Is she my ex-BFF?
April 17, 2011 9:01 AM   Subscribe

Is she my ex-BFF?

I just returned to my country after living in Europe for a decade. During that time, I would keep in touch with my best mates over email or Facebook, however I know that nothing ever replaces the personal contact, coming over for dinner, being there when you need help, etc. In short, things move on.

But I didn't think that things would change so much with someone I used to consider my bestest friend. I will call her Marsha. Marsha and I met at school when we were about 16, because we used to write The Cure lyrics on the bathroom doors. We eventually met and got on like a house on fire. She was my partner in crime - we did everything together. First night out drinking, first everything together.

We lost a bit of contact when she went off to live with a guy who did all sorts of shitty things to her, including getting her credit blacklisted and other horrific stuff. She descended into a hole of self-pity and unhappiness but eventually, with help with her friends and family, she managed to pull herself together and end the relationship. By that time, I was already leaving the country.

When I lived in Italy a few years ago, she was going to join me and bailed out in the last minute. When I meant last minute, it was really like waiting for her for hours in the airport in Rome and worried sick something ahd happened. I went back home, checked my email and found that she had decided to stay for a lot of reasons that didn;t look reasonable to me. But I think it was mainly because of her new (at the time) bf.

On her current bf (the person she lives with now - I will call him Richard): I have to say I dislike him a bit, because he betrayed her badly in the past and also because he talked her into abandoning her dream of living overseas and all the experiences she could have had. I mentioned some things about him on chat to her, what my thoughts were about the betrayal on MSN, which he later hacked and read, so he knows my feelings about him back then. I met him last year for the first time IRL and the impression I got from Richard is that he has not real aspirations he wants to pursue and that brings out all of Marsha's worst personality traits: a tendency of sticking with mediocrity, fear of everything that requires a bit of initiative, a tendency of remaining comfortable instead of chasing your dreams.

After she gave up on the idea of going to Italy, she used up the money she had saved up on a "popular" apartment to live with Richard. She could not find a job for a year or two (despite speaking three languages and having qualifications) and ended up getting pregnant. This brought them a lot of joy obviously, but also a lot of financial trouble. I offered to help them with money, but she always refused. Mainly because of him being proud and wanting to provide to his own family, which is fair. But then again, I was just trying to help out...like a friend would!

Nowadays, she is a 29-year old mother of a three year old girl, working in a junior job and still with Richard, living in a crumbling apartment. They fight all the time and she lacks energy for anything - energy to take her little girl out, looking after herself, going out, etc - and yet she feels happy with all of this because it is the most certain thing she's ever got: a relationship, a family. But she has become a person full of apathy and cynicism, fearful of everything.

Last year, I came to visit and gave her two of my books. One of them includes her in the acknowledgements and she was surprised I would do that, "given the amount of other, more significant, friendships in my life", which saddened me quite a bit. On my return, I have invited her to visit me and my husband but she has never said she would come, or not.

I told her about some difficulties I was experiencing and that I felt lonely for not having a very close friend in my own country, as everyone seems to have very different lives. She did not offer to help or even listen, or call, nothing.

I am not sure what happened there, it is all a bit difficult for me to understand. Maybe I should get over this and understand that she just isn't interested in being my friend anymore, despite all of our hisotry together. But how do I manage this situation without feeling rejected?
posted by heartofglass to Human Relations (24 answers total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
 
One of them includes her in the acknowledgements and she was surprised I would do that, "given the amount of other, more significant, friendships in my life".

Did you correct this misunderstanding at the time?

Because if not, she may have taken your silence as confirmation.
posted by rokusan at 9:09 AM on April 17, 2011 [2 favorites]


One reason she might not be interested in being your friend any more is that you don't seem to think very highly of her (or, for that matter, her partner).

Maybe you're not the only one who feels like they're being rejected.
posted by box at 9:11 AM on April 17, 2011 [15 favorites]


I know you care about the person and are genuinely worried about her, but the post that you've written reads like a list of things that you think she's done wrong. You say things like she's "comfortable" and she "feels happy" and then go on to explain why these are bad things and she should have made different choices. Who wants to be friends with a person who is constantly disappointed in them? Maybe she just wants different things than you do. You've grown apart. The two of you are not compatible any more.
posted by yeolcoatl at 9:13 AM on April 17, 2011 [5 favorites]


Best answer: It's possible that the distance between you is due to depression on her part or low self esteem which causes her to compare herself to you to her disadvantage, or to feel that she's not worthy to be your friend. The comment in response to your book dedication suggests this to me. Sometimes the way people respond to us has more to do with things going on with them than with anything we've done.

I do also agree with the other posts here which suggest she may have felt a lot of judgement coming from you over the years. Just because you had higher aspirations for her than she did and felt they were coming from a place of love, doesn't mean that felt like love to her. She may have felt that she was a constant disappointment to you.
posted by bumpcat at 9:32 AM on April 17, 2011 [4 favorites]


You sound pretty judgmental and a little condescending toward her in your description of her life and the course of your friendship with her. Do you think, perhaps, she senses that you look down on her? Perhaps the gift of "your books" and the decade spent in Europe, coupled with a sense of superiority you may project, has made her feel small ... Or made her feel that you ate lording your travels, your accomplishments, and your freedom over her.
posted by jayder at 9:37 AM on April 17, 2011 [4 favorites]


Response by poster: Hi all, thanks for your answers so far. Maybe I should have added to the post that yes, I fully accept that I may have given her the impression to her that she was a "constant disappointment" to me or something to that effect. I know that, because of my own mistakes, we may have grown apart and she may feel that she no longer wants my friendship.

All I was asking is, I guess, how can I deal with this without feeling like a monster, learn from my mistakes and not do it again?
posted by heartofglass at 9:38 AM on April 17, 2011


Nowadays, she is a 29-year old mother of a three year old girl, working in a junior job and still with Richard, living in a crumbling apartment. They fight all the time and she lacks energy for anything - energy to take her little girl out, looking after herself, going out, etc - and yet she feels happy with all of this because it is the most certain thing she's ever got: a relationship, a family. But she has become a person full of apathy and cynicism, fearful of everything.

Wow wow wow. It doesn't sound like you like or understand her very much.

In some ways I relate--I'm a driven, ambitious, adventurous person who has watched several friends settle for lives that would make me crawling-out-of-my-skin miserable. But I've discovered, over time, that unless you can make peace with the choices they've made and worked to understand who they are right now (not who they seemed they could have been at sixteen), you inevitably lose them. No one likes to feel constantly judged by their worldly former best friend.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:39 AM on April 17, 2011 [11 favorites]


Here's something you can try if she's a person who isn't overly shy in talking about herself: ask her what's going on in her life or what her current hopes are. If she still gives you the cold shoulder then maybe this is a friendship that will inevitably move to the back burner for both of you.

I had a falling out with a longtime "BFF" and I knew things had changed because this is a girl who LOVED talking about herself. After I went away for a while and came back and we also had some tenuous situations develop, things weren't the same - she basically tells me nothing about herself now, even if I ask. This isn't a foolhardy approach, but it's one sort of litmus test you can use to see if the relationship can be recovered (though perhaps not to it's former glory).

If you wholeheartedly give your support to whatever direction this woman's life will take then that may begin to mend your relationship.
posted by neitherly at 9:53 AM on April 17, 2011


There is no method to learn from your mistakes. Once you accept that they are your mistakes, you have learned from them. Take this relationship as data, spend some time in reflection, anticipate the consequences of similar behavior in the future, and recognize that behavior when it happens. That's all there is to it.
posted by yeolcoatl at 9:53 AM on April 17, 2011 [2 favorites]


All I was asking is, I guess, how can I deal with this without feeling like a monster, learn from my mistakes and not do it again?

Monster seems a bit strong, but self-centered? judgmental? entitled? Yes, yes, and yes.

What have you done for her in this friendship other than throw her a bone in your book 10 years on? Friendships are a two way exchange that require constant nurturing to keep healthy. You have been living your own life, which is fine, but without giving back to your friends other than Facebook updates and emails, which given your post I would wager were heavily weighted on YOU and very little on your friends and their needs.

So how do you learn from your mistakes? Don't repeat what you did. Make sure you are holding up your end of friendships. It's not just about having dinner and seeing them in person, but how much you give, which doesn't require close proximity. Think about what others get out of being friends with you - how can you listen better, be there for them with out judging, build them up when needed, celebrate life with them.

Lastly, not all friendship survive the test of time. But you'll feel better when a friendship does end if you know you did all you could, and you just grew apart.
posted by cecic at 9:56 AM on April 17, 2011 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I hear you on the "not liking her man" thing. Been there. Sounds like the dude is definitely a jerk/creep, especially with the hacking. However, she has chosen him. She wanted him more than you and Europe. He is her babydaddy, her life partner. She will choose you over him every single time, no matter how much of a jerk he is. Having a family with him is more important to her than you are. Sorry, but it's true. You're expendable and he's not, unless he does something extremely awful someday that breaks her.

Either you suck it up, be nice, and accept that even if she seems unhappy, this is what she wants, or just end it already. I hate to say it, but those are the options.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:03 AM on April 17, 2011 [4 favorites]


It sounds like you've just both made very different choices and that it is unlikely that you would still be friends even if you hadn't left the country for 10 years. In fact your being far away may be the only reason why you are still in touch. And yes, she'll always choose him over you and she'll never be the person you thought she could be one day 10 years ago. These things happen. Not necessarily anybody's fault. The only lesson would probably be to take people for who they are and not for who you think they should or could be.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:08 AM on April 17, 2011 [2 favorites]


It's easy to think of this as your BFF rejecting you. But it's really not.

After 10 years of making very different choices, the person who used to be your BFF is rejecting you. But since the person who used to be her BFF doesn't think very highly of her, either, that's not surprising.

I don't think you made a mistake here. You grew up. She grew up. You took different paths. Short of having gotten on a plane, gone home and dragged her to Italy many years ago, (or gotten on a plane, gone home, and let yourself be dragged down by her fears) there's not really anything you could have done to change this situation.

Maybe this thought will help:

Pretend the two of you had never met, but that otherwise, your lives were as they are now. Imagine your life as it is today, the things you do and the people you meet. Imagine her life as it is today, the things she does, the people she meets.

Do those stories intersect in any way? If you hadn't known this woman in high school, would you even meet her now? Would you even think of becoming friends with her?

You can hang on to a friendship in a casual, Christmas card sort of way for the sake of history. But real, true friendship requires something in common. And it sounds like you don't have that with her anymore.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:19 AM on April 17, 2011 [5 favorites]


I have been in almost this exact same situation. In my story, I play you.

15 years later, I still think fondly of my old friend. We'll never reconnect, nor should we.

- You and your friend went in VASTLY different directions. Give it 10 more years, the differences will be even more acute.

- Is it possible that even with all of her promise and creativity, your friend wasn't precisely who you thought she was? I ask because maybe you thought you two were totally alike. But you're not. She made choices you would not have. You have different priorities. If following her dreams meant that much to her (the way it did you) no relationship would have held her back. Therefore... she has different dreams and priorities than you. In fact, she has honored her dreams and what she wanted in Life!

- So really, this is about you coming to terms with your past, celebrating what you have now, and grieving for things lost or changed. It's natural. It's OK. Make space in your heart for new friends. (It will never be quite the same, but I promise you it's OK.)


And yes to the comments that you sound like you are judging her poorly. You are. It's not a great basis to go forward on in a friendship. Believe me, it's better for both of you if you guys go your separate ways. Find people who share your values for where you are in life now. Much better all around!
posted by jbenben at 11:08 AM on April 17, 2011 [3 favorites]


You know, you could also try leveling with her completely, making amends really. You could tell her how much she's meant to you over the years, how you fear that your own ideas of what life could be for her got in the way of you really being present to what SHE wants her life to be. My guess is you may be judgemental in other relationships also and fessing up to her that this is a problem for you and something you want to change could help. In order for it to reach her, though, you'll have to truly connect with vulnerable parts of yourself and lay them open to her so that your apology is real and felt by you, not simply a manipulative technique.

You could also say that it's hard for you to see that she and her husband "fight all the time and she lacks energy for anything - energy to take her little girl out, looking after herself, going out, etc" (but change the wording if you mention this!) not because you think she SHOULD be living her life differently, but because you care about her and she seems depressed. Tell her you'd like to be her friend in whatever way feels good to her, if that's still true. But you're going to need to honestly figure out if you want her in your life, and if so, what she brings you as a friend. Are there things you can learn from her, ways you can lean on her, ways that you still enjoy her company? If not, you may just be trying to fix this to make yourself feel better, not from any real need to have her as a friend. In that case, just let go and take your lesson forward, as you suggest you want to do.
posted by bumpcat at 11:11 AM on April 17, 2011 [4 favorites]


We lost a bit of contact when she went off to live with a guy who did all sorts of shitty things to her, including getting her credit blacklisted and other horrific stuff. She descended into a hole of self-pity and unhappiness but eventually, with help with her friends and family, she managed to pull herself together and end the relationship. By that time, I was already leaving the country.

This part is interesting, as you seem to be outside the group of friends and family who were really there for her in her time of need?
posted by salvia at 11:11 AM on April 17, 2011 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I'm not so sure that you're being that judgy and/or full of yourself. It sounds to me like you thought she'd have stayed the same--your partner in crime--and you'd pick up where you left off. But if you changed/matured/became your true self--so did she. Her life might not be what you'd have chosen for yourself or for her, but she's living it.

If you're close enough to her location-wise, why not spend sometime with her and her daughter, and maybe you can re-connect through those sorts of activities?
posted by Ideefixe at 11:25 AM on April 17, 2011


How far away does she live? If she's close enough, start calling her and asking her to do things that will work in her life, like, "Hey, I have tomorrow afternoon off, can we go for a walk with Child?" Call her from time to time, and really listen; she might need that.

You sound disappointed in her choices, which would be a hard thing for her. Make sure you truly accept her as she is now, if you want to maintain the friendship.
posted by theora55 at 11:27 AM on April 17, 2011


I think it's kind of unrealistic to expect to still be close friends with your high school BFF, especially ten years later, when you've seen each other rarely and have very different life paths. The kind of things that make us friends when we're teenagers doesn't necessarily translate to adulthood. My core group of high school BFFs have gone on to lead very divergent lives, living very far apart, but we still respect each others' choices and have been able to maintain friendships in that way. However, I don't think we'd still refer to each other as our best friends.
posted by elpea at 11:31 AM on April 17, 2011


Best answer: It's true people grow and take different roads and whatnot, and I used to be in the camp that "friendships change, that's just life," but the older I get the more I value friendship. I've seen my mother who's well educated, multiple grad degrees, well-traveled, and whatnot remain like sisters to some of her childhood friends who are nowhere near as accomplished as she. Their roads went in different directions, but they seek to maintain the bond because they actually DO have something in common--history, and it's something you won't ever have with any new people who may enter your life. I think there's something to be said about preserving that. The funny thing is you "should" be the one to have outgrown your friend, but you clearly still seek that bond, so I don't think your story is about that per se. Sounds more like your friend thinks you see her as inadequate and it would go a long way if you reassure her that you don't and that your reaching out to her is genuine. Not saying you will be best buds again, but it's worth it to try to keep people we care about in our lives. Life is just too short not to, imo. Good luck to you.
posted by GeniPalm at 12:12 PM on April 17, 2011 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Despite the fact we lost a bit of contact around the time she broke up with her ex, I was there for her. She lived in my house at the time, for about six months.

Also, the book dedication was not a "bone" I threw her at all. It was a way of telling her how much she means to me as a friend. While I was away, we talked on a regular basis (not just over Facebook). We would have long Skype chats and a password-protected blog where we both write entries about our daily lives, things we want to buy, impressions of the news, quotes we spotted elsewhere and so on. The journal is still updated, by both of us, and it has been since the early noughties as something we said we'd do when I left.

After reading bumpcat's reply, I picked up the phone and called her. I told her all about how I was feeling, said I was truly sorry if I made her feel bad at any time and if I came across as self-centered, judgmental, or entitled. I asked her how she felt about it.

It turns out that it was a mix of feeling bad due to certain things I've said, her husband feeling she is "out of my league" (her words) and therefore we shouldn't mix, as well as very different realities and practical issues that mean she cannot call or visit so often - that also makes her feel bad and she felt embarrassed to say these things.

For the last half an hour, I listened to her issues, what worries her and she asked me about my life. Then, suddenly, we were giggling and joking like it used to be 10 years ago, even though our lives are so different. It felt like there were no issues at all in the first place, all we needed to do was TALK. Eventually, towards the end of the phone call, she said that is thinking of baptising her little girl, and asked if I would consider being her godmother. I cried tears of joy.

I know I have my faults, like anyone else. But I now respect my friend's choices - past, present and future - and I hope to do my best in what seems to be a new beginning. Some of the comments above were a bit hurtful/hard to swallow, but your comments were very helpful. So thank you all very much.
posted by heartofglass at 12:32 PM on April 17, 2011 [38 favorites]


My own best friend and I are very different. She was a world traveler with a life of parties and hundreds of friends before she very suddenly started a family last year. I'm shy with a very small but tight friend network, but very ambitious with my career. Early on in our friendship, I had to learn that her choices aren't my choices, and that doesn't have to imply a value judgment. You see, she's had a lot more fun and has lived more than I have, but my professional life is on a completely different level than hers. This does not mean that one of us has made better choices, though--they're just different. We wouldn't still be laughing like banshees over silly shit if we hadn't learned to not judge each other (or to at least hold our tongues when we couldn't help it). In fact, I think we're both rather fascinated with our very different lives and enjoy hearing how the other half lives.

RE: the travel, I will admit as the friend who stayed that it's really hard. I went through the hardest four years of my life while my best friend was working her way throughout Asia. She's not much of an email correspondent (although she sent letters), so that meant that the person I usually trusted to help me through hard times was pretty much out of the picture. I don't blame her at all--we've all got to live our own lives--but it was really hard.

tl/dr: It seems to me that if you can't really accept that she values different things and is living a different life that is equally fine as yours, then yes, your friendship is over. But if you can honestly not judge her priorities even when they land her in trouble (as your own will sometimes cause you grief), then you've got a shot. It sounds like you still care, so show her, although it'll take some time.

(also: n'thing she sounds really, really depressed, so that's probably not helping either.)
posted by smirkette at 4:50 PM on April 17, 2011 [1 favorite]


That's beautiful, heartofglass.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 5:30 PM on April 17, 2011


It's lovely to see an AskMe end so well, heartofglass, and I'm very happy for you.
posted by orange swan at 8:35 PM on April 17, 2011


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