Car Negotiations Advice Needed - ASAP

November 10, 2011 8:17 AM

How can I get to the price I want for my new car? (Need advice ASAP)

I'm in the middle of the negotiating process for a new car. It's been a long time since I've done this completely on my own, and I need some advice.

The dealership I'm working with has big hang tags on the cars they're selling, that shows their price. I found the exact same car listed on their web site, but listed for $1,382 less than their hang tag price. They've agreed to honor that price since I had the page from their site printed out and in-hand. The sales manager was not aware of it, so I was glad I'd brought it with me.

So, they should be using the lower price - $32,393 - as the starting price for their offer, but they started at $35,775, which is even higher than the hang tag price! I was rushed yesterday and had places to be, so I told them I would think about it and get back to them today.

I would have like to have paid $30k or under for this car, but I think I'm going to have to revise my bottom line to $31,500. Using their calculations of adding sales tax & DMV fees, LESS incentives of $3500, their price currently comes to $35k and change. Using the price that I found on their web site with the same calculations, my price comes to $32,249.

That's what they should be using since they agreed to the lower price, right??

And pushing them down another $750 to get to my $31,500 price shouldn't be that much more of a stretch, should it?

Help me get the price I want. Confirm for me, please, that I'm thinking this through correctly. I need to head back to the dealership in a couple of hours, so time is of the essence.

Thanks!

posted by SoftSummerBreeze to Work & Money (23 answers total)

It's not rocket science.

"$31,500 is the price I'm willing to pay, and no more".

They'll either go for it, or not. They're not under any obligation to sell you the car at your price, just as much as you're not obligated to buy it at their price. If you can't afford what they're asking, find a less expensive vehicle, or a dealer willing to sell it to you at your price.
posted by chrisfromthelc at 8:27 AM on November 10, 2011 [5 favorites]

First, stop using posted prices anywhere as a basis for your negotiation. The posted prices are utterly irrelevant to your negotiation. Use true dealer invoice from somewhere like Edmunds or Truecar as a basis for your negotiation. There is no such thing as the price a dealer "should" be using. Of course the dealer is "not aware of" a lower price. They will not willingly sell you the car for a lower price than you will pay just to be nice to you.

Second, stop worrying about sales tax, DMV fees, incentives, etc. The dealer will use these to confuse you - even to the best of car price negotiators. Ask for a fixed price with everything inclusive. Don't negotiate anything other than that price. The dealer can worry about fees and sales tax; you worry about the price.

Third, you need to approach this as telling the dealership the price you will pay rather than asking the dealership to decrease the price. The most effective negotiating technique I know if is simply to say "I will pay $xx,xxx for this car, today, in the form of a cashiers check". They will either say yes or no. If the answer is yes, buy the car. If the answer is no, shake the dealer's hand and walk away.
posted by saeculorum at 8:28 AM on November 10, 2011 [4 favorites]

Yeah this is just as simple as "The price on the web site said THIS which means this is where we start from..." and don't take any bullshit from them. In fact I don't think I'd even be going back to the dealer unless you've got a commitment from them [over email or a fax] that says they'll be starting at the price they said you'd be starting at when you spoke with them. Don't waste your time. Use a website as seaculorum says above and get a fair price and stick to it and dispense with the wheedling.
posted by jessamyn at 8:30 AM on November 10, 2011

Also, be careful when they go into talking payments. "Ok, how about $400 a month. that will work for you, right? " Then you get surprised whent he $400/month was for 72 months.

Know what your monthly payment is on the number you want at various percentage rates BEFORE you go back, as well. Find out what their offers are (1.9% for 36 months, etc) so you have the payment numbers as well as the total you have.
posted by rich at 8:33 AM on November 10, 2011

Walk away. Always be willing to actually walk away when it comes to negotiations; with car sales, its one of the best negotiation tactics you can use. There are a lot of car dealers out there, you don't have to deal with one that you think is trying to cheat you.

"It seems you can't help me out here. I want the car for $X (your low, low price), but it seems you can't do it for me. Thank you for your time." Hand shake. Done. See where that gets you.
posted by jabberjaw at 8:34 AM on November 10, 2011 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: I did contact them through Edmunds.com, but the salesman completely dropped the ball and stopped responding to me when I asked about the 2011 model they have on their lot and not the more expensive 2012. Bad move on his part and I intend to mention this to the sales manager, for what it's worth.

Since it's the 2011 I'm interested in and there's only one on the lot (and they're becoming more and more hard to find) I called the dealership yesterday and spoke with a different sales guy. He at least seems interested in making a sale.

The advice of Telling them my price, not Asking for it, is what I needed to hear!
posted by SoftSummerBreeze at 8:39 AM on November 10, 2011

They want your sale way more than you want the car. You can get the car at a multitude of places. A captive, qualified buyer with a relatively reasonable price is a very important thing to a dealership. Make them work for your business by working down to your price.
posted by litnerd at 8:39 AM on November 10, 2011

previously, some good and extremely detailed advice
posted by elizardbits at 8:41 AM on November 10, 2011 [3 favorites]

Is this car available anywhere else?

The technique I used which worked well was mostly the above, plus going to Dealer A, getting them to quote their best price for the car, then going to Dealer B and doing the same, then going to Dealer C. Then, I'd call back or visit Dealer A with the new prices for Dealer B and C and get their new best price, then back to B, then C again. Repeat until all the prices stop changing.

I ended up getting a price well below the Carmax price and way, way less than what Dealer A initially quoted.

So, just keep on going and ignore everything they say except for the final price, including fees and what not. They'll be dramatic, but in the end, there's only one thing that comes out of their mouths that matters.
posted by ignignokt at 8:59 AM on November 10, 2011

Here's my "buy a car" tips.

1) Always take a buddy with you when you go to the dealer. Make sure you and the buddy have signals in case you start to do something silly.

2) Call around and get prices from dealerships. Use their prices against each other. Get the name of the salesman at each place. Use the magic phrase, "I want to buy a car today. Is X car in stock? Give me your best 'out the door" price. Bob at Ripoff Motors will sell it to me for Y, can you beat that price? What is your name? My name is SoftSummerBreeze, write it down right now along with that quote."

3) Once you find the best price, go to that dealer. Load up on snacks. You'll be there a while.

4) They will probably forget that you got a quote on the phone. Talk to the salesman you got the quote from. If he forgets the price he gave you on the phone or tries to add bullshit fees -- you asked for the "out the door price" -- say the magic words, "why don't you want to sell me a car today?"

5) The longer you are there, the more time they have invested in you. If you walk in like a bull elephant they can chase you out in five minutes and that's nothing. If you walk in and sit down like you own the joint you will have their attention for two to four hours and they will not want to chase you away. (Salesman are notoriously bad at "sunk cost" equations.)

6) Never fall in love with a car or a dealer or a salesman or a deal. They are not your friends. You must always be prepared to stand up (wait!), walk out the door (can't we make a deal?), get in your car (let me talk to my manager!) and drive away.

7) Once you get a worksheet you are willing to agree to, photograph it in the hands of the salesman. Make sure you get "FEES INCLUDED" written on it. Worksheets tend to go missing.

8) Take your friend out for dinner somewhere really nice.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:09 AM on November 10, 2011 [6 favorites]

Keep in mind you have to be willing to walk away from the deal. Not just bluff, but really walk away and get something else. I know it's tempting to want this particular vehicle, right now, (it's human nature), but that can lead to losing any negotiating power.

Good luck!
posted by The Deej at 9:27 AM on November 10, 2011 [1 favorite]

I disagree with the advice to forget about tax, title, and other fees. The magic phrase you want is "Out the door." I am willing to pay $31500 out of the door for this car. Then when they agree, but somehow forgot to account for some fee or tax and give you a bottom line of $32,100, you smile, point out that $32,100 is not $31,500, and walk out. You'll never make it to the door without them caving.

This assumes that $31500 is a reasonable out the door price for this vehicle in the first place.
posted by COD at 9:31 AM on November 10, 2011

Response by poster: Take Note: If you happen to call a dealership via one of the phone numbers shown on Edmunds.com, the dealership will hear a recording that the call is coming from an Edmunds.com!

I called to check and see if another somewhat local dealership had an '11 in stock and she answered the phone "Hello". When I asked her if it was the dealership and then why she answered the phone like that she said it was because the Edmunds recording ran over her usual spiel.

Very, very strange!
posted by SoftSummerBreeze at 10:03 AM on November 10, 2011

Response by poster: Oh, and she was very helpful. Gave me all sorts of info, like the '11's *are becoming more difficult to find and to ask about their starting figure that's $2k more than the tag price.

I'm off to see if I can make this happen. Thanks for all the help, everyone!
posted by SoftSummerBreeze at 10:04 AM on November 10, 2011

truecar.com and not just for the price information, try their car buying service as well.

Sure 2011's are harder to find, because they're a year old. 2012 is what's for sale now. Tell them if you want last year's model (because it is the 2012 model year now) you won't pay anywhere near full price.

(Unless, for some reason, the 2012 is worse than the 2011 and you know it and they know it and they know you know it.)
posted by Brian Puccio at 10:25 AM on November 10, 2011

You shouldn't be going to edmunds.com as a way to contact them but as a way to look up the invoice price of the car you're looking at. You can do the same thing at truecar.com or kbb.com.

When I sold new cars, $100 over the invoice price was the lower limit.

When you're figuring out what the invoice price is, maybe sure you select the correct options and then make sure that the MSRP or "sticker" price matches the car that you're looking for.

It's okay to finance at the dealership and they can often get you a better rate than anything you can come up with on your own. This might only exist in Minnesota, the dealerships here can even sign you up for a loan through most of the popular credit unions in the area. Since this is a new car, there might be super cheap financing deals on it through the manufacturer anyways.

The "if you sell it to me for $xx,xxx price (plus taxes and fees), I'll buy it right now" language that saeculorum mentions is the way you should frame things.

Since this is a new car, it would hurt to mention that you'll give them perfect scores on any surveys that you receive after the purchase. Good scores on those surveys can often get the dealer incentives from the manufacturer, your sales person will probably benefit from it, or they get brownie points with the manufacturer at the least.
posted by VTX at 10:49 AM on November 10, 2011 [2 favorites]

Saeculorum and VTX have it. Why worry at all about the "starting price?" It's not like you get to knock 15% off the starting price no matter what it is. Posted prices are utterly meaningless. Don't start at one price point and attempt to work it down to a lower price. Start where you intend to end.

To do that, you need to educate yourself on what the car is actually worth. Nothing the dealer will show you is a trustworthy indicator of that value. Do your research and decide on a price you are comfortable with. It will be lower than the lowest price that any dealer offers in any advertisement or posting. Then make your offer and be prepared to walk away. They will tell you you're crazy, you've got bad information, they don't know where you got such wrongheaded advice. Or they'll say, "Wow, SoftSummerBreeze you are da man! You drive a hard bargain!" and then start with a shell game of adding in options and fees and taxes and crappy financing and whatever else they can to get their profit jacked up again, and you'll again have to walk away.

And then in most cases they'll cave, because you're offering them the chance to either make a little money or no money at all, and they grudgingly prefer the latter. This only happens if it's clear that you're going to walk away if they don't meet your price. If they're convinced you can't find the car you want elsewhere, you lose. If they think they can sell you on a different car than the one you're offering to buy, you lose. You only get the good deal if you leave them no rational choice but to give it to you.

Keep in mind that the dealer is not affected by selling a car at a low price the way you'd be affected by selling a car at a low price. You've got one car to sell, and once it's gone, it's gone. The dealer has access to an endless pipeline of cars at wholesale rates. He's going to take his little bit of profit and buy another car which he can sell to someone else - probably for a bigger chunk of profit.
posted by jon1270 at 10:57 AM on November 10, 2011

I'm surprised no one else has said this yet, so I will. Please try to be in less of a hurry. Or at least less obviously in a hurry. "Time is of the essence" is completely at odds with "help me get the price I want". Try to convey the message that getting a good buy is of utmost importance to you and that you're willing to invest the time needed to look around and visit other dealers, while also making clear that you're serious about buying in the near term if you find something acceptable.
posted by LowellLarson at 12:10 PM on November 10, 2011

Best answer: when i bought my new car, it was the first new car i'd ever bought. i really didn't know anything about my cars and only arrived to a decision on the make and model when i spoke to my uncle (who used to be a mechanic) about my wants and needs in a car. i did my research on the internet about what that particular car was selling for and walked into the dealership after i had called them to confirm they had what i wanted. there are only 2 volvo dealers in all of oregon and the one in portland was pretty much it. and they only had one of the car i wanted (unless i wanted to wait another 3 months when more were coming in) maybe i got lucky because the sales guy who helped me was very nice and not sleazy at all. we did the test drive and then when we sat down in his office, i started it off this way: i'd like that car, in that color, with these features and i want to pay this amount total with all fees, taxes, etc, included. i based the price i asked for on the research i did and i think bc it was a fair offer, i ended up getting it for pretty much the amount i asked.

a week after i got my car, i had to bring it in for them to install one of the features and when i was speaking to the guy who sold it to me, i'd mentioned that was my first new car negotation ever and he was amazed bc he thought i'd negotiated it really well.

bottom line: do your research and figure out a fair price for the car you want and ask for it. if they get bullish about it, just keep repeating that you've done your research and you think what you are offering is a fair price and you're not interested in paying more. and of course, be prepared to walk. there's always another car.
posted by violetk at 1:51 PM on November 10, 2011

Response by poster: You shouldn't be going to edmunds.com as a way to contact them but as a way to look up the invoice price of the car you're looking at. You can do the same thing at truecar.com or kbb.com.



Yes, I know. I was on Edmunds doing some final research and thought I'd call another somewhat local dealership just to see if they had an '11 on their lot. I didn't go to the site primarily to locate or call a dealership. I just found it very odd that the call announced that it was Edmunds' based. Wouldn't you if you were told that?
posted by SoftSummerBreeze at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2011

Response by poster: "Time is of the essence" is completely at odds with "help me get the price I want". Try to convey the message that getting a good buy is of utmost importance to you and that you're willing to invest the time needed to look around and visit other dealers, while also making clear that you're serious about buying in the near term if you find something acceptable.



The 'time is of the essence" and ASAP were simply because I needed to return their vehicle to them in a timely manner. Period. It had nothing to do with my urgency, or lack thereof, in obtaining a vehicle.
posted by SoftSummerBreeze at 5:00 PM on November 10, 2011

I think VTX has some worthy advice here. I bought a new SUV on Monday, and several times as the negotiations wound down the salesman mentioned how important it was that I end up feeling like I could give the dealership perfect scores on the upcoming survey (assuming I bought the vehicle).

At one point, his words were literally, "My future as a [brand] salesman is directly tied to your survey scores. A "9" out of a possible "10" is a failing grade".

It was at that point that I said I probably wouldn't be able to give them those "10's" unless they found a way to knock off another $500.00.

...which, after consulting with the "sales manager" did.

That said, I've often thought that if there was a way that the automotive industry could figure out a way make car buying something other than the most hated, disdained, disgusting, despicable prolonged pain in the ass process the average person ever has to go through, it would be mind boggling how many more new vehicles would be sold.
posted by imjustsaying at 7:50 PM on November 10, 2011

Standing firm on what you want and are willing to pay for it is great advice. Another thing that has worked for my family(my wife being the better negotiator), is to say "This car looks great, but I need to go to OtheDealer Motors down the street and check out [some specific vehicle] they're offering for [great price]. I'll get back to you after that." They don't want you playing them against other dealers, so their willingness to accommodate suddenly increases.
posted by owtytrof at 12:06 PM on November 11, 2011 [1 favorite]