What do we charge a visiting Japanese family to home-school their child?
November 7, 2011 5:55 PM Subscribe
A Japanese family visiting our town would like my wife, who home-schools, to teach their son. What should we charge?
My wife home-schools our children. A Japanese family is living in town for 6 months and would like my wife take on their their son for schooling with a strong emphasis on English.
The son would be here for schooling from 9-12 and we would either let him play here in the afternoon while waiting for his dad to pick him up or we would be driving him home (about a 20 minute drive). We would be feeding him lunch.
We live in a central Illinois college-town. My children are 7, 5, 3 and 1. The Japanese boy is 6. We don't speak any Japanese. The boy and his family speak almost no English.
How much should we charge? I'd be willing to answer any other questions to clarify, but honestly, we don't know where to start.
My wife home-schools our children. A Japanese family is living in town for 6 months and would like my wife take on their their son for schooling with a strong emphasis on English.
The son would be here for schooling from 9-12 and we would either let him play here in the afternoon while waiting for his dad to pick him up or we would be driving him home (about a 20 minute drive). We would be feeding him lunch.
We live in a central Illinois college-town. My children are 7, 5, 3 and 1. The Japanese boy is 6. We don't speak any Japanese. The boy and his family speak almost no English.
How much should we charge? I'd be willing to answer any other questions to clarify, but honestly, we don't know where to start.
In case the first part of my question wasn't clear, I was just hoping to clarify whether she has any particular training in elementary education, or teaching English as a foreign language.
posted by UniversityNomad at 6:03 PM on November 7, 2011
posted by UniversityNomad at 6:03 PM on November 7, 2011
Response by poster: She's been schooling for a couple of years, her Bachelor's is in Russian Language and Literature and she's never done anything like this before, though she's the oldest of 8 and was an au pere as a teenager so she can handle a big group of different-aged kids quite well.
posted by odragul at 6:08 PM on November 7, 2011
posted by odragul at 6:08 PM on November 7, 2011
Wow.
Why do they want this versus putting him in school?
Id first suggest a trial period in case it doesn't work out. What if the child is unruly or angry at not being able to communicate?
posted by k8t at 6:17 PM on November 7, 2011
Why do they want this versus putting him in school?
Id first suggest a trial period in case it doesn't work out. What if the child is unruly or angry at not being able to communicate?
posted by k8t at 6:17 PM on November 7, 2011
Best answer: $2000 a month should be your benchmark; that's about how much it would cost for the child to enroll in a local school as a foreign student. That works out to about $100 a day, or $30/hr + $10 for lunch and a drive home.
It should be said that students regularly pay $30/hr in Japan for one-on-one English-language lessons.
I think I would want to focus on providing value for money - can you provide a structured curriculum that will actually show results at the end of the 6 months?
If you think you can't, I would not take on this student. More than anything else, it's important for this child to get the best education during his time in Illinois.
On the other hand, it would be good to feel comfortable with what you are charging them. $5000 is about as low as I would go. Once again, this fee should have nothing to do with your experience, because if you think you will be unable to provide reasonably high quality instruction you should not take this contract.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:19 PM on November 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
It should be said that students regularly pay $30/hr in Japan for one-on-one English-language lessons.
I think I would want to focus on providing value for money - can you provide a structured curriculum that will actually show results at the end of the 6 months?
If you think you can't, I would not take on this student. More than anything else, it's important for this child to get the best education during his time in Illinois.
On the other hand, it would be good to feel comfortable with what you are charging them. $5000 is about as low as I would go. Once again, this fee should have nothing to do with your experience, because if you think you will be unable to provide reasonably high quality instruction you should not take this contract.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:19 PM on November 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Id first suggest a trial period in case it doesn't work out. What if the child is unruly or angry at not being able to communicate?
I think it's actually a good situation - the child has the potential to be in a trusting environment, and build real relationships. If he's put in regular school, he'll have to fend for himself, and will get no special assistance from the teacher.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:21 PM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think it's actually a good situation - the child has the potential to be in a trusting environment, and build real relationships. If he's put in regular school, he'll have to fend for himself, and will get no special assistance from the teacher.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:21 PM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: They are essentially tourists. They're not here on a work visa or anything, so legally, there are restrictions on enrolling him in school (I don't know the law, but this is how the person facilitating this deal explained it). It seems they are looking to use our home-school as an English-immersion experience. They looked at day-cares in the area, but there were lots of foreign students in them, so they weren't confident in the amount and quality of English he would be exposed to.
As a benchmark for how good of a teacher my wife is, my 7 year-old (6 at the time) tested at 11th grade reading level last year. She uses Montessori methods (she's not certified) which the family seemed to appreciate.
posted by odragul at 6:28 PM on November 7, 2011
As a benchmark for how good of a teacher my wife is, my 7 year-old (6 at the time) tested at 11th grade reading level last year. She uses Montessori methods (she's not certified) which the family seemed to appreciate.
posted by odragul at 6:28 PM on November 7, 2011
This sort of thing was common when I taught in Japan in the 90s (after moving to universities etc in the first half of the decade I lost touch with the for-profit English teaching business, thank god, although I did run a "cram school" in Japan for 5 years), where parents would send their kids to Canada, the US and Australia for "homestay" experiences.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:36 PM on November 7, 2011
posted by KokuRyu at 6:36 PM on November 7, 2011
Best answer: Like KokuRyu, I'd look at it as starting from an hourly rate -- what would you feel comfortable charging per hour for instruction? I'd also agree that something in the $20-$30 per hour range sounds about right.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:50 PM on November 7, 2011
posted by Rock Steady at 6:50 PM on November 7, 2011
Remember that a wealthy-ish Japanese family in Japan is going to be spending around $1,000 a month on cram school for their child for 12 years, and that's not even known for being particularly effective. I'd say paying $10-15,000 for him to master English while he's young would be a great bargain in the long run. Just be sure to emphasize how he can keep those skills after he goes home -- maybe give him lessons that his parents can help with (eg reading Harry Potter in English while the parents read it in Japanese).
posted by miyabo at 7:23 PM on November 7, 2011
posted by miyabo at 7:23 PM on November 7, 2011
Best answer: FWIW, I think miyabo's estimate here is very high. Just because a "wealthy-ish Japanese family in Japan" would pay a high rate for cram school doesn't mean you should take advantage of this family and try to extort a higher rate from them than you would be willing to pay for a similar service in their place. This is not Japan, it is Illinois.
Personally, since your wife will only be teaching this boy for three hours a day, I would determine an hourly rate that you would have to pay for a tutor if, say, your wife was unable to teach the kids herself, and maybe add a little on if the language barrier poses a significant obstacle (though this could be an excellent opportunity for your kids to pick up some Japanese, too).
I was actually thinking $30 an hour would be an average rate for a one-on-one session with a private tutor, but your wife's time will be divided among five children, one of whom at least is till in diapers, right? So she will have other demands on her. I'd think $25 an hour and $5 for lunch (what kid's lunch costs $10!) would be reasonable. Five days a week, that comes to $400 a week, ~$1600 a month.
posted by misha at 7:55 PM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Personally, since your wife will only be teaching this boy for three hours a day, I would determine an hourly rate that you would have to pay for a tutor if, say, your wife was unable to teach the kids herself, and maybe add a little on if the language barrier poses a significant obstacle (though this could be an excellent opportunity for your kids to pick up some Japanese, too).
I was actually thinking $30 an hour would be an average rate for a one-on-one session with a private tutor, but your wife's time will be divided among five children, one of whom at least is till in diapers, right? So she will have other demands on her. I'd think $25 an hour and $5 for lunch (what kid's lunch costs $10!) would be reasonable. Five days a week, that comes to $400 a week, ~$1600 a month.
posted by misha at 7:55 PM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'd say an hourly rate of about $20 seems reasonable. But it depends on the curriculum. Will his lessons be very casual, with little structure; the "osmosis method"? Or will his day be highly structured, with lots of intensive ESL lessons? I would charge less for the former, and more for the latter.
A six year old boy that only knows Japanese will find it very tough the first few weeks and will probably not show any improvement for a while. But kids that age are sponges, and as long as there is a lot of interaction, he should be ok.
posted by zardoz at 8:29 PM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
A six year old boy that only knows Japanese will find it very tough the first few weeks and will probably not show any improvement for a while. But kids that age are sponges, and as long as there is a lot of interaction, he should be ok.
posted by zardoz at 8:29 PM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Remember that a wealthy-ish Japanese family in Japan is going to be spending around $1,000 a month on cram school for their child for 12 years, and that's not even known for being particularly effective.
I ran a cram school (we had 70 students and employed 4 instructors) and, while I don't doubt there are cram schools that charge this, even a "premium" school in a metropolitan centre would only be half of this (we charged 75 bucks a student per subject, and maybe 30% of our students paid us $150 a month for 2 subjects).
posted by KokuRyu at 9:30 PM on November 7, 2011
I ran a cram school (we had 70 students and employed 4 instructors) and, while I don't doubt there are cram schools that charge this, even a "premium" school in a metropolitan centre would only be half of this (we charged 75 bucks a student per subject, and maybe 30% of our students paid us $150 a month for 2 subjects).
posted by KokuRyu at 9:30 PM on November 7, 2011
You may have already looked into this, but is what you're proposing even legal in your jurisdiction? Can you charge someone to teach a child without any kind of licensing? Or care for them in your home?
posted by jacquilynne at 9:42 PM on November 7, 2011
posted by jacquilynne at 9:42 PM on November 7, 2011
Best answer: $2000 a month is insane. Not only is this not accurate for a public school, many districts and states have provisions for visiting foreign students that would let the child attend public schools for free.
What your wife's time is worth is a different story, one that depends as much on how much extra preparation work and time this additional child will require. I'd say $200 a week is reasonable, or maybe $1000 per month, especially given the hours of tuition (3 hours/day).
All of that said, I agree with KokoRyu that you need to consider the value you'll be providing the child. Your wife should investigate the grade-level expectations for Japanese students in the same age range and start thinking about whether she can help the student keep pace with his peers when/if he returns to Japan. If she'll need to do more work to prep herself, she may want to charge more for her time.
posted by yellowcandy at 9:46 PM on November 7, 2011
What your wife's time is worth is a different story, one that depends as much on how much extra preparation work and time this additional child will require. I'd say $200 a week is reasonable, or maybe $1000 per month, especially given the hours of tuition (3 hours/day).
All of that said, I agree with KokoRyu that you need to consider the value you'll be providing the child. Your wife should investigate the grade-level expectations for Japanese students in the same age range and start thinking about whether she can help the student keep pace with his peers when/if he returns to Japan. If she'll need to do more work to prep herself, she may want to charge more for her time.
posted by yellowcandy at 9:46 PM on November 7, 2011
$200 a week is nuts. Absolutely nuts for offering immersive, one-on-one instruction, plus lunch, plus after-school supervision, plus transportation.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:57 PM on November 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by KokuRyu at 9:57 PM on November 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
People keep saying "three hours a day" without accounting for any extra time spent on adapting the curriculum for a student who knows very little English.
posted by RobotHero at 10:16 PM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotHero at 10:16 PM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would look at what daycare providers in your area are charging and use that as somewhere to at least start. Charge them an hourly rate, for sure.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:53 AM on November 8, 2011
posted by DarlingBri at 12:53 AM on November 8, 2011
Best answer: Besides the 3 hours of instruction plus lunch each day, don't forget to also consider the afternoon daycare you'll be providing when considering how much to charge: it sounds like the child won't be in your wife's care JUST three hours a day, but could easily be at your home all day, every day. After all, even if you or she could drive him home (and make sure to charge for each of those trips, too) it won't always mean you SHOULD drive him home: his parents might not be there to receive him.
So: whatever you decide to charge, it shouldn't be a flat daily fee, because there are lots of variables. Charge separately for
1. classroom instruction time, at an hourly rate. ($30/hour sounds good)
2. lunch/snacks ($5)
3. transportation, per trip (depends on milage: $x per mile)
4. afternoon daycare, at an hourly rate (maybe $15/hour?)
posted by easily confused at 2:21 AM on November 8, 2011
So: whatever you decide to charge, it shouldn't be a flat daily fee, because there are lots of variables. Charge separately for
1. classroom instruction time, at an hourly rate. ($30/hour sounds good)
2. lunch/snacks ($5)
3. transportation, per trip (depends on milage: $x per mile)
4. afternoon daycare, at an hourly rate (maybe $15/hour?)
posted by easily confused at 2:21 AM on November 8, 2011
One additional thought, on whether your family should even do this: will you and your wife end up spending so much effort instructing this non-English-speaking child that your own kids are affected? How much will teaching this other child take away from the time & work currently spent on them?
posted by easily confused at 5:39 AM on November 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 5:39 AM on November 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I agree this seems more odd to you than them - i know someone who worked for a university who was asked to do something similar for a japanese child about the same age whose parents were working here for a year.
I would keep your fee structure as simple as possible, ie - 90.00 a day if he stays only through lunch. 100.00 a day if he stays until his dad picks him up for example. Breaking it down into lunch and mileage etc, is confusing especially if communication will be hard anyway. Find out the going rate for day care for a child that age and tack that onto your instruction rate. The day rate for child care usually has lunch built in. I imagine it will be somewhere around 20.00 a day, not 15.00 an hour for a 6 year old.
Something else to keep in mind - you will want to spell out explicitly what happens on holidays or if your kids or you are sick or if you have appointments. You will also want to make clear if you want advance notice on days he needs to stay all day versus go home so you can plan you days. I imagine you will only expect to paid if he is actually there, but setting the tone upfront is a benefit to all of you. You will want to make clear what time he needs to be picked up and dropped off. Nothing wrong with giving them a window, but i would give them a firm No later than and No earlier than time frame to keep from getting taken advantage of.
Sounds like there is the potential for a really great learning experience for not only him but you and your children as well.
posted by domino at 6:37 AM on November 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would keep your fee structure as simple as possible, ie - 90.00 a day if he stays only through lunch. 100.00 a day if he stays until his dad picks him up for example. Breaking it down into lunch and mileage etc, is confusing especially if communication will be hard anyway. Find out the going rate for day care for a child that age and tack that onto your instruction rate. The day rate for child care usually has lunch built in. I imagine it will be somewhere around 20.00 a day, not 15.00 an hour for a 6 year old.
Something else to keep in mind - you will want to spell out explicitly what happens on holidays or if your kids or you are sick or if you have appointments. You will also want to make clear if you want advance notice on days he needs to stay all day versus go home so you can plan you days. I imagine you will only expect to paid if he is actually there, but setting the tone upfront is a benefit to all of you. You will want to make clear what time he needs to be picked up and dropped off. Nothing wrong with giving them a window, but i would give them a firm No later than and No earlier than time frame to keep from getting taken advantage of.
Sounds like there is the potential for a really great learning experience for not only him but you and your children as well.
posted by domino at 6:37 AM on November 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
$200 a week is nuts. Absolutely nuts for offering immersive, one-on-one instruction, plus lunch, plus after-school supervision, plus transportation.
Yeah, we have a babysitter for when our 10-year-old is out of school and she charges $35/day (so $175/week) to watch while my daughter hangs out with her similar aged daughter. For an actual education for a 6-year-old you should be charging much more.
Something else to keep in mind - you will want to spell out explicitly what happens on holidays or if your kids or you are sick or if you have appointments.
This is a very good point. Be sure to be up front about all the eventualities you can think of.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:00 AM on November 8, 2011
Yeah, we have a babysitter for when our 10-year-old is out of school and she charges $35/day (so $175/week) to watch while my daughter hangs out with her similar aged daughter. For an actual education for a 6-year-old you should be charging much more.
Something else to keep in mind - you will want to spell out explicitly what happens on holidays or if your kids or you are sick or if you have appointments.
This is a very good point. Be sure to be up front about all the eventualities you can think of.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:00 AM on November 8, 2011
Best answer: From NACCRA (National Association of Child Care Resource & Referral Agencies):
Average, annual fees paid for full-time care for a 4-year-old in a family child-care home
Illinois:$6,595 (~550/month)
National: $3,780-$11,475
Average, annual fees paid for before- and after-school care for a school-age child in a family child care home:
Illinois: $4,186
National: $1,805-$9,360
Chiaravalle Montessori School in Evanston
Lower Elementary (8:30-3:00) - $14,440 (~$1600 a month for nine months)
Alcuin Montessori in Oak Park, IL: Junior Elementary, 6 to 9 years, Monday-Friday, 8:30 a.m. to 3:15 p.m.: $11,825 (~$1300 for 9 months)
Keep in mind: an actual school will have accredited teachers, computer labs, gyms, science facilities, tons of other materials. But a home school like yours has more individual attention and directed learning. I'd say these two sides (more or less) cancel each other out, and would charge what a good local Montessori or Waldorf or other Alternative school would charge for that age. If the education is only half day (until 12 noon instead of 3pm) then reduce the fee a bit, but not by half.
posted by barnone at 9:36 AM on November 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Average, annual fees paid for full-time care for a 4-year-old in a family child-care home
Illinois:$6,595 (~550/month)
National: $3,780-$11,475
Average, annual fees paid for before- and after-school care for a school-age child in a family child care home:
Illinois: $4,186
National: $1,805-$9,360
Chiaravalle Montessori School in Evanston
Lower Elementary (8:30-3:00) - $14,440 (~$1600 a month for nine months)
Alcuin Montessori in Oak Park, IL: Junior Elementary, 6 to 9 years, Monday-Friday, 8:30 a.m. to 3:15 p.m.: $11,825 (~$1300 for 9 months)
Keep in mind: an actual school will have accredited teachers, computer labs, gyms, science facilities, tons of other materials. But a home school like yours has more individual attention and directed learning. I'd say these two sides (more or less) cancel each other out, and would charge what a good local Montessori or Waldorf or other Alternative school would charge for that age. If the education is only half day (until 12 noon instead of 3pm) then reduce the fee a bit, but not by half.
posted by barnone at 9:36 AM on November 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
But only do it if your wife thinks that money would be beneficial for the family at large, and whether it's worth her time and stress.
Whatever you decide, ensure that the first month is a trial for both sides, and that you will both decide whether to continue after that month. If it doesn't work out as you'd hoped, you don't want to be in the position of continuing out of guilt.
posted by barnone at 9:39 AM on November 8, 2011
Whatever you decide, ensure that the first month is a trial for both sides, and that you will both decide whether to continue after that month. If it doesn't work out as you'd hoped, you don't want to be in the position of continuing out of guilt.
posted by barnone at 9:39 AM on November 8, 2011
Best answer: Let's get real here.
I actually, figuring Iliois would be more expensive than FL, because everyting else is, tried to give what I felt was a higher estimate than I would pay. But I researched the actual rates for Montessori schools in Illinois, and here's what I found:
Alcuin Montessori school in Illinois: 3-6 year-olds pay $3500 tuition for 11:30-3:00 in the day house, while full-day, 8:30- 3:15 elementary students, the highest rate available, pay $11,825 a year. Figure a 9 month school year, that's $310 a month and ~$1313 a month, respectively.
Even if you feel your wife offers twice the value of the certified Montessori day house because of the smaller class size, we'd be talking about $155 a week. If you charged them twice the highest rate the private Montessori school charges for full-day students it would still only be ~$656 a week.
posted by misha at 10:08 AM on November 8, 2011
I actually, figuring Iliois would be more expensive than FL, because everyting else is, tried to give what I felt was a higher estimate than I would pay. But I researched the actual rates for Montessori schools in Illinois, and here's what I found:
Alcuin Montessori school in Illinois: 3-6 year-olds pay $3500 tuition for 11:30-3:00 in the day house, while full-day, 8:30- 3:15 elementary students, the highest rate available, pay $11,825 a year. Figure a 9 month school year, that's $310 a month and ~$1313 a month, respectively.
Even if you feel your wife offers twice the value of the certified Montessori day house because of the smaller class size, we'd be talking about $155 a week. If you charged them twice the highest rate the private Montessori school charges for full-day students it would still only be ~$656 a week.
posted by misha at 10:08 AM on November 8, 2011
Best answer: The challenge with comparing this situation to Montessori is economies of scale - Montessori schools typically have enrollment of more than one student (to say the least), which help bring down per capita costs.
And cost is the issue here - how much is your time worth? Personally, having taught in a variety of settings for over ten years, I do not like to give out my services for free - I value my time, and teaching is not a minimum wage job.
I think the Japanese parents in this case would understand that it would be cheaper to send the child to an actual school (where the number of students would help bring down the cost of tuition). There are fixed costs no matter what the number of students, and one of those fixed costs are the minimum hourly rate to make sense for the teacher to take on the assignment.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:13 AM on November 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
And cost is the issue here - how much is your time worth? Personally, having taught in a variety of settings for over ten years, I do not like to give out my services for free - I value my time, and teaching is not a minimum wage job.
I think the Japanese parents in this case would understand that it would be cheaper to send the child to an actual school (where the number of students would help bring down the cost of tuition). There are fixed costs no matter what the number of students, and one of those fixed costs are the minimum hourly rate to make sense for the teacher to take on the assignment.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:13 AM on November 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I want to thank everybody for the reponses. We ended up giving a low price for several reasons:
1) We weren't sure if there were other families in the running, so we didn't want to get under-cut.
2) This child will be one of several in our home-school. He'll be the only "paying" student, but still, it's not a private-tutor type of arrangement.
3) We value the experience for own children. Although we want to be sure the focus remains on this student learning English, our children certainly will benefit from the experience and that is important to us.
4) This is my wife's first time. Although we're confident it will work out great, it seems right to charge a lower rate since she's not credentialed.
We settled on $30 per day for instruction and an additional $5-10 for transportation per day. It'll come out to ~$600 per month plus transportation costs. Not too much, but my wife is comfortable with the compensation as the marginal increase in time she will spend in preparation and schooling will not increase that much.
Even though we went with a much lower prce than was recommended, I appreciate your thoughtful responses. We are sure they are getting quite a deal, Our town has a large enough foreign population that if this works, we might try to solicit similar arrangements in the future. If that were the case, we would be inclined to charge something more along the lines of what's suggested above.
posted by odragul at 12:37 PM on November 11, 2011
1) We weren't sure if there were other families in the running, so we didn't want to get under-cut.
2) This child will be one of several in our home-school. He'll be the only "paying" student, but still, it's not a private-tutor type of arrangement.
3) We value the experience for own children. Although we want to be sure the focus remains on this student learning English, our children certainly will benefit from the experience and that is important to us.
4) This is my wife's first time. Although we're confident it will work out great, it seems right to charge a lower rate since she's not credentialed.
We settled on $30 per day for instruction and an additional $5-10 for transportation per day. It'll come out to ~$600 per month plus transportation costs. Not too much, but my wife is comfortable with the compensation as the marginal increase in time she will spend in preparation and schooling will not increase that much.
Even though we went with a much lower prce than was recommended, I appreciate your thoughtful responses. We are sure they are getting quite a deal, Our town has a large enough foreign population that if this works, we might try to solicit similar arrangements in the future. If that were the case, we would be inclined to charge something more along the lines of what's suggested above.
posted by odragul at 12:37 PM on November 11, 2011
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posted by UniversityNomad at 6:01 PM on November 7, 2011