When did the Attorney General become a military title?
March 3, 2012 3:51 PM Subscribe
When did people start calling the Attorney General "General So-and-so". It's seems like it's both wrong and a fairly recent "innovation".
Well, at least one NYT blog post was ranting against it in 2007, and the commentariat there noted that it was already a fairly well established usage by then.
posted by Dimpy at 4:00 PM on March 3, 2012
posted by Dimpy at 4:00 PM on March 3, 2012
It must be U.S.-specific: in Canada we have had all manner of attorneys and solicitors general, as well as a governor general; not once have I heard any of them addressed as "general."
posted by mcwetboy at 4:08 PM on March 3, 2012
posted by mcwetboy at 4:08 PM on March 3, 2012
Best answer: It seems that this practice was already current by the time of the Scopes trial in 1925, at least when referring to the Tennessee state Attorney General and perhaps other state AGs.
Doesn't make it less wrong or less wrong-headed, though.
posted by Dimpy at 4:08 PM on March 3, 2012 [3 favorites]
Doesn't make it less wrong or less wrong-headed, though.
posted by Dimpy at 4:08 PM on March 3, 2012 [3 favorites]
I've heard it used since at least 2003 or so. Only for the Attorney General him or herself, not the AAGs and others lower down the food chain.
posted by Cocodrillo at 4:14 PM on March 3, 2012
posted by Cocodrillo at 4:14 PM on March 3, 2012
Here's a thorough discussion of this controversy from the Protocol School of Washington. Apparently there are some contexts where the title "General" has traditionally been used, but the consensus is that "Attorney General" is more correct.
I remember being driven to distraction over this when various Congresspersons kept referring to Attorney General Janet Reno as "General." This was in hearings critical of her handling of the Waco and Elian Gonzalez cases, so I think it was tainted by contemptuous snark.
posted by Corvid at 4:30 PM on March 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
I remember being driven to distraction over this when various Congresspersons kept referring to Attorney General Janet Reno as "General." This was in hearings critical of her handling of the Waco and Elian Gonzalez cases, so I think it was tainted by contemptuous snark.
posted by Corvid at 4:30 PM on March 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
The first thing you need to realize is that the military title is also an adjective, historically (e.g. Captain-General), albeit one that has lost its prefix. Thus Attorney General, Surgeon General, Solicitor General, Ambassador General, and some of the even more obscure variants are all just as entitled to the honorific in principle.
(Similarly, some forget that there were Doctors of Law and Philosophy centuries before there were Doctors of Medicine. A Ph.D. using the title Doctor is not, by that evidence alone, adopting an affectation. More recently, the practice of half-masting the flag for military deaths is, in fact, quite new, and there is a long tradition of honoring private citizens such as Whitney Houston that way.)
I suspect that the practice of addressing an Attorney General as General may have varied from state to state, and the fact that Janet Reno was a former Florida AG may have influenced its elevation to federal usage. It looks to me like the correct cue is the usage of address toward the President. Rarely does one directly address him as "President Obama"; traditionally we use "Mr. Obama", a practice supposedly initiated by George Washington. For the AG one would assume that "Mr. Holder" is therefore appropriate. But then, if there is a courtroom practice, "General Holder" would seem appropriate in the courtroom but not, perhaps, elsewhere.
Anyway, I doubt that apocrypha about Reno; it just comes across as too neat. I think the precedents are too numerous to accept that as anything but a folk etymology.
posted by dhartung at 11:29 PM on March 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
(Similarly, some forget that there were Doctors of Law and Philosophy centuries before there were Doctors of Medicine. A Ph.D. using the title Doctor is not, by that evidence alone, adopting an affectation. More recently, the practice of half-masting the flag for military deaths is, in fact, quite new, and there is a long tradition of honoring private citizens such as Whitney Houston that way.)
I suspect that the practice of addressing an Attorney General as General may have varied from state to state, and the fact that Janet Reno was a former Florida AG may have influenced its elevation to federal usage. It looks to me like the correct cue is the usage of address toward the President. Rarely does one directly address him as "President Obama"; traditionally we use "Mr. Obama", a practice supposedly initiated by George Washington. For the AG one would assume that "Mr. Holder" is therefore appropriate. But then, if there is a courtroom practice, "General Holder" would seem appropriate in the courtroom but not, perhaps, elsewhere.
Anyway, I doubt that apocrypha about Reno; it just comes across as too neat. I think the precedents are too numerous to accept that as anything but a folk etymology.
posted by dhartung at 11:29 PM on March 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
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posted by brownrd at 3:53 PM on March 3, 2012