attracting a mate
June 2, 2005 4:45 PM   Subscribe

attracting a mate

what are some tips on attracting a mate with emphasis on 'going in for the kill'? my situation is that i live in a small town with no 'scene', and for the first time im considering using what i believe is known as 'the system': essentially going up to girls on the street and giving them my pitch. difficulty: my sensibilities could best be described as indie (not to be confused with hipster), so these are the kind of girls id be looking at. basically, cool, smart girls. so: sincere, yes. cliche, no. so has anyone had any success with this?

otherwise, im open to any general tips on sealing the deal. how to get a girl to say yes to a date after talking to her a few times. how to 'talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime'.

here are some pointers of mine on the subject:
- smile, but only if you can do it genuinely. express warmth
- use her name. everyone likes to hear their name.
- end on a good note, and get out of there
- never try to write an essay trying to convince a girl why she should like you. telling her how you feel in person even awkwardly will go over far better than the most eloquent email. it isnt fair to get someone that may not even know you that well involved in a drawn out and delicate correspondance on the subject of you trying to get in their pants (unless you think she is the starry-eyed from recieving a poem you wrote her type)
- talk about them, and act like what they say is the most interesting thing youve ever heard (just to get your foot in the door!)
posted by GleepGlop to Human Relations (93 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
There was some good advice in this AskMe thread.
posted by purephase at 5:02 PM on June 2, 2005


If she's quite attractive, make great eye contact, smile, and don't compliment her more than once. (Attractive girls know they're attractive. So you need to stand out from other guys and say things she hasn't already heard.) Be cocky and funny. Make her remember your name by doing crazy stuff. (An example: She asks you what you do for a living: "Oh, I'm a demolitions expert")

And if you feel you express yourself better in writing than on the phone, ask for her e-mail instead of her phone number. Don't ASK for directly for her e-mail address. You don't have to. Instead, "do you have e-mail?" Of course, she says yes. "Good. Write it down for me."

Most these tips are from a dating guru I've been listening to, David DeAngelo, who has some amazing suggestions. (They are geared toward a big-city environment where the numbers are on your side so you can afford to be a prick. But I think they'll work in smaller communities too. For my sake, I hope so.) I'm not fond of his website, doubleyourdating.com, because his background is in marketing so he runs it almost like a viagra spam ad. Nonetheless, his audio series which I *found* on the Internet is excellent.
posted by Happydaz at 5:02 PM on June 2, 2005


Just pretend to be interested in whatever they are talking about. and keep buying them drinks.
posted by jonmc at 5:08 PM on June 2, 2005


Yeah, pretending to be interested in people is a really good way to find someone you want to be with. Getting them drunk so they don't know what they're doing is also the *best* way to determine whether or not another person likes you.
posted by interrobang at 5:18 PM on June 2, 2005


I'd say be yourself, not a demolitions expert. If you want to sleep with her, be anything you like that you think might work. If you want her to get to know you, like you, then try and be yourself because it works out better in the long run.

There are a few things you can do to make yourself better. Yes, smile. Be open and attentive, and listen. Think about what she talks about and tells you and use it constructively. When you ask her on a date make it interesting, but not way out and quirky. Be as confident as you possibly can and at no times revert to "So I was kinda, sorta, wondering if you'd - I mean if you have nothing better to do - come out with me sometime." Make a date and tell her to be there or not in a friendly manner. If she says no then she says no, but she might say yes.
posted by fire&wings at 5:21 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


re: Happydaz.

I am a smart indie type girl. If a guy approached me with a "cocky" attitude he'd picked up from a "dating guru", I would run, far and swiftly. Just sayin'.
posted by ITheCosmos at 5:21 PM on June 2, 2005


Yeah, pretending to be interested in people is a really good way to find someone you want to be with.

Mock all you want, I've seen it work. Last night, in my local bar, a co-worker of mine came in and listened psuedo-attentively while the barmaid talked about her "modeling" and she showed him her portfolio of lingerie shots, and I happen to know he's doing her and a few others.

Of course when we went out for a smoke, he asked "do you party?" and when I said "party?" he started making snorting noises, so he's not exactly a moral examplar, but he does alright with the ladies, but he also is a good-looking guy with a good job.
posted by jonmc at 5:29 PM on June 2, 2005


Make her remember your name by doing crazy stuff. (An example: She asks you what you do for a living: "Oh, I'm a demolitions expert")

Lame. Don't be lame. You have to better than the small town you're in. What would James Bond do if he were in your small town? Do you think he'd go up to a girl and declare himself a demolition expert? Fuck no, that's not his style. A "I'd rather be snorting cocaine off a hooker's ass" attitude is what is needed for the off the street approach. My meaning is this, you have a million better things to do but you'd like to include her in the night of whimsy.
posted by geoff. at 5:33 PM on June 2, 2005


Of course when we went out for a smoke, he asked "do you party?" and when I said "party?" he started making snorting noises, so he's not exactly a moral examplar, but he does alright with the ladies, but he also is a good-looking guy with a good job.

Oh wow, theory and in practice. See he's actually snorting cocaine off stripper's asses!
posted by geoff. at 5:34 PM on June 2, 2005



Mock all you want, I've seen it work.


I'm not mocking. It sounds like this guy wants a girlfriend, not a random fuck. Maybe I'm wrong.
posted by interrobang at 5:35 PM on June 2, 2005


The "in for the kill" part and the emphasis on opening lines makes me think the opposite. I could be wrong, too.
posted by jonmc at 5:39 PM on June 2, 2005


Maybe it's the good-lookingness and the good job that wows the ladies, and the "pretending to listen" doesn't score any extra points beyond what you pony up to the bar with.
posted by 23skidoo at 5:40 PM on June 2, 2005


interrobang: either or. yeah im thinking 'james bond' for the street scene. you have to be smooth, not sheepish. if youre confident it wont seem so crazy that youre approaching this girl on the street which sadly is an unusual occurence. the trouble im having is with exactly what to say. maybe that david deangelo can give me some tips. or maybe i should read some iceberg slim. ive always wanted a mentor to teach me the ways of women.
posted by GleepGlop at 5:41 PM on June 2, 2005


or maybe i should read some iceberg slim.

Are you trying to date these women or turn them out?
posted by jonmc at 5:43 PM on June 2, 2005


After much research (being a male roommate of 3, smart, funny, indie-type girls and listening intently about their dealings with guys), I have come to the following conclusions:
  • Appearing nervous is the kiss of death. 'Cocky' is infinitely better than 'breakable'.
  • Looks do matter. Not more than personality, but neither is it a non-issue. Do the best you can.
  • It's imporatant to communicate that you are really passionate about *something*... it could be bird watching or computer programming.
YMMV. Heck, MMMV. I'm single.
posted by 4easypayments at 5:43 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


Two words: Street Magic.
posted by odinsdream at 5:47 PM on June 2, 2005


All kidding aside, chicks are not that complicated. The law of averages is on your side. Just keep showing up and making yourself available. Everytime I've succeded with a woman, it's been a total fluke, no common denominator between the scenarios. No matter who you are or what you like, some woman somwhere will dig your act. Just keep stepping up to the plate.
posted by jonmc at 5:51 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


Have a dog. Everyone loves dogs.
posted by dagnyscott at 5:53 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


haha, street magic, good one. any other schticks?
posted by GleepGlop at 5:58 PM on June 2, 2005


You need to sing and play the guitar/piano.
posted by ludwig_van at 6:01 PM on June 2, 2005


Cocky only works if you have a sense of humor and can laugh at yourself, otherwise it comes off as "asshole". If someone told me to write down my email as Happydaz suggests, I would tell them to fuck off (assuming I didn't try to knock his teeth out). But if he followed it up with a funny self-deprecating comment I would probably give it to him.

On preview, dagnyscott has a good point. Puppy!
posted by cali at 6:02 PM on June 2, 2005


But if he followed it up with a funny self-deprecating comment I would probably give it to him.

like this:

"Hey baby, wanna hook up with a nice guy?"
"No."
"Then, how 'bout me, I'm a jerk."
posted by jonmc at 6:07 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


Just pretend to be interested in whatever they are talking about. and keep buying them drinks.
posted by jonmc at 5:08 PM PST on June 2


Everytime I've succeded with a woman, it's been a total fluke
posted by jonmc at 5:51 PM PST on June 2


Yeah, shocking, I know.

On topic: be funny and charming, GleepGlop. That's about it. That DeAngelo shit is for the birds.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:08 PM on June 2, 2005


ah, optimus, since your hatemail has been ineffective, you've turned to direct attacks. So sad.
posted by jonmc at 6:16 PM on June 2, 2005


i dont kno-ow, i listened to an audio sample of 'approaching on the street' and i felt like i could have been listening to a special 'picking up' episode of this american life!
posted by GleepGlop at 6:17 PM on June 2, 2005


There is no one magic way to be that'll kill with the ladies, because different folks respond to different things. Will being funny and charming work with some ladies? Yes. Will being cocky and standoffish work? Yes. Pick one thing and do it enough and it'll work some of the time. But being a SuperMack isn't about having one schtick and refusing to veer from it, it's about quickly picking up on what things the person you're talking with finds attractive, and then doing those things that will make you seem more interesting to that person.
posted by 23skidoo at 6:22 PM on June 2, 2005


Oh, and being goodlooking and/or having a good job.
posted by 23skidoo at 6:23 PM on June 2, 2005


yeah, if you're homely and poor, it's purely random chance, trust me.
posted by jonmc at 6:24 PM on June 2, 2005


I would much rather go out with a guy that I seemed to have something in common with than some guy that sidled up to me at the bar and tried to be funny / witty / cocky before asking for my number / email.

If it were me, what would work would be someone striking up an honest conversation with me in a pleasant manner without being fake. Hang out somewhere you're likely to run into "indie chicks" and strike up a conversation with one. For example, see me ordering coffee? Say "Oh, that's funny. I was going to order that too" (but only if you really were). See me browsing books at the bookstore? Say "Oh, if you like that author, you might like this one too". Etc. In other words, BE YOURSELF. And bonus points for not obviously trying to get in my pants.
posted by geeky at 6:31 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


Say "Oh, that's funny. I was going to order that too" (but only if you really were). See me browsing books at the bookstore? Say "Oh, if you like that author, you might like this one too". Etc. In other words, BE YOURSELF.

How can you tell if I really was going to order that, or if I really read all those books (instead of just read about them)? How can you tell if I'm being myself, or just pretending to "be myself"? How can you tell that my pretending that I'm not only interested in getting in your pants isn't a ploy to get into your pants?
posted by 23skidoo at 6:42 PM on June 2, 2005


Adding on to the "bonus points for not obviously trying to get in my pants," in my limited experience, one thing that helps get better at the random pickup is to just feel more comfortable talking to strangers of all types - male, female, cute, or otherwise - on the street. Getting used to making a connection with people of all different types will be good practice (and it's kind of a nice thing to meet people, cause hey, a lot of times, they are pretty interesting) and it will also take off some of the "I am SO gonna pick you up right now" vibe you might give off if you only approach those "special" indie ladies.

The culture of where you live obviously will affect how successful this is, but in general, being a friendly, open person can start you off on the right foot.
posted by buddha9090 at 6:49 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


Do you live in Seattle? If so, call me.
posted by tristeza at 7:19 PM on June 2, 2005


I think buddha9090 hits it right on...

Try not to ever pretend to care...be sincere.
Talk to as many people as possible.
posted by schyler523 at 7:29 PM on June 2, 2005


Actually, I think a lot of the advice you got in your previous similar thread would apply here as well.
And re: games and "dating gurus," you might read this thread about The Rules and similar books.

I have very strong feelings about this, but that's because it's always worked for me: be yourself. Do things you like to do and you will find people that also like to do what you like to do. This is harder in small towns; maybe you can start up a group for what you're interested in? Being that kind of girl, I only know about starting book clubs or Stitch&Bitches, but if you have hobbies, think of some way to make a group for it, even if it's just meet people to walk dogs (or just walk, sans dogs) around the park at about 5:30 when people get off work.

I know you're asking about what to do after you meet them, but the talking is based on connecting, and the connecting is easier if you have something in common. So put yourself in, or create, a situation in which you will meet people with whom you have something in common.

You also have to not worry about girls saying no. I haven't figured out how to do that one yet. Let me know if you do.

Also, and please don't take this personally, this indie geek girl would turn around and walk -- no, actually, run -- away if you used phrases like "attracting a mate" and "going in for the kill." There is some serious misogyny and power inequity in those sentences. That is not hot.
posted by librarina at 7:30 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


There is some serious misogyny and power inequity in those sentences.

Actually, women have the ultimate power that all men fear: the power to say no. It's the men who ignore that who are the true misogynists.
posted by jonmc at 7:36 PM on June 2, 2005 [2 favorites]


There is some serious misogyny and power inequity in those sentences.

Of course, there's no power inequity at all in the fact that men feel the need to use gimcrackery and "lines" in order to get a date. You'll notice it's never women posting these "how can I meet somebody" questions.

</bitter>
posted by IshmaelGraves at 7:38 PM on June 2, 2005


well, im a fan of nature documentaries, thats why i used the clinical 'attracting a mate' term. going in for the kill, i realize is macho, but also i felt it was somewhat nature oriented, and appropriate for the 'stalking of prey' on the street scenario. see, i cant help it. anyway, i dont like that misogyny stuff either.
as for girls saying no, i dont feel worried about that because the fact is you really probably wont ever see them again. and if you do you shouldnt be worried about it, because the mating game is the most natural thing in the world. its nothing to be embarassed about. if someone laughs at you its their problem, not yours. the anxiety i would feel personally is about pulling it off successfully, where if i didnt, i would be like 'youre just no good, gleep, stupid stupid stupid!'
posted by GleepGlop at 7:45 PM on June 2, 2005


IshmaelGraves writes "Of course, there's no power inequity at all in the fact that men feel the need to use gimcrackery and 'lines' in order to get a date. You'll notice it's never women posting these 'how can I meet somebody' questions."

Oh, for sure! I'm not going to argue with that at all. And I don't like that either. You'll notice I'm encouraging him not to play games.
(I'm not the "men are always wrong" type of "feminist" -- I don't even consider those people to be participating in the same philosophy that I am. Feminism = gender equality with as little sex-based power differential as possible.)
I just don't think the kind of girl it sounds like he's looking for is going to respond very well to the terminology he's using.

Also, demonstrably false: a woman asks a "how do I meet someone" question.
posted by librarina at 7:46 PM on June 2, 2005


That DeAngelo audio is pure horseshit and poison to civility and civilization.
posted by Mo Nickels at 7:48 PM on June 2, 2005


You'll notice it's never women posting these "how can I meet somebody" questions.

Obviously you've never seen a women's magazine at the grocery store checkout line.
posted by fatbobsmith at 7:52 PM on June 2, 2005


If you're going to be going up to people on the street, fix your posture :-)
posted by -harlequin- at 8:03 PM on June 2, 2005


Also, demonstrably false: a woman asks a "how do I meet someone" question.

I stand corrected. Us INTPs are, however, a special case, unlucky in life and love.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 8:06 PM on June 2, 2005


really, geeky and all those who say just be yourself are dead on. the good posture can't hurt.
posted by horseblind at 8:07 PM on June 2, 2005


You'll notice it's never women posting these "how can I meet somebody" questions.

Right. Because we're all contentedly in relationships at any given moment, and lording it over the lot of you single fellas! And the second we get out of a relationship, another one just comes along! You men -- you're exactly like buses. Silly, adorable buses! [/sarcasm]
posted by scody at 8:12 PM on June 2, 2005


yowzas, how did you know i had postural kyphosis? but, you know, im working out. drinking milk.
posted by GleepGlop at 8:18 PM on June 2, 2005


-- you're exactly like buses. Silly, adorable buses!

*checks rearview, sees empty bus*
*checks watch to see if still running on schedule*
posted by schyler523 at 8:21 PM on June 2, 2005


A friend once told me about his wingman's line:

"Hey girl, you be fuckin'?"

Apparently he had this gangster thing going on that worked for him in the right situations. I realize this is of no help, but the point is, it was sort of tailored to this guy and his personality, and it could never work for most people. You have to find the right thing that works for you and your particular strengths.
posted by brheavy at 8:21 PM on June 2, 2005


im also toying with the idea of taking out an ad in the local paper describing myself and saying that ive moved to this crazy town recently and i dont know anyone. i think id have a good shot of getting results, but would also be 'the talk' of the town, which im not so keen on.
posted by GleepGlop at 8:27 PM on June 2, 2005


Because we're all contentedly in relationships at any given moment

Sometimes, and sometimes you're miserable in relationships, which beats the fuck out of being miserable by one's self.

and lording it over the lot of you single fellas! And the second we get out of a relationship, another one just comes along!

I realize you're attempting to be facetious. However, since most of my female friends have not been single for a period of time longer than a few months since they started dating, yes, you're basically correct.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 8:35 PM on June 2, 2005


I'm like a bus, baby.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 8:36 PM on June 2, 2005


"yowzas, how did you know i had postural kyphosis?"

Heh, I didn't, I was just running on the observation that if you look around you, almost no-one has good posture, so it's a good place to get a head start over the crowd, since it's something that helps make a good first impression and not many other people are doing it :-)

If it's something you're already working at, and you're not doing this already, you'll get the most out of your efforts if you talk to someone who knows a lot about achieving good posture, be they medical background, or a dance instructor. But since the subject is looking your best, the later might be better :-)
posted by -harlequin- at 8:39 PM on June 2, 2005


My advice is that confidence kicks cocky, good looking, great job, and cool car's ass. Even if you combine them. Like yourself, know yourself, be yourself.

Have a dog. Everyone loves dogs.

Just make sure he doesn't shit out a condom while you're talking to her. :(
posted by dobbs at 8:39 PM on June 2, 2005


Just make sure he doesn't shit out a condom while you're talking to her. :(

uhh... what?!?!
posted by Quartermass at 8:40 PM on June 2, 2005


Regarding the ad in the paper idea, I've decided that painful though it is when failing to meet people in a strange new town, I prefer to be the one who decides who I approach. I wouldn't like saying in an ad that I'm looking for friends (or dates), and then when people respond who I'm totally not interested in, telling them I'm not interested... that's harsh, and they may not take it lightly. It sucks to not know people, but I think it's definitely better to stay the person deciding who you approach.

I'd suggest looking for a solid excuse/proposal for the person on the street. Eg, you're going to a fun (not too date-like) activity that is better with a second person, but you don't know anyone, and thought you'd ask if the person is interested. An example, a local for-profit dance studio had "bring a friend" evenings, where you get a free class if you bring someone new to the studio. The purpose, of course, is so they can try to turn that person into a new customer, but if you were tell the person on the street that there was this thing tonight, you needed a friend but didn't know anyone, and said they might face a sales pitch but it would be fun, then regardless of whether they want to go, you've already had half a conversation with them, which is a good start, and if they do decide to go, that's even better :)
posted by -harlequin- at 8:54 PM on June 2, 2005


A friend once told me about his wingman's line:

"Hey girl, you be fuckin'?"


Ah, a new variant on the Feynman method. Love it.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:27 PM on June 2, 2005


Rather than pretending you're someone interesting who does cool stuff, try actually being interesting, and actually doing cool stuff.
posted by signal at 9:27 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


IshmaelGraves writes "Sometimes, and sometimes you're miserable in relationships, which beats the fuck out of being miserable by one's self."

You really think so? I far, far prefer to be miserable alone (alone with friends, I mean) than miserable in a relationship. Miserable in a relationship means that two people are miserable. Plus, I didn't have happy relationships until I became able to be happily alone. I think that is very important and easily overlooked.
posted by librarina at 9:42 PM on June 2, 2005


I realize you're attempting to be facetious. However, since most of my female friends have not been single for a period of time longer than a few months since they started dating, yes, you're basically correct.

Well, I'm one of those smart, (allegedly) attractive, funny indie girls who's supposedly so in demand, and I've been single for two years. I live in the second largest city in America, and I can count on one hand the number of straight, single guys roughly in my age cohort that I know, and I'm including guys I know in other time zones. On the other hand, I could fill a phone book with the number of single women I know. So obviously, YMMV.

...sometimes you're miserable in relationships, which beats the fuck out of being miserable by one's self.

Or: you could try being happy being single. Radical, I know, but it's working for me.

on preview: librarina is absolutely spot-on. Well, spot-on if you're into your own mental well-being as well as the idea of being in a healthy relationship. If simply having any relationship is the objective, however, then by all means keep using "am I more or less miserable?" as your yardstick.
posted by scody at 9:47 PM on June 2, 2005


Also, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, women account for 54% of unmarried and single adults in this country. Even accounting for the fact that women make up a larger percentage of the population, that doesn't exactly suggest that (your female friends' experiences notwithstanding) we're somehow disproportionately paired off.
posted by scody at 10:06 PM on June 2, 2005


A lot of guys use what is sometimes called "the neg," which is giving some sort of half-assed insult by way of a greeting (like "you'd look so much prettier if you'd smile") This causes a lot of women to get defensive and try to prove how nice, pretty, smart they are. They talk to the boy and he gets his foot in the door. This works really well with women who have low self-esteem. Some of the advice in this thread goes in that direction.

DO NOT DO THIS. Not only does it make you an asshole, but smart women are likely to be put-off. Honestly, if you want indie girls, just be nice, keep a reserve of amusing stories, know your music, and dress yourself decently. Ask her questions about herself. You'll be head-and-shoulders above the rest.
posted by mai at 10:24 PM on June 2, 2005


Damn. If scody can't get a date then I am doomed.
posted by cali at 10:24 PM on June 2, 2005


My only advice is to second what dobbs said about self-confidence trumping everything else and also to add that you should ignore all the advice in here given to you by women.

Let me explain the latter suggestion: I know plenty of women (yes, both dominant and submissive) who explain very patiently the type of guy that would score with them and then go out with an entirely different type of guy. Women don't like to admit that they are attracted to self-confident jerks but, let me tell you, women are attracted to self-confident jerks. I should know - I am one of them and right now i am having more women-problems than I can handle...

By "being a jerk" i don't mean "Be insulting." I mean that women, especially beautiful women, are used to having power over men and the only way to "get to them" is to bring the relationship to a more equitable level, usually by disarming them: Ignore them. Don't flatter them or you are doomed. Everybody notices them so they will notice the one guy in the room who doesn't. Act casually and in control. Think and act with the following feeling in your mind: "I enjoy talking to you. It's kind of fun. But, I have better and cooler things I could be doing right now"

As for the not-so-beautiful girl, much of the same applies. She isn't used to being in control but she is also used to guys who just want to get in her pants and nothing else. You still have to be that slightly unattainable guy by barely giving her the time of day at first and then allowing her to feel she has somehow won you over. Keep this in mind too: "People will most often think about you as the the person you were when you first met or when they first saw you and carry that impression forward."

As you might expect, this stuff is hard to put into writing and nothing beats experience. But, I hope that helps even a little bit.
posted by Ariosto at 10:45 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


you should ignore all the advice in here given to you by women.

Because clearly women have nothing to do with the subject of this post.
posted by stet at 11:02 PM on June 2, 2005


Ariosto's advice is very, very good if you would like to fuck a selection of women who A) you don't really care about very much, and B) who won't really care very much about you. If you would like to cultivate the life of an emotional adolescent with the shallowest sense of self and others and sleep with women of a similar mental mindset in the process, I urge you to follow his truly stellar advice to the letter.

It means the rest of us -- we adult women possessed of intellectual, emotional, and cultural intelligence, many of whom have already experienced deep and fulfilling relationships with other intellectually, emotionally, and culturally intelligent adult men -- won't even have to give you the time of day. You'll filter yourselves right out of the running, and make it that much easier for us to spot the quality men when they actually do come along. And for that, we will be eternally grateful.
posted by scody at 11:03 PM on June 2, 2005 [1 favorite]


I think the way it works is like this: be a jerk if all you want is a shag.

Unlike Ariosto, I don't presume to know the motivation of all women (hey, and I am one! I wonder how he manages it...) but I do think that when we say yes to men who are being a jerk, we are going along for the ride, having a bit of fun. When we say yes to men who make us laugh, or who tell us a bit about themselves, we are actually making a connection with another human being. I really despise the conflict model of relationships between the sexes - it doesn't have to be this way. Even if you do do the jerk bit, what's going to happen when you've known each other a while? If this is The One, are you going to have suddenly and strangely change personality after the first few dates?

Oh, and the name thing - is that why some people do this? I don't like it - particularly if I've just met you.

On preview - scody is a very clever lady who you should listen to.
posted by calico at 11:12 PM on June 2, 2005


Ariosoto is misogyny and objectification in action. Women aren't people, they are Something Different that you will never understand, and what's more, we ourselves will never understand ourselves! We are lying to ourselves and, more importantly, to you, at all times!

Treat women like people -- fallible, confused, sad, happy, hopeful people -- and you will get the same back.

After taking a timeout before commenting, I return to find out that scody, who seems to be my more articulate intellectual twin, has said it better, but oh well, I'm posting anyway.
posted by librarina at 11:15 PM on June 2, 2005


On preview: Hah! Oh, well. this is what I wrote:

I'm not saying you're wrong Ariosto, for what you want, but I think that this method would totally bomb with perhaps precisely the sort of woman/person our poster is probably interested in. I've always been more attracted to people who were interested in me, and never had a hopeless crush on somebody who wasn't also drawn to me. Maybe there were lots of guys playing the hard-to-get, to-cool-for-school routine with me, but I wouldn't know because they definitely wouldn't have toggled my attraction awareness switch.
posted by taz at 11:20 PM on June 2, 2005


If you just want a fuck, perhaps you should consider this thread.
posted by almost incandescent white tuxedos at 11:34 PM on June 2, 2005


Anyways, to continue, the most important thing is to get some sort of emotional reaction, as I have done above. Any emotional reaction is better than none. You'll notice that it is only women who objected to my post. Too-cool-for-school is fine as long as you move on from there. As I said above, its about that first impression. Everything is decided at that moment.

Then the next step is to charm them. Tell them a funny story about something that happened to you. Make them laugh. Then, listen attentively to them and, again as I've said, make them feel they have somehow won you over. We all have funny stories to tell about our lives but it is self-confidence that allows you to feel that these stories are worth the telling. And in so doing, you draw out their stories which they are dying to tell and share, most strongly with someone they feel is worthwhile. We all want an audience and we all want to be understood, this is true. But it is more rewarding if it is an audience we have had to win over for ourselves. This is why you only shrug when your mother tells you look beautiful in that dress, but absolutely melt when it is a boy who you never thought would even give you the time of day.

Ok. I am done. I apologize if I have somehow derailed this thread. I did not mean to arouse the ire of scody. I was simply trying to obey the codes of Ask Metafilter and providing an answer from my own experience which has worked for me but, I admit, may not be appropriate for GleepGlop. Again, I apologize.
posted by Ariosto at 12:09 AM on June 3, 2005 [1 favorite]


You'll notice that it is only women who objected to my post.

Ummm. Well, "object" is maybe not the right word. However, it would appear that your relations with women are based on an "act". I can't help but think that if you keep it up, eventually you're going to break and be very lost. At least if you actually value connecting with other people.

I don't want to further derail the thread but your post makes me think that you're the modern equivelant of Jonathan Fuerst. And, though we last seem him in his late thirties/early forties, I don't think it requires much imagination to know how his life ended: alone and unloved.

What I find strange sad is that your post doesn't seem to acknowledge that you're playing with women in total--meaning I don't get the impression you relate to them on any other level than the one expressed (I'm sorry if that's not the case and you've simply shown one side of your relationship to them)... However, what's missing is the sense that you realize that were they to treat you this way it would not be appreciated and would seriously inhibit your own ability to relate to others and therefore live your life fully.
posted by dobbs at 12:41 AM on June 3, 2005


Rather than pretending you're someone interesting who does cool stuff, try actually being interesting, and actually doing cool stuff.

That's some valuable advice IMO. You are new to town, yes? Have some patience. Take time to make some friends. Join a club or two. Find a group with interests such as yours and try new things. With due diligence, you WILL meet someone with whom you can have a meaningful experience. Be yourself, and the right shit will happen. Oh, and time spent on the Internet is time spent not achieving your goal.

OTOH, do you want lots of awkward dates with women with whom you have nothing in common, want to keep plucking the same bruised, low-hanging fruit? Then memorize the handy tips in this thread, cop some false confidence and hit the streets. Bonus points if you're a member of the lower or middle class and can appear prosperous.
posted by DuoJet at 12:56 AM on June 3, 2005 [1 favorite]


I think it is entirely possible that being a jerk to women may be a successful dating strategy. I also don't think that it will necessarily lead to loneliness and alienation. Perhaps it is the very best way to meet women. Personally, however, I just don't think it's worth it. It's just a really crappy way to act toward other people, and, frankly, it seems like too much work. Be youself. Not to meet the ladies, or to better manipulate people, or any of that stuff; be yourself because that is the best way to be. There are many millions of smart, funny, beautiful women out there. Pretending to be an asshole isn't necessary.
posted by Doug at 1:10 AM on June 3, 2005


calico: I'm not sure which was the name thing you're talking about, but I try to use people's names a lot when I first meet them because I'm more likely to remember the name that way.
posted by grouse at 1:23 AM on June 3, 2005


Yeah, the jerk thing works, but at the most it should be used as the ice breaker that gets things started and then immediately discarded in favour of genuine interaction. Even then, it's kinda icky. The problem of course, the really really annoying part, is that, icky as it is, the damn thing still works.

So let's rephrase it to sweep some of the icky under the mat: your task is simply to avoid telling the lady (be it by body language, action, or words) the idiotic falsehood that she may be out of your league. You avoid telling her this because she doesn't know you yet so she will take your word for it, and move on, yet lack of confidence on your part will broadcast the lie and decieve her. Which is especially silly if you are a good catch, but simply don't have confidence in yourself. So you give her the false impression that she should do better, screwing both of you over. :-)
It comes back to confidence... again...
:)
posted by -harlequin- at 1:39 AM on June 3, 2005 [1 favorite]


This thread shows that there are different shticks for different folk with varying outcomes and depths of sincerity and quality. [But I'd be leaning closer to scody than Ariosto, personally]
You mention approaching women on streets and I can't help but think that that is not only a place where people are at their most publically protective and private but that everything will be riding on your approach line (oh, and posture). That method has got to have some damn high odds for success. It may get just a tad demoralizing.
I'm with those that suggest joining (or starting) a group where indie girls hang out (there may be no 'scene' but they must hang somewhere). Or joining a bunch and maybe checking around for relationship ads online/newspapers from girls in your town. Even put up an advert yourself.
All of these things up your chances because they increase your exposure to the group of interest. But: be yourself and don't lie/act/mislead -- particularly not if you want something of quality that will last past a single grope and tickle session.
posted by peacay at 1:43 AM on June 3, 2005


Doug:
(slight derail) The problem with a boycott on principle of the jerk/confidence thing, is that it seems there are some women for which this is the only behaviour they will open the door to. It's well and good to say there are plenty of fish in the sea, or that those women clearly haven't matured yet so you're better off without them, but if you already have a crush on a specific person, then all that stuff is irrelevant.
No real point to make, jus' saying :)
posted by -harlequin- at 1:48 AM on June 3, 2005 [1 favorite]


Doug:
(slight derail) The problem with a boycott on principle of the jerk/confidence thing, is that it seems there are some women for which this is the only behaviour they will open the door to. It's well and good to say there are plenty of fish in the sea, or that those women clearly haven't matured yet so you're better off without them, but if you already have the beginnings of a crush on someone (or worse - that's your "type"), then all that stuff becomes irrelevant.
No real point to make, jus' saying :)
posted by -harlequin- at 1:53 AM on June 3, 2005


I think there may also be some confusion in terms: being a jerk and having confidence are not the same thing, and seem to me to rarely coincide. Bravado and bluster in combination with jerkstate is much more common.
posted by taz at 1:56 AM on June 3, 2005


The only way you will ever find somebody that makes you happy is by being yourself. Can you imagine spending your whole life pretending to be Ariosto (or anyone else for that matter)?

A friend once told me about his wingman's line:

"Hey girl, you be fuckin'?"


Remind me to buy my daughter who be bornin' in September a taser.



BTW: what exactly is an indie girl? All I know is that they are in demand and different than a hipster girl. Which leads to the question: just what is a hipster girl? Are there any other flavors that I should be aware of?
posted by sic at 3:14 AM on June 3, 2005 [1 favorite]


One definition.
posted by taz at 3:23 AM on June 3, 2005


From the definition:

If you're bringing her over for a date, you are playing a character in her movie. If you create a setting, props, and a soundtrack that are good enough to avoid the cutting-room floor, she's yours.

I guess Ariosto was right then.



Taz, tell me Ariosto wasn't right...!
posted by sic at 3:33 AM on June 3, 2005


Well, the definition is obviously silly and simplistic, but just for argument's sake, let's just assume that that line is at least to some degree on-target. Then we have to ask what is the character you are playing? One who is "ignoring her" and acting like he has much better things to do? Or one who might, say, impress her by turning her onto an amazing book she's never read before, etc., etc.

The idea of you (the date) being "a character in her movie" strikes me more as that sort of background narration thing that goes on in some people's minds, as though they are writing (as in a journal or for a script) the events of their lives... something a writer might do, for example, and not so much the idea of "playing a role". Once you enter their lives, you are part of the story, and the story is their experience.
posted by taz at 3:55 AM on June 3, 2005


Yes, I like that interpretation.

Whatever happened to the hipster girl? I noticed she isn't part of the menagerie. Are people just tired of saying the word hipster?
posted by sic at 8:39 AM on June 3, 2005


The more I read this thread the more I start to think of "attracting a mate" like selling a product. The fundamentals of the product (you) are important in selling it, but marketing and sales can also be useful in creating demand.

Some consumers will be offended or turned off by obnoxious sales and marketing techniques. For others, it will be the only way to get through to them. Most consumers will insist that they make their eventual decisions based on the fundamentals. (After all, who wants to feel like they are being manipulated by salespeople and marketroids?) But sometimes the sale never would have happened at all without help from sales and marketing.
posted by grouse at 8:42 AM on June 3, 2005


i think we may have the wrong idea of this jerk thing. if a girl keeps running back to a guy that has an 'abusive' personality, thats messed up. i think jerk may be the wrong word for what ariosto is describing. personally, ive had many girls fall into my lap when im just not caring. i think that may be more in line with this particular 'jerk' scenario. and then when you notice that not caring has actually gotten a girls attention, you might aswell run with it. or even try to repeat the results another time. i think its more passively 'jerk' than a more active jerk in an abusive sense. its kind of in line with my 'thegamesweplay' tag. anyway, more later
posted by GleepGlop at 8:52 AM on June 3, 2005


The one thing that nobody has addressed here is that GleepGlop is in a small town. There are lots of kinds and sizes of small towns, and the particular characteristics of yours will make a big difference in your approach. Is it rural, suburban, surrounded by farms, near a city, a factory town, a college town? Is small 2,000 people or 10,000 people or 50,000 people?

In a suburban town of 50,000 people, the cultural values surrounding dating are going to be a lot different than in an isolated farming or factory town of 5,000.

If you're looking for casual sex in a farm town with 5,000 people, your best bet is to move. First off, there aren't all that many women. Second of all, the ones you find will talk to each other, and you'll develop a relationship very quickly. Third, and I recognize this is a gross generalization, cultural attitudes about casual sex tend to be more conservative in smaller towns.

If you're looking for a relationship in a really small town, however, you may be at an advantage. Once you've been there for a few months, women around town are going to start recognizing you. They've seen you at the grocery store, they've seen you getting gas or renting videos or walking down the street. In small towns, people tend to be more open to getting to know other locals. Even if you've never spoken before, when you do go up to the cool, smart indie girl she's more likely to think of you as vaguely familiar and give you a chance.

If you're introducing yourself to women you don't know on the street, and you haven't been there that long and they don't know who you are, be prepared to strike out at least four to 10 times for every successful introduction.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 8:56 AM on June 3, 2005


The one thing that nobody has addressed here is that GleepGlop is in a small town. There are lots of kinds and sizes of small towns, and the particular characteristics of yours will make a big difference in your approach. Is it rural, suburban, surrounded by farms, near a city, a factory town, a college town? Is small 2,000 people or 10,000 people or 50,000 people?

In a suburban town of 50,000 people, the cultural values surrounding dating are going to be a lot different than in an isolated farming or factory town of 5,000.

If you're looking for casual sex in a farm town with 5,000 people, your best bet is to move. First off, there aren't all that many women. Second of all, the ones you find will talk to each other, and you'll develop a reputation very quickly. Third, and I recognize this is a gross generalization, cultural attitudes about casual sex tend to be more conservative in smaller towns.

If you're looking for a relationship in a really small town, however, you may be at an advantage. Once you've been there for a few months, women around town are going to start recognizing you. They've seen you at the grocery store, they've seen you getting gas or renting videos or walking down the street. In small towns, people tend to be more open to getting to know other locals. Even if you've never spoken before, when you do go up to the cool, smart indie girl she's more likely to think of you as vaguely familiar and give you a chance. First you have to find her, though. There may be an indie-girl shortage in some really small towns.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 9:12 AM on June 3, 2005


heres some more info / recap: i think that success in human relations can be learned like a skill or an art like anything else. im interested in learning these skills for both casual encounters and developing relationships.
i mentioned the indie thing because i realize that a lot of pickup advice is kind of of the maxim magazine brand, and wouldnt work for those girls. the difference between hipster and indie for me is kind of the difference between store bought and something more authentic / original. i might ask a hipster girl 'want to go to this rock show / poetry reading?'. i might ask an indie girl 'want to go and feed ducks?'.
the fact is, with casual encounters you are kind of using eachother. so people are going to take issue with some of the tactics being discussed. im not really interested in what is mean or nice or right or wrong, i just want a whole breadth of ideas on the subject of the mating game. thats why i highlighted mai's answer.
im in my early 20's. there is almost nobody my age in this town because once people graduate highschool they move away to post secondary something or other. there seem to be some people back for the summer. this is the kind of town where if you didnt grow up here, a young adult is going to have a really hard time. everyone just hangs out in eachothers basements kind of thing. theres nobody around. thats why im thinking of approaching people. it really is my only shot. i -never- see these people again. believe me, i go out walking a lot.
posted by GleepGlop at 9:40 AM on June 3, 2005


GleepGlop writes "i think we may have the wrong idea of this jerk thing. if a girl keeps running back to a guy that has an 'abusive' personality, thats messed up. i think jerk may be the wrong word for what ariosto is describing. personally, ive had many girls fall into my lap when im just not caring."

That is what I, at least, have been trying to say -- you have to be happy being alone first. This can look like "not caring," I guess, but what it means is that you don't need a relationship. You can be content with what you do, have, and are, and that is the confidence that is attractive.

On preview, I think feeding the ducks is an awesome idea.
posted by librarina at 9:49 AM on June 3, 2005


i think you should use peoples names because its really a small thing that you can do to show that you have an interest in the person and the person isnt just some dude or some chick to you. conversely, if someone uses your name its more likely that they care about you. its a self-fulfilling prophecy, or something.
posted by GleepGlop at 10:11 AM on June 3, 2005


I know it's late in the thread, but here are some suggestions. I'm in my mid 30s, and have no problem meeting and asking out women.

The most important thing: Be Confident, this more than anything else in your personality/looks will attract women. Confident+Not Nice=Jerk, Confident+Nice=Charismatic. Women want a confident man, someone who's unafraid to ask them out, who says what he wants to do, who believes in himself. Women are with jerks so much, because even if they don't admit it, they want confidence more than almost anything else in a man. Hopefully, I fall into the charismatic category.

SMILE. You want to people to enjoy being with you, and you want people to think you enjoy being with them, always smile.

Be good looking, women are like all of us, looks do matter. If you're not good looking, clean yourself up, shower, good haircut, clean stylish clothes, smell good. Be very hygenic.

Be funny, if you can make a woman laugh, you've made it 90% of the way there.

Listen to her, learn the art of conversation. How to draw a woman out, how to involve her in a conversation. Read How to Win Friends And Influence People, this book describes how people learn to like each other. Listen, pay attention to her and what's she's saying.

Bill Clinton, one of the most charismatic men on earth, is said to make whoever he's talking to feel like the only person in the room. That's what you're shooting for.

People want to be liked, people want to feel special. We all do. Be that person that makes them feel liked and special, and you will have success.
posted by patrickje at 10:14 AM on June 3, 2005 [1 favorite]


Rather than pretending you're someone interesting who does cool stuff, try actually being interesting, and actually doing cool stuff.

I'm working on this myself, but there's one caveat of which you should be aware: when the cool stuff you do is solitary in nature (e.g., writing, making music on your computer), you're going to feel pretty lonely sometimes.

Don't forget to take the occasional break and be social: I try to force myself to socialize once or twice each week. Of course, I'm fairly introverted, but I'm guessing you wouldn't be asking this if you weren't also.
posted by Eamon at 10:39 AM on June 3, 2005


girls don't like feeling interchangeable, which i think is why you're getting protests in response to those saying "do generic thing X." that's the problem with any of these "give me a one size fits all way to score with XX human beings." it's also why you got "pretend you actually give a crap about the specific girl even though you don't" advice right off the bat. i don't know; we like feeling like, uh, individuals, not one in a mass of fuckable flesh. so those chicks saying "be yourself" are right. and yeah, that doesn't mean you'll score with everyone, or even most people...but if what you want is a girlfriend who actually likes you and who you actually like, it's the way to go. there isn't some easy answer to "how do i find someone special." but yeah, if you meant just plain scoring, by all means, try the silly stuff mentioned here. i'm sure it works with some chicks. the rest of us though are laughing. hard.
posted by ifjuly at 10:18 AM on June 19, 2005


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