Yes, I hope to be that professor who does the poetry/hip hop thing.
November 1, 2011 10:02 AM Subscribe
Poetry class: What would be good rap songs for a community college crowd?
I'm planning to put together a buncha rap songs that I can play for my community college students. All I'm asking them to do is describe the theme, so the songs don't need to be of any particular flavor, as long as they aren't gansta/ho stuff. So far my list is a couple of more political songs from Beastie Boys' Five Boroughs, Blackstar's "Definition," and Mos Def's "Ms. Fat Booty."
Bonus question: What is the standard for introducing obscenities in this context? Is this a 'check with the dean' question?
Thanks everybody!
I'm planning to put together a buncha rap songs that I can play for my community college students. All I'm asking them to do is describe the theme, so the songs don't need to be of any particular flavor, as long as they aren't gansta/ho stuff. So far my list is a couple of more political songs from Beastie Boys' Five Boroughs, Blackstar's "Definition," and Mos Def's "Ms. Fat Booty."
Bonus question: What is the standard for introducing obscenities in this context? Is this a 'check with the dean' question?
Thanks everybody!
Look into nerd rap, like MC Chris. He's got some great tunes that are a little bit silly and might be more easy to relate to for someone who has no prior knowledge or exposure to hip hop
Reese All about Reese's Peanut butter candy
Nerd Grrrll the virtues of geek girls
Also check out Mc Frontalot, MC Lars, etc.
First World Problem MC Frontalot raps about the vicissitudes of life in the 1st world
posted by cosmicbandito at 10:15 AM on November 1, 2011
Reese All about Reese's Peanut butter candy
Nerd Grrrll the virtues of geek girls
Also check out Mc Frontalot, MC Lars, etc.
First World Problem MC Frontalot raps about the vicissitudes of life in the 1st world
posted by cosmicbandito at 10:15 AM on November 1, 2011
"My Philosophy" - Boogie Down Productions
"Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos" or "Fight the Power" - Public Enemy
"Paid in Full" - Eric B. & Rakim
posted by mattbucher at 10:16 AM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
"Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos" or "Fight the Power" - Public Enemy
"Paid in Full" - Eric B. & Rakim
posted by mattbucher at 10:16 AM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
-walk alone by the roots
-now or never by the roots
-right on by the roots
-testify by common (interesting twist, listen to the song!)
posted by sincerely-s at 10:17 AM on November 1, 2011
-now or never by the roots
-right on by the roots
-testify by common (interesting twist, listen to the song!)
posted by sincerely-s at 10:17 AM on November 1, 2011
Eminem's Lose Yourself; Tupac's Dear Mama; T.I.'s Dead and Gone
I don't think you need dean permission but an announcement in class that the lyrics are explicit.
posted by shoesietart at 10:17 AM on November 1, 2011
I don't think you need dean permission but an announcement in class that the lyrics are explicit.
posted by shoesietart at 10:17 AM on November 1, 2011
This IS kind of a gangsta song, but the perspective it brings is pretty interesting: Mind Playing Tricks On Me, by the Geto Boys. I was sitting in on a college songwriting class with Stew and he pointed out the line "Day by day it's more impossible to cope/I feel like I'm the one that's doing dope." It's a great example of how the rapper gets his personal struggle across to the listeners in a relatable way -- they know how bad USING drugs supposedly is, but when it comes to the dealers all you ever hear is how awesome life is because they have so much money and know all the cool people.
(Stew bookended this discussion with Chuck Berry's School Days. He mentioned the lines "That teacher don't know how mean she looks" and "the guy behind you won't leave you alone." As he put it, "Everybody from Russia to the Congo has THAT GUY in the classroom. EVERYBODY knows how that feels.")
posted by Madamina at 10:17 AM on November 1, 2011
(Stew bookended this discussion with Chuck Berry's School Days. He mentioned the lines "That teacher don't know how mean she looks" and "the guy behind you won't leave you alone." As he put it, "Everybody from Russia to the Congo has THAT GUY in the classroom. EVERYBODY knows how that feels.")
posted by Madamina at 10:17 AM on November 1, 2011
Dessa. Dessa Dessa Dessa. Here's an article about her.
Matches to Paper Dolls. I'd've preferred to have linked to another song off that album, but she's not big enough that everything she's ever done is on youtube.
Honestly you could take your pick from anyone in the Twin Cities hip hop scene - Atmosphere, P.O.S., Eyedea, Brother Ali - it's all really fucking good. But if you specifically want to talk about poetry in hip hop, I think Dessa's a good place to go.
posted by kavasa at 10:23 AM on November 1, 2011
Matches to Paper Dolls. I'd've preferred to have linked to another song off that album, but she's not big enough that everything she's ever done is on youtube.
Honestly you could take your pick from anyone in the Twin Cities hip hop scene - Atmosphere, P.O.S., Eyedea, Brother Ali - it's all really fucking good. But if you specifically want to talk about poetry in hip hop, I think Dessa's a good place to go.
posted by kavasa at 10:23 AM on November 1, 2011
For other commenters: Please note this section of the question: "the songs don't need to be of any particular flavor, as long as they aren't gansta/ho stuff."
For the OP: What are you hoping to accomplish here? To show your students that poetry is relevant? To show them how with-it you are? To showcase some emcees that use a lot of poetic devices?
posted by box at 10:27 AM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
For the OP: What are you hoping to accomplish here? To show your students that poetry is relevant? To show them how with-it you are? To showcase some emcees that use a lot of poetic devices?
posted by box at 10:27 AM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
"So Many Tears" by 2Pac. Completely heartbreaking song about depression and gangsta life. "My mind couldn't find a place to rest until I got that 'thug life' tatted on my chest."
"Drop It Like It's Hot" by Snoop Dogg with Pharrell. There's just so much lovely stuff going on in this song. Pharrell's verse, especially, piles on the wordplay. "I could exercise you, this could be your phys-ed, cheat on your man, ma, that's how you get ahizzead" just kills me.
"Make You Feel That Way" by Blackalicious. Everybody loves this song because it is the most feel-goodiest of all the feel-good rap songs. It's really beautiful.
posted by milk white peacock at 10:28 AM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
"Drop It Like It's Hot" by Snoop Dogg with Pharrell. There's just so much lovely stuff going on in this song. Pharrell's verse, especially, piles on the wordplay. "I could exercise you, this could be your phys-ed, cheat on your man, ma, that's how you get ahizzead" just kills me.
"Make You Feel That Way" by Blackalicious. Everybody loves this song because it is the most feel-goodiest of all the feel-good rap songs. It's really beautiful.
posted by milk white peacock at 10:28 AM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Ghostface Killah is one of my favourite poets.
'All that I got is you' is just great, and it's a rare GFK song that doesn't crackle with mad n-bombs and misogyny.
But it depends on what you're doing with this lesson plan. There's a great book called The Book of Ryhmes that presents a lot of different rap lyrics on the page to better illustrate the poetry of the form. The introduction's not bad either.
posted by emilycardigan at 11:04 AM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
'All that I got is you' is just great, and it's a rare GFK song that doesn't crackle with mad n-bombs and misogyny.
But it depends on what you're doing with this lesson plan. There's a great book called The Book of Ryhmes that presents a lot of different rap lyrics on the page to better illustrate the poetry of the form. The introduction's not bad either.
posted by emilycardigan at 11:04 AM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm rap-stupid, so I'll address the second question:
Bonus question: What is the standard for introducing obscenities in this context? Is this a 'check with the dean' question?
This might depend on where you live (if you're in the deep south, I've heard colleges can be more conservative), but in my career teaching poetry, I never hesitated at including obscenities. Your students are adults and should be able to handle it--more, if you leave out the cursing, then you also pretty much can't teach beat poetry or underground zine poetry or a whole bunch of really good poems.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:07 AM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Bonus question: What is the standard for introducing obscenities in this context? Is this a 'check with the dean' question?
This might depend on where you live (if you're in the deep south, I've heard colleges can be more conservative), but in my career teaching poetry, I never hesitated at including obscenities. Your students are adults and should be able to handle it--more, if you leave out the cursing, then you also pretty much can't teach beat poetry or underground zine poetry or a whole bunch of really good poems.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:07 AM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Whoops. The book reccomendation I meant to make was The Anthology of Rap.
The Book of Rhymes is also good, but is more argumentative and doesn't include the lyrics themselves, or at least not as extensively.
posted by emilycardigan at 11:08 AM on November 1, 2011
The Book of Rhymes is also good, but is more argumentative and doesn't include the lyrics themselves, or at least not as extensively.
posted by emilycardigan at 11:08 AM on November 1, 2011
C.R.E.A.M. by Wu-tang
posted by handbanana at 11:17 AM on November 1, 2011
posted by handbanana at 11:17 AM on November 1, 2011
"Why are there so many errors in The Anthology of Rap?"
posted by box at 11:18 AM on November 1, 2011
posted by box at 11:18 AM on November 1, 2011
You mentioned Beastie Boys, I hope you include their Bodhisattva Vow.
posted by zombieApoc at 11:25 AM on November 1, 2011
posted by zombieApoc at 11:25 AM on November 1, 2011
What are you trying to teach? Is this a poetry class, and you're talking about flow? (Which is in the tag, but not the question...) Or is this more about the social context? Both?
I'd vote Black & Proud by Brand Nubian for the former. White Lines by Grandmaster Flash for the latter.
Obviously, there is tons to choose from. Not sure what you're going for.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:35 AM on November 1, 2011
I'd vote Black & Proud by Brand Nubian for the former. White Lines by Grandmaster Flash for the latter.
Obviously, there is tons to choose from. Not sure what you're going for.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:35 AM on November 1, 2011
Whoops--I was looking at the more inside, and not the front page part. My mistake! I'd still propose Brand Nubian for flow in general--I do love some Grand Puba. But probably could still use some more information about what, exactly, you're trying to teach using rap.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:44 AM on November 1, 2011
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:44 AM on November 1, 2011
Response by poster: Yeah, sorry for the ambiguity folks. Mostly the class is completely blargh on poetry -- everything from John Donne to Elizabeth Bishop. Nobody got the irony in "Dulce et Decorum est," which really surprised me.
Every class I start with a writing/reflection exercise. This one (i.e., with the rap) I want to posit: We have poetry written today. Listen to these lyrics. What are they saying? The "what are they saying" is the only thing I want the students to attend to, meanwhile hopefully their minds will be opened up to the glories of poetry and they'll all change their majors to Humanities and be penniless for life. Or something.
With regards to gansta/ho avoidance, I'm hoping to avoid songs where women are degraded (I'm not puritanical on the subject, but I would wince at "99 Anthems" even though I think the lyrics are great aside from the refrain).
Thank you all so much for your suggestions thus far!
posted by angrycat at 11:44 AM on November 1, 2011
Every class I start with a writing/reflection exercise. This one (i.e., with the rap) I want to posit: We have poetry written today. Listen to these lyrics. What are they saying? The "what are they saying" is the only thing I want the students to attend to, meanwhile hopefully their minds will be opened up to the glories of poetry and they'll all change their majors to Humanities and be penniless for life. Or something.
With regards to gansta/ho avoidance, I'm hoping to avoid songs where women are degraded (I'm not puritanical on the subject, but I would wince at "99 Anthems" even though I think the lyrics are great aside from the refrain).
Thank you all so much for your suggestions thus far!
posted by angrycat at 11:44 AM on November 1, 2011
Just a Friend - Bizmarkie
posted by unreasonable at 11:58 AM on November 1, 2011
posted by unreasonable at 11:58 AM on November 1, 2011
The whole gangsta rap issue a great illustration of the kinds of discussion you could and should have in your class. Where's the line that separates things with artistic merit from things that exploit and glamorize a dangerous way of life? And yes, poetry has been and is still used for shock value, but to what degree, and how? What's shock for shock's sake?
posted by Madamina at 12:03 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by Madamina at 12:03 PM on November 1, 2011
How about E Pluribus Unum by The Last Poets?
And speaking of money, how about Don't Let Money Change Ya by Blackalicious? Another one I love by them is Alphabet Aerobics.
posted by seriousmoonlight at 12:08 PM on November 1, 2011
And speaking of money, how about Don't Let Money Change Ya by Blackalicious? Another one I love by them is Alphabet Aerobics.
posted by seriousmoonlight at 12:08 PM on November 1, 2011
I love "Just a Friend" by Bizmarkie, seconding that one.
posted by shoesietart at 12:19 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by shoesietart at 12:19 PM on November 1, 2011
Yeah, sorry for the ambiguity folks. Mostly the class is completely blargh on poetry -- everything from John Donne to Elizabeth Bishop. Nobody got the irony in "Dulce et Decorum est," which really surprised me.
That's . . . not a really wide range, in terms of what will feel contemporary to 19 year olds. You might want to try some Beat poetry, some spoken word, some modern surreal stuff ("You are Jeff" by Richard Siken always blew the minds of my students--ditto, "Letters to Wendy's" by Joe Wenderoth), and you might consider selections from this book in the future. It's what turned me on to poetry as a 17-year-old, and I found that selections from it seemed to get my students really participating in a way that more traditional verse never did.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:30 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
That's . . . not a really wide range, in terms of what will feel contemporary to 19 year olds. You might want to try some Beat poetry, some spoken word, some modern surreal stuff ("You are Jeff" by Richard Siken always blew the minds of my students--ditto, "Letters to Wendy's" by Joe Wenderoth), and you might consider selections from this book in the future. It's what turned me on to poetry as a 17-year-old, and I found that selections from it seemed to get my students really participating in a way that more traditional verse never did.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:30 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
2nding Eminem's "Lose Yourself." You might also include a viewing of this Youtube video explaining the rhyme scheme, if you are able.
posted by Gilbert at 12:37 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by Gilbert at 12:37 PM on November 1, 2011
Lupe Fiasco - Streets On Fire hits a good mix of popular rapper, good beats and thoughtful poetry - an apocalyptic meditation on death, riots, disease, justice and the ghetto.
posted by naju at 1:27 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by naju at 1:27 PM on November 1, 2011
"One Love" by Nas is great. It deals with gang themes, but in a non-glorifying, tragic way.
posted by meadowlark lime at 1:58 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by meadowlark lime at 1:58 PM on November 1, 2011
Seconding PhoBWanKenobi that the poets I think of when I think of "John Dunne to Elizabeth Bishop" are not ones I think of as very relevant to most 19 year olds. While I am totally with you on trying again, because poetry is AWESOME, I wonder if you've tried introducing them to any of these poets (these I don't think of when I think of Dunne to Bishop) before moving to rap: Langston Hughes, Gwendolyn Brooks, Alastair Reid, Philip Larkin, Nikki Giovanni. (Very possibly you have!)
On Dulce et Decorum est, just to play devil's advocate for the kids: they didn't grow up with a culture that celebrated the glory of sacrificing self for country as that poem's contemporaries did; that might have been part of the difficulty they had in understanding the irony.
posted by tyrantkitty at 2:03 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
On Dulce et Decorum est, just to play devil's advocate for the kids: they didn't grow up with a culture that celebrated the glory of sacrificing self for country as that poem's contemporaries did; that might have been part of the difficulty they had in understanding the irony.
posted by tyrantkitty at 2:03 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Every class I start with a writing/reflection exercise. This one (i.e., with the rap) I want to posit: We have poetry written today. Listen to these lyrics. What are they saying? The "what are they saying" is the only thing I want the students to attend to, meanwhile hopefully their minds will be opened up to the glories of poetry and they'll all change their majors to Humanities and be penniless for life. Or something.
Okay, I just don't think that mainstream rap lyrics are comparable to the type of poetry you're teaching any more than the lyrics of sung pop music are. There are certainly rap songs that are as complex as the great poetry of Western Literature, but if you're trying to teach "Dulce et Decorum Est" I just don't think "The Message" or something is going to get you there. They are similar but very very different. It's like you're hoping to teach them to appreciate an apple pie by making them drink apple cider.
Can't you just try some simpler poems? "Nothing Gold Can Stay", maybe?
posted by milk white peacock at 2:40 PM on November 1, 2011
Okay, I just don't think that mainstream rap lyrics are comparable to the type of poetry you're teaching any more than the lyrics of sung pop music are. There are certainly rap songs that are as complex as the great poetry of Western Literature, but if you're trying to teach "Dulce et Decorum Est" I just don't think "The Message" or something is going to get you there. They are similar but very very different. It's like you're hoping to teach them to appreciate an apple pie by making them drink apple cider.
Can't you just try some simpler poems? "Nothing Gold Can Stay", maybe?
posted by milk white peacock at 2:40 PM on November 1, 2011
Oh. Oh son.
Get you some Saul Williams. (He's got a new album coming out in a week.5!)
One of the most poetical lyricists in the action today, veteran of the Nuyorican Slam Poetry scene, artist extraordinaire.
'Twice the First Time' - lyrics
'Release pt. 2' from Blackalicious' "Blazing Arrow" - lyrics (jump to Saul's part)
'1987' album version and acapella live version - lyrics
posted by FatherDagon at 2:46 PM on November 1, 2011
Get you some Saul Williams. (He's got a new album coming out in a week.5!)
One of the most poetical lyricists in the action today, veteran of the Nuyorican Slam Poetry scene, artist extraordinaire.
'Twice the First Time' - lyrics
'Release pt. 2' from Blackalicious' "Blazing Arrow" - lyrics (jump to Saul's part)
'1987' album version and acapella live version - lyrics
posted by FatherDagon at 2:46 PM on November 1, 2011
For what it's worth, I have had success in using ideas from Hip Hop Poetry and The Classics in the Classroom with high school English students. The rap examples they use are great and get across many writing conventions like alliteration, onomatopoeia, rhyme scheme and others. Check out the Table of Contents at that link which lists the convention and the songs they used for each one.
posted by NoraCharles at 2:51 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by NoraCharles at 2:51 PM on November 1, 2011
Response by poster: Yeah, "Dulce et Decorum Est" is a bit removed from the students' lives, I guess. I've been going by the anthology and trying to assign the least tricky stuff. This week we're doing Hughes, and I thought that the rap would be a good tie-in 'cause Hughes does so much with describing his urban environment (the kids I'm teaching are mostly Philly kids).
We did do a Gwendolyn Brooks, but that was the first poem assigned. Then we got into John Donne -- soooooo I lost them at some point.
Thanks again for all the suggests, guys -- sweet, most of these are available on youtube w/ lyrics, so the students can read while they listen.
posted by angrycat at 2:53 PM on November 1, 2011
We did do a Gwendolyn Brooks, but that was the first poem assigned. Then we got into John Donne -- soooooo I lost them at some point.
Thanks again for all the suggests, guys -- sweet, most of these are available on youtube w/ lyrics, so the students can read while they listen.
posted by angrycat at 2:53 PM on November 1, 2011
Handlebars by Flobots. (The link is to a video of the lyrics, not the band's video.)
It doesn't have any particularly killing couplets to quote here; its power is cumulative.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 4:42 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
It doesn't have any particularly killing couplets to quote here; its power is cumulative.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 4:42 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
You might, possibly, find it more interesting with the rap lyrics to get the class talking about poetic form rather than the "what is this song about" question you outline earlier. Rap tends to be incredibly rich in precisely those formal techniques that students think are the preserve of stuffy old-fashioned poetry: assonance, alliteration, rhyme, para-rhyme etc. I'm always amazed at how students can listen to endless hours of this music and never consciously think about the formal choices the rapper is making. Try getting them to rewrite lines with different words that say "the same thing" but lose the formal properties. Ask them what difference that makes to what the singer is trying to say. Get them to pay attention to moments where the rhythm changes and ask them what the effect of suddenly switching from duple meter to triple meter or quadruple meter is. Again, try getting them to rewrite those sections while preserving the meaning (as much as possible) and see if they can get some intuitive feel for how that changes the mood of the lines.
If you can get them thinking about the interplay of form and meaning in the poem and approaching the material analytically in that way (without the "oh no, this is FAMOUS LITERATURE and I'm probably getting it ALL WRONG" reflex that gets in the way of reading, say, Donne) then you're winning half the battle.
posted by yoink at 5:20 PM on November 1, 2011
If you can get them thinking about the interplay of form and meaning in the poem and approaching the material analytically in that way (without the "oh no, this is FAMOUS LITERATURE and I'm probably getting it ALL WRONG" reflex that gets in the way of reading, say, Donne) then you're winning half the battle.
posted by yoink at 5:20 PM on November 1, 2011
Here are a few evocative songs by Quasimoto that are fairly clean:
Quasimoto - Come on Feet
Quasimoto - Good Morning Sunshine
posted by eddydamascene at 10:06 PM on November 1, 2011
Quasimoto - Come on Feet
Quasimoto - Good Morning Sunshine
posted by eddydamascene at 10:06 PM on November 1, 2011
Dead Prez "Hip Hop", here is a clean version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jNyr6BJZuI
I took a hip hop poetry class in college and this was one of the first songs that they introduced and broke down. Some years later, it's stuck with me. Especially this part:
"You would rather have a Lexus or justice
A dream or some substance
A Beamer, a necklace or freedom"
I have a lot of thoughts about this topic from a student's perspective... feel free to contact me if you wish!
posted by carpediem at 10:28 PM on November 1, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jNyr6BJZuI
I took a hip hop poetry class in college and this was one of the first songs that they introduced and broke down. Some years later, it's stuck with me. Especially this part:
"You would rather have a Lexus or justice
A dream or some substance
A Beamer, a necklace or freedom"
I have a lot of thoughts about this topic from a student's perspective... feel free to contact me if you wish!
posted by carpediem at 10:28 PM on November 1, 2011
Money Gone, Faith, War Games.
I'm going to suggest that you get some advisors, either from here or amongst people you know, to help with a) what the artists are saying b) the meaning of the words c) the meaning of the lyrics.
It's not always easy to decipher the lyrics. But when it comes to the words, there are loads of words and phrases that you, or even I, might think meaningless - but they're not. And then the overall meaning of the song, if there is one.
You can always memail me, I bet box (commented above) would help, and then there is also rapgenius.com, though even they have errors and/or disagreements.
In short, you wouldn't want people saying "Michael Jackson is saying he is a bad person."
I'm still not rock solid on what you're aiming for the in the end, but good luck and have a great class!
posted by cashman at 9:55 AM on November 2, 2011
I'm going to suggest that you get some advisors, either from here or amongst people you know, to help with a) what the artists are saying b) the meaning of the words c) the meaning of the lyrics.
It's not always easy to decipher the lyrics. But when it comes to the words, there are loads of words and phrases that you, or even I, might think meaningless - but they're not. And then the overall meaning of the song, if there is one.
You can always memail me, I bet box (commented above) would help, and then there is also rapgenius.com, though even they have errors and/or disagreements.
In short, you wouldn't want people saying "Michael Jackson is saying he is a bad person."
I'm still not rock solid on what you're aiming for the in the end, but good luck and have a great class!
posted by cashman at 9:55 AM on November 2, 2011
I totally would. (Also, I did a program something like this for tweens/teens a while back--if you want some songs that illustrate particular devices, hit me up). Besides Rap Genius, you may also find RapMetrics worthwhile.
posted by box at 10:55 AM on November 2, 2011
posted by box at 10:55 AM on November 2, 2011
Also wanted to mention there are tons of clips on YouTube from hbo's def poetry jam. Love! I recommend rives and Sarah Kay.
posted by brilliantine at 7:05 PM on November 3, 2011
posted by brilliantine at 7:05 PM on November 3, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
KRS-ONE's "Homeless" (from Edutainment)
posted by luckynerd at 10:13 AM on November 1, 2011