Ending the bromance
May 21, 2011 8:19 AM Subscribe
This is the sort of AskMe question I thought I'd never ask. I am having big problems with my best friend of 25 years (we are both men), and I think I need to walk away. Help?
I've known my friend -- let's call him "John" -- since our freshman year of college. That year he met his wife, "Mary." Since then, we've been super-close, talking every few days, coaching our kids' soccer team, taking vacations -- you name it. While I wouldn't say I've been as close friends with Mary, we've always been buds.
However, several months ago John and Mary got separated. This was a complete shock to me. I knew they hadn't been getting along that great, but figured it was just a bad spot. I couldn't have been more wrong.
Turns out John was having an emotional affair that I didn't know about, with a woman 20 years younger. He told me what was up, and it freaked me out. But my understanding -- via John -- was that things with John and Mary had gone bad, they were both seeing other people, and everything was copacetic.
So I call Mary and make some remark to her along the lines of how young John's new girlfriend is. I figured she knew -- but it was the first she heard of it, and the shit hit the fan. Whatever detente John and Mary had evaporated -- and John blames me.
This was several months and apologies ago. My friendship with John has been strained. He is moderately passive-aggressive in the best of times, but in the past few months it's been out of control. He's stopped returning my phone calls and ignores most of my emails. When he does reply, he makes it clear that I am the one who has fucked everything up, and he is the victim.
I already struggle with depression and anxiety (with the help of meds). Since all this began, I've been overeating and drinking way too much, and generally miserable. I’m pretty sure I need to walk away, but I don't know how.
Do you have any advice based on a similar experience? Or can you suggest any resources on men breaking up with their male friends?
I've known my friend -- let's call him "John" -- since our freshman year of college. That year he met his wife, "Mary." Since then, we've been super-close, talking every few days, coaching our kids' soccer team, taking vacations -- you name it. While I wouldn't say I've been as close friends with Mary, we've always been buds.
However, several months ago John and Mary got separated. This was a complete shock to me. I knew they hadn't been getting along that great, but figured it was just a bad spot. I couldn't have been more wrong.
Turns out John was having an emotional affair that I didn't know about, with a woman 20 years younger. He told me what was up, and it freaked me out. But my understanding -- via John -- was that things with John and Mary had gone bad, they were both seeing other people, and everything was copacetic.
So I call Mary and make some remark to her along the lines of how young John's new girlfriend is. I figured she knew -- but it was the first she heard of it, and the shit hit the fan. Whatever detente John and Mary had evaporated -- and John blames me.
This was several months and apologies ago. My friendship with John has been strained. He is moderately passive-aggressive in the best of times, but in the past few months it's been out of control. He's stopped returning my phone calls and ignores most of my emails. When he does reply, he makes it clear that I am the one who has fucked everything up, and he is the victim.
I already struggle with depression and anxiety (with the help of meds). Since all this began, I've been overeating and drinking way too much, and generally miserable. I’m pretty sure I need to walk away, but I don't know how.
Do you have any advice based on a similar experience? Or can you suggest any resources on men breaking up with their male friends?
Whatever detente John and Mary had evaporated -- and John blames me.
You don't need to be friends with a dude that lies to everyone and then blames others when it blows up in his face.
On the other hand, dude, you were way out of line to call his wife and gossip about his new girlfriend. Suppose everything had been legitimate, they had divorced and both had serious new significant others, etc. - would you have talked about the same thing then? Of course not. I don't know what your motivation was, but I'm not sure how you saw that line of inquiry going well at all.
Anyway, yes, you fucked up, but it doesn't seem like you lost much of value. Hang out with your other friends and their friends and organize social stuff that appeals to some of them and eventually you'll find a comfortable orbit again.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 8:25 AM on May 21, 2011 [17 favorites]
You don't need to be friends with a dude that lies to everyone and then blames others when it blows up in his face.
On the other hand, dude, you were way out of line to call his wife and gossip about his new girlfriend. Suppose everything had been legitimate, they had divorced and both had serious new significant others, etc. - would you have talked about the same thing then? Of course not. I don't know what your motivation was, but I'm not sure how you saw that line of inquiry going well at all.
Anyway, yes, you fucked up, but it doesn't seem like you lost much of value. Hang out with your other friends and their friends and organize social stuff that appeals to some of them and eventually you'll find a comfortable orbit again.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 8:25 AM on May 21, 2011 [17 favorites]
He is angry at himself but taking it out on you. He probably sees you as the maker of all the bad stuff, but you only made it evident. Still, it's easier for him to blame you. Walk away for now until he can see things clearly again. If you can, let him know that you will not take the blame for what his own bad decisions caused, but that you'll wait for him if he wants his friend back.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 8:27 AM on May 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by CrazyLemonade at 8:27 AM on May 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
You have made your best efforts to reach out to him and apologize. There's not much more you can do except give him time to work through everything. This may take some time - months, perhaps years.
I would send him one last note telling him that you are sorry for how things worked out and that you are here when he wants to pick things up again.
Also, this is not something that you did on purpose. It was an accident. It doesn't make you a bad person or mean. Be compassionate with yourself on this one. Forgive yourself and move on. You will feel much better.
posted by Leezie at 8:27 AM on May 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
I would send him one last note telling him that you are sorry for how things worked out and that you are here when he wants to pick things up again.
Also, this is not something that you did on purpose. It was an accident. It doesn't make you a bad person or mean. Be compassionate with yourself on this one. Forgive yourself and move on. You will feel much better.
posted by Leezie at 8:27 AM on May 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
So I call Mary and make some remark to her along the lines of how young John's new girlfriend is. I figured she knew -- but it was the first she heard of it, and the shit hit the fan. Whatever detente John and Mary had evaporated -- and John blames me.
Sounds to me like you stuck your nose in where it didn't belong. I think he's correct to blame you and I'd just let the friendship dissolve.
posted by blaneyphoto at 8:31 AM on May 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Sounds to me like you stuck your nose in where it didn't belong. I think he's correct to blame you and I'd just let the friendship dissolve.
posted by blaneyphoto at 8:31 AM on May 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Yup, your friend messed up and he's taking it out on you. You've already apologized but what you can do is to leave the door open so when your friend's wounds are healed he can get in touch without it costing him too much face. In other words, don't get dramatic, don't give him an ultimatum, etc. Just let things cool off.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:34 AM on May 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:34 AM on May 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
I don't understand why you felt the need to call his wife and gossip with her.
Like the other posters said, you messed up by calling his wife and laying it all out there. Yeah he was cheating, but that's none of your business. Remember: people always blame the messenger.
I'd let things cool and let him come to you in time. When he does, apologize again for what happened and try to laugh it off.
If Wings taught me anything: It's always for the best.
posted by Sweetmag at 8:44 AM on May 21, 2011
Like the other posters said, you messed up by calling his wife and laying it all out there. Yeah he was cheating, but that's none of your business. Remember: people always blame the messenger.
I'd let things cool and let him come to you in time. When he does, apologize again for what happened and try to laugh it off.
If Wings taught me anything: It's always for the best.
posted by Sweetmag at 8:44 AM on May 21, 2011
I would back away at this point. You've been friends for 25 years and you've apologized for what you said; you don't deserve to be punished for this over and over and over. You genuinely thought Mary knew the whole story, and you thought so because John never told you differently. Sure, maybe you overstepped a bit by talking with her about it, but you didn't have any bad intentions. John is the jerk here and he is definitely taking his own guilt out on you.
posted by something something at 8:44 AM on May 21, 2011 [23 favorites]
posted by something something at 8:44 AM on May 21, 2011 [23 favorites]
He's ignoring you. So, yeah, you should walk away, but he's already walking away -- so really you don't have to do anything. Just stop calling him and stop emailing him.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:05 AM on May 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by J. Wilson at 9:05 AM on May 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
It's not your job to keep his secrets for him. This sounds like an innocent mistake on your part (she was your friend, too; of course you'd talk about this with her), based on a lie he told you. He fucked up really bad with both of you, his lies have been revealed, and he's pissed because he's been found out. I know it's hard and it hurts, but I think you're going to have to let him go. He sure doesn't sound like a trustworthy friend.
I wish I knew something to make it easier. The only thing I know how to do when I'm in pain is to nurture myself, in an "inner child" sort of way; I think to myself that WorkingMyWayHome is having a tough time, and I need to make sure to take care of her. Make sure she exercises, eats healthy, goes to bed on time, etc., but also go easy on her when she has a bad day and can't find the energy to do what she should.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 9:06 AM on May 21, 2011 [18 favorites]
I wish I knew something to make it easier. The only thing I know how to do when I'm in pain is to nurture myself, in an "inner child" sort of way; I think to myself that WorkingMyWayHome is having a tough time, and I need to make sure to take care of her. Make sure she exercises, eats healthy, goes to bed on time, etc., but also go easy on her when she has a bad day and can't find the energy to do what she should.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 9:06 AM on May 21, 2011 [18 favorites]
... and John blames me.
This was several months and apologies ago. My friendship with John has been strained. He is moderately passive-aggressive in the best of times, but in the past few months it's been out of control. He's stopped returning my phone calls and ignores most of my emails. When he does reply, he makes it clear that I am the one who has fucked everything up ...
It sucks, but this is something you can't do anything about.
I'll add that if he didn't tell you his wife didn't know about the relationship, you didn't do anything wrong. But you've already apologized, you can't do anything else to fix it.
posted by nangar at 9:13 AM on May 21, 2011
This was several months and apologies ago. My friendship with John has been strained. He is moderately passive-aggressive in the best of times, but in the past few months it's been out of control. He's stopped returning my phone calls and ignores most of my emails. When he does reply, he makes it clear that I am the one who has fucked everything up ...
It sucks, but this is something you can't do anything about.
I'll add that if he didn't tell you his wife didn't know about the relationship, you didn't do anything wrong. But you've already apologized, you can't do anything else to fix it.
posted by nangar at 9:13 AM on May 21, 2011
I think people are being pretty weird about you calling Mary. I've noticed that this is a recurrent theme in responses to relationship questions, that everyone should Mind Their Own Business.
But you were friends with this couple for a quarter of a century, if I'm reading this correctly. They split, and suddenly - because you were originally the guy's friend - you're supposed to drop the woman like a rock? Honestly. I just don't think that reflects a realistic view of how relationships work.
I also think it is hardcore nonsense when people start expecting other people to keep their secrets for them. If that's what you want from your buddies, at least have the courtesy to explicitly say "Hey, my wife doesn't know about my new girlfriend, and I don't want her to find out the details. Please don't mention it to her."
IMO, you did nothing wrong. John is having some kind of freak out and behaving pretty poorly, sounds like. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It's painful when long-time friendships go sour. If you feel able, maybe you could send him one last email along the lines of "Hey, your friendship is important to me, and you know what, I think that mine is important to you, too. 25 years is too long of a time for me to just turn my back on, so I'm going to give you some space to work out this stuff you're dealing with, but I hope you'll reach out when you're ready."
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. :(
posted by thehmsbeagle at 9:21 AM on May 21, 2011 [88 favorites]
But you were friends with this couple for a quarter of a century, if I'm reading this correctly. They split, and suddenly - because you were originally the guy's friend - you're supposed to drop the woman like a rock? Honestly. I just don't think that reflects a realistic view of how relationships work.
I also think it is hardcore nonsense when people start expecting other people to keep their secrets for them. If that's what you want from your buddies, at least have the courtesy to explicitly say "Hey, my wife doesn't know about my new girlfriend, and I don't want her to find out the details. Please don't mention it to her."
IMO, you did nothing wrong. John is having some kind of freak out and behaving pretty poorly, sounds like. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It's painful when long-time friendships go sour. If you feel able, maybe you could send him one last email along the lines of "Hey, your friendship is important to me, and you know what, I think that mine is important to you, too. 25 years is too long of a time for me to just turn my back on, so I'm going to give you some space to work out this stuff you're dealing with, but I hope you'll reach out when you're ready."
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. :(
posted by thehmsbeagle at 9:21 AM on May 21, 2011 [88 favorites]
This is probably the most or second-most stressful thing a person can go through. I'd chill and walk away but not slam the door harshly. His feelings are probably incredibly intense right now. As Leezie or thehmsbeagle suggested, I'd send him one last note that explicitly leaves the door open. I might even give him a call or invite him to [go golfing] in four months or so.
Divorce is H-A-R-D and he needs support, so it's too bad he's using you as the scapegoat. But if it makes him feel a little better in this awful time, well hey, even in absentia you're helping. Not to excuse his behavior, but I do think it's worth viewing his behavior in context.
posted by salvia at 9:28 AM on May 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Divorce is H-A-R-D and he needs support, so it's too bad he's using you as the scapegoat. But if it makes him feel a little better in this awful time, well hey, even in absentia you're helping. Not to excuse his behavior, but I do think it's worth viewing his behavior in context.
posted by salvia at 9:28 AM on May 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Divorce is a messy business, and John has made you his scapegoat, and perhaps his punching bag. Stop attempting to contact him. You've apologized for your mistake (which is the type of thing I would have done). Focus on your other good friends, and forgive yourself. Once John has his life in order again, you may hear from him. Decide at that point whether he's a good addition to your life.
posted by freshwater at 9:28 AM on May 21, 2011
posted by freshwater at 9:28 AM on May 21, 2011
I'm with hmsbeagle and workingmywayhome -- we don't know the details of OP's convo with Mary and what information/impression he got from John that proceeded it. I also have the impression it was an innocent mistake. No need to pile on him -- he already feels like shit about this or he wouldn't have asked the question.
OP, the degree to which you fucked up by talking to Mary about John's new gf isn't the issue here at all. It may have been an innocent mistake (your fuckup level = low), or you maybe should have been more careful about bringing it up (your fuckup level = higher). It really doesn't matter. What's going on here is that John is going through some serious shit, and you got caught in the middle of it. Their marriage was already a mess before you made whatever comment you made; you are not responsible for the mess. To put it another way, it's not like if you hadn't said this one thing, they would be happily together and John's young girlfriend wouldn't exist. (This is why you're a scapegoat here.)
I am so sorry you're going through this. It hurts; let yourself be hurt. Just because this relationship is a friendship, that doesn't mean it's not deeply important to you. What you need to do now is take extra good care of yourself by getting rest, eating properly, exercising, and doing stress reduction (long walks, journaling, counseling, yoga, hot baths, whatever). What was the status of your last communication with John? Depending on your answer to that question, I think you have a couple of options:
1. DO NOT CONTACT John. At all. Don't call or email. Just give him space, and if he contacts you, go from there.
2. Contact John once (perhaps an email or letter, or you could have the conversation in person or on the phone). Tell him you know he is going through serious shit. Let him know it was never your intention to interfere with his marriage, and your conversation with Mary was an accident and an innocent mistake on your part, and you are sorry that happened. And then explain to him that y'all's friendship is important to you and you want to support him, so you are going to give him space to work through. Be specific; say John, I am not going to contact you. When you decide you want to talk or connect, get in touch with me. Then proceed with Option 1.
posted by pupstocks at 9:44 AM on May 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
OP, the degree to which you fucked up by talking to Mary about John's new gf isn't the issue here at all. It may have been an innocent mistake (your fuckup level = low), or you maybe should have been more careful about bringing it up (your fuckup level = higher). It really doesn't matter. What's going on here is that John is going through some serious shit, and you got caught in the middle of it. Their marriage was already a mess before you made whatever comment you made; you are not responsible for the mess. To put it another way, it's not like if you hadn't said this one thing, they would be happily together and John's young girlfriend wouldn't exist. (This is why you're a scapegoat here.)
I am so sorry you're going through this. It hurts; let yourself be hurt. Just because this relationship is a friendship, that doesn't mean it's not deeply important to you. What you need to do now is take extra good care of yourself by getting rest, eating properly, exercising, and doing stress reduction (long walks, journaling, counseling, yoga, hot baths, whatever). What was the status of your last communication with John? Depending on your answer to that question, I think you have a couple of options:
1. DO NOT CONTACT John. At all. Don't call or email. Just give him space, and if he contacts you, go from there.
2. Contact John once (perhaps an email or letter, or you could have the conversation in person or on the phone). Tell him you know he is going through serious shit. Let him know it was never your intention to interfere with his marriage, and your conversation with Mary was an accident and an innocent mistake on your part, and you are sorry that happened. And then explain to him that y'all's friendship is important to you and you want to support him, so you are going to give him space to work through. Be specific; say John, I am not going to contact you. When you decide you want to talk or connect, get in touch with me. Then proceed with Option 1.
posted by pupstocks at 9:44 AM on May 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
Mod note: few comments removed - please answer the question that is asked, not the one you want to answer, thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:50 AM on May 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:50 AM on May 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
You've already broken up. John dumped you a while back. It seems, though, that you're having difficulty accepting that. You don't have to walk away, you just have to stop following him.
Are there any times that you "have" to meet John? By "have" to meet, I'm talking about working together, things like that. If there isn't, then quit calling him, emailing him, etc. Think of it like this; there is a clockwork clock in John's head that is counting down the time to the point at which he gets over this situation. Every time you have some contact with him, you wind this clock back up again, restarting the process. You need to leave him alone for this clock to wind all the way down.
You are not in control of the walking away part. Accept that, and you'll find it much easier to "walk away".
posted by Solomon at 11:34 AM on May 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
Are there any times that you "have" to meet John? By "have" to meet, I'm talking about working together, things like that. If there isn't, then quit calling him, emailing him, etc. Think of it like this; there is a clockwork clock in John's head that is counting down the time to the point at which he gets over this situation. Every time you have some contact with him, you wind this clock back up again, restarting the process. You need to leave him alone for this clock to wind all the way down.
You are not in control of the walking away part. Accept that, and you'll find it much easier to "walk away".
posted by Solomon at 11:34 AM on May 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
Unless someone specifically tells you not to reveal something, it is not your secret to keep. You did nothing wrong. I mean unless you called and said "OMG his new girlfriend is a KID LOL" and it certainly doesn't sound like that's the case. This is not your fault.
Having been in the dropped like a hot potato category myself - let it go. It sucks, it hurts, but he's pinning his mistakes on you, and it is for no other reason than you are there. He's your best friend - why was he hiding this young girlfriend from you, unless he had an inkling he may not be doing the right thing?
Take care of yourself, and let this one float away. Don't contact him - he knows how to find you if he wants to man up.
posted by bibliogrrl at 12:00 PM on May 21, 2011
Having been in the dropped like a hot potato category myself - let it go. It sucks, it hurts, but he's pinning his mistakes on you, and it is for no other reason than you are there. He's your best friend - why was he hiding this young girlfriend from you, unless he had an inkling he may not be doing the right thing?
Take care of yourself, and let this one float away. Don't contact him - he knows how to find you if he wants to man up.
posted by bibliogrrl at 12:00 PM on May 21, 2011
When people go through big breakups (such as a divorce) they tend to get incredibly self-absorbed. I think it's a natural thing since the end of a relationship pretty much means a re-evaluation of self. Also if there is an initiator of the breakup, that adds another layer of complicated feelings especially since it can lead to a lot of defensive feelings. The person is shifting from thinking in terms of his/herself + his/her mate, y'know? Don't expect much from John right now. Maybe down the line once this has all passed he'll have some perspective on it, but right now I'm guessing his defenses are up and your innocent mistake was perceived as a hit.
It goes without saying that in the future you should let the parties involved in the breakup fill in the details, if you are in contact with both of them.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 12:33 PM on May 21, 2011
It goes without saying that in the future you should let the parties involved in the breakup fill in the details, if you are in contact with both of them.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 12:33 PM on May 21, 2011
Your indiscretion was accidental. John's wasn't. He's blaming you for the Cat-5 shitstorm? The dude's an energy vampire and you don't need that, especially if you're dealing with depression and anxiety. Tell John why you're walking away, then do it.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 12:46 PM on May 21, 2011
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 12:46 PM on May 21, 2011
By the time I finally walked away from my lifelong friend (literally, from crib days), I'd made other friendships that included honesty and mutual respect, things I'd never even imagined possible. Having those other friends really made it easy to leave behind a relationship that had been basically parasitic all along without my realizing it.
posted by klanawa at 12:49 PM on May 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by klanawa at 12:49 PM on May 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
You can stop beating yourself up over this. This is John's issue, rather than your own. The way I'm reading it, he lied and didn't ask you to avoid the topic, but made it sound as if everyone had already accepted things. Don't write back to him. You apologized when you didn't need to and now the ball's in his court. If he figures that out, be understanding. Divorce and bad breakups tend to make people crazy for a while.
posted by Hylas at 1:09 PM on May 21, 2011
posted by Hylas at 1:09 PM on May 21, 2011
You probably didn't need to call the ex-wife to chat about the situation considering your friend in the situation was not the ex-wife. That's a sensitive situation no matter what. Add to it bringing up details that get your friend in trouble.... well it could have been avoided. But it's happened as did your friends decision to have an emotional affair with a much younger. It's done.
Perhaps in time everyone can forgive everyone, but for right now, your best bet is to relax, do whatever you like do to relax... fishing? Kung fu? I don't know I take bubble baths and do yoga and meditation....
Deep breaths, you didn't mean to hurt your friend. Be honest with yourself about your intentions calling the ex-wife and if there's anything to forgive yourself for, forgive yourself. It's sounds like a pretty honest mistake to me, something done on the spur of moment having heard big news and not thinking very clearly about how to be cautious of the sensitive nature of the situation. Forgive yourself and meditate on the fact that your friend is probably overwhelmed, hurting, guilty, and looking for someone else to blame. It's ok.
Honestly, something else to consider is that you might now be a reminder of his life with his ex-- and he might not want to reconcile the friendship for many different reasons. Chances are in some amount of time weeks/years you might be able to have some better conversations about this. But maybe not. Right now your job is just to step back and let him sort out his stuff, while you focus on finding out how to have family fun and friendship outside of what you got used to.
I'm really sorry you're in this situation. Losing someone who has been a trusted integral part of your life for many years can be really hard particularly when you feel confused about why or if you really did something wrong or what the heck just happened. Do some things that make you happy. Do you have other friends? Has it been your family and his family hanging out on the weekends for many years? Losing that is a big deal. Can you talk to your spouse about this? One family making friends with another family is a really complicated thing to achieve considering how many different people are involved in that, it's something very wonderful to have when it happens but it looks like you and your SO might want to look for other opportunities to socialize in family settings and get started building new relationships.
posted by xarnop at 1:56 PM on May 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Perhaps in time everyone can forgive everyone, but for right now, your best bet is to relax, do whatever you like do to relax... fishing? Kung fu? I don't know I take bubble baths and do yoga and meditation....
Deep breaths, you didn't mean to hurt your friend. Be honest with yourself about your intentions calling the ex-wife and if there's anything to forgive yourself for, forgive yourself. It's sounds like a pretty honest mistake to me, something done on the spur of moment having heard big news and not thinking very clearly about how to be cautious of the sensitive nature of the situation. Forgive yourself and meditate on the fact that your friend is probably overwhelmed, hurting, guilty, and looking for someone else to blame. It's ok.
Honestly, something else to consider is that you might now be a reminder of his life with his ex-- and he might not want to reconcile the friendship for many different reasons. Chances are in some amount of time weeks/years you might be able to have some better conversations about this. But maybe not. Right now your job is just to step back and let him sort out his stuff, while you focus on finding out how to have family fun and friendship outside of what you got used to.
I'm really sorry you're in this situation. Losing someone who has been a trusted integral part of your life for many years can be really hard particularly when you feel confused about why or if you really did something wrong or what the heck just happened. Do some things that make you happy. Do you have other friends? Has it been your family and his family hanging out on the weekends for many years? Losing that is a big deal. Can you talk to your spouse about this? One family making friends with another family is a really complicated thing to achieve considering how many different people are involved in that, it's something very wonderful to have when it happens but it looks like you and your SO might want to look for other opportunities to socialize in family settings and get started building new relationships.
posted by xarnop at 1:56 PM on May 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Come on guys, the ex-wife is also the OP's longtime friend and needs a shoulder to cry on and a few pick-me-ups. He probably thought he was helping to alleviate some of her pain by making a little quip at John's expense. We all do this, so don't act high and mighty. It's unfortunate that this came as a shock to her, but she deserves to know the truth, and she deserves to know she still has a long-time friend through all of this, especially since your children are playmates as well.
John's losing his best friend, his wife and his kids; he deserves to be angry, but only at himself. Take care of yourself, OP, and make sure his ex-wife and kids keep going on as well.
posted by june made him a gemini at 3:01 PM on May 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
John's losing his best friend, his wife and his kids; he deserves to be angry, but only at himself. Take care of yourself, OP, and make sure his ex-wife and kids keep going on as well.
posted by june made him a gemini at 3:01 PM on May 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
While it was wrong of you to mention the girlfriend to Mary, I think your friend is overreacting. You've apologized and he's still blaming you, at this point all you can do is accept that he doesn't want your friendship right now. He's probably emotionally all over the place and can't sort it all out. In the future, if he wants to patch things up, he'll reach out to you.
I had a similar situation with my ex best friend of twenty years. We are both women, and she was going through a divorce and cheating on her husband with a complete douchebag of a man. Ex friend's husband leaned on me for support, and I sided with him because she was acting so out of character and both of us were stunned and devastated by her behavior. In the end, our friendship ended, and it was like mourning a death. I wish I had handled things differently and been more understanding of what she was going through, but from my viewpoint now, the friendship was always more about her than it was me, and I was able to move on and build better, and more reciprocal friendships. Good luck to you.
posted by Sal and Richard at 5:58 PM on May 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I had a similar situation with my ex best friend of twenty years. We are both women, and she was going through a divorce and cheating on her husband with a complete douchebag of a man. Ex friend's husband leaned on me for support, and I sided with him because she was acting so out of character and both of us were stunned and devastated by her behavior. In the end, our friendship ended, and it was like mourning a death. I wish I had handled things differently and been more understanding of what she was going through, but from my viewpoint now, the friendship was always more about her than it was me, and I was able to move on and build better, and more reciprocal friendships. Good luck to you.
posted by Sal and Richard at 5:58 PM on May 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I agree with Sal and Richard. It's happened to me before. You get blamed for something that the person doesn't want to admit to which just shows lack of maturity and care. If they were smart they would realize you were a good friend and could have potentially helped them through a rough time. Sometimes things like these happen and it's almost like the person can't fathom their own wrong doing and they just blame whoever started the commotion. You were blindsided quite frankly, you had no idea and you don't have to cover up John's tracks.. it's his dirty laundry not yours. Hopefully you move from blaming yourself to realizing this might have been all for the better. When this happened to me I took a good look at the people I surrounded myself around and asked does this person show good character and intention? Is the friendship mutual? Am I being used? Sometimes these types of problems help you reflect. Use the time to just focus on yourself. Do something you enjoy doing. Let the friendship fade. Don't go posing it around to your shared social circle though it will just reflect poorly on you. The true colors of your friend will come out. It's their problem and it seems like they want to deal with it themselves.
It's normal though. It might help to just cut back on the alcohol and try to do some exercise instead. Try changing a few of your eating habits as well. I find when I'm eating healthier I feel better about myself and sets a pattern for the day.
Hope this helps. This too will pass.
posted by melizabeth at 6:12 PM on May 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
It's normal though. It might help to just cut back on the alcohol and try to do some exercise instead. Try changing a few of your eating habits as well. I find when I'm eating healthier I feel better about myself and sets a pattern for the day.
Hope this helps. This too will pass.
posted by melizabeth at 6:12 PM on May 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think your friend is trying to create some distance with you for the wrong reason in his mind, but he's still right to do so. He's blaming you for his troubles, but he also is recognizing that he's lashing out at you and so isn't responding to most of your emails.
If I were you I'd back way off and see where the land lies in a year. I don't think this guy trusts himself and so is trying to push you away, officially because you betrayed his trust but more likely because he may regret how speaks to you about this.
Also, I think you're looking somewhat for absolution from him and that's way too much to hope for in this circumstance. Worry about your own family for awhile :)
posted by fantasticninety at 10:04 PM on May 21, 2011
If I were you I'd back way off and see where the land lies in a year. I don't think this guy trusts himself and so is trying to push you away, officially because you betrayed his trust but more likely because he may regret how speaks to you about this.
Also, I think you're looking somewhat for absolution from him and that's way too much to hope for in this circumstance. Worry about your own family for awhile :)
posted by fantasticninety at 10:04 PM on May 21, 2011
In addition to the good advice above, I would like to point out that the narrative John is spinning is complete horseshit. He's playing this like the fact his life is a mess and his wife is pissed at him is because of something you did. That is a convenient ruse to avoid responsibility for the fact that his life is a mess and his wife is pissed at him because HE CHEATED ON HER AND THEN LEFT HER FOR A YOUNGER WOMAN.
Your friend has basically gone toxic and you would be well advised, as painful as it is, to just back off and cut ties. He may come back when he pulls his head out of his ass, but he may not. (I mean, he's off having an exciting new life; he'll probably lose a ton of weight, buy a Porsche, dye his hair and be far too desperately, sadly, lamely cool to be friends with you.)
If you are lonely and mourning your friendship, I would suggest you go hang out with Mary. She didn't do anything wrong, it sounds like you have a nice friendship there, and you both just got screwed over by the boy wonder. That's worth a beer and a BBQ at least.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:33 AM on May 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
Your friend has basically gone toxic and you would be well advised, as painful as it is, to just back off and cut ties. He may come back when he pulls his head out of his ass, but he may not. (I mean, he's off having an exciting new life; he'll probably lose a ton of weight, buy a Porsche, dye his hair and be far too desperately, sadly, lamely cool to be friends with you.)
If you are lonely and mourning your friendship, I would suggest you go hang out with Mary. She didn't do anything wrong, it sounds like you have a nice friendship there, and you both just got screwed over by the boy wonder. That's worth a beer and a BBQ at least.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:33 AM on May 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
While I think it was wrong to call his ex-wife and make a comment like that, it makes sense that having known her a long time you also wanted to be there for her. It also seems unfair that you are being blamed for something that you didn't know you weren't supposed to say.
Seems to me like your friend, John, didn't give you the whole story because he wanted to feel like he had your approval. Hence he only gave you half the story. "We've both moved on, everything is fine, I haven't done anything wrong - right?" He was looking outside himself for permission to enjoy the new set up he is in, so he didn't admit that he wasn't being completely clear with Mary.. Now he is experiencing the consequences of not being honest with both of you, and he is looking outside himself again - this time for someone to blame.
I'm not sure how this observation helps you. I guess that whatever happens, you should remember not to blame yourself.
posted by marmaduke_yaverland at 9:08 AM on May 22, 2011
Seems to me like your friend, John, didn't give you the whole story because he wanted to feel like he had your approval. Hence he only gave you half the story. "We've both moved on, everything is fine, I haven't done anything wrong - right?" He was looking outside himself for permission to enjoy the new set up he is in, so he didn't admit that he wasn't being completely clear with Mary.. Now he is experiencing the consequences of not being honest with both of you, and he is looking outside himself again - this time for someone to blame.
I'm not sure how this observation helps you. I guess that whatever happens, you should remember not to blame yourself.
posted by marmaduke_yaverland at 9:08 AM on May 22, 2011
Blaming you is a way for John to avoid blaming himself. He jumped on the first chance to blame something external and that was you. These kind of people are toxic, keep your distance, forever.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 4:19 AM on May 23, 2011
posted by CautionToTheWind at 4:19 AM on May 23, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dfriedman at 8:23 AM on May 21, 2011 [8 favorites]