Can this marriage be saved?
June 27, 2011 7:29 AM Subscribe
Can this marriage be saved? Infidelity, drug and alcohol abuse, low libido, and ADD... but are those reason enough to leave?
My husband (let’s call him Mike) and I have been together for almost 12 years. No kids (on purpose) but we have a house together. We are in our late thirties/forties. We've had some ups and downs, but for the most part, things have been pretty good for most of the time we've been together. At least on the surface. We are very compatible on most things – share the same values and priorities, have similar goals in life.
I got sober more than 5 years ago. Mike has continued to struggle with repeated slips, first with alcohol and then with various prescription medications. I have been pretty tolerant and have tried to support him as much as I can. He’s been in therapy for a few years with the same person, but I’m not sure she’s helped him much. Things have been sort of deteriorating for a while in terms of our dynamic. I have felt more and more like I’m taking on the parental role in the relationship because he has such a bad memory and struggles with ADD-type issues (he was diagnosed and has tried different medications, but he abused them). Bills weren’t getting paid, so I took over the finances. I started having to remind/nag him about shit – for example, feeding the cat when it was his turn. I resented this. Mike doesn’t communicate that well, so I don’t know how he felt about it. He has said before how much he depends on me and likes the fact that I usually set the agenda for what we do.
Mike had been unemployed for a while, but started a new job recently. The new job is 90% travel. While on assignment in April, he had a slip and had sex with other people, whom he met through a personals service, while drunk, on two occasions. I found out about it because of the charge for the personals service, which was on his credit card (which I have access to because I manage the bills – so he must have known I would find out). After he confessed, I was really devastated. I was totally not expecting it at all and would never have thought he would do something like that in a million years. Partly this is because his libido is not that strong and he has had impotence issues. In fact, one of our ongoing issues, for most of the past 9 or so years, has been his lack of desire. We frequently have gone weeks without having sex, which I was okay with on the surface but underneath it all, it definitely bothered me a lot.
So right after all that, Mike left again for another business trip. I immediately started therapy myself (she has been great). I told Mike I wanted him to show some remorse, but he did a really shitty job of that. I wanted to go to a couple’s counselor, but despite calling 20 or so different therapists within 20 miles, no one would see us on the weekend (the one person who had weekend availability wouldn’t see us because Mike wasn’t in recovery – he has continued to have slips). I also told Mike that I needed complete honesty and transparency, but he has continued to be unreliable and untrustworthy.
So after a couple months of this and after doing a lot of thinking, I told Mike I wanted a divorce two weeks ago. Meanwhile, I met someone new and have been enjoying a really fun NSA fling (the other person is completely aware and okay with my situation). It’s been fantastic to feel desired and desirable again. It’s been fantastic to have someone be interested in me and show me the consideration and tenderness that I’ve really been missing. I haven’t told Mike the specifics, but I haven’t been home much. My fling is not serious, and I don’t want to give the impression that I’m leaving Mike for this other person (because that’s definitely not the case) but it has helped me get some perspective. I also have been thinking a lot about how getting out of this house and marriage would enable me to go places and do things I haven’t done, like travel more or possibly move abroad, which I’ve always wanted to do.
I feel like the infidelity was a symptom of some much deeper issues, and it was a wake-up call to me to re-evaluate my marriage. I’ve been going along for years just sort of low-level dissatisfied, but nothing ever seemed bad enough to make me want to rock the boat. Now that I’ve been forced to re-evaluate everything, I’m realizing how sick I am of dealing with Mike’s drug and alcohol abuse issues and lack of responsibility and our inadequate sex life. I still care about him, but I don’t know if I love him anymore.
Last night he emailed me with a plea to reconsider, basically begging me not to leave him. This is the first time since he confessed to cheating that he’s actually said how much he loves me and wants to make things work. I have been feeling like he must be wanting out because he hasn’t fought to keep me at all, so this email is making me very sad and complicates things. It would be so much easier to just stay with him. Trying to sell our house is going to be a nightmare in this market. I really hate the idea of getting divorced. But do I want to spend more years of my life not having regular sex? Do I want to stay with someone who can’t seem to stay sober? I have asked myself how much sober time it would take before I started to trust him, and I don’t know… probably years. What about his ADD symptoms, which drive me nuts? That’s not going to go away, but is it reason enough to leave him over? Everyone has flaws – I’m definitely not perfect. I know that any relationship will have its issues and ours could definitely be worse.
If you’ve read this far, thank you. I’m looking for perspective, especially from people who have been through similar situations. I would appreciate any advice on getting through this either way. Follow-up questions/private messages to canthismarriagebesaved at gmail.
My husband (let’s call him Mike) and I have been together for almost 12 years. No kids (on purpose) but we have a house together. We are in our late thirties/forties. We've had some ups and downs, but for the most part, things have been pretty good for most of the time we've been together. At least on the surface. We are very compatible on most things – share the same values and priorities, have similar goals in life.
I got sober more than 5 years ago. Mike has continued to struggle with repeated slips, first with alcohol and then with various prescription medications. I have been pretty tolerant and have tried to support him as much as I can. He’s been in therapy for a few years with the same person, but I’m not sure she’s helped him much. Things have been sort of deteriorating for a while in terms of our dynamic. I have felt more and more like I’m taking on the parental role in the relationship because he has such a bad memory and struggles with ADD-type issues (he was diagnosed and has tried different medications, but he abused them). Bills weren’t getting paid, so I took over the finances. I started having to remind/nag him about shit – for example, feeding the cat when it was his turn. I resented this. Mike doesn’t communicate that well, so I don’t know how he felt about it. He has said before how much he depends on me and likes the fact that I usually set the agenda for what we do.
Mike had been unemployed for a while, but started a new job recently. The new job is 90% travel. While on assignment in April, he had a slip and had sex with other people, whom he met through a personals service, while drunk, on two occasions. I found out about it because of the charge for the personals service, which was on his credit card (which I have access to because I manage the bills – so he must have known I would find out). After he confessed, I was really devastated. I was totally not expecting it at all and would never have thought he would do something like that in a million years. Partly this is because his libido is not that strong and he has had impotence issues. In fact, one of our ongoing issues, for most of the past 9 or so years, has been his lack of desire. We frequently have gone weeks without having sex, which I was okay with on the surface but underneath it all, it definitely bothered me a lot.
So right after all that, Mike left again for another business trip. I immediately started therapy myself (she has been great). I told Mike I wanted him to show some remorse, but he did a really shitty job of that. I wanted to go to a couple’s counselor, but despite calling 20 or so different therapists within 20 miles, no one would see us on the weekend (the one person who had weekend availability wouldn’t see us because Mike wasn’t in recovery – he has continued to have slips). I also told Mike that I needed complete honesty and transparency, but he has continued to be unreliable and untrustworthy.
So after a couple months of this and after doing a lot of thinking, I told Mike I wanted a divorce two weeks ago. Meanwhile, I met someone new and have been enjoying a really fun NSA fling (the other person is completely aware and okay with my situation). It’s been fantastic to feel desired and desirable again. It’s been fantastic to have someone be interested in me and show me the consideration and tenderness that I’ve really been missing. I haven’t told Mike the specifics, but I haven’t been home much. My fling is not serious, and I don’t want to give the impression that I’m leaving Mike for this other person (because that’s definitely not the case) but it has helped me get some perspective. I also have been thinking a lot about how getting out of this house and marriage would enable me to go places and do things I haven’t done, like travel more or possibly move abroad, which I’ve always wanted to do.
I feel like the infidelity was a symptom of some much deeper issues, and it was a wake-up call to me to re-evaluate my marriage. I’ve been going along for years just sort of low-level dissatisfied, but nothing ever seemed bad enough to make me want to rock the boat. Now that I’ve been forced to re-evaluate everything, I’m realizing how sick I am of dealing with Mike’s drug and alcohol abuse issues and lack of responsibility and our inadequate sex life. I still care about him, but I don’t know if I love him anymore.
Last night he emailed me with a plea to reconsider, basically begging me not to leave him. This is the first time since he confessed to cheating that he’s actually said how much he loves me and wants to make things work. I have been feeling like he must be wanting out because he hasn’t fought to keep me at all, so this email is making me very sad and complicates things. It would be so much easier to just stay with him. Trying to sell our house is going to be a nightmare in this market. I really hate the idea of getting divorced. But do I want to spend more years of my life not having regular sex? Do I want to stay with someone who can’t seem to stay sober? I have asked myself how much sober time it would take before I started to trust him, and I don’t know… probably years. What about his ADD symptoms, which drive me nuts? That’s not going to go away, but is it reason enough to leave him over? Everyone has flaws – I’m definitely not perfect. I know that any relationship will have its issues and ours could definitely be worse.
If you’ve read this far, thank you. I’m looking for perspective, especially from people who have been through similar situations. I would appreciate any advice on getting through this either way. Follow-up questions/private messages to canthismarriagebesaved at gmail.
Slips. See, that's the thing. There's got to be progress on the slips. Instead you're seeing escalation. And YES. I have been there. Anyone who's at all familiar with my responses knows I have the kind of relationship that would have MeFi's asking why the Hell I stay. I stay because he's working his ass off to make the slips less common and I can see it. I stay because I have clear empirical evidence, that he is trying not to drink, which tells me he values this relationship enough to be working his ass off to try and stay in it.
It doesn't sound to me like yours is doing that yet. And honestly, that doesn't surprise me. "Slips." It's such a sympathetic word. And this is not a situation where sympathy will win the day.
You've got to get out of the sea & walk to shore. Maybe he will follow you, maybe he won't. Maybe you will be THRILLED when he doesn't follow you. If he follows the trajectory mine did, he'll crawl up to the tide line begging & pleading and wallow on the cusp of recovery making you feel bad. You do not owe it to him to let him back even if he does make real progress; only you can decide if you are up for that ride.
He CAN improve, but only he can make that decision. And he may decide he likes it better in the drink. What he does after the first couple months of you being gone will be instructive, should you still be around to notice it.
posted by Ys at 7:48 AM on June 27, 2011 [6 favorites]
It doesn't sound to me like yours is doing that yet. And honestly, that doesn't surprise me. "Slips." It's such a sympathetic word. And this is not a situation where sympathy will win the day.
You've got to get out of the sea & walk to shore. Maybe he will follow you, maybe he won't. Maybe you will be THRILLED when he doesn't follow you. If he follows the trajectory mine did, he'll crawl up to the tide line begging & pleading and wallow on the cusp of recovery making you feel bad. You do not owe it to him to let him back even if he does make real progress; only you can decide if you are up for that ride.
He CAN improve, but only he can make that decision. And he may decide he likes it better in the drink. What he does after the first couple months of you being gone will be instructive, should you still be around to notice it.
posted by Ys at 7:48 AM on June 27, 2011 [6 favorites]
I am basing the following off of this statement:
He has said before how much he depends on me and likes the fact that I usually set the agenda for what we do.
Mike wants a mommy, not a wife. Do you want to be his mommy?
posted by kellyblah at 7:48 AM on June 27, 2011 [32 favorites]
He has said before how much he depends on me and likes the fact that I usually set the agenda for what we do.
Mike wants a mommy, not a wife. Do you want to be his mommy?
posted by kellyblah at 7:48 AM on June 27, 2011 [32 favorites]
It sounds like you have made some huge changes in your life, taking time to really evaluate what is important to you. At the same time, your husband has not been making the same kinds of changes, and you find you are looking at life differently now. When there has been an equilibrium in a relationship and things happen to change that, the others involved often act to try to restore the equilibrium, whether that is healthy or not. Maybe this is part of what is happening for your husband?
I think it's really hard for someone else to say whether this is a relationship that can or should survive. You know yourself and him better than any of us. Having some guidance in making the decision is a good idea, though. I know that I've had a number of friends that have found a controlled separation helpful as these issues get sorted out. It's basically setting up a specified time for a separation, with an agreement that you will either agree to end the relationship or live together again after the separation is over. It also sets up specific rules and guidelines for the separation: will you see other people? will you go to counseling separately or together? what do each of you have to accomplish if you decide the marriage is going to continue? etc. Having a set of ground rules takes the burden off having to make it up as you go along, and also gets each of you to have an equal part in making the decision rather than having one person make all the compromises or have to be the one to end it on their own.
I know that you tried to get in with a couples counselor, and had trouble finding someone who has weekend hours. Would it be worth it to sacrifice a little time duirng the week if you are really wanting to work on this? Again, you are the best judge of this.
In the meantime, keep support around you. Spend time with friends, continue your counseling, be gentle with yourself. You will figure out what is best for you.
posted by goggie at 7:49 AM on June 27, 2011
I think it's really hard for someone else to say whether this is a relationship that can or should survive. You know yourself and him better than any of us. Having some guidance in making the decision is a good idea, though. I know that I've had a number of friends that have found a controlled separation helpful as these issues get sorted out. It's basically setting up a specified time for a separation, with an agreement that you will either agree to end the relationship or live together again after the separation is over. It also sets up specific rules and guidelines for the separation: will you see other people? will you go to counseling separately or together? what do each of you have to accomplish if you decide the marriage is going to continue? etc. Having a set of ground rules takes the burden off having to make it up as you go along, and also gets each of you to have an equal part in making the decision rather than having one person make all the compromises or have to be the one to end it on their own.
I know that you tried to get in with a couples counselor, and had trouble finding someone who has weekend hours. Would it be worth it to sacrifice a little time duirng the week if you are really wanting to work on this? Again, you are the best judge of this.
In the meantime, keep support around you. Spend time with friends, continue your counseling, be gentle with yourself. You will figure out what is best for you.
posted by goggie at 7:49 AM on June 27, 2011
Proceed with the divorce.
Mike has had free agency for 12 years to be a great partner. Not just passable, but GEAT. He has chosen otherwise, and now you must act in your own best interests. Sorry.
Let his track track record as a husband inform your decisions, not a foxhole prayer for mercy. It's false. He'll not live up to any promises, we know this.
The time for you to reconsider your marriage expired when he didn't move heaven and earth to get sober and join you in couples therapy.
Proceed. Find a husband or partner who can be GREAT. You deserve a good life and marriage. You do.
posted by jbenben at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2011 [13 favorites]
Mike has had free agency for 12 years to be a great partner. Not just passable, but GEAT. He has chosen otherwise, and now you must act in your own best interests. Sorry.
Let his track track record as a husband inform your decisions, not a foxhole prayer for mercy. It's false. He'll not live up to any promises, we know this.
The time for you to reconsider your marriage expired when he didn't move heaven and earth to get sober and join you in couples therapy.
Proceed. Find a husband or partner who can be GREAT. You deserve a good life and marriage. You do.
posted by jbenben at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2011 [13 favorites]
I spent a while in a marriage which wasn't really bad, and could have been worse, and didn't really make me actively unhappy, and would have been a pain in the arse to leave, and so on.
I don't regret the end of it and for what it's worth neither does he, now.
Leave. Go find someone who makes you happy.
posted by corvine at 7:51 AM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
I don't regret the end of it and for what it's worth neither does he, now.
Leave. Go find someone who makes you happy.
posted by corvine at 7:51 AM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
You don't just accidentally go shopping for floozies. If he was that drunk, how did he even manage to complete the transaction.
He has ADD which he can't treat because of his addictions (I'm betting the alcohol addiction was/is a major barrier to treatment since you can't mix alcohol and speed).
I mean, what are you going to do. You get all the responsibility, he gets to shag other people. You said "no kids (on purpose)" but it sounds like you do actually have a kid. Mike doesn't.
The only reason you don't want to divorce him is because it's one more big chore for you on top of everything else.
posted by tel3path at 7:52 AM on June 27, 2011 [15 favorites]
He has ADD which he can't treat because of his addictions (I'm betting the alcohol addiction was/is a major barrier to treatment since you can't mix alcohol and speed).
I mean, what are you going to do. You get all the responsibility, he gets to shag other people. You said "no kids (on purpose)" but it sounds like you do actually have a kid. Mike doesn't.
The only reason you don't want to divorce him is because it's one more big chore for you on top of everything else.
posted by tel3path at 7:52 AM on June 27, 2011 [15 favorites]
It's already over, you're just dealing with the fallout and the formalities.
1) tel3path nailed it - you don't engage a "personals service" by accident while drunk, any more than you accidentally fall into an electronics store and buy a television while drunk. The drinking isn't why he cheated.
2) Not lost in this is the fact that YOU cheated. I'm not judging you, but what I am saying is that both of you are seriously investigating what life will be like post-marriage. It's not like he's checked out and you're "holding the line" or something. I think you've both drifted apart enough to know that what's still holding you together isn't the good things that come with marriage, it's only the bad things that come from the details of divorce.
If what you need is reassurance, I can give you that. If what you wrote is a complete and accurate portrayal of what's going on, it's time to go.
posted by Citrus at 7:59 AM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
1) tel3path nailed it - you don't engage a "personals service" by accident while drunk, any more than you accidentally fall into an electronics store and buy a television while drunk. The drinking isn't why he cheated.
2) Not lost in this is the fact that YOU cheated. I'm not judging you, but what I am saying is that both of you are seriously investigating what life will be like post-marriage. It's not like he's checked out and you're "holding the line" or something. I think you've both drifted apart enough to know that what's still holding you together isn't the good things that come with marriage, it's only the bad things that come from the details of divorce.
If what you need is reassurance, I can give you that. If what you wrote is a complete and accurate portrayal of what's going on, it's time to go.
posted by Citrus at 7:59 AM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
"Can this marriage be saved?" What's to save?
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:03 AM on June 27, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:03 AM on June 27, 2011 [5 favorites]
What everyone else said, plus -- this is your life, you know? Your one, precious life. The only one you get in which to fulfill dreams; have extraordinary experiences; be happy; enjoy sex; be in love. Plenty of people need to make compromises on they experience in their life because of obligations or disabilities or whatever, but you have none of those! You did the work and kicked your addiction and you deserve the rewards. Go grab your life!
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:04 AM on June 27, 2011 [26 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:04 AM on June 27, 2011 [26 favorites]
You're taking his email as a plea from the heart. I take it as bargaining. He's starting to perceive the seriousness of the situation, and is trying to prevent it from coming to fruition by tossing you an emotional bone. He may even really mean it, but that's beside the point. Too little, too late.
posted by fatbird at 8:08 AM on June 27, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by fatbird at 8:08 AM on June 27, 2011 [10 favorites]
This is the first time since he confessed to cheating that he’s actually said how much he loves me and wants to make things work.
He realized he might lose his convenient mommy who takes care of all the crap while he indulges himself. Boo fucking hoo. Proceed with the divorce.
is it reason enough to leave him over?
I personally have a zero tolerance policy on cheating, so I would've been gone in a puff of smoke when I found the first receipt. But that's not enough for you to leave? You made excuses for that?
I think this advice column by Sugar at the Rumpus might help you with this question. Basically she says, "Wanting to leave is enough" and I agree. You're not happy, he's a terrible partner, he cheats and "slips" and leaves you doing all the heavy lifting in the relationship and yet you're waiting for something bigger? What do *you* think is "enough to leave"?
Maybe your gut instinct, that told him you wanted the divorce, is enough. Maybe not being happy is enough. Maybe simply wanting to go is enough.
posted by Squeak Attack at 8:12 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
He realized he might lose his convenient mommy who takes care of all the crap while he indulges himself. Boo fucking hoo. Proceed with the divorce.
is it reason enough to leave him over?
I personally have a zero tolerance policy on cheating, so I would've been gone in a puff of smoke when I found the first receipt. But that's not enough for you to leave? You made excuses for that?
I think this advice column by Sugar at the Rumpus might help you with this question. Basically she says, "Wanting to leave is enough" and I agree. You're not happy, he's a terrible partner, he cheats and "slips" and leaves you doing all the heavy lifting in the relationship and yet you're waiting for something bigger? What do *you* think is "enough to leave"?
Maybe your gut instinct, that told him you wanted the divorce, is enough. Maybe not being happy is enough. Maybe simply wanting to go is enough.
posted by Squeak Attack at 8:12 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, every single time you tell yourself that a choice he made was a slip, like his dick just fell into some sex workers, or pills just fell into his mouth, you are creating a terrible trap for yourself where nothing bad he does is ever enough to leabe, because you have decreed he isn't responsible.
Bullshit! Stop letting him off the hook by referring to his drugging and cheating as "slips." He made all those choices. What do those choices say about his interest in being a loving husband to you?
posted by Squeak Attack at 8:19 AM on June 27, 2011 [37 favorites]
Bullshit! Stop letting him off the hook by referring to his drugging and cheating as "slips." He made all those choices. What do those choices say about his interest in being a loving husband to you?
posted by Squeak Attack at 8:19 AM on June 27, 2011 [37 favorites]
I think the first 3 out of the five listed are definitely reasons enough to leave...separately. Five out of five combined...definitely.
posted by bquarters at 8:22 AM on June 27, 2011
posted by bquarters at 8:22 AM on June 27, 2011
I was gonna say exactly what Squeak Attack says above. He has behaved badly for years, he's chosen to cheat and take drugs over and over and over again, and now he says he'll change now that he might lose his sugar momma. Why wouldn't he change when he was making you miserable? Well, because he doesn't want to change and he doesn't care about your misery.
I believe that nearly every marriage is saveable, if BOTH parties are willing to work hard to save it. If you really want to give it one last chance, then quit seeing your fling IMMEDIATELY and be really honest with yourself about what you'd need out of Mike to believe his remorse. If he balks on any of it -- and seriously, at this point, anything you ask is reasonable -- then head for the hills.
posted by KathrynT at 8:28 AM on June 27, 2011
I believe that nearly every marriage is saveable, if BOTH parties are willing to work hard to save it. If you really want to give it one last chance, then quit seeing your fling IMMEDIATELY and be really honest with yourself about what you'd need out of Mike to believe his remorse. If he balks on any of it -- and seriously, at this point, anything you ask is reasonable -- then head for the hills.
posted by KathrynT at 8:28 AM on June 27, 2011
Oh honey, ditch the husband. I know you've invested a lot of time in this marriage and having to get a divorce when you aren't the one who's letting down the team sucks, but there's no point in flushing any more of your life down a black hole. Once you make a break for it your only regret will be that you didn't leave sooner.
posted by orange swan at 8:29 AM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 8:29 AM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
When I finished reading, I noticed that I had a lot of reasons for you to leave but I wasn't sure what the reason for staying would be (aside from the benefits to Mike). I read it again and still didn't see them, but I think what's most telling about that is that you didn't list any other than what a logistical pain it is to leave and it could be worse.
It's really tough to make major changes to a relationship without a 100% commitment from both partners. Your situation is complicated by the fact that Mike would need to make some pretty serious changes to himself/the way he operates, on top of the changes he'd need to make re: the relationship. It doesn't sound like he has shown a desire to do any of that.
God, I don't want to be unkind here, but *of course* he wrote you that email. He's scared to death he's going to lose all that you provide and do for him.
You gave him plenty of second chances, and he disrespected you and your marriage and continued to be untrustworthy. That's when he showed you how he really feels. there's his communication, if you will.
Good for you with the fling, keep on getting out there and doing what's best for you. It will be complicated and there will be bumps in the road, yes, but as someone above said, this is your one life. Make it the best you can for yourself.
posted by mrs. taters at 8:36 AM on June 27, 2011
It's really tough to make major changes to a relationship without a 100% commitment from both partners. Your situation is complicated by the fact that Mike would need to make some pretty serious changes to himself/the way he operates, on top of the changes he'd need to make re: the relationship. It doesn't sound like he has shown a desire to do any of that.
God, I don't want to be unkind here, but *of course* he wrote you that email. He's scared to death he's going to lose all that you provide and do for him.
You gave him plenty of second chances, and he disrespected you and your marriage and continued to be untrustworthy. That's when he showed you how he really feels. there's his communication, if you will.
Good for you with the fling, keep on getting out there and doing what's best for you. It will be complicated and there will be bumps in the road, yes, but as someone above said, this is your one life. Make it the best you can for yourself.
posted by mrs. taters at 8:36 AM on June 27, 2011
It takes a really strong addict to recover in a relationship. I don't think Mike is one of those. You are unlikely to save him by staying in the marriage, and possibly more likely to save him by leaving. That sucks for you - all the shit and none of the payoff - but your life will also improve so that's something to look forward to.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:42 AM on June 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 8:42 AM on June 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
I am not sure that it would be easier to stay with him. I think staying with him would be sort of a low grade infection that progressively got worse but you could handle it because you were adjusted to having a certain level of tolerance. Leaving sounds like it would be harder because it's a different kind of infection and you have never seen it, you haven't built up any immunity, and it's unfamiliar and scarier than what you know, and hey, you might catch something else if you leave anyway.
The infection analogy is just what came to mind, I think because I thought of tolerance, I don't mean to compare Mike or your relationship to a noxious disease.
posted by mrs. taters at 8:43 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
The infection analogy is just what came to mind, I think because I thought of tolerance, I don't mean to compare Mike or your relationship to a noxious disease.
posted by mrs. taters at 8:43 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
In addition to the sage advice everyone else is giving you, let me add three things:
1) Go to an Al Anon or Narc Anon meeting. You would benefit, and I suspect the "wash rinse repeat" nature of what you hear will be very, very familiar.
2) He doesn't want you to go? Well, fuck him. He seems to have been totally uninterested in what you want, so don't get sad, get angry. It will stand you in better stead.
3) Being left to clean up the consequences of his mess may ultimately be the best thing that ever happens to Mike.
Go. Just go. There is nothing for you here.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:45 AM on June 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
1) Go to an Al Anon or Narc Anon meeting. You would benefit, and I suspect the "wash rinse repeat" nature of what you hear will be very, very familiar.
2) He doesn't want you to go? Well, fuck him. He seems to have been totally uninterested in what you want, so don't get sad, get angry. It will stand you in better stead.
3) Being left to clean up the consequences of his mess may ultimately be the best thing that ever happens to Mike.
Go. Just go. There is nothing for you here.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:45 AM on June 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
Here's what I was thinking when I read your question (and I admit that I may be wrong): If you woke up tomorrow and Mike had vanished, but everything in your life was the same, you wouldn't miss him all that much. You might even feel a sense of freedom.
In other words, you're not really committed to Mike any more, but you ARE attached to your current life. You think that maybe if you stay married to Mike, you can put up with the bad stuff as long as nothing changes.
But things change. What if Mike or you lose your job and you lose your house anyway? What if Mike's problems deteriorate?
On preview, seconding this:I think staying with him would be sort of a low grade infection that progressively got worse but you could handle it because you were adjusted to having a certain level of tolerance. Leaving sounds like it would be harder because it's a different kind of infection and you have never seen it, you haven't built up any immunity, and it's unfamiliar and scarier than what you know, and hey, you might catch something else if you leave anyway.
If you stay with Mike, there is nearly 0% chance that things will get better. If you leave him, there is a chance that things might be worse, but honestly I think it's more likely that you will wonder what took you so long.
posted by muddgirl at 8:47 AM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
In other words, you're not really committed to Mike any more, but you ARE attached to your current life. You think that maybe if you stay married to Mike, you can put up with the bad stuff as long as nothing changes.
But things change. What if Mike or you lose your job and you lose your house anyway? What if Mike's problems deteriorate?
On preview, seconding this:I think staying with him would be sort of a low grade infection that progressively got worse but you could handle it because you were adjusted to having a certain level of tolerance. Leaving sounds like it would be harder because it's a different kind of infection and you have never seen it, you haven't built up any immunity, and it's unfamiliar and scarier than what you know, and hey, you might catch something else if you leave anyway.
If you stay with Mike, there is nearly 0% chance that things will get better. If you leave him, there is a chance that things might be worse, but honestly I think it's more likely that you will wonder what took you so long.
posted by muddgirl at 8:47 AM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
As above posters said: He doesn't want to lose his mommy, hence the email. But you're not obligated to continue a lousy marriage because he wants a mother-surrogate.
If your only reason for staying in the marriage is inertia, that should tell you everything you need to know right there. You only get one chance at life. Do you want your one chance to be spent in *this* marriage, with a cheating, drug-abusing, irresponsible husband?
posted by Andrhia at 9:40 AM on June 27, 2011
If your only reason for staying in the marriage is inertia, that should tell you everything you need to know right there. You only get one chance at life. Do you want your one chance to be spent in *this* marriage, with a cheating, drug-abusing, irresponsible husband?
posted by Andrhia at 9:40 AM on June 27, 2011
You are essentially describing the end of my previous marriage. I was so caught up in worrying about how my ex would survive without me to run his life for him (and the financial, emotional and social fallout of what would happen to me after 10 years together) that I tried everything to save it and nothing worked. My ex-husband also had a job with massive amounts of travel; we saw each other 2-3 days every 6 weeks, and yes, he had women and secret credit cards and a drug/alcohol problem, as yours does. So, I do know what you're dealing with; an absentee husband whom you cannot police, cannot trust, and cannot have a loving relationship with that also happens to jointly own your home. 12 years is a long time; you don't know how to live without him at this point, and the way this question is worded makes it clear that you believe Mike cannot manage his own life without your help (see your remarks about setting his agenda, running the finances, etc.).
I tried therapy (as you are doing) and couples therapy (as you are trying to do) because I figured that if we married, it was for life. It was my duty as a wife who made a vow to do everything in my power to save my marriage. It sounds like you have done the same. Hating the idea of divorce is valid; enduring 30+ years of suffering to avoid divorcing is, however, a heartbreaking life to endure because of some stupid principle.
I also was afraid of selling my home in a nightmare market. It was difficult, but doable (I sold mine in 2008).
You are too worried about the things that will be a hassle to untangle yourself from this marriage, and yet you're sleeping with someone else (and so is he, as far as you know). You are comfortable with this low-level suffering and crappy marriage because it's what YOU KNOW. You are afraid of making a shit situation into an unbearable nightmare because you're afraid to be the "bad guy" and end the marriage, since he clearly won't do it (why would he? that would require him taking responsibility for his actions, spending money, and making legal and financial arrangements while he's on the road - why would he remove his "safety net"?).
This sucks, hon, but listen: I also didn't have children ON PURPOSE with my ex-husband. In retrospect, I've learned a lot about myself from the relationships I've had with partners I knew would be unfit parents. Why would you trust someone to be a good spouse to you - essentially, this is a person you have trusted with your life, financial well-being and general welfare - that you wouldn't trust to parent or care for a child? When you're old and less physically and financially able, is this the man you want making decisions on your behalf if you develop some kind of cognitive or mobility impairment? Think long and hard about that. My guess is he'd vanish as soon as something like that popped up, if not sooner.
My gut tells me that you believe you can survive the marriage as-is, and you're afraid other people will see you as "damaged goods" if you divorce. Rest assured that the social stigma of divorce (and even the financial implications of a painful and costly divorce) are 1000 times better than living in a loveless, trust-compromised marriage. You're dreading something ugly and painful and how it's going to affect you... and rightly so. But you can't start healing and move on from this until you resolve to divorce this man.
Final thought: You can still care about -- and even deeply love -- someone and still be justified in filing for divorce from that person. Many people (myself included) have believed that love should be enough, and that no matter what life throws at you, you shouldn't walk away from it because it's precious and you're afraid you won't find another man who will want to love and/or marry you. I was wrong; you, most likely, are also wrong. There isn't ONE person out there who is meant to be your "soul mate" -- there are many, many people, and a better person might be out there right now waiting for you. I'm not saying that to make you feel better; it's just a fact.
Many people (YOU included, I suspect) think that you have to not just stop loving someone, but actively HATE your partner to justify divorcing. Therapy taught me that married love IS conditional; Mike is no longer the person you married and now are attempting to parent. You are allowed to love him and want to keep him in your life even though you know your marriage is essentially over. You are afraid of losing 12 years of history with someone who knows you intimately, and that's normal. Please don't use this as the justification not to file, though. It's not going to get better until you choose to take action... REAL action, before he leaves you blindsided with whatever shit he'll stoop to next.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:51 AM on June 27, 2011 [23 favorites]
I tried therapy (as you are doing) and couples therapy (as you are trying to do) because I figured that if we married, it was for life. It was my duty as a wife who made a vow to do everything in my power to save my marriage. It sounds like you have done the same. Hating the idea of divorce is valid; enduring 30+ years of suffering to avoid divorcing is, however, a heartbreaking life to endure because of some stupid principle.
I also was afraid of selling my home in a nightmare market. It was difficult, but doable (I sold mine in 2008).
You are too worried about the things that will be a hassle to untangle yourself from this marriage, and yet you're sleeping with someone else (and so is he, as far as you know). You are comfortable with this low-level suffering and crappy marriage because it's what YOU KNOW. You are afraid of making a shit situation into an unbearable nightmare because you're afraid to be the "bad guy" and end the marriage, since he clearly won't do it (why would he? that would require him taking responsibility for his actions, spending money, and making legal and financial arrangements while he's on the road - why would he remove his "safety net"?).
This sucks, hon, but listen: I also didn't have children ON PURPOSE with my ex-husband. In retrospect, I've learned a lot about myself from the relationships I've had with partners I knew would be unfit parents. Why would you trust someone to be a good spouse to you - essentially, this is a person you have trusted with your life, financial well-being and general welfare - that you wouldn't trust to parent or care for a child? When you're old and less physically and financially able, is this the man you want making decisions on your behalf if you develop some kind of cognitive or mobility impairment? Think long and hard about that. My guess is he'd vanish as soon as something like that popped up, if not sooner.
My gut tells me that you believe you can survive the marriage as-is, and you're afraid other people will see you as "damaged goods" if you divorce. Rest assured that the social stigma of divorce (and even the financial implications of a painful and costly divorce) are 1000 times better than living in a loveless, trust-compromised marriage. You're dreading something ugly and painful and how it's going to affect you... and rightly so. But you can't start healing and move on from this until you resolve to divorce this man.
Final thought: You can still care about -- and even deeply love -- someone and still be justified in filing for divorce from that person. Many people (myself included) have believed that love should be enough, and that no matter what life throws at you, you shouldn't walk away from it because it's precious and you're afraid you won't find another man who will want to love and/or marry you. I was wrong; you, most likely, are also wrong. There isn't ONE person out there who is meant to be your "soul mate" -- there are many, many people, and a better person might be out there right now waiting for you. I'm not saying that to make you feel better; it's just a fact.
Many people (YOU included, I suspect) think that you have to not just stop loving someone, but actively HATE your partner to justify divorcing. Therapy taught me that married love IS conditional; Mike is no longer the person you married and now are attempting to parent. You are allowed to love him and want to keep him in your life even though you know your marriage is essentially over. You are afraid of losing 12 years of history with someone who knows you intimately, and that's normal. Please don't use this as the justification not to file, though. It's not going to get better until you choose to take action... REAL action, before he leaves you blindsided with whatever shit he'll stoop to next.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:51 AM on June 27, 2011 [23 favorites]
I don't know if you should divorce or not. From what you've written, it kind of sounds like you've moved on already.
In any case, I recommend Al-anon. It's a great program for how to deal with addicts (and everyone else) without having a scorched earth policy.
I completely understand the people who suggest ditching him completely- it's simpler, our culture likes bright lines in the sand, and on paper it makes sense, it's logical, etc etc - but I am guessing you love him and maybe you'd find that something less extreme might do. Sometimes, despite logic, ditching someone is too hard on ourselves, not just the other person, because it's painful to cause hurt to people, especially ones we love, and after all this time you surely know all the good and fragile parts of that other person. Al-anon won't tell you not to divorce him. (It also won't tell you that you ought to divorce him.) But whatever you decide to do, it will tell you how to do it in a less damaging and more loving way that also serves your own interests.
I am very grateful for the relationships of mine Al-anon has saved- not that we're still together, but we can still talk and hang out and we don't hate each other. If this sounds like something you'd be interested in, check out a few DIFFERENT meetings of Al-anon (there are some duds out there.)
posted by small_ruminant at 9:55 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
In any case, I recommend Al-anon. It's a great program for how to deal with addicts (and everyone else) without having a scorched earth policy.
I completely understand the people who suggest ditching him completely- it's simpler, our culture likes bright lines in the sand, and on paper it makes sense, it's logical, etc etc - but I am guessing you love him and maybe you'd find that something less extreme might do. Sometimes, despite logic, ditching someone is too hard on ourselves, not just the other person, because it's painful to cause hurt to people, especially ones we love, and after all this time you surely know all the good and fragile parts of that other person. Al-anon won't tell you not to divorce him. (It also won't tell you that you ought to divorce him.) But whatever you decide to do, it will tell you how to do it in a less damaging and more loving way that also serves your own interests.
I am very grateful for the relationships of mine Al-anon has saved- not that we're still together, but we can still talk and hang out and we don't hate each other. If this sounds like something you'd be interested in, check out a few DIFFERENT meetings of Al-anon (there are some duds out there.)
posted by small_ruminant at 9:55 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
he had a slip and had sex with other people, whom he met through a personals service
This is not a slip.
Can it be saved? No. And it's not worthwhile.
posted by rr at 10:09 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is not a slip.
Can it be saved? No. And it's not worthwhile.
posted by rr at 10:09 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Leave. Now. It does not sound like he loves you, it sounds like he is missing being 'taken care of' the way you do (I'm sure drugs/alcohol/ADD make the thousands of daily to-do's a major irritation!). I read this twice and I agree with, well, EVERYBODY here. Neither of you are good with the other, and excusing his behavior as 'slip ups' only allows him to continue. You cannot save everybody, and in the end you are responsible for your own self. Period. I wish you luck
posted by Frosted Cactus at 10:17 AM on June 27, 2011
posted by Frosted Cactus at 10:17 AM on June 27, 2011
It's time to make a change. This isn't worth it - you've already suffered enough, and he's had umpteen bazillion opportunities to clean up his act, and hasn't. Too little, too late.
posted by Miko at 10:24 AM on June 27, 2011
posted by Miko at 10:24 AM on June 27, 2011
Mike's being able to depend on you not to leave pretty much no matter what, and to run things, has left his addiction(s) totally free to run away with him. Your staying in this marriage is probably one of the things that may be impeding his ability to successfully deal with his issues. You are not at fault, but at this point you need to stop enabling his illnesses and move on.
You also need to understand that it's entirely possible for Mike's problems to worsen your financial position, possibly reducing your share of the equity you've built in your home (if any). There are no real upsides to remaining and you've done all you can to preserve the marriage, but marriages need two people to be doing what you're doing if they're going to survive.
I don't think you need to worry much about dating after marriage. Your loyalty says a lot about your character (positive). Unfortunately, there's nothing more you can do, and it sounds like divorce is not just in your best interest, but Mike's as well. Contact a family law attorney and see if you can come up with a fair division of assets and debts. Since neither of you have kids yet, it should be fairly straightforward.
posted by Hylas at 10:49 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
You also need to understand that it's entirely possible for Mike's problems to worsen your financial position, possibly reducing your share of the equity you've built in your home (if any). There are no real upsides to remaining and you've done all you can to preserve the marriage, but marriages need two people to be doing what you're doing if they're going to survive.
I don't think you need to worry much about dating after marriage. Your loyalty says a lot about your character (positive). Unfortunately, there's nothing more you can do, and it sounds like divorce is not just in your best interest, but Mike's as well. Contact a family law attorney and see if you can come up with a fair division of assets and debts. Since neither of you have kids yet, it should be fairly straightforward.
posted by Hylas at 10:49 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I hope you get get through my quickly and badly-written anecdote to get to the message part...
There was a time near the end of my first marriage, when after dealing with my husband's infidelity and drinking and other lifestyle choices (giving up a stable job to be in a band full-time and drinking waaaay too much), I was talking to my then-MIL about it, who then brought up my FIL's transgressions early in their marriage. She told me how she decided she didn't want to give up everything she had and work so hard to start over. And, well, he'd agreed to stop what he was doing - and though she never got over it, she decided she could move forward with him because it was so hard to be on her own. I asked her "But what about what you could have had?" and she had no answer. They're still together, it's probably been over forty years now - but for them, the marriage wasn't about love but about life. They loved each other, certainly - but the life they both wanted meant being together and getting over that bump in the road.
Our therapist at the time assured me that these things heal, but they leave scars. It was entirely possible that we could work it out and proceed with the rest of our lives together. But my husband wouldn't stop screwing around with this girl, despite the therapist asking him to abstain while we worked things out; and he told me that he wouldn't because "If this doesn't work out for us, then I won't have anyone!"
I mulled it over for about a week, then decided that I didn't want to be the kind of person who looked back on a milestone anniversary or upon the birth of a child and thought "It was great, it was worth it, except for that part where he impregnated that nineteen year old hosey mall chick." I wanted someone who'd never do that to me in the first place. I chose better the next time - someone who is fine just the way he is and it's been a really, really great thirteen years now. And my ex and his (now-wife) are together still.
But, after, the therapist then talked with me about what my part was in it all, and I realized it was this: I'd become the parent, because he'd used a fun but responsible person like me to "fire" his overbearing mother, and then he used his then-girlfriend to fire me.
What I'm saying is, while I'm sure he does love you and the panic about what it's going to be like to have lost you is sinking in with him - I think you've been fired. He may want it to be on your shoulders to leave, and in the long run, it's probably going to be for the best and it's not mean to him for you to go for it for he's had his chances. I have no doubt that there is a better life for you out there. It out to be waaaaay harder to get married than it is to get divorced, and from my own experiences, I feel for you. Best of luck, whatever you choose!
posted by peagood at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
There was a time near the end of my first marriage, when after dealing with my husband's infidelity and drinking and other lifestyle choices (giving up a stable job to be in a band full-time and drinking waaaay too much), I was talking to my then-MIL about it, who then brought up my FIL's transgressions early in their marriage. She told me how she decided she didn't want to give up everything she had and work so hard to start over. And, well, he'd agreed to stop what he was doing - and though she never got over it, she decided she could move forward with him because it was so hard to be on her own. I asked her "But what about what you could have had?" and she had no answer. They're still together, it's probably been over forty years now - but for them, the marriage wasn't about love but about life. They loved each other, certainly - but the life they both wanted meant being together and getting over that bump in the road.
Our therapist at the time assured me that these things heal, but they leave scars. It was entirely possible that we could work it out and proceed with the rest of our lives together. But my husband wouldn't stop screwing around with this girl, despite the therapist asking him to abstain while we worked things out; and he told me that he wouldn't because "If this doesn't work out for us, then I won't have anyone!"
I mulled it over for about a week, then decided that I didn't want to be the kind of person who looked back on a milestone anniversary or upon the birth of a child and thought "It was great, it was worth it, except for that part where he impregnated that nineteen year old hosey mall chick." I wanted someone who'd never do that to me in the first place. I chose better the next time - someone who is fine just the way he is and it's been a really, really great thirteen years now. And my ex and his (now-wife) are together still.
But, after, the therapist then talked with me about what my part was in it all, and I realized it was this: I'd become the parent, because he'd used a fun but responsible person like me to "fire" his overbearing mother, and then he used his then-girlfriend to fire me.
What I'm saying is, while I'm sure he does love you and the panic about what it's going to be like to have lost you is sinking in with him - I think you've been fired. He may want it to be on your shoulders to leave, and in the long run, it's probably going to be for the best and it's not mean to him for you to go for it for he's had his chances. I have no doubt that there is a better life for you out there. It out to be waaaaay harder to get married than it is to get divorced, and from my own experiences, I feel for you. Best of luck, whatever you choose!
posted by peagood at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
Two cents to add to all the sage, spot-on advice here:
The truth is, once you're really mentally healthy and clear, you will not find any of this dramatic bullshit appealing at all. You will not find the Mikes of this world interesting or attractive; you will find them pitiful casualties who don't merit any of your valuable time. You will wish them the best but you will not be willing to waste a moment on their endless hamster wheel of unmeetable needs. Better still, their careless treatment of you will be entirely unacceptable from the outset and you will not find yourself emotionally entangled with infant-like adults who cannot meet your needs.
Consider that, in addition to what tel3path said about divorce being a chore you just don't want to have to face, you may be having difficulty conceiving of yourself as a person separate and apart from Mike. I encourage you to start looking more at who you are and what your needs are and what you really, really want for yourself, separate and apart from Mike and your marriage.
Best of luck to you.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 11:45 AM on June 27, 2011 [11 favorites]
The truth is, once you're really mentally healthy and clear, you will not find any of this dramatic bullshit appealing at all. You will not find the Mikes of this world interesting or attractive; you will find them pitiful casualties who don't merit any of your valuable time. You will wish them the best but you will not be willing to waste a moment on their endless hamster wheel of unmeetable needs. Better still, their careless treatment of you will be entirely unacceptable from the outset and you will not find yourself emotionally entangled with infant-like adults who cannot meet your needs.
Consider that, in addition to what tel3path said about divorce being a chore you just don't want to have to face, you may be having difficulty conceiving of yourself as a person separate and apart from Mike. I encourage you to start looking more at who you are and what your needs are and what you really, really want for yourself, separate and apart from Mike and your marriage.
Best of luck to you.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 11:45 AM on June 27, 2011 [11 favorites]
Get out now. Aside from being a liar, a cheat and no fun in the sack, your husband is on a path to breaking down his health. Any guesses who will be taking care of his dilapidated carcass if she hangs around?
posted by Scram at 12:17 PM on June 27, 2011
posted by Scram at 12:17 PM on June 27, 2011
Oh, Ys. I love that you spotted exactly what I did. 'Slip' is just a way of describing something while minimizing it.
OP, The instant I saw you refer to his infidelity as 'a slip,' I knew that you had done the same thing.
So here's why this is relevant: As long as you're thinking about major fractures in your relationship as minor slips, you're never going to salvage anything.
posted by yellowcandy at 12:27 PM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
OP, The instant I saw you refer to his infidelity as 'a slip,' I knew that you had done the same thing.
So here's why this is relevant: As long as you're thinking about major fractures in your relationship as minor slips, you're never going to salvage anything.
posted by yellowcandy at 12:27 PM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think the question is are you ok with dealing with his best of both worlds, have his cake and eat it too, etc.? The second question is why do you want it to work. Are you ok with a less than 50% partnership/equal give and take?
I ask because I'm seeing these are the key questions to marriage happiness and sometimes it's ok to introspect, be "selfish", and ask "what do I want, expect, demand out of a relationship?"
I have it bad but not as bad as you. But that's my perspective. If you love him, can tolerate all of this, and live through it, then you're fine as is. If not, then there's lots of thinking to do. There is one thing I have learned in my own messed up relationship:
People don't change unless they really want to and all actions point to that direction. Perhaps you have changed and will continue to evolve. From the sound of it, Mike wont' and can't change. How different do you two want to be?
And like Scram said---you will always be a caretaker and his health will deteriate. It's no fun being a mom to a (however old your husband is). Trust me.
posted by stormpooper at 1:04 PM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I ask because I'm seeing these are the key questions to marriage happiness and sometimes it's ok to introspect, be "selfish", and ask "what do I want, expect, demand out of a relationship?"
I have it bad but not as bad as you. But that's my perspective. If you love him, can tolerate all of this, and live through it, then you're fine as is. If not, then there's lots of thinking to do. There is one thing I have learned in my own messed up relationship:
People don't change unless they really want to and all actions point to that direction. Perhaps you have changed and will continue to evolve. From the sound of it, Mike wont' and can't change. How different do you two want to be?
And like Scram said---you will always be a caretaker and his health will deteriate. It's no fun being a mom to a (however old your husband is). Trust me.
posted by stormpooper at 1:04 PM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
The marriage sounds like its pretty much already over, and there's nothing left but paperwork.
By the way, check with a lawyer before you physically pack up and leave the house: depending on the laws of your jurisdiction, you might be better off it you tell him to get out. Leaving him in sole possession would probably make it harder to get him to move out so it can be sold, and/or result in you getting at least the short end of the marital-assets stick. IANAL, I've just held a few peoples' hands through their breakups.
posted by easily confused at 2:49 PM on June 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
By the way, check with a lawyer before you physically pack up and leave the house: depending on the laws of your jurisdiction, you might be better off it you tell him to get out. Leaving him in sole possession would probably make it harder to get him to move out so it can be sold, and/or result in you getting at least the short end of the marital-assets stick. IANAL, I've just held a few peoples' hands through their breakups.
posted by easily confused at 2:49 PM on June 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
Echoing others, honey, you only get one life. Why are you putting yourself through this?
Take one second and think about being divorced from this person. Do you feel relief or sadness? If it's relief, then you know what to do.
posted by Fister Roboto at 6:03 PM on June 27, 2011
Take one second and think about being divorced from this person. Do you feel relief or sadness? If it's relief, then you know what to do.
posted by Fister Roboto at 6:03 PM on June 27, 2011
As a frequent business traveler, I'm just popping in to say that people that get so drunk while traveling on business that they do uncharacteristic behaviors don't last long in traveling jobs. Traveling jobs generally demand a fair amount of self-management ability, and a person who is getting drunk on the road regularly is abusing the freedoms business travel can offer, for the very short term pleasures of intoxication that would immediately be a problem at home. Far from home, that kind of behavior generally escalates to the kind of situations that are either personally very dangerous (paid sex workers sometimes have "security" escorts that roll drunk clients), to police involvement (drunk driving, public intoxication arrests, etc). Companies that hire traveling personnel have seen what happens in these cases all to often, and will cut such people at first opportunity. Prepare for Mike to be shortly jobless, again, if word of his behavior gets back to his company.
posted by paulsc at 6:16 PM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by paulsc at 6:16 PM on June 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
"The drinking isn't why he cheated."
It can't have been the immediate cause of why he cheated, because, as noted, it was a purposeful behaviour requiring him to go through a detailed process. It may be the ultimate cause of why he cheated, because an alcoholic is a different person from whoever they were before they started drinking.
But that's moot, since it doesn't seem as though he's going to stop drinking any time soon.
posted by tel3path at 3:45 PM on June 28, 2011
It can't have been the immediate cause of why he cheated, because, as noted, it was a purposeful behaviour requiring him to go through a detailed process. It may be the ultimate cause of why he cheated, because an alcoholic is a different person from whoever they were before they started drinking.
But that's moot, since it doesn't seem as though he's going to stop drinking any time soon.
posted by tel3path at 3:45 PM on June 28, 2011
Wow, I feel so bad for him because it seems he's totally taken something good..for granted. Unfortunately, I think you'll never be able to get beyond the damage that has been done. His slipping with the alcohol and meds is one thing, but sleeping around is completely wrong and taking your love and support for granted. Sorry that happened to you. It stings considering you've built a life together...but I'd walk.
posted by Yunani at 1:40 PM on July 10, 2011
posted by Yunani at 1:40 PM on July 10, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
But you don't. His priorities are pills and floozies.
Are those reasons enough to leave? Yes, and moreso in light of the fact that there are, from what you have laid out here, absolutely no reasons to stay with this boy. A poor housing market is a very poor excuse to share one's life with a bum. Move on.
posted by kmennie at 7:41 AM on June 27, 2011 [17 favorites]