Is this Motorcycle Academy being unreasonable?
February 5, 2011 12:45 PM Subscribe
I signed up for a Motorcycle RiderCourse through a local academy and realized I was not able to make the date I had signed up for. They offer no course changes (even for a fee) and if you miss your scheduled date they give you 90 days to get in a class via stand-by. I've tried more than ten times to get in a class via standby and I wasn't each time. Their policy says no refunds, and even politely e-mailing the academy owner, she offers no sympathy and says getting into stand-by is not a guarantee. Are they being unreasonable? If they won't accept my request for a refund should I go through the chargeback route?
I know I'm an idiot for not double checking the RiderCourse date I was signing up for, but I tried contacting the academy to let them know of my error before any classes began. To which their response was "sorry, you'll have to try stand-by if you miss the class you signed up for."
Despite this, I was able to make the classroom portion and I told the instructors of my situation. They said that it was easy to get into stand-by, and that I should not be worried. This was back in November. They have classes at 6:30am, 7am, 12pm, and 12:30pm. At first, I was only trying to get into the afternoon classes in November and December, and they would always be full so I was not able to get in.
Then February nears, and I realize my 90 period for getting into the standby class is drawing close. So one weekend I get my ass up at 5:30am, go and try every single available class that weekend. No dice. In fact, there WERE a few open spots during the 6:30am class, but there were four other people trying to get into stand-by as I were. They try to make it fair by having a lottery. I've lost out on this lottery more than three other times.
In fact, their policy used to be "first come first served" for standbys, until people literally camped out at the motorcycle site 8pm the night before and the police wouldn't allow that so they changed it to the lottery policy.
Today yet again I tried all four times, to be out of luck trying to get into a class. I politely e-mailed the owner of the academy of my situation, to which she responds that there is no guarantee that I would get in by standby within 90 days, and there were a few weekends before that there were open spots. Effectively dodging the situation in which I would lose the $250 I paid for the course.
I'm rather annoyed at this point, I've sacrificed so many Saturdays trying to get into classes, not to mention gas in driving around to the two different locations to get into class to no avail. I know I'm in the wrong by accidentally signing up for the wrong date in the first place, but really, I feel this is kind of ridiculous.
Do I have any rights? They say "no refunds, no course changes" on their website, yet I when I paid for the course there was no warning of that, and I never signed a paper acknowledging this. I have a feeling if I ask for a refund, I will be denied, but I will try anyway if it comes to that.
Is this good enough grounds for a charge-back as I never got the service I paid for? I even looked up other local academies to see what their policies were for reference, and while they said no refunds, they allowed course changes for $25 (which I totally find reasonable and would have done if I had the option to). Is my time and $250 all lost? What should I do?
I know I'm an idiot for not double checking the RiderCourse date I was signing up for, but I tried contacting the academy to let them know of my error before any classes began. To which their response was "sorry, you'll have to try stand-by if you miss the class you signed up for."
Despite this, I was able to make the classroom portion and I told the instructors of my situation. They said that it was easy to get into stand-by, and that I should not be worried. This was back in November. They have classes at 6:30am, 7am, 12pm, and 12:30pm. At first, I was only trying to get into the afternoon classes in November and December, and they would always be full so I was not able to get in.
Then February nears, and I realize my 90 period for getting into the standby class is drawing close. So one weekend I get my ass up at 5:30am, go and try every single available class that weekend. No dice. In fact, there WERE a few open spots during the 6:30am class, but there were four other people trying to get into stand-by as I were. They try to make it fair by having a lottery. I've lost out on this lottery more than three other times.
In fact, their policy used to be "first come first served" for standbys, until people literally camped out at the motorcycle site 8pm the night before and the police wouldn't allow that so they changed it to the lottery policy.
Today yet again I tried all four times, to be out of luck trying to get into a class. I politely e-mailed the owner of the academy of my situation, to which she responds that there is no guarantee that I would get in by standby within 90 days, and there were a few weekends before that there were open spots. Effectively dodging the situation in which I would lose the $250 I paid for the course.
I'm rather annoyed at this point, I've sacrificed so many Saturdays trying to get into classes, not to mention gas in driving around to the two different locations to get into class to no avail. I know I'm in the wrong by accidentally signing up for the wrong date in the first place, but really, I feel this is kind of ridiculous.
Do I have any rights? They say "no refunds, no course changes" on their website, yet I when I paid for the course there was no warning of that, and I never signed a paper acknowledging this. I have a feeling if I ask for a refund, I will be denied, but I will try anyway if it comes to that.
Is this good enough grounds for a charge-back as I never got the service I paid for? I even looked up other local academies to see what their policies were for reference, and while they said no refunds, they allowed course changes for $25 (which I totally find reasonable and would have done if I had the option to). Is my time and $250 all lost? What should I do?
I can't see why you think you deserve your money back. You did the classroom part. The mistake was yours. The policy is clear. You waited until the very end of your 90-day period to even try getting in on standby. This is, from my perspective, all on you.
Instead of trying to solve the problem by force (which is unlikely to work), I suggest you throw yourself on the school's mercy and ask for an extension to the 90-day limit. You can say that you didn't realize how hard it would be to get in on standby. Be nice. The school has no reason to cooperate if you imply that this circumstance is in any way their fault.
posted by jon1270 at 12:55 PM on February 5, 2011
Instead of trying to solve the problem by force (which is unlikely to work), I suggest you throw yourself on the school's mercy and ask for an extension to the 90-day limit. You can say that you didn't realize how hard it would be to get in on standby. Be nice. The school has no reason to cooperate if you imply that this circumstance is in any way their fault.
posted by jon1270 at 12:55 PM on February 5, 2011
Response by poster: I've already e-mailed the school about getting an extension of the 90-day policy. Believe me, I really just want to get the course over with. But wanting to learn motorcycle, then being beaten down going out to the locations 10+ times just wears on you.
I haven't been sitting around doing nothing for the first two months, I've been constantly trying. It doesn't help that I was out of town for a third of December, but it is what it is.
I guess I'm just airing out my frustrations as anyone would be frustrated to see $250 gone even if it was their own mistake.
posted by xtine at 1:02 PM on February 5, 2011
I haven't been sitting around doing nothing for the first two months, I've been constantly trying. It doesn't help that I was out of town for a third of December, but it is what it is.
I guess I'm just airing out my frustrations as anyone would be frustrated to see $250 gone even if it was their own mistake.
posted by xtine at 1:02 PM on February 5, 2011
there were a few weekends before that there were open spots
Is there some reason why you can't claim one of those open spots in advance? In any case, my experience is that these classes fill up notoriously fast, but I'm in an area of the country with a short outdoor riding season. It sounds like you got some of you $250 value if you were able to attend the classroom sessions. Can you suggest paying a reduced fee to do the riding portion only since, if I understand correctly, you will have completed the classroom time? The place I did my MST broke classes into two (independently scheduled) sections like that. I think your grounds for a charge back are pretty thin given that they did deliver on their part of the bargain and you were the one unable to attend the course date you agreed to.
posted by Yoshimi Battles at 1:02 PM on February 5, 2011
Is there some reason why you can't claim one of those open spots in advance? In any case, my experience is that these classes fill up notoriously fast, but I'm in an area of the country with a short outdoor riding season. It sounds like you got some of you $250 value if you were able to attend the classroom sessions. Can you suggest paying a reduced fee to do the riding portion only since, if I understand correctly, you will have completed the classroom time? The place I did my MST broke classes into two (independently scheduled) sections like that. I think your grounds for a charge back are pretty thin given that they did deliver on their part of the bargain and you were the one unable to attend the course date you agreed to.
posted by Yoshimi Battles at 1:02 PM on February 5, 2011
Sorry, I missed the bit about having tried for earlier afternoon classes.
Refund hopes aside, your frustration is completely understandable.
posted by jon1270 at 1:10 PM on February 5, 2011
Refund hopes aside, your frustration is completely understandable.
posted by jon1270 at 1:10 PM on February 5, 2011
Response by poster: Is there some reason why you can't claim one of those open spots in advance?
They simply won't, their policy of "no course changes." Also, even if there are open spots, there are usually enough standbys that take those spots, or more. Then you are at the mercy of the lottery.
I'm honestly not really concerned about the money, I just want to ride. I know I'm acting bitter. But it's difficult when the instructors have sympathy and even they were like "I wanted them to have a class just for standbys, there are that many but the owner refused."
Probably a more reasonable request (which I will do if I cannot get into standby this month), will be me asking if there is a reduced rate to sign up for the course again. I'd pay $100 for my mistake, but another $250 feels like a slap to my face.
posted by xtine at 1:14 PM on February 5, 2011
They simply won't, their policy of "no course changes." Also, even if there are open spots, there are usually enough standbys that take those spots, or more. Then you are at the mercy of the lottery.
I'm honestly not really concerned about the money, I just want to ride. I know I'm acting bitter. But it's difficult when the instructors have sympathy and even they were like "I wanted them to have a class just for standbys, there are that many but the owner refused."
Probably a more reasonable request (which I will do if I cannot get into standby this month), will be me asking if there is a reduced rate to sign up for the course again. I'd pay $100 for my mistake, but another $250 feels like a slap to my face.
posted by xtine at 1:14 PM on February 5, 2011
Seems like you have an argument for an extension because you went by their first-come, first-served policy for standby folks and people there changed it, did the lottery.
Saying (not quite so bluntly) to the person, "We wouldn't be having this conversation if the instructors followed the stated policy about standby students," would be making a reasonable point.
posted by ambient2 at 1:18 PM on February 5, 2011
Saying (not quite so bluntly) to the person, "We wouldn't be having this conversation if the instructors followed the stated policy about standby students," would be making a reasonable point.
posted by ambient2 at 1:18 PM on February 5, 2011
This doesn't answer your question, so I'll understand if it's flagged, but I had a thought: would it be worth it to you to offer one of the other standbys, say, $20 if they'd give up their (potential) spot in the class to guarantee a spot for you? For example, let's say there are 2 open spots, but 4 standbys (including you). You offer 2 of them $20 each to try for another class. They leave; there are only 2 standbys left (for 2 spots); you get in to your class. I realize there are a lot of variables here, but maybe it's worth a shot? You've probably talked to a lot of other standbys while you were waiting for the lottery; are many of them in a predicament like yours, or did many seem to have some flexibility?
To answer your actual question, though: yeah, it seems like a strict policy, but you knew about it in advance. It sounds like it was your fault that you couldn't go to the actual class you signed up for. I would not consider it ethical to get this money back via chargeback, however, it may be legal to do so.
posted by pecanpies at 1:23 PM on February 5, 2011
To answer your actual question, though: yeah, it seems like a strict policy, but you knew about it in advance. It sounds like it was your fault that you couldn't go to the actual class you signed up for. I would not consider it ethical to get this money back via chargeback, however, it may be legal to do so.
posted by pecanpies at 1:23 PM on February 5, 2011
Response by poster: I realize I was a bit extreme in thinking about a charge-back, so I won't resort to that.
If it ends up that I eat the cost, that's what I'll do. I still have next week to try, and if I don't get in, I'll just try to see what my options are then. But in speaking with other stand-bys, many of them were in the same predicament that I was in.
I was wrong, I know. But it sucks to see that other academies have more reasonable policies regarding course changes, but you know what they say about hindsight, etc. From my perspective it just seems that they want to make as much money as possible, and the courses do fill up fast so they have the power in that regard. But how they run their business is their own choosing, and I just have to be more careful next time.
Thanks for the responses everyone.
posted by xtine at 1:37 PM on February 5, 2011
If it ends up that I eat the cost, that's what I'll do. I still have next week to try, and if I don't get in, I'll just try to see what my options are then. But in speaking with other stand-bys, many of them were in the same predicament that I was in.
I was wrong, I know. But it sucks to see that other academies have more reasonable policies regarding course changes, but you know what they say about hindsight, etc. From my perspective it just seems that they want to make as much money as possible, and the courses do fill up fast so they have the power in that regard. But how they run their business is their own choosing, and I just have to be more careful next time.
Thanks for the responses everyone.
posted by xtine at 1:37 PM on February 5, 2011
I would focus on getting them to extend the 90 days if you can't get in, most probably by chatting up one or two of the instructors as hal_c_on suggests.
Then write a bad review on Yelp and call it a day. Yeah you screwed up, but they are being phenomenal jerks about this, and future customers should be warned. When your business has a schedule change policy that makes the airlines look downright saintly, you're being an ass.
Really, I'm amazed at the number of days you've already blown on this. Spending entire days there for weeks in a row? Just not worth your time...
posted by zachlipton at 5:44 PM on February 5, 2011
Then write a bad review on Yelp and call it a day. Yeah you screwed up, but they are being phenomenal jerks about this, and future customers should be warned. When your business has a schedule change policy that makes the airlines look downright saintly, you're being an ass.
Really, I'm amazed at the number of days you've already blown on this. Spending entire days there for weeks in a row? Just not worth your time...
posted by zachlipton at 5:44 PM on February 5, 2011
Response by poster: Ended up that I got in standby the last weekend I was available to. Fate was smiling upon me, and everybody ended up happy. Hurrah, lesson learned, etc.
posted by xtine at 10:36 PM on February 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by xtine at 10:36 PM on February 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
They cannot control for people who don't check dates when they sign up, and they cannot control for people who choose to not try all the available standby dates. All in all I would say they are being perfectly reasonable. In my opinion, a chargeback would be a dick move and I would not do it myself. You might.
posted by Sternmeyer at 12:53 PM on February 5, 2011