Business interaction went badly and now I can't get the responsible party out of my life. Help!
March 15, 2011 2:58 PM Subscribe
Sadly, someone I thought I could trust screwed me on a small business project they invited me to work on with them over a year ago. It was a bummer at the time, but that's about it.
They continue to seek out regular interaction with me at my primary place of business. It's a little sick. I'd like them to move on. I need insight and ideas for handling this graciously.
Have you been in these shoes? How did you handle it??
10 months ago, someone I knew casually for a few years (we'll call her X) asked me to come in on a small but lucrative project she had been offered, think a freelance-type gig. The nature of the project was well within my professional abilities and more of a hobby for X, which is why she invited me in on the gig. She needed the help.
Everything goes really well with the project, and the person who contracted the work was very very pleased with the results. Long story short - I had trouble getting paid by X, the vendors I brought in on the project had trouble getting paid. X had shown me all the invoices and checks received, she had the money and was not in any financial difficulty herself at the time, yet she choose to flake for a while on reimbursements, compensation, and such.
Yes, there were little red flags along the way that there might be some (emotional?) problems with X and her attitude towards the project, but after everything went so well, I was surprised she made her part messy at the end.
Once the job was done and I had yet to be paid (along with everyone else) I realized how bad the situation truly was. Privately, I was absolutely gutted for about a day over losing a "friend." Then I moved on emotionally in order to get myself and everyone else compensated as quickly as possible.
She was VERY cagey and avoidant when it came time to do the financial reckoning and add up costs. Again long story short, she screwed me out of my agreed to percentage. It was clear she had to perform some interesting mental gymnastics to follow through on screwing me over. It didn't feel good to experience that.
The only "confrontation" that occurred at any time between us was during the reckoning of accounts, when I stated the totals and asked why my percentage was what it was. She nervously lied about her share of the costs, but "forgot" to bring her receipts. I let it go, happy to have done a good job, and even happier to be rid of the interaction with X.
If only that were the end.
X laid low for about a month and then started showing up regularly at my primary place of business again, I guess in an attempt to act like nothing had happened. This has been going on for almost a year now. I'm polite, but distant. This person is no longer in my trusted circle.
At first I got it. Now, not so much. I thought she'd assuage her guilt and eventually drop off with the drop by's. No such luck!
I feel like she's committed to playing out some sick dynamic or unconscious script. If I had to guess, it seems as though she didn't get me to blow up about the money way back when, so she's still seeking that emotional pay-off of DRAMA. It's been so long now, though, I seriously doubt she's self-aware about any of this. She's obviously twisted and insecure. From my end, I don't enjoy being continuously baited, even if I never fall for it. It's repellant and awful to watch. I don't like participating in this game, even as a passive player.
I want to find the magic perspective or switch or attitude that will make this person get bored and go away.
Humiliating her (as easy at it might be to accomplish) is not an option because I think that's exactly what she's going for here. In the process, I might end up humiliating myself, and my answer to that is: No, Thank You.
If anyone out there has any experience with a situation like this, I'd love your help! I don't regret any of my conduct or choices thus far, but it's clear I'm not getting the result I'm after.
Thanks for your help!
10 months ago, someone I knew casually for a few years (we'll call her X) asked me to come in on a small but lucrative project she had been offered, think a freelance-type gig. The nature of the project was well within my professional abilities and more of a hobby for X, which is why she invited me in on the gig. She needed the help.
Everything goes really well with the project, and the person who contracted the work was very very pleased with the results. Long story short - I had trouble getting paid by X, the vendors I brought in on the project had trouble getting paid. X had shown me all the invoices and checks received, she had the money and was not in any financial difficulty herself at the time, yet she choose to flake for a while on reimbursements, compensation, and such.
Yes, there were little red flags along the way that there might be some (emotional?) problems with X and her attitude towards the project, but after everything went so well, I was surprised she made her part messy at the end.
Once the job was done and I had yet to be paid (along with everyone else) I realized how bad the situation truly was. Privately, I was absolutely gutted for about a day over losing a "friend." Then I moved on emotionally in order to get myself and everyone else compensated as quickly as possible.
She was VERY cagey and avoidant when it came time to do the financial reckoning and add up costs. Again long story short, she screwed me out of my agreed to percentage. It was clear she had to perform some interesting mental gymnastics to follow through on screwing me over. It didn't feel good to experience that.
The only "confrontation" that occurred at any time between us was during the reckoning of accounts, when I stated the totals and asked why my percentage was what it was. She nervously lied about her share of the costs, but "forgot" to bring her receipts. I let it go, happy to have done a good job, and even happier to be rid of the interaction with X.
If only that were the end.
X laid low for about a month and then started showing up regularly at my primary place of business again, I guess in an attempt to act like nothing had happened. This has been going on for almost a year now. I'm polite, but distant. This person is no longer in my trusted circle.
At first I got it. Now, not so much. I thought she'd assuage her guilt and eventually drop off with the drop by's. No such luck!
I feel like she's committed to playing out some sick dynamic or unconscious script. If I had to guess, it seems as though she didn't get me to blow up about the money way back when, so she's still seeking that emotional pay-off of DRAMA. It's been so long now, though, I seriously doubt she's self-aware about any of this. She's obviously twisted and insecure. From my end, I don't enjoy being continuously baited, even if I never fall for it. It's repellant and awful to watch. I don't like participating in this game, even as a passive player.
I want to find the magic perspective or switch or attitude that will make this person get bored and go away.
Humiliating her (as easy at it might be to accomplish) is not an option because I think that's exactly what she's going for here. In the process, I might end up humiliating myself, and my answer to that is: No, Thank You.
If anyone out there has any experience with a situation like this, I'd love your help! I don't regret any of my conduct or choices thus far, but it's clear I'm not getting the result I'm after.
Thanks for your help!
I agree she's hanging around because she is emotionally not done yet. Whether she would agree that she owes you money or not she seems to feel guilty about the situation. I don't dare to guess if she's trying to get forgiven, or trying to get yelled at so she can apologize, or trying to get yelled at so she can present more evidence and vindicate herself. That is very much her problem. It stinks that you have to endure her hanging around while she figures out what she wants from you.
I'm really impressed at your restraint and graciousness. However, restraint and graciousness are not the tools that will make an underhanded former friend and business associate suddenly go away. The most you can hope for is that she decides you're not worth cultivating, or of no use to her.
If you wanted to hang up the restraint and graciousness in favor of petty passive-aggressive digs, ask her how her business is going. Ask her if she's made it into the black on any of her projects lately. Ask her if she's found any cheap contractors to help her with (your skills). Suggest she try Craigslist, though those people aren't always honest. Smile.
posted by aimedwander at 3:21 PM on March 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm really impressed at your restraint and graciousness. However, restraint and graciousness are not the tools that will make an underhanded former friend and business associate suddenly go away. The most you can hope for is that she decides you're not worth cultivating, or of no use to her.
If you wanted to hang up the restraint and graciousness in favor of petty passive-aggressive digs, ask her how her business is going. Ask her if she's made it into the black on any of her projects lately. Ask her if she's found any cheap contractors to help her with (your skills). Suggest she try Craigslist, though those people aren't always honest. Smile.
posted by aimedwander at 3:21 PM on March 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
Did all the vendors get paid? If not, you could always bring that up as well? And I'm in agreement with Burhanistan--ask about the percentage owed. You can always be all concerned and helpful about her receipts and dizziness at accounting. I think it's sort of more fun, in a sick way, to treat these people as though they're too dumb to be able to do this by themselves. Offer to add up the numbers for her, etc.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:22 PM on March 15, 2011
posted by Ideefixe at 3:22 PM on March 15, 2011
I feel like she's committed to playing out some sick dynamic or unconscious script. If I had to guess, it seems as though she didn't get me to blow up about the money way back when, so she's still seeking that emotional pay-off of DRAMA. It's been so long now, though, I seriously doubt she's self-aware about any of this. She's obviously twisted and insecure. From my end, I don't enjoy being continuously baited, even if I never fall for it. It's repellant and awful to watch. I don't like participating in this game, even as a passive player.
This is going to be harsh, and for that I apologize. Reading your account of this affair, however, there are about two dozen places where you ought to stick in, in bold italics and preceded by ellipses, the phrase "in my mind." like so: "she nervously lied . . .in my mind." Or: "she's still seeking that emotional payoff. . . In my mind." Because what appears to have happenned in external observable reality is that you acted a touch sniffy when it came time to divvy the fee, and have said dick about it since. So....probably she's still hanging around because she thinks you're still friends. You might want to, y'know, mention out loud that you hate her guts if you want her to get that. Or perhaps say something like, "I've been reluctant to bring this up, but I was upset by the way you handled Project X, and, at least for me, things haven't quite been the same between us since. Frankly, I don't think they ever will be, and I'm afraid I don't want to continue this acquaintance."
I mean, I dunno, I'm sure we don't have all the backstory, and perhaps you have good reason to think she knows your feelings. But if so you haven't mentioned it.
posted by Diablevert at 3:35 PM on March 15, 2011 [20 favorites]
This is going to be harsh, and for that I apologize. Reading your account of this affair, however, there are about two dozen places where you ought to stick in, in bold italics and preceded by ellipses, the phrase "in my mind." like so: "she nervously lied . . .in my mind." Or: "she's still seeking that emotional payoff. . . In my mind." Because what appears to have happenned in external observable reality is that you acted a touch sniffy when it came time to divvy the fee, and have said dick about it since. So....probably she's still hanging around because she thinks you're still friends. You might want to, y'know, mention out loud that you hate her guts if you want her to get that. Or perhaps say something like, "I've been reluctant to bring this up, but I was upset by the way you handled Project X, and, at least for me, things haven't quite been the same between us since. Frankly, I don't think they ever will be, and I'm afraid I don't want to continue this acquaintance."
I mean, I dunno, I'm sure we don't have all the backstory, and perhaps you have good reason to think she knows your feelings. But if so you haven't mentioned it.
posted by Diablevert at 3:35 PM on March 15, 2011 [20 favorites]
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. It sucked, and was confusing, and hurt me both financially and emotionally. I know where you're at.
Having come through it I would say, take some time for yourself and decide what is your #1 ideal outcome here. Be honest with yourself.
Do you really just want her to stop showing up at your work? Like if she moved to a different state tomorrow, and neither of you ever said a word to each other, but suddenly she was gone - would that be a relief, or kind of annoying, like an itch that you'll never be able to properly scratch?
Conversely, if you could find it in yourself to forgive her, would she offer you value in the future? Either as a business contact, or as a social acquaintance? If the relationship were to be repaired, would you be happy with that?
What I'm getting at is, you need to sort out whether or not YOU need more closure here. The answer to that will help inform the solution you implement.
posted by ErikaB at 3:47 PM on March 15, 2011
Having come through it I would say, take some time for yourself and decide what is your #1 ideal outcome here. Be honest with yourself.
Do you really just want her to stop showing up at your work? Like if she moved to a different state tomorrow, and neither of you ever said a word to each other, but suddenly she was gone - would that be a relief, or kind of annoying, like an itch that you'll never be able to properly scratch?
Conversely, if you could find it in yourself to forgive her, would she offer you value in the future? Either as a business contact, or as a social acquaintance? If the relationship were to be repaired, would you be happy with that?
What I'm getting at is, you need to sort out whether or not YOU need more closure here. The answer to that will help inform the solution you implement.
posted by ErikaB at 3:47 PM on March 15, 2011
I would try to ignore the theatrical aspects of the situation, and just make it about the $$$...it's perfectly normal to be put off by non-payment.
posted by lobstah at 3:47 PM on March 15, 2011
posted by lobstah at 3:47 PM on March 15, 2011
Ask her for the money she owes you every time she shows up. She obviously doesn't want to give it to you, so perhaps she'll stop showing up when she realises that you're going to keep asking her for it.
Or you could straight up ask her what it is that she keeps showing up for. Unless she's buying a product or service that you offer, she's not got much justification to keep hanging about.
If she does cause some DRAMA when you ask her what is going on, remain completely calm. People will look, which is what she wants, but they'll see her getting upset and showing herself up, which is useful to you.
posted by Solomon at 3:55 PM on March 15, 2011
Or you could straight up ask her what it is that she keeps showing up for. Unless she's buying a product or service that you offer, she's not got much justification to keep hanging about.
If she does cause some DRAMA when you ask her what is going on, remain completely calm. People will look, which is what she wants, but they'll see her getting upset and showing herself up, which is useful to you.
posted by Solomon at 3:55 PM on March 15, 2011
Just address her dispassionately with zero anger or drama or hurt and lay it on the line in a way that really doesn't leave her anywhere to go. Something like:
"Susan, I don't dislike you but we're certainly not friends. Is there a point to this visit?"
posted by DarlingBri at 4:06 PM on March 15, 2011 [3 favorites]
"Susan, I don't dislike you but we're certainly not friends. Is there a point to this visit?"
posted by DarlingBri at 4:06 PM on March 15, 2011 [3 favorites]
I thought you knew her casually? I'd just explain that you have lingering issues over Project X and that you don't have time during the work day to deal with issues from a business relationship that aren't related to your current employment. And just because people sometimes pay up, if she wants to meet after work, just tell her, "I don't know. I don't think I was treated fairly, and until that's resolved, it's going to be a problem."
posted by Hylas at 4:32 PM on March 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Hylas at 4:32 PM on March 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you work in an office, start saying "I have to go make some copies/do some filing/return a phone call" and walk away. In a retail or other public space, do something busy. Leave some filing at the front desk or make a phone call, or go help a customer. Don't say "Nice to see you, See you later" or anything cordial beyond Hello and Goodbye. Treat her like a customer. In retail you can easily say "What can I help you find today?" In an office you can say "Was there something you needed today?" You can always say "I'm pretty busy at the moment."
If she asks why you're no longer friendly, tell her the polite truth "That project I did for you created problems with vendors it took me a long time to build relationships with, and your bookkeeping on my share was really late and had a bad feel to it. I don't think we should work together."
I think you've decided you'll never collect on the percentage, and I think you're right. No sense flaming her; you never know where people will land, and being coolly polite should make it clear that you know, and she knows, that she behaved badly, and that you've written her off as a bad debt, quite literally.
posted by theora55 at 4:57 PM on March 15, 2011 [11 favorites]
If she asks why you're no longer friendly, tell her the polite truth "That project I did for you created problems with vendors it took me a long time to build relationships with, and your bookkeeping on my share was really late and had a bad feel to it. I don't think we should work together."
I think you've decided you'll never collect on the percentage, and I think you're right. No sense flaming her; you never know where people will land, and being coolly polite should make it clear that you know, and she knows, that she behaved badly, and that you've written her off as a bad debt, quite literally.
posted by theora55 at 4:57 PM on March 15, 2011 [11 favorites]
Don't bother making much small talk, act busy. I don't know why she's seeking your time & attention but just don't give it to her. Plus you can do the above while still being perfectly polite.
posted by Neekee at 5:08 PM on March 15, 2011
posted by Neekee at 5:08 PM on March 15, 2011
Diablevert made a great point; it does seem as if you're trying to "mindread" X's intentions. You don't know why she keeps coming around because you haven't bothered to ask her. Frankly, I don't blame you -- once bitten, twice shy is completely understandable in this situation -- you're under no obligation to continue a relationship with this person, business or otherwise.
You said:
I want to find the magic perspective or switch or attitude that will make this person get bored and go away.
The "magic" attitude that will make her go away is ignoring her; don't be friendly, don't be gracious, and don't be rude. If she's a customer, ask one of your co-workers to handle her or if that's not possible, you do it yourself, wearing your best icily, distant customer service face. Do not engage in any small talk, no matter how awkward it feels. If she's playing some sort of sick mind game as you suspect, she'll soon get bored that she isn't able to get a rise out of you and if she's hanging around under the delusion that you two might rekindle your friendship, she'll soon get the hint that you want nothing to do with her. Either way, she'll get bored and stop bothering you. Win!
(Don't let her know that you're still miffed about the old business deal because that'll just give her an excuse to cause DRAMA at your workplace.)
posted by LuckySeven~ at 5:50 PM on March 15, 2011
You said:
I want to find the magic perspective or switch or attitude that will make this person get bored and go away.
The "magic" attitude that will make her go away is ignoring her; don't be friendly, don't be gracious, and don't be rude. If she's a customer, ask one of your co-workers to handle her or if that's not possible, you do it yourself, wearing your best icily, distant customer service face. Do not engage in any small talk, no matter how awkward it feels. If she's playing some sort of sick mind game as you suspect, she'll soon get bored that she isn't able to get a rise out of you and if she's hanging around under the delusion that you two might rekindle your friendship, she'll soon get the hint that you want nothing to do with her. Either way, she'll get bored and stop bothering you. Win!
(Don't let her know that you're still miffed about the old business deal because that'll just give her an excuse to cause DRAMA at your workplace.)
posted by LuckySeven~ at 5:50 PM on March 15, 2011
The best way is the shortest. Say "I'd rather not" or "I don't think so."
posted by KRS at 7:35 PM on March 15, 2011
posted by KRS at 7:35 PM on March 15, 2011
"So, X, next time you pop in please bring a check, OK? Great! Looking forward to it."
posted by trinity8-director at 9:29 PM on March 15, 2011
posted by trinity8-director at 9:29 PM on March 15, 2011
"So, X, next time you pop in please bring a check, OK? Great! Looking forward to it."
Yes! Why not do this? be straightforward. Tell her she owes you money from the previous project (if what you say is true, she does), and say you have no desire to work with her in the future unless she pays up. the worst that can happen is she'll never show up again, and the best case scenario is she'll bring you a check and never show up again. Or ask you to work on another project, which you can then politely refuse.
posted by ghostbikes at 8:57 AM on March 16, 2011
Yes! Why not do this? be straightforward. Tell her she owes you money from the previous project (if what you say is true, she does), and say you have no desire to work with her in the future unless she pays up. the worst that can happen is she'll never show up again, and the best case scenario is she'll bring you a check and never show up again. Or ask you to work on another project, which you can then politely refuse.
posted by ghostbikes at 8:57 AM on March 16, 2011
She nervously lied about her share of the costs, but "forgot" to bring her receipts. I let it go
I probably would have handled it the same way, and like you, I choose to do business with people who just do, the right, thing. But I now believe that the appropriate thing to do at this point (assuming there were enough details in your story-summarizing for me to have an informed opinion here) would have been to say "oh. well, I'll take this for now. you can just scan those and send them over to me" or something that indicated that you weren't done. In my experience, saying "okay" to someone else while internally saying "I guess you're just a [lying scumbag] then" leads to miscommunications where they think you're okay with something you're not. At this point, your choices seem to be avoiding her or fessing up. For the latter, theora55 has a great script.
posted by salvia at 7:27 PM on March 17, 2011
I probably would have handled it the same way, and like you, I choose to do business with people who just do, the right, thing. But I now believe that the appropriate thing to do at this point (assuming there were enough details in your story-summarizing for me to have an informed opinion here) would have been to say "oh. well, I'll take this for now. you can just scan those and send them over to me" or something that indicated that you weren't done. In my experience, saying "okay" to someone else while internally saying "I guess you're just a [lying scumbag] then" leads to miscommunications where they think you're okay with something you're not. At this point, your choices seem to be avoiding her or fessing up. For the latter, theora55 has a great script.
posted by salvia at 7:27 PM on March 17, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you don't want her to come anymore, can you tell us more about your "place of business?" Maybe we can recommend some techniques for getting her to stay away. Easier to do if you share an office with others, harder to do if you own a storefront.
posted by circular at 3:20 PM on March 15, 2011