What is a council house?
May 24, 2005 3:40 PM Subscribe
Can someone please explain to me what a council house is, and what it means to live in one?
I have been watching an old BBC show in which some of the characters live in a council house. My basic googling isn't really helping much. I assume that this is something that anyone living in the UK would be able to explain to me.
Are they all run down? Do they tend to be occupied by the poor? Are they associated with criminal activity and drugs? Are they owned by the government, or by the individual tenants?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give. The fact that they live in a council house seems to automatically explain a lot about the characters, and I think I'm missing this.
I have been watching an old BBC show in which some of the characters live in a council house. My basic googling isn't really helping much. I assume that this is something that anyone living in the UK would be able to explain to me.
Are they all run down? Do they tend to be occupied by the poor? Are they associated with criminal activity and drugs? Are they owned by the government, or by the individual tenants?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give. The fact that they live in a council house seems to automatically explain a lot about the characters, and I think I'm missing this.
um, yes, pretty much all of the above.
Council houses are mostly owned by the local council (surprise!) and rented out at reduced rates to those on welfare/benefits. As a result the council house neighbourhoods fill up with poor/lazy/underprivileged people, who generally breed uncontrollably, and the areas suffer as a result. To get a house you usually have to have a certain number of 'points' calculated on your personal circumstances, income, dependents etc.
Recently there's been a 'right-to-buy' scheme which gives council tenants the right to purchase their house at a much reduced cost, so yes, some do own them.
posted by corvine at 3:48 PM on May 24, 2005
Council houses are mostly owned by the local council (surprise!) and rented out at reduced rates to those on welfare/benefits. As a result the council house neighbourhoods fill up with poor/lazy/underprivileged people, who generally breed uncontrollably, and the areas suffer as a result. To get a house you usually have to have a certain number of 'points' calculated on your personal circumstances, income, dependents etc.
Recently there's been a 'right-to-buy' scheme which gives council tenants the right to purchase their house at a much reduced cost, so yes, some do own them.
posted by corvine at 3:48 PM on May 24, 2005
they were originally constructed by the govt for the less well off. thatcher "encoraged" local govt to sell them to the people living inside. you can infer the rest.
posted by andrew cooke at 3:50 PM on May 24, 2005
posted by andrew cooke at 3:50 PM on May 24, 2005
Council houses are properties owned by the local council to provide housing for low income groups eg unemployed, elderly etc. And yes, regrettably there is a link between low income groups and criminal activity. Recently in Britain, some local councils have sought to raise cash by selling these homes to private owners.
Don't get me wrong though, like all urban areas, some are better than others: my grandparents lived in council housing, and they didn't sell crack or keep a shooter in the closet.
Oh yeah, and if you didn't know, there's a new term in Britain - chav. It denotes a youth from such an area, and is an acronym of council house and violence....
What's the show btw?
posted by forallmankind at 3:50 PM on May 24, 2005
Don't get me wrong though, like all urban areas, some are better than others: my grandparents lived in council housing, and they didn't sell crack or keep a shooter in the closet.
Oh yeah, and if you didn't know, there's a new term in Britain - chav. It denotes a youth from such an area, and is an acronym of council house and violence....
What's the show btw?
posted by forallmankind at 3:50 PM on May 24, 2005
further to my comment above, the super-high priority you get for being a young single unemployed mother is sometimes blamed for the UK's high teenage pregnancy rate.
on preview - yes, what's the show?
posted by corvine at 3:52 PM on May 24, 2005
on preview - yes, what's the show?
posted by corvine at 3:52 PM on May 24, 2005
at the risk of being a thread-hog, I have to add that I live in an ex-council flat at the moment. it's not pretty, but lovely and roomy, and the neighbours are well behaved. this is possibly due to the town police HQ being across the road.
my flat is tenement-style, and if it was in a bad area would be god-awful to live in. I'm going to shut up and go away now.
posted by corvine at 3:57 PM on May 24, 2005
my flat is tenement-style, and if it was in a bad area would be god-awful to live in. I'm going to shut up and go away now.
posted by corvine at 3:57 PM on May 24, 2005
oh yeah, and in cities, council houses tend to to take the form of tower/ high rise accommodation.
The lead character in A Clockwork Orange lives in a council house - the exteriors were filmed at a project in Woolwich, South London.
I went down there to check it out and - surprise, surprise - it was pram/ stroller hell. Having said that, before I made my millions I read gas meters in London, so I've been inside tons and tons of council houses, and mostly people were much more genuine and friendly than the rich bastards up in Knightsbridge who thought I was coming to nick stuff....
posted by forallmankind at 4:18 PM on May 24, 2005
The lead character in A Clockwork Orange lives in a council house - the exteriors were filmed at a project in Woolwich, South London.
I went down there to check it out and - surprise, surprise - it was pram/ stroller hell. Having said that, before I made my millions I read gas meters in London, so I've been inside tons and tons of council houses, and mostly people were much more genuine and friendly than the rich bastards up in Knightsbridge who thought I was coming to nick stuff....
posted by forallmankind at 4:18 PM on May 24, 2005
This American figured out the meaning of "council flat" via hearing the song "My Old Man's a Dustman" (garbageman to Americans, I assume) on Dr. Demento...
"Oh, my old man's a dustman
He wears a dustman's hat
He wears cor blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat ...
Some folks give tips at Christmas
And some of them forget
So when he picks their bins up
He spills some on the steps
Now one old man got nasty
And to the council wrote
Next time my old man went 'round there
He punched him up the throat"
posted by GaelFC at 6:26 PM on May 24, 2005
"Oh, my old man's a dustman
He wears a dustman's hat
He wears cor blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat ...
Some folks give tips at Christmas
And some of them forget
So when he picks their bins up
He spills some on the steps
Now one old man got nasty
And to the council wrote
Next time my old man went 'round there
He punched him up the throat"
posted by GaelFC at 6:26 PM on May 24, 2005
As a result the council house neighbourhoods fill up with poor/lazy/underprivileged people, who generally breed uncontrollably, and the areas suffer as a result.
Jesus, that's an objectionable and classist stereotyping. I know it's slightly different in England and Wales, but in Scotland at least council housing at one time made up 80% of the national housing stock.
Council houses are not like projects. Essentially, they are homes -- apartments, semi-detached and terraces -- built and owned by the local branch of government. They are leased to whoever wants them, at a fixed -- and usually very cheap -- price for everyone. (Contrary to what Corvine thinks, they are not rented at reduced rates to the poor. The government *will* pay a certain amount of rent for anyone eligible -- below a certain income -- but they do not have to live in a council house: the rent is paid to their landlord).
For reasons of economy, council housing is generally built in large estates -- sometimes entire towns (known as new towns) have been built out of council housing. This, combined with the low rents, does lend similarity to American housing projects, but without the attendent notions of social exclusion and poverty. Council houses are essentially working class.
In short: Someone living in a council house can be assumed to be working class, not wealthy, and generally very blue collar. Roseanne would live in a council house. Eminem would have been brought up in one.
posted by bonaldi at 7:04 PM on May 24, 2005 [1 favorite]
Jesus, that's an objectionable and classist stereotyping. I know it's slightly different in England and Wales, but in Scotland at least council housing at one time made up 80% of the national housing stock.
Council houses are not like projects. Essentially, they are homes -- apartments, semi-detached and terraces -- built and owned by the local branch of government. They are leased to whoever wants them, at a fixed -- and usually very cheap -- price for everyone. (Contrary to what Corvine thinks, they are not rented at reduced rates to the poor. The government *will* pay a certain amount of rent for anyone eligible -- below a certain income -- but they do not have to live in a council house: the rent is paid to their landlord).
For reasons of economy, council housing is generally built in large estates -- sometimes entire towns (known as new towns) have been built out of council housing. This, combined with the low rents, does lend similarity to American housing projects, but without the attendent notions of social exclusion and poverty. Council houses are essentially working class.
In short: Someone living in a council house can be assumed to be working class, not wealthy, and generally very blue collar. Roseanne would live in a council house. Eminem would have been brought up in one.
posted by bonaldi at 7:04 PM on May 24, 2005 [1 favorite]
If you want to see the council-houses stereotype hilariously depicted, catch Shameless on BBC America. (I assume that's not the show you're watching, since all its characters live in council housing.)
posted by nicwolff at 8:56 PM on May 24, 2005
posted by nicwolff at 8:56 PM on May 24, 2005
So, council housing is a step up from the pj's (or The Projects or just proj, as we say here in urban America)? Are there real PJ's in U.K.? (I thought I saw some in that Mike Leigh movie, All or Nothing). I don't know Shameless.
And, how do those "terrace" like row homes fit in, like we always see in industrial England movies (Brassed Off, Billy Elliott, Oliver!, Meaning of Life)?
posted by Duck_Lips at 10:38 PM on May 24, 2005
And, how do those "terrace" like row homes fit in, like we always see in industrial England movies (Brassed Off, Billy Elliott, Oliver!, Meaning of Life)?
posted by Duck_Lips at 10:38 PM on May 24, 2005
Duck Lips: The row houses, the newer ones are just like American "Town Homes" (and many suburban condos), are just economical of space. I lived in one, it was quite wonderful for the area. This style of building is so common (at least in Berkshire) that adverts specify "detached" or "semi-detached" (an end of a row).
Oh, and you may not know, "Council" is the local level of government in the U.K., although its kind of obvious. But local isn't exactly by city (I lived in a council area consisting of two small cities, referred to as a Borough).
Some poor people are housed in privately owned units for which the council pays rent. Alas, my last landlord there was used to renting to council clients. She got a big surprise when she decided to rent her own home and dealt with us! The table was turned, it was amusing. She was Indian, perhaps it was a karmic kind of thing :->
posted by Goofyy at 11:21 PM on May 24, 2005
Oh, and you may not know, "Council" is the local level of government in the U.K., although its kind of obvious. But local isn't exactly by city (I lived in a council area consisting of two small cities, referred to as a Borough).
Some poor people are housed in privately owned units for which the council pays rent. Alas, my last landlord there was used to renting to council clients. She got a big surprise when she decided to rent her own home and dealt with us! The table was turned, it was amusing. She was Indian, perhaps it was a karmic kind of thing :->
posted by Goofyy at 11:21 PM on May 24, 2005
"Council" is the local level of government in the U.K., although its kind of obvious. But local isn't exactly by city
Council isn't really a particular local level of government, but a form of government. Some areas are unitary authorities which will be borough or city councils. The other areas have two levels of government—a district/borough/city council subsumed by a county council. In the latter case it's the county council that is responsible for housing. Some areas have smaller levels of representation such as ward and civil parish councils, although they usually don't have many governing responsibilities.
posted by grouse at 11:55 PM on May 24, 2005
Council isn't really a particular local level of government, but a form of government. Some areas are unitary authorities which will be borough or city councils. The other areas have two levels of government—a district/borough/city council subsumed by a county council. In the latter case it's the county council that is responsible for housing. Some areas have smaller levels of representation such as ward and civil parish councils, although they usually don't have many governing responsibilities.
posted by grouse at 11:55 PM on May 24, 2005
"Semi-detached" doesn't mean "end of row". The rows are called terraces, and "end of terrace" means exactly that. A semi-detached property is on building that contains two houses side by side, sharing a common internal wall.
posted by benzo8 at 1:17 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by benzo8 at 1:17 AM on May 25, 2005
And, how do those "terrace" like row homes fit in, like we always see in industrial England movies (Brassed Off, Billy Elliott, Oliver!, Meaning of Life)?
Those types of terraces were built in the 19th century to house, generally, factory, mill or mine workers. They were often built by factory or mill owners, sometimes in complete towns, such as Saltaire.
I grew up in one, as did my parents and their parents before them. In my grandparents' day, and probably into the 60s, they were usually rented. Often they had no bathrooms and many were demolished after WW2, replaced by 60s council flats.
My parents bought their terraced house in the early 60s. It had two rooms and a small kitchen downstairs, and two bedrooms upstairs. A tiny back yard, and an outside toilet in a brick outhouse at the end of the yard.
The vast majority of the Victorian terraces have been improved, with grants from the local councils to provide indoor bathrooms (often as a ground-floor addition next to the kitchen), and are now in private ownership, popular as starter homes.
I now live in the expensive south-east of England where there are not so many terraces as in the midlands and north. They are marketed down here as 'artisan's cottages' and sell for ridiculous prices.
posted by essexjan at 2:15 AM on May 25, 2005
Those types of terraces were built in the 19th century to house, generally, factory, mill or mine workers. They were often built by factory or mill owners, sometimes in complete towns, such as Saltaire.
I grew up in one, as did my parents and their parents before them. In my grandparents' day, and probably into the 60s, they were usually rented. Often they had no bathrooms and many were demolished after WW2, replaced by 60s council flats.
My parents bought their terraced house in the early 60s. It had two rooms and a small kitchen downstairs, and two bedrooms upstairs. A tiny back yard, and an outside toilet in a brick outhouse at the end of the yard.
The vast majority of the Victorian terraces have been improved, with grants from the local councils to provide indoor bathrooms (often as a ground-floor addition next to the kitchen), and are now in private ownership, popular as starter homes.
I now live in the expensive south-east of England where there are not so many terraces as in the midlands and north. They are marketed down here as 'artisan's cottages' and sell for ridiculous prices.
posted by essexjan at 2:15 AM on May 25, 2005
Just to get the scope of this right, about 20% of UK housing is still public. But in the 1950s-70s, as much as 50% of the population lived in council housing (only source I could quickly track down is here, but I believe this is widely accepted). In other words, council housing was never just for the poorest few, although that has changed now. There's a bit of historical information here, too.
posted by cushie at 2:35 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by cushie at 2:35 AM on May 25, 2005
Another interesting point about Council housing, or, in my case "ex Local Authority" Flats; they sell at a steep discount to market for comparable properties, which I feel in many cases (like mine) are unwarranted.
I've got a two bedroom, two floor, garden ex Local Authority flat in E1, or Zone 2 for your Londoners. I have about 1,500 square feet, and can walk to either the Docklands or The City, London's financial districts, in 20 minutes. Hell, the Tate Modern is only about a 30 minute walk along The Thames.
Here in The Ghetto (as I call Stepney), my Council Tax is only about 59 pounds a month, and my mortgage payment is 317 pounds a month. Admitedly I've paid down a lot of the debt, but even so this is cheap, cheap, cheap living (I'm frugal!) for being in the center of London.
The flat was purchased as a fixer upper, so I gutted and renovated where necessary. It's fine on the inside and even though some of the surrounding estates are eyesores, my neighbours (mostly retired Cockneys) are wonderful people to live amongst and take pride in their property. Maybe %10 of the flats on my estate are tenant owned ("leaseholders"), the remainder being Coucil Tenants.
I think there is a real stigma in some folks eyes towards ex Local Authority flats. If I ever want to rent this place out I could easily secure 200 or pounds a week, paying a nice premium over my mortgage; positive cash flow I can use for the next place.
posted by Mutant at 4:06 AM on May 25, 2005
I've got a two bedroom, two floor, garden ex Local Authority flat in E1, or Zone 2 for your Londoners. I have about 1,500 square feet, and can walk to either the Docklands or The City, London's financial districts, in 20 minutes. Hell, the Tate Modern is only about a 30 minute walk along The Thames.
Here in The Ghetto (as I call Stepney), my Council Tax is only about 59 pounds a month, and my mortgage payment is 317 pounds a month. Admitedly I've paid down a lot of the debt, but even so this is cheap, cheap, cheap living (I'm frugal!) for being in the center of London.
The flat was purchased as a fixer upper, so I gutted and renovated where necessary. It's fine on the inside and even though some of the surrounding estates are eyesores, my neighbours (mostly retired Cockneys) are wonderful people to live amongst and take pride in their property. Maybe %10 of the flats on my estate are tenant owned ("leaseholders"), the remainder being Coucil Tenants.
I think there is a real stigma in some folks eyes towards ex Local Authority flats. If I ever want to rent this place out I could easily secure 200 or pounds a week, paying a nice premium over my mortgage; positive cash flow I can use for the next place.
posted by Mutant at 4:06 AM on May 25, 2005
So then the "council estates" would be the equivalent of what we Americans think of as the Projects?
From the descriptions here, council houses sound more the middle-income (housing department language for working-class) "projects" like Stuy Town, Co-Op City, or Knickerbocker Village, which were actually funded at least partly by private interests.
Oddly, the NYCHA has an annoying habit of naming high rice projects "houses" or worse, "gardens", which is kind of a cruel joke in my opinion.
posted by jonmc at 5:39 AM on May 25, 2005
From the descriptions here, council houses sound more the middle-income (housing department language for working-class) "projects" like Stuy Town, Co-Op City, or Knickerbocker Village, which were actually funded at least partly by private interests.
Oddly, the NYCHA has an annoying habit of naming high rice projects "houses" or worse, "gardens", which is kind of a cruel joke in my opinion.
posted by jonmc at 5:39 AM on May 25, 2005
Almost ... except council estates are just lots of council houses. Some estates do turn into something close to the projects, yes, but there's no real parallel, I don't think. Possibly council tower blocks (50-60-level buildings entirely of apartments, which are generally hugely grim) come close.
Ha: they do that here with the "Gardens" thing too.
posted by bonaldi at 6:34 AM on May 25, 2005
Ha: they do that here with the "Gardens" thing too.
posted by bonaldi at 6:34 AM on May 25, 2005
jonmc: Think HUD homes.
posted by Kellydamnit at 8:47 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by Kellydamnit at 8:47 AM on May 25, 2005
Response by poster: Thanks for all the great answers.
I will check out Shameless on BBC America.
Oh, and the original show that prompted me to ask this question is Keeping Up Appearances.
posted by Sheppagus at 10:29 AM on May 25, 2005
I will check out Shameless on BBC America.
Oh, and the original show that prompted me to ask this question is Keeping Up Appearances.
posted by Sheppagus at 10:29 AM on May 25, 2005
Great info everyone. I am becoming quite involved with housing issues here and this quite helpful.
Coincidentally, I just got home from a community meeting at Queensbridge, the largest housing project in NYC. The buzz word there was "development." Interesting to compare to the HUD homes of that Kellydammit describes. I grew up in Buffalo, and whenever I go back to urban neighborhoods, I keep seeing these sprout up.
Much better than the old Robert Moses/Cabrini Green people warehouses. But, I do miss the old nabes.
posted by Duck_Lips at 9:12 PM on May 25, 2005
Coincidentally, I just got home from a community meeting at Queensbridge, the largest housing project in NYC. The buzz word there was "development." Interesting to compare to the HUD homes of that Kellydammit describes. I grew up in Buffalo, and whenever I go back to urban neighborhoods, I keep seeing these sprout up.
Much better than the old Robert Moses/Cabrini Green people warehouses. But, I do miss the old nabes.
posted by Duck_Lips at 9:12 PM on May 25, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Wolfie at 3:44 PM on May 24, 2005