed to be doing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:32 PM on April 28, 2012
You are neither kind of person. The advice to "ask yourself whether this will matter in 10 years" is simply not meant for you. You are seeking ways to please yourself, exactly the way you're supposed to be doing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:32 PM on April 28, 2012
perhaps doing something such as "reading a book, having a conversation with someone, watching a movie, listening to NPR" won't matter in 10 years but what if not doing those things will matter in 10 years or 1 year or 9 minutes and 13 seconds?
There is a good chance you'll regret not doing the things that you question the long-term meaning to so do them now while you can.
posted by 2manyusernames at 7:05 PM on April 28, 2012
There is a good chance you'll regret not doing the things that you question the long-term meaning to so do them now while you can.
posted by 2manyusernames at 7:05 PM on April 28, 2012
Rashi:
“He mourned over the destruction of His handiwork [when Noah's generation sinned]. ‘The king was pained over his son.’ This I have written in response to the heretics: A non-Jew asked R. Yehoshua ben Karchah, ‘Do you not admit that God foresees the future?’ R. Yehoshua said to him, ‘Yes.’ The non-Jew said, ‘But it is written, And He was pained in His heart [which means God did not foresee the consequences of the creation of man]. R. Yehoshua said to him, ‘Has a male child been born to you in your lifetime?’ The non-Jew said ‘Yes.’ R. Yehoshua asked: ‘And what did you do?’ The non-Jew said, ‘I rejoiced, and I made everyone rejoice.’ R. Yehoshua said, ‘But did you not know that his destiny is to die?’ The non-Jew said, ‘At a time of joy, [we behave with] joy; at a time of mourning [we behave with] mourning.’ R. Yehoshua said to him, ‘Such was the conduct of God. Even though it was revealed before Him that their destiny was to sin, and to suffer destruction, He did not refrain from creating them because of the righteous who are destined to arise from among them.’”
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:18 PM on April 28, 2012
“He mourned over the destruction of His handiwork [when Noah's generation sinned]. ‘The king was pained over his son.’ This I have written in response to the heretics: A non-Jew asked R. Yehoshua ben Karchah, ‘Do you not admit that God foresees the future?’ R. Yehoshua said to him, ‘Yes.’ The non-Jew said, ‘But it is written, And He was pained in His heart [which means God did not foresee the consequences of the creation of man]. R. Yehoshua said to him, ‘Has a male child been born to you in your lifetime?’ The non-Jew said ‘Yes.’ R. Yehoshua asked: ‘And what did you do?’ The non-Jew said, ‘I rejoiced, and I made everyone rejoice.’ R. Yehoshua said, ‘But did you not know that his destiny is to die?’ The non-Jew said, ‘At a time of joy, [we behave with] joy; at a time of mourning [we behave with] mourning.’ R. Yehoshua said to him, ‘Such was the conduct of God. Even though it was revealed before Him that their destiny was to sin, and to suffer destruction, He did not refrain from creating them because of the righteous who are destined to arise from among them.’”
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:18 PM on April 28, 2012
You might want to read "The Power of Now" for some thoughts on this general issue.
(in short: only the present moment exists)
posted by bearette at 7:25 PM on April 28, 2012
(in short: only the present moment exists)
posted by bearette at 7:25 PM on April 28, 2012
Others have chewed over this for a while: some grist for your mill:
A quote from mefi somewhere about the passing of time
How do you cope with the gloomy future?
Oh, it was horrible! I kept growing older and older and feeling more assured and secure and competent, and got the respect of being an adult, and from making my own choices, and testing my limits. And had a ridiculous wealth of experiences!
---
'That humanity at large will ever be able to dispense with Artificial Paradises seems very unlikely. Most men and women lead lives at the worst so painful, at the best so monotonous, poor and limited that the urge to escape, the longing to transcend themselves if only for a few moments, is and has always been one of the principal appetites of the soul. Art and religion, carnivals and saturnalia, dancing and listening to oratory—all these have served, in H. G. Wells's phrase, as Doors in the Wall. And for private, far everyday use there have always been chemical intoxicants. All the vegetable sedatives and narcotics, all the euphorics that grow on trees, the hallucinogens that ripen in berries or can be squeezed from roots—all, without exception, have been known and systematically used by human beings from time immemorial...........
===
The Moving Finger writes;
and, having writ, Moves on:
nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.
--Omar Khayyam
---
Live now, pal.
You'll be dead a long time, and you won't know your impact, and that will be just fine.
posted by lalochezia at 7:54 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
A quote from mefi somewhere about the passing of time
How do you cope with the gloomy future?
Oh, it was horrible! I kept growing older and older and feeling more assured and secure and competent, and got the respect of being an adult, and from making my own choices, and testing my limits. And had a ridiculous wealth of experiences!
---
'That humanity at large will ever be able to dispense with Artificial Paradises seems very unlikely. Most men and women lead lives at the worst so painful, at the best so monotonous, poor and limited that the urge to escape, the longing to transcend themselves if only for a few moments, is and has always been one of the principal appetites of the soul. Art and religion, carnivals and saturnalia, dancing and listening to oratory—all these have served, in H. G. Wells's phrase, as Doors in the Wall. And for private, far everyday use there have always been chemical intoxicants. All the vegetable sedatives and narcotics, all the euphorics that grow on trees, the hallucinogens that ripen in berries or can be squeezed from roots—all, without exception, have been known and systematically used by human beings from time immemorial...........
===
The Moving Finger writes;
and, having writ, Moves on:
nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.
--Omar Khayyam
---
Live now, pal.
You'll be dead a long time, and you won't know your impact, and that will be just fine.
posted by lalochezia at 7:54 PM on April 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll tell you about three days in my life.
There was a day I finally accepted that aside from people close to me, nobody else in the world gives a damn what I do with my life. They don't notice me.
I didn't stop smiling for six months after that day. I stopped fearing disapproval when choosing what to do.
About ten years later there was another day I finally accepted that aside from taking basic precautions, there is no way to remain safe from harm. Anything worth doing carries risks.
I didn't smile as much after that day, but I largely stopped fearing failure or pain when choosing what to do.
About five years after that there was another day I finally accepted that aside from carefully weighing my options when making a choice, there is no way to avoid losing things. Every choice carries loss.
I didn't smile much that day, but I largely stopped fearing loss of an alternative when choosing what to do.
Each of these days is crystal clear in my memory, because each realization came as a liberating gift, freeing me from old beliefs that had become cages for my life. I suggest reflecting on whether the "nothing will be remembered in 10 years" observation is as much of a curse as you make it out to be, rather than a gift of freedom, as I see it.
posted by ead at 11:20 PM on April 28, 2012 [3 favorites]
There was a day I finally accepted that aside from people close to me, nobody else in the world gives a damn what I do with my life. They don't notice me.
I didn't stop smiling for six months after that day. I stopped fearing disapproval when choosing what to do.
About ten years later there was another day I finally accepted that aside from taking basic precautions, there is no way to remain safe from harm. Anything worth doing carries risks.
I didn't smile as much after that day, but I largely stopped fearing failure or pain when choosing what to do.
About five years after that there was another day I finally accepted that aside from carefully weighing my options when making a choice, there is no way to avoid losing things. Every choice carries loss.
I didn't smile much that day, but I largely stopped fearing loss of an alternative when choosing what to do.
Each of these days is crystal clear in my memory, because each realization came as a liberating gift, freeing me from old beliefs that had become cages for my life. I suggest reflecting on whether the "nothing will be remembered in 10 years" observation is as much of a curse as you make it out to be, rather than a gift of freedom, as I see it.
posted by ead at 11:20 PM on April 28, 2012 [3 favorites]
Every breath you take right now does not matter, but if you stop taking them it will mean everything to you 10 years from now.
posted by blue_beetle at 5:51 AM on April 29, 2012
posted by blue_beetle at 5:51 AM on April 29, 2012
When I was about 11, I watched The Phantom Menace. Then I watched the Star Wars Original Trilogy. Then I went on the internet and found a Star Wars fan forum and started posting up a storm with people like me. Today I'm still a fan (albeit a less rabid one), and I've made a ton of friends and learnt so many things and had so many experiences I wouldn't have had if I didn't watch that one movie, over ten years ago.
How do you know it won't matter in a decade's time? It just might.
posted by Xany at 6:22 AM on April 29, 2012
How do you know it won't matter in a decade's time? It just might.
posted by Xany at 6:22 AM on April 29, 2012
I think other people have given great answers, so I'm just going to provide a quote by Emerson that I've found to be very true:
"The years teach much which the days never know."
posted by ghost dance beat at 7:30 AM on April 29, 2012 [4 favorites]
"The years teach much which the days never know."
posted by ghost dance beat at 7:30 AM on April 29, 2012 [4 favorites]
Hey, why not just do things for their own sake?
posted by fivesavagepalms at 8:30 AM on April 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by fivesavagepalms at 8:30 AM on April 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
Of course!
First of all, human memory is a funnily inaccurate thing. Even if you think you remember the most important things that happened to you ten years ago, it is far more likely that you have false/constructed memories that have been edited by years of reflection and self-narration.
So your memory is not reliable. The obverse is also true: you've been influenced by experiences that you no longer remember. You don't know what has changed your course over the last ten years.
Which implies that you can't tell for certain what's going to be important ten years from now. Your memory is fallible, your predictive abilities limited.
Don't try to predict life. Don't expect that your ideas about what is important and what isn't will hold up to scrutiny even 24 hours later. Uncertainty is part of life.
posted by deathpanels at 11:21 AM on April 29, 2012 [1 favorite]
First of all, human memory is a funnily inaccurate thing. Even if you think you remember the most important things that happened to you ten years ago, it is far more likely that you have false/constructed memories that have been edited by years of reflection and self-narration.
So your memory is not reliable. The obverse is also true: you've been influenced by experiences that you no longer remember. You don't know what has changed your course over the last ten years.
Which implies that you can't tell for certain what's going to be important ten years from now. Your memory is fallible, your predictive abilities limited.
Don't try to predict life. Don't expect that your ideas about what is important and what isn't will hold up to scrutiny even 24 hours later. Uncertainty is part of life.
posted by deathpanels at 11:21 AM on April 29, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
You've only got one life, live it in the moment. Enjoy what you're doing right now, and let the future take care of itself.
posted by empath at 12:23 PM on April 28, 2012 [7 favorites]