Help me talk to my neighbors about their aggressive dog

August 20, 2011 8:28 PM

What do I say to my new neighbors to prevent their untrained, unleashed, unfenced dog from rushing my fearful dog?

It hasn't happened yet but it will one day soon. I live next door to a rental whose new residents like to have their large dog outside with them, off leash, in their unfenced yard. The dog has no recall, and already I've seen it rush aggressively at numerous passersby and the little boy across the street. I have put a ton--a TON--of work into making my dog less fearful of other dogs and to have this dog rushing out at him right when we're leaving our house is going to be disastrous.

I really don't want to make enemies of this young couple. I just want them to keep their dog on a lead when they have it outside. I think I sometimes come off as more of a bitch than I really am and I'm really tense about this situation--bad combination! Please give me the exact words to say to them a) if I can talk to them ahead of time to try to head this off, AND b) if the dog rushes out at us before I get a chance to talk to them. Thank you so much.

posted by HotToddy to Human Relations (34 answers total)

"You need to control your dog." You can add a "please" in there if you like. There's nothing wrong with coming off as a bitch in this situation.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:39 PM on August 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

The dog has no recall, and already I've seen it rush aggressively at numerous passersby and the little boy across the street

Yea, that's not okay. You have no reason to feel like a bitch for asking them to control their dog for a perfectly good reason. Here are the words I'd use: "I'm worried that your dog is going to spook mine. You need to keep him on a leash when he's outside, okay?" Don't wait, but if you are in a situation where the dog rushes out to you go ahead and yell something like "hay, control your dog". No cursing, just loud and clear.
posted by The Devil Tesla at 8:53 PM on August 20, 2011

Please give me the exact words to say to them ... if I can talk to them ahead of time to try to head this off

"Hi, uh, I've noticed that you like to have your large dog Fido outside with you in the front yard. I love dogs, Fido is very cute. But I've noticed he tends to rush at people and other dogs when he's not on a leash, and my dog Fluffy is very fearful and I'm trying to help her get over her fear of other dogs. I'm kind of expecting Fido to rush Fluffy when I take her on our evening walks and that will be a big problem if it happens. Would it be a problem for you to keep Fido on a leash when you're in the front yard?"

They will then either give a good answer ("yes, no problem!"), a noncommittal answer ("we'll see what we can do"), or a bad answer ("listen lady, what we do with our dog is our own business"). The only acceptable answer is the good answer.

If they don't give a good answer, and then follow up by actually keeping Fido on a leash, you then need to call either their landlord and ask for his/her intervention, or the police and report their flouting of the leash laws (assuming your locality has them). Or either deal with it or move.

If you ask them to keep Fido on a leash, hold them to it. If you take Fluffy on a walk, and Fido rushes Fluffy, put Fluffy back in the house, and go to them with some fairly stern words. "We talked about this, I told you it would be a problem, and yet you continue to have Fido outside without a leash. Am I going to have to get the police involved?"

Unfortunately, the type of people who let their dog roam outside leashless, when it has rushed at numerous people including children, are not necessarily the type to do the considerate and responsible thing. You may have to ramp up the pressure on them. I hate people like that.
posted by jayder at 8:53 PM on August 20, 2011 [5 favorites]

"Hey, I wanted to talk to you about dogs ... I have one and I've noticed you do too, and the thing is, my dog is really scared of other dogs. I've been training him to be less fearful, but when an unleashed dog runs up to him, it's a bad situation. I noticed that your dog is free in the yard a lot, and I'm thinking this might cause problems when I take my dog for his evening walks. So I wanted to ask your help -- what do you think we can do about this?"

Ending with the question allows them to brainstorm ("you could call us when you're going out and then we'll bring Fido in," etc.).
posted by hungrytiger at 9:05 PM on August 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Record the bad behavior on a video camera, phone, whatever. It will help make your case to the landlord, police, animal control, and (god forbid) a judge after the animal reaches the kid or fluffy or whatever and get it destroyed or in a shelter or whatever. Letting a potentially dangerous animal loose is criminal (literally) behavior but you will have to prove it to get the authorities to take action if the owners do not (and typically what jayder said is right). Almost any way this goes is going to end badly for your neighborly relations (but do you want to be friends with these kind of jagoffs anyway?)
posted by bartonlong at 9:08 PM on August 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

"Hi there, your dog keeps charging mine and it's spooking me and my dog. Would you please keep your dog on a leash?"
posted by zippy at 9:11 PM on August 20, 2011

What zippy said plus: "A good trainer can really help socialize your dog. Here are some resources: [provide resources]."
posted by trip and a half at 9:15 PM on August 20, 2011

'Hey neighbors. Fluffy's a gorgeous dog. I wanted to let yolu know that the norm in this neighborhood is for dogs to stay leashed. I know that I'd prefer it because Muffin gets really anxious around other dogs. Thanks.'
posted by k8t at 9:15 PM on August 20, 2011

I really don't want to make enemies of this young couple.

It's possible that you could absolutely trip over yourself trying to be polite and respectful and they would still get their backs up.

Some people just don't have the maturity to deal with people calling them on their inconsiderate behavior.

So . . don't worry too much about their feelings. Say what you have to say and if they get pissy about it, them's the breaks.
posted by jason's_planet at 9:19 PM on August 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

God, I hate bad dog owners. It's like you're taking a wonderful thing and allowing it to grow wild. Dogs need guidance, and love.

Talk to the owners... if they won't listen... get yourself a can of the pepper spray that they postal workers carry. (make sure it's legal in your town)

The filming idea is also a good thing.
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 9:26 PM on August 20, 2011

Start by asking politely "I wonder if you would mind keeping your dog on a leash when you are all outside, thanks." If they ask why, simply state that it is a safety and comfort issue for you and your dog, and also perhaps mention to them that their dog's behavior could get it injured (if it rushes the wrong person or dog) or even branded a dangerous dog, and it's also simply poor manners on their part to allow it (they must have no idea about dog body language if they are oblivious to this). Check leash laws where you live and advise them of that if you like.

I no longer walk my dogs in my neighborhood (which has a strict leash law which people around here ignore on a regular basis) precisely because of this sort of lousy dog ownership. I am as crazy a dog lady as they come, and I still respect my dogs AS dogs, and I absolutely loathe it when people don't manage their dogs properly.
posted by biscotti at 9:42 PM on August 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

If they're still new neighbors, it makes sense to walk over to them and let them know that the norm in your neighborhood is to have all dogs leashed when outside, for the safety of children and other dogs as well as their own. You don't need to tell them about your dog being spooked by theirs, but you can let them know that when you moved here, someone told you the same thing, so you're passing it on because that's what neighbors do.

You can be totally cavalier about it. Just walk over, introduce yourself, and say, "When I first moved here, one of the first things my neighbor did was tell me about the dog etiquette of the neighborhood. Yours isn't an all-day barker, so we can skip that part, but you'll want to keep yours on a leash when he's outside, even if you've got an eye on him. It's just what we do here, parents on the block are more comfortable with it and all us dog owners are happy to oblige."
posted by juniperesque at 9:45 PM on August 20, 2011 [7 favorites]

I really, really think you should start polite here. Sure, they could be jerks in reply and blow you off, or get defensive. If they do that tho, then you can escalate.

I think if you start polite:
-If they're nice and just thoughtless or clueless, they'll be polite back
-If they're jerks, they'll be rude.

If you start off harsh, pissed off or passive aggressive:
-If they're nice/thoughtless/clueless, they'll be defensive or will think you are kooky
-If they're jerks, they'll be rude.

So I think you have nothing to lose. If as you say you often come off as more of a "bitch" than you are I'm not too concerned about you swinging too far the other way and letting yourself be stepped on.

I would probably say the following:

"Hey guys, do you have time to chat for a minute? I wanted to talk to you about some dog stuff."

Then I would probably blab for a little bit about my own stuff and go on kind of a monologue. "So, when I got Fuzzy she was super fearful of other dogs. I've done A, B, C, D, and X with her, and she's been making good progress. However I still really have to control her interactions with other dogs. That's why I always keep her leashed. I'm worried though that she will freak out if Bowser ever comes running up to her. Would you mind keeping Bowser on a leash around the vicinity of the building? It would really, really help me a lot because I'm worried she would lose all her progress if we ever had an "incident." What do you guys think?"
posted by Ashley801 at 10:06 PM on August 20, 2011 [5 favorites]

Are you a renter as well? As I'm sure you know you have very limited options as a renter with a dog. If you own, put up a fence. If you don't own, well...

'
posted by Rafaelloello at 11:30 PM on August 20, 2011

Perhaps...

"Hi, I'm a little freaked out about your dog, is it cool that you keep him leashed in the yard?"

And perhaps mutter under your breath...

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING RENTING A HOUSE WITH A DOG AND NO FENCE. LIKE IT'S RULE NUMBER ONE WHEN SCOPING HOUSES AS A DOG OWNER.

FENCE CHECK
TOILET CHECK
CONNECTED TO POWER CHECK
posted by the noob at 2:11 AM on August 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

I think Ashley nails it. Enlist your neighbor's help in solving a problem, and keep your judgements and broad opinions about how wrong they are to yourself.
posted by jon1270 at 3:07 AM on August 21, 2011

I dunno. I don't think you should have to resort to using your dog's fear, your discomfort, your anxiety as reasons for them to behave responsibly. I like the idea of using the power of the neighborhood norms, and making the conversation seem ... neighborly and helpful. I think juniperesque nailed it.
posted by thinkpiece at 3:56 AM on August 21, 2011

I like the idea of using the power of the neighborhood norms, and making the conversation seem ... neighborly and helpful.

I agree that this needn't be a confessional where the OP discloses all sorts of private anxieties to relative strangers, but what neighborhood norms are we talking about? The OP hasn't mentioned anything about expectations particular to her neighborhood. Appealing to neighborhood norms that don't actually exist could merely encourage the new neighbors to think of the OP as an ignorable busybody.
posted by jon1270 at 4:55 AM on August 21, 2011

I don't think this should be about your dog's anxiety. That makes it your problem dog, when in fact, the unleashed dog has already created anxiety for a number of others.

Be nice, make it about simple courtesy.
posted by arnicae at 5:49 AM on August 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Be prepared to have to go to the police with this, and document everything. There was a problem dog on my grandmother's street when I was a kid, always charging and being scary and barking like crazy whenever anyone came near the yard. But we had no "proof" and so it wasn't until the dog broke his (very lightweight) tether and jumped the (two foot high) fence and chased me down the street one Saturday morning, after many months of doing the charging thing, that anything changed. And by "changed" I mean that Animal Control came down and made them put up a 7' fence and keep him on a strong tether, because now the dog was officially aggressive or something (I guess: I was eight years old, so I just remember the day they put the fence in.) He still barked at me every day (I had to walk by to get to the bus stop) and charged to the edge of the tall fence, but there were no more "incidents."

(Note also that I've been terrified of dogs since then. You're not just protecting your pet here.)
posted by SMPA at 6:39 AM on August 21, 2011

Check the leash laws and any pet control laws in your town. Then, We're training our dog for socialization, and we want you to keep your dog under control. We've noticed that your dog rushes at people and other dogs, and that's not okay in our yard. How they do it is up to them. If they continue to allow their dog to harass people and other dogs, complain to Animal Control and their landlord.

They don't seem to mind that their dog is dangerous and obnoxious, so I wouldn't be too worried about the enemy piece. Other than the dog, be good neighbors.
posted by theora55 at 7:30 AM on August 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I agree with people above about having a calm conversation with your neighbours. But perhaps you could also take note that these two dogs are going to have to get on if they are going to live in each others territory. A difficult encounter with the owners may hurt the work you've been doing to eliminate the nervousness in your dog, and avoidance is also a stressful addition to the mix.

Maybe try: "My dog is a bit nervous around other dogs, and your dog is new to the area, do you mind if we make a time to get them properly socialised so that we don't have any dramas? My dog reacts badly to being rushed and it would be good for both dogs to get accustomed to each other." You could read about how to socialise them, but for me, taking each dog on leads separately from their homes to a third/neutral location/aim to pass each other in the street [not your street] and letting them sniff each other for a bit and then walk on in different directions has worked. Just let them have a sniff, give treats if that's what you do, walk on your way a few times. You need to keep a calm, positive energy [I detect anxiety that is going to be detected - obviously - by your dog] and keep it all business - stop, sniff, walk on. I agree that a rushing dog in an unenclosed yard is BAD, I'm not minimising your feelings, but remember the chief goal for you is avoiding stress in your dog. The first interaction between the two needs to be as neutral as possible.
posted by honey-barbara at 7:47 AM on August 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Is the dog aggressive and mean or aggressively friendly? Did the dog rush the neighbor kid in anger or because the dog wanted to play? This might seem irrelevant to folks who are scared of dogs, but it might make a difference in how these folks perceive their pooch.

I know you are tense, and I know what you mean about not wanting to come across as a bitch with new neighbors. Some folks here seem to be thinking in terms of escalation when that might not yet be necessary. If the dog seems to have friendly intentions, then I would pop over one time when they were out with the dog, leaving your dog inside of course, and go make friendly with them all, including and especially the dog. It'd be good for the dog to know you, I think. Chat about the neighborhood and dogs in general. Then lead up to something like, "Fido is such a sweetie, but my Fifi is super scared of other dogs. It'd be a big help to me if you could leash Fido when Fifi and I are leaving, because I don't want her to be scared."

Plan A is that these folks leash Fido. Plan B is that before you go out with Fifi, you ask them to leash Fido. Not ideal, but it'd work for Fifi and have them functioning as your ally rather than enemy.

Fifi is probably going to pick up on your anxiety otherwise.

For what it's worth, I once spent a lot of energy being super anxious about new neighbors and their dog because of my nervous dog, and it turned out to be much ado about nothing. Everything worked out fine.

Good luck.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:34 AM on August 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

My guess is that they do not perceive their dog as dangerous. Our dogs love people and they get so excited that people can be intimidated. There are times the leash has slipped out of my hand and they rush some poor toddler. I know that the dogs are not going to do any harm to anyone, but the parents and kid don't know that. My dogs also bark at other dogs, yet it's all sound and fury signifying nothing. Fido is probably a big baby in their eyes.

I think it'd be best to approach them as if they were ignorant rather than malicious or willfully stupid. You could say "I notice that Fido is often off-leash. My dog is skittish around other dogs and I'm concerned that Fido will charge her. I'm also concerned that Fido could get hit by a car, people drive pretty fast down this street sometimes (whether this is true or not, they just moved here). Would you please keep Fido chained up when he's outside? I was at Home Depot last week and I saw that they have tie-outs for $10."
posted by desjardins at 8:39 AM on August 21, 2011

Maybe a little fib? "Hey, I wanted to let you know, the police around here are really aggressive about ticketing for the leash laws! If they come around here when you're out with Fido, you will probably get a ticket. They don't even give warnings, just tickets, and it's $X! It's totally crazy! But you should probably keep Fido on a leash, even in our yard, because if he puts one paw on the sidewalk when the police can see it, boom, $X!"
posted by BrashTech at 8:41 AM on August 21, 2011

Whatever you do you should say something. I have a guy in my urban neighborhood who lets his bulldog run around without a leash on the sidewalk while he smokes. One day I rounded a corner with my (also anxious) dog and the bulldog charged while growling. I've seen a bulldog clamp on to another dog and it's not pretty, I didn't know if this dog was going to attack or just wanted to play. I picked my (not small) dog up out of reach and was lucky the bulldog didn't take off my leg. The owner ended up having to literally tackle his dog on the sidewalk to get him to stop, and I proceeded to scream at him in a not very nice tone about what the local leash laws are and what I thought of him.

I had seen him out before and should have said something earlier or called the cops. Unleashed dogs are dangerous and we have leash laws for a reason, you're not being a bitch by calling out their irresponsible behavior.
posted by bradbane at 10:01 AM on August 21, 2011

You have good advice above about having a calm, respectful but firm conversation with your neighbors and finding out what the animal control laws are in your area. You also have your first priority exactly right -- keeping your dog safe, unstressed and unharmed. There is an aspect of this I'd like to give input on.

If your dog is rushed by an offleash dog with unknown intentions, get him/her behind you. Use your biggest voice and biggest stance to tell the other dog off -- go home, get away, fuck off, whatever words work for you. Carry a stick of some sort; I've used a riding crop and a trekking pole among other things.

In no way are you being a bitch by keeping your dog safe. I'll be honest -- I had no idea how outspoken protective I could be until my dogs were attacked. You have an opportunity to improve your situation before it comes to that.
posted by vers at 3:11 PM on August 21, 2011

I don't have any other advice to add to the great advice already given, just affirmation that you are rightfully concerned. I have four awesome German and Dutch Shepherds who are always on lead with me on walks. They are therapy dog certified and have terrific manners. Time after time (15 minutes ago, in fact), it's the purse dogs that people don't have on lead in public that rush mine. If my dogs were to lunge at these intruders of their space, I'm sure we'd be the bad guys, but I have no problem abandoning my otherwise polite demeanor to defend my dogs from such a tragedy. If someone is permitting their dog to rush mine, I tell them, "You need to get your dog right now." If your neighbors' dog had any kind of recall at all, perhaps they'd feel right to get a little indignant, but they've proven they don't have sufficient control, and you don't want the hard work you've done with your dog to be ruined by the constant threat of a bad experience. Your concern over the constant threat will likely transfer. Please feel justified in speaking with your neighbors. :-)
posted by lucy40 at 5:19 PM on August 21, 2011

Any loose dog that goes after me or my dog earns a hard kick to the groin. That's a one-time solution -- they are never interested in a repeat. If the owner doesn't like his dog getting kicked he can jolly well take steps to control his animal.

I don't care if that offends the sensibilities of some people or if it seems "mean". I do care about my (very expensive, absolutely gorgeous) dog and my own limbs.

Or do as vers says and use a stick. Picking up a dog is not the right answer, though, as it will impede your ability to defend both of you and quite possibly cause the loose dog to jump at you.

Onlly slightly OT, but here is a useful article on safely breaking up a dog fight.
posted by trinity8-director at 5:20 PM on August 21, 2011

Talk to the dog owner. Don't expect much reaction or consideration.

Then carry a squirt gun full of ammonia water. Your dog isn't the only one liable to be hurt. Protect both of you.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:29 PM on August 21, 2011

I frequently walk my dog around unleased dogs with clueless owners. I resort to picking my dog up and if an unleashed dog persists in coming up to us, I hip check it while telling the owner to get their dog.

If someone protests that their dog is good, I reply that mine isn't and will probably bite. I don't really care if I come off as a bitch about it....so I guess in your situation if the neighbors and their dog were out when I wanted to go out, I'd ask them to hold onto their dog until we've left the immediate area. For their dog's safety.
posted by noxetlux at 11:20 AM on August 22, 2011

unleashed not unleased *eyeroll*
posted by noxetlux at 11:21 AM on August 22, 2011

"I'm a little worried about the safety of your dog. I've seen him rush off your property to greet others, which could easily result in someone walking through the neighborhood charging you with negligence or failure to control an aggressive animal. Either could result in heavy fines, having Fluffy impounded, and possibly even put down if the charge is repeated. Please think of the safety of your dog!"

You don't even have to mention that you might be the one calling the police. And, BTW, the first steps will not be to have the dog put down. The first steps are to inconvenience and fine the owners so heavily that they never do it again.
posted by IAmBroom at 9:23 AM on August 23, 2011

My landlord is like your neighbor, except that he's been in the neighborhood longer than anyone else. His dog is an excitable but essentially harmless scruffy little white terrier mutt. Every summer evening as neighbors stroll by with their dogs there's a series of exchanges like this:

Neighbor dog and human walk by, leashed. Barking ensues.
Milo (the terrier) rushes out into the street.
Scott (the landlord) calls out "He won't hurt ya! MILO! Get over here!"
More barking. Milo runs around in excited circles, and eventually comes back into his front yard.
Neighbor and dog walk away.

I hate this, especially since I share a driveway with Scott and Milo, and my own (easygoing, always leashed) dog is a pit bull; the last thing Crosbie and I need is negative attention in the canine realm.

But Scott is nearly seventy, he's lived in that house for nearly all his life, and he's not going to change. Insofar as he's even aware of any "neighborhood norms" that have evolved, he probably considers them more or less yuppie aberrations. He's a decent guy; he doesn't want to scare anyone, but he grew up with unleashed dogs and that's what feels normal to him.

Of the advice offered above, the only approach that might conceivably work with a guy like Scott is Ashley801's.
posted by tangerine at 5:49 PM on August 25, 2011