Computer freezes, what do?
July 31, 2011 1:19 AM Subscribe
My computer freezes. I'd like it to stop doing that. More details inside.
I posted before about this issue here. Unfortunately, it's still not solved.
Computer freezes while playing games (any game); it also froze once while watching a DVD. After freezing, it's completely unresponsive - the screen freezes at whatever it was displaying, the sound will start repeating the last second, and mouse and keyboard won't work. Only way to get out of it is to press the reset button on the computer.
I'm running Windows Vista 64bit, fresh install on a brand new hard disk, all drivers up to date etc.
The freezes are very random. I can be fine for hours and hours and even an entire day and then get two or three in a row.
If I'm running a game but alt-tabbed out of it, the computer can and will still freeze.
What I know it's not:
- graphics card (sent it back to where I bought it from, it was tested and declared free of any faults)
- RAM (I've ran memtest as well as tried running the computer with only one RAM stick in at a time - still froze)
- power supply (brand new, replaced literally two days ago)
- overheating of any kind (all fans work, the inside of the case is clean and free of dust, and - just in case - I tried running it with the case open and a desk fan pointed at it, and it still froze; and the desk fan thing helped my old computer not freeze, and that one had a broken fan on the graphics card and would freeze within a minute of booting without the desk fan on)
The motherboard and CPU are secondhand (my boyfriend upgraded and gave me his old ones - they worked perfectly fine in his system, but...).
My next step, I'm guessing, is to get the heatsink off the CPU and replace the thermal paste.
Am I missing anything? Is there anything else it could be?
I posted before about this issue here. Unfortunately, it's still not solved.
Computer freezes while playing games (any game); it also froze once while watching a DVD. After freezing, it's completely unresponsive - the screen freezes at whatever it was displaying, the sound will start repeating the last second, and mouse and keyboard won't work. Only way to get out of it is to press the reset button on the computer.
I'm running Windows Vista 64bit, fresh install on a brand new hard disk, all drivers up to date etc.
The freezes are very random. I can be fine for hours and hours and even an entire day and then get two or three in a row.
If I'm running a game but alt-tabbed out of it, the computer can and will still freeze.
What I know it's not:
- graphics card (sent it back to where I bought it from, it was tested and declared free of any faults)
- RAM (I've ran memtest as well as tried running the computer with only one RAM stick in at a time - still froze)
- power supply (brand new, replaced literally two days ago)
- overheating of any kind (all fans work, the inside of the case is clean and free of dust, and - just in case - I tried running it with the case open and a desk fan pointed at it, and it still froze; and the desk fan thing helped my old computer not freeze, and that one had a broken fan on the graphics card and would freeze within a minute of booting without the desk fan on)
The motherboard and CPU are secondhand (my boyfriend upgraded and gave me his old ones - they worked perfectly fine in his system, but...).
My next step, I'm guessing, is to get the heatsink off the CPU and replace the thermal paste.
Am I missing anything? Is there anything else it could be?
Just because the graphics card was "tested as working" doesn't mean that it's actually ok: It's perfectly possible for a card to work perfectly in one machine and not in another for a variety of reasons unfortunately. Can you try a different card?
Also, are you running the latest drivers downloaded directly from the manufacturer or just whichever drivers Microsoft ships?
posted by pharm at 2:00 AM on July 31, 2011
Also, are you running the latest drivers downloaded directly from the manufacturer or just whichever drivers Microsoft ships?
posted by pharm at 2:00 AM on July 31, 2011
Response by poster: The only other card I've got is my old one - it's ATI rather than Nvidia, which means I'd have to mess about switching drivers around, and it has a non-working fan, which would make it more problematic.
I have the latest drivers downloaded directly from the manufacturer.
posted by sailoreagle at 2:13 AM on July 31, 2011
I have the latest drivers downloaded directly from the manufacturer.
posted by sailoreagle at 2:13 AM on July 31, 2011
Try running msconfig and remove all non-essential startup items. If that works, re-enable them one at a time until the freezes reoccur and then you'll have your culprit.
posted by dougrayrankin at 2:15 AM on July 31, 2011
posted by dougrayrankin at 2:15 AM on July 31, 2011
What's the wattage of the new power supply compared to the old? It could be working perfectly but still brown out under load spikes.
Other random things you could try -
Making sure your bios is up to date (you said your drivers were up to date, but this is pretty easy to forget)
running gpu-intensive but non-graphics benchmarks (for instance, a bitcoin miner, although more application-specific ones probably exist)
try everything again in a linux live-cd using WINE (this is a bit of an extreme measure)
posted by marakesh at 2:16 AM on July 31, 2011
Other random things you could try -
Making sure your bios is up to date (you said your drivers were up to date, but this is pretty easy to forget)
running gpu-intensive but non-graphics benchmarks (for instance, a bitcoin miner, although more application-specific ones probably exist)
try everything again in a linux live-cd using WINE (this is a bit of an extreme measure)
posted by marakesh at 2:16 AM on July 31, 2011
Response by poster: @dougrayrankin
Tried that already, no joy. Still freezes with only the essentials running.
@marakesh
The old power supply was 450W; the new one is 750W, which by all accounts is more than enough for what I'm running with it. The whole reason I replaced the power supply is I suspected the old one might be unable to keep up with load spikes - a wrong assessment, clearly.
The BIOS is up to date as well.
posted by sailoreagle at 2:41 AM on July 31, 2011
Tried that already, no joy. Still freezes with only the essentials running.
@marakesh
The old power supply was 450W; the new one is 750W, which by all accounts is more than enough for what I'm running with it. The whole reason I replaced the power supply is I suspected the old one might be unable to keep up with load spikes - a wrong assessment, clearly.
The BIOS is up to date as well.
posted by sailoreagle at 2:41 AM on July 31, 2011
What graphics card & CPU are you using & what make is the power supply?
posted by pharm at 2:53 AM on July 31, 2011
posted by pharm at 2:53 AM on July 31, 2011
Response by poster: The power supply brand is Antec. My CPU is an Intel Core2 Duo E8600; my graphics card is a Nvidia GeForce GT 440.
posted by sailoreagle at 3:06 AM on July 31, 2011
posted by sailoreagle at 3:06 AM on July 31, 2011
Antec are a quality brand, so you ought to be ok there.
The NVidia forums are saying that the latest drivers have stability issues. Might be worth downgrading from 270.x to 266.58?
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=201201
posted by pharm at 3:14 AM on July 31, 2011
The NVidia forums are saying that the latest drivers have stability issues. Might be worth downgrading from 270.x to 266.58?
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=201201
posted by pharm at 3:14 AM on July 31, 2011
Response by poster: Unfortunately I started having the issue on the 266.58 drivers, and it persisted once I updated, through several updates (right now I'm on 275.33).
posted by sailoreagle at 3:30 AM on July 31, 2011
posted by sailoreagle at 3:30 AM on July 31, 2011
You could try running Linux off a live USB key to see if it also freezes then. This is a pretty simple test to see if it is a software or hardware problem. There are instructions how to create a bootable USB here on Ubuntu.com. Run the live-USB desktop and play a DVD or two, and play some games. (I'm sure there are some ham-fisted clones of popular 3D games available in Ubuntu Linux.)
P.s.: Vista is really horrible, says everybody I know who have used it. The majority of these are computer scientists and long-time Windows users. Windows 7 is strongly indicated.
posted by krilli at 5:27 AM on July 31, 2011
P.s.: Vista is really horrible, says everybody I know who have used it. The majority of these are computer scientists and long-time Windows users. Windows 7 is strongly indicated.
posted by krilli at 5:27 AM on July 31, 2011
Whenever I've had problems with freezing/stuttering, it's boiled down to issues with the sound card drivers.
Are you using a sound card, or the onboard sound? Either way, is it Creative? Regardless, I would:
a. clean out the registry. Download CCleaner if you don't have it. Run the registry tab and delete whatever bad keys it finds. Run it again and keep doing that until it doesn't find any issues.
b. update your motherboard chipset drivers
c. update your sound/soundcard drivers
posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:46 AM on July 31, 2011
Are you using a sound card, or the onboard sound? Either way, is it Creative? Regardless, I would:
a. clean out the registry. Download CCleaner if you don't have it. Run the registry tab and delete whatever bad keys it finds. Run it again and keep doing that until it doesn't find any issues.
b. update your motherboard chipset drivers
c. update your sound/soundcard drivers
posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:46 AM on July 31, 2011
Hm, yes. Good guess from Benny Andajetz here. What I would try in addition to suggestions A/B/C is to disable the onboard sound in the BIOS and see if that stops the crashiness.
posted by krilli at 6:50 AM on July 31, 2011
posted by krilli at 6:50 AM on July 31, 2011
Response by poster: Soundcard - hm, good question.
I've got something called an "Asus Supreme FX II" that cursory googling indicates is not so much a soundcard as it is an addition that came with the motherboard because they didn't have enough room to put audio jacks directly on the motherboard.
I'm guessing that counts as onboard sound?
I'll go grab CCleaner and try disable onboard sound in the BIOS. Will report back.
posted by sailoreagle at 7:03 AM on July 31, 2011
I've got something called an "Asus Supreme FX II" that cursory googling indicates is not so much a soundcard as it is an addition that came with the motherboard because they didn't have enough room to put audio jacks directly on the motherboard.
I'm guessing that counts as onboard sound?
I'll go grab CCleaner and try disable onboard sound in the BIOS. Will report back.
posted by sailoreagle at 7:03 AM on July 31, 2011
I had the same problem (under XP, not Vista) and it seemed to be associated with very graphics-heavy programs. It did not occur under Ububtu (though I didn't have the same graphics programs to try so this may not be relevant) but my theory is that it was the driver. I never really solved the problem so I have nothing to suggest other than my experience trying.
posted by Obscure Reference at 7:16 AM on July 31, 2011
posted by Obscure Reference at 7:16 AM on July 31, 2011
Response by poster: Ran CCleaner, found a bunch of bad registry keys, deleted those, we'll see if that helps any (I'm not holding my breath but it would be nice if it fixed it...).
The Asus Supreme FX II is indeed onboard sound, as when I disabled onboard sound in the BIOS it killed my sound entirely - which is unfortunately not an acceptable solution as I rely on having working sound.
Re: testing on Ubuntu - would the Ubuntu LiveCD / LiveUSB include WINE, and if so how do I use that to launch - oh, let's say World of Warcraft, for basic testing purposes? Assume I'm Linux-dumb, because I am.
posted by sailoreagle at 7:29 AM on July 31, 2011
The Asus Supreme FX II is indeed onboard sound, as when I disabled onboard sound in the BIOS it killed my sound entirely - which is unfortunately not an acceptable solution as I rely on having working sound.
Re: testing on Ubuntu - would the Ubuntu LiveCD / LiveUSB include WINE, and if so how do I use that to launch - oh, let's say World of Warcraft, for basic testing purposes? Assume I'm Linux-dumb, because I am.
posted by sailoreagle at 7:29 AM on July 31, 2011
2 things you can do:
1) To eliminate a software issue, boot from a live CD like Ubuntu, and use that. If that doesn't crash for a few days, you know you [most likely] have a software issue.
2) Check the actual temperatures of the CPU and other components. Just because you removed the side of the case and all the fans work, doesn't mean that the CPU (or other components) aren't overheating.
Do #2 first. Use a utility like cpuid hwmonitor.
Robert.
posted by Sonic_Molson at 8:22 AM on July 31, 2011
1) To eliminate a software issue, boot from a live CD like Ubuntu, and use that. If that doesn't crash for a few days, you know you [most likely] have a software issue.
2) Check the actual temperatures of the CPU and other components. Just because you removed the side of the case and all the fans work, doesn't mean that the CPU (or other components) aren't overheating.
Do #2 first. Use a utility like cpuid hwmonitor.
Robert.
posted by Sonic_Molson at 8:22 AM on July 31, 2011
(Disabling the sound wasn't intented as a solution per se, but as a step in the process of elimination to find out what the problem is)</small<
posted by krilli at 2:20 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by krilli at 2:20 PM on July 31, 2011
My Windows 7 Ultimate PC sometimes freezes for 30 seconds at a time. I don't know yet if this solution will fix it permanently because I just tried it this afternoon, but I looked at the Process Explorer window and found audiodg.exe had the hightest CPU usage. I then searched for and found a Web page that explained what to do.
posted by davcoo at 4:16 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by davcoo at 4:16 PM on July 31, 2011
Response by poster: CCleaning (har) didn't help any.
I'll try replacing the thermal paste on the CPU at some point soon. If I'm lucky, that'll fix it... if I'm not, I guess I'll be using next week's question for this, too, eh?
posted by sailoreagle at 5:11 PM on July 31, 2011
I'll try replacing the thermal paste on the CPU at some point soon. If I'm lucky, that'll fix it... if I'm not, I guess I'll be using next week's question for this, too, eh?
posted by sailoreagle at 5:11 PM on July 31, 2011
Seems to me that there's less messing about involved in switching out graphics card drivers and graphics cards than there is in re-doing thermal paste.
Best of luck - intermittent faults are just bastard things to find.
posted by flabdablet at 6:12 PM on July 31, 2011
Best of luck - intermittent faults are just bastard things to find.
posted by flabdablet at 6:12 PM on July 31, 2011
I'm thinking it's the graphics card. Even though the manufacturer tested it, they obviously couldn't test it in your system.
I'd probably try a CPU-only benchmarks test of some sort to verify it's not the CPU overheating, then try to run some graphics tests under a Linux live cd to see if you can make the problem occur there.
posted by 6550 at 6:50 PM on July 31, 2011
I'd probably try a CPU-only benchmarks test of some sort to verify it's not the CPU overheating, then try to run some graphics tests under a Linux live cd to see if you can make the problem occur there.
posted by 6550 at 6:50 PM on July 31, 2011
It wasn't clear from your posts last time if you ran memtest86+ or not. You should try that if you haven't already.
posted by beerbajay at 1:00 AM on August 1, 2011
posted by beerbajay at 1:00 AM on August 1, 2011
I've had RAM problems before that for some reason didn't show up on memtest (in a previous askme here). My guess is that the RAM was technically ok, but there's some weird incompatibility between it and the mb or cpu.
The way I diagnosed it was by running Prime 95 with the RAM heavy tests which would cause the computer to freeze almost instantly.
posted by chndrcks at 7:26 AM on August 1, 2011
The way I diagnosed it was by running Prime 95 with the RAM heavy tests which would cause the computer to freeze almost instantly.
posted by chndrcks at 7:26 AM on August 1, 2011
Response by poster: I've ran both memtest86+ and Prime 95 with the RAM-heavy tests, as well as ran the computer with only one of the sticks in rather than two. It's not the RAM.
Right, things I'll do, in order:
- Replace the new graphics card with the old, switch drivers around (although this'll require me to keep the case open and a desk fan going at it as the old graphics card has a broken fan, but hey), see if it still freezes
- Remove heatsink, replace thermal paste, replace heatsink
I'm so sick of this you wouldn't believe. The whole point of putting together a new computer was so I'd stop being so frustrated by my old one's slowness, dead graphic card fan and need to run it with a desk fan going at it to keep it cool. And I've been struggling with this freezing issue for months now. Ughhhhh.
posted by sailoreagle at 8:02 AM on August 1, 2011
Right, things I'll do, in order:
- Replace the new graphics card with the old, switch drivers around (although this'll require me to keep the case open and a desk fan going at it as the old graphics card has a broken fan, but hey), see if it still freezes
- Remove heatsink, replace thermal paste, replace heatsink
I'm so sick of this you wouldn't believe. The whole point of putting together a new computer was so I'd stop being so frustrated by my old one's slowness, dead graphic card fan and need to run it with a desk fan going at it to keep it cool. And I've been struggling with this freezing issue for months now. Ughhhhh.
posted by sailoreagle at 8:02 AM on August 1, 2011
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posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:59 AM on July 31, 2011